Clan Culture, Resource Scarcity, and Gender Identity

[Fire Scorpion IIC]

One thing everyone assumes is that gender dysphoria would be something new to the Clans for some odd reason

It wouldn't

It was already old news for IRL doctors back when Battletech was originally written

Millennia into the future it would be just one more on the list of medical conditions which have been treated routinely and effortlessly for centuries

And any stigma associated with it would be a thing of ancient past

We don't have stigma against fractured bones, millennia from now nobody would have stigma against gender dysphoria

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

A lot of people in this thread are treating "accepting of trans identity" and "gender-affirming medical care" as if they're synonymous.  They really aren't: for thousands of years, various cultures in the real world accepted trans identities but obviously did not do much beyond letting someone live and dress as a member of their preferred gender because that was all that could be done for them.  There's absolutely no reason that the same thing couldn't happen for non-Warrior trans people in the Clans.  It's not like it costs anything extra for a laborer to buy a dress instead of pants to wear when they're off duty and relaxing.  Especially when there's the occasional Elemental phenotype in the labor pool.

[Jellico]

The system produces recreational drugs like alcohol. So there is enough slack to produce frivolous items. In any case alcohol is dual use with industrial applications. HRT drugs have other medical applications. How much is someone willing to pay?

[Maingunnery]

2. is the Dysmorphia impacting the warrior's performance and will it actually be addressed by the change?

To expand upon this. If it did impact the warrior's performance then they would likely not succeed in their ToP and thus be kicked out of the Warrior caste.

[Metallgewitter]

To the regrowing of body parts: as far as I understand it is something the Clan usually only grants to really deserved warriors. For example the Elemental who led the first charge against Taskforce Serpent was given the privilege of a vat grown leg he lost during Operation Bulldog because his codex was outstanding. So IF a warrior thinks he or she needs such a big operation there needs to be worth to it. Heck I could see his or her superior simply say "Not worth it and if this disturbance continues it's of to Solahma duty or even right to the laborer caste". And as others pointed out most Clan warriors are used as to quote Victor Steiner-Davion "homo sapiens parabellum": they have a short career expectancy. Remember if you are 30 and have not achieved much you are already half out of the door. As Redemption Rites has shown even by 3151 this structure is still ingrained into every Clan warrior. After all this is what forces every warrior to do his or her best lest they are demoted. So I would doubt such deep surgeries are even thought of as it could even shorten said warrior's career.

[phoenixalpha]

I would guess that in the Clans as in the Inner Sphere, it really wouldn't matter one bit who or what your gender and/or sexual preferences are. As long as you do your job, it doesn't matter. If it affected your effectiveness then their might be an issue, but I imagine that nigh on a thousand years from now... it wont matter one bit apart from maybe extremely repressive religions/societies scattered around.  It shouldn't matter now, I highly doubt it would matter then. In the Inner Sphere and Periphery there may be some societal pressure to reproduce to keep the numbers on the up and up but with IVF and egg & sperm donations, I doubt it matters much, even less so in the Clans where sex and reproduction have been separated in the warrior caste

[Natasha Kerensky]

I’d say Mode 3/Situationally Permissive.

There should be no mental block against sex reassignment in Clan society, for a couple reasons.

One, trueborn phenotypes have displayed characteristics that cross gender norms for centuries: elemental women that have the large muscle-bound physiques of typically male linebackers or body builders and male pilots that have the slight gracile physiques of typically female long-distance runners or gymnasts.  These gender-crossing physiques are also widely distributed in the freeborn population as trueborns test out of the warrior caste, enter other castes, and have children naturally.

Two, sex identity has been completely divorced from reproduction among trueborns.  Biological males are routinely gene-mothers and biological females are routinely gene-fathers.

With that societal background, sex reassignment would seem pretty pedestrian to the Clan mind.  The question is whether the stratified Clan medical system, where access to more and better types of care is determined by your value to society and productivity, would restrict access to sex reassignment treatment based on social status.  A highly valued warrior or highly productive scientist or merchant probably has access to treatments, maybe including sex reassignment surgery and hormones, that a slacker or physically aged technician or laborer does not have access to.  The canon doesn’t tell us exactly where these lines are drawn, so we’d have to make it up.

It’s also possible that these lines are drawn differently in different Clans depending on how they treat their lower castes.  Wolves might make more treatments available to a wider range of castes than, say, the Falcons and Jags.

