Author Topic: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise  (Read 203133 times)

Sabelkatten

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6952
Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #420 on: 05 February 2019, 09:16:05 »
Don't worry, they drop the spent reactor fuel on the other side of the bay (actual statement by Russian sailor, thought it was about a harbor bay where they were not actually supposed to swim).

Wrangler

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 24875
  • Dang it!
    • Battletech Fanon Wiki
Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #421 on: 05 February 2019, 19:55:44 »
Where the Russian Cruisers go when they retire. The Murmansk.




"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants
-Editor on Battletech Fanon Wiki

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 37046
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #422 on: 05 February 2019, 20:11:41 »
That's a sad fate for a ship, even if it is Russian...

Wrangler

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 24875
  • Dang it!
    • Battletech Fanon Wiki
Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #423 on: 05 February 2019, 20:16:28 »
If this picture is to believed, but apparently this was part of that very same ship or one by the same name.  I don't know if it's fake, its alleged to have been found in an abandoned Russian base.

« Last Edit: 05 February 2019, 21:23:28 by Wrangler »
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants
-Editor on Battletech Fanon Wiki

CrossfirePilot

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2249
Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #424 on: 05 February 2019, 20:20:47 »
If this picture is to be, but apparently this was part of that very same ship or one by the same name.  I don't know if it's fake, its alleged to have been found in an abandoned Russian base.



That's what happens when you try the Philadelphia experiment in the North Sea.

glitterboy2098

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11991
    • The Temple Grounds - My Roleplaying and History website
Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #425 on: 05 February 2019, 23:29:23 »
reverse image search just returns the same claim of it being a russian ship 'embedded' in a mountain with claims of weird science. mostly just pinterest posts referencing the abovetopsecret.com forum where said claim was made.


even though it is clear that it is not embedded at all, but rather just hung. making it most likely to be a monument or art installation.

edit: found it. it is a Liinakhamari Landing Memorial, dedicated to the seamen and naval infantry of the North Fleet who died in WW2.

http://www.osieturner.com/2018/05/the-battleship-in-mountain-real-or-fake.html
https://www.tracesofwar.com/sights/26151/Memorial-Soviet-Seamen-Liinakhamari.htm

the site is in the Murmansk oblast but is actually several hours from Murmansk itself.
« Last Edit: 05 February 2019, 23:37:41 by glitterboy2098 »

ANS Kamas P81

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13208
Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #426 on: 06 February 2019, 00:23:49 »
I wonder what ship they used for that bow.  It doesn't match any of the amphibious assault ships listed on Wikipedia, maybe it was from a troop transport or cargo ship?
Der Hölle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen,
Tod und Verzweiflung flammet um mich her!
Fühlt nicht durch dich Jadefalke Todesschmerzen,
So bist du meine Tochter nimmermehr!

Nightlord01

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1559
Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #427 on: 06 February 2019, 04:32:47 »
I wonder what ship they used for that bow.  It doesn't match any of the amphibious assault ships listed on Wikipedia, maybe it was from a troop transport or cargo ship?

They certainly weren't gentle about removing the bow, I'm guessing it was done at a breaker, that bulging fair lead over the bow indicates to me that it'd the bow of a cable layer...

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 37046
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #428 on: 06 February 2019, 04:46:19 »
Not necessarily... the Soviets used to do their UNREPs bow to stern.

marauder648

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8157
    • Project Zhukov Fan AU TRO's and PDFs
Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #429 on: 06 February 2019, 04:54:44 »


Ghost Bears: Cute and cuddly. Until you remember its a BLOODY BEAR!

Project Zhukov Fan AU TRO's and PDFs - https://thezhukovau.wordpress.com/

Feenix74

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 3026
  • Lam's Phoenix Hawks
Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #430 on: 06 February 2019, 06:04:33 »
For those who have a decent internet connection.

