Author Topic: 'Mech of the Mid-Week: GST-XX Ghost  (Read 11196 times)

GreekFire

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'Mech of the Mid-Week: GST-XX Ghost
« on: 24 February 2016, 00:03:51 »
The Ghost, from TRO:3085


Yeah, it’s Wednesday, I know. But hey, I had a slow night and plenty of time to finish this *and* start another, so you’re getting this one early. Got a problem with it? PM me and I’ll 1v1 you over Megamek, bruh.

~ ~ ~

Wew, the Ghost. What an amazing ‘Mech. Although its 3077 introductory date doesn't make it the first non-Capellan/Blakist ‘Mech to get Stealth Armor, it was the first to get a dedicated TRO entry. It would also be the first Stealth ‘Mech the Free Worlds League (or the Duchy of Oriente, if you want to get pedantic about it..) would get their grubby little hands on, and that’s something special, I guess. Said to be designed around its Stealth Armor, the Ghost was built off of the Mongoose II’s superb electronics package to create a ‘Mech “...nearly impossible to corner or trap”, one that “...can cause enough damage to make it a fearsome deep penetration raider.” And that, my friends, is why you should never believe a TRO’s filthy little lies.

Man, if only the Ghost was like the Mongoose II. The Mongoose II is a great ‘Mech, with everything you could ever want from an E-Warfare specialist. But the Ghost, the freaking Ghost. Whadda ‘Mech. A wonderful, uninspiring, unimpressive flounderer that somehow spends all of its tonnage without managing to muster the firepower of ‘Mechs half its size (Huh, I just wrote about the Anubis too, what a coincidence). I don’t get it, I just don’t. I mean, look at it! A 50-ton ‘Mech with an XL engine moving it 6/9. That ain’t bad, right?! The Centurion has more than a handful of decent variants at that speed, same goes for the Hunchback and the Nightsky. So what gives?

~ ~ ~

Let’s break it down. Two Light PPCs, that’s six tons. Two MML-3s with two tons of ammo (no CASE), that’s another five. An ER Medium Laser rounds out the armament for a total of twelve tons spent on firepower...out of fifty. Damn that’s low. Why, though? The E-Warfare package for starters. A Beagle Active Probe makes it a "scout", while the Guardian ECM can either interdict or power the Ghost's 10.5 tons of Stealth Armor. Then there’s the four extra double heat sinks. Wait, four more double heat sinks, on top of the base ten?! Guess the League gets its oversinking habits from Oriente.

Put it all together and whaddya get? You don’t wanna know. Nah, I’m joking, but honestly...it’s not good. It can scout, but the Beagle and ECM stop working the moment the Stealth goes on. Sure, you can drop the Stealth until the hostiles start appearing - but you can’t count on those hostiles to always play your game. Any enemy scout-hunters can and will tear this thing apart, and since the Ghost only moves 6/9, that means even a basic bug can outmaneuver and reliably backstab it. And if anything closes to point-blank range, chances are you’ll only be able to hit with those MML-3s and the single ER Medium. Not exactly scary.

To talk a bit more about reconnaissance, 6/9 isn’t the best of speeds for a scout - and that’s even if you aren’t using the superior TacOps rules for Probes. The armor does come in handy though - if you do stumble across hidden units, the GST’s heavier armor will let it keep trudging on even when lighter scouts would crumble. Still, scout-hunters are, once again, a huge problem. Nimble scouts like the Nyx, Mongoose II or Owens can reliably outrun most of their natural predators. The Ghost? Not so much - and there’s nothing quite like losing your Probe when there’s still hidden units on the map.

Alright, scouting is...problematic. What about using it as a ranged sniper? Ehh...two 5-point hits and two 1-3 point plinkers. That’s hardly anything intimidating. You can shoot 'em all and remain cool, but Light PPCs don’t really work well as stealth weapons. Their brackets will force you to hang back farther than you’d like to gain that sweet stealth advantage, especially versus common ranged weapons like ERLLs, AC/5s, PPCs of any kind, etc. The Ghost might deal decent damage for a Medium Stealth ‘Mech (for a total of 12-16 points per volley) but the lack of any decent damage clusters or good back-up brawling weapons (see, for example, the Eyleuka -45A for a similarly-priced competitor) make this ‘Mech little more than a nuisance. That said, facing a short-ranged AC/20 or ML brawler is a piece of cake. The Ghost can dance at ranges 4-8 all day long and bring three 5-point hits along with its SRM/LRM missiles...which frankly, ain’t bad at all.

