Author Topic: Creating Serednya Slaviya's military, part the second  (Read 24014 times)

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Creating Serednya Slaviya's military, part the second
« Reply #270 on: 20 November 2023, 22:41:04 »
I've seen a few vehicles with the Wolverines tag; someone is definitely a fan.  And they're productive, it seems - one of the tagged vehicles was an unspecified tank.

So the Russians have an uparmored Tigr they call the Volk, and one variant adds another axle to it as well as what looks like a 105mm-range artillery piece.



It's not in service, and neither is the Volk armor package.  But I'm reminded of the HMMWV-equipped 105mm howitzer and its rapidity of deployment and firing, and wonder if something like this Artillery Volk might be the future after all.

On universal conscription - I suppose I could set it up to where everyone goes into basic training and then a specialty school, but is turned out to the civilian world after their training programs are finished.  Basic training...I suppose twelve weeks is sufficient to turn out a soldier; it's between the ten weeks of Army training and thirteen of the Marines.  On graduation, the recruit would either go professional or become a reservist.  Volunteering for service puts you into an AIT program for your military specialty, while becoming a reservist sends you to infantry school for another twelve weeks. 

That gives me an active-duty army structure as mentioned above, while having a very large pool of trained reservist infantry to supplement it.  I know it's a weird way to do things, but I lack the heavy equipment to equip my reserve forces.  This way I'm at least getting infantry out of them.  Small arms and infantry equipment such as radios are probably things Serednya Slaviya is able to manufacture, so I'm able to equip them in time of war even if they're not going to be terribly effective.

Thoughts on that mid-training volunteer-specialist-or-reserve-infantry idea?  Is it viable for a military, or should I be training my reservists in specialty roles as well and then turning them loose as reservists?  Or should I be considering other options?
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Daryk

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Re: Creating Serednya Slaviya's military, part the second
« Reply #271 on: 21 November 2023, 04:27:09 »
It strikes me you'd almost want a separate school for the ones that volunteer for infantry...

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Creating Serednya Slaviya's military, part the second
« Reply #272 on: 21 November 2023, 04:35:08 »
Something like having two infantry schools, one for reserves and one for active-duty folks?  Or should I push all my recruits through regular specialist role training instead?
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Daryk

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Re: Creating Serednya Slaviya's military, part the second
« Reply #273 on: 21 November 2023, 04:35:53 »
Two infantry schools, exactly!

PsihoKekec

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Re: Creating Serednya Slaviya's military, part the second
« Reply #274 on: 21 November 2023, 07:12:28 »

So the Russians have an uparmored Tigr they call the Volk, and one variant adds another axle to it as well as what looks like a 105mm-range artillery piece.



Russians don't use 105 mm calliber, so it's more likely 120 mm 2B16 gun/mortar. It could be heavily modified D-30, but I doubt it.
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chanman

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Re: Creating Serednya Slaviya's military, part the second
« Reply #275 on: 21 November 2023, 11:34:13 »
I've seen a few vehicles with the Wolverines tag; someone is definitely a fan.  And they're productive, it seems - one of the tagged vehicles was an unspecified tank.

So the Russians have an uparmored Tigr they call the Volk, and one variant adds another axle to it as well as what looks like a 105mm-range artillery piece.



It's not in service, and neither is the Volk armor package.  But I'm reminded of the HMMWV-equipped 105mm howitzer and its rapidity of deployment and firing, and wonder if something like this Artillery Volk might be the future after all.

On universal conscription - I suppose I could set it up to where everyone goes into basic training and then a specialty school, but is turned out to the civilian world after their training programs are finished.  Basic training...I suppose twelve weeks is sufficient to turn out a soldier; it's between the ten weeks of Army training and thirteen of the Marines.  On graduation, the recruit would either go professional or become a reservist.  Volunteering for service puts you into an AIT program for your military specialty, while becoming a reservist sends you to infantry school for another twelve weeks. 

That gives me an active-duty army structure as mentioned above, while having a very large pool of trained reservist infantry to supplement it.  I know it's a weird way to do things, but I lack the heavy equipment to equip my reserve forces.  This way I'm at least getting infantry out of them.  Small arms and infantry equipment such as radios are probably things Serednya Slaviya is able to manufacture, so I'm able to equip them in time of war even if they're not going to be terribly effective.

Thoughts on that mid-training volunteer-specialist-or-reserve-infantry idea?  Is it viable for a military, or should I be training my reservists in specialty roles as well and then turning them loose as reservists?  Or should I be considering other options?

