Author Topic: Slightly late/Early MOTW - Black Watch  (Read 8761 times)

marauder648

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Slightly late/Early MOTW - Black Watch
« on: 09 May 2018, 06:37:42 »
Black Watch – Hark hark the Star League Mark 2 is calling!

Background

In the late 3050s and early 3060s there was a worrying new feeling in the Inner Sphere.  Optimism!  The Second Star League had been formed to fight the Clans and defend the Inner Sphere from their onslaught and Houses who had long been bitter and bloody enemies were now turning their swords from one another to their real and mutual enemy.  The militaries of the Houses were rebuilding, re-arming and technology long since forgotten was spreading across the Inner Sphere, sparking a veritable renaissance for the Houses and their civilians.  The promise of a Second Star League that could maybe bring back the ‘good old days’ of the original seemed very bright indeed.

Part of this also saw the reactivation of the Royal Black Watch, the traditional guardians of the First Lord as well as a desire to create a Mech that would defend the Star League against the Clans with contributions from most of the Houses going into its construction.  It was an obvious choice to name this mech the Black Watch.

A joint effort between Cosara Weaponries and the Northwind Highlanders (who would form the Black Watch) was also designed in part by Combine and Davion teams whilst Cosara would finally give the Highlanders their own Mech factory like those enjoyed by the Wolfs Dragoons and Kell Hounds.

Design

The Kuritan part of the design team voiced their admiration of Assault Mech’s (and we can only imagine any Lyrans nearby might have nodded at that) and suggested they base the design on an already existent one, in this case the 85-ton Crockett/Katana and this was happily accepted by all involved as the Crockett was easy to repair and had a good history of service and thus served as the basis.

And they REALLY did copy the Crockett design for the Black Watch.  With the same engine a 225-rated standard powering it the Black Watch isn’t speedy, and will quite happily lumber along at 56kph, whilst a trio of jump jets will let it leap up to 90 meters at a time.  The engine and jump jets are supported by an endo-steel skeleton to save some weight the 15-tons of standard armour are well laid out and give the mech solid if not full protection across its frame. 
Fortunately, the design does also feature double heatsinks, but only the 10 built into its hull.

So, slow, sturdy and well armoured, gotta have a lot of guns right….right?

Variants

BKW-7R – Nope! This things not actually got many guns.  The standard engine eats up a lot of weight and then the designers put a trio of heavy weapons on it instead of opting for a more diverse weapons load, but the weapons load is still quite diverse and really shows off its joint production nature.  From the Free Worlds League, we get the Mech’s main punch with a Light Gauss rifle living in the left arm and an Ultra-10 in the right.  The Gauss has a single ton of ammo whilst the Ultra has 2-tons of ammo for adequate but not great endurance. 
For mid to short range a HUGE MRM-40 donated by House Kurita lives in the left torso and this too draws from a 2-ton ammo bin, but here’s the worrying part.  All that explodium is stored together in the CASE protected right torso.  And as there’s NO other crits to pad it out, the ONLY thing you can hit if you penetrate the right torso is 4-tons of explosive ammunition and some inert gauss slugs.  Losing the right torso basically kills the Mech as it has NO other weapons.  Also, from the Combine a C3 slave system is safely mounted in the head as part of its electronic wizardry but that rounds out the 7R’s war load.  You’ll only start overheating if you jump and do a full alpha, otherwise you can’t overheat at all, so at least it runs cool, but that 4-ton ammo bomb is a terrifying flaw.

