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Title: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: sillybrit on 22 December 2011, 11:30:31
(http://k003.kiwi6.com/hotlink/484kiplgn3/purifier.jpg)
Purifer Adaptive Battle Armor - Technical Readout 3058U page 31



     The Purifier Adaptive Battle Armor; its name stands out more than the suit itself does on the battlefield. When we first encounter a design labeled as "Scout" or "Assault" we can immediately categorize them without any real need to read the actual description or stats, and even a "Standard" suit can be recognized as meaning a common or generic design, but "Adaptive"? It's as if the Word of Blake was attempting to inject into the Purifier the same air of mystery than pervades their whole organization. Only upon examining the design itself do we see exactly how the suit earns its designation, adapting its appearance to its surroundings thanks to the chameleon-like effect of its armor. The name Purifier also evoked images of righteous zeal, a design intended to cleanse the unworthy and the wicked; a foreshadowing perhaps of the events to come.

     I have to wonder just how many players actually used the Purifier in their games prior to the Jihad, whether in an opponent's forces or fielding them themselves. The Word of Blake never really seemed to accumulate many fans back then, having fought only one significant campaign prior to 3067, and they were considered more like background flavor than a real faction in the eyes of some players. With that background, when the Purifier was published in Field Manual: ComStar, the design was admired for its capabilities, but was then all but forgotten by my local groups. Of course, once the Blakists had their little temper tantrum, the suit came back with a vengeance, and for a time Purifier ambushes were popular with those who played Jihad scenarios.

     The R&D project for the Purifier began just a couple of months after the Word of Blake successfully invaded Terra, taking it from ComStar. Compared to other Battle Armor designs, this stage was rather prolonged, and it wasn't until August 3061 that the first prototypes were revealed, with testing proceeding at a blistering pace, so that the first production models were being manufactured as quickly as February 3062. Although not known until the introduction of the construction rules in Classic BattleTech Companion, the Purifier was another Medium-class design; however its abilities made it very different from the other factions' trooper suits that occupy that weight category.

     The key feature of the Purifier is its Mimetic armor, an advanced form of stealthy protection that allows the Battle Armor to change its color to match its background. The developmental history of Mimetic armor began with Star League-era research, that was acquired by ComStar when then they took control of Terra at the beginning of the Succession Wars. First developed as the Camo System around 2800, this bulky add-on equipment was installed in the Tornado PA(L), ComStar's copy of the SLDF's special operations Nighthawk power armor. Further research was still ongoing in 3058 when the Word of Blake captured Terra from ComStar, with the result being the improved product that we know as Mimetic armor. This technology not only causes targeting difficulties for 'Mechs and other armored combatants, but also conventional infantry, a type of unit unaffected by the various models of Stealth armor. In another change, in contrast to Stealth armor which is more effective at greater ranges, Mimetic armor is unaffected by range and its performance instead depends upon the speed of the Battle Armor.

     Both Mimetic and the older Camo System suffer a degree of lag, requiring a small but significant amount of time to change the color of the suit's skin to match the background. When a Purifier moves fast, the Mimetic armor cannot adapt fast enough, displaying blurred backgrounds that the suit has already passed, and this distortion can even make the Battle Armor more visible. When originally introduced back in Field Manual: ComStar, the game rules actually made Mimetic armor worse than it is today, due to the stealth effects replacing the standard Target Movement Modifiers. In contrast, under Total War, the targeting modifier the armor generates is separate from the standard Target Movement Modifiers. So in the case of a Purifier that moved 3 hexes, at the time of its introduction in Field Manual: ComStar, and up until the BattleTech Master Rules, the suit would have generated a +0 modifier, but under Total War it would still get a +1 modifier for the distance travelled.

     One last difference between Mimetic armor and the various Stealth versions, is that instead of being heavier it weighs the same as Standard composites, which means it could be retrofitted to many Inner Sphere designs that possesses the required number of free equipment slots, without any impact on performance. Unfortunately, Mimetic armor is very bulky, requiring more space than any other single system or component, leaving little room for weapons or other equipment. In the case of the Purifier, the designers chose to install a single Modular Weapon Mount, with enough capacity to fit moderately sized weapons such as Support PPCs and Recoilless Rifles, although the latter is not an official option. Apparently impressed by the stealthy characteristics of the Mimetic technology, the engineers only added 6 points worth of armor, which is really too low for a Medium suit. Yes, the Purifier can be very hard to hit, but given that the Blakists presumably always intended to take the fight to the Clans, the prospect of one shot-kills by Clan Medium Pulse Lasers makes the level of protection an unwise choice.