I think it might be a bit early for SereSlav compared to say, towed guns or picking up another battery or two of Gvozdikas. My main concern with the light truck guns is the long-term durability of the platform. You could end up with more of your vehicles in depot than on strength if they don't prove up to the strains of the job and the the resources and tech available will depend on when in the timeline this occurs.

Here's some footage of the PCL-171. No mention of the gun design, but it's a 122mm howitzer like the 2S1 or D-30. It's a 6x6 base and Wikipedia lists the entire vehicle as weighing 11 tonnes. You can see how much the recoil rocks the truck around even with spades, outriggers, and a humongous brake.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPG6Hqb35Ec

Daryk

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Re: Creating Serednya Slaviya's military, part the second
« Reply #276 on: 21 November 2023, 17:38:28 »
I think I saw daylight under the wheels on more than one shot... those chassis are taking a BEATING!

Daryk

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Re: Creating Serednya Slaviya's military, part the second
« Reply #277 on: 21 November 2023, 18:10:28 »
If you can handle the horrendous pronunciation, this video is interesting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5Dro0gpCY8

chanman

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Re: Creating Serednya Slaviya's military, part the second
« Reply #278 on: 21 November 2023, 18:19:14 »
I think I saw daylight under the wheels on more than one shot... those chassis are taking a BEATING!

The oblique direct fire shots were lifting the inboard outriggers off the ground, and the gasses from the muzzle brake threw up dirt even on the indirect fire shots!

But it's back to what you're after. If you have the resources to assume that the base chassis of your howitzer trucks are going to be a consumable item and the gun system will be mounted on a new chassis every say, 10 years of 1000 shots, then you can make it work.

And if you're an insurgent group, you can fire a mortar off the bed of a pickup truck because you don't expect the truck or the mortar to last particularly long.

But from a minimum cost, maintaining proficiency standpoint, it's hard to argue against a good ol' towed gun in the interim.

Daryk

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Re: Creating Serednya Slaviya's military, part the second
« Reply #279 on: 21 November 2023, 18:25:41 »
Towed systems are the logistics answer in every case, yep! ;D

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Creating Serednya Slaviya's military, part the second
« Reply #280 on: 21 November 2023, 19:12:07 »
So that poses a question for the artillery, why towed tube arty over SPGs?  I had thought the 152mm DANA would make a good semimodern artillery piece, probably acquired from Slovakia sometime in the 1990s.  Why do you guys like towed guns better?

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Daryk

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Re: Creating Serednya Slaviya's military, part the second
« Reply #281 on: 21 November 2023, 19:13:48 »
Did you see the beating those truck chassis were taking from firing the artillery?  That's why the logistics guys are for towed arty: less damage to the prime movers (which are SUPPOSED to be cheap!).

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Creating Serednya Slaviya's military, part the second
« Reply #282 on: 21 November 2023, 20:58:42 »
I can see that, yeah.  Literally in this case, and the only way to mitigate potential damage from firing shock is to overbuild your SPG, which results in a much heavier system overall.

Considering I want to keep SereSlav's fighting force strategically mobile, I suppose I'd have to go with towed guns just to keep the transportability.  HIMARS fits in a C-130, so that'll be my yardstick to measure mobility with.  D-30 122mm guns are prolific as hell in Eastern Europe, and have spread beyond that region with arms sales elsewhere, so I'm down with that.

That gives me a total of two battalions of 36 122mm howitzers each, and a third battalion at the division level of 36 HIMARS units.  For two cavalry battalions and four infantry battalions, that's some decent firepower, though I certainly wouldn't mind adding more - but I'm focusing my army on engineers, not artillerists.  What I have should be good enough.
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chanman

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Re: Creating Serednya Slaviya's military, part the second
« Reply #283 on: 21 November 2023, 21:05:32 »
So that poses a question for the artillery, why towed tube arty over SPGs?  I had thought the 152mm DANA would make a good semimodern artillery piece, probably acquired from Slovakia sometime in the 1990s.  Why do you guys like towed guns better?



If the DANA be rockin', shellfire be knockin'! https://youtu.be/FKRkRczgmMg?t=125
Again, the effect is most pronounced in direct fire, but you can also see they do most of the filmed shots from concrete slab...

