Author Topic: What's next to come; Mech?  (Read 7964 times)

Khan Jade Wolf

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What's next to come; Mech?
« on: 13 April 2014, 21:35:42 »
I find myself reflecting on the past and how, submarines powered by the Mighty atom. Si-Fi writer; Jules Gabriel Verne, wrote about one in the book 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea. He also wrote about man landing on the Moon, and other things that today we see as sience fact no fiction!

Even Star Trek, was inspiring for some people. The creator of the flip phone was inspired by the Program. Other Si-Fi writer have us wondering about the future.

I had the debate with a close friend about the likelyhood of seeing a crude mech in my time. I was right; a logging machine that walked. It has legs and no wheels. A form of the Elemental armour was created and tested out.
 :-\
 
« Last Edit: 15 April 2014, 04:29:19 by Khan Jade Wolf »
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Stormlion1

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Re: What's next to come
« Reply #1 on: 13 April 2014, 22:07:56 »
Let me know when we have a jumpdrive. I need to get off Earth soonest.
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TS_Hawk

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Re: What's next to come
« Reply #2 on: 13 April 2014, 23:26:23 »
I'm with storm on this matter :)

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Colt Ward

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Re: What's next to come
« Reply #3 on: 14 April 2014, 00:41:46 »
Please, probably not too many people on this board who would not jump on that . . .
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Khan Jade Wolf

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Re: What's next to come
« Reply #4 on: 14 April 2014, 01:52:09 »
If you think I am full of mech coolant then check these out

Timberjack Walking Machine, check it out on Youtube

Mantis - Hexapod Walking Machine Tests 2012

If it is pssible to build these and a few free standing bi-peddle robots. Do you not wonder if we are in the beginning of the proto-mech age?
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Khan Jade Wolf

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Re: What's next to come; Mech?
« Reply #5 on: 15 April 2014, 23:58:23 »
I had hoped that there would be some discussion about the chance of the first Bettle Mech being created with our Life time.  :'(
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TS_Hawk

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Re: What's next to come; Mech?
« Reply #6 on: 16 April 2014, 00:12:12 »
The timber Jack has been around for 7 years. Its cool for an agro mech. But haven't seen the other

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ColBosch

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Re: What's next to come; Mech?
« Reply #7 on: 16 April 2014, 03:37:25 »
As a former Army tanker, I can assure you that combat mecha - actual armed units, not just specialized cargo haulers - will not appear in our lifetimes. If ever.
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Khan Jade Wolf

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Re: What's next to come; Mech?
« Reply #8 on: 16 April 2014, 07:41:17 »
As a former Army tanker, I can assure you that combat mecha - actual armed units, not just specialized cargo haulers - will not appear in our lifetimes. If ever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjKeX3_4RGw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imc4xQDp_Fs

You may be right! Yes I know that not everything on the web is factual, but I have seen a few free standing robots in real life.
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Stormlion1

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Re: What's next to come; Mech?
« Reply #9 on: 16 April 2014, 09:38:07 »
Play one of the Metal Gear games 3 I think, they have an entire conversation on why bipedal walking mechs are such a bad idea. Which is hilarious when you think about it because there mocking one of the entire premise's of the game series!
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VanVelding

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Re: What's next to come
« Reply #10 on: 16 April 2014, 11:16:34 »
I'm pretty happy that Battletech is divorced from actual warfare by its inherent silliness. Real war machines tend to be closely tied with the other--to avoid opening a can of worms--unpleasant, real world elements of war. I'd rather not see articles about whether or not Timberwolf kills statistics are being manipulated for ideological reasons, listen to a politician spit bile while flanked by a pair of star-spangled Thugs, or pick out the hastily repainted flags on the Atlases occupying a real life city.

Watching something that I've enjoyed playing with used to conduct the dirty business of war would probably rank at nine out of ten Stay Puft Marshmallow Mans ushering in the reign of Gozer.

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Stormlion1

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Re: What's next to come
« Reply #11 on: 16 April 2014, 11:23:11 »
Eh, it's gonna be built, crewed, and filled with more people. Trying to escape humanity with technology is like trying to get rid of your own shadow with a lantern. :-\

I never said I wanted to escape humanity, just this planet. We need a frontier to spread out.
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RebelRunner

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Re: What's next to come; Mech?
« Reply #12 on: 16 April 2014, 11:51:34 »
As a former Army tanker, I can assure you that combat mecha - actual armed units, not just specialized cargo haulers - will not appear in our lifetimes. If ever.