The same should be true of other gender-crossing expressions.  If someone wants to cross-dress, for example, the primary obstacle is probably the lack of resources allocated to personal expression at all in Clan society, rather than any mental block against such behavior in a society of female elementals and male gene-mothers.  Outside of warrior caste ceremonies, everyone seems to wear the same unisex fatigues, overalls, work suits, etc. in Clan society (and in BT in general outside the nobility).  It’s unclear whether fashion, makeup, etc. are even things in Clan society, but to the extent they are, the more valued or productive members of higher castes will probably have more access to them than the less valued or less productive members of lower castes.

Hope this helps.

[Kojak]

I’d say Mode 3/Situationally Permissive.

There should be no mental block against sex reassignment in Clan society, for a couple reasons.

One, trueborn phenotypes have displayed characteristics that cross gender norms for centuries: elemental women that have the large muscle-bound physiques of typically male linebackers or body builders and male pilots that have the slight gracile physiques of typically female long-distance runners or gymnasts.  These gender-crossing physiques are also widely distributed in the freeborn population as trueborns test out of the warrior caste, enter other castes, and have children naturally.

Two, sex identity has been completely divorced from reproduction among trueborns.  Biological males are routinely gene-mothers and biological females are routinely gene-fathers.

With that societal background, sex reassignment would seem pretty pedestrian to the Clan mind.  The question is whether the stratified Clan medical system, where access to more and better types of care is determined by your value to society and productivity, would restrict access to sex reassignment treatment based on social status.  A highly valued warrior or highly productive scientist or merchant probably has access to treatments, maybe including sex reassignment surgery and hormones, that a slacker or physically aged technician or laborer does not have access to.  The canon doesn’t tell us exactly where these lines are drawn, so we’d have to make it up.

It’s also possible that these lines are drawn differently in different Clans depending on how they treat their lower castes.  Wolves might make more treatments available to a wider range of castes than, say, the Falcons and Jags.

The same should be true of other gender-crossing expressions.  If someone wants to cross-dress, for example, the primary obstacle is probably the lack of resources allocated to personal expression at all in Clan society, rather than any mental block against such behavior in a society of female elementals and male gene-mothers.  Outside of warrior caste ceremonies, everyone seems to wear the same unisex fatigues, overalls, work suits, etc. in Clan society (and in BT in general outside the nobility).  It’s unclear whether fashion, makeup, etc. are even things in Clan society, but to the extent they are, the more valued or productive members of higher castes will probably have more access to them than the less valued or less productive members of lower castes.

Hope this helps.

Just wanted to throw in here that I think there's also the variable of the warrior caste's obsession with youth. I would not be surprised if, say, Hair Club for Trueborns had purchase among the officer corps (which is to say, the Clan's political elite).

[Maingunnery]

Just wanted to throw in here that I think there's also the variable of the warrior caste's obsession with youth. I would not be surprised if, say, Hair Club for Trueborns had purchase among the officer corps (which is to say, the Clan's political elite).

Their obsession is more with strength, if you look at various portraits it is clear that many of them are not pretty and they do not seem to mind scars all that much.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

That seems to vary heavily depending on the artist.  Trueborn always seem to be noted as either being particularly attractive or particularly ugly in appearance.

[Jellico]

Lots of self expression here.

[cmerwin]

Just wanted to throw in here that I think there's also the variable of the warrior caste's obsession with youth. I would not be surprised if, say, Hair Club for Trueborns had purchase among the officer corps (which is to say, the Clan's political elite).

True, although there is also a pretty good chance that 1000 years from now they have figured out how to cut out the genes that cause pattern baldness. I hope!

[Natasha Kerensky]

Lots of self expression here.

I dunno.  I see a lot of battle dress (shoulder/knee pads), functional monochrome fatigues, and uniforms (Clan patches and Ebon Keshik pair on the left), and that’s about it.  The differences in color, dress, and patches seem based on Clan-affiliation, not personal expression.  Individualism seems limited to hairstyle, eyewear, and functional accessories (and I’m not even sure about some of that).

To be fair, I’d say the same thing about most art depicting Spheroids outside of criminals and nobility, too.  It’s understandable given that the focus of the game and universe is on militaries, not fashion houses and companies.  We get some style hints, like Lothians selling fashionable furs to Lyrans, but it’s far in the background.