These Caesars also flex and they've got outriggers/spades out as well. You can see they're trying to redirect forces to the ground like with a mortar baseplate, but the truck still dances
https://youtu.be/Jp6lFy3xFgY?t=78
« Last Edit: 21 November 2023, 21:07:18 by chanman »

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Creating Serednya Slaviya's military, part the second
« Reply #284 on: 21 November 2023, 21:19:41 »
Damn, that sucker is moving.  Granted that's shooting 90 degrees off to the side, so you're maximizing the amount of roll it's getting, but still...that is a huge amount of shock to the vehicle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6x3so6_rQA

Meanwhile the 122mm D-30 gun doesn't seem to be quite as fierce in recoil, or else it's better mitigated with its tripod-like legs.  There's also a neat shot of it at the end of the video in direct-fire mode taking out a target, and you can see the shell going downrange from the air disturbance it's causing.
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Failure16

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Re: Creating Serednya Slaviya's military, part the second
« Reply #285 on: 21 November 2023, 23:15:54 »
It is being found out in Ukraine that towed artillery...has problems. It is very vulnerable to counterbattery fire (both because of speed to reposition and the lack of protection inherent to such a system) and discovery/attack by the new means of offensive action (namely, ubiquitous drone usage).

This is something that has been mulled over in recent years, but this article here provides some of the salient talking points.
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chanman

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Re: Creating Serednya Slaviya's military, part the second
« Reply #286 on: 22 November 2023, 00:00:30 »
It is being found out in Ukraine that towed artillery...has problems. It is very vulnerable to counterbattery fire (both because of speed to reposition and the lack of protection inherent to such a system) and discovery/attack by the new means of offensive action (namely, ubiquitous drone usage).

This is something that has been mulled over in recent years, but this article here provides some of the salient talking points.

Well, sure. It is, now  :grin:

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ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Creating Serednya Slaviya's military, part the second
« Reply #287 on: 22 November 2023, 00:38:55 »
Good article, and strongly makes points about a slow to mobilize artillery being easy to take out with counterbattery or drone-spotted fire support.  That pushes me back into an SPG of some kind, which...huh, does not eliminate C-130 transportability. 



The 2S1 Gvozdika is just barely able to fit in a C-130, and brings the D-30 howitzer into a tracked SPG that is even amphibious.  It's not that fast, only 30km/h offroad, but it ties together all of my desired elements for an artillery piece quite nicely.  It may not quite have the punch of the DANA's 152mm, but I can live with that.  It's also very likely to be what Serednya Slaviya had in its arsenal before the USSR fell, so it's not as if it's a recent purchase.

I also decided to re-jigger the mechanized platoon setup slightly.  Now it has four squads made up of the following organization:
Tigr 1 (M2HB)
  Vehicle Gunner (Mini-Beryl)
  Vehicle Driver (Mini-Beryl)
  Platoon Leader (Beryl)
  Squad Leader (Beryl)
  Grenadier (Beryl+Pallad)
  Platoon Marksman (M110 SASS)
  LMG Gunner (M249)
  LMG Assistant (Beryl)
  RPG Gunner (RPG-7, Beryl)
  RPG Assistant (Beryl)
  RPG Assistant (Beryl)
Tigr 2 (M2HB)
  Vehicle Gunner (Mini-Beryl)
  Vehicle Driver (Mini-Beryl)
  Platoon Sergeant (Beryl)
  Squad Leader (Beryl)
  Rifleman (Beryl)
  Grenadier (Beryl+Pallad)
  LMG Gunner (M249)
  LMG Assistant (Beryl)
  RPG Gunner (RPG-7, Beryl)
  RPG Assistant (Beryl)
  RPG Assistant (Beryl)
Tigr 3 (M2HB)
  Vehicle Gunner (Mini-Beryl)
  Vehicle Driver (Mini-Beryl)
  Squad Leader (Beryl)
  Drone Operator (Beryl)
  Forward Observer (Beryl)
  Grenadier (Beryl+Pallad)
  LMG Gunner (M249)
  LMG Assistant (Beryl)
  RPG Gunner (RPG-7, Beryl)
  RPG Assistant (Beryl)
  RPG Assistant (Beryl)
Tigr 4 (AGS-30)
  Vehicle Gunner (Mini-Beryl)
  Vehicle Driver (Mini-Beryl)
  Squad Leader (Beryl)
  Medic (Glock 19)
  Rifleman (Beryl)
  Grenadier (Beryl+Pallad)
  LMG Gunner (M249)
  LMG Assistant (Beryl)
  RPG Gunner (RPG-7, Beryl)
  RPG Assistant (Beryl)
  RPG Assistant (Beryl)

The big change was shifting the 4th squad's AT-5 into another RPG-7, and moving the ATGMs to a Weapons Platoon for each Rifle Company.  I also grouped a Forward Observer in with the Drone Operator, it made sense to have the observer hand in hand with the eyes of the platoon.  I also converted one Rifleman in each squad into a Squad Leader, allowing the Platoon Leader and his Sergeant to operate without doublehatting.  It also means I'm not making my medic lead a squad, which was where I was at before - the unit specialists need to do their thing and not worry about the rest of the squad.  Total platoon strength is 44 personnel.