     The designers took the uncommon step of installing the Modular Weapon Mount on the left arm, giving the Purifier a distinctive look just from that small feature alone. Applying so little armor did provide the mount with an impressive 350kg payload, allowing the Purifier to mount the Inner Sphere version of the Extended Range Small Laser, which had been developed four years earlier by the Free World's League. Naturally, the League were willing to help out their overlords allies, and thus the Purifier fielded the laser as its main offensive weapon configuration when first introduced.

     In truth, the laser isn't that impressive a weapon, inflicting no more damage than the standard Small Laser, and only gaining a mere two extra hexes of range. While that range increase can sometimes be important, overall I don't consider it worth the additional 150kg that the Extended Range version requires over the standard laser, not when it can be bettered by lighter weapons. By the time of the introduction of the Purifier, the CCAF had begun fielding the Light Recoilless Rifle on their Inner Sphere Standards and the Infiltrator Mk II with its Magshot Gauss Rifle had been in service for nearly a year, which meant that the ER Small Laser was just too little, too late.

     All the other configurations use much lighter armament, meaning that the Purifier wastes far more mass compared to other designs that could potentially mount the same alternatives. The latest addition is the simplest to cover, with the Support PPC configuration introduced in 3069 to provide the Purifier with a so-called sniper option. While the PPC inflicts less damage than the ER Small Laser, it's longer ranged - which is an important factor for Battle Armor due to their relatively low mobility compared to most other unit types - and gives the Purifier a weapon that can (just) outrange the two lighter Recoilless Rifle types.

     The other two configurations have the potential to be far more effective even though they don't directly inflict damage themselves. The Light TAG and two-shot Compact Narc launcher are ideal force multipliers for a combined arms military like that possessed by the Word of Blake. In the case of the Light TAG, it can not only mark targets for laser guided bombs and homing artillery such as Arrow IV, it also dovetails neatly with semi-guided LRMs, another Free World's League development acquired by the Blakists. Less commonly used in my experience, the Compact Narc has one characteristic that is unique for Battle Armor: normally, every member of a squad fires at a target, but with the Narc only one trooper needs to launch a homing pod during an attempt to mark a foe, which helps stretch out the limited number of shots per suit.

     The Battle Claw on the right arm allows the Purifier to perform Anti-'Mech attacks, but it lacks an anti-personnel mount or any other form of secondary armament. Despite the capabilities of its Mimetic armor it's not particularly efficient when used against infantry, unless deploying unofficial configurations such as Medium Recoilless Rifles or Flamers. The Purifier is capable of engaging in Mechanized Battle Armor tactics, although the Word of Blake military possessed few Omnis to exploit this capability until the Celestial series appeared on the scene during the Jihad. The Mimetic armor does give the Purifier an advantage if taken under fire while deploying from an Omni or conventional APC, due to a side-effect of the rules. During the Turn that Battle Armor deploys from a transport, they're treated as if they have moved zero hexes, which for normal suits is potentially disastrous, but for the Purifier it means that their Mimetic armor is operating at its peak performance. With thicker armor, I'd suggest using this to allow troops to be offloaded directly into or in front of an enemy position, but in the case of the Purifier, I'd treat it as an extra safety net when caught off guard.

     Rounding out the Purifier's characteristics, it has the defacto standard mobility for a Medium suit, able to jump up to 90 meters per Turn or run at 10.8 kph. This level of maneuverability can perhaps be viewed as being as wasteful as the oversized payload of the Modular Weapon Mount, given that the Mimetic armor almost demands that the suit moves slowly to maximize survivability. That need made the Purifier unique among the canon Battle Armor designs until the eventual introduction of other Mimetic-equipped suits, with the first of those being the CCAF's Ying Long - another suit notable for its overweight primary weapon configuration.

     Most Battle Armor squads want to keep mobile, trying to generate as high a Target Movement Modifier as they possibly can, which can sometimes force them from an ideal position. However, the Purifier is free from such concerns, being able to squat in a hex and obtain a +3 modifier in addition to any effects of cover, regardless of the range to the attacker. This means that the Purifier is an ideal spotter, whether using a TAG or Narc configuration, or simply called in unguided indirect fire or artillery. The sweet combination of Purifier spotters, Light TAG and indirect fire Semi-Guided LRMs is well worth emphasizing here.

     The Purifier is perfectly capable of operating like the Inner Sphere Standard or similar trooper Battle Armor by fighting a more mobile battle, but this does effectively waste the properties of the Mimetic armor. More importantly, an individual Purifier simply cannot absorb as much punishment, which can result in higher casualties, although that does lead us to one important point about Word of Blake Battle Armor formations, that has a major impact upon in-game performance. When originally introduced in Field Manual: ComStar, both Blakist and ComGuards forces deployed their Battle Armor in the standard four-suit squads used across the Inner Sphere, although they both called their squads Level Is. Those Level Is are now six suits in size, which actually make Purifier units harder to completely eliminate when using direct-fire attacks than four-man units of many heavier armored designs. On a simple level, a four-man squad of Inner Sphere Standards requires 40 points to destroy, including both armor and troopers, but a six-man Level I of Purifiers requires 42 points to destroy.

