Author Topic: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?  (Read 4685 times)

ErikModi

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Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« on: 16 September 2023, 06:21:47 »
So, I'm thinking of redoing my House Northman fanfic as Rasalhague instead of FedCom, chronicling the adventures of warrior-aristocrats through the Clan Invastion and transition to the Rasalhague Dominion.

I know Rasalhauge is a bit more egalitarian than most of the Inner Sphere states and doesn't really have an entrenched nobility running things, but I'm imagining a Kurita-influenced Scandinavian House that's trying to stay relevant as things move away from neo-feudalism.  Partly because I really like the neo-feudal aspect of BattleTech and wish it was played up more, and partly because then I can write the main character as a Viking Samurai, and how frelling awesome is that?

I'm planning on doing it LitRPG style, using the mechanics from MechWarrior Destiny (which I still need to get) and possibly the 'Mech combat rules from that or regular tabletop rules to decide battles, depending on which I think works best as I dig into it.

The question I have is what would be a good force composition for a Rasalhague unit?  I'm thinking of starting at about Company size.  For the Command Lance, my thoughts are:

BattleMaster BLR-1G-DC.  Command Console variant, but one of the least extreme of them, so reasonable to be kept around.  I think it could be quite fun to have a dynamic between the main character piloting it and co-protagonist in the back acting as kind of the Goose to his Maverick.
Victor.  I just really like the Victor, and it shouldn't be too hard for some scrappy Rasalhaguians to get their hands on a stock model.
Marauder.  In my original story, the Command Lance was four assault 'Mechs, but finding four 4/6 assault 'Mechs is hard.  The Marauder fits the speed profile, and is a potent enough heavy 'Mech to stand in the Command Lance.
Warhammer.  For the same reasons as the Marauder.

Now I just need to figure out what to do with the rest of the Company.  Medium 'Mechs are the workhorses of the Inner Sphere, the most common on the battlefield, and allegedly hitting the sweet spot of powerful enough to deal with most threats and fast and maneuverable enough to outrun or outflank anything they can't take head-on.  Problem is, most IS mediums are made of cardboard against Clan 'Mechs, and while I don't plan for this unit to always win against the Clans, I'd like to not have them get butchered and take heavy losses every time.  I'm thinking a fire support medium lance, so they can hang back behind the Command Lance and rain LRMs.  I'll probably include a Dragon, since even though it's a heavy 'Mech it's a medium in terms of role, and a Trebuchet.  Just not sure what else to add, maybe a Centurion, since they're designed to work with Trebuchets?

No idea what to do for the last lance.  The obvious answer is light 'Mechs, but I'm not really good at using them well.  More heavies?  A dedicated assault lance?  Seems expensive and a bit beyond the reach of a small military unit, even if they're not mercenaries.  I'm not even really sure what the "usual" Rasalhague combat doctrine is, what kinds of units they prefer and how they prefer to use them.  Even if factional playstyles are less emphasized, it's still something I should like to consider, if only to know the rules that I might break them properly.

So, anyone have thoughts or suggestions?

Elmoth

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #1 on: 16 September 2023, 09:38:26 »
Rasalhague has 3 or 4 (cant recall) of the production line sof the panther. This os one of the reasons I do not believe tje ikuritans would accept the secession. Ever. That breaks my suspension of disbelief. And well, given that fsct, the rasalhague forces should have qyite a few panthers.

So you need panthers in your force. 3 st least. I would use 6. Sone other kiritan and lyran designs would ve dwisrable as well. Commandos, jenners and maybe a spider. Then a griffin and a dragon (grand dragon?) would play well together. And a wolverine K.

Cheers.
Xavi

The command lance looks perfectly fine to me.

Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #2 on: 16 September 2023, 11:22:14 »
Maybe lean into the Viking shtick and get as many axe Mechs as you can. Ideally, an Axman leading three Hatchetmen, but that might be a bit much, maybe just 1-2 Hatchetmen.  Admittedly, they’re not the greatest designs, none have enough armor, but c’est la vie.  Vikings. Axes.  Assuming you don’t get the full Lance, throwing in a Panther or two would be good; they’re as common as katanas in former Kurita space, and share a movement curve with the Hatchetman.
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ErikModi

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #3 on: 16 September 2023, 11:50:33 »
That could be fun.

Aren't Panthers kind of. . . barely better than UrbanMechs?

Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #4 on: 16 September 2023, 14:08:48 »
Nah.  4/6/4, PPC and SRM4, and as much armor as a Hatchetman, despite being ten tons lighter.  In the era they’re a respectable, if kind of slow, light trooper.  Don’t think of them as slow light Mechs, think of them as diet mediums.
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eaglenine2

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #5 on: 16 September 2023, 14:44:25 »
So your house can support a Free Company so a company of mech supported by infantry.

truetanker

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #6 on: 16 September 2023, 15:17:39 »
May I suggest a Hatchetman?

If you were to read the Hatchetman fluff...

House Kurita, during the Bush Wars captured tons of unassigned Hatchetmans...

Designated in any AU as HCT-3K / 4K.  3K is just a 3F using more Samurai motif, the 4K uses a Katana prototype. The 5K uses canon.

I've made a 3d print of the above 3/4K.

But the idea is Draconian Hatchetman circa 3040, leading three Panthers.

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Natasha Kerensky

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #7 on: 16 September 2023, 15:30:56 »

20-Year Update gives the FRR Panther, P-Hawk, and Archer factories.  That sourcebook also describes their military rosters as a mix of Combine and Commonwealth equipment, specifically Commandos paired with Panthers and Dragons paired with Zeuses.  They additionally produce ACs for Lyran Zeuses in Objective Raids.  Later on, at least one FRR regiment is described as preferring melee combat in the context of Hatchetmen (presumably from the Lyrans).  Also, they have their own versions of the Patton/Rommel tanks called the Axel.
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ErikModi

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #8 on: 16 September 2023, 16:03:46 »
I am liking the idea of a "Striker Lance."  An Axeman, Hatchetman, Panther, and maybe Jenner for quick recon (and because Panthers and Jenners are meant to be paired).  Or maybe a Hatchetman and Panther as slow-but-nimble medium assault, Phoenix Hawk and Jenner as fast strike recon.

And yeah, both the Panther and Dragon basically fall into the Medium category in capability because the Combine thinks Medium 'Mechs are redundant.

Hellraiser

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #9 on: 16 September 2023, 16:24:11 »
BattleMaster BLR-1G-DC.  Command Console variant, but one of the least extreme of them, so reasonable to be kept around.  I think it could be quite fun to have a dynamic between the main character piloting it and co-protagonist in the back acting as kind of the Goose to his Maverick.
Victor.  I just really like the Victor, and it shouldn't be too hard for some scrappy Rasalhaguians to get their hands on a stock model.
Marauder.  In my original story, the Command Lance was four assault 'Mechs, but finding four 4/6 assault 'Mechs is hard.  The Marauder fits the speed profile, and is a potent enough heavy 'Mech to stand in the Command Lance.
Warhammer.  For the same reasons as the Marauder.

Now I just need to figure out what to do with the rest of the Company.  Medium 'Mechs are the workhorses of the Inner Sphere, the most common on the battlefield, and allegedly hitting the sweet spot of powerful enough to deal with most threats and fast and maneuverable enough to outrun or outflank anything they can't take head-on.  Problem is, most IS mediums are made of cardboard against Clan 'Mechs, and while I don't plan for this unit to always win against the Clans, I'd like to not have them get butchered and take heavy losses every time.  I'm thinking a fire support medium lance, so they can hang back behind the Command Lance and rain LRMs.  I'll probably include a Dragon, since even though it's a heavy 'Mech it's a medium in terms of role, and a Trebuchet.  Just not sure what else to add, maybe a Centurion, since they're designed to work with Trebuchets?

