The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!

[wantec]

From WoR pg 65

On 10 April, the First Wolf Lancers Cluster—having made the journey from the Inner Sphere specifically for the task at hand—landed on Strana Mechty. They then gathered up and escorted the entire genetic stock of exclusive Wolf Bloodnames to their DropShip. With the help of Wolf scientists, the Blood Chapels and the master genetic repository saw many of the Wolf exclusive Bloodnames removed. Because the warriors were careful in their duty and under strict orders by their Khan, few of the other Clans caught onto the Wolf actions until late in the day.

[Colt Ward]

Even that paragraph contradicts itself . . . 'entire genetic stock of exclusive' vs 'saw many of the Wolf exclusive Bloodnames removed.'  Entire is no the same as many . . . and if that was the case, why was the former Coyote charged with getting Kerensky's genes to the IS.

[Colt Ward]

How many folks have played a Wulfen on the table top against the IS?  against Clan foes?

Which model?

[Deadborder]

It's difficult to use; you're looking at a 'Mech that will typically be running at 16 heat before weapons fire. With that being said, I've found that it makes a good sniper and a great way to cart Battle Armour around. Having its weapons being primarily arm mounted helps it a lot, even if they do tend to be insanely inefficient. I've had the most luck with B, but that was with careful fire cycling and avoiding the jump jets. A is powerful on paper, but is hard to use effectively given it's rather 'all or nothing' nature. IMO, this is a case where a TC'ed ERLL beats a ER PPC.

With the Wulfen, the goal is to avoid getting close to your enemy, which makes its close-in models a little dubious. H is just plain awful and can't use its weapons even remotely efficiently if the Stealth Armour is on. Hell, it cant use them that well when it's off.

Generally it fares better against IS foes just simply due to weapon range brackets. Also, look out for Eyries; while the Wulfen generally has a hueg range advantage, should one catch you up close (eg jumping on broken terrain) it will eat you alive.

[SteveRestless]

How many folks have played a Wulfen on the table top against the IS?  against Clan foes?

Which model?

Does megamek count, or do you need an actual table involved?

[Colt Ward]

At all . . . I actually used the H on a table top against a Falcon/Horse force . . . used the Stealth to get in close and then raced about using the buildings to block LOS and treated it like a Solitaire/Phantom H which worked pretty well.  It goes for the backshots using its speed.

But that is the only time I have used it so I was wondering on opinions.

[SteveRestless]

I prefer the B, but I feel bad about using them in pick-up matches. The most effective behaviors with the mech, namely picking away at your foe at top speed while maintaining range, it's not a particularly FAST technique, nor is it the most fun to fight against. Thus I prefer doing it in games against the bot, or against an OpFor who is playing with the full knowlege that the fight isn't intended to be 'fair'. I've also adopted the position of using the Stealth Armor only as an out-of-combat feature, i.e. while advancing to the fight, scouting, or retreating from a threat the wulfen is inappropriate to face.

It also helps that I am a BIG fan of certain optional rules like Extreme Range, Kinder MASC/SC, and MaxTech Move Charts. In vanilla TW, I expect it would be a little less amazing.

It's not my first choice for a clanlike fight. It is however, useful, on the ever-unclanlike battlefields of the inner sphere. Bottom like, if you want a stand-up fight, give me a moment to requisition an adder. if you refuse my batchall, well, here comes the Wulfen to sniff you out and snipe at you.

But, even more than the questionable choice of pairing an XXL heat hog with Stealth Armor, what bothers me about the Wulfen is that the old fluff prior to the release of the wulfen indicated that it was built to partner with the warwolf, and that seems to have fallen by the wayside. Likely because it's damn hard to incorporate a NARC onto that mech the way MWDA had it

[Foxx Ital]

It looks cooler than it performs  ;)

[Colt Ward]

haha?

I would like to see about the movement charts because for the speedsters it really does help. 