I also gave the Platoon Marksman a M110 SASS which is basically an accurized AR-10, currently in use in Armenia, Brazil, Georgia, Poland, Romania, Singapore, and the US.  Some have made their way to Ukraine as part of their foreign legion, so it's not as if it's hard to come by.

As far as the Weapons Platoon goes, here's what I was thinking in that direction.

Tigr 1 (M2HB)
  Vehicle Gunner (Mini-Beryl)
  Vehicle Driver (Mini-Beryl)
  Platoon Leader (Beryl)
  Squad Leader (Beryl)
  Rifleman (Beryl)
  Mortar Team Leader (Beryl)
  Mortar Gunner (Glock 19, 60mm Mortar)
  Mortar Assistant (Beryl)
  ATGM Team Leader (Beryl)
  ATGM Gunner (AT-5, Beryl)
  ATGM Assistant (Beryl)
Tigr 2 (M2HB)
  Vehicle Gunner (Mini-Beryl)
  Vehicle Driver (Mini-Beryl)
  Platoon Sergeant (Beryl)
  Squad Leader (Beryl)
  Rifleman (Beryl)
  Mortar Team Leader (Beryl)
  Mortar Gunner (Glock 19, 60mm Mortar)
  Mortar Assistant (Beryl)
  ATGM Team Leader (Beryl)
  ATGM Gunner (AT-5, Beryl)
  ATGM Assistant (Beryl)
Tigr 3 (AGS-30)
  Vehicle Gunner (Mini-Beryl)
  Vehicle Driver (Mini-Beryl)
  Squad Leader (Beryl)
  Rifleman (Beryl)
  Rifleman (Beryl)
  GPMG Team Leader (Beryl)
  GPMG Gunner (Glock 19, M240)
  GPMG Assistant (Beryl)
  GPMG Team Leader (Beryl)
  GPMG Gunner (Glock 19, M240)
  GPMG Assistant (Beryl)
Tigr 4 (AGS-30)
  Vehicle Gunner (Mini-Beryl)
  Vehicle Driver (Mini-Beryl)
  Squad Leader (Beryl)
  Rifleman (Beryl)
  Rifleman (Beryl)
  GPMG Team Leader (Beryl)
  GPMG Gunner (Glock 19, M240)
  GPMG Assistant (Beryl)
  GPMG Team Leader (Beryl)
  GPMG Gunner (Glock 19, M240)
  GPMG Assistant (Beryl)

That gives me a weapons platoon in the company of two 60mm mortars, two AT-5 ATGM launchers, and four .30 machine guns.  Each crew-served weapon has a fire team leader who doubles as an ammo carrier, while each squad has a dedicated squad leader and a rifleman or two to double as more ammo carriers.  Total Platoon strength is also 44 personnel.

The headquarters for the company I'm copying from here.

Headquarters Platoon
Tigr 1 (M2HB)
  Company Leader (Beryl)
  Signals NCO (Beryl)
  Radiotelephone Operator (Beryl)
  Radiotelephone Operator (Beryl)
Ural 4320 1
  Company Executive Officer (Beryl)
  Company Sergeant (Beryl)
  Supply Sergeant (Beryl)
  Supply NCO (Beryl)
  Senior Medic (Glock 19)
Tigr 2 (M2HB)
  Fire Support Officer (Beryl)
  Fire Support Sergeant (Beryl)
  Fire Support NCO (Beryl)
  Radiotelephone Operator (Beryl)

That plus three rifle platoons and a weapons platoon make for a total company strength of 189 personnel, should I cut that back or is that an acceptable size?  I can always lose an ammo handler or two from the regular platoons, and drop two of the four MG carriers plus their vehicle, if it's too large. 
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Daryk

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Re: Creating Serednya Slaviya's military, part the second
« Reply #288 on: 22 November 2023, 04:29:53 »
189 is big, but reasonable, I think... :)

idea weenie

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Re: Creating Serednya Slaviya's military, part the second
« Reply #289 on: 22 November 2023, 07:10:54 »
One option I saw somewhere, was putting the base plate of the mortar on the ground when the mortar fired, but using hydraulics to lift the mortar back onto the vehicle.