To the OP’s question, there’s a Jade Falcon woman in the foreground of that art.  AFAICT, there’s no gender-identifying difference between her clothes and the clothes worn by the Diamond Shark male to her right and the Smoke Jaguar male to her left.  Everyone is just wearing generic male military fatigues/battle dress.  That’s different from, say, office attire in the real world today, where there are clear differences between suits for men and suits for women.  Or clothes for primary age school children.  My son wears monster truck shirts while the girl down the street wears unicorn shirts.  My point is that — while I don’t think there would be any issue with cross-dressing in Clan society given that just being trueborn or having a phenotype often involves crosses gender norms as we view them today — I’m not sure how one would express cross-dressing given the uniform and monotone nature of everyday Clan (and most BT) clothing.  I’m exaggerating a bit, but seems as if one must participate in a Clan trueborn ceremony (or be a Spheroid noble or belong to a criminal gang) to express one’s gender, whether cis- or cross-.  A drag show would be a hopeless cause from what we see of everyday gendered fashion in Clan (and most BT) society!

The namesake of my screen name is the exception that proves the rule.  She played into her femme fatale persona for propoganda purposes with cheesecake photos in revealing female attire.  And her Clan ceremonial dress was obviously feminine.  But Joanna?  Malvina above?  Tiaret?  I don’t recall any feminine attire or accessories in their art or descriptive text.  Again, I’m exaggerating, but it would appear that the only character available to the Clan equivalent of RuPaul’s Drag Race is Natasha Kerensky in ceremonial attire!

FWIW…

[tassa_kay]

it would appear that the only character available to the Clan equivalent of RuPaul’s Drag Race is Natasha Kerensky in ceremonial attire!

The artwork of Natalie Breen in "Bloodright" more than gives Natasha a run for her money in that department. She was giving serious Mad Max serpent queen couture.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Thinking about the possibility of hair removal (which ought to be a lot faster and easier than it is in real life) got me wondering about trueborn and body hair.  Seems like being gene-edited for significantly reduced body hair would be something that was already common among trueborn just because less/no body hair would confer a slight advantage in the hot cockpit of a mech.  Even the trueborn characters who've been shown with facial hair in artwork seem to have rather reduced amounts of it from what I remember.

[Jellico]

Americans miss out by lacking school uniforms. You can personalize them a lot whilst keeping within the rules. Even simple pushing your socks down like a rebel.

Heading deep into the weeds here, what makes a person in Clan culture attractive to their intended target? Go back a thousand years from today all those manly cavalry men need tights (even high heels) for riding like a boss, so having nice legs was very much a plus.
But then other things are much more primal related to basic stuff like ovulation or child birth. Depending upon which buttons you want to push they will always be part of attraction. So artificial versions like masculine and feminine make-up will remain cheap and easy options.
If you have any older mainland Chinese relatives it could be worth asking what they used during the Cultural Revolution when everyone was stuck in Mao suits.

Thinking about the possibility of hair removal (which ought to be a lot faster and easier than it is in real life) got me wondering about trueborn and body hair.  Seems like being gene-edited for significantly reduced body hair would be something that was already common among trueborn just because less/no body hair would confer a slight advantage in the hot cockpit of a mech.  Even the trueborn characters who've been shown with facial hair in artwork seem to have rather reduced amounts of it from what I remember.

Hair is often to reduce friction or to trap smell.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Hair retains heat and makes sweating less efficient.

[phoenixalpha]

Hair retains heat and makes sweating less efficient.

I would also say that hair would possibly interfere with sensors in a neurohelmet and/or elemental armour so therefor hair would be a hinderance (see Lyran mechwarrior hairstyles for example where bits of the hair were shaved right down for better contact

[cmerwin]

The artwork of Natalie Breen in "Bloodright" more than gives Natasha a run for her money in that department. She was giving serious Mad Max serpent queen couture." 

The one on page 9? I never even realized that was Natalie Breen, but you're right. Spot on description. The incredibly practical spiked shoulder epaulet and the gravity defying snake somehow going up her "cape".

[Clan Diamond Shark holovid presenter] "Clanners? What do you ask is the hot new look for 3053? Well, look no further than Steel Viper's own Natalie Breen sporting serpent queen couture!"

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I would also say that hair would possibly interfere with sensors in a neurohelmet and/or elemental armour so therefor hair would be a hinderance (see Lyran mechwarrior hairstyles for example where bits of the hair were shaved right down for better contact

Yeah, though you still get the occasional mechwarrior who's depicted as having big 80s hair.  Anyway, enough of the off-topic musings on my part.

