Author Topic: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!  (Read 194774 times)

rebs

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 15655
  • Et tu, Brute?
Perhaps the assumption that the ilClanship is as simple as it has been professed?  You really think all the Clans are going to fall in lock step just because Alaric takes Terra?

Assuming that he does...

Really?

The IlClan premise is rather straight forward like that, and I have no other information to lead me to think that PeaceTech was going to break out on Terra after Alaric Ward Steiner Davion claims suzerainty over the other Clans, as indicated by the "IlKhan for life" part of the IlClan in-universe concept. 

And I so have been looking forward to the struggle to come. 
« Last Edit: 22 October 2015, 07:04:49 by rebs »
Playing Guitar On My YouTube Channel:
Current cover tune: "The Wind Cries Mary" (by Jimi Hendrix)
https://youtu.be/m6a8wZiCsjM?si=0w7tVOgk7yylNv6a

"Thou shalt not create a machine in the image of the human mind." ~ The Orange Catholic Bible, Dune, Frank Herbert

rebs

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 15655
  • Et tu, Brute?
Walked the niece to school.  Walking is good for me and my thoughts, I think I mentioned that somewhere...  ;D

Alaric Ward may not come to Terra thinking of claiming the mantle of the IlClan for his Wolves.  But if Malvina decides that that must be what he's going to do, then it does not matter.  The IlClan struggle is on because it only takes one unhinged person to want to control everything to make everyone's life a living hell through war.

This is just one possible example. 

All I'm saying is I don't think the IlClanship is going to be just a race towards Terra.  It will be the greed and ambition of human beings that throw everyone else into war due to the laws of competition and instable personalities who hold power.
Playing Guitar On My YouTube Channel:
Current cover tune: "The Wind Cries Mary" (by Jimi Hendrix)
https://youtu.be/m6a8wZiCsjM?si=0w7tVOgk7yylNv6a

"Thou shalt not create a machine in the image of the human mind." ~ The Orange Catholic Bible, Dune, Frank Herbert

False Son

  • BattleTech Volunteer
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6461
  • Kot Blini
All I'm saying is I don't think the IlClanship is going to be just a race towards Terra.  It will be the greed and ambition of human beings that throw everyone else into war due to the laws of competition and instable personalities who hold power.

Just saying, being proud of a victory that has yet to be detailed is getting ahead of yourselves, Wolves.  Things might not turn out as glamorous as some people might believe.

Now every one try not to get swept out to sea on my vague wave.
TOYNBEE IDEA
IN MOViE `2001
RESURRECT DEAD
ON PLANET JUPITER


Destroy what destroys you

SteveRestless

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5298
Just saying, being proud of a victory that has yet to be detailed is getting ahead of yourselves, Wolves.  Things might not turn out as glamorous as some people might believe.

Now every one try not to get swept out to sea on my vague wave.

Here's the thing. We've been left hanging on the edge of a narrative cliff for years now. It's been ages since the last big plot book came out. The flesh has been stripped from the bones, the bones have been cracked for their marrow, and we're left hungry. Speculation is about all anyone following the most current plot has at this point.

If I comment that "Wow, the Orion IIc is a 9 on the republic RAT in Capellan Crusades" it'll dissolve into an argument over how seriously one is supposed to take the RATs, rather than pursuing the more interesting tangent of "wtf is the republic doing with that many Orion IIcs when they've been a prestige-only ride in the wolves for ages." If I try and speculate on what the road to, and conquest of Terra might be like, it dissolves into arguments over whether the plot is even headed that direction or not, or whether it'll be glorious (and I'd argue that even if it leads to the total destruction of the wolves, that the warriors of the clans who do not fear death can seek no better a fate than dying in pursuit of holy Terra)...

and I'm left wondering, what would you have us do? Sit quietly and discuss nothing, let the thread languish without a peep? navelgaze over eras already in the bag? lament for the thirtieth time that the wolves are missing a good native-built medium omni?

No.

I want to hear what people think it WILL be like, fighting on the way in. What planets between the edge of the empire, and the glorious jewel of Terra will be the hardest to crack, what worthy spoils might await along the way. What do people think the fighting on Terra itsself will be like. Should things go like I'm anticipating, will we be facing both the falcons and the capellan confederation, or will the capellans be happy enough to see the republic shattered, and their ancestral holdings in their hands again?