So the ground and baseplate take the beating from the shots, but you have the vehicle able to scoot much faster.

The whole setup might be similar to a dump truck for levering the support frame of the mortar up and lowering the mortar to the ground, and merely aiming the mortar while it fires.

Eventually you'll have to replace the baseplate and mortar, but good design means the tube can be disconnected from the vehicle and a new one put in place.  Disadvantage is you'll want to keep multiple barrels per vehicle so they can be changed out rapidly.

Daryk

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Re: Creating Serednya Slaviya's military, part the second
« Reply #290 on: 22 November 2023, 16:50:39 »
I think that's how the HMMWV mounted howitzer does it...

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Creating Serednya Slaviya's military, part the second
« Reply #291 on: 22 November 2023, 22:10:05 »
Matsimus had a video on the Hawkeye, and mentions that part of the reason it works on a HMMWV without shaking it to bits is a special slow-recoil system.  It's also got hydraulic jacks fore and aft that lift the whole vehicle for stability.  And as you can see in the video, the shock to the firing vehicle is pretty minimal, especially compared to the DANA and its heavier 155mm gun.

I'm honestly considering having SereSlav look into the Hawkeye as a replacement for its Gvozdikas.  It doesn't quite have the same range as the 122mm gun, though RAP rounds can equal or slightly exceed that.  The advantages would be not just the rapidity of deployment and fire rate, but also accuracy and lethality as well as commonality with NATO munitions.  And like the rest of the arsenal, it's air-transportable by C-130 as well.

Thoughts on down/sidegrading from a Russian 122mm to NATO standard 105mm howitzers?
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chanman

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Re: Creating Serednya Slaviya's military, part the second
« Reply #292 on: 23 November 2023, 02:16:16 »
Matsimus had a video on the Hawkeye, and mentions that part of the reason it works on a HMMWV without shaking it to bits is a special slow-recoil system.  It's also got hydraulic jacks fore and aft that lift the whole vehicle for stability.  And as you can see in the video, the shock to the firing vehicle is pretty minimal, especially compared to the DANA and its heavier 155mm gun.

I'm honestly considering having SereSlav look into the Hawkeye as a replacement for its Gvozdikas.  It doesn't quite have the same range as the 122mm gun, though RAP rounds can equal or slightly exceed that.  The advantages would be not just the rapidity of deployment and fire rate, but also accuracy and lethality as well as commonality with NATO munitions.  And like the rest of the arsenal, it's air-transportable by C-130 as well.

Thoughts on down/sidegrading from a Russian 122mm to NATO standard 105mm howitzers?

It's a big step down in throw weight. Also, I suspect the HMMWV mobility in the mud is going to lag the 2S1s badly. If I were to make any change, it might be to swap the Gvordikas for 120mm gun/mortar Nonas and either do without howitzers or tack on a few batteries of M777 or other equivalent 155mm towed guns.

I know F16 will bring up the mobility and survivability aspect, but that's post-2022 experience of drone-saturated battlefields. Seeing it 10 years ago would be prescient. Seeing it 20-30 years ago risks being too early by a long shot as it's verging on an entire generation of equipment in advance.

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Creating Serednya Slaviya's military, part the second
« Reply #293 on: 23 November 2023, 04:35:07 »
I'll keep the 2S1 as the artillery arm for each brigade then, for a total of 36 guns.  It fits like a cat in a C-130, and the Nona - as much as I'd like to go with that - just doesn't have the range of the 122mm artillery.  Though...one point for the Nona is that I can put two of them in a C-130 instead of just one 2S1 Gvozdika, so my expeditionary portability is improved significantly.  Maybe I should go with the Nonas after all...they're amphibious, which is another plus in their regard.  Though so is the 2S1...and the Gvozdika does have nearly double the range of the 2S9 Nona.  Points to consider.

Matisimus did a video on the 2S1 and its history, and it shows some interesting video clips.  Namely, it's got its own bulldozer blade on the bow, and is able to dig its own firing positions.  He also brings up the points in favor of an SPG in general, namely their CBRN protection schemes and the ability to fire and move out quickly.

But this article and its video are an interesting read & watch, seeing 2S9s go gallivanting around a training field and doing fire exercises.  The article's mention of alternate ammunition for the Nona, including a 120mm HEAT round for the anti-tank role and a laser-guided round, gives me warm fuzzies in retrospect.

