Author Topic: Orion - Good mech, best variant?  (Read 17645 times)

Southern Coyote

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Orion - Good mech, best variant?
« on: 07 June 2011, 02:54:26 »
Simply put, what is the best variant of the Orion?

TigerShark

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Re: Orion - Good mech, best variant?
« Reply #1 on: 07 June 2011, 03:06:04 »
Simply put, what is the best variant of the Orion?

I'd have to disagree that it's even a "good 'Mech", honestly. :)

But as for the best variant, the ON2-M is easily the king. It has some nice ranged weaponry (Gauss + LRM-15) and 3 x Medium Pulse for the brawling duties. There really isn't another ON1- which even comes close in its versatility.

Note: The reason I say the ON1- series sucks is its Battle Value in BV 2.0. By itself, it's not too bad and the ON1-K can hold its own quite well. But with the horrific ammunition load out, bad heat curve and lack of secondary sinks in the event of an Engine hit, it simply gets outclassed by the TDR-5S as "THE" Intro Tech line 'Mech.
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Re: Orion - Good mech, best variant?
« Reply #2 on: 07 June 2011, 03:15:16 »
Personally, I have always liked the V and VA Orions. Then again, I tend to be a bit of an infighter, so they
match my style.
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Martius

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Re: Orion - Good mech, best variant?
« Reply #3 on: 07 June 2011, 03:20:51 »
ON2-M.
This is one of the best assault Mech the Mariks have.  :D

The Orion Kerensky is interesting as well but more of a brawler, using gauss and snPPC to open holes that can be exploited by the SRMs.

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Re: Orion - Good mech, best variant?
« Reply #4 on: 07 June 2011, 03:31:42 »
ON2-M.
This is one of the best assault Mech the Mariks have.  :D

The Orion Kerensky is interesting as well but more of a brawler, using gauss and snPPC to open holes that can be exploited by the SRMs.

It's a Heavy. :)
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Re: Orion - Good mech, best variant?
« Reply #5 on: 07 June 2011, 03:32:39 »
By the way, the "Kerensky" Orion is quite a looker too, though it's a unique variant to my knowledge. The -IIC