Like I said, I think you can zip in for backshots against the 3/5 and 4/6 mechs with a high degree of success.

[Foxx Ital]

It really depends on the loadout, piloting a wulfen requires a bit of a skilled touch because of its heat/loadout. Its a great skermisher but its fighting style always felt niche to me, excelling at sniping and hit and run tactics, closing in is usually met with realizations of bad life choices as the wulfen gets taken out.
 Best way to use a wulfen? Fight like an inglorious bastard.

[Colt Ward]

Yeah, its a light mech . . . just the tech changes just make it more survivable on the modern battlefield than say a old 3025 Locust.  Its going to have to pick off around the edges just like the skirmisher as described.  Like I said the one time I got to use one the Stealth & speed let me slide along the edge of the map using woods and elevation changes to keep the TH mods up high.  Then I was past the flank which had a Thunder Stallion and a 4/6 heavy . . . which it dropped.  Throw on that once you are in your fighting range, if you need to turn off the Stealth you could (if table rules also) switch that ECM over to Ghost Targets.

But yes, I think it does come down to the types of battles . . . do you use DB?  do you fight in a phone booth or spread across several square klicks?  The Wulfen is also one of the more survivable scouts, which will matter if you use that sort of game.  Is there anything in the backfield you can send it after- hidden LRM launchers?  on table artillery units?  reloading sites?  HQ vehicles/structures?  bridges?  If fighting in a campaign, then its ability as a skirmisher is so solid IMO it would be okay picking off any retreating cripples forced into withdraw.

[SteveRestless]

Throw on that once you are in your fighting range, if you need to turn off the Stealth you could (if table rules also) switch that ECM over to Ghost Targets.

But yes, I think it does come down to the types of battles . . . do you use DB?  do you fight in a phone booth or spread across several square klicks?  The Wulfen is also one of the more survivable scouts, which will matter if you use that sort of game.  Is there anything in the backfield you can send it after- hidden LRM launchers?  on table artillery units?  reloading sites?  HQ vehicles/structures?  bridges?  If fighting in a campaign, then its ability as a skirmisher is so solid IMO it would be okay picking off any retreating cripples forced into withdraw.

I would like to see about the movement charts because for the speedsters it really does help. 

So, for the move charts...

Max Tech Expanded Move Chart is:

Code: [Select]

0-2    = 0
3-4    = +1
5-6    = +2
7-9    = +3
10-13  = +4
14-18  = +5
19-24  = +6
25+    = +7

Whereas Total Warfare has:

Code: [Select]

0-2    = 0
3-4    = +1
5-6    = +2
7-9    = +3
10-17  = +4
18-24  = +5
25+    = +6

which eats an entire point of movement modifier compared to the old maxtech chart.

And yeah. Generally I tend to play on 45x45 hex battlefields or bigger. I don't much care for the 1-4 standard mapsheet phonebooth, which really leaves you no options for movement or approach even when we're not talking about a fast light, much less a speedster like the Wulfen.

Ghost Targets, I try not to rely too much on anymore. MegaMek hasn't caught up with the errata, so they still retain their former effectiveness there, but the way it's been errattaed it's not much use for the Wulfen anymore (unless it's only fighting one foe, I guess?) and I try not to rely on it.

Foxx is a huge fan of doubleblind because he likes being cheeky, whereas I'm not as keen on it, but it's what gets played, so I deal. Sensor Rules help. Active Probes are love.

I do wish it had Chameleon LPS instead of Stealth Armor (yeah, the bonus isn't as potent but the heat isn't as punishing) like the Original Phantom fluff hinted at it having (and I've played phantoms with CLPS, love them as Wulfen partners)

[Foxx Ital]

Me? Cheeky!? Never! Next your gonna spread the lie my cereal cuts the roofs of children's mouths!
 Db makes mechs like the wulfen more fun to play

[SteveRestless]

Db makes mechs like the wulfen more fun to play

I'd disagree. most maps that have the amount of cover needed to make Double Blind matter much, also tend not to have clear firing lines long enough to take advantage of the ERLL. They also tend to inhibit movement speed, further hindering the Wulfen unless we can talk someone into implementing the Alpha Strike style "always gets max move modifier" rule.