As mentioned the FRR inherited production lines for the Panther, but also the Archer & Phoenix Hawk.
I wouldn't bother with "double" minis in most cases since your only using a company of mechs in total.

I'd also take into account the fact that they get a LOT of their production from "equal buys" from each the DC & LC to avoid favoring either one politically.

I'd make the entire command lance move 4/6/0 & shift the Victor to Lance #2

Battlemaster, Marauder, WarHammer, Archer    (Command & Heavy Firepower Lance)

Victor, Dragon, Griffin, Panther  (Mobile/Battle lance, some firepower at range but also speed/JJ & in close attack ability)

Quickdraw, PhoenixHawk, Wasp, Stinger   (Recon/Striker, all JJ Equipped & set up for speed/mobility)

You only have 2 Assaults, but could pick up a Zeus if you really wanted for a 3rd.


Every mech on the list is produced in the FRR, LC, or DC post Wo39.
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Hellraiser

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #10 on: 16 September 2023, 16:32:09 »
This os one of the reasons I do not believe tje ikuritans would accept the secession. Ever. That breaks my suspension of disbelief. 
The Ronin War shows they didn't, LOL.

That said, they denied the LyrCom a ton of worlds that they lost to them in the 4th SW & by putting a buffer state in there they could focus on defending a smaller region along the Terran & Davion boarder areas.

The 12 Regiments of mechs and intel they got from C* for supporting that move more than compensated for the factory production they lost & is the only reason they survived the Wo39 instead of getting gutted the way the Cappies did in the 4th SW.

Yeah, they traded some factories but given what they took in the 4th SW (Marduk) and later in the Wo39 (Quentin) they came out WAY ahead on the deal.
Trading Panthers to get Atlas, Marauder, Victor, Jagermech, Griffin, & Wolverine factories?  YES PLEASE
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Metallgewitter

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #11 on: 16 September 2023, 17:02:05 »
If your force is around 3057 or higher might I suggest a lance of Berserkers for a heavy strike lance? According to the TRO the Rasalhague Republic loves Mechs with melee weapons and when the then FedCom unveiled the Berserker they placed apparently substantial orders for this Mech.

ErikModi

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #12 on: 16 September 2023, 17:21:34 »
Starting pre-Clan Invasion, but when it becomes available, I'll put it on the list!

truetanker

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #13 on: 16 September 2023, 17:52:38 »
Kurita 'Hammer is a great version, so is the Steiner Archer.

TT
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Hellraiser

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #14 on: 16 September 2023, 18:42:00 »
They have their own Archer so I'm doubting that is a model they import from the Lyrans.

And the K-Hammer is a field refit v/s production from a factory, but owning a few of either that they inherited is clearly an option.

Here is a list of "Standard" tech models made by the LyrCom &/or DracComb in the late SW era pre-clan invasion.

Phoenix Hawk PXH-3S   3042
Hatamoto-Chi HTM-27T   3042
Cyclops CP-11-A      3045
Jenner JR7-K      3047
Dragon DRG-5N      3047
Catapult CPLT-K3   3047
Marauder MAD-5D      3047
Hatamoto-Hi HTM-27U   3047
Hatamoto-Kaze HTM-27V   3048
Hatamoto-Ku HTM-27W   3048
Zeus ZEU-9S      3048
Mauler MAL-1R      3048

In case you wanted to sprinkle in a couple newer options that maybe the unit JUST got.
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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #15 on: 16 September 2023, 18:44:32 »
I have a gem for you: the HER-4K Hermes III.  As part of the Concord of Kapteyn, the FWL exported Irian-manufactured Hermes II medium 'Mechs to the Combine.  We don't have the specifics as to these were special-ordered or post-factory modifications of these export models, but the HER-4K pulls all of the HER-2S's guns and swaps them for two large lasers and an extra heat sink.  The result is a toasty, but well-armored striker.

And it is canonically available to the KungsArme in the Late Succession War period.
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Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #16 on: 16 September 2023, 18:51:10 »
An Archer would be good for your second Lance, I’d forgotten that the FRR made those.  Slower than the Dragon or Trebuchet, but the same speed as the Centurion.  That Lance would also be a decent place for an Axman-2N once they come into production in 3049: 2 LRM15s and an axe make it a nice self-bodyguarding firesupport mech.
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ErikModi

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #17 on: 17 September 2023, 06:48:02 »
I wouldn't bother with "double" minis in most cases since your only using a company of mechs in total.

Not sure what you mean by "double" minis.  You mean the Command Console BattleMaster?  Part of that is just because I think it might be fun, and part of it is that, as I understand it, the Command Console pilot can spot for indirect fire without penalty, so I can better use LRMs and keep the support units away from Clan retaliation.  Basically like I had Arrow IV Artillery in my original story, a way to deal damage without taking it in return and close the Clan tech superiority gap.

So your house can support a Free Company so a company of mech supported by infantry.

I'm not keen on using infantry.  My understanding is they'll get slaughtered with 'Mechs and vehicles on the table, and it doesn't feel proper to the tone of story I'm looking at to have every deployment end with shredded bodies stacked like cordwood and the main characters recruiting more meat for the grinder.

BattleArmor infantry is a completely different story, but that won't be available to the IS for some time.
« Last Edit: 17 September 2023, 06:54:59 by ErikModi »

truetanker

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #18 on: 17 September 2023, 11:41:42 »
Infantry get more done than a single MW.

They have 360* fighting, a MechWarrior can only shot one direction without penalties.

Infantry can dig in, giving more protection, can exit and enter buildings without a piloting roll. Can move inside said building without damaging itself. Not only that, but they are harder to fight when separated into Squads. Yes this means less damage but better odds.

All I can say is try them out in a friendly game. Just be sure to use cover, terrain and something to distract from them. Be it another Mech or Vehicle. I found it prudent to move them as place holders and delaying my immediate moves, on my initiative. Cases arrive where you'll see something that your opponent did wrong and want to jump onto it only to find out they left a trap for you.

I know, it's been done to me quite often, which is why I've become insatiable about vehicular combat.

Always cover your clock!

Also, Jump Infantry works the same as BA, good practice.

TT

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Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #19 on: 17 September 2023, 13:35:09 »
I had a thread last year (or the year before) about which production lines the FRR had pre-3050 thanks to my Principality of Rasalhague 3049 story. Basically the FRR had half a dozen mech lines total and even then it wasn’t much.

The Panther is a solid light mech: love the thing. Sure it’s slow but JJ helps.

A Dragon, Panther, Jenner, and Trebuchet would work well for the Company: personally I throw a Grasshopper in every chance I get because it’s a SOLID design (and Tor Miraborg used one).

Basically with the FRR you can mix and match from the Lyran’s, Combine, and ComStar with Mercs, Periphery, and FedSuns second liners to boot.

But it all depends on what you want the company to do and they way you describe your initial setup means you want a big assault Lance, probably a Fire support/ trooper Lance, and then a light Lance.

As much as I hate to admit it… you can’t go wrong with big mechs for the last Lance .

ErikModi

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #20 on: 19 September 2023, 09:32:00 »
Since I'm planning on writing this LitRPG style, I have a few additional questions that might influence 'Mech choices.  I still need to get MechWarrior:  Destiny.

Without going into too much detail, I gather Destiny has slightly different vehicle combat rules than regular tabletop BattleTech.  How compatible are Destiny characters with the basic tabletop game?  Are there 'Mechs or weapons that perform significantly differently, better or worse, in Destiny than in BattleTech?  Not sure which I'll use to resolve 'Mech combat.

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #21 on: 20 September 2023, 15:08:24 »
I had a thread last year (or the year before) about which production lines the FRR had pre-3050 thanks to my Principality of Rasalhague 3049 story. Basically the FRR had half a dozen mech lines total and even then it wasn’t much.