The old MWDA fluff says that the Ghost was designed as a heavy raider or headhunter, a partner-'Mech to the ol' Griffin standbys. It...works? Sort of? I guess? The MMLs and Light PPCs do kind of compliment the standard ERPPC/LRM combo of most Griffins, and both 'Mechs are relatively mobile mediums (although they certainly aren't the fastest). The Beagle would come in handy, as would the ECM, but I'm still not feeling it. There’s just not enough straight-up firepower to make this combo a viable headhunting duo, and they seem way too slow to act as effective raiders.

Honestly, the Ghost’s biggest strength and key selling point is how tough it is. That full shell of armor, laid out 21/10(CT), 17/7(ST), 16(arms), 24(legs), makes it pretty durable in any straight up fights or ambush situations. That toughness also makes it a simple choice for enemies to, well...ignore. Why bother wasting the time to down a ‘Mech that hardly does anything at range while there are still better targets to shoot at?

~ ~ ~

The first variant, the GST-11, is as simple as they come. Replace the Stealth Armor with the standard stuff, and there ya have it. Doesn't much matter, that Stealth was hardly useful anyway. ‘Cause I mean, come on. I doubt many people would go out of their way to shoot it in the first place, and removing the Stealth probably won’t change much of that. I mean...why waste the ammo? The ECM can be a pain if you’re going the C3(i) route, but other than that? Man, deal with the big uglies first. The only real downside is that the -11 is more vulnerable to pulse lasers, but that ain't too big a deal in my eyes.

Oh yeah - since this is a simple armor swap, the -11 is wildly oversinked. Like, B1-HND Bloodhound or half-of-the-‘Mechs-in-TRO-3050 oversinked. Woof, talk about a tonnage dump. This swap does save you more than 100(!!) BV, so if you just want the Ghost for its slow scouting and interdicting abilities, I’d suggest going for this one instead. Still...that BV could be put towards a Mongoose II. Or a Firestarter -OH/-OX. Or hell, even a Raptor II -2X1 if you’re fiddling around with high-quality Republic toys. The only thing the Ghost has over any of them is, once again, its armor. Better be worth a lot to you.

~ ~ ~

Now we can get into the Dark Age models. And yeezus...ya gotta wonder what happened here. The transition to a Light Engine - definitely a good choice. 50 tons is the ideal weight for Light Engine’d 6/9 movers. They get new Endo-Steel skeletons, too. Apparently a “cheaper component”, but hey, bring on the weight savings, eh? Things must be good now, right? Yeah, no.

The GST-50 spends all of its free weight on two Large Pulse Lasers, an SRM-6 with a ton of (CASE’d!) ammo and a single ER Small Laser because why the hell not. For the number crunchers among you, yeah, this thing would be overweight...if the armor didn’t get reduced to 8 tons of standard plate, distributed 17/6(CT), 14/4(ST), 12(arms), 18(legs). Yeah. More survivable because of the engine, but less survivable because of the armor. What a fantastic trade-off. The weapons are an improvement, as crazy as that sounds. It’s a scout-hunter of its own now, with its decent speed and twin LPLs throwing up a pretty potent threat bubble for most lights. The SRM-6 can mount infernos to mess up infantry and vehicles, and the ER Small is there to look good and work with the art. Cool. Just watch your heat - all of the extra sinks of the GST-10 fail to rematerialize here, so you’re stuck with the base 10 double.

~ ~ ~

Our final contender for “Most WTF Ghost Variant of the Year” is the GST-90 - and hell, it can claim the grand prize. It's a near copy of the GST-50, with the same Light Engine, Endo-Steel, 10 double heat sinks and armor layout. It even has the twin Large Pulse Lasers giving it some sweet light ‘Mech interdiction powers. But then it takes the SRM-6, the CASE, the ER Small and replaces them all with...a Chainsaw. A bloody chainsaw. All to pretend to be a Crosscut LoggerMech and to reduce logistical burdens, according to the MWDA fluff. Man. Sure, you can cut down trees now. But trust me, there are waaaay better ways to get rid of a few woods hexes, especially since the Chainsaw requires its ‘Mech to be in the same hex as the woods it wants to destroy. What’s that? You enjoy getting rid of your own cover? Yeah, ok.