I agree with you there, however, I suspect that Battle Armor will become fact within our lifetimes. Think of how useful a mobile HMG or GPMG would be, operated by one man and not needing time to emplace.

Now, JumpShips are what I want to see most of all  ;) :)
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Khan Jade Wolf

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Re: What's next to come; Mech?
« Reply #13 on: 16 April 2014, 13:27:03 »
I agree with you there, however, I suspect that Battle Armor will become fact within our lifetimes. Think of how useful a mobile HMG or GPMG would be, operated by one man and not needing time to emplace.

Now, JumpShips are what I want to see most of all  ;) :)

Well have the free standing 'no wires attatched' robots. We have gyro-stablizers and super fast computers. We most certainly have I.C.E. and with the development of the robots articulating joints. Could be made larger and set into a larger mechine (Mech)??
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Matti

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Re: What's next to come; Mech?
« Reply #14 on: 16 April 2014, 14:46:08 »
with the development of the robots articulating joints. Could be made larger and set into a larger mechine (Mech)??
There have been serious attempts to make military ground vehicles with size and combat power of warships. Didn't happen. Armored trains are the strongest we got.

But heavy full body armor powered by exoskeleton... That could be useful. We have good idea from BattleTech, Warhammer 40,000, and some other works of fiction (Starship Troopers novel) just how useful those could get. But take a look at Hammer's Slammers what tanks can be like [drool]
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TS_Hawk

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Re: What's next to come; Mech?
« Reply #15 on: 16 April 2014, 20:08:20 »
But take a look at Hammer's Slammers what tanks can be like [drool]

We already have some big arse hover craft too that if they can work out the kinks could be some nasty tanks that don't just have to transport

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Sabelkatten

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Re: What's next to come; Mech?
« Reply #16 on: 21 April 2014, 06:06:09 »
We already have some big arse hover craft too that if they can work out the kinks could be some nasty tanks that don't just have to transport
Hover (unfortunately) suck as MBTs - you can't put non-recoilless guns heavier than 20-30 mm on them unless you're talking about that ship-sized hovers that really only works over water, and they really can't carry useful armor. :P


Maingunnery

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Re: What's next to come; Mech?
« Reply #17 on: 21 April 2014, 06:17:23 »

There are a couple of big problems even with that lumber hexapod, its so slow and complex (blame this on the hydraulics).

Any kind of combat capable mecha is likely restricted to various forms of Battle Armor.  And then only if they are as fast or faster then conventional infantry.
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Stormlion1

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Re: What's next to come; Mech?
« Reply #18 on: 21 April 2014, 09:30:31 »
Battle Armor as we all know and love it has several uses not just for warfare. Space, Planetary exploration, hazardous environment use, construction, etc, etc so eventually someone will put one together and use it. But it will be military first and everything else after. Its what we will see long before we see a Battlemech of any kind.
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Matti

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Re: What's next to come; Mech?
« Reply #19 on: 21 April 2014, 10:33:49 »
We already have some big arse hover craft too that if they can work out the kinks could be some nasty tanks that don't just have to transport
Needs nuclear fusion engine too... And water doesn't hold Hammer's 170 ton hovertanks: 1 sank to river when bridge collapsed under it (Rolling Hot, part of The Complete Hammer's Slammers Volume 2)
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Stormlion1

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Re: What's next to come; Mech?
« Reply #20 on: 21 April 2014, 11:07:37 »
Needs nuclear fusion engine too... And water doesn't hold Hammer's 170 ton hovertanks: 1 sank to river when bridge collapsed under it (Rolling Hot, part of The Complete Hammer's Slammers Volume 2)

I always laughed when the 1st book came out. If it was a "The Complete Hammer's Slammers" why was there a book 1? Shouldn't a "Complete" been all in one book?
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HazMeat

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Re: What's next to come
« Reply #21 on: 21 April 2014, 13:12:00 »
Walking machines of various sizes and numbers of legs are gonna become useful for lots of things as the technology matures.  Futuristic battle tanks are unlikely to be among those roles, and that's just the way I like it. 
I'm pretty happy that Battletech is divorced from actual warfare by its inherent silliness. Real war machines tend to be closely tied with the other--to avoid opening a can of worms--unpleasant, real world elements of war.
May I be permitted to update my signature to that quote? 