BKW-9R – Coming out many years later during the Jihad the 9R is a bit more rounded a combatant and might seem a tad boring because of it.  One big change though is the armour’s increased to 16.5 tons of armour, with a greater emphasis on forwards protection than rear as well as carrying the maximum its frame can support.  This Mech isn’t really designed to operate as part of a ‘lets hold lands and be friends’ Lance of SLDF Mk2 Mechs, but instead it’s a bruiser and its weapons and armour layout show that.  The original weapons load is gone but is kind of replicated.  The light gauss is stripped out and replaced with a standard gauss, but somewhat worryingly, its only got 1 ton of ammo.  The Ultra’s gone too and replaced with a heavy PPC for long to mid ranged power punches that mesh well with the punch of the gauss.  The MRM’s been replaced with a pair of more flexible MML-7 launchers, each with two tons of ammo.  Which is all safely stored together in the same torso (the Left) WITH NO CASE!?  Oh, and there’s a TAG there too in the head in place of the C3 slave.  So, this takes the issue with the ammo bomb on the 7R and looks at it dismissively before simply saying “Weak.” Oh! And there’s two extra heat sinks, meaning this thing still runs cool.

Thoughts and using one

An interesting If somewhat unfocused design that the 9R kind of fixes the 7R can do adequately at its job but its firepower is disjointed.  The range brackets don’t work as the Ultra’s got a longer range than the MRMs and the Light gauss has a HUGE range over anything that’s not an AC-2 or artillery.  This means you can’t really sit at a specific range where all your weapons just work.  The MRM’s short-range bracket is a measly 3 hexes meaning you’re at medium range (it does what it says on the can I guess?) for the rockets and ultra, but you’ve got that nasty +1 penalty to hit with the MRM’s.  So do you get in close or what..and then getting in close is a challenge because this thing is slow. 

The 9R is far more sensible but also far more lethal to its pilot.  The gauss rifle and heavy PPC work well together and can rip great bloody gouges in a target which you can fill with MML explosive goodness.  And then Mr Murphy and Sod of law come along, doft their caps and smile before you get a crit in the left torso.  At which point there’s an earth shatteringly loud explosion and no Black Watch 9R left save some smoking debris and its foot actuators.  Clearly built for the brutal fighting of the Jihad, the 9R is a good way to do damage and get pilots killed at the same time. 

Of the two, the 9R is the better of the two designs, its more conventional, its weapons work better together and have more useful range brackets, but that torso bomb is just asking to be hit.  And if you’re fighting a Black Watch, go for the left torso, you’ll kill the 7R with one crit even if the Mech survives as it will only be able to kick and punch you and you’ll just reduce a 9R to a debris field.

I really wish I could say much more but there’s not much to say, as a Mech its perfectly fine, its not great, and it has a huge glaring weak spot you want to hit for maximum damage. 



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhih9Pxkqpo  - March of the 1st Royal Scots aka The Black Watch.

https://imgur.com/gallery/6lVuX0J - Colourized footage of a Black Watch 9R taking part in fighting on Tharkad.


as always, thoughts, comments etc are most welcome!
« Last Edit: 10 May 2018, 14:33:10 by marauder648 »
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packhntr

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Re: Slightly late/Early MOTW - Black Watch
« Reply #1 on: 09 May 2018, 10:48:50 »
Nice write up!  I have to agree, a decent mech, but nothing spectacular.  The weapon loadouts are far to ammunition dependent and having the entire side torso as basically a bomb is not well thought out.  The 9R is an improvement, however, the lack of sufficient ammo for the Gauss is not acceptable and again the side torso is still a bomb, but now without the CASE protection.  Needs fixing.
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Re: Slightly late/Early MOTW - Black Watch
« Reply #2 on: 09 May 2018, 11:06:23 »
The only time I've seen one of these fielded was at Another GarageCon in Plano TX back in 2010 or some such.  It was part of the scenario forces.  I was riding an Albatross, ML-boat Hammer, and an Initiate (I ended up on the WoB team.)  We were supposed to delay the Combine/Nova Cats and Ghost Bears from killing us and our dropships.  I decided the best defense was a stout offense and my three 'mechs charged, blunted and then broke a lance that had the Black Watch, Timber Wolf, and a couple others, and then rolled into the next lance.  I didn't realize my hammer had that many lasers until he'd lost a leg to a freak hit; after that he propped up and unloaded on anything near him, which was the Black Watch that lumbered over to kick it.  My albatross came up and ended up kicking the Watch's leg off, but it took a while to finally kill it.  I do believe I critted the torso early in that fight so the MRM-40 never really came into play other than a few early misses.

