Will Catalyst produce and sell more plastic miniature sets?

[Marc C]

The title says it all. Really enjoying the look of the new plastic miniatures. Definitely an upgrade in terms of look. Locally we never considered this game because of the previous sculpts. Now there is a buzz. Do we know if Catalyst will make the models available in blisters or even box sets so we don't have to buy the two boxes that came out to get extra copies of the Mechs. Also, do they have a 2019 release schedule for more Mechs models, tanks, infantry, etc?

[Empyrus]

We don't know.

The box sets seem to be selling well, so that's a positive thing.

IIRC, CGL has first claim on classic minis (ie in plastic form) before IWM makes them in metal, and we've yet to see those now freed from lawsuits, so i'd imagine CGL wants to get them out in some way.

I wouldn't expect tanks and infantry though, regardless of anything else, not anytime soon.

EDIT Previous lance packs didn't sell particularly quick, so i reckon TPTB might not be too keen on trying again. Then again, new sculpts... then again, they're unpainted miniatures-only "expansions" for a game that isn't really miniature driven.

[Sartris]

I suspect there will be another box but that’s just my really poor intuition talking. I would expect to hear something closer to con season

[JPArbiter]

We will know when Catalyst is ready to share

[General308]

I doubt it the alpha strike box sets didn't sell well.  Although I don't know why when they do a box set they don't also sell the box set minis by them selfs.  Seems like you have people buy multiple box sets just for the minis.  But I am guessing since the last box set minis didn't sell well it is hard to justify

[nckestrel]

Tie box sets were being sold at a loss. The AS lance packs weren’t (at least intended to be).  But I don’t think the sculpts and duplicates were good enough to justify a cost that made money.  I think these new ones are.  And a set of Warhammers, Marauders, Archers, Phoenix Hawks, stinger, etc would do really well.
I’m fairly confident we will see more, but they will need time to make sure it’s done well.

[Hellraiser]

What????

The 25th Anniversary & Atlas boxes were sold at a LOSS???   

I find that incredibly hard to believe.


As for the AS boxes,  aren't those the ones where the mini's are 1/2 size?   To me that would by why they didn't sell well.  They don't match the scale of the other 200 minis I own.


The one's that to me seemed like they wouldn't sell well would be the 4 mech boxes that had 2-4 duplicates of mechs that came in the beginners sets.

I know I didn't buy any of those because it wasn't worth getting my 4th Jenner just to get 1 Wolfhound,   etc etc....  At some point multiples just aren't needed.


If they actually had made a boxed set of JUST the mechs that were not in the main sets I would have been all over that.   Something like BlackJack, Ostroc, Firestarter, Raven as a striker lance would have been a big grab for me since I don't own entire lances of each of those.

[nckestrel]

They were viewed as necessary to get players to being BattleTech fans that bought books. Catalyst had/is primarily a company that made books.
No, the AS boxes were not a different size. Literally half (minus one) were exact duplicates of the 25th anniversary set minis, and half were “new”.  You are thinking of the battleforce branded minis.

[Colt Ward]

Yeah . . . if that is why you never bought any Hellraiser, you might want to correct that . . .

As for selling at a slight loss?  I will believe that- even if you take into account the quality improvement we went from 24 mechs +2 premiums down to 8 in the AC box, and it IS set to garner a small profit to keep the production cycles going.

[Sartris]

the primary indicator of whether the old box was an actual loss leader is if the new box actually stays in print. currently i buy that it was indeed a money sink because it took years after the supply had gone completely dry to get a new run.

[Hellraiser]

Ok,  I was thinking AS = BF for the boxed sets.

So the "AS" sets were just the new versions of the Lance Packs that where each box had 0-2 "new" & 2-4 "beginners" mechs in each box?

They had the same names as the 80's boxed sets IIRC but were made from the beginners mechs mostly.  (Assault, Heavy, etc etc?)

Either way neither of those options excited me.

The Factional ones didn't either,  I seem to recall seeing stuff like Liao Medium lance or something a while back.

I guess my issue was I never found a boxed set where even 3 of the 4 was stuff I wanted &/or didn't already own.

Of course that's probably just my issue of having too many already & not looking to just buy a bunch of duplicates or stuff for factions I don't play.

[SteelRaven]

... it's not the 80's anymore Hellraiser, it hasn't been for a long time.