It's about more than just the legs and the portable fusion power, too.  Really, the idea that in the far future weapons will continue to be piloted by humans is probably the most unlikely aspect of battlemechs; people will make a lot of drama about fear of unlikely Skynet scenarios, but the simple fact remains that combat machines are already to points where having parts made of relatively valuable meat are among their biggest limitations.  If "war as we know it," as in the kind that involves weapons similar in functionality to guns and bombs and spy planes, continues to be a thing between industrialised entities, (not gonna go into speculation on how likely or unlikely _that_ is...) then I expect such "conventional" weapons will probably evolve into cheap, disposable sensor and/or kamikaze robots optimised for whatever various operational range and readiness profiles the wars of the future call for.  I'm thinking of things like the flying robots being tested out for civilian courier use today. 
I'm pretty happy that Battletech is divorced from actual warfare by its inherent silliness. Real war machines tend to be closely tied with the other--to avoid opening a can of worms--unpleasant, real world elements of war.

Sabelkatten

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Re: What's next to come; Mech?
« Reply #22 on: 21 April 2014, 13:40:50 »
Battle Armor as we all know and love it has several uses not just for warfare. Space, Planetary exploration, hazardous environment use, construction, etc, etc so eventually someone will put one together and use it. But it will be military first and everything else after. Its what we will see long before we see a Battlemech of any kind.
Depending on whether you're talking about actual armored suits or just any kind of powered exoskeleton...

Arguably the first use is geriatrics and physical therapy. I expect cargo handling will be next - and military cargo handling being early. Combat use is still years away, we need better power plants and/or more energy-efficient actuators first.

As for pulling people out of warmachines completely, I think any serious discussion about that would have to violate forum rules about political topics. :(

Matti

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Re: What's next to come; Mech?
« Reply #23 on: 22 April 2014, 12:51:28 »
As for pulling people out of warmachines completely, I think any serious discussion about that would have to violate forum rules about political topics. :(
Not necessarily. Remote controlled weapon systems have tons of drawbacks: in Mech Commander games player can get automated weapon emplacements to own use simply by capturing the control building. In novel THE SHARP END (part of The Complete Hammer's Slammers), engineer hacks on number of small remote controlled drones and takes control of them from enemy commander. And we know about movies where control of nuclear missiles are accessed by ordinary computer and dial-up modem. Oh, and in one BattleTech story Lyran commando squad incapacitate WoB fleet of Caspar drones by infiltrating and wrecking the command center.

How fascinating remote controlled weapons are now?
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Sabelkatten

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Re: What's next to come; Mech?
« Reply #24 on: 22 April 2014, 16:30:07 »
The problem is more far-reaching than that. Specifically, why do you get combat drones? Now, tactical aircraft are obvious (endurance and maneuverability), but for most other missions its about needing less soldiers. But a nation that's only interested in defending itself should (for quite a while to come) get more combat power per monetary unit by having a conscript army.

You see where this gets political rather quickly?

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Re: What's next to come; Mech?
« Reply #25 on: 22 April 2014, 16:45:16 »
Specifically, why do you get combat drones?
I would say to limit the number of deaths of trained personnel. This is likely to become a big problem in the future for jet fighters, because we will likely get sensor systems that can break stealth and effective combat lasers. The combination could turn the skies into a slaughter.
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HazMeat

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Political?  Remote control?  What are we talking about, now?  Okay, I see where it can get political rather quickly and easily, if we choose to steer the conversation that way.  "For quite a while to come" can fall short of the end of Humans blowing stuff up, and I thought the default assumption is that most nations will be interested in needing fewer soldiers as well as might:money efficiency, with exceptions and reasons for them being a topic to fence off and avoid.  Bleargh. 

I thought I was bringing up a subtopic of technical feasibility revolving around things like our bodies' physiologically possible tolerances for acceleration, temperature changes, ionising radiation, life-support requirements, etc. etc. etc. as well as performance limitations like reaction time, inability to keep track of dozens or hundreds of targets, our innate distaste (in most of us, anyway) for "directly" killing members of our own species, lucidity being sensitive to emotions, etc. etc. etc.  What I meant was simply that there are gobs and gobs of stuff that can be improved upon, so some one is going to try to make those improvements, so every one who needs to keep up with military technology must follow suit in order to remain competitive.  Gunner also brings up a good point IMO re: the costs of training personnel, and of finding suitable candidates in the first place. 