     With weapons that can one-shot kill either design, such as a PPC or AC10, obviously 50% more hits are need to destroy the Level I. An IS Standard squad struck by five Medium Lasers is guaranteed to lose at least one suit, but it's possible for a Level I of Purifiers to lose none. With even lighter weapons, the trend favors the Blakist Battle Armor even more. Of course, it's not all good news for the Word and their Purifiers. Other military organizations could also chose to field six-man Battle Armor squads, but even without that simple step to rebalance the playing field, there are more weapons that can one-shot the Purifier than IS Standards. For example, the latter design can survive a single hit from a Large Laser, Large Pulse Laser or the Clans' Medium Pulse and ER Lasers, but any of those will kill a Purifier. Likewise, an entire Purifier Level I will be wiped out by a solitary Airburst shell from a 'Mech Mortar/8, which an IS Standard squad would survive, with other Area Effect weapons having similar results.

     The change to the size of the Level I Battle Armor organization can be viewed as having saved the Purifier as far as the game is concerned. Having had an inauspicious start due to the rather marginal nature of its faction, the design could have easily ended up as little more than a flavor piece, despite the promise of the Mimetic technology. Thankfully, when it got its time on stage with the coming of the Jihad, the six-suit Level I kicked the Purifier up a gear as a playing unit, increasing both durability and firepower to the point that the design could demand respect and not just admiration. To an extent, it does get overshadowed by the Word's Demon series, but they are the light that burnt twice as bright and aren't likely to survive in significant numbers beyond the Jihad, while the Purifier will keep soldiering on.

Next up:
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: Welshman on 22 December 2011, 15:55:29
I could just never get behind using these, even when the opportunity presented itself. Perhaps I've lived too long with the BT mantra that "speed is life."

If it had a real sniper weapon, like the Magshot, or even better, LRMs, it could be a true terror. As it is, it is a much better RPG suit than table top suit in my opinion.
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: jymset on 22 December 2011, 16:06:43
...says the person responsible behind making these the Republic's bread-n-butter suits... :o

:P
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: Welshman on 22 December 2011, 16:56:24
...says the person responsible behind making these the Republic's bread-n-butter suits... :o

:P

Not me... That was already set in the Dark Age novels well before my time. The mark of a good writer is when they can support something convincingly, even when they might not agree.

I think they are great for RPG and Fiction, I don't see their use on the table top.
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: LordChaos on 22 December 2011, 16:58:33
it performs FAR better under quickstrike rules.  At least, the conversions I've seen do, with the ERSL reaching to "medium" range.  (I abused some assault mechs with a couple squads of them)
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: Weirdo on 22 December 2011, 17:06:36
How does the mimetic armor convert?
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: SCC on 22 December 2011, 17:45:02
The whole jumping things isn't as bad as it looks, it would allow them to get into position quicker
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: LordChaos on 22 December 2011, 18:21:44
How does the mimetic armor convert?

We used Medron Pryde's conversions, which gave the same defensive value regardless of movement (based on the "it's best if you don't move, and degrades if you move, but it degrades at roughly the same rate that movement would give a modifier for" line of reasoning... at least, that was my understanding and memory of it).

You'd have to ask him for the details... I just used them (at first thinking "no way can this be a fair fight... battle armor vs assault mechs????".... then I realized just how tough the conversion made them)
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: Weirdo on 22 December 2011, 18:56:06
Never mind, I checked StratOps. No armor boost, but to-hit mods identical to normal play. Seems reasonable to me, and that medium range on the gun configs will make hitting them a pain in the ass without closing and exposing yourself to a leg attack or swarm.
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: sillybrit on 22 December 2011, 18:59:57
Of course, a Level I of Purifiers could have got the same BattleForce range and damage with a LRR, saving half the mass of the ERSL. (Just realized my math failed me for a moment there  :P Of course, a MRR would do it and still save mass)
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: Maelwys on 22 December 2011, 20:41:02
I've always had good luck with them. The bonus of being to drop them off with a heavy modifier means they don't have that "Okay, they're really vulnerable right now" moment  and lets them have a chance of surviving even if you can't drop them off behind a hill.