You want some good news? Those two modern Ghosts are dirt cheap and about as easy to use as they get. Since they no longer have Light PPCs or carry ER Mediums on their arms, feel free to run around and throw two 5-point lovetaps whenever you want. ‘Course, the GST-90 has one of its hands actuators missing (thanks, Chainsaw - and don’t even think about using *that* on another ‘Mech, it ain’t worth it) but it’s still a cheap and effective 'Mech for telling lights to screw off and bug something else for a while. You do, after all, have the armor of a 40-ton ‘Mech and enough firepower to punch some nice holes into more than a few backstabbers.

~ ~ ~

Conclusion? The originals are oversinked, undergunned, oversized and overly-slow Scout ‘Mechs. The new ones are underarmored, but otherwise somewhat effective scout-hunters. They actually play kind of well together, in an interesting sort of way. The new breed provides some measure of holepunching and attention-grabbing, while the old ones can follow up with some sandblasting and critseeking. The new gives some protection to the old from other scout-hunters, the old provides some valuable ECM and Probe data to the new. Oh, but don’t be tempted to send one of the -50/-90's against a -10/-11 unless you want a long, drawn out and absolutely yawn-inducing fight. The -50/-90 might be good at killing lights, but they're terrible at dealing with tougher mediums. And the -10/-11 don’t even have enough firepower, period, to even think about burning through through the -50/-90's weaker armor.

How do you kill one? Well, for the oversized scouts, bring something just as fast or faster with some decent short-ranged firepower. The Wraith, Marik Ostsols, and Hermes -4S are all good League options if facing Lyran forces, while the Uziel -8S, Nightsky, and Firestarter-O are solid choices for Lyrans facing Leaguers. For the scout-hunting variants, outrange or outarmor them. Most decently-armored mediums can take them on, so stick with the staples and you’ll be fine.

Looking for alternatives? The Lyrans have free access to the Mongoose II and Firestarter-O - two very effective scouts. The League isn’t lacking in designs either; they’ve got the Bloodhound and Cicada -3G to fit their needs. And if your thirst for armor isn’t overwhelming, the Owens, Ostscout -9S and Nyx are common enough to be viable choices as well. For the -50/-90...they’re cheap, very cheap. Better alternatives will invariably force you to either pay more BV, or lose out on armor and durability. That said, they’re basically inferior knock-offs of the Anvil. If you can afford them, the Anvil -5Q and Ostsol -5M both have more firepower, more armor (although the Ostsol does have an XL) and deadlier physicals. They’re a lot pricier, though, so the -90 and its “purer” concept might be a better purchase depending on what you’re looking for.

~ ~ ~

I know this has been a largely negative write-up, but I truly feel that the original Ghost tried to do too much and failed because of it. It could have sacrificed firepower/sinks/armor for more speed, or the beagle/sinks/armor for more firepower. Maybe both. And either situation would have a better, more streamlined 'Mech because of it. Even the newer Ghosts could be cleaned up, as the removal of their extraneous doodads could give them the armor or back-up weaponry needed to be more  attractive units. Perhaps one day we will get new and improved variants to shock and awe, but until that day, be prepared to work hard if you bring one of these to the table.

~ ~ ~

MUL: http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=ghost
IWM: http://ironwindmetals.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=3742
« Last Edit: 28 February 2016, 16:47:41 by GreekFire »
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Re: 'Mech of the Mid-Week: GST-XX Ghost
« Reply #1 on: 24 February 2016, 03:40:23 »
Great article. I'm not going to try to defend the Ghost, per se, but I have to say that the few times I've used the GST-10, I felt like it did its job; it harassed the enemy at medium range and soaked just enough to firepower for its teammates to do their jobs. It's nothing fantastic, but I have to admit I like it anyway.