No, most of the time Double Blind just means it takes longer to find each other and get into combat.

[Scotty]

The way DB works (i.e. not revealing movement even if that movement took place within line of sight but ended outside of it) means that fast Lights can exploit even infrequent cover or blocked sightlines to become effectively invisible when they're not shooting and end up wherever they want fairly unmolsted.

It only takes a trio of level 1 hills to make a Light 'mech utterly invisible (going prone is free!).

[Colt Ward]

Well if we also had actual ridges or valleys it would also matter- flanking by running off to the side out of sight.  I also like it in cities where the Wulfen's high walk makes it safer to move through the urban canyons.  Was there a PAC version?

[SteveRestless]

Well if we also had actual ridges or valleys it would also matter- flanking by running off to the side out of sight.  I also like it in cities where the Wulfen's high walk makes it safer to move through the urban canyons.  Was there a PAC version?

No, but I did use a PAC/2 to accomodate a NARC on a prime styled configuration like MWDA had.

[Colt Ward]

How hard was it and the Warwolf to put together?

[SteveRestless]

How hard was it and the Warwolf to put together?

99.95% of my experiences are megamek ^^;; I don't remember the warwolf being difficult, and I haven't got a Wulfen mini

[Colt Ward]

So I played around last night with a veteran Wolf Empire nova against a secondline mixed regular Falcon binary.  My situation in the battle suffered from losing initiative, though Princess played a good Falcon berserker.  The battlefield was a 4x4 with Falcons on N edge and Wolves on the S, a single level 4 hill in center left with smaller hills for 'rolling hills' type set up.  Heavier woods were also to the western edge and a more open area was to the SE.

Wolf Empire-
Savage Wolf A
Warwolf C (LPL & 2 ATM9)
Wulfen H
Mad Dog III C
Centurion Omni (Plasma Rifle version)
Black Wolf (ERSPL)
Elemental (APG)
Clan Med BA Rabid
Clan Med BA Volk
Salamander

vs
Jupiter
Thunderbolt IIC
Flamberge 3 (UAC/20)
Jade Hawk
Gyrfalcon 1
Eyrie
Pinion
Arbalest
Mad Cat Mk III 1
and another med or heavy, I cannot remember which

The Wulfen with Stealth on went up the west flank, dropping the Black Wolf behind the major hill to screen it from long distance plinks.  The three heavies led up the middle with the Cent-O behind them.  All the BA was dropped off in a rough line east of the major hill when the heavies were at long range- opened up the torso mounted ATM & LRMs to contribute to the large type lasers.  Then I started losing init.  When the Wulfen had bypassed the Falcon's main line but since the Bot won init it had a few units left to play with . . . and so the Mad Cat Mk III with a vet or elite pilot (random skill rolls) tried chasing down the Wulfen.  The Mad Cat III missed with everything while the Wulfen landed a HML punch to the medium's arm.  The Wulfen managed to slip behind the Jupiter to pound it with Stealth Armor off, ECM to Ghost Targets- opened the RA and ding'ed the back.

The biggest problem was the Savage Wolf took a 2nd head hit as the Falcon line got into mid range, needed a 5 to stay awake, rolled 4 . . . KO, automatic fall.  Good bye mobility . . . The BA managed to rip the Gyrfalcon up from massed SRM strikes, crippling it . . . and then all of them but the Elementals went on to reap a series of leg crippling damage in attacks.  If I had abandoned the Savage Wolf for the other Omnis of my line to retrograde the Falcons would have been crippled in the legs which would let my ERLL, LRMs and ATMs to dictate the engagement.

Even with the bad luck over the Savage Wolf and the init problems the battle likely would have ended with a crippled Jupiter as the last mech standing- mostly because it would have been too slow.  If it had come after the BA it might have been different since if it got in range they could have gone for the legs.