Since they still get the moment modifier, they're not limited to standing still, and people often forget that little bit of extra range with the ERSL.
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: Taurevanime on 23 December 2011, 01:16:36
I can both agree and disagree with the speed profile these suits having. For one it is wasteful for not playing into the suit's strengths. (Mimetic armour should really go to the heavier and slower designs in that sense). But it is also usefull in allowing your suits to bug out before the enemy overruns them.

Though I think you will probably get more use out of them being slower and having more armour, since 3 hexes isn't all that much of a distance when it means that they can only keep an Annihilator at range, and fail to outrun most assaults. (Though that is assuming open terrain rather than dense forests and the like)
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: Demos on 23 December 2011, 01:31:09
In my experience, BA dropped by the mechanized BA rules nearor in the middle of an enemy formation is a fire magnet, as they have a THM of '0' in the turn deployed. So they are eay to hit and to eliminate.

A Purifier (or other mimetic BAs) get a +3 THM in this turn and can be a true terror in the next turn, especially with the longer ranged ERSL or PC.
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: sillybrit on 23 December 2011, 01:52:07
^^^ Yup, as noted in the article, although depending upon the situation, I have found that not even the +3 cherry on top has been enough to keep the Purifiers from taking bad losses. If only they'd had just a little more armor to absorb more damage, then I'd be much more willing to more regularly use them in a direct assault role like my custom RAF Heavies.

I can both agree and disagree with the speed profile these suits having. For one it is wasteful for not playing into the suit's strengths. (Mimetic armour should really go to the heavier and slower designs in that sense). But it is also usefull in allowing your suits to bug out before the enemy overruns them.

If they were Heavy or Assault, I'd definitely agree with them being slower (hmm, a design niche to play with again, slow Mediums, not done that for a while... where's my HMBA), but while wasteful of the Mimetic's features in many situations, overall the Purifier needs to be 1/3J. Instead of thinking of them as too-fast Mimetic suits, think of them as troopers with the ability to go sneaky when required or the opportunity presents itself.

Really, the biggest problem with the Purifier is that main gun: 350kg for a Small Laser with just 40% more range.   :'( A hypothetical Purifier II doesn't even really need designing, just think about the initials MRR and it practically designs itself for you.

Of course, there is one advantage to the current Purifier payload that I realized I forgot to include and that was after writing myself a note about it as well.  [metalhealth] It's a perfect platform for a C3I configuration, which conveniently enough just happens to be a Word invention, entering the prototype stage just a year after the Purifier began production. One would almost think it was fate. LOL

I've found Battle Armor C3 of either flavor tends to be a little hit and miss, in part depending upon how paranoid your opponent(s) tend to be about Battle Armor during force selection. With anything like the players in my experience, then many/most times they're going to have something that's going to be very unpleasant to even stealthy hard-to-hit Battle Armor like the Purifier, but every now and then you get lucky and they didn't come tooled up for the little guys.

Getting some C3I-equipped Purifiers into some Light or Heavy Woods near the enemy would be a real evil play if they don't have anything equipped to counter the +5 or +6 hit penalty that non-infantry troops will encounter, and just like with Battle Armor equipped with Light TAG, getting closer to improve accuracy against them will only make it worse. As I've gotten to show some friends with a C3/TAG equipped custom I came up with for a RAF campaign, although the effect can be mimicked by a pair of Purifier Level Is, one with C3I and the other with the TAG.  }:) Just squat them in the same hex and have fun (and pray the enemy doesn't have Area Effect weapons).
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: Maelwys on 23 December 2011, 05:16:40
Getting some C3I-equipped Purifiers into some Light or Heavy Woods near the enemy would be a real evil play if they don't have anything equipped to counter the +5 or +6 hit penalty that non-infantry troops will encounter, and just like with Battle Armor equipped with Light TAG, getting closer to improve accuracy against them will only make it worse. As I've gotten to show some friends with a C3/TAG equipped custom I came up with for a RAF campaign, although the effect can be mimicked by a pair of Purifier Level Is, one with C3I and the other with the TAG.  }:) Just squat them in the same hex and have fun (and pray the enemy doesn't have Area Effect weapons).

Won't the conventional infantry have pretty high TNs since its mimetic and not stealth as well?

I'm sort of surprised that the Purifier never got modification, since its the mainline suit for the WoB Militia (and maybe an assault suit for the Militia).

Also one thing to keep in mind is that the pilots of Purifiers may be Manei Domini. If so, they can expect to have an extra point of armor allowing them to survive hits from Clan ERMLs and MPLs, and may be acting as part of a c3i network, while keeping their weaponry. Depending on how detailed you get, they may even more tricks up their sleeves.
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: SCC on 23 December 2011, 05:45:24
Where can these rules describing the Manei Domini be found?
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: Maelwys on 23 December 2011, 07:10:37
It depends. The most recent rules are probably the generic rules from Jihad Secrets: The Blake Documents, where each MD gives the same bonuses for whatever they're piloting. So each `MechWarrior gets the same bonuses, each BA trooper gets the same bonuses, etc.