Will mutual conflict against the CapCon strengthen the peace between an Empire that holds Terra and the Free Worlds League, or will there be strife on all borders?

Frankly, I personally look at the issue of the other clans not as "What other clans can be made to submit, once we take Terra?" but as "What other clans should we allow to join us in pursuit of a Third Star League?" "Who among the sphere clans is even worthy of this honor?" After all, Nicholas Kerensky did not found the clans by sheer force, he built them out of those WILLING to follow his vision.

THAT is the sort of conversation I'd like to see. Well, I'd like to discuss that Orion IIc thing too, but only if it doesn't dissolve into "RATs don't mean anything"
Шонхорын хурдаар хурцлан давшъя, Чонын зоригоор асан дүрэлзэье, Тэнхээт морьдын туурайгаар нүргэе, Тамгат Чингисийн ухаанаар даръя | Let’s go faster than a falcon, Let’s burn with the wolf’s courage, Let’s roar with the hooves of strong horses, Let’s go with the wisdom of Tamgat Genghis - The Hu, Wolf Totem

Kitsune413

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5324
  • Diamond Khanate Sakhan
The biggest part is cognitive dissonance. If you are a Wolf Fan you want to win Ilclan. You want to win.

If you are a Jade Falcon maybe you don't expect to win. It isn't like they have have ever been painted as a winning faction. But you don't want to lose and the Wolves winning Terra is like losing so you don't want that to happen.

If you are one of the two republic fans you don't want the Republic to die. So there is a good reason to not want Wolf players to jump to conclusions.

I remember once after Ben Rome's April fools outline came out someone asked me if Clan Sea Fox becoming the Merchant Caste for the Star Adders wouldn't be a good thing. Because you remember all of those times you deployed on the battlefield as an entirely merchant force in battletech.

People have got to square things in their own heads... and they will redo it once the real facts are out too. I wish the book would just come out soon so we could all fake war eachother. Then go through all of this again for whatever book was after that.
Every man lives by exchanging - Adam Smith

Kitsune413

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5324
  • Diamond Khanate Sakhan
From coming soon:
Quote
IlClan
The ilClan is a campaign-driven overview of the universe-spanning conflict that will see the fall of The Republic of the Sphere and the final conclusion of the Dark Age era. The founding of the ilClan heralds the start of a new age for the BattleTech universe—one that will forever transform the Inner Sphere and Clans alike!


The Republic definitely falls... and the wolves are definitely anecdotally on Terra.

So without the home clans swooping in that kind of leaves it down to three or four suspects.

Tukayyid 2.0! (Hazen vs Harwell! Cage match! Buy a savage wolf!)
Every man lives by exchanging - Adam Smith

Knightmare

  • BattleTech Developer
  • System Admin
  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 553
  • Wrench'in it
    • BattleTech.com
I complete forgot about that line. Hmm...now I wonder who the Republic falls to. Given the authors of the ilClan, my money isn't on one of the Inner Sphere Clans.
BeemerCon Summarized. Knightmare, end of turn: "How come none of my weapons fired?"
Look, dude, when you are a real mechwarrior you don't need to get all dressed up in cooling suits and cool helmets to work on your mech. You just strip down to your 1980s panties and crop top vest and start wrenchin' it.
Yen Lo Wang = David Lo Pan

Kitsune413

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5324
  • Diamond Khanate Sakhan
I complete forgot about that line. Hmm...now I wonder who the Republic falls to. Given the authors of the ilClan, my money isn't on one of the Inner Sphere Clans.

We all know that Alaric isn't the only one with a conspicuous origin. Devlin Stone for Ilkhan for life! Clan Wolverine!
Every man lives by exchanging - Adam Smith

Natasha Kerensky

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3437
  • Queen of Spades, First Lady of Death, Black Widow
I want to hear what people think it WILL be like, fighting on the way in. What planets between the edge of the empire, and the glorious jewel of Terra will be the hardest to crack, what worthy spoils might await along the way.