Did you find something besides Archer, PhoenixHawk, & Panther(s) ?
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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #22 on: 21 September 2023, 06:59:27 »
Keep in mind the Archer line they have is the ARC-5R which happens to be in the new Alpha Strike box.


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Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #23 on: 21 September 2023, 14:39:52 »
Did you find something besides Archer, PhoenixHawk, & Panther(s) ?


https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,75105.msg1764362.html#msg1764362

Archer, Panther, Phoenix Hawk

Then the Cyclops, Shadow Hawk, Beowulf, Viking, Crockett and Ostscout between 3050’s-3067’s

Then of course Bear mechs aplenty
« Last Edit: 21 September 2023, 14:51:18 by Tyler Jorgensson »

ErikModi

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #24 on: 23 September 2023, 04:39:05 »
Okay, based on the suggestions here (which thank you everyone!) and looking over the FRR MUL, here's my current thinking:

Command Lance (Hildskjalf Lance?):  Heavy fire, incoming and outgoing
BattleMaster BLR-1G-DC
Victor
Marauder
Warhammer

Mjolnir Lance:  LRM fire support
Dragon
Centurion?
Trebuchet
Either Archer or Whitworth

Gungnir Lance:  Scout/Skirmish
Hatchetman?  Not on the FRR MUL, but easy to handwave as bought from FedCom
Panther
Phoenix Hawk
Jenner

Basic tactics:

Command Lance marches forward to draw fire and line up shots using their ability to project force, with the Victor acting as a heavy skirmisher, jumping around to keep fire off its thin armor and position itself for salvos at anyone who gets close to the other Command Lance 'Mechs, especially the BattleMaster, holding the two leaders of the formation.

Mjolnir Lance stays back as far as possible, ideally out of LOS and brings indirect LRM fire support.  Part of the reason I want BLR-1G-DC, as I understand the warrior in the command console can spot for indirect fire while the main pilot maneuvers and shoots.

Gungnir Lance works in pairs.  The slow but maneuverable Panther and Hatchetman work to get to their optimal positions and unleash damage on the enemy, the Phoenix Hawk and Jenner use their speed and jump ability to get close and dish damage or herd the enemy force into kill boxes.

At least, that's the plan.  I'm no great shakes at actually playing the game, so we'll see if I can use any of these units well at all.

Part of the reason I'm going with this lineup is, lights and mediums being far more common in the Inner Sphere than Heavies and Assaults at this point, much as I like some Steiner tactics I feel it would be out of place to have the Company be all heavies and assaults.

What DropShip would be best to transport this Company?
« Last Edit: 23 September 2023, 04:40:58 by ErikModi »

Hellraiser

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #25 on: 23 September 2023, 14:03:38 »

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,75105.msg1764362.html#msg1764362

Archer, Panther, Phoenix Hawk


Yep, you mentioned PRE-3050 so I was just looking at Intro Tech.

And I recall that thread, actually, I was still looking into that note I had there about Locust Production & I think I figured out where it was for the DC.
There is a Sarna mention about Bergan/Alshain had a Locust line that the Bears captured & restored & turned into IIC production, notation is from Objective Raids so that might explain where the DC Locust production was at & that it wasn't one of the FRR plants but is now part of the FRR/Dominion union.

So back on track,  Archer-2R/2K,  Pixie-1/1K, and Panther-9R are all production options for the FRR in the 3040's era.
Then upgrades come 3050 & purchases from LC/DC in equal amounts.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

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truetanker

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #26 on: 23 September 2023, 14:06:07 »
What DropShip would be best to transport this Company?

Common enough?

Union

Oddity?

Command Variant Dictator

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Hellraiser

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #27 on: 23 September 2023, 14:10:59 »
Union
THIS ^^

As much as I like a Command-Dictator in the SLDF era, in 3040 that is going to be RARE & OLD.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
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truetanker

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #28 on: 23 September 2023, 14:12:14 »
Also, too bad the Hebi got destroyed... I'd recommend it.

5/8 PPC / LRM10 Heavy...

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Natasha Kerensky

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #29 on: 23 September 2023, 15:13:53 »

A Union-class  Dropship is the typical carrier for a mech company.

After centuries of the Succession Wars, about any House mech can appear in about any House military at the outset of the Clan invasion.  That said, the Centurion and Trebuchet look out of place to me in a Rasalhague unit.  Those are Davion and Marik mechs (although there is a PPC-wielding Kurita variant of the Trebuchet).  Rasalhague will mostly (but not exclusively) field Kurita, Lyran, and their own native production mechs.  I’d be tempted to substitute a Zeus and an Archer -2K for the Centurion and Trebuchet.

Variants like the Archer -2K (which Rasalhague produces) can lend better faction flavor and sometimes be better designs than the base models.  You’ll want to run a Warhammer -6K, for example, because the Kurita design better manages its PPC heat. Same goes for the Dragon, which you’ll want to run as a Grand Dragon -1G, which is essentially superior to all the Succession Wars Dragons.

It may not matter much what mechs are in which lances if you’re always running the entire company.  But the Hatchetman and Panther are painfully slow to pair with the P-Hawk and the Jenner in the same lance, and if someone is just running that lance, they may have a hard time keeping it together.  You may want to move the Panther and Hatchetman  up into the other lances and/or substitute other fast mechs like the Commando or Firestarter “Mirage”.

Also, there’s nothing wrong with using multiples of the same unit if your faction has a good variant.  I prefer doubling down on good designs instead of weakening formations for the sake of variety.  The Archer and P-Hawk are pretty solid designs produced by Rasalhague that might appear multiple times in their formations, for example.

Just for comparison’s sake, here’s my idea of a potentially Clan-competitive Rasalhague company starting from scratch using on 3025 tech.  (You’re not starting from scratch, so I’m not saying this should be your company.)  To try to compete with the Clans, this company avoids both light mechs and short-ranged mechs, tries to exploit good mech variants, and adds a fourth lance of tanks that ride in the Union’s cargo bay.

Command Lance
Atlas -RS (all factions, longer-ranged Atlas)
Banshee -3S (killer Lyran variant)
Warhammer -6K (better Kurita variant)
Flashman -7K (Lyran downgrade but still good, produced on Hesperus despite the “K”)

Fire Lance
Zeus-6T (harder hitting Lyran variant)
Archer -2K (produced by Rasalhague)
Archer -2K (produced by Rasalhague)
Grand Dragon -1G (improved Kurita variant)

Cavalry Lance
Wolverine -6K (solid Kurita brawler)
Griffin -1S (Lyran brawler variant)
P-Hawk -1K (produced by Rasalhague)
P-Hawk -1K (produced by Rasalhague)

Support Lance
Axel Mk 2 (ICE Rommel produced by Rasalhague)
Axel Mk 2 (ICE Rommel produced by Rasalhague)
Axel Mk 2 (ICE Rommel produced by Rasalhague)
Axel Mk 2 (ICE Rommel produced by Rasalhague)

Hope this helps.
« Last Edit: 23 September 2023, 15:16:35 by Natasha Kerensky »
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Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #30 on: 23 September 2023, 15:42:25 »
Yep, you mentioned PRE-3050 so I was just looking at Intro Tech.

And I recall that thread, actually, I was still looking into that note I had there about Locust Production & I think I figured out where it was for the DC.
There is a Sarna mention about Bergan/Alshain had a Locust line that the Bears captured & restored & turned into IIC production, notation is from Objective Raids so that might explain where the DC Locust production was at & that it wasn't one of the FRR plants but is now part of the FRR/Dominion union.

So back on track,  Archer-2R/2K,  Pixie-1/1K, and Panther-9R are all production options for the FRR in the 3040's era.
Then upgrades come 3050 & purchases from LC/DC in equal amounts.