I'll go with Nonas for the fire support role, taking the short range into consideration.  The army is looking for a lightweight replacement for the thing.  Air portability, at least in a C-17, is a requirement, though I'd like to keep the C-130 mobility if at all possible.  That way shifting from a 120mm mortar to a 105mm howitzer is much less of a downgrade.  Abbots are still in service in India, maybe they'd be willing to sell off some of their fleet. 

Boy, it feels like the military forces that were present in the Soviet era included a VDV brigade; I'm so heavily into air mobility that it feels like airborne thinking may have been present heavily in Serednya Slaviya in the Good Old Days.  The Air Force doesn't have the transports, though, not without heavy reworking of the basic assumptions of the military...I'll keep the organization as it is but say that there's a general or two that came up through the Airborne forces and they're putting that mindset to bear despite there not being an airborne force.

I'm also thinking of reorganizing the mechanized infantry battalion to something more western, instead of large Soviet squads going with the paired fire team model of the West. 

Headquarters Squad
  Platoon Leader (Beryl)
  Platoon Sergeant (Beryl)
  Radiotelephone Operator (Beryl)
  Combat Medic (Glock 19)
  Forward Observer (Beryl)
  Fire Support RTO (Beryl)
  Drone Operator (Beryl)
  Platoon Marksman (M110 SASS)
Infantry Squad (x3)
  Squad Leader (Beryl)
  Alpha Team
    Team Leader (Beryl+Pallad)
    Automatic Rifleman (M249)
    RPG Gunner (Beryl, RPG-7)
    Rifleman (Beryl)
  Bravo Team
    Team Leader (Beryl+Pallad)
    Automatic Rifleman (M249)
    RPG Gunner (Beryl, RPG-7)
    Rifleman (Beryl)

I'm splitting up the first infantry squad and the HQ squad between the first two vehicles, while keeping second and third squads intact in vehicles three and four.  There's an extra seat in the second vehicle to add a mission specialist of some kind for the platoon.

Tigr 1 (M2HB)
  Vehicle Driver (Mini-Beryl)
  Vehicle Gunner (Mini-Beryl)
  Platoon Leader
  Radiotelephone Operator
  Combat Medic
  Platoon Marksman
  1st Squad Leader
  1st Alpha Team
Tigr 2 (M2HB)
  Vehicle Driver (Mini-Beryl)
  Vehicle Gunner (Mini-Beryl)
  Platoon Sergeant
  Forward Observer
  Fire Support RTO
  Drone Operator
  1st Bravo Team
Tigr 3 (M2HB)
  Vehicle Driver (Mini-Beryl)
  Vehicle Gunner (Mini-Beryl)
  2nd Squad Leader
  2nd Alpha Team
  2nd Bravo Team
Tigr 4 (Mk 19 GMG)
  Vehicle Driver (Mini-Beryl)
  Vehicle Gunner (Mini-Beryl)
  3rd Squad Leader
  3rd Alpha Team
  3rd Bravo Team

The platoon's total weapons strength is six RPG-7s, six M249s, six Beryl+Pallad combinations, one M110 SASS, three M2HB .50 MGs, one Mk 19 40mm GMG, 21 Beryls, one Glock 19, and eight Mini-Beryls.  I'm using Tigrs as an intermediate between a more typical larger APC such as a BTR-4 and an armored HMMWV; the Tigr is a light 4x4 like the latter but has seating like the former with two crew and nine passengers onboard each vehicle.  It's in between the two vehicles, and an uparmored version is making the rounds at defense expos now.

The company weapons platoon I linked above would shrink to a weapons section for the company.  That would leave a headquarters of 16 personnel and three platoons of 43, and a weapons section of 21 for a total of 166 personnel per company.  I'm putting them in UAZ-469s instead of Tigrs because the American model has them in HMMWVs, and because I can't use Tigrs for everything as much as I'd like to.  They're APCs in Serednya Slaviyan service, not general use vehicles (yet).  The weapons section is equipped with two .30 M240 MGs, two M224 60mm mortars, one M110 SASS, twelve Beryls, four Glock 19s, and four Mini-Beryls.

