Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST

[GreekFire]

Most likely the Stalker has so much heat generation it removes the special ability. Not 100% on this though.

Yep, that's exactly it.

[Valkerie]

Yep, that's exactly it.

Thanks for confirming that!  :thumbsup:

[Kerfuffin(925)]

Tomahawk II B
Movement code should be modified from 6” to 6”j

No idea on cost

[Empyrus]

The Tomahawk II B does not have jump jets. Only the C does. (And none of the Tomahawk Is jump.)

EDIT That said, the C is missing the jumpers. http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6306/tomahawk-ii-c

EDIT Correction, the B indeed has the Jump Jets and its AS card needs them. I had recorded the configurations in wrong order to my SSW database.
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6305/tomahawk-ii-b

EDIT This explains why i kept thinking IWM had the miniatures mislabeled.

[GreekFire]

Tomahawk II B
Movement code should be modified from 6” to 6”j

No idea on cost

Thanks, PV and movement adjusted both.

[nckestrel]

Enyo Strike Tank (LBX) “Sholef”

Movement is listed as 12”t, based on its record sheet from 3067:Unabridged it should be 10”. No change to TMM.

I looked at the errata thread for 3067U and there was no mention of 5/8 being wrong there

Fixed to 10"t and 36 PV.

[jasonf]

Here's a (hopefully) easy one:

Uller V: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7746/uller-kit-fox-v  -- should have Tech = "Advanced" (has Arrow IV artillery, also listed as such in RG-11). Also, should era be LSW-LosTech? (Intro year is 2921)

[GreekFire]

Here's a (hopefully) easy one:

Uller V: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7746/uller-kit-fox-v  -- should have Tech = "Advanced" (has Arrow IV artillery, also listed as such in RG-11). Also, should era be LSW-LosTech? (Intro year is 2921)

Thanks, fixed.
Your other post hasn't been forgotten, by the way. We're just working out some of the fine details.

[Sartris]

Sometimes one reference turns into a matryoshka doll of problems

[jasonf]

Your other post hasn't been forgotten, by the way. We're just working out some of the fine details.

Sometimes one reference turns into a matryoshka doll of problems

No worries! I figured a couple of those might take a while to iron out.

[Nahuris]

Quick question, to my knowledge, omnis cannot change their armor -- and yet, the Badger Prime tank has 4 armor, and the rest of the configurations have 3.....

I checked the Badger C, and they all have 3, just in case there was a mix up..... is that correct? I checked the weapons weight, and all the others are the same for equipment totals, so am wondering if that was an error??

Nahuris

[Sartris]

looks like a data entry error

[Sartris]

Aerospace fighters:
1. Trident TRN-3U: TR3050U fluff suggests that this is the downgraded version that can still be found in the "periphery, backwater militias, and independent states" as of 3070, so probably not extinct? (I would guess available to Periphery-General for LSW-LT, LSW-R, and maybe Clan Invasion eras?)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5277/trident-trn-3u

the 3050U fluff gives this guy one additional era of longevity. it's assumed that the Outworlds/Raven Alliance stock of tridents noted to be used as training aircraft will have been 100% upgraded to the 3T by 3085

2. Rogue RGU-133P: I think this is supposed to the the unsuccessful Lyran PPC variant referenced in its TR3050U fluff. So, a) probably not available to Comstar (Intro date is 2821), and instead available to Steiner from ESW on? (and maybe even extinct at some point, too?)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2734/rogue-rgu-133p

changed to lyran exclusive. extinct by 3060

3. Hellcat-213D, Hellcat HCT-213S: According to TR3075 fluff, Steiner *and* Davion should have access to both of these variants. I'm pretty sure "S" references space-superiority, and "D" references DropShip, not the usual "Steiner" and "Davion" variants. (In other words, both should probably have the same availability as HCT-213R)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4296/hellcat-hct-213d
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5539/hellcat-hct-213s   

while the observation about the meaning of the designations is correct, it's not considered enough to warrant a change. chalk it up to coincidence that the davions kept up the D variant and that the lyrans kept up the S variant.