I don’t have Objective Raids (I think: my old hard drive has half my old BT stuff in it and I haven’t opened/transferred it) but I’ll pick it up and take a read thru

THIS ^^

As much as I like a Command-Dictator in the SLDF era, in 3040 that is going to be RARE & OLD.

Sadly… Union is your go to.

ErikModi

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #31 on: 23 September 2023, 16:23:16 »
Woah, yeah, the Dictator (Command) is a beast!  Union looks like a solid design, though.

Just for comparison’s sake, here’s my idea of a potentially Clan-competitive Rasalhague company starting from scratch using on 3025 tech.  (You’re not starting from scratch, so I’m not saying this should be your company.)  To try to compete with the Clans, this company avoids both light mechs and short-ranged mechs, tries to exploit good mech variants, and adds a fourth lance of tanks that ride in the Union’s cargo bay.

Looks like a solid lineup, and fitting more in my heavy-slanted playstyle, but it seems a bit much.  While this isn't precisely a new command being built from the ground-up out of one person's pockets, the general idea is a military unit under the KungsArme staffed and equipped mostly by what used to be the local noble family before the Kuritas got kicked out and Rasalhague started experimenting with democracy again.  While the family is "rich as I need them to be," I'm trying to aim more for the rough average of what a Rasalhague unit might look like, with a few notable expenditures and departures (the DC BattleMaster, mostly).

Does Rasalhague tend to run heavy?  Do they use fewer Light and Medium 'Mechs than other Inner Sphere states?  My assumption is, that as a newly-formed state that's been conquered by an invader for several centuries, they're military is small and strapped for decent equipment and the cash to buy decent equipment.  Is that incorrect?  If Rasalhague skews towards heavier units, I have no problem following suit, but if the lore has them using cheaper, and thus usually lighter, units, I'd like to follow that trend, even if that does mean hampering myself when the Clans come knocking (the characters don't know the Clan invasion is nigh, after all).

truetanker

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #32 on: 23 September 2023, 16:43:39 »
Yeah, the Command Dictator is a beast, just like Arnie :

" Old, but not obsolete. " ~Terminator Genisys

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Natasha Kerensky

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #33 on: 23 September 2023, 17:31:40 »
Does Rasalhague tend to run heavy?  Do they use fewer Light and Medium 'Mechs than other Inner Sphere states? 

The Rasalhague military divided its mech forces by weight into four types of regiments:

Kavalleri (Light) —> https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Kavalleri

Hussar (Medium) —> https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hussars_(Free_Rasalhague_Republic)

Drakøn (Heavy) —> https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Drakøns

1st Tyr and Gunzburg Eagles (Assault — these were unique regiments) —> https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Gunzburg_Eagles

The company I put together upthread would probably be an element of a Drakøn Regiment, the 1st Tyr, or the Gunzburg Eagles.  Those links show which regiments survived the Clan invasion, so it would make sense to place your company with one of the surviving regiment so they see action over the whole invasion.  (Note that the Eagles saw no action.)

Quote
My assumption is, that as a newly-formed state that's been conquered by an invader for several centuries, they're military is small and strapped for decent equipment and the cash to buy decent equipment.  Is that incorrect?

If you look at those links, which are mostly based on the 20-Year Update https://store.catalystgamelabs.com/products/battletech-20-year-update-pdf, the one source that actually details Rasalhague, their military (at least mech forces) are pretty well balanced between lighter and heavier units.  The Lyrans supplied the Rasalhague resistance against Combine rule, maybe for centuries, including an entire assault-class mech regiment (the 1st Tyr).  I believe they also inherited considerable Combine material from the Rasalhague Regulars, the Combine mech brigade drawn from Rasalhague space.  They may have also gained significant salvage from the Ronin War, when other Combine regiments revolted against the Combine in protest of the loss of Rasalhague.  And the 20-Year Update explicitly states that Rasalhague purchases military material in equal amounts (to placate their much bigger neighbors) from the Lyrans and Combine.  Again, Zeuses paired with Dragons and Panthers paired with Commandos are explicitly mentioned.  And again, Rasalhague inherited factories for Archer, P-Hawk, and Panther mechs.  The only real shortage of material that I recall is that their version of the Rommel tank, the Axel, uses ICE engines instead of fusion, which reduces their speed to 3/5, from 4/6.  There was also a scenario in More Tales of the Black Widow where a cadet company was fielding all Panthers, but all lights is what you would expect for a training company.

In short, Rasalhague isn’t going to field multiple walls of steel like the Lyrans but they’re not running around in nothing but bug mechs either like the dregs from some bandit kingdom.

Quote
even if that does mean hampering myself when the Clans come knocking (the characters don't know the Clan invasion is nigh, after all).

Even with the best 3025-tech, it’s hard to survive a stand-up engagement against typical Clan heavy cav balanced by BV or (worse) tonnage.  A lot comes down to the quality of the Clan mechs.  My company upthread can probably beat Hellbringers  and Kit Foxes.  But without some trick, it has little hope against Timberwolves and Stormcrows.
« Last Edit: 23 September 2023, 18:15:09 by Natasha Kerensky »
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
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"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #34 on: 23 September 2023, 17:43:15 »
Union is the obvious choice.  If you want to be a little different, maybe consider a modified Seeker.  It’s fluffed as being easily reconfigured, and the primary bay (40 light vehicles) has the tonnage to house a dozen Mechs instead (even leaving room for a light vehicle platoon, maybe stick some jeeps or cargo trucks in there), plus the other bays, which hold quite a bit of cargo and 4 infantry platoons (maybe use those to house your techs/support personnel), and the crew & passenger quarters are specifically called out as being nicer than usual (by contrast to the Union, which has a notoriously temperamental air circulation system and cramped quarters).
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ErikModi

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #35 on: 24 September 2023, 04:20:38 »
The Rasalhague military divided its mech forces by weight into four types of regiments:

Kavalleri (Light) —> https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Kavalleri

Hussar (Medium) —> https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hussars_(Free_Rasalhague_Republic)

Drakøn (Heavy) —> https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Drakøns

1st Tyr and Gunzburg Eagles (Assault — these were unique regiments) —> https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Gunzburg_Eagles

The company I put together upthread would probably be an element of a Drakøn Regiment, the 1st Tyr, or the Gunzburg Eagles.  Those links show which regiments survived the Clan invasion, so it would make sense to place your company with one of the surviving regiment so they see action over the whole invasion. 

Yeah, saw those when I was looking into Rasalhague's military and political structure on Sarna.  Thought it odd they apparently divide 'Mech divisions up by weight, since in the novel "Malicious Intent" an officer being assigned a company of light 'Mechs is seen as a huge aberration.  To quote, "They invented a do-nothing unit for him!"  Though I guess that would be a general trend rather than a hard rule. . . Kavalleri skew towards the light end but have a few heavies and assaults, Drakons skew towards heavy and assault but have a few lights.

(Note that the Eagles saw no action.)

That's because you're a devious old maid, my friend. :grin:

If you look at those links, which are mostly based on the 20-Year Update https://store.catalystgamelabs.com/products/battletech-20-year-update-pdf, the one source that actually details Rasalhague, their military (at least mech forces) are pretty well balanced between lighter and heavier units.  The Lyrans supplied the Rasalhague resistance against Combine rule, maybe for centuries, including an entire assault-class mech regiment (the 1st Tyr).  I believe they also inherited considerable Combine material from the Rasalhague Regulars, the Combine mech brigade drawn from Rasalhague space.  They may have also gained significant salvage from the Ronin War, when other Combine regiments revolted against the Combine in protest of the loss of Rasalhague.  And the 20-Year Update explicitly states that Rasalhague purchases military material in equal amounts (to placate their much bigger neighbors) from the Lyrans and Combine.  Again, Zeuses paired with Dragons and Panthers paired with Commandos are explicitly mentioned.  And again, Rasalhague inherited factories for Archer, P-Hawk, and Panther mechs.  The only real shortage of material that I recall is that their version of the Rommel tank, the Axel, uses ICE engines instead of fusion, which reduces their speed to 3/5, from 4/6.  There was also a scenario in More Tales of the Black Widow where a cadet company was fielding all Panthers, but all lights is what you would expect for a training company.