[Sartris]

They were the 8 archetype lances in the Alpha Strike force building section - Assault, Battle, Support, Striker, Fire, Recon, Pursuit, and Command (not exactly the same as the RP boxes from the 80s but in that vein). Each had two repeats from the box and two new (except the striker lance that had three repeats). Honestly that's the biggest gripe I saw and perhaps one of the big drags on sales velocity. They saved money on molds but the repeats turned some people off.

There are a lot of people who don't want to bother with assembling minis and like plastic more than metal.

And a set of Warhammers, Marauders, Archers, Phoenix Hawks, stinger, etc would do really well.
I’m fairly confident we will see more, but they will need time to make sure it’s done well.

if the sculpts are the same quality as the new box sets they will sell, I imagine. The people want the classics.

[Bigkahuna]

Tie box sets were being sold at a loss. The AS lance packs weren’t (at least intended to be).  But I don’t think the sculpts and duplicates were good enough to justify a cost that made money.  I think these new ones are.  And a set of Warhammers, Marauders, Archers, Phoenix Hawks, stinger, etc would do really well.
I’m fairly confident we will see more, but they will need time to make sure it’s done well.

This is going to come off as me being very mean here, but in the interest of transparency and honesty the Alpha Strike Lance packs not selling should come to the surprise of no one.  I think the Battletech community has some sort of beer goggles when they look at the miniatures being produced for this game or something.  These Alpha Strike mini's were god awful, ugly, not even at the bottom of the barrel of what is an acceptable level of quality for release in the gaming markets today or even 15 years.  They would have sold more Alpha Strike Lance packs if they were cardboard stand ups to be frank. 

This box set they released for the core game now is the first time in 35 years that I have seen a miniature produced for this game that is worth purchasing.  Sadly, the success of Battletech's ambition to grow as a game, expand their profile and reach out to a larger community is entirely dependent on them producing better miniatures for the game going forward.  No amount of books and expanded content is going to do the trick, they must accept that Battletech is a miniatures game and the single most important thing for a miniature game is a steady release of high quality miniatures as is the standard set by today's competitive miniatures market.  E

Even that may not be enough as the competition in miniature market games is quite stiff.  The games rules for Battletech are fairly dated and while that has some nostalgic weight with gamers, in the end, I believe the games mechanics really need a refresher.  The game as it is, is simply way too long for a game that has so many rather randomizing mechanics.  It really needs a 2nd edition, that focuses on modernization and streamlining the rules a bit if you really want to appeal to the modern markets. 

[StoneRhino]

The problem is that the last boxed set sold out, and its highly likely that the bulk of those sales were to established BT fans. If your fanbase stuffs themselves on boxed sets and you then pump out lance packs with the same mechs, you can't expect them to eat those packs up.

We are talking about people that reach way back to the start of the game and up until now that have grown up with the same ol mechs. I'm looking at a stack of lance packs where I have several others that are already opened and in painting hell/limbo. Of these mechs i have metal copies from over 20 years ago. the last boxed set and lance packs have bumped up my 3025 collection and filled it out, but I'm not the typical fan that may buy 1 copy of a mech that I want. I have no desire for the new boxed sets in the sense that they are new mechs that I don't have. I have more awesomes then I know what to do with and I know there are those out there that will say they have a batalliion of Awesomes. I have more then I need because I am a group builder, so I have always had a need for more minis then I need for myself while others would buy a handful...if they felt like it.

The boxed sets filled the needs of most of the players because they were great deals and we knew the last boxed set sold out. Lance packs added very little that was new, even if we are looking at it from the point of view of a new player. There were several designs that were left out of those packs, which cut down on some sales for those looking for additional hunchbacks, enforcers, and commandos. Had they announced that the mechs would all be in lance packs then it might have eased the purchases of boxed sets. They failed to do so , which may have added a percent of additional desire for the boxed sets over lance packs.

Had the lance packs been filled with mechs not in the boxed sets that would have boosted sale. The timing was also off. Had the lance packs been available at the same time as the boxed sets, and they had the same minis in each, there would have been less demand on boxed sets, which would have helped me make a few sales for a local shop, which could have expanded the playerbase. Instead I saw the interest drain from the eyes of those I had to say "no they are out of production ..but..." when asked about starter boxes. People apparently need starter boxes

Basically what is needed are a few lance packs that have new mechs in them. If you can't get them by purchasing yet another starter box, and the minis are not in pewter for 3X years, then you need to buy those lance packs. If they are mechs that are stuffed into BT history and given variants that reach most if not all eras of play, you increase the demand for those minis as its not a 3025 only or current era thing. Its not a matter of "do I really need a new sculpt of X design from 3025 that I have 30 of already?"