Wild game and my main take away was, "glad that MRM-40 missed repeatedly, and man, that Black Watch is tough to kill!"

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Re: Slightly late/Early MOTW - Black Watch
« Reply #3 on: 09 May 2018, 11:45:05 »
I was bit disappointed when i originally read the TRO Entry for the Blackwatch.  It seemed to be obvious they wanted this thing to glaring flaws.
Why heck you won't have a Case in ammo depended design is beyond me.  They were sourcing components from around the Sphere, they could done that.  Also it's ammo dependent, not a lot of it at that. This thing was on a campaign setting where ammo was tracked and needed to be resupplied, it would been in deep trouble.

Where does the 9R come from? Is it a refit? Does the factory on Northwind still functional?
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Empyrus

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Re: Slightly late/Early MOTW - Black Watch
« Reply #4 on: 09 May 2018, 12:22:39 »
I like all the weapons the first variant has. But not here. Just three ammo-dependent weapons? Three weapons with poorly matching range bands?
Yeah no.

The refit/variant's no better really. A Gauss Rifle with single ton of ammo is just criminal. Why not just another HPPC?
And i'm not a fan of MMLs, being oversized SRM launchers that can fire LRMs, so they don't impress me either. And removing CASE? Really?

Bleh.

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Re: Slightly late/Early MOTW - Black Watch
« Reply #5 on: 09 May 2018, 15:44:09 »
I've never personally used a Black Watch, but I've played multiple games where it was on one or the other side.

Every time it's been a huge disappointment.  If it tries to get close, it tends to go down so fast you'd think it was on shore leave in Canopus.  If it stays back and tries to snipe, it doesn't have the punch to justify using a mech of its size and speed.

With a huge torso bomb and a poorly-integrated weapon loadout, it feels a bit like someone intentionally sabotaged this mech while it was being designed.
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Re: Slightly late/Early MOTW - Black Watch
« Reply #6 on: 09 May 2018, 16:37:34 »
Of course they wanted it to fail, neither House would want the SLDF to have superior equipment again . . . good enough, sure.  Royals vs House level circa 2700?  No.

Based on the Crockett . . . sure, its 3/5/3 with a SFE at 85t.  But what else is similiar?  Sure its barrel chested, but the Black Watch is way more humanoid- look at the legs.  The arms are not weapons pods like the Penetrator or Marauder.  And it certainly did not follow the weapons layout or its symmetry in the weapons load.  IMO it would have been fine with the LGR OR UAC/10 as the main gun.  The LGR makes more sense for something so slow designed for the SLDF to face the Clans . . . which is why the MRM makes no sense for something that slow, short ranged and a penalty to hit.  Its not like it will be chasing down armor- two of the OZ Clans did not use it and it rarely deployed frontline- or attacking fortified Clan positions . . . never mind ammo problems since who outside the DC was building MRM munitions?  They would have been better off with a LRM15 rack as inefficient as that size is for the IS.  As it is, if the pilot survives the torso bomb they definitely have a clue to leave the battlefield.

THe -9R is a bit better . . . but does something this slow need TAG?  The ton would have been better spent giving another ton of Gauss ammo.  Strip off half a ton of armor and give it CASE!!  The designer who erased that off the plans must have been a Drac.

Rarely seen the -7R, once in MM the -9R.
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Re: Slightly late/Early MOTW - Black Watch
« Reply #7 on: 09 May 2018, 16:47:25 »
Aesthetic comment: That skirt is way too short! I can see your waist and hip connectors.
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Re: Slightly late/Early MOTW - Black Watch
« Reply #8 on: 09 May 2018, 17:35:35 »
That's a kilt. So if you can see its 'Mech-sack hanging out a little, that's how it's supposed to work, at least going by every dude in real life I've ever seen wearing one.