Using FM3145 to estimate the number of mechs on each side shows that the Wolves and Republic are either evenly matched or that the Wolves enjoy a large (but not overwhelming) advantage.

The Republic has the following number of mech battalions:

Hastati Sentinels: 7 brigades x 3 mech battalions = 21 mech battalions
Principes Guards:  6 bridades x 2 mech battalions = 12 mech battalions
Triarii Protectors:  5 brigades x 1 mech battalion = 5 mech battalions
Stone's Brigade:  6 brigades x 3 mech battalions = 18 mech battalions
Total Republic = 56 mech battalions

And depending on how many mechs per battalion, the Republic fields ~2000-2500 mechs.

36 mechs per battalion = 2016 mechs total
40 mechs per battalion = 2240 mechs total
40 mechs per battalion plus regimental command companies = 2528 mechs total

The Wolves have 75 clusters, and depending on the average number of mechs per cluster, field 2200-3800 mechs.

75 clusters x 30 mechs per cluster = 2250 mechs total
75 clusters x 45 mechs per cluster = 3375 mechs total
75 clusters x 50 mechs per cluster = 3750 mechs total

So at the lower end of each side's range, the Republic and Wolves are evenly matched (at least in mechs in 3145).  But if the Wolves are back to traditional mech numbers in their clusters, they could outnumber the Republic in mechs by almost 2:1.

This is admittedly a gross analysis that doesn't take into account other forces (aerospace, conventional).  But it does show that just one of the large Clans (Wolf, Falcon, or Bear) knocking on the Republic's doorstep could take on the Republic by itself, although it could be a hard-fought war.  If multiple Clans join, though, it appears that the Republic will fall quickly.

Quote
Frankly, I personally look at the issue of the other clans not as "What other clans can be made to submit, once we take Terra?" but as "What other clans should we allow to join us in pursuit of a Third Star League?" "Who among the sphere clans is even worthy of this honor?" After all, Nicholas Kerensky did not found the clans by sheer force, he built them out of those WILLING to follow his vision.

Most Clans have subfactions that could join a drive on Terra for one reason or another.  Most of the Horses are probably fed up with Malvina, and there is an element within the Falcons that has tried to depose her.  The Bears' Omega Galaxy arguably has an interest in the Republic and a border to secure when Fortress comes down.  And Fox Khanates could be bought.  Only the Ravens don't have a useful internal division that comes to mind.

Similarly, the Republic could bring some allies to bear, too, like the Northwind Highlanders, the Fidelis, the Remnant, and maybe some FedRat commands. 

Quote
What do people think the fighting on Terra itsself will be like.

Herb once wrote in a BattleChat that Terra will be depopulated at some point in the BT timeline.  The creation of the ilClan could be the precipitating event, which might indicate that the battle for Terra will be devastating.  Or it could just mean that native Terrans don't want to live under the ilClan's boot and leave for elsewhere.  Or the depopulating event could be the end of the ilClan.

"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

SteveRestless

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5298
Using FM3145 to estimate the number of mechs on each side shows that the Wolves and Republic are either evenly matched or that the Wolves enjoy a large (but not overwhelming) advantage.

This is admittedly a gross analysis that doesn't take into account other forces (aerospace, conventional).  But it does show that just one of the large Clans (Wolf, Falcon, or Bear) knocking on the Republic's doorstep could take on the Republic by itself, although it could be a hard-fought war.  If multiple Clans join, though, it appears that the Republic will fall quickly.

I don't see the bears leaping in, They're happy playing house in Rasalhague from what I can tell. If they wanted Terra still, I think they'd already be there. The Falcons might, but they might also have some Horses to deal with. And by themselves, the horses don't really have an avenue to assault the republic from.

Still, the Republic is going to neCed more than parity to hold the Wolf at bay. The biggest threat to the wolves holdings, other than the RAF itsself, are the Falcons. Meanwhile, the Republic... well basically the only neighbors they have who aren't slavering for their life's blood are the Ghost Bears and the Federated Suns. The Republic has a rough troop parity with the Empire, but the Empire doesn't also have the Combine and Confederation gunning for them. This says to me that the elite of the Empire can be brought to focus on targets while the Republic's defenses are pressed from numerous sides

Most Clans have subfactions that could join a drive on Terra for one reason or another.  Most of the Horses are probably fed up with Malvina, and there is an element within the Falcons that has tried to depose her.  The Bears' Omega Galaxy arguably has an interest in the Republic and a border to secure when Fortress comes down.  And Fox Khanates could be bought.  Only the Ravens don't have a useful internal division that comes to mind.