Then in Jihad Hot Spots 3072, there's a more detailed set of creation rules which lets you pick and choose exactly which pieces of cyberware your MD has.
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: LastChanceCav on 23 December 2011, 08:46:08
I think the Purifier suffers a little from its real world introduction date. If it had been designed after the new batch of impressive 250 kg weapons (i.e, MRR or SPPC) I suspect they wouldn't have paid the price in armor to get the extra reach the ERSL provided at the time.

Cheers,
LCC
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: jymset on 23 December 2011, 09:01:48
Ah, but by that token, there were no BA construction rules at the time of the Purifier's inception.

Thus, the measly 6 points of armour were likely a deliberate in-game balancer to what was seen as very powerful offensive and special defensive capabilities.

By that token, the WoB may have started building up vs the Clans, but at the time of the Purifier's deployment, basically all its foes were Inner Sphere, so that below-threshold armour may not have felt quite as criminal.
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: Grantwhy on 23 December 2011, 09:04:21
Really, the biggest problem with the Purifier is that main gun: 350kg for a Small Laser with just 40% more range.   :'( A hypothetical Purifier II doesn't even really need designing, just think about the initials MRR and it practically designs itself for you.

or ..... if you are willing to use a fixed Magshot Gauss Rifle, you can boost the armor to 9 points (10 if you use Basic Manipulators or Armored Gloves) and do decent damage out to a good range :o (although, personally I'd go for a more .. eclectic .. choice of weapons/equipment)


ps: while not given an affect in game, the smoke caused by firing a Recoilless Rifle should(?) make it an unlikely choice of weapon for a 'stealthy' suit like the Purifier?
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: Maelwys on 23 December 2011, 09:26:53
Thus, the measly 6 points of armour were likely a deliberate in-game balancer to what was seen as very powerful offensive and special defensive capabilities.

By that token, the WoB may have started building up vs the Clans, but at the time of the Purifier's deployment, basically all its foes were Inner Sphere, so that below-threshold armour may not have felt quite as criminal.

I dunno, I think it has possibilities. If they were thinking about using the design to go up against other BA more often than `Mechs, then it makes sense, IS or Clans. They just have to hunker down and hope to survive the SRM barrage from Clan suits, and then they have the range advantage over the standard Elemental. They also have the range against the majority of IS opponents, so the lower armor value works out against other BA...until you run into the Support PPC/Recoilless Rifle shift that takes place later.
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: sillybrit on 23 December 2011, 10:43:11
Won't the conventional infantry have pretty high TNs since its mimetic and not stealth as well?

Yes, but the reason for the infantry proviso is that the modifiers I stated include the +1 modifier Battle Armor inflict on non-infantry attackers

ps: while not given an affect in game, the smoke caused by firing a Recoilless Rifle should(?) make it an unlikely choice of weapon for a 'stealthy' suit like the Purifier?

An ERSL is going to have a big signature as well, so there's nothing to be gained there
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: chanman on 23 December 2011, 23:33:23
Is that a Swedish triple crown on the image?
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: Taurevanime on 24 December 2011, 03:05:05
Is that a Swedish triple crown on the image?
Yes it is. I think said suit might be part of a force that was raised from modern day Sweden. It's not like the Blakists don't own earth or play into regional loyalties to get people to fight for them.
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: worktroll on 08 February 2012, 18:40:02
Not sure if this should have gone in the Fah Shih discussion or here ... but it seems to me the Purifier would make a great mine-disperser. If the BA Builder spreadsheet isn't misleading me, the Purifier should be able to fit a 2-slot mine disperser in and have 1 slot and over 200kg remaining. Jump of 3, and bonuses to staying still sound ideal for minelaying (while not useful in the same turn), and you could throw in mine dispersal gloves and a useful anti-infantry/anti-vehicle MG or Flamer.

Okay, obviously the Word didn't make'em, but does this make as much sense as it seems to do, to me?
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: Moonsword on 08 February 2012, 18:54:39
It sounds interesting, at least, but my preferred mine delivery methods involve vehicle dispensers or Thunders, so you're asking the wrong guy.
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: Sami Jumppanen on 13 February 2012, 03:14:04
A Purifier (or other mimetic BAs) get a +3 THM in this turn and can be a true terror in the next turn, especially with the longer ranged ERSL or PC.