4. Chippewa CHP-W7: This is an SLDF LosTech variant that was reintroduced just prior to the Clan invasion [TR3039 fluff], so it should should either be: A) extinct prior to Clan Invasion era (then available as specified thereafter), or B) available only to Comstar prior to the Clan Invasion era, with Comstar, WoB also having availability from Clan Invasion thru Jihad (since it has a SF-era Intro year)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/586/chippewa-chp-w7

The unauthorized and widespread distribution of lostech has been contained. this should only be available to comstar through the late succession wars. standard distribution remains beginning with the clan invasion       

discussion ongoing on the dropships

[Kerfuffin(925)]

In Rec Guide 07 the Stormcrow P variant has the Republic Era symbol on its record sheet. In the MUL it has its ability listed as from 3049 onward. Which one of these is correct?

Ignore that. I just checked the errata threads for the reg guides and see that has been addressed.

[GreekFire]

Ok, here's what I have for all aerospace! I actually didn't have too much for fighters themselves. Mostly dropships, jumpships, and warships.

5. Fury - We concur.
6. Leopard (PPC) - Availabilities adjusted.
7. Gazelle (2531) - We concur.
8. Intruder (Liao) - Availabilities adjusted.
9. Vulture - Things we a bit mixed up here, for sure. Fixed.
10. Condor (3054) - We concur.
11. Vengeance (3056) - FWL added, FedSuns remain.
12. Mammoth (2658) - Fixed to respect tech extinction.
13. Scout JumpShip - We concur.
14. Tramp JumpShip - A new variant has been created to deal with this issue.
15. Whirlwind (2606) - We concur.
16. Duplicates - Totally right.

[Kerfuffin(925)]

Rogue Bear (Hybrid) is listed at 2 tons (an assault suit) when the other Rouge Bears are listed at 1.5 tons (Heavy).

TRO Prototypes also lists the suit as heavy (1.5t)

[GreekFire]

Rogue Bear (Hybrid) is listed at 2 tons (an assault suit) when the other Rouge Bears are listed at 1.5 tons (Heavy).

TRO Prototypes also lists the suit as heavy (1.5t)

Thanks, fixed.

[jasonf]

The unauthorized and widespread distribution of lostech has been contained. this should only be available to comstar through the late succession wars. standard distribution remains beginning with the clan invasion       

I hope I didn't get any aerospace pilots or naval procurement guys fired on this one...  :-[

14. Tramp JumpShip - A new variant has been created to deal with this issue.

I didn't realize you guys had this power!

[Sartris]

it's our means of last resort when we get boxed in by an interaction of canon materials that don't give much for wiggle room. we recently added a mackie variant because the first non-primitive version had to appear before the AC/20 existed

[CVB]

Chameleon TRC-4B
The MUL lists the TRC-4B only for the Capellan Confederation during the SL era. According to TRO Succession Wars p. 78, it was produced at the  Hesperus II facilities, a Terran Hegemony/Lyran Commonwealth joint production site "since the 2500s, with total production numbers running somewhere in the tens of thousands". Shouldn't at least the TH and LC have access added, maybe even "IS General" like from the early SW era on?


Cyclops CP-10-Z
The MUL lists the CP-10-z during the SL era for the Draconis Combine, the Federated Suns, Rim Worlds and even the Taurian Concordat, but not for the SLDF and the other SL members. According to TRO SW p. 168, the Cyclops resulted from an SLDF request and was manufactured from the early 2700s on Caph, then a Terran Hegemony planet. Shouldn't the SLDF and the Terran Hegemony get access added, maybe even IS General?