I stumbled onto these two part video by RT Documentary on the Russian Northern Fleet submarine force "Beast Division"

https://youtu.be/7L8pKSfJc88

https://youtu.be/Dtq7cTBzsqk

An interesting look at the insides of Russian SSNs


Incoming fire has the right of way.

The only thing more accurate than incoming enemy fire is incoming friendly fire.

Always remember that your weapon was built by the lowest bidder.


                                   - excepts from Murphy's Laws of Combat

Wrangler

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 24875
  • Dang it!
    • Battletech Fanon Wiki
Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #431 on: 06 February 2019, 07:22:31 »
The Sea Shadow before she was scrapped, while in state of...mothballs?
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants
-Editor on Battletech Fanon Wiki

grimlock1

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2087
Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #432 on: 06 February 2019, 09:27:03 »
The Sea Shadow before she was scrapped, while in state of...mothballs?

Ben Rich's book has an interesting chapter relating to the Sea Shadow, and dealing with the Navy.
I'm rarely right... Except when I am.  ---  Idle question.  What is the BV2 of dread?
Apollo's Law- if it needs Clan tech to make it useable, It doesn't deserve those resources in the first place.
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.

marauder648

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 8157
    • Project Zhukov Fan AU TRO's and PDFs
Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #433 on: 06 February 2019, 09:46:07 »
What books that? And I loved the look of the Sea Shadow, a useful tesbed for sure.
Ghost Bears: Cute and cuddly. Until you remember its a BLOODY BEAR!

Project Zhukov Fan AU TRO's and PDFs - https://thezhukovau.wordpress.com/

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28957
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #434 on: 06 February 2019, 10:07:00 »
huh, whose ship was that?  I thought it was a Pop Mechanics wishlist and appeared in a Bond flick as the bad guy mcguffin.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Kidd

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3535
Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #435 on: 06 February 2019, 10:36:23 »
huh, whose ship was that?  I thought it was a Pop Mechanics wishlist and appeared in a Bond flick as the bad guy mcguffin.
It is an actual ship, US Navy stealth testbed, once hailed as the future of naval ship design

Which is why a lookalike appears in Tomorrow Never Dies*, where it sinks a Royal Navy Type 23 with an honest-to-goodness chainsaw torpedo, because Bond flicks just has to shoehorn in GI Joe ludicrosity alongside the legit cutting edge military tech

*the first ever movie I watched in a cinema, BTW. Exceedingly fond memories.

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28957
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #436 on: 06 February 2019, 10:46:30 »
Yeah, I never knew it actually got fully built . . . or had been scrapped.  But you can definitely see the influences in the LCS.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 25627
  • It's just my goth phase
Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #437 on: 06 February 2019, 12:35:04 »
Which is why a lookalike appears in Tomorrow Never Dies*, where it sinks a Royal Navy Type 23 with an honest-to-goodness chainsaw torpedo, because Bond flicks just has to shoehorn in GI Joe ludicrosity alongside the legit cutting edge military tech

Given the wacky stuff started appearing in Bond in the early 80s, I'd say it was GI Joe that copied Bond-film ludicrosity.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

JadeHellbringer

  • Easily Bribed Forum Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 21696
  • Third time this week!
Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #438 on: 06 February 2019, 12:45:57 »
Given the wacky stuff started appearing in Bond in the early 80s, I'd say it was GI Joe that copied Bond-film ludicrosity.

Pfffffffffft. Moonraker was based on a true story.  ;D
"There's a difference between the soldier and his fight,
But the warrior knows the true meaning of his life."
+Larry and his Flask, 'Blood Drunk'+

"You know, basically war is just, like, a bunch of people playing pranks on each other, but at the end they all die."
+Crow T. Robot+

Euphonium

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1973
  • Look Ma, no Faction!
Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #439 on: 06 February 2019, 14:25:26 »
Pfffffffffft. Moonraker was based on a true story.  ;D

The novel or the movie?
>>>>[You're only jealous because the voices don't talk to you]<<<<