I like...well I Love the lance packs. It helped me go from getting 1 copy of each mini to hitting a point where I am painting in game units. As I have mentioned in other threads, that gets far more attention then randomly painted minis. Not only do more people stop at the table, but they spend more time looking, but are also more inclined to ask questions or make a comment to their friend in a hushed tone pointing to minis and making hand gestures suggesting that they are trying to analyze their likely moves even though they don't know the game's mechanics.

Hopefully CGL will include something new for established and new players in any future lance packs. A mini rules book like the CCG used to have would be kinda nice, which could be supplemented by an online addition to help reduce the printing costs.

[Hellraiser]

Excellent point about timing SR.

I think a starter box is important but maybe not the the point of producing it at a loss & then having them gobbled up by vets looking for minis on the cheap.

Having those 4 mech lance packs released at the same time would have been a big deal if they had a bit of a group discount rate for buying 4 mechs and were seen as an alternative to buying a 2nd (3rd+) boxed set.

I like the new sculpts but I'm trying not to buy the new boxes since I own all those mechs in other forms, but, including the new fiction in them makes me want to gobble up 1 of each as well.

[General308]

Tie box sets were being sold at a loss. The AS lance packs weren’t (at least intended to be).  But I don’t think the sculpts and duplicates were good enough to justify a cost that made money.  I think these new ones are.  And a set of Warhammers, Marauders, Archers, Phoenix Hawks, stinger, etc would do really well.
I’m fairly confident we will see more, but they will need time to make sure it’s done well.

This goes back to the problem.  Existing players buy up tons of box sets.  Which is a loss for Catylst.  What they should do is a presell for just the minis for existing players.  That way the existing players do not buy up all the box sets.       

[nckestrel]

This goes back to the problem.  Existing players buy up tons of box sets.  Which is a loss for Catalyst.  What they should do is a presell for just the minis for existing players.  That way the existing players do not buy up all the box sets.     

It's always easier to take risks with somebody else's money. A full box set print run and a full mini production run on top of it are great for players, a really bad idea if the market decides it's not worth it and leaves you holding a bunch of overpriced minis you can't sell. Because that's the assumption here, otherwise we're just pulling minis out of box sets and making fewer box sets, and that's not going to create more box sets for new players..
CGL had a plan for how much they thought they could afford to make, and more importantly plans to ensure the margins (selling price - production cost) would ensure they could keep printing it.
As my favorite quote from Mitch of HBS goes, the answer to almost every "can you do X?" is "In success."  With how the box sets are going, I am hopeful we will see more options.  Whether it will be packs of minis only, another box set with different minis, etc, I don't know.  It may depend on how the separate map packs sell (if they don't sell well, another box set may be necessary to make expanding the game, including maps, feasible). But they needed to ensure this (these) box sets went well before getting into "let's make more products!" I am enthusiastically awaiting those next steps now :).

[General308]

It's always easier to take risks with somebody else's money. A full box set print run and a full mini production run on top of it are great for players, a really bad idea if the market decides it's not worth it and leaves you holding a bunch of overpriced minis you can't sell. Because that's the assumption here, otherwise we're just pulling minis out of box sets and making fewer box sets, and that's not going to create more box sets for new players..
CGL had a plan for how much they thought they could afford to make, and more importantly plans to ensure the margins (selling price - production cost) would ensure they could keep printing it.
As my favorite quote from Mitch of HBS goes, the answer to almost every "can you do X?" is "In success."  With how the box sets are going, I am hopeful we will see more options.  Whether it will be packs of minis only, another box set with different minis, etc, I don't know.  It may depend on how the separate map packs sell (if they don't sell well, another box set may be necessary to make expanding the game, including maps, feasible). But they needed to ensure this (these) box sets went well before getting into "let's make more products!" I am enthusiastically awaiting those next steps now :).

Or you do a kickstarter and you presell those mini packs and you solve the problem. 

[Weirdo]

Preselling seems like an incredibly unlikely approach, given Catalyst's experiences with plastics manufacturers. Once bitten, twice shy, and they've been bitten a lot more than once. Just because these boxes seem to have gone smoothly is no reason to assume future ones will also.

[Hellraiser]

Have any of the starter boxes NOT sold well?   They seem to be out of stock for years at a time. 

I mean, even the first "new" boxed set, the one before the 25th anniversary was gone in days/weeks it seemed like.