Weapons Section
UAZ-469 1
  Vehicle Driver (Mini-Beryl)
  Section Leader (Beryl)
  Radiotelephone Operator (Beryl)
    GPMG Team Leader (Beryl)
    GPMG Gunner (Glock 19, M240)
    GPMG Ammo Bearer (Beryl)
UAZ-469 2
  Vehicle Driver (Mini-Beryl)
  Squad Leader (Beryl)
    GPMG Team Leader (Beryl)
    GPMG Gunner (Glock 19, M240)
    GPMG Ammo Bearer (Beryl)
UAZ-469 3
  Vehicle Driver (Mini-Beryl)
  Squad Leader (Beryl)
    Mortar Team Leader (Beryl)
    Mortar Gunner (Glock 19, M224)
    Mortar Ammo Bearer (Beryl)
UAZ-469 4
  Vehicle Driver (Mini-Beryl)
  Company Marksman (M110 SASS)
    Mortar Team Leader (Beryl)
    Mortar Gunner (Glock 19, M224)
    Mortar Ammo Bearer (Beryl)

Rejiggering the infantry company HQ with dedicated vehicle drivers gives me the following strength.  Fifteen Beryls, one Glock 19, and three Mini-Beryls make up the weapons of the HQ platoon.

Headquarters Platoon
UAZ 469 1
  Vehicle Driver (Mini-Beryl)
  Company Leader (Beryl)
  Signals NCO (Beryl)
  Radiotelephone Operator (Beryl)
  Radiotelephone Operator (Beryl)
Ural 4320 1
  Vehicle Driver (Mini-Beryl)
  Company Executive Officer (Beryl)
  Company Sergeant (Beryl)
  Supply Sergeant (Beryl)
  Supply NCO (Beryl)
  Senior Medic (Glock 19)
UAZ 469 2
  Vehicle Driver (Mini-Beryl)
  Fire Support Officer (Beryl)
  Fire Support Sergeant (Beryl)
  Fire Support NCO (Beryl)
  Radiotelephone Operator (Beryl)

Total weapons strength for the company is eighteen RPG-7s, eighteen M249s, eighteen Beryl+Pallad combinations, two M240 .30 MGs, two 60mm M224 mortars, four M110 SASS, nine M2HB .50 MGs, three Mk 19 40mm GMGs, ninety Beryls, eight Glock 19s, and thirty-one Mini-Beryls.

At battalion level, the weapons company is equipped with four equal platoons of mixed weapons, allowing each platoon to bring all of the various weapons capability and be attached to different companies or platoons as needed. 

Assault Platoon (x4)
UAZ-469 1
  Vehicle Driver (Mini-Beryl)
  Platoon Leader (Beryl)
  Section Leader (Beryl)
    Squad Leader (Beryl)
    HMG Gunner (Glock 19, M2HB)
    HMG Ammo Bearer (Beryl)
    HMG Ammo Bearer (Beryl)
UAZ-469 2
  Vehicle Driver (Mini-Beryl)
  Platoon Sergeant (Beryl)
    Squad Leader (Beryl)
    GMG Gunner (Glock 19, Mk 19 GMG)
    GMG Ammo Bearer (Beryl)
    GMG Ammo Bearer (Beryl)
UAZ-469 3
  Vehicle Driver (Mini-Beryl)
  Forward Observer (Beryl)
  Fire Support RTO (Beryl)
  Section Leader (Beryl)
    Squad Leader (Beryl)
    ATGM Gunner (Glock 19, AT-5)
    ATGM Ammo Bearer (Beryl)
    ATGM Ammo Bearer (Beryl)
UAZ-469 4
  Vehicle Driver (Mini-Beryl)
  Combat Medic (Glock 19)
    Squad Leader (Beryl)
    ATGM Gunner (Glock 19, AT-5)
    ATGM Ammo Bearer (Beryl)
    ATGM Ammo Bearer (Beryl)

The total assault company comes to four .50 M2HBs, four Mk 19 40mm GMGs, eight AT-5 ATGM launchers, eighty-four Beryls, sixteen Mini-Beryls, and sixteen Glock 19s. 

Assuming the same 16-man company headquarters size as the infantry company, each assault platoon is 27 personnel in strength and the total weapons company comes to 124.  Three infantry companies plus the weapons company come to 622 troops, plus an unspecified amount for a battalion headquarters.  Based on the below, I'd round off the BN HQ to about 80 personnel and run a battalion strength of approximately 700 in total.

The Battalion HQ, to quote from FM-3-96:
Quote
The headquarters company has a battalion command section, a battalion staff section, a company headquarters, battalion medical,scout,and mortar platoons, a signal section,and a sniper squad. The headquarters company mortar platoon is equipped with 120-mm mortars (trailer towed) and 81-mm mortars (ground mounted).