Well, if MechWarrior 5 is to be believed, the Lyrans didn't exactly let the 1st Tyr go willingly.  Just recently played through Rise of Rasalhague, in fact, in part in prep for this.

And it's interesting to see what factories they've effectively captured from the Combine, but what does their output look like?  I know the books tend to leave that sort of thing vague, in part to give people like me freedom to play what we want, but the small part of my brain that constantly shouts "REALISM!" looks at this tiny breakaway nation and wonders:  who pays for all this?

Granted, building up their military as big and fast as possible would be a top priority.  The Rasalhagians know they're a ComStar/Combine compromise, a speed bump for the next time Hanse Davion is in conquering mood.  Realistically, if the Combine or FedCom wants them, there's nothing they can do about it.

As an aside, the more I think about it, the more Rasalhague as a buffer state is a stroke of genius.  Granting independence to the Rasalhague district essentially removes an excuse for war from the FedCom arsenal.  The Lyrans would doubtless be on board for a war to liberate their Scandinavian kin from an oppressive regime that refuses to allow them to openly practice their culture and heritage.  It removes a border between the Combine and FedCom, meaning if Hanse wants to concentrate troops he'll have to spend a fair amount of time getting them into position first.  And it allows the Combine to consolidate and focus on worlds that actually want to be there.  One could even argue the Ronin Wars were a boon, thinning the ranks of the old-school diehards of Honor Before Reason from the DCMS, letting Theodore recruit or promote warriors more accepting of his more flexible combat doctrine.  And, of course, it fractures the Inner Sphere further, which plays into ComStar's ultimate goals at this time.

In short, Rasalhague isn’t going to field multiple walls of steel like the Lyrans but they’re not running around in nothing but bug mechs either like the dregs from some bandit kingdom.

That's kind of what I was thinking.  Skewing more towards the average of medium 'Mechs than the extremes of "only Lights because that's all we can afford" and "only Assaults because when you're rich you don't have think about tactics."  Then again, if they're dividing their regiments up by general weight class, if I make them Drakons there's a built-in excuse to skew them heavy, which is what I tend to do anyway.

Even with the best 3025-tech, it’s hard to survive a stand-up engagement against typical Clan heavy cav balanced by BV or (worse) tonnage.  A lot comes down to the quality of the Clan mechs.  My company upthread can probably beat Hellbringers  and Kit Foxes.  But without some trick, it has little hope against Timberwolves and Stormcrows.

Yeah, not sure how these guys are actually going to fare against the Clans.  In my original story, House Northman was FedCom, and their first engagement with the Clans was one star against their assault-weighted command lance, its artillery vehicle backup, and their two AeroFighters.  And that Star had a Summoner, Dasher, and I think an Ice Ferret, Adder and Kit Fox, though I don't remember and failed to describe them well enough to tell.  Hugely weighted in favor of the protagonists, and they cleaned house, but the fighting elsewhere on the planet meant they still had to withdraw to get word.  I might do something similar, or not, we'll see what happens.  This unit may end up accidentally specializing in fighting retreats, slowing the Clans down long enough to withdraw deeper into FRR space.

I'm thinking their homeworld will be Dehgolan, since it stays with the Republic to, I believe, join the Rasalhague Dominion eventually.

I do have some interesting ideas on how they might get their hands on Clan tech relatively early, either during the ilKhan election or after Tukayyid.
« Last Edit: 24 September 2023, 04:27:11 by ErikModi »

Natasha Kerensky

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #36 on: 24 September 2023, 10:25:44 »
Yeah, saw those when I was looking into Rasalhague's military and political structure on Sarna.  Thought it odd they apparently divide 'Mech divisions up by weight, since in the novel "Malicious Intent" an officer being yassigned a company of light 'Mechs is seen as a huge aberration.  To quote, "They invented a do-nothing unit for him!"

It’s not unusual in the BT universe as a whole.  The SLDF had Heavy Assault, Battle, and Striker regiments for their divisions and Dragoon, Hussar, and Light Horse regiments for their independent formations.  The FedRats have their Assault, Heavy, and Light Davion Guards.  Clanners have assault, battle, and striker clusters.  Entire light brigades like the Deneb Light Cavalry and the Amphigean Light Assault Group exist.  Etc.

I don’t know that Malicious Intent passage but since that’s a Falcon vs Lyran novel, I would guess that passage reflects Lyran biases against lighter units more than military organization in the universe as a whole.  The Rasalhagians might have inherited some of that bias, but after centuries of guerrilla warfare, I suspect they appreciate speed and stealth as much as any other military.

Quote
Though I guess that would be a general trend rather than a hard rule. . . Kavalleri skew towards the light end but have a few heavies and assaults, Drakons skew towards heavy and assault but have a few lights.

Yeah, that’s my assumption as well.  If you look at the TO&E for the ELH in the original Merc’s Handbook, even the Light Horse regiments had a heavy/assault battalion backing up a couple light/medium battalions.

Quote
That's because you're a devious old maid, my friend. :grin:

Convincing old Tor Miraborg to stand down was Phelan’s doing.  I don’t recall if it was Natasha or Ulric who sent him.

Quote
Well, if MechWarrior 5 is to be believed, the Lyrans didn't exactly let the 1st Tyr go willingly.  Just recently played through Rise of Rasalhague, in fact, in part in prep for this.

I don’t know MW5, but the idea that the Lyrans supported a guerrilla movement by sending it an assault regiment is funny and typically Lyran.  The MW5 plot probably makes more sense.

Quote
And it's interesting to see what factories they've effectively captured from the Combine, but what does their output look like?  I know the books tend to leave that sort of thing vague, in part to give people like me freedom to play what we want, but the small part of my brain that constantly shouts "REALISM!" looks at this tiny breakaway nation and wonders:  who pays for all this?

Granted, building up their military as big and fast as possible would be a top priority.

It’s just a guess, but as a rule-of-thumb, I would assume that the closer and longer a unit has been in proximity to a mech factory, the more of that factory’s mechs show up in the unit.  Transportation costs more C-bills.  Buying from other states costs more C-bills.  All other things being equal, better to buy local.  Based on that, it would make sense for the Archer, P-Hawk- and Panther to be the most numerous models both inherited by, and still purchased by, the FRR.  Although I skipped the Panther for being too light (and slow) against Clanners, that’s why I doubled down on the Archer and P-Hawk upthread.

I wouldn’t worry about the state of the FRR’s finances at the outset of the Clan invasion.  Even if the government started off dead broke, they had 80-odd worlds — as much as any major province or march in the Successor States — to draw taxes from over the next couple decades.  They also had wealthy allies in ComStar and the Lyrans who could have given them a big bridge loan to get going.  Even if it doesn’t make sense, stuff like economics, resistance movements, etc. are determined by the needs of the plot, not by logic.  The FRR needs to exist, so it has access to federal funds somehow.

Of course, by the time the FRR is reduced to a half dozen planets right before/after Tukayyid, it would not be surprising if your unit has not getting paid on time (or at all) for a while.

Quote
The Rasalhagians know they're a ComStar/Combine compromise, a speed bump for the next time Hanse Davion is in conquering mood.  Realistically, if the Combine or FedCom wants them, there's nothing they can do about it.