At the time I called it the Warwolf was missing its LPL arm and a ATM9, shooting through about half the ammo, most of it closer ranged stuff.  The Mad Dog III had worked through half the ammo, had some really weakened armor and taken damage to a leg (3/5/4 speed) but with a 2/2 pilot it was able to pass mobility rolls.  I had also lost a single BA suit when the trooper got punted by a heavy.  They had shot through all their SRM ammo making them mostly spent.

The Falcons were in pretty bad shape . . . the Arbalest was cored, Gyrfalcon had leg damage and lost a side torso (making it easy meat) before the XL took another hit, Flamberge died to engine death, and the one I cannot remember lost its head- blown off.  Thunderbolt IIC had lost a side torso, its legs torn up by leg attacks and it took a final bit of engine damage to kill it.  The Jupiter had lost a arm, taken 2 pilot hits and overheating.  The Jade Hawk had lost ATMs and the Partial Wing IIRC with leg damage.  Eyrie had its torso opened up.  The Pinion had taken leg damage.  Mad Cat Mk III had lost some armor but was probably in the best condition outside the Pinion which was pristine except for the leg damage slowing it.

Its possible the Wolf forces could have won but the rest of the mechs would have been lost and it would have come down to the BA playing tag with surviving Falcon Mechs, the Jupiter being the big problem.  Not bad for being outmassed and giving the Falcons 5k+ BV.  Should have left the Savage Wolf on the ground, it never got up anyway as the Bot went for overkill.

[Colt Ward]

You know, looking at it I think the AP Gauss or Med Chemical Lasers are the best weapons for the Wulfen to be equipped with in a furball- low heat, decent range to be used by the Wulfen's speed, and a respectable amount of damage.

Actually makes me wonder about a Phantom H with Small Chem Lasers.

[Deadborder]

I admit that my own experiences with the WarWolf are somewhat skewed. Whenever I try to use one, they usually end up dying humiliating (but hilarious) deaths through freak dice attacks, like the time that one had its head popped off by an iHGR at a stupid long range 10+ to hit roll. Or when a Warwolf H had both of its iHLLs detonate in the same turn. Ouch. And then there's the infamous Pudding Wolf...

So in short, good on paper, terrible luck skewing results.

I did have one show up as a bad guy in the AToW game I run, but the PCs managed to dick around it and avoid getting in a direct fight with it. Although that lead to one of the PCs getting an inadvertent arch-nemesis, so it was beneficial to the game as a whole. The downside is that meant the Lobo ended up being more improtant to the plot then the Warwolf was...

[Colt Ward]

Yeah, the Warwolf fared pretty well initially.  It was getting attention from ATM armed mechs and the Gyrfalcon, so reducing the damage and LAMS worked pretty well.  Still not sold on the reactive armor but considering it will be fighting the Leaguers (LRMs, UACs & LGR) and Lyrans (ACs!  Gauss Rifles!) as well as Falcons it should work out pretty well . . . especially if it hunts mechs and tanks armed with those sort of systems.

Mine got gimped in one turn- lost both the LPL arm and the ATM9 on that side.  By that point it had shot through 60%-70% of the ammo and all of the HE.

[Scotty]

Reactive Armor takes half damage from artillery and missile weapons.  You're thinking about Ballistic-Reinforced armor, which takes half damage from ballistic and missile weapons.

[Colt Ward]

Then MM might be broke, I would swear it had the LBX pellets doing nothing- though I could have been thinking about the Ferro-Lam on the Savage Wolf.  I will have to check . . . really but it should work for ballistic as well . . .

[Scotty]

It intentionally does not.

[Foxx Ital]

I love the warwolf, used one to embaress the surat out of a tomahawk. Its a great skermisher and shoes the wolfs got tired of the dominions macross missile tactics.

