Author Topic: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation  (Read 160195 times)

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1020 on: 14 July 2019, 20:57:14 »
There's also the +P-hop test that took the life of a test pilot, in a test to determine the recoverability from a situation.  Except the Chey had already anticipated this and put in safety systems to prevent the rotor blades from getting into the cockpit...so the testers decided to disable those safety systems and run their test.

The equivalent is removing the seatbelt, airbag, and brakes from a car, then being utterly shocked that you kill the driver when you slam it into a bridge at high speed.

There were also changing desires in Army procurement and future warfare concepts.  Instead of what was basically a wickedly fast helicopter that could function somewhat like a light plane in its operations, with all kinds of mixed CAS operation possible (seriously look at that gun list) the decision was made to go with something that was a pure tankbuster to deal with Soviet armor.  Thus, we got the AH-64.
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PsihoKekec

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1021 on: 15 July 2019, 00:14:48 »
The fact that AH-1 was already in use also didn't help the program to survive.
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ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1022 on: 15 July 2019, 07:53:06 »
Amusingly, the single-engine complaint leveled against Cheyenne was never made against Cobra, and it didn't get its second turbine until 1972 - well after the cancellation.

I love combination design helicopters, I love the pusherprop system and what it could do to control the aircraft, and the sheer amount of firepower and speed that Cheyenne had (as well as the Gunstar's own actual gunner's station, watch it spin around someday) really made it an effective program.  It was stealthy to the guys on the ground too - not radar, but sound envelope; during observation tests the AH-56 was able to zoom up on the post at extreme low altitude at high speed.  She wasn't noticed until it was virtually overhead and well after it'd have fired on its target.

It was probably the perfect CAS bird, able to respond fast to a situation, carry a LOT of firepower, and get in those early shots.  Once the strategic plan and needs changed, pull-type CAS became less of a thing and tank-hunting from cover was the new way to go about it.  So Cheyenne was pushed off the board, and something new was done.

Still, it's a shame gyrodynes never took off, even in the civilian market.  Much higher speeds, more fuel, more capacity...well maybe now they'll get their chance.

Or maybe we'll fly this.
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Empyrus

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1023 on: 15 July 2019, 14:50:27 »
Still, it's a shame gyrodynes never took off, even in the civilian market.  Much higher speeds, more fuel, more capacity...well maybe now they'll get their chance.


What's the drawback? I mean, there must be one since they're not used. Technically more complex?

snewsom2997

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1024 on: 15 July 2019, 15:46:18 »
Complexity is all I can imagine, unless they have some inherently unstable flight characteristics. It isn't like you have extra transmissions, or anything, you are just changing the angle of the tail rotor or putting it in the front instead. Cannot be any more complicated than the V-22.

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1025 on: 15 July 2019, 17:36:09 »
I suppose there'd be big legal questions about them - with the wing structures involved that actually do provide lift at speed, are they counted as fixed-wing aircraft or rotary-wing aircraft?  Or a whole new third class that needs its own certifications, training, regulations, and so on? 
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beachhead1985

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1026 on: 15 July 2019, 19:18:44 »
Looking at Wikipedia, technical issues, outdated systems, large size, and lack of survivability, as it had only a single engine.
And a demonstration where a TOW missile failed (despite being only one of over a hundred firings).

Rule 4 stuff too.
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hoosierhick

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1027 on: 15 July 2019, 19:53:35 »
What's the drawback? I mean, there must be one since they're not used. Technically more complex?

Well...being really extremely bloody loud fuel hogs didn't help any.

Feenix74

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1028 on: 15 July 2019, 20:37:23 »
The future Armed Reconnaissance Helicopter?

