Author Topic: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!  (Read 198771 times)

Jaim Magnus

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He's talking about the Tamar Trap Trillian made of Hesperus II. The one where Trillian's forces just gave the Eridani Light Horse a big middle finger. I wonder what the ELH did to Trillian to merit such treatment from her. I guess Trillian is another psycho Steiner. *shrugs*

Her trap needed bait. She sacrificed mercs rather than Lyran citizens. Cold? Yes. Practical? Also yes.
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Sharpnel

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Her trap needed bait. She sacrificed mercs rather than Lyran citizens. Cold? Yes. Practical? Also yes.
Plus it was a good way for TPTB to remove ELH from the universe.
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Kitsune413

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Trillian seems pretty nice honestly. There are books where you can read her thoughts. Roderick and Trillian seem like good guys.
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Colt Ward

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Plus it was a good way for TPTB to remove ELH from the universe.

Which was the whole point along with breaking the Falcon-Horse alliance.  But I was also referencing leaving the Warden Wolves out in the cold.
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Tai Dai Cultist

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On the Wolves leaving behind their lower castes:

Quote from: FM 3145 pg 152
Furthermore, while they took their best and
brightest scientists, technicians and merchants, the vast majority
of the labor castes—the people who actually ran things—were
abandoned as well.

The "vast majority" of the Clan's pool of support personnel were abandoned.  It's a black and white fact, barring whatever unreliable authorship factor one wants to ascribe onto the quote.  Yes the Wolves kept hold of their "best and brightest" of the lower castes, but what percentage can that possibly be?  Objectively: the inverse of a "vast majority".  The Wolf Empire probably retained enough lowercastemen to serve as a leadership cadre, but that leadership cadre is overseeing a sphereoid body of support personnel.  And that's even before looking at how many sphereoid militiamen are rebranded as full-fledged Warriors (second line, but still Warriors) in the Wolf Touman.

The same "Wolf Empire" sub-chapter goes on to mention how the Empire has about as much infrastructure that can build Clan-spec as they did in 3050 when they overran the FRR: none.  They can use captured academies to train/mint more sphereoid warriors.  By implication, their trueborn birthing program is either on hold or restricted to their remaining WarShips.  (although they surely have at least some sibko cadets mature enough for being put into the field, and the "best and brightest" of the scientist caste surely are caretaking a temporarily mothballed creche program)

On the Empire only holding on to the territory it has thanks to the chaos of the Dark Age:

Quote
With their military forces focused on external
conflicts, the Wolves will lack the numbers to enforce their
authority over the local populations, and they know it. If it wasn’t
for the Blackout creating an atmosphere of uncertainty, there would
probably already be rebellions in the streets.

So anyway what I've been saying over the last page or so is that the Wolf Empire is well on its way to being drowned in "sphereoidness".  They don't have the infrastructure to maintain let alone expand their Touman (same page quotes the Wolf Empire as being dependent on the Sea Foxes to acquire any Clan-spec materiel) and they don't have the numbers, even with absorbing sphereoids wholesale, to maintain the reins of empire as only the chaos of the Dark Age (namely, the dire straits of their neighbors) is allowing their conquests to hold steady.

I envision that the Wolves don't have any intention of holding on to their "Empire" and are simply using the worlds as a staging point to leap at Terra.  They'll either succeed in their "leap of faith" and become ilClan, or they won't.  Someone's gonna be ilClan, so they're a better bet than most to become it.  But if they do fail, having burned all their bridges to get to where they can make their leap of faith will at the very least strip them of their "Clan-ness" and best case scenario, become just another Inner Sphere rump state between the FWL and LC.

Kit deSummersville

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Someone's gonna be ilClan,

Not necessarily....
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Tai Dai Cultist

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Not necessarily....

Touche. I too have occasionally argued that "ilClan" doesn't have to mean there will be an ilClan.  But let's be real: it really looks like if one were to bet, the smart money would be on the ilClan storyline featuring someone becoming ilClan rather than the name for the age being an ironic dysphemism for an age of conflict that have their roots in someone's failed attempt to become ilClan.

Kit deSummersville

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Gaiiten

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"Terra awaits us" ...