What I was referring to, was less "inviting clans to join the attack on terra" but a matter for after Terra is taken. I do not think any clan is going to want to share the battle for terra. I think it'll be more of a question of who's fighting them for the chance, and will the Capellans be a threat.

Herb once wrote in a BattleChat that Terra will be depopulated at some point in the BT timeline.  The creation of the ilClan could be the precipitating event, which might indicate that the battle for Terra will be devastating.  Or it could just mean that native Terrans don't want to live under the ilClan's boot and leave for elsewhere.  Or the depopulating event could be the end of the ilClan.

Hm. That's unfortunate if true.

Given the authors of the ilClan, my money isn't on one of the Inner Sphere Clans.

then why invest two gencon features in depicting the Wolves on Terra?
Шонхорын хурдаар хурцлан давшъя, Чонын зоригоор асан дүрэлзэье, Тэнхээт морьдын туурайгаар нүргэе, Тамгат Чингисийн ухаанаар даръя | Let’s go faster than a falcon, Let’s burn with the wolf’s courage, Let’s roar with the hooves of strong horses, Let’s go with the wisdom of Tamgat Genghis - The Hu, Wolf Totem

Knightmare

  • BattleTech Developer
  • System Admin
  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 553
  • Wrench'in it
    • BattleTech.com
A massive misdirect.  }:)

Honestly, I'd be pretty happy to see Terra depopulated. She's been fought over enough. She could use a respite.
BeemerCon Summarized. Knightmare, end of turn: "How come none of my weapons fired?"
Look, dude, when you are a real mechwarrior you don't need to get all dressed up in cooling suits and cool helmets to work on your mech. You just strip down to your 1980s panties and crop top vest and start wrenchin' it.
Yen Lo Wang = David Lo Pan

SteveRestless

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5298
A massive misdirect.  }:)

Meh, believe it when I see it. I'd buy one gencon of it, but not two. and not with the like... seven other reasons I listed upthread.

Honestly, I'd be pretty happy to see Terra depopulated. She's been fought over enough. She could use a respite.

It's a wargame. What else are people going to do over a unique objective? join hands around it and sing?
Шонхорын хурдаар хурцлан давшъя, Чонын зоригоор асан дүрэлзэье, Тэнхээт морьдын туурайгаар нүргэе, Тамгат Чингисийн ухаанаар даръя | Let’s go faster than a falcon, Let’s burn with the wolf’s courage, Let’s roar with the hooves of strong horses, Let’s go with the wisdom of Tamgat Genghis - The Hu, Wolf Totem

Kitsune413

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5324
  • Diamond Khanate Sakhan
It's a wargame. What else are people going to do over a unique objective? join hands around it and sing?

I'll sell it to you...
Every man lives by exchanging - Adam Smith

Kitsune413

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5324
  • Diamond Khanate Sakhan
In the Novels when the Wolf Empire sets up their feint the other clans follow suit to actually prepare to take Terra.

The Ghost Bears and the Falcons are competing.

The Ravens and the Hells Horses are the ones who can't get there without some crazy explanation.

Clan Sea Fox can get there. But do we want to?
Every man lives by exchanging - Adam Smith

rebs

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 15655
  • Et tu, Brute?
I'll sell it to you...

"Face to face - with the man who sold the world"
Playing Guitar On My YouTube Channel:
Current cover tune: "The Wind Cries Mary" (by Jimi Hendrix)
https://youtu.be/m6a8wZiCsjM?si=0w7tVOgk7yylNv6a

"Thou shalt not create a machine in the image of the human mind." ~ The Orange Catholic Bible, Dune, Frank Herbert

Rtifs

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 554
…So at the lower end of each side's range, the Republic and Wolves are evenly matched (at least in mechs in 3145).  But if the Wolves are back to traditional mech numbers in their clusters, they could outnumber the Republic in mechs by almost 2:1.