Yeah, they’re obviously modeled on Cold War Sweden and Finland, which secretly worked with NATO and the West, but publicly put on a show of neutrality or appeasement for the Soviets.  Again, the 20-Year Update mentions that the FRR maintains an economic policy of equal trade with both the Combine and Commonwealth, a goofy position that only makes sense if you’re trying to appease a hungry bear or dragon on your border.  And then that shows up again in the description of the military’s mech models.

Quote
As an aside, the more I think about it, the more Rasalhague as a buffer state is a stroke of genius.  Granting independence to the Rasalhague district essentially removes an excuse for war from the FedCom arsenal.  The Lyrans would doubtless be on board for a war to liberate their Scandinavian kin from an oppressive regime that refuses to allow them to openly practice their culture and heritage.  It removes a border between the Combine and FedCom, meaning if Hanse wants to concentrate troops he'll have to spend a fair amount of time getting them into position first.  And it allows the Combine to consolidate and focus on worlds that actually want to be there.  One could even argue the Ronin Wars were a boon, thinning the ranks of the old-school diehards of Honor Before Reason from the DCMS, letting Theodore recruit or promote warriors more accepting of his more flexible combat doctrine.  And, of course, it fractures the Inner Sphere further, which plays into ComStar's ultimate goals at this time.

If you don’t have it, you should buy the PDF for the 20-Year Update.  Only $7.  Link in my prior post.

Quote
In my original story, House Northman

Great movie that more accurately depicts the Viking Age than any other.  I wish it had done better at the box office.

Scandinavian (my patrilineal line is Swedish) surname conventions are usually patronymic (Magnusson = Magnus’s son, Olafsdottir = Olaf’s daughter, etc.) or reference a locality or nature  (Berg = mountain, Holm = small island, Blomquist = flower twig, Wallgren = pasture branch, etc.).  There are exceptions, especially among former old and recent lines of nobility.  Nothing wrong with Northman, but that’s the general rule, FWIW.
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #37 on: 24 September 2023, 11:08:34 »
I’ve done some research in Rasalhague for my own fiction: FWIW the Rasalhague Regulars Brigade breaks down at an average weight of Medium/Heavy at the time of the Ronin War.

Four of their regiments were rated Assault units with another four split Assault/ X. Five Regiments weigh in at Heavy with one split Heavy/ X. Eight weigh in at Medium with two split Medium/ X. Finally Four Light and two split Light/ X.

Now those are just general listings from the Field Manuals of course. However the ‘newer’ Rasalhague units lean more heavily into the idea: the Tyr was a full Assault Regiment just gifted to them and they worked hard to maintain their ‘size’. But like all militaries things change: combat losses, equipment breakdowns, funding, etc lead to shifting of not homogenous forces anymore. 

Then you have to breakdown which units were loyal, which were rebel, mercenaries, gifted units, who absorbed who… the makeup of said units gets a bit confusing overall in the early days.

Basically anything Combine, Lyran, Merc, Periphery, ComStar (!), or just IS General can fit the list with the first two being the primary suppliers of gear.

The 20 Year update is good and so is FM Updates, while the Field Manual series (SLDF/ComStar that mention the FRR forces) are okay sources. Brush Wars gives a good breakdown of the Ronin War, while Field Report 2765: DCMS gives a page about the Rasalhague Regulars Brigade. Earlier Clan Invasion materials give a whole listing of FRR Militia units (Clan Wolf Sourcebook is a good one IIRC)

ErikModi

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #38 on: 24 September 2023, 12:24:38 »
I don’t know that Malicious Intent passage but since that’s a Falcon vs Lyran novel, I would guess that passage reflects Lyran biases against lighter units more than military organization in the universe as a whole.  The Rasalhagians might have inherited some of that bias, but after centuries of guerrilla warfare, I suspect they appreciate speed and stealth as much as any other military.

The character in question was a Davion loyalist who Katherine's hand-picked incompetents tried to boot from the service.  When he informed them he was fully aware that they couldn't legal order him to resign or discharge him without cause, they gave him four lances of light 'Mechs, and it's noted several times that recon company is a worthless formation.  Scouting's all well and good, but sooner or later you'll need to do something with all that intel, and light 'Mechs aren't suited to that, as a rule.  He was basically Reassigned To Antarctica, but pulled a Reassignment Backfire when he turned that light company into quite a formidable unit.

Convincing old Tor Miraborg to stand down was Phelan’s doing.  I don’t recall if it was Natasha or Ulric who sent him.

It was Natasha's bid against her Crusader Wolf rival:  one warrior to take the whole planet.

I don’t know MW5, but the idea that the Lyrans supported a guerrilla movement by sending it an assault regiment is funny and typically Lyran.  The MW5 plot probably makes more sense.

The 1st Tyr was a Lyran unit with Rasalhague sympathies, and their commander engages your merc unit a few times to help out before the FRR becomes a thing.  Once it does, the 1st Tyr join the FRR military, the Ronin Wars happen, and some Lyrans decide they don't want the Combine getting worlds that they could have, so you end up in a three-way shootout between your FRR allies, ronin, and Lyrans.  It was mostly some Tamar Pact nobles, I think, who wanted to lay claim to old Tamar Pact worlds in what would become the FRR.  But the Lyran general leading them makes some very pointed comments about the 1st Tyr being traitors, deserters, and in possession of stolen military equipment. . . but then again, that Lyran general was a doofus even by the usual standards of Lyran generals, and seemed to consider Amos Forlough a role model.

It’s just a guess, but as a rule-of-thumb, I would assume that the closer and longer a unit has been in proximity to a mech factory, the more of that factory’s mechs show up in the unit.  Transportation costs more C-bills.  Buying from other states costs more C-bills.  All other things being equal, better to buy local.  Based on that, it would make sense for the Archer, P-Hawk- and Panther to be the most numerous models both inherited by, and still purchased by, the FRR.  Although I skipped the Panther for being too light (and slow) against Clanners, that’s why I doubled down on the Archer and P-Hawk upthread.

That makes a lot of sense.  But. . . well, I just got out of a MegaMek game testing my initial force suggestion, and it was a disaster.  Is it just me, or is the PHawk-K a really bad design?  Taking off the jump jets really totals its speed armor.

Scandinavian (my patrilineal line is Swedish) surname conventions are usually patronymic (Magnusson = Magnus’s son, Olafsdottir = Olaf’s daughter, etc.) or reference a locality or nature  (Berg = mountain, Holm = small island, Blomquist = flower twig, Wallgren = pasture branch, etc.).  There are exceptions, especially among former old and recent lines of nobility.  Nothing wrong with Northman, but that’s the general rule, FWIW.

Very Scandinavian (mostly Swedish) myself.  That is the general trend, yeah, and I debated about names for a good long while before settling on Northman.  I can easily imagine it came about due to some of the settlements in the Viking Age.  "Who's that?"  "Lars."  "Lars who?"  "Lars, the north man."  Eventually, his name just semi-officially became "Lars Northman," and he passed it down.  I think part of the reason I picked it is because, as the most generic, unremarkable surname for Scandinavian descendants I could think of, it becomes funny that they're now nobility.  Like having the Noble House of Thatcher, or Turner, or Smith (professional surnames for one who thatches roofs, turns bowls on a lathe, or smiths metal).  They might be nobility now, but the name shows that once upon a time, they very much weren't.

Natasha Kerensky

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #39 on: 24 September 2023, 13:14:16 »
That makes a lot of sense.  But. . . well, I just got out of a MegaMek game testing my initial force suggestion, and it was a disaster.  Is it just me, or is the PHawk-K a really bad design?  Taking off the jump jets really totals its speed armor.