Ostsol OTL-4D
The MUL lists the OTL-4D for the SL era for the Federated Suns, the Free Worlds League, Mercenaries and even Periphery General.
According to TRO39 p. 292, it was produced on Connaught, then a Terran Hegemony planet from 2694 when "Kong-manufactured Ostsols were entering service with SLDF Dragoon and Hussar regiments. More were sold to the League Member States after 2752". Shouldn't the OTL-4D also be available for the SLDF and IS General?


UrbanMech UM-R60
The MUL lists the UM-R60 for the SL era only for the Capellan Confederation. According to TRO SW p. 30, the "UrbanMech was used by the Star League to suppress urban guerrillas..." Edit: It was in production on Marcus, then a Terran Hegemony planet.
Shouldn't the UM-R60 be added as available to the SLDF?


Striker STC-2C
Should the availability for the STC-2c removed from the "Star League Royal" category? According to TRO3058U, p.222 it was "the  first assault ’Mech commissioned by the SLDF Quartermaster Command for specific use with non-Terran Hegemony SLDF forces", which should exclude Royal units.

Tramp JumpShip (SW Downgrade)
Most units with unclear intro dates have been standardized to "Unknown" or a small selection of eras like "ES", "PS" "circa 2300" etc. (Thanks for that!) Only the newly created downgraded Tramp seems to have escaped this treatment and still lists intro date as "0". Should be changed to "Unknown".

Edit: added argument for UM-60R being available for the SLDF/TH
Edit2 for clarification

[Decoy]

IS General and Mercenary you mean. Mercenaries do not have access to the IS general list.

[Empyrus]

IS General and Mercenary you mean. Mercenaries do not have access to the IS general list.

That seems like a matter of interpretation, perhaps depending on the era. During the Star League, before mercs rose to prominence? Sure.

At least i always figured there should be no reason why mercs wouldn't be able to use IS General list. Mercs list seems to exists because there's a bunch of House designs sold to mercs but not to other houses.

[Sartris]

That seems like a matter of interpretation, perhaps depending on the era. During the Star League, before mercs rose to prominence? Sure.

At least i always figured there should be no reason why mercs wouldn't be able to use IS General list. Mercs list seems to exists because there's a bunch of House designs sold to mercs but not to other houses.

mercs do not ever draw directly from the IS general list (their assigned general list is called "Blank General," which does not require imagination to guess the contents). much of the IS General list is copied over to the merc list, but not all. a missing merc tag from something otherwise on the IS General list simply means not enough mercs field one to make the cut of "several examples in several formations". such an addition wouldn't be unheard of, but it would be noted as unusual.

[nckestrel]

That seems like a matter of interpretation, perhaps depending on the era. During the Star League, before mercs rose to prominence? Sure.

At least i always figured there should be no reason why mercs wouldn't be able to use IS General list. Mercs list seems to exists because there's a bunch of House designs sold to mercs but not to other houses.

The MUL has definitions for what IS General and Mercenaries mean, and they do not overlap. What you want to do with that information is up to you, but what the MUL means when it says something is not up to interpretation.

[Daryk]

Are these definitions posted somewhere?  i don't recall seeing them...

[nckestrel]

On the factions page, everything under a main heading is what makes up that General list.
The Inner Sphere General list means all the factions listed under Inner Sphere have it (assuming that faction is in that era).
Mercenaries are not under Inner Sphere, so they are not included when something says Inner Sphere General, but not Mercenaries.

[Daryk]

Thanks for the clarification!  :thumbsup:

[Sartris]

It should be noted in practice, at least with mechs, that while mercs don’t use the IS general list, much of it is is copied to their own. The Venn diagram isn’t a perfect circle but there is far more in common than not. This allows for a certain level of separation, especially with non mech units like support vees or exotic units that end up on the general list like the old dual cockpit variants

[Daryk]

That seems to be a disctinction driven by expense rather than availability...  ???

[Sartris]

The granularity of the mul doesn't care about that. We’re only determining who has what in sufficient numbers to be representative. You can figure out the whys in your own applications of the universe