This is admittedly a gross analysis that doesn't take into account other forces (aerospace, conventional).  But it does show that just one of the large Clans (Wolf, Falcon, or Bear) knocking on the Republic's doorstep could take on the Republic by itself, although it could be a hard-fought war.  If multiple Clans join, though, it appears that the Republic will fall quickly.

Herb once wrote in a BattleChat that Terra will be depopulated at some point in the BT timeline.  The creation of the ilClan could be the precipitating event, which might indicate that the battle for Terra will be devastating.  Or it could just mean that native Terrans don't want to live under the ilClan's boot and leave for elsewhere.  Or the depopulating event could be the end of the ilClan.

But the Wolves won’t bring all their clusters to bear.  So in practice, in a one-on-one fight they would probably be at a numerical disadvantage.  But the Republic is going to be hit from every direction at once, so it will fight at a huge disadvantage. 

As for Terra being depopulated.  I’m not sure I understand the fascination CGL has with apocalyptic wars.  When I first got into Battletech I just saw Terra as an unimportant neutral planet.  Everything important happened elsewhere.  I don’t think Terra needs to be glassed to return to that status. 

rebs

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 15655
  • Et tu, Brute?
As for Terra being depopulated.  I’m not sure I understand the fascination CGL has with apocalyptic wars.  When I first got into Battletech I just saw Terra as an unimportant neutral planet.  Everything important happened elsewhere.  I don’t think Terra needs to be glassed to return to that status.

Terra *is* a trap.  But everyone slowly forgets that dynamic, allowing Terra to feed every few centuries.
Playing Guitar On My YouTube Channel:
Current cover tune: "The Wind Cries Mary" (by Jimi Hendrix)
https://youtu.be/m6a8wZiCsjM?si=0w7tVOgk7yylNv6a

"Thou shalt not create a machine in the image of the human mind." ~ The Orange Catholic Bible, Dune, Frank Herbert

Natasha Kerensky

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3437
  • Queen of Spades, First Lady of Death, Black Widow
But the Wolves won’t bring all their clusters to bear. 

Hard to say.  The Wolves have pulled up stakes for greener pastures before, and they could do so again.  Once Fortress comes down, the Wolves could abandon their Empire and put all their chits on taking over the Republic and Terra.  Especially if they can have access to Fox arcship manufacturing for replacing/resupplying war material.

And even if the Wolves hold onto their current Empire, with the Lyrans on the ropes, the Leaguers fighting each other, and the likelihood that some or all of the Horses will go after the Falcons, the Wolves may not need to leave much behind to garrison their rear border.

Quote
I don’t think Terra needs to be glassed to return to that status.

Herb did not explain how or when Terra becomes depopulated or even whether that means just a downturn in the total population or a complete abandonment of the planet.  So it doesn't necessarily mean massive WMDs, but that's certainly a possible implication.  (And no way to know whether that event is even still part of a future story arc.)

"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Kitsune413

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5324
  • Diamond Khanate Sakhan
Doesn't make a lot of sense to help someone be in tactical command of your war tribe. Maybe tlwe would help the Wolves if we could get considerable concessions out of it. But they would have to be quite considerable concessions.

Every man lives by exchanging - Adam Smith

Kitsune413

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5324
  • Diamond Khanate Sakhan
I hope Clan Wolf sends Merchant Xzibit to negotiate that deal,

Quote from:
"Yo, Clan Sea Fox. I heard you do not want any body to be the boss of you? But how about you give us big boats to conquer the earth so that we can be the boss of you?"
Every man lives by exchanging - Adam Smith

SteveRestless

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5298
Again, I doubt Clan Wolf is going to want direct assistance in the martial part of any such campaign to take Terra. If the foxes DO play a role, i bet you it will be a logistical/mercantile one, same as doing business with anyone else.