I think the -1K is better than the base -1 model.  Thicker armor (as much as the 55 tonners from that time), no explosive ammo, and enough heat sinks to alpha strike and run with no negative heat modifiers.  It’s not a typical P-Hawk that can easily jump out of danger.  But pairing the -1K with jumpy partners that can do the stick and jab (or heavy partners that can stand and deliver) while it runs in for the slashing alpha strike at 6 hexes or under works well.  That’s why I put a couple of them with the Wolverine -1K and Griffin -1S.

Like several 3025 variants, the FedRats get the best in the -1D, which retains the jump while upping the heat sinks. 

Gorton Kingsley Thorpe eventually starts building the -3K in 3050 which would seem to indicate that they were building the -1K before that for the FRR and the Combine.  But if you need your P-Hawks to be jumpy, there’s nothing wrong with saying GKT is building the plain old -1 model.
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Hellraiser

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #40 on: 24 September 2023, 14:11:12 »
Based on the RATs for the DC, my guess would be they Produce both models on different production runs, OR, they factory produce the 1 & issue field refit kits to A-Grade units for the 1K or upgrade them during maintenance cycles.


All 3 of the 3025 P-Hawks bring something to the table that the other's don't.

The Base model has more close in firepower for No Heat & can wipe out infantry.

The D-Model is a bit more durable thanks to no ammo & is a better ranged striker for killing mechs at the expense of infantry killing & bonus damage.

The K is debatable as the best v/s D & is a real "team player" for pure anti-mech killing w/ its extra armor & heatsinks.
Yes, it lacks the ability to play the cheesy "bounce around" game but also can't overheat the way the D still can.
It's more deadly in the hands of an experienced player that doesn't need JJ to stay alive, IMO.

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Caesar Steiner for Archon

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #41 on: 25 September 2023, 14:33:42 »
if MechWarrior 5 is to be believed

The game didn't consider Hesperus II to be an industrial world, why would you ever believe it?


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Hellraiser

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #42 on: 27 September 2023, 18:52:44 »
The line about a "Light Company" is due to how mech doctrine works.

Yes, you do have "Light Regiments" or "Assault Regiments" across a nation, but the typical "Medium" Regiment has a lot of "Medium" Companies that are an average of "Medium" in weight, but the way they are set up is to have 3 lances of 2 Medium/Heavy & 1 Light.

He's talking about independent Mech Company operations.

You need a Recon Lance to find something for the Fire/Battle lances to attack & destroy.

The unit he was in was a Recon Company, and its because the other 2 Company Commanders had transferred out their own Light mechs to the 3rd company that the Protagonist of the story is commander of.  Thus an entire company of bug mechs which had no tactical use as an independent unit.

It might work as a company in support of an entire regiment to have a "raider" unit, but by itself, a bug company isn't conquering much.

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

ErikModi

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #43 on: 29 September 2023, 18:08:40 »
The line about a "Light Company" is due to how mech doctrine works.

Yes, you do have "Light Regiments" or "Assault Regiments" across a nation, but the typical "Medium" Regiment has a lot of "Medium" Companies that are an average of "Medium" in weight, but the way they are set up is to have 3 lances of 2 Medium/Heavy & 1 Light.

He's talking about independent Mech Company operations.

You need a Recon Lance to find something for the Fire/Battle lances to attack & destroy.

The unit he was in was a Recon Company, and its because the other 2 Company Commanders had transferred out their own Light mechs to the 3rd company that the Protagonist of the story is commander of.  Thus an entire company of bug mechs which had no tactical use as an independent unit.

It might work as a company in support of an entire regiment to have a "raider" unit, but by itself, a bug company isn't conquering much.

And yet, Doc's Titans were the key to securing victory over the Jade Falcons on Coventry, performing a successful raid and giving the allied forces that arrived to a potential meat-grinder an excuse to have their opening bid be for Doc to offer hegira, since the last action on the planet was a Jade Falcon defeat engineered by Doc, so he could grant them safe passage off the planet.  Sometimes, even if you have nothing, if you use it well you can still win.

I am not the master of the light 'Mech Doc was, so I shall run heavy.

Caesar Steiner for Archon

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #44 on: 29 September 2023, 18:29:02 »
The line about a "Light Company" is due to how mech doctrine works.

Yes, you do have "Light Regiments" or "Assault Regiments" across a nation, but the typical "Medium" Regiment has a lot of "Medium" Companies that are an average of "Medium" in weight, but the way they are set up is to have 3 lances of 2 Medium/Heavy & 1 Light.

He's talking about independent Mech Company operations.

You need a Recon Lance to find something for the Fire/Battle lances to attack & destroy.

The unit he was in was a Recon Company, and its because the other 2 Company Commanders had transferred out their own Light mechs to the 3rd company that the Protagonist of the story is commander of.  Thus an entire company of bug mechs which had no tactical use as an independent unit.

It might work as a company in support of an entire regiment to have a "raider" unit, but by itself, a bug company isn't conquering much.



The thing that's dumb about that line is that Lyrans might look down on someone for commanding a company of lights but they definitely wouldn't act like it's some idea that was made up just to dunk on some idiot. When Doc hears about the recon company he goes "oh man they made that idea up as a joke!" But it's just a Lightning Company. Katrina Steiner invented them and they have been standard operating doctrine for all LCAF units since the 4th Succession War. But hey, it was Malicious Intent and that's the same book that also make Focht look like a complete moron (and Victor too, but Victor is always stupid) because Stackpole didn't read other people's work.


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Minemech

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #45 on: 29 September 2023, 18:57:16 »
 Actually, the doctrine of the states is more complex than that. They have assets that they attach to regiments as needed, including mech companies. The pure Assassin lances of the FWLM would be one example. I think that Lightning Companies were definitely part of Lyran doctrine, though they may not necessarily have been in the core regiment of the RCT.

 EDIT: By this I mean they are not part of the battalions that make up the regiment.
« Last Edit: 29 September 2023, 19:09:48 by Minemech »

Ice Hellion

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #46 on: 30 September 2023, 00:19:15 »
The pure Assassin lances of the FWLM would be one example.

I never read about that.
Could you tell me what is your reference?
In turn they tested each Clan namesake
In trial against the ice hellion's mettle.
Each chased the ice hellion, hunting it down.
All faild to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said. "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance, Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1-5

truetanker

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #47 on: 30 September 2023, 07:20:57 »
OG write up, TRO:3025...

It's heavily overlooked, Marik loved to use them and had great success with the Assassin during the late period of the 3rd SW, until their numbers ran out.

Meaning half to a third of each Harasser Lance was made up of them...

After all Maltex was in FWL space.

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Ice Hellion

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #48 on: 01 October 2023, 09:10:36 »
OG write up, TRO:3025...

Thanks. I found it. They also wrote that these lances were mostly used against the rearguard area of the FWL opponents.
In turn they tested each Clan namesake
In trial against the ice hellion's mettle.
Each chased the ice hellion, hunting it down.
All faild to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said. "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance, Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1-5

Caesar Steiner for Archon

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #49 on: 02 October 2023, 17:30:20 »
Actually, the doctrine of the states is more complex than that. They have assets that they attach to regiments as needed, including mech companies. The pure Assassin lances of the FWLM would be one example. I think that Lightning Companies were definitely part of Lyran doctrine, though they may not necessarily have been in the core regiment of the RCT.

 EDIT: By this I mean they are not part of the battalions that make up the regiment.

I mean, I wouldn't mind if they wanted to retcon that all LCAF units had an extra company or more at all times. My 2nd Donegal BattleMech Regiment could go from 132 mechs to 144. But the entry on the 7th Donegal makes me think they count as a normal company, otherwise they'd be listed as a Reinforced Regiment.