Popular fiction is rich with depictions of _autonomous_ systems other than humans being hilariously easy to steal by handwaving "hacking."  If I have the resources to build a competent soldier AI but have to use delicate, slow humans instead because you have the information supremacy to threaten my systems security on such a basic level, I've already lost the battle.  With that kind of threat capability, targeting my weapons rather than my infrastructure is rather silly, aff? 

Back onto another topic brought up in the OP, and which I suspect is not getting as much attention as that poster would like, both Science Fiction and "softer" fantasy have foreshadowed reality, but those hits are vastly outnumbered by the misses.  Some are prediction, where the author either sees something coming by rational foresight or guesses it by blind luck.  Some are inspiration, where we make something real because enough of us think it worth realising, and it just turns out to be possible and within our power.  I expect that "Soft Science Fiction," especially when its whole existence is to serve as a backdrop for a game the whole point of which is "cool" entertainment, is not particularly rich in those hits.  That's just the way I like it, too; like VanVelding said, there's a lot of serious things in the world that some of us like to take a break from once in a while, and a proudly unrealistic setting suits that. 
I'm pretty happy that Battletech is divorced from actual warfare by its inherent silliness. Real war machines tend to be closely tied with the other--to avoid opening a can of worms--unpleasant, real world elements of war.

Khan Jade Wolf

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Political?  Remote control?  What are we talking about, now?  Okay, I see where it can get political rather quickly and easily, if we choose to steer the conversation that way.  "For quite a while to come" can fall short of the end of Humans blowing stuff up, and I thought the default assumption is that most nations will be interested in needing fewer soldiers as well as might:money efficiency, with exceptions and reasons for them being a topic to fence off and avoid.  Bleargh. 

I hope this stays nonpolitical, as I have seen tools out there on the web and at 'Future Shows' that I could use. I am restricted to 45 LB of weight carried, due to a badly messed up hip.

I thought I was bringing up a subtopic of technical feasibility revolving around things like our bodies' physiologically possible tolerances for acceleration, temperature changes, ionising radiation, life-support requirements, etc. etc. etc. as well as performance limitations like reaction time, inability to keep track of dozens or hundreds of targets, our innate distaste (in most of us, anyway) for "directly" killing members of our own species, lucidity being sensitive to emotions, etc. etc. etc.  What I meant was simply that there are gobs and gobs of stuff that can be improved upon, so some one is going to try to make those improvements, so every one who needs to keep up with military technology must follow suit in order to remain competitive.  Gunner also brings up a good point IMO re: the costs of training personnel, and of finding suitable candidates in the first place. 

Put yourself in my boots, I know that a few could do so because you're in the same or worst shape as I am. I watched a video showing an exoskeleton, allowing a Soldier to carry 200 Kilos as easy as carrying 40 Kilos. The price for that is 2.5 Million rounded up.

Popular fiction is rich with depictions of _autonomous_ systems other than humans being hilariously easy to steal by handwaving "hacking."  If I have the resources to build a competent soldier AI but have to use delicate, slow humans instead because you have the information supremacy to threaten my systems security on such a basic level, I've already lost the battle.  With that kind of threat capability, targeting my weapons rather than my infrastructure is rather silly, aff? 
Aff!
Back onto another topic brought up in the OP, and which I suspect is not getting as much attention as that poster would like, both Science Fiction and "softer" fantasy have foreshadowed reality, but those hits are vastly outnumbered by the misses.  Some are prediction, where the author either sees something coming by rational foresight or guesses it by blind luck.  Some are inspiration, where we make something real because enough of us think it worth realising, and it just turns out to be possible and within our power.  I expect that "Soft Science Fiction," especially when its whole existence is to serve as a backdrop for a game the whole point of which is "cool" entertainment, is not particularly rich in those hits.  That's just the way I like it, too; like VanVelding said, there's a lot of serious things in the world that some of us like to take a break from once in a while, and a proudly unrealistic setting suits that. 

Yep I was heading down that track. The flip Phone was Inspired by Star Trek: "Beeping Beam me Up Scotty" Not an true quote but close enough.
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Re: What's next to come; Mech?
« Reply #28 on: 24 April 2014, 08:16:19 »
I'm thinking exoskeletons and Drone Walkers.   Big Dog project had biggest potential in developing into a war fighter, but Google purchased of Boston Dynamic squashed that big time.   

Exoskeletons been making strives in being able help soldiers carry extra equipment, it be logical for them to develop into full-suits eventually.  If we still have human soldiers by that time.  :-X
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