If you don't conquer it by yourself, you're not the ilClan. There can be only one.
Шонхорын хурдаар хурцлан давшъя, Чонын зоригоор асан дүрэлзэье, Тэнхээт морьдын туурайгаар нүргэе, Тамгат Чингисийн ухаанаар даръя | Let’s go faster than a falcon, Let’s burn with the wolf’s courage, Let’s roar with the hooves of strong horses, Let’s go with the wisdom of Tamgat Genghis - The Hu, Wolf Totem

Kitsune413

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5324
  • Diamond Khanate Sakhan
*sighs* Merchant Factor Xzibit. Come on wolves. I deserve far more laughs than I'm getting over here... should I start trading for them? ;D
Every man lives by exchanging - Adam Smith

SteveRestless

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5298
What can I say, it's a sohlama meme ;) Try it on the second-line forces.

I am in the market for some fast medium omnis though...
Шонхорын хурдаар хурцлан давшъя, Чонын зоригоор асан дүрэлзэье, Тэнхээт морьдын туурайгаар нүргэе, Тамгат Чингисийн ухаанаар даръя | Let’s go faster than a falcon, Let’s burn with the wolf’s courage, Let’s roar with the hooves of strong horses, Let’s go with the wisdom of Tamgat Genghis - The Hu, Wolf Totem

Kitsune413

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5324
  • Diamond Khanate Sakhan
You had better win the next trial of possession for naming rights...

If you will excuse me I'm going to go sell some medium omni-mechs in the shape of a bird to clan jade falcon. (They love that. You can sell them anything as long as it's bird shaped.)
Every man lives by exchanging - Adam Smith

SteveRestless

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5298
Scratch that. No longer in the market for new medium omnis.

Mmmm. Delicious Skinwalker.
Шонхорын хурдаар хурцлан давшъя, Чонын зоригоор асан дүрэлзэье, Тэнхээт морьдын туурайгаар нүргэе, Тамгат Чингисийн ухаанаар даръя | Let’s go faster than a falcon, Let’s burn with the wolf’s courage, Let’s roar with the hooves of strong horses, Let’s go with the wisdom of Tamgat Genghis - The Hu, Wolf Totem

Kitsune413

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5324
  • Diamond Khanate Sakhan
Is that from the XTRO?
Every man lives by exchanging - Adam Smith

SteveRestless

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5298
Is that from the XTRO?

It is. and it is OBSCENE.
Шонхорын хурдаар хурцлан давшъя, Чонын зоригоор асан дүрэлзэье, Тэнхээт морьдын туурайгаар нүргэе, Тамгат Чингисийн ухаанаар даръя | Let’s go faster than a falcon, Let’s burn with the wolf’s courage, Let’s roar with the hooves of strong horses, Let’s go with the wisdom of Tamgat Genghis - The Hu, Wolf Totem

Natasha Kerensky

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3437
  • Queen of Spades, First Lady of Death, Black Widow
Doesn't make a lot of sense to help someone be in tactical command of your war tribe.

No command assumed, tactical or otherwise.  Just a deal to move these Fox arcships into position behind that Wolf invasion force over there and dedicate the bulk of their output to that Wolf invasion force over the next XX months.  Do that, and if the Wolf Empire succeeds in toppling the Republic, taking Terra and becoming ilClan, Clan Sea Fox gets the former Republic planets of A, B, C and X, Y, Z.  (Or something like that.)

Quote
But they would have to be quite considerable concessions.

No doubt.
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Kitsune413

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5324
  • Diamond Khanate Sakhan
Doesn't make any sense. The only reason for Clan Sea Fox to help Clan Wolf is if it seems like Clan Wolf will inevitably succeed at becoming Ilclan and that being Ilclan would have some semblance of power behind it.

In that situation then trying to get concessions to take control of Clan Wolf away makes sense.

But only in that situation. Otherwise it makes sense to try to become Ilclan yourself and actively sabotage Clan Wolves chances of success or just ignore the Ilclan entirely.
Every man lives by exchanging - Adam Smith

Natasha Kerensky

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3437
  • Queen of Spades, First Lady of Death, Black Widow
Otherwise it makes sense to try to become Ilclan yourself

I dunno.  It's not clear to me that the Foxes are motivated in that direction.  They seem to want to make a buck and exercise economic power, not conquer territory and exercise political power.

Quote
... just ignore the Ilclan entirely.

The Foxes are opportunistic.  They may ignore the ilClan when it suits them, but make deals when advantageous for them.

"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

 

Register