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Minemech

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #50 on: 02 October 2023, 22:26:36 »
I mean, I wouldn't mind if they wanted to retcon that all LCAF units had an extra company or more at all times. My 2nd Donegal BattleMech Regiment could go from 132 mechs to 144. But the entry on the 7th Donegal makes me think they count as a normal company, otherwise they'd be listed as a Reinforced Regiment.
In the end it is the better approach. I have no problem with the Lyran Commonwealth making intelligent military decisions, I want all the Battletech militaries to do so. I accept that mediocrity does occur for a variety of reasons, sometimes necessitated.

O5P_Ghost

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #51 on: 05 October 2023, 12:03:45 »
That could be fun.

Aren't Panthers kind of. . . barely better than UrbanMechs?

HERESEY! The Panther is the king of the light mechs. Sure she's slow but mass 4 PPC's on a target and they'll know they've been hit. SRM4s aren't something to sneeze at. I mean sure, have 4 of them in an open field and you get what's coming to you but in an urban or built-up terrain, those 4 jump jets and 13 heat sinks work wonders. Just remember to keep them together in a unit and don't split up. Concentrate forward batteries.

(this is for 3025--after the introduction of XL and ES/FF there are better light mechs)
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MarauderD

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #52 on: 05 October 2023, 13:14:19 »
Ballistic Reinforced armor makes Panthers interesting in the ilClan Era.  I'd still want some traditional zippy backstabbing lights, but a couple pocket mediums that can take a Gauss round and keep on going never hurts.

O5P_Ghost

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #53 on: 05 October 2023, 17:15:09 »
The 14R is indeed nasty but I like the Wight too in the Jihad/DA esp. the 2SC for urban combat
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Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #54 on: 08 October 2023, 10:00:54 »
HERESEY! The Panther is the king of the light mechs. Sure she's slow but mass 4 PPC's on a target and they'll know they've been hit. SRM4s aren't something to sneeze at. I mean sure, have 4 of them in an open field and you get what's coming to you but in an urban or built-up terrain, those 4 jump jets and 13 heat sinks work wonders. Just remember to keep them together in a unit and don't split up. Concentrate forward batteries.

(this is for 3025--after the introduction of XL and ES/FF there are better light mechs)

For pretty light BV I can get a PPC onto the field in a light mech. At 4/6/4 it’s not the fastest but it can maneuver around to use that PPC. If I get close I’ve got a backup SRM-4: no joke at all (I’d prefer a laser based weapon but that’s what customs are for). The newer versions I wish had speed boosts but any that keep the basic principle are pretty decent.

Minemech

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #55 on: 08 October 2023, 21:01:23 »
But the entry on the 7th Donegal makes me think they count as a normal company, otherwise they'd be listed as a Reinforced Regiment.
I have thought about this statement, and my admittingly non-canonical conclusion is that a reinforced regiment is only so within the confines of a state's practices. Under this logic, if the norm would be to have an attached company, then it would not be reinforced but simply be considered an attachment. This view has a mixed record in Battletech. 

Minemech

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #56 on: 08 October 2023, 21:36:46 »
Thanks. I found it. They also wrote that these lances were mostly used against the rearguard area of the FWL opponents.
If it interests you, the original Hermes II fluff had a story about how the FWLM used mechs to monitor troop movements, and supply chains to determine where an invasion was coming from. In that case it was a response to intelligence (Likely the SAFE Analysis branch, plausibly supported by recon lances on other worlds. Military Intelligence was also possible), and the Dark Shadows were deployed for monitoring worlds suitable for such actions.

Caesar Steiner for Archon

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #57 on: 09 October 2023, 13:56:35 »
I have thought about this statement, and my admittingly non-canonical conclusion is that a reinforced regiment is only so within the confines of a state's practices. Under this logic, if the norm would be to have an attached company, then it would not be reinforced but simply be considered an attachment. This view has a mixed record in Battletech.

I think they're a standard part of the roster (I did it that way when I was organizing my minis for the 2nd Donegal) but it would explain why the 7th was one of the two units that made it through the whole Jihad. 132 mechs for a standard RCT plus 36 more is a LOT of throw weight.


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Hellraiser

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #58 on: 16 October 2023, 12:53:20 »
The thing that's dumb about that line is that Lyrans might look down on someone for commanding a company of lights but they definitely wouldn't act like it's some idea that was made up just to dunk on some idiot. When Doc hears about the recon company he goes "oh man they made that idea up as a joke!" But it's just a Lightning Company. Katrina Steiner invented them and they have been standard operating doctrine for all LCAF units since the 4th Succession War.
I think it comes down to they were never "liked".
Oh, Katrina had her fans of the AFFS in the LCAF but much of the line units still believed in their "bigger is better" model.

The wording on Sarna makes it seem like they are an independent company for the regiment, not part of any of the 3 battalions.
Not sure that matches other fluff but its what I'm seeing on Sarna.
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3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

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Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Caesar Steiner for Archon

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #59 on: 16 October 2023, 14:24:13 »
I think it comes down to they were never "liked".
Oh, Katrina had her fans of the AFFS in the LCAF but much of the line units still believed in their "bigger is better" model.

The wording on Sarna makes it seem like they are an independent company for the regiment, not part of any of the 3 battalions.
Not sure that matches other fluff but its what I'm seeing on Sarna.

Like I said: it's not that people wouldn't look down on them, it's that nobody would go "a recon COMPANY? That's a totally new idea that someone made up to make these people look stupid." But this is Malicious Intent we're talking about, a book that relies a lot on "Stackpole simply didn't know this and nobody bothered to correct him" so we get Focht and Victor revealing themselves as complete dopes.


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Hellraiser

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #60 on: 20 October 2023, 11:31:14 »
It might also be that the Lightning Company was more a "Striker" formation & the Titans were truly "Recon".

They were all 20-25 tons pretty much weren't they?   (Long time since I've read it)

Not a single Medium outside of the 2 Officers.

I would think a Lightning Company in the 4th SW would probably be packing a Lance of Griffin-1S & another of PhoenixHawk-1 in support of a single "Bug" lance.  Fast, but also with enough Firepower to threaten something.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Metallgewitter

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #61 on: 20 October 2023, 15:06:27 »
The "Recon Company" of the 10th Skye Rangers were indeed light Mechs. I think they consisted mostly of Locusts, Commandos and Firestarters plus the Centurion and Hunchback of the CO and his aide.

But weren't Lightning companies something more akin to strikers with a punch? I would think in the line of maybe at least one lance of Blitzkrieg's. Though I could have sworn that some also included freaking Fafnir's which doesn't sound exactly like Lightning but more like Thunder.

Caesar Steiner for Archon

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #62 on: 20 October 2023, 15:30:38 »
Looking over the 4SW Atlas, at the time the typical lightning company was two type 1 light lances and a type 2 light lance. A type 1 light lance is between 90 and 135 tons, all jump-capable and half of each lance armed with LRMs, while a type 2 light lance is 90 tons or less that is jump capable. The example formations given for each for Steiner are:

Type 1 - Whitworth x2, Stinger, Wasp
Type 2- Wasp x 2, Javelin, Stinger


Strike first. Strike hard. No mercy.

Hellraiser

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Re: Suggestions for a Rasalhague Unit?
« Reply #63 on: 24 October 2023, 15:41:20 »
Interesting.

Whitworths seem a little.......... slow & un-Lyran to be "standard" examples, to me anyway.

The Griffin on the other hand feels right at home.
Sadly that would be too big for the unit given the Light Lance tonnage limits.

Actually...
Griffin, Valkyrie, Valkyrie, Wasp totals 135 exactly.
as does Griffin, Assassin, Wasp, Wasp

To me they should pack 1-2 lances of "Fast Mediums" in them, being built around Griffins for that LRM requirement also seems good.

Griffin, Griffin, PhoenixHawk, Vulcan  (195t)
Griffin, Griffin, PhoenixHawk, Firestarter  (190t)
Wasp, Wasp, Stinger, Stinger  (80t)

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"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

 

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