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Empyrus

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Re: 'Mech of the Mid-Week: GST-XX Ghost
« Reply #2 on: 24 February 2016, 08:16:07 »
Based on the art, i'd say the 'Mech's a cousin of the Valiant. I guess it is that Dark Age-style that makes those two look similar? Though the mini is a bit different.

I reckon this is one of those 'Mechs whose stats were dictated by ClickyTech... Those seem to have "pulse" ability, and some uniques have a chainsaw.
The Stealth armored one is probably an attempted improvement but... well, it isn't much of an improvement.

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Re: 'Mech of the Mid-Week: GST-XX Ghost
« Reply #3 on: 24 February 2016, 09:06:51 »
Were I to use a -10 or -11, I'd use it as an EW support guy for a medium company or battalion. Stick it in the command lance(but don't put an officer in it), and the guns can boost the salvos if your heavy hitters, the ECM can protect whoever you think is gonna draw the most attention that turn, and the Beagle can spoil ambushes or monitor remote sensors, improving your commander's situational awareness. While we're on a support kick, be sure to load a ton of smoke rounds into your MMLs so you can drop cover for yourself and your lancemates on a moment's notice.

I know a lot of people won't consider that kind of force multiplication worth the points you have to put into a Ghost, but it's up to you to decide if you want that or another gunboat.

Another thought I just had while typing this is to treat the Ghost the way the SLDF did their Sentinels, as infantry support mechs. They'd support the troops in much the same way as I suggested in a command lance. A pair of Ghosts assigned to an infantry battalion would provide the force long-range firepower they're usually lacking, EW capabilities infantry officers can usually only dream of, and best of all, a (relatively) big and obvious target that draws fire away from the advancing troops, but is also hard to hit.

As for the newer models? I'm going to have to be VERY careful with those, as my Leaguer instincts are screaming to call it a pocket Anvil, but I'm pretty sure that treating it as such will go poorly, given the vast difference in durability. might be better off assigned next to more important mechs like the earlier models, but this time as a go-away button vs backstabbers instead of EW support.
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GreekFire

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Re: 'Mech of the Mid-Week: GST-XX Ghost
« Reply #4 on: 24 February 2016, 09:10:15 »
I reckon this is one of those 'Mechs whose stats were dictated by ClickyTech... Those seem to have "pulse" ability, and some uniques have a chainsaw.
The Stealth armored one is probably an attempted improvement but... well, it isn't much of an improvement.

Both Pulse variants were almost 100% dictated by clicky-stats. The Chainsaw one was supposed to have an ER Small Laser as well (thank god it doesn't), but other than that those two variants are faithful to their source.
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Re: 'Mech of the Mid-Week: GST-XX Ghost
« Reply #5 on: 24 February 2016, 09:13:34 »
Company support 'Mech? Sure, why not. But I'd just pick a Raven for that job. Though the Ravens with ECM and BAP have limited availability, with only -3L being available to others than Cappies and Canopians.

GreekFire

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Re: 'Mech of the Mid-Week: GST-XX Ghost
« Reply #6 on: 24 February 2016, 09:31:16 »
Were I to use a -10 or -11, I'd use it as an EW support guy for a medium company or battalion. Stick it in the command lance(but don't put an officer in it), and the guns can boost the salvos if your heavy hitters, the ECM can protect whoever you think is gonna draw the most attention that turn, and the Beagle can spoil ambushes or monitor remote sensors, improving your commander's situational awareness. While we're on a support kick, be sure to load a ton of smoke rounds into your MMLs so you can drop cover for yourself and your lancemates on a moment's notice.

I know a lot of people won't consider that kind of force multiplication worth the points you have to put into a Ghost, but it's up to you to decide if you want that or another gunboat.