ANS Kamas P81

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13208
Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #440 on: 06 February 2019, 15:45:51 »
Pfffffffffft. Moonraker was based on a true story.  ;D

Also on the topic of Sea Shadow, think of her as the Have Blue of warships - the thing that proved stealth worked for ships, and was (pun intended) a sea change in the way warships were designed.  Look at the design paradigm prior to her development in the late 1970s and construction in 1984, and how things evolved since then.  It also helped with wake reduction and other technologies beyond radar stealth, despite not being the primary purpose.
Der Hölle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen,
Tod und Verzweiflung flammet um mich her!
Fühlt nicht durch dich Jadefalke Todesschmerzen,
So bist du meine Tochter nimmermehr!

glitterboy2098

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 11991
    • The Temple Grounds - My Roleplaying and History website
Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #441 on: 06 February 2019, 16:07:29 »
Also on the topic of Sea Shadow, think of her as the Have Blue of warships - the thing that proved stealth worked for ships, and was (pun intended) a sea change in the way warships were designed.  Look at the design paradigm prior to her development in the late 1970s and construction in 1984, and how things evolved since then.  It also helped with wake reduction and other technologies beyond radar stealth, despite not being the primary purpose.
that was literally what she was. a proof of concept test model like have-blue. only unlike haveblue, it never got picked up for a full production model (due to reasons regarding internal navy attitudes that would run afoul of rule 4) though the principles it pioneered have found their way into most modern ships to various degrees.

as it turned out, Sea Shadow was a bit too stealthy.. it generated a return smaller than that of the noise from the waves on the surface, so a radar set properly would be able to find it as an empty point in the noise.

sadly the reason she got scrapped was because while the navy offered her to museums (for free!) to display, they appended a huge list of restrictions on said display (such as having to be displayed inside the [huge and ugly] barge she was stored in, limited photography, etc) to the point no one was interested, and the scrapping deadline passed.

JadeHellbringer

  • Easily Bribed Forum Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 21696
  • Third time this week!
Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #442 on: 06 February 2019, 16:30:04 »


Monitor HMS Lord Clive and her unusual armament at the surrender of the German High Seas Fleet in late 1918. The  most notable feature is the single 18" gun aft, which is in a fixed-to-starboard mounting (it could be aimed to some extent fore and aft, but the actual gun shield was fixed to starboard). Forward are a pair of 12" guns in the turret, and visible below the bridge are 6" secondary guns.
"There's a difference between the soldier and his fight,
But the warrior knows the true meaning of his life."
+Larry and his Flask, 'Blood Drunk'+

"You know, basically war is just, like, a bunch of people playing pranks on each other, but at the end they all die."
+Crow T. Robot+

Kidd

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3535
Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #443 on: 06 February 2019, 16:38:40 »
that was literally what she was. a proof of concept test model like have-blue. only unlike haveblue, it never got picked up for a full production model (due to reasons regarding internal navy attitudes that would run afoul of rule 4) though the principles it pioneered have found their way into most modern ships to various degrees.

It's doubtful an unarmed, 4-crew, 15-knot ship could contribute much to the Navy, stealth or no.

Wrangler

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 24875
  • Dang it!
    • Battletech Fanon Wiki
Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #444 on: 06 February 2019, 16:52:34 »


Monitor HMS Lord Clive and her unusual armament at the surrender of the German High Seas Fleet in late 1918. The  most notable feature is the single 18" gun aft, which is in a fixed-to-starboard mounting (it could be aimed to some extent fore and aft, but the actual gun shield was fixed to starboard). Forward are a pair of 12" guns in the turret, and visible below the bridge are 6" secondary guns.

I wonder how much a displacement this thing would get when they fired that 18incher, the Iowas fired broadsides and physically moved the ship sideways little bit. 
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants
-Editor on Battletech Fanon Wiki

Nightlord01

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1559
Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #445 on: 06 February 2019, 18:09:49 »
as it turned out, Sea Shadow was a bit too stealthy.. it generated a return smaller than that of the noise from the waves on the surface, so a radar set properly would be able to find it as an empty point in the noise.
adline passed.