Hopefully the link and the video in the news story works for non-Australian based readers

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-15/french-inventor-wows-bastille-day-crowds-with-flyboard/11308980
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1029 on: 15 July 2019, 23:28:38 »
Ten minutes of flight time?  Isn't that about the same as most every other jetpack or hover device?
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HobbesHurlbut

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1030 on: 16 July 2019, 11:21:20 »
Ten minutes of flight time?  Isn't that about the same as most every other jetpack or hover device?
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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1031 on: 16 July 2019, 15:12:22 »
whats that gonna take?
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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1032 on: 16 July 2019, 15:14:08 »
I'm pretty sure he uses petrochemical fuel... it's hard to beat that energy density.

truetanker

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1033 on: 17 July 2019, 17:45:37 »


For some reason I think of the Hawk from Space:1999!
                                                                                                                                 Thought it was an ended link...                                                                                                                                     OOPS!                                                                                                                                                        http://catacombs.space1999.net/main/models/hawk/imhawk3.jpg                   

TT
« Last Edit: 17 July 2019, 22:39:41 by truetanker »
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1034 on: 17 July 2019, 18:11:07 »
You're not supposed to link to active eBay auctions.
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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1035 on: 17 July 2019, 19:59:17 »
And a link behind spoiler tags is still a posted link. C:-)
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Fat Guy

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1036 on: 18 July 2019, 09:01:38 »
Yesterday was the 30th anniversary of the B-2 Spirit’s inaugural test flight on July 17, 1989 from Air Force Plant 42 at Palmdale, California.




Where does the time go?  :wheelchair:
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CrossfirePilot

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1037 on: 18 July 2019, 17:40:58 »
Yeah,

thanks for making me feel old...

worktroll

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1038 on: 18 July 2019, 19:12:10 »
You want old? I remember seeing this on television.

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Daryk

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1039 on: 18 July 2019, 19:13:23 »
I bought my wife the Lego Lunar Lander for her birthday because she remembers seeing the landing on TV... I wasn't born quite yet...

worktroll

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1040 on: 18 July 2019, 19:15:55 »
Me and the boys from the mill used to get together & pool our lego to make Saturn Vs - about 5'-6' tall, LEM was 4x4 bumps, legs swung out (not folded down). No special-purpose pieces available! At least we weren't trying to make the N1 ...
* No, FASA wasn't big on errata - ColBosch
* The Housebook series is from the 80's and is the foundation of Btech, the 80's heart wrapped in heavy metal that beats to this day - Sigma
* To sum it up: FASAnomics: By Cthulhu, for Cthulhu - Moonsword
* Because Battletech is a conspiracy by Habsburg & Bourbon pretenders - MadCapellan
* The Hellbringer is cool, either way. It's not cool because it's bad, it's cool because it's bad with balls - Nightsky
* It was a glorious time for people who felt that we didn't have enough Marauder variants - HABeas2, re "Empires Aflame"

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1041 on: 18 July 2019, 21:28:37 »
Me and the boys from the mill used to get together & pool our lego to make Saturn Vs - about 5'-6' tall, LEM was 4x4 bumps, legs swung out (not folded down). No special-purpose pieces available! At least we weren't trying to make the N1 ...
Not hard, just build it hollow and fill it full of July 4 fireworks.
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chanman

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1042 on: 19 July 2019, 20:43:12 »
« Last Edit: 20 July 2019, 00:20:39 by chanman »

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1043 on: 19 July 2019, 21:48:49 »
Did a post get removed?
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Kidd

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1044 on: 19 July 2019, 21:55:33 »

I think there's a problem linking externally from that file so here's an alternate host


MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1045 on: 19 July 2019, 22:28:25 »
Is it a jet-powered P-38?
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Colt Ward

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1046 on: 20 July 2019, 00:19:06 »
hmm, a CAS/COIN bird for dumb weapons?  I think it needs some buuurrrrrrrttt, but who knows.
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chanman

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1047 on: 20 July 2019, 00:21:37 »
Myasishchev M-55

It's a high-altitude research aircraft. Think of NASA's converted B-57s


Fat Guy

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1048 on: 20 July 2019, 14:45:14 »
More like a failed effort to develop their own U-2 analog.
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chanman

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Re: Aviation Pictures: The Fourth Generation
« Reply #1049 on: 20 July 2019, 20:06:33 »
More like a failed effort to develop their own U-2 analog.

It was decades late to be a U-2 analog. They already had Foxbats by then anyhow