IMHO this will be the core of get the status of the ilClan. Who of the Clans owns Terra, will be ilClan.
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ANS Kamas P81

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Whoever can fight off enough Trials Of Calling Bull **** will actually be the ilClan.  If the Falcons decide they're the one true remaining legacy of the Clans, the only true Clan left, and all the others are to be Annihilated, well...all hail the Green Turkey.
Der Hölle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen,
Tod und Verzweiflung flammet um mich her!
Fühlt nicht durch dich Jadefalke Todesschmerzen,
So bist du meine Tochter nimmermehr!

Cryhavok101

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5th Succession War will just be the clans fighting endless trials of refusal as they all try to land on terra. It will last 50 years.

SteveRestless

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I just love the way the gathering place for fans of clan wolf always seems to be full of its detractors. If anybody knows where I can find where the people who actually LIKE Clan Wolf and want to talk about something other than how they'll never win terra, and taking terra doesn't mean anything anymore, and the ilclan was always a myth of your fevered imagination, Please, PM me so I can join up.
Шонхорын хурдаар хурцлан давшъя, Чонын зоригоор асан дүрэлзэье, Тэнхээт морьдын туурайгаар нүргэе, Тамгат Чингисийн ухаанаар даръя | Let’s go faster than a falcon, Let’s burn with the wolf’s courage, Let’s roar with the hooves of strong horses, Let’s go with the wisdom of Tamgat Genghis - The Hu, Wolf Totem

Jaim Magnus

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Well, I like Clan Wolf.  I even think they can take Terra. I just worry about them being able to HOLD it. Because if the Wolves take Terra, the Jade Falcons will lose their **** and thus Refusal War 2.0. Depending on how badly they're hurt by that, a spheroid power will look to take advantage of the Wolves.

Given the weakened state of the Council of Six (let's be honest, thanks largely to the Wolves themselves), the Clan of Kerensky will have to work extraordinarily hard to promote Clan unity, which will be their best chance of curbing aggression by the Great Houses.

My two cents at least.
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jklantern

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Not necessarily....

Someone's gonna be THE ILLEST CLAN!  WITH SICK MOVES YO!

...okay, I'll stop.
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Cryhavok101

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Out of all the clanners, the wolves have the best chance of being accepted as some kind of leader if they do take Terra, since they have a leader who seems to be able to make a claim for one of the succession house thrones. He could theoretically claim to be the successor lord to claim the title of First Lord. If he can convince everyone he has a legitimate claim to both inner sphere and clan power, he could, potentially, go very far with it.

That wouldn't be nearly as funny as the clans being locking into decades of trials of refusal as none of them are willing to accept the results though.

Deadborder

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Let us not forget that Alaric, the hero of the Wolves, is a lying, matricidal sociopath who deliberately let his predecessor die so that he could become Khan.

Oh and by 3150, Anastasia Kerensky is saKhan, and she knows enough to bury him - and has an amazing track record of command decisions to boot.

Have fun guys
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Tai Dai Cultist

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Let us not forget that Alaric, the hero of the Wolves, is a lying, matricidal sociopath who deliberately let his predecessor die so that he could become Khan.

Oh and by 3150, Anastasia Kerensky is saKhan, and she knows enough to bury him - and has an amazing track record of command decisions to boot.

Have fun guys

If the POV presented in Bonfire of Worlds is accurate.. he didn't "let his predecessor die"... he flat out murdered him and blamed it on "Loki agents that were totally lurking in the area".

Deadborder

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If the POV presented in Bonfire of Worlds is accurate.. he didn't "let his predecessor die"... he flat out murdered him and blamed it on "Loki agents that were totally lurking in the area".

Totally forgot that, yeah. It's been a while since I read Bonfire
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Maelwys

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Of course, no one really knows that...

Colt Ward

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Let us not forget that Alaric, the hero of the Wolves, is a lying, matricidal sociopath who deliberately let his predecessor die so that he could become Khan.

Oh and by 3150, Anastasia Kerensky is saKhan, and she knows enough to bury him - and has an amazing track record of command decisions to boot.

Have fun guys

Killing Katherine is self-defense as he told her while she died.  Katherine killed her mother, tried to kill Victor several times and as Alaric may know of the rumors about Authur that could be factored in.  Its not a stretch that she would kill her offspring if they got in the way of her access to power.  Even if she had not tried to kill him to 'rule in his name' she would have been constantly interfering to do what she though best which never works in any society but would be worse among the Clans.