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marauder648

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Re: Slightly late/Early MOTW - Black Watch
« Reply #9 on: 09 May 2018, 20:03:39 »
*hums 'What's under the Black Watch's kilt?'*
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Re: Slightly late/Early MOTW - Black Watch
« Reply #10 on: 09 May 2018, 20:07:33 »
A giant bomb.
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Re: Slightly late/Early MOTW - Black Watch
« Reply #11 on: 09 May 2018, 20:44:38 »
I've never used one or seen one used and I remember finding the Black Watch distinctly underwhelming when I first saw it in TRO: 3060.  Hell, it doesn't even look good.

However - the 7R does have a C3 slave and both LGRs and MRMs can do interesting things when provided with good targeting data.  I think you'll find the badly matched ranged brackets a lot less of a problem if you can stand a linked spotter within three hexes of your target.
« Last Edit: 16 May 2018, 17:12:40 by Getz »

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Empyrus

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Re: Slightly late/Early MOTW - Black Watch
« Reply #12 on: 09 May 2018, 20:53:01 »
Oh, it ain't unusable. Or necessarily even bad, used properly (of course, this applies to many, many designs).

But it feels cobbled together, awkward. It doesn't give me that "i'd like to try this" feel.

And, the Black Watch should've gotten something truly good. Yeah, it could use tech from multiple houses, why not. But it should have bee done smartly, make it one of the better Inner Sphere designs, offset by its rarity.

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Re: Slightly late/Early MOTW - Black Watch
« Reply #13 on: 09 May 2018, 22:20:07 »
It's rather forgetful, the only thing that really makes it disappointing is that it's made by the same company that makes Highlanders.     
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Re: Slightly late/Early MOTW - Black Watch
« Reply #14 on: 09 May 2018, 23:45:12 »
You are forgetting Crabs back in the day.
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Re: Slightly late/Early MOTW - Black Watch
« Reply #15 on: 10 May 2018, 01:32:09 »
comparing it to a Star League Classic is a bit unfair.. that they built highlanders to a proven and pre-existing Star League blueprint created by Hollis Incorporated isn't much of a statement about the competency of Cosara Weaponries own design staff.

given their other big in-house design will be the Targe.. which is another design by committee that ends up up pretty flawed.. i suspect that they should have stuck to just building to existing Star League blueprints..

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Re: Slightly late/Early MOTW - Black Watch
« Reply #16 on: 10 May 2018, 03:44:00 »
Steiner - Assault Mech, it has to be a proper Mech

Kurita - I'm really, really, really into MRMs right now

Marik - Same here, except I mean Light Gauss

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et voila... le Black Watch

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Re: Slightly late/Early MOTW - Black Watch
« Reply #17 on: 10 May 2018, 04:43:38 »
Only 3 weapons on the 7R and I'm not terribly excited about any of them, but it's that massive MRM rack that spins my brain.  I feel like the Balance Fairy was unkind to MRMs. Almost every other weapon in the game divides the range bands into thirds.  Snubbies have that lovely 270 meter wide short range band with each successive band getting smaller and smaller.  But MRM's get that backwards.  Almost half of the weapon's envelope is in the long range band.   Add the +1 To Hit?  Not a system I would be excited about taking into battle.  It does become a bit more interesting with a C3 spotter though.

But at the end of the day, there's something about this road apple...  I want to like it for some reason.  Kinda like the 3025 Banshee.
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Re: Slightly late/Early MOTW - Black Watch
« Reply #18 on: 10 May 2018, 06:28:03 »
That's a kilt. So if you can see its 'Mech-sack hanging out a little, that's how it's supposed to work, at least going by every dude in real life I've ever seen wearing one.