Did Total Warfare remove that +1 modifier that BA squad used to get? Or is everyone just leaving it out as it isn't realy relevant when comparing BA to BA? Or have i misunderstoor something?
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: Moonsword on 13 February 2012, 12:38:45
As far as I know, they're leaving it out, although to be specific that modifier only applies to units other than infantry.  BA and conventional infantry don't have to deal with that penalty.
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: Empyrus on 16 May 2016, 19:52:30
Gotta raise this from dead to ask: Are we ever gonna get overview for Purifier Terra?
Quick look at its stats and XTRO entry implies it is basically little more than an Elemental without HarJel so perhaps there's not much to cover.

I do wonder about its origin though... makes me wonder about the Wolverine-theory..


EDIT Oh, right. The reason for asking? I happen to like reading about Battle Armors... so, kinda sorry about begging asking for more.
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: Maelwys on 16 May 2016, 20:37:16
I don't really see why it would make you wonder about the Wolverine theory. Elemental Battle Armor came into existence decades after the Wolverines were kicked out. They wouldn't have any particular knowledge or advancement for BA that ComStar didn't already have, just from having Nighthawks and Tornadoes.

And you hit the nail on the head. The Purifier Terra is what happens when you drop the HarJel and missiles and dedicate the weight freed up to equipping heavier weapons. The new loadout allows you to use heavier Clantech weapons that allow the Purifier Terra to out distance the original basic Elemental loadout.

The downside of course is that the basic Elemental can match your longest range loadout (the APGR) and still has its missiles to add damage.

Basically this is just an example of what you can do when you utilize Clantech for everything but the Chassis, and save weight that way :)

The storyline of Terra sort of annoys me, but I think the unstat'd Police variant could've been interesting.
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: mbear on 17 May 2016, 07:14:06
Basically this is just an example of what you can do when you utilize Clantech for everything but the Chassis, and save weight that way :)
Sort of like the Gray Death Surat suit from XTRO:Republic I?
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: False Son on 17 May 2016, 08:39:56
The storyline of Terra sort of annoys me, but I think the unstat'd Police variant could've been interesting.

I'm curious as to why.

It hits all the points to me.  Cynically mixed tech, Stone, stashed away for unknown purposes lending some additional cred to the viability of Fortress Republic.
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: sillybrit on 17 May 2016, 11:34:58
I have vague recollections of discussing the Phantom suits with jymset, including the Police stats, but I can't recall why we've held off on them. There may be a reason, so I'll limit this purely to an analysis of the design.

There's not really much that can be said about the Terra. In terms of mobility, it's as vanilla for a medium as you can get: 1 ground, 3 jump, move along, move along, nothing to see here. Its armor is top tier alongside the Elemental and Amazon, but lacks any bonuses; no stealth, no damage adjustment. At one time the armor would have been a major feature, but this is the post-Dark Age era, and even 10-point mediums are edging towards meh.

The APGR is the APGR is the APGR. It's the battle armor weapon par excellence, and is the armament you'll use 80% of the time. The ER laser you'll use 15% of the time, for those occasions where you don't care about infantry and value 2 points of extra damage over 3 hexes less range; perhaps ideal for urban or forest knife fights with little or no PBI presence, or if you're a fan of swarming.

The pulse laser instead swaps accuracy for range. The APGR will match its accuracy at certain ranges, but otherwise it might find use if you're using really crap troops or you're fighting stealthy foes or have some other reason to worry about target numbers. The recoilless rifle does nothing the APGR or pulse laser can't do or better, while the ER laser swaps damage for anti-infantry capability. Only filthy hipsters use the recoilless rifle.

The armament needs more cowbell, and while I understand the inclusion of the recoilless rifle, its slot would have been better occupied by a heavy flamer, leaving no useless mouths. The Bearhunter would have also been ideal, giving the suit a token dubious weapon, but one that's still Clantech with a definable role and signature flavor. A LBX would be possible, but seriously overegging the pudding in my opinion, since it would have given the Terra every decent Clan gun 400kg or less.

Without the Amazon and without Clantech becoming so common, it's possible to be a lot more enthused about the Terra. I also dislike that the Terra cannot be matched by a purely Clantech suit due to one component 'invented' by the Inner Sphere nearly a century ago in universe. I've railed against the mixed tech situation vis-à-vis chassis weights in numerous BAotW threads, so I'm not going to repeat that here. For me, the Terra isn't an example of a superb battlesuit design, it's a superb example of what is wrong with mixed tech.

Tarte au citron.
 
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: UnLimiTeD on 17 May 2016, 12:02:32
I don't get that one.
Given that in-universe, a battlesuit wouldn't immediately expire in water, and closing gaps will have certain advantages in hostile environments, I have absolutely no problem with Clan suits incorporating Harjel and IS suits... not. Doesn't the clan suit have a medkit, too?
Sure, there are a few suits now that are plainly better mixed tech than pure clan equivalents (On the CBT battlefield!), but so are certain IS weapons in very specific niches. Well, they have the niche all to themselves. The timeline progresses, clanspec can't stay plainly better forever.
Would you feel better if a damaged IS suit would take bonus damage from gas attacks or need less Infernos to kill? Then it'd have a rules expression and still make no real difference.