[parable]

Coming across this thread in progress has honestly just blown me away.  Great analyses by all.  All that said: in my mind, the ideal Clanner is nigh-genderless, and while some might go for HRT, I doubt they (in general) care about their specific ports and jacks--sex is just a bonding and recreational exercise after all, incest isn't a thing; to me I have trouble imagining that a Clan Warrior really cares about anything other than attraction.  If someone has the right input/output or physical characteristics, you ask them to recreate (shamelessly stolen from Farscape, rhymes with procreate), if not then you don't.  I have always been a bit irked by the lack of same-sex coupling in the Clans--I know a lot of it is due to the authorship and intended audience but it seems that it would be widespread: no sexual taboos, an aversion to 'natural' pregnancy, et cetera. 

to contribute to the thread as is...

Hair retains heat and makes sweating less efficient.

It (body hair at least) allows sweat to wick and spread and prevents skin-on-skin chafing in areas it might otherwise be a problem.  I'd assume anyone who's removed body hair has experienced the pimples and rashes that occur when sweaty skin rubs against itself with no buffer.  Now, for Neurohelmet purposes, I'd imagine that they'd follow the ExoSquad example: stylized haircuts that emphasize the parts shaved down to ensure a good connection.

[tassa_kay]

The one on page 9? I never even realized that was Natalie Breen, but you're right. Spot on description. The incredibly practical spiked shoulder epaulet and the gravity defying snake somehow going up her "cape".

I think the snake is actually embroidered onto her cape. Either way, she’s fabulous and I think I (platonically, as I’m not hetero) love her. We need more flamboyant Clanners, damn it.

[Jellico]

Technically the neurohelmet contacts stopped being a problem during the Star League. Inner Sphere technical regression brought it back.
That said, the hair style did become fashionable as a symbol of being a mechwarrior. I forget where it is still fashionable.

[AlphaMirage]

The Lyrans had a distinctive hairstyle based on how their neurohelmet 's contacts linked in

[Von Jankmon]

I really doubt the clans are into LGBTQ+ issues.  The faction that is most likely to go that way are the Canopians.  Issues like gender identity is a resource drain, in a society which has an emphasis on centralised resource management you would be harshly expected to 'get over it' most likely.  If you are no longer allowed your own surname, it is likely you wont get to choose your pronouns either. However the universe is a big place, there is room for anything.

That being said,  three points of note.  First, if you have a bloodname, you will not be able to change your gender because the clan owns your procreative rights.
Second, social issues in Battletech are largely airbrushed over, so to avoid cultural divide issues.  Religious wars do not involve real world religions, and ethnic conflicts occur between factions without direct reference to earth origin or ethnicity. The reasons for these are hopefully obvious and do not require explanation. Battletech preceded the current cultural milieu, but the current policy of avoiding political or social allegory to the current age remains and it is likely that divisive social issues will be kept away from the canon.
Third and consequently, this vacuum enables you, the reader, to decide where your own canon stands on modern personal issues.

[cmerwin]

I think the snake is actually embroidered onto her cape. Either way, she’s fabulous and I think I (platonically, as I’m not hetero) love her. We need more flamboyant Clanners, damn it.

Agreed. Where is the Zardoz (Zed) of the Clans? Where?!?

[Liam's Ghost]

Honestly, the clans are bad people, and their population is largely treated as a resource.

At best, they aren't going to care how you identify or what sort of partner you prefer, so long as you make your contribution to the clan. But they aren't going to go to any effort beyond that. Because you are replaceable, and if your "curious quirks" compromise your ability to contribute to the clan. Then you can just be replaced.

(in the lower castes, where childbearing is still primarily done the natural way, this includes your ability to produce offspring when required and with who you are required to do so. Since you can make a trueborn from same sex pairings, this probably doesn't apply to warriors)

Because the individual is in no way important to the clan, unless they are a warrior at the top of their game who can still consistently win glory for their clan. And even then, only so long as they stay on top. If a ristar wants gender affirming care, then they might be able to get it, so long as they continue to win glory for the clan.

Seriously, clan culture normalizes systemic sexual abuse (through the ability of a commander or sibko trainer to demand sex from an inferior). There is nothing healthy about how the clans do things.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I don't recall ever seeing anything state that commanders or sibko trainers could demand sex from a subordinate.

[Liam's Ghost]

I don't recall ever seeing anything state that commanders or sibko trainers could demand sex from a subordinate.

It was literally a minor plotline during the first book in the Aiden Pryde trilogy. Joanna commands Aiden and several of his sibmates to her quarters repeatedly.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I'm not even sure I actually read that novel.  I wouldn't be surprised if that was one of the details from the early Clan lore that got shuffled off into the "we're going to pretend it didn't happen" corner.