[wantec]

I prefer the B, but I feel bad about using them in pick-up matches. The most effective behaviors with the mech, namely picking away at your foe at top speed while maintaining range, it's not a particularly FAST technique, nor is it the most fun to fight against. Thus I prefer doing it in games against the bot, or against an OpFor who is playing with the full knowlege that the fight isn't intended to be 'fair'. I've also adopted the position of using the Stealth Armor only as an out-of-combat feature, i.e. while advancing to the fight, scouting, or retreating from a threat the wulfen is inappropriate to face.

It also helps that I am a BIG fan of certain optional rules like Extreme Range, Kinder MASC/SC, and MaxTech Move Charts. In vanilla TW, I expect it would be a little less amazing.

It's not my first choice for a clanlike fight. It is however, useful, on the ever-unclanlike battlefields of the inner sphere. Bottom like, if you want a stand-up fight, give me a moment to requisition an adder. if you refuse my batchall, well, here comes the Wulfen to sniff you out and snipe at you.

But, even more than the questionable choice of pairing an XXL heat hog with Stealth Armor, what bothers me about the Wulfen is that the old fluff prior to the release of the wulfen indicated that it was built to partner with the warwolf, and that seems to have fallen by the wayside. Likely because it's damn hard to incorporate a NARC onto that mech the way MWDA had it

They may have been intended to work together, but only 1 of the 3 MWDA Wulfens had the NARC-equivalent and even that one started with Artemis V special equipment instead.

[SteveRestless]

My knowledge of. The mwda figure is all sarna. I was fed up by the time it was released, no longer playing

[Colt Ward]

For giggles, I tried Alaric's Returned Trial of Position fought against Colton's Demons Command Lance- Colton in her Axeman 1N (4/4), Caeser 3R (3/5), Dervish 6M (4/5) and a Blackjack -2 (4/5) against Alaric (2/4) in his Timberwolf A.  Fought on a 32x32 map, (2x2 of traditional maps) with a few gullies, some woods, a hill or two and lots of open.  The bot was very aggressive . . .

Unlike Alaric, I went for the Caeser first since it had the Gauss Rifle . . . and I would be fast enough to keep away from the AC/20.  It got knocked down as I proceeded to hit every armored location, avoiding hitting the open torsos even with MPLs and SSRMs.  Its fall meant the faster Dervish took up point, and so while trying to crit the Caeser with MPLs and SSRMs I fired the ERPPC at the Dervish . . . which blew the head off- 1 kill.  The remaining three then used a gully (string of -1 hexes) to try to chase me down.  Started chipping away at the Axeman when it was a easier shot, but the armor was getting worn and the Caeser put another gauss slug into my open RT . . . to crit the SSRM ammo- it always happens to me on this config.  So I lost a side torso and half my long range firepower and was slowed for the next turn to 4/6.  Broke past the end of the gully after giving the BJ-2 a face of MPL while I tried to avoid the SSRMs . . . especially since my CT was also now open.  Ran for the woods and circled the Demons keeping my left side to them.  Before I plunged into the light woods hex, the ERPPC finally connected again on the Caeser's CT which had avoided crits the 2 times my MPLs had hit it earlier.  Caeser is gutted and falls to the turf- 2 kills.  Which leaves the Axeman and Blackjack chasing me from the center of the map.  I put some distance on them and then went back to walking to keep the heat down and let them close up again a bit.  MPLs were doing half damage due to extreme range, but I ended up duplicating Alaric's shot on the Blackjack, a ERPPC blowing off the leg through damage.  It fell but was technically still in the fight . . . which left the Axeman, and I then brought it down with a ERPPC to the CT to open that location and MPLs to get the engine & gyro crit.  The Bot tried to get it to stand and it kept falling until blacking out.  Surgical MPLs gutted it . . . and fight over, 4 kills.

Timberwolf A- 81 armor left, 64 internal and half the mech shot away.

BV2 the fight was roughly 4500 to a bit over 6k.