I would assume that, if the difference in detailed capabilities stays, suits munching it up like that would be very rare in the future as Harjel obviously does have logistic and combat advantages often enough, for the suits and troopers you're willing to invest in clan spec weapons or armour.
I'd be a lot more annoyed at the very existence of APGRs.

Edit: Rereading my post it sounds slightly cranky. I will revisit it upon my headache subsiding. Edit2: That doesn't seem to happen any time soon. Apparently no one took offence anyways.
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: mbear on 17 May 2016, 12:50:21
I have absolutely no problem with Clan suits incorporating Harjel and IS suits... not. Doesn't the clan suit have a medkit, too?
Sure, there are a few suits now that are plainly better mixed tech than pure clan equivalents (On the CBT battlefield!), but so are certain IS weapons in very specific niches. Well, they have the niche all to themselves. The timeline progresses, clanspec can't stay plainly better forever.
Would you feel better if a damaged IS suit would take bonus damage from gas attacks or need less Infernos to kill? Then it'd have a rules expression and still make no real difference.

How about the Clan spec chassis "trooper" dot being replaced by two dots? That way the Harjel/medkit of the Clan suit has more of an effect, but it's not game breaking. (The first dot means the trooper is only mostly dead. )
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: sillybrit on 17 May 2016, 13:20:47
How about the Clan spec chassis "trooper" dot being replaced by two dots? That way the Harjel/medkit of the Clan suit has more of an effect, but it's not game breaking. (The first dot means the trooper is only mostly dead. )

As a house ruled method to give Clan chassis a clear and constant advantage instead of just niche advantages, that would be workable. As a canon fix, in my opinion it would impact the in-game stats of too many designs, changing their performance, which may not be acceptable to all players.

Given my druthers, I'd change the chassis masses for both Clan and IS, make Harjel a separate component (but one that the Clans always add to their suits) and adjust IS armor masses to compensate for the chassis change. The construction stats change for most suits, but their in-game stats do not.
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: Maelwys on 17 May 2016, 16:39:58
I'm curious as to why.

It hits all the points to me.  Cynically mixed tech, Stone, stashed away for unknown purposes lending some additional cred to the viability of Fortress Republic.

Its mostly the "See, the WoB was so bad assed that they were producing Clantech, aren't they such a big threat" followed by "But not in any appreciable form that really matters." It just seems to fit a pattern of the Jihad that rather meh'd me. "Look how scary the WoB is, rargh!" followed by "but not really."
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: Maingunnery on 17 May 2016, 16:50:22
Given my druthers, I'd change the chassis masses for both Clan and IS, make Harjel a separate component (but one that the Clans always add to their suits) and adjust IS armor masses to compensate for the chassis change. The construction stats change for most suits, but their in-game stats do not.
I would love that.
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: Colt Ward on 20 May 2016, 21:47:38
See I just wonder why Warden Wolf and Nova Cat BA were not using Magshots back in the FCCW days . . . especially since the Void NC uses the MagShot, coming out before the APGR.
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: Maelwys on 21 May 2016, 00:42:40
Probably because of the critical requirements, which means that Medium BA can't use it in the arm if it has a modular mount.

Not to mention as a FedSuns design, why would the Wolves and Nova Cats have access to it?
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: Colt Ward on 21 May 2016, 00:50:17
Well, the Nova Cats had access to it when building the Void, or refitting their portion of the Voids produced.

Throw in that IIRC the pro-Vic side of the FCCW had access to the system- like the ARDC forces.  From what I can find it takes up the same number of slots as the APGR.  I could also see the Raging Horde wanting it before the APGR became available.
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: Maelwys on 21 May 2016, 01:53:26
Check TechManual. Unless there's been errata, the Magshot takes up 3 slots, and the APGR takes up 2 slots. That's why you don't see any of the IS Standard-like suits (Standard, Cavalier, Raiden, etc) mounting Magshots, because they can't fit it in an arm that has a modular mount.

The Void (Nova Cat) debuts after the Jihad, when the factional tech restriction was loosened quite a bit. Combine it being a "FedSuns" product, along with it being too big to fit in the modular mount on an Elemental suit, and its not surprising that the MagShot wasn't used by Clans, since it would require a whole new design to use. When the Void came around, they were able to fit the MagShot into the LA because there was no modular mount there, and it was hardwired in, much like on the Infiltrator Mk II.
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: Colt Ward on 21 May 2016, 02:06:33
What I found on Sarna said 2 but . . . I pulled out the BA maker Excel sheet and it says 3 as well.