Why the mortars are emplaced in the battalion headquarters instead of made into a separate platoon in the weapons company is something I don't understand.  I'm guessing that it makes the heavier mortars more of a commander's personal weapon, rather than a support weapon called upon by the rest of the battalion.  There's only enough mortar crews to man either the 81mm or 120mm mortars, so it depends on the commander to decide what to use.  I'd roll with 81mm mortars myself, if only because the M252 weighs less than 1/3 of the M120 mortar - the M252 breaks down into several sub-30-pound pieces; portability is a plus with the army.

I guess the fire team model above has its benefits, and there's a good reason it's being used in modern militaries.  It makes sense that SereSlav would copy and reorganize from the old soviet model to a more modern design, so I'm thinking the above is the way to go with the infantry.

Thoughts, suggestions, things I should take into account?

Boy, this is getting down deep into the weeds with this.
« Last Edit: 23 November 2023, 04:46:49 by ANS Kamas P81 »
Der Hölle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen,
Tod und Verzweiflung flammet um mich her!
Fühlt nicht durch dich Jadefalke Todesschmerzen,
So bist du meine Tochter nimmermehr!

PsihoKekec

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Re: Creating Serednya Slaviya's military, part the second
« Reply #294 on: 23 November 2023, 05:17:40 »
Quote
and a laser-guided round, gives me warm fuzzies in retrospect.

Isn't Srednya Slaviya opposed to Russia? Kitolov is post 2000 development, so unlike Krasnopol they couldn't be acquired in some Cold War fire sale and doubt Russians would be willing to sell their newest ammunition type to a country that is courting NATO.
Shoot first, laugh later.

Daryk

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Re: Creating Serednya Slaviya's military, part the second
« Reply #295 on: 23 November 2023, 06:19:12 »
Speaking of light artillery:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M3_howitzer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OTO_Melara_Mod_56

The latter was even spotted in Bakhmut recently...

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Creating Serednya Slaviya's military, part the second
« Reply #296 on: 23 November 2023, 07:11:34 »
That's a good point - okay, so no laser-guided rounds.

The Nona's still a useful if short-ranged artillery system, but the idea comes to mind of shifting two battalions of eighteen guns each to four battalions of twelve - shrinking each BN in size, but doubling up on the number.  I'd split them evenly between each brigade, with one battalion of twelve Nonas and one battalion of twelve Gvozdikas in each BDE.  The best of both worlds, if not a lot of them.  That's a net increase in artillery, so I'll have to budget troops for that, but I think I can get away with it and not adjust things too much.

And Daryk, those definitely count as lightweight guns - shame they're so old, they're tempting but I think I'm going to go with my doubled small artillery brigades.

Further thoughts on the whole airborne thing.  Two Il-76 and four C-130 transports are enough to haul around 500 paratroopers, which is a few companies of troops.  I'd need to enlarge the Air Force by about 200 to accomodate the six planes, but that's still reasonable in keeping things small.  Maybe that special operations battalion I have at division level is actually an airborne combined-arms battalion, made up of companies of mixed infantry and light armor.

Each company would have one platoon of four ERC 90 Sagaies, and two platoons of infantry with a mortar section attached to it.
 The French do their parachute units with vehicles, so I'll go along with that and just rely on foreign air support to help transport the rest of the unit.  Maybe I can get a company at a time onboard my transports.  It's going to look somewhat like the Cavalry battalion, which I'll detail later.  It's 6am and I need to go to bed, so I'll be back in a bit with more organizational lists that you all love so much.
Der Hölle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen,
Tod und Verzweiflung flammet um mich her!
Fühlt nicht durch dich Jadefalke Todesschmerzen,
So bist du meine Tochter nimmermehr!

Daryk

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Re: Creating Serednya Slaviya's military, part the second
« Reply #297 on: 23 November 2023, 07:31:28 »
Hmmm... AN-2s can carry 12... about a squad and a half... hmmm... ;)

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Creating Serednya Slaviya's military, part the second
« Reply #298 on: 23 November 2023, 09:03:32 »
No, I'm not running my airborne units in An-2s.  They're just too slow.
Der Hölle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen,
Tod und Verzweiflung flammet um mich her!
Fühlt nicht durch dich Jadefalke Todesschmerzen,
So bist du meine Tochter nimmermehr!

Daryk

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Re: Creating Serednya Slaviya's military, part the second
« Reply #299 on: 23 November 2023, 09:21:44 »
I'm thinking more scout units...

 

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