Anastasia as a character was nearly ruined by the Proving Grounds trash- widely acknowledged as three of the worst MWDA novels- and that left successive novels to try to recover her character to what was presented in the first book.

Colt Ward
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"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

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Deadborder

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Killing Katherine is self-defense as he told her while she died.  Katherine killed her mother, tried to kill Victor several times and as Alaric may know of the rumors about Authur that could be factored in.  Its not a stretch that she would kill her offspring if they got in the way of her access to power.  Even if she had not tried to kill him to 'rule in his name' she would have been constantly interfering to do what she though best which never works in any society but would be worse among the Clans.

Anastasia as a character was nearly ruined by the Proving Grounds trash- widely acknowledged as three of the worst MWDA novels- and that left successive novels to try to recover her character to what was presented in the first book.

Even then, Alaric was killing a hundred year-plus old woman obsintently in self-defence, even when he had repeatedly demonstrated that he was storng enough on his own to overome her influence. To me it came off more as some insane 'fulfil my own destiny, compelte the circle' thing of parent killing with his own attempts at self-justification after the fact.

Besides, there's still the whole "Kill the Khan to become the Khan" thing going on. What Alaric did was a massive violation of clan law.

And regardless of how you feel about the Proving Grounds novels, they are still canon, and the events in them still happened and have been referenced mutliple times since. You can't just say 'doesn't count'. And even then, Anastasia has demonstrated that whoever she's leading, they are secondary to her own needs and goals.
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Tai Dai Cultist

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Of course, no one really knows that...

Whether or not anyone else in-universe knows may yet be a surprise to be revealed.

But even if someone doesn't bring that deed against him, the point stands that the Wolves' Khan is exactly the sort to expend anything or anyone to get what he wants.  That could bode poorly for the Clan's long term prospects if he's put in a tough spot.  It doesn't necessarily mean it WILL portend ill for the Wolves... just saying it could: as I pointed out FM3145 seems to portray the Wolves as walking a tightrope between disaster and greatness.

Øystein

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This is Clan Wolf we are talking about - they are pragmatists.

A Clan that ignored one of their leaders shooting an unarmed prisoner in the face and drawing a circle around him calling it a "circle of equals". (Phelan Ward's coldblooded murder of Conal Ward).

Gaiiten

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Did you not know?
"Primary objective: Shooting, secondary objective (if ever): draw the circle"

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SteveRestless

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Anastasia as a character was nearly ruined by the Proving Grounds trash- widely acknowledged as three of the worst MWDA novels- and that left successive novels to try to recover her character to what was presented in the first book.

Not gonna lie, seeing her someday die, is a strong factor in why I want the plot to move forward again. I think Devlin Stone is the only character I'm looking forward to seeing dead more than her. Malvina in third place. I would be a happy man if any two of those three fell at Alaric's hand.

Шонхорын хурдаар хурцлан давшъя, Чонын зоригоор асан дүрэлзэье, Тэнхээт морьдын туурайгаар нүргэе, Тамгат Чингисийн ухаанаар даръя | Let’s go faster than a falcon, Let’s burn with the wolf’s courage, Let’s roar with the hooves of strong horses, Let’s go with the wisdom of Tamgat Genghis - The Hu, Wolf Totem

Deadborder

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Funnily enough, I'm the opposite. I'd love to see Alaric dead by the hand of Anastasia, Malvina or Devlin.
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SteveRestless

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I was under the impression you were far more of a falcon fan. I'm not exactly surprised that you want to see a degenerate lunatic, a falcon or a spheroid kill the wolf khan.
Шонхорын хурдаар хурцлан давшъя, Чонын зоригоор асан дүрэлзэье, Тэнхээт морьдын туурайгаар нүргэе, Тамгат Чингисийн ухаанаар даръя | Let’s go faster than a falcon, Let’s burn with the wolf’s courage, Let’s roar with the hooves of strong horses, Let’s go with the wisdom of Tamgat Genghis - The Hu, Wolf Totem

Deadborder

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I'm just as much a Republic fan as I am a Falcon one. And I also legitimately really do like Anastasia Kerensky.

But I would like to see Devlin Stone, Malvina Hazen or Anastasia Kerensy kill a matricidal sociopathic manipulator who murdered and lied his way to the Khanship.
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Sharpnel

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Since Malvina's possible death is mentioned, the only probable killer I would like to see doing it is Cynthy.
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