A whole new design?  Eh, just a new arm.  Like I said, pretty sure it was deployed with the ARDC and as the Warden Wolves were against Katherine . . .

Anyway, Purifiers can be fun . . . I also think they are one of the few MWDA minis that are not too much larger than the TT version.
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: sillybrit on 21 May 2016, 02:33:26
There's been no errata, the Magshot is still 3 slots. Sarna just needs to fact check a little more.

As per IO, the Magshot became commonly available in 3060, the year after it entered production in the Suns. It could have appeared on a lot more non-Suns battlesuit designs, but it doesn't because reasons.
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: Maelwys on 21 May 2016, 03:00:33
Sarna is fine in this case. The stats he's looking at are for the Battlemech version. Though I'm not sure that the BA stats are on Sarna. :)

One thing that I'm rather curious about, and the Purifier Terra sort of brought it back to mind...If there aren't factories for the armor (after all, the writeup makes sure to explain it every other way as well), what if the idea of Clans selling to the WoB was right?

Might be a fun plotline if it came out that the Diamond Sharks were selling to the WoB during the Jihad.
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: sillybrit on 21 May 2016, 08:41:59
Sarna is fine in this case. The stats he's looking at are for the Battlemech version. Though I'm not sure that the BA stats are on Sarna. :)

No, Sarna is incorrect. There's a separate page for the battle armor version of the Magshot (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Magshot_Gauss_Rifle_(Battle_Armor)) and it currently states 2 slots.

Quote
One thing that I'm rather curious about, and the Purifier Terra sort of brought it back to mind...If there aren't factories for the armor (after all, the writeup makes sure to explain it every other way as well), what if the idea of Clans selling to the WoB was right?

No idea, the fluff gives enough wiggle room, but seems to lean towards the existence of factories given the note about the G17 as well. The production facility could have been workshop-sized given how few of the two mixed suits were encountered, and a planet is a big place to hide such a facility.
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: jklantern on 21 May 2016, 08:44:55
Since I don't know jack about Battle Armor, my judgment on what is a good and not good battle armor is hazy.  That said, this is one suit that, conceptually, I always liked the idea of, and it's probably my single unit the WoB ever came out with (again, conceptually), along with one of my favorite Battle Armor Designs.  Unfortunately, I'm neither a huge Republic or WoB fan, so yeah...
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: Empyrus on 21 May 2016, 09:16:23
WoB HPGs not silly enough for jklantern?


If i had to choose one favorite medium (IS) battle armor, i'd probably say the Purifier. I really find this suit interesting and unique. ER Small Laser, a rare weapon for BAs. The first user of Mimetic Armor.  Combine with interesting looks and oddly sub-par armor, it is just somehow very appealing.
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: Colt Ward on 21 May 2016, 10:27:00
. . . with one of my favorite Battle Armor Designs.  Unfortunately, I'm neither a huge Republic or WoB fan, so yeah...

Then good news for you!  The suit seems to be everywhere in the 3140s!  IIRC the Operation Hammerfall novel arc it had a few suits showing up in both Lyran and proto-state League hands.  I think even some of the single world entities had Purifiers!  I know the Republic's micro/pirate factions had it, which also means it ended back up their sponsor's hands.  I think the Capellans had it when they were introduced.

Just checked . . . every micro-faction except Steel Wolves had it.  Houses Davion and Liao had the Purifier along with the Clans Jade Falcon and Crusader Wolves.  The Spirit Cats had minis of it twice and so did mercenaries.

To me this means it is still in production, perhaps widespread production.
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: Empyrus on 21 May 2016, 11:28:34
Curious that a Blakist battle armor would spread so far. Though perhaps that it was seen as useful enough (Mimetic armor) and lacking the extremely negative reputation of Manei Domini equipment were enough to keep it production.
And of course, the fact the Republic adopted it (they probably captured factories on Terra that produced it) may have prompted everyone to think "this is fine, not evil".

Of course, Master Unit List makes no mention of the armor's availability post-Jihad, just "to be announced", so it could be spread around in very limited quantities.

EDIT Per FM3145 RATs, the Purifier is only available for the Republic. Of course, the RATS are not comprehensive. This makes me wonder if the Purifiers in hands of non-Republic nations were due to False-Flag ops...
Title: Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
Post by: mbear on 23 May 2016, 08:00:38
No, Sarna is incorrect. There's a separate page for the battle armor version of the Magshot (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Magshot_Gauss_Rifle_(Battle_Armor)) and it currently states 2 slots.

That's been fixed now to show the correct 3 slots.