A real kilt is supposed to touch the top of the knees - that's not a kilt - that's a wee plaid pair of shorts...
« Last Edit: 10 May 2018, 10:18:04 by phoenixalpha »

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Re: Slightly late/Early MOTW - Black Watch
« Reply #19 on: 10 May 2018, 09:19:46 »
My feeling is that the Black Watch should have gotten the Protected Actuators quirk. Not because of joint design, but because to do an anti mech attack, infantry have to get right there and look up...
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Re: Slightly late/Early MOTW - Black Watch
« Reply #20 on: 10 May 2018, 13:40:58 »
Wouldn't that be 'distracting'? :))
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Re: Slightly late/Early MOTW - Black Watch
« Reply #21 on: 10 May 2018, 15:39:37 »
I ran the 9R as part of the villain command lance. it's fun. and then it runs out of gauss ammo... and then it explodes. but it was fun

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marauder648

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Re: Slightly late/Early MOTW - Black Watch
« Reply #22 on: 10 May 2018, 15:57:21 »
I ran the 9R as part of the villain command lance. it's fun. and then it runs out of gauss ammo... and then it explodes. but it was fun

I suppose that sequence of events makes sense as it was a villain?
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Re: Slightly late/Early MOTW - Black Watch
« Reply #23 on: 10 May 2018, 17:26:17 »
comparing it to a Star League Classic is a bit unfair.. that they built highlanders to a proven and pre-existing Star League blueprint created by Hollis Incorporated isn't much of a statement about the competency of Cosara Weaponries own design staff.

given their other big in-house design will be the Targe.. which is another design by committee that ends up up pretty flawed.. i suspect that they should have stuck to just building to existing Star League blueprints..

Cosara also build the Crab and King Crab, both of which are stone-cold killers for their respective era and weight classes, but admittedly both those designs date to the star league...

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Re: Slightly late/Early MOTW - Black Watch
« Reply #24 on: 10 May 2018, 17:32:03 »
I suppose that sequence of events makes sense as it was a villain?
The fun of Battletech means that it could be a fun sequence of events for whomever is involved. Even a hero.

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Re: Slightly late/Early MOTW - Black Watch
« Reply #25 on: 10 May 2018, 18:39:17 »
I suppose that sequence of events makes sense as it was a villain?

Amusingly the ammo explosion was due to a lucky shot in the back during an ammo dump predicated by both launchers getting critted

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Re: Slightly late/Early MOTW - Black Watch
« Reply #26 on: 10 May 2018, 19:14:25 »
Amusingly the ammo explosion was due to a lucky shot in the back during an ammo dump predicated by both launchers getting critted


Sounds like some Weirdo levels of irony there...  ;D

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Re: Slightly late/Early MOTW - Black Watch
« Reply #27 on: 15 May 2018, 22:02:18 »
Ran the 7R a few times, mostly in individual duels. Cannot take credit for winning duels with it, since so much relied on the opponent's bad dice rolls. Being part of a C3 lance would help, but still would not make it worthwhile. It always seemed like an NPC mech, and the comments from other players seem to reinforce that.

All that explodium is stored together in the CASE protected right torso.  And as there’s NO other crits to pad it out, the ONLY thing you can hit if you penetrate the right torso is 4-tons of explosive ammunition and some inert gauss slugs.  Losing the right torso basically kills the Mech as it has NO other weapons.

And if it still has jump jets and a Highlander pilot, then it's DFA o'clock.

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Re: Slightly late/Early MOTW - Black Watch
« Reply #28 on: 16 May 2018, 15:21:18 »
I wonder if the Black Watch would be designed by the IlClan when they get in the hot seat. Well if they do anyways.
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Re: Slightly late/Early MOTW - Black Watch
« Reply #29 on: 16 May 2018, 15:30:03 »
Ran the 7R a few times, mostly in individual duels. Cannot take credit for winning duels with it, since so much relied on the opponent's bad dice rolls. Being part of a C3 lance would help, but still would not make it worthwhile. It always seemed like an NPC mech, and the comments from other players seem to reinforce that.