That works, but it's the alternatives that stand out to me. The Mongoose II -267 adds a nice TargComp'd ER Large Laser and C3 to that package, while the Falcon Hawk adds TAG and the Night Hawk, a second Large Laser. Even the Owens -1F works. They're all more fragile, but I rarely want my force-multipliers to pack loads of armor anyway. Sure, no smoke, but I rarely have trouble finding a way to fit two MML-3 launcher into a force.
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Re: 'Mech of the Mid-Week: GST-XX Ghost
« Reply #7 on: 24 February 2016, 09:35:06 »
Company support 'Mech? Sure, why not. But I'd just pick a Raven for that job. Though the Ravens with ECM and BAP have limited availability, with only -3L being available to others than Cappies and Canopians.
Yeah, ECM and Probes are individually quite common, but when you look at a faction's availability, things that mount both are a lot less plentiful than you'd think. Especially in the FWLM, I've looked.
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JadeHellbringer

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Re: 'Mech of the Mid-Week: GST-XX Ghost
« Reply #8 on: 24 February 2016, 09:46:42 »
The -50 has potential as an LRM-boat bodyguard, I suppose. Nothing more annoying than finding your Longbow/Archer/whatever is being harassed by a Spider or Wraith or something that jumps around a lot like that- twin large pulse lasers nearby is a pretty handy way to tell that guy to get bent somewhere else... trying to find other polite things to say about the Ghost... ah, using it in this role frees up other units for other work...?

Bottom line, this is an 'ehhhh' Mech on its best day, and on its worst is just failure on a bun. Proof that in a universe full of Hellstars, Marauders, and Hellions, sometimes there's duds too. (which is not a knock on the creator of the Mech's stats, of course- I mean that, not everything can nor should be a super-Mech. We need our Sentinels, Ghosts, and Goliaths just as much as we need the amazing stuff.)
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Re: 'Mech of the Mid-Week: GST-XX Ghost
« Reply #9 on: 24 February 2016, 11:39:51 »
If I had to use a Ghost, I'd use the -50.  I'm a huge fan of the ANV-3R, and the GST-50 is basically a scaled-down version of it.
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Re: 'Mech of the Mid-Week: GST-XX Ghost
« Reply #10 on: 24 February 2016, 12:44:37 »
Swapping the two light PPCs for a Snub nose model might make it better. You'd at least get more damage close up, but still have the same range as the light PPCs.
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Re: 'Mech of the Mid-Week: GST-XX Ghost
« Reply #11 on: 24 February 2016, 12:55:48 »
I'm really confused by the comments regarding heat sinks.  It has 14 of them, which is barely over the minimum to keep cool while running the Stealth Armor, but it's treated as a woeful oversinking example.  28 total dissipation, of which 10 is automatically taken by the armor itself, 2 by movement, 10 by PPCs, 4 from MMLs.  That's a total of 26 at long range.  You could probably argue that the Ghost could stand to drop one, but for... what then?  More guns would make it undersinked, the armor is already good, the EW suite is already good.

If it didn't have Stealth Armor, there'd be a massive oversinking problem going on, but as is it's about as good as it gets.  Just never drop the Stealth Armor and dance around at long range for most weapons.
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Re: 'Mech of the Mid-Week: GST-XX Ghost
« Reply #12 on: 24 February 2016, 13:33:38 »
I'm really confused by the comments regarding heat sinks.  It has 14 of them, which is barely over the minimum to keep cool while running the Stealth Armor, but it's treated as a woeful oversinking example.  28 total dissipation, of which 10 is automatically taken by the armor itself, 2 by movement, 10 by PPCs, 4 from MMLs.  That's a total of 26 at long range.  You could probably argue that the Ghost could stand to drop one, but for... what then?  More guns would make it undersinked, the armor is already good, the EW suite is already good.

In my opinion, it is woefully oversinked. Like you said, there's already one DHS too many for ranged combat. Then you've got two more DHS to cover for the MML's heat - all for what averages out as two 2-point hits. So by my count, that's three extra heat sinks that really don't add much of anything to the design; at 11 doubles, you can still shoot (LPPC+MML/3x2) or (LPPCx2) at a run while remaining heat neutral. That's not much of a drop in firepower - hardly anything gamechanging.

Those three tons can then be put towards larger MML racks (or another MML/3), more ammo for the launchers, CASE, more ER Mediums for close-ranged combat, MASC...the list goes on.

The biggest thing, though, is how oversinked it is when the Stealth is off. Sure, you *can* never turn the Stealth off, but if you do that you'll have a useless Beagle on your hands. Combine that with the extra double heat sink, and you've still got 2.5 tons that would be better spent elsewhere. Drop a half ton of armor, and the same options as before become available.