[nckestrel]

Have any of the starter boxes NOT sold well?   They seem to be out of stock for years at a time. 

I mean, even the first "new" boxed set, the one before the 25th anniversary was gone in days/weeks it seemed like.

They have sold well, as far as we can tell.  And AS lance packs apparently did not. Therefore the hesitation is saying yes CGL should do less box sets and sell minis separately.  I think the problem with the AS lance packs was the lowered value expectations set by the old box sets combined with the less than exciting sculpts/duplicates. 
And certainly plenty of people have commented on the current box set being less of a value. How much that would “hurt” sales was very much a question prior to their release. And one that wasn’t really going to get an answer until they were released and had time to settle in to long-term sales. 
I think we are seeing it, so I have hopeful of seeing more products like them. But yes, there were questions going in.

[Sigil]

If you put previous Awesome sculpts next to the one from the new box set, the scale is different.  This is what I find most perplexing about the new miniatures: they seem to have revised the size and girth of the BattleMechs.  This, in of itself, in many situations, makes the game board appear inconsistent when playing with mixed generation sculpts.  It's not all that different than mixing the traditional Ral Partha/IWM sculpts with MechWarrior: Dark Age Clix models.

If this is the new normal, I'm looking forward to a steady stream of updated and up-scaled BT miniatures.  I absolutely love the new design aesthetic and the heft of the miniatures.  Well done, CGL!  Now, keep it up!

[Hellraiser]

As you say Nck, the price for these at $20 & $60 IIRC? isn't a screaming deal but it seems like its closer to what they need to be at.

Myself, yeah, I feel $49.99 would be the best target price.  And I know I'd have been a lot happier if the 8 minis didn't have 3 duplicates from the last several sets in there.

Swapping the Awesome, Catapult, & Commando for a Wasp/Stinger, Mad/Hammer, & Stalker or even tossing in the Griffin/Wolverine from the Beginners set so you got both in the same box or something like that would have really been spot on for me.


Actually Wolverine/Griffin do make for solid pair in the beginners set so maybe the larger set could have been.....

Locust, Wasp, Phoenix Hawk, Shadow Hawk, Thunderbolt, WarHammer, Marauder, BattleMaster ?


I'm just spit-balling on the "is it worth buying at all v/s buy every single one you can get your hands on", level of interest.

Trying to find that balance between getting them to the new players & not making the price so high that its not worth getting.


I think the idea of "Expansion/Campaign" boxes going for $30 & having 4 mechs in them is another great idea that someone mentioned.

Something like that gets you 4 mechs at a cheaper than metal price while also picking up another map & some added rules/fluff for whatever the setting is.

[General308]

If you put previous Awesome sculpts next to the one from the new box set, the scale is different.  This is what I find most perplexing about the new miniatures: they seem to have revised the size and girth of the BattleMechs.  This, in of itself, in many situations, makes the game board appear inconsistent when playing with mixed generation sculpts.  It's not all that different than mixing the traditional Ral Partha/IWM sculpts with MechWarrior: Dark Age Clix models.

If this is the new normal, I'm looking forward to a steady stream of updated and up-scaled BT miniatures.  I absolutely love the new design aesthetic and the heft of the miniatures.  Well done, CGL!  Now, keep it up!

BattleTech and scale are two words that should only be used loosely together.  Look at the size of all the different Atlas sculpts.  Or catapult sculpts.   Still love that fat plastech one.

[Apocal]

Original sixteen Omnis when?

[Hellraiser]

I just noticed IWM has a 10 pack of Omnis up for sale on line.

I think it was 9 of the Originals & a Kingfisher?? 

Pricey in metal but a solid starter Binary.

[Elmoth]

Regarding buying mechs, I just would like IWM webpage not to suck so much and have visible product instead of microimagea and popup windows. Makes looking for models a nightmare and detracts a lot of my impulse to buy BT products :(

[MoffMalthus]

I love the new sculpts and if they produce new sculpts and sell them in boxed sets I'm sure they would sell very well. The old AS boxed sets are just molds of mechs from the 80's which is why they never sold well. My gaming group is actually excited about Battletech for the for the first time in many years because of the new boxed sets. I'm sure this is a new trend you will start to see if people get exposed to the game.

[Daryk]

nckestrel: Honestly, the reason I never bought an AS box set is that I stopped reading at "Alpha Strike", much less clicked through.  I suspect I was not alone.

BattleTech is the brand... label stuff that way (maybe with a "compatible with Alpha Strike" subtitle), and I bet you sell more.