And if it still has jump jets and a Highlander pilot, then it's DFA o'clock.
`


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Re: Slightly late/Early MOTW - Black Watch
« Reply #30 on: 17 May 2018, 22:50:50 »
the lyrans dictated the weightclass, the mariks provided the main guns, the kurita added support missiles, and the liao.....


the liao laid out how to make it all work while they poached the good engineers for themselves.

i honestly like this 'mech, it works alright as part of a C3 lance- but man, i'd have a hard time making the loadout worse i admit.
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Re: Slightly late/Early MOTW - Black Watch
« Reply #31 on: 18 May 2018, 10:50:58 »
For what was available then . . . for 3145?  Make it a Rifleman clone with HVACs.
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Re: Slightly late/Early MOTW - Black Watch
« Reply #32 on: 19 May 2018, 16:28:21 »
For what was available then . . . for 3145?  Make it a Rifleman clone with HVACs.
the BKW-7R  was 3061, and the BKW-9R showed up in 3070.


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Re: Slightly late/Early MOTW - Black Watch
« Reply #33 on: 19 May 2018, 17:16:04 »
For what was available then . . . for 3145?  Make it a Rifleman clone with HVACs.

HVACs are one way you could make this mech worse.
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Re: Slightly late/Early MOTW - Black Watch
« Reply #34 on: 19 May 2018, 18:57:56 »
So an appropriate Dark Age variant would have an HVAC10, Bombast Laser, and maybe an ELRM20?

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Re: Slightly late/Early MOTW - Black Watch
« Reply #35 on: 19 May 2018, 22:17:26 »
"But it could hide in its own smoke!"
-my only defense for HVACs

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Re: Slightly late/Early MOTW - Black Watch
« Reply #36 on: 21 May 2018, 09:29:57 »
I don't often agree with people who talk about bracket firing, but the Black Watch is one place where I think it really would work well. Replacing the Ultra AC/10 with two Plasma Rifles and ammo keeps the machine in the same range bands as the MRM missile launcher.
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Re: Slightly late/Early MOTW - Black Watch
« Reply #37 on: 22 May 2018, 11:53:39 »
the BKW-7R  was 3061, and the BKW-9R showed up in 3070.

I knopw, I was saying the only way I knew to make it worse required 3145 weapon.
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Re: Slightly late/Early MOTW - Black Watch
« Reply #38 on: 31 May 2018, 21:00:48 »
So an appropriate Dark Age variant would have an HVAC10, Bombast Laser, and maybe an ELRM20?

An appropriate Dark Age variant would have a RAC/5 or keep the UAC/10 in the first place, give the Heavy PPC a Capacitor, and a Streak LRM-20.

I see a decent amount of mentioning the mismatching range bands, but that... doesn't actually seem to be the case here?  Generally when I think "mismatched range bands" I think "overlapping minimum range" or "MLs/SRMs matched with LRMs" where you're punished for entering one group's optimum range by leaving the other's.

Here your objective is to get to exactly 3 hexes range, and then make the guy in front of you wish he'd picked a better place to be that day.  At that point your MRM is at best range, your Light Gauss is one hex inside minimum (coincidentally matching the MRM's modifier), and your UAC/10 is well within optimum range.  That, or you waddle up to about 15 hexes and get a C3 spotter up there to make things more interesting.

The weapons may not all match ranges like an elegantly tuned machine, but they shit out horrific amounts of damage (seriously, it's a 60+ damage heat-neutral alpha strike) and getting them to play nice with each other is not particularly difficult.
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Re: Slightly late/Early MOTW - Black Watch
« Reply #39 on: 01 June 2018, 06:42:33 »
If Ilclan is related or thinks it a descent or successor to the old Star League, then it should have Black Watch IIC for ironic touch.
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Re: Slightly late/Early MOTW - Black Watch
« Reply #40 on: 01 June 2018, 08:31:47 »
If Ilclan is related or thinks it a descent or successor to the old Star League, then it should have Black Watch IIC for ironic touch.
That could actually work. ATMs or Streak LRMs, Gauss and UAC/10 to keep the flavor of the original?