This all ties back to trying to do too much on the same chassis - trying to be a Stealth sniper and a scout all at one. It's possible to pull that combo off - just look at the Mongoose II - but the Ghost makes too many sacrifices to accomplish either very well.
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Re: 'Mech of the Mid-Week: GST-XX Ghost
« Reply #13 on: 24 February 2016, 14:49:48 »
Ooooooh, two and a half tons... sounds like an AMS, a ton of ammo, and a TAG laser to me...
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Re: 'Mech of the Mid-Week: GST-XX Ghost
« Reply #14 on: 24 February 2016, 15:34:02 »
The Ghost got a very twisted history. The GST-50 was the original version as published in the Dark Age material as a bodyguard for fire support units like the Griffin. During the writing of TRO3085, the mech was redesigned as something else entirely. I think the GST-50 version performs its bodyguard duty very well. Its got the ability to take care of speedy annoyance sent to tie up the Griffins and Archers.

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Re: 'Mech of the Mid-Week: GST-XX Ghost
« Reply #15 on: 24 February 2016, 19:09:03 »
Were I to use a -10 or -11, I'd use it as an EW support guy for a medium company or battalion. Stick it in the command lance(but don't put an officer in it), and the guns can boost the salvos if your heavy hitters, the ECM can protect whoever you think is gonna draw the most attention that turn, and the Beagle can spoil ambushes or monitor remote sensors, improving your commander's situational awareness. While we're on a support kick, be sure to load a ton of smoke rounds into your MMLs so you can drop cover for yourself and your lancemates on a moment's notice.

I know a lot of people won't consider that kind of force multiplication worth the points you have to put into a Ghost, but it's up to you to decide if you want that or another gunboat.

Another thought I just had while typing this is to treat the Ghost the way the SLDF did their Sentinels, as infantry support mechs. They'd support the troops in much the same way as I suggested in a command lance. A pair of Ghosts assigned to an infantry battalion would provide the force long-range firepower they're usually lacking, EW capabilities infantry officers can usually only dream of, and best of all, a (relatively) big and obvious target that draws fire away from the advancing troops, but is also hard to hit.

As for the newer models? I'm going to have to be VERY careful with those, as my Leaguer instincts are screaming to call it a pocket Anvil, but I'm pretty sure that treating it as such will go poorly, given the vast difference in durability. might be better off assigned next to more important mechs like the earlier models, but this time as a go-away button vs backstabbers instead of EW support.

These are about the best ways I have managed to make a Ghost work --- I "inherited" 2 of the minis... and for a while was looking for some way to make them useful.
One other tactic I have found for them is as a guard for your commander. The ECM of course, and as Weirdo pointed out, using smoke rounds -- but you can also load either standard SRM's for vehicles, or even infernos, as well for burning out things. But have it use the smoke to protect it's charge, and the light PPCs' for extra damage to something else, all the while making itself a difficult target to get rid of. And it can look out for a fast backstabber, or other sudden rush, such as light hovers... and move to play with them, as well. No light mech wants something coming up and planting 2 punches at 5 damage each, as well as the SRM's... or even a kick or charge, especially since the Ghost has the armor advantage in that situation.

Barring that, it makes a somewhat decent vehicle hunter.... that's hard to kill in return.

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Re: 'Mech of the Mid-Week: GST-XX Ghost
« Reply #16 on: 25 February 2016, 00:51:42 »
The Ghost GST -11 is very much another victim of a poor transition between Clickytech to Battletech.
Building a mech around Stealth Armor and ECM isn't a bad idea, the prototype Hunchback 5SG was built around the same idea but pulls it off thanks to a Gauss Rifle.
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Re: 'Mech of the Mid-Week: GST-XX Ghost
« Reply #17 on: 25 February 2016, 15:15:50 »
The -50 has potential as an LRM-boat bodyguard, I suppose. Nothing more annoying than finding your Longbow/Archer/whatever is being harassed by a Spider or Wraith or something that jumps around a lot like that- twin large pulse lasers nearby is a pretty handy way to tell that guy to get bent somewhere else... trying to find other polite things to say about the Ghost... ah, using it in this role frees up other units for other work...?

Bottom line, this is an 'ehhhh' Mech on its best day, and on its worst is just failure on a bun. Proof that in a universe full of Hellstars, Marauders, and Hellions, sometimes there's duds too. (which is not a knock on the creator of the Mech's stats, of course- I mean that, not everything can nor should be a super-Mech. We need our Sentinels, Ghosts, and Goliaths just as much as we need the amazing stuff.)

Oi! You leave the Sentinel out of this! :P



As for the Ghost itself, I'd rather have an Anvil. Cheaper and with better armor, even if it's probably a near extinct design.

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Re: 'Mech of the Mid-Week: GST-XX Ghost
« Reply #18 on: 25 February 2016, 16:31:52 »
Oi! You leave the Sentinel out of this! :P



As for the Ghost itself, I'd rather have an Anvil. Cheaper and with better armor, even if it's probably a near extinct design.

Ooooooooh, I knew a swipe at the Sentinel would bring you out of hiding! It SUCKS, what are you gonna do about it?  ^-^

And you're right on the second part. At the end of the day, the Anvil does this job better- and if you're outperformed by a design that failed as spectacularly as the Anvil did, you're barking up the wrong tree. (Anvil refits to the Arrow IV model were a good idea by the FWL).

Actually now that I think of it, it's fortunate that the Anvil was built in the FWL, where failure is at least tolerated somewhat. Can you imagine what, say, Romano Liao would have done to the designers of a failed design paradigm like the Hammer/Anvil combo? (Which does have its merits, but isn't particularly spectacular either)
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Nahuris

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Re: 'Mech of the Mid-Week: GST-XX Ghost
« Reply #19 on: 25 February 2016, 16:46:41 »
Ooooooooh, I knew a swipe at the Sentinel would bring you out of hiding! It SUCKS, what are you gonna do about it?  ^-^

And you're right on the second part. At the end of the day, the Anvil does this job better- and if you're outperformed by a design that failed as spectacularly as the Anvil did, you're barking up the wrong tree. (Anvil refits to the Arrow IV model were a good idea by the FWL).

Actually now that I think of it, it's fortunate that the Anvil was built in the FWL, where failure is at least tolerated somewhat. Can you imagine what, say, Romano Liao would have done to the designers of a failed design paradigm like the Hammer/Anvil combo? (Which does have its merits, but isn't particularly spectacular either)

Be careful, insulting Sentinels can get you surrounded by people wanting to shoot at you....LOL
Yeah, I have a fond spot for the running egg.

And I do find some use for the Ghost with the twin Large Pulse lasers....but not enough to really consider it a first, or even second choice on the field.
Usually, I can find some use for a design.... something I can do with it... but the Ghost is kind of that special lemon - even with making lemonade, it isn't all that great.

It's a force multiplier, but for every role that you would use it for, there is another mech, made or used by the same faction, that is a bit better...... 
As noted, it tries to do too much, and languishes as truly too mediocre, overall.

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« Last Edit: 25 February 2016, 19:14:17 by Nahuris »
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Re: 'Mech of the Mid-Week: GST-XX Ghost
« Reply #20 on: 25 February 2016, 18:49:10 »
Ooooooooh, I knew a swipe at the Sentinel would bring you out of hiding! It SUCKS, what are you gonna do about it?  ^-^

Ah, my dear Hellbie, it means that an ass kicking awaits you. :P

Quote
And you're right on the second part. At the end of the day, the Anvil does this job better- and if you're outperformed by a design that failed as spectacularly as the Anvil did, you're barking up the wrong tree. (Anvil refits to the Arrow IV model were a good idea by the FWL).

Yep. It's why I'm not overly fond of any of the designs from that era. They tend to be garbage for the most part with only a few gems to make up for them. And they're not even a salvageable kind of bad like the stuff from the SW or Clan eras. As for the Arrowvil, never been fond of it to tell you the truth. Slowed down and have its role completely changed? No thank you. I'd have preferred someone sticking a LFE in it and using the spare mass to add jets and armor (and keep the ECM from the variant) or armor and MASC in place of jets for a bit of extra speed.

Quote
Actually now that I think of it, it's fortunate that the Anvil was built in the FWL, where failure is at least tolerated somewhat. Can you imagine what, say, Romano Liao would have done to the designers of a failed design paradigm like the Hammer/Anvil combo? (Which does have its merits, but isn't particularly spectacular either)

Bad things, I'd imagine. Honestly, the main issue was expecting a Light 'Mech to partner up with a (low end) Heavy. It would have worked a hell of a lot better with a faster (and renamed) Apollo instead.

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Re: 'Mech of the Mid-Week: GST-XX Ghost
« Reply #21 on: 27 February 2016, 17:40:36 »
the Ghost is, visually, an amalgam of nearly all the weird things that happened to 'mechs in the dark age.

oddly shaped armor that vaguely harkens to reactive plating on a size that's entirely unwieldy? check.
a waistline that makes supermodels wonder what their secret is under a somewhat oversized torso? check.
giant rollbars in places rollbars need not be? check.
weapons haphazardly bolted to the outside of the armor? check.

as far as i know it narrowly escapes the worst of that era's fashion crimes by not having ballistic weapons, but other than that, the poor thing the makings of an interesting 'mech forced into the silly outfits of it's day. fortunately for it, it's got some great gear choices on it.

just gotta get rid of those rollbars.......
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Re: 'Mech of the Mid-Week: GST-XX Ghost
« Reply #22 on: 27 February 2016, 18:49:09 »
See I remember taking the card for the Chainsaw one and making a pretty satisfactory mech- just without the chainsaw though I think I just gave it armor.

I like the LPL one, I think in a campaign the players just have to plan on dropping the ERSL for more armor.  IIRC, it is later widely sold to mercs though mostly that is the LPPC std armor design though the LPL ones are pretty spread around in the Dark Age to mercs.

Would one of the other melee weapons of the Dark Age have been better?
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Re: 'Mech of the Mid-Week: GST-XX Ghost
« Reply #23 on: 28 February 2016, 11:45:49 »
Would one of the other melee weapons of the Dark Age have been better?

Good question. The answer is not really, but that's only if you discount the "real" melee weapons. Otherwise basically anything would be better - a Sword, a Hatchet, a Retractable Blade...but really, IMO the best option would be to stick with two hands for punching and spend the remaining tonnage on anything else - preferably armor.
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Re: 'Mech of the Mid-Week: GST-XX Ghost
« Reply #24 on: 28 February 2016, 14:09:08 »
Good question. The answer is not really, but that's only if you discount the "real" melee weapons. Otherwise basically anything would be better - a Sword, a Hatchet, a Retractable Blade...but really, IMO the best option would be to stick with two hands for punching and spend the remaining tonnage on anything else - preferably armor.
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Re: 'Mech of the Mid-Week: GST-XX Ghost
« Reply #25 on: 28 February 2016, 15:02:35 »
Well, it was for Suzie 'Cutter' something . . . so yeah.  Plus I do not think it was as gimped in MWDA as it is under TW rules.  Stealth & melee on a fast machine is something a bit new, with a real weapon (hatchet or sword, maybe with AES?) it would be different than the TSM melee mechs.  Not sure we have a stealth & melee design before the Ghost . . .
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Re: 'Mech of the Mid-Week: GST-XX Ghost
« Reply #26 on: 28 February 2016, 16:03:35 »
Well, it was for Suzie 'Cutter' something . . . so yeah.  Plus I do not think it was as gimped in MWDA as it is under TW rules.  Stealth & melee on a fast machine is something a bit new, with a real weapon (hatchet or sword, maybe with AES?) it would be different than the TSM melee mechs.  Not sure we have a stealth & melee design before the Ghost . . .

Minor clarification here - the Chainsaw Ghost doesn't have Stealth Armor, only the Standard stuff.
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Re: 'Mech of the Mid-Week: GST-XX Ghost
« Reply #27 on: 28 February 2016, 16:32:08 »
Hmm, I would swear her profile mentioned stealth armor . . .
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Re: 'Mech of the Mid-Week: GST-XX Ghost
« Reply #28 on: 28 February 2016, 18:14:57 »
Hmm, I would swear her profile mentioned stealth armor . . .
Wouldn't be the first mech with Clickytech stats that would not add up in Battletech.
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Re: 'Mech of the Mid-Week: GST-XX Ghost
« Reply #29 on: 28 February 2016, 18:29:53 »
Plain old Durallex Heavy with CASE

 

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