Ever worked on a radar console? I worked on one for more than 10 years, and I can tell you there's no way this can happen. If Sea Shadow was scrapped and this was the noted reason, they didn't want to tell you the real reasons.

It's doubtful an unarmed, 4-crew, 15-knot ship could contribute much to the Navy, stealth or no.

This, Sea Shadow was purely R&D, I'm going to guess that she didn't have a lot of space and weight capacity for weaponry, and was too slow for anything the USN really wanted her for. Not to mention that she was likely quite observable on sonar, which is much harder to hide from than radar.

ANS Kamas P81

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13208
Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #446 on: 06 February 2019, 19:28:04 »
I'd also suggest that with her superstructure shape means she's going to dig that bow into a serious wave pretty damn hard.  Buoyancy will try to push it upwards, while the shape going through the water is going to push it down, and I can't imagine something slapped together as a rough prototype is built for that kind of impact and stress.  She'd turn into a stealth submarine pretty quick, I fear.
Der Hölle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen,
Tod und Verzweiflung flammet um mich her!
Fühlt nicht durch dich Jadefalke Todesschmerzen,
So bist du meine Tochter nimmermehr!

DaveMac

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1216
  • Running for home...
Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #447 on: 07 February 2019, 03:16:05 »
I wonder how much a displacement this thing would get when they fired that 18incher, the Iowas fired broadsides and physically moved the ship sideways little bit.

These were the largest guns ever fitted to a warship with the exception of the 46 cm (18.1") guns for the Japanese Yamato class battleships. Only one was actually installed on HMS Furious and gun trials with it showed that the lightly-built ship could not handle the overpressures generated.  The gun was removed and Furious was converted to an aircraft carrier. The thrre guns produced  were then to be used in coastal defense batteries but instead they were put on monitors in fixed mountings. Two of these monitors saw service during World War I and one of these, HMS General Wolfe, engaged a railroad bridge at Snaeskerke, four miles (6.5 km) south of Ostende, Belgium, on 28th September 1918 at a range of 36,000 yards (32,920 m), the longest range at which a Royal Navy vessel has ever fired upon an enemy. General Wolfe fired a total of 81 rounds against enemy targets while Lord Clive fired an additional four rounds. The war ended before the third monitor, Prince Eugen, could be converted.

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNBR_18-40_mk1.php
Go to red alert!
Are you sure sir?  It does mean changing the lightbulb.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 25627
  • It's just my goth phase
Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #448 on: 07 February 2019, 04:08:33 »
How would they even coordinate an attack at that range then?  Did they just make plans to have the gun start firing at a designated time?  It seems like it would be hard to figure out if the gun were wildly off course.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

ANS Kamas P81

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13208
Re: Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise
« Reply #449 on: 07 February 2019, 04:30:52 »
You only need one dude nearby with a radio (preferably in a plane) for correction of fire.  And being a railroad bridge, its range and direction are going to be pretty fixed as well as being quite large, so it won't be hard to hit.  Or considering 18" HE shells, hard to near-miss...

According to navweaps, shell weight for the 18"/40 was 3300 pounds, though they don't have a figure on how much HE filler there was.  Japanese 46cm HE shells used a 136 pound bursting charge, while the smaller American 16" guns was about 153 pounds.  I'd expect an "in between" figure of 145 pounds of HE filler being acceptable, for shore bombardment.  By comparison, a modern Mk 82 carries 192 pounds of (more advanced) filler, so you'd have a blast perhaps 2/3 the strength of a single 500 pounder - but that blast is pushing over a ton and a half of steel fragments from the shell itself.  #rekt
Der Hölle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen,
Tod und Verzweiflung flammet um mich her!
Fühlt nicht durch dich Jadefalke Todesschmerzen,
So bist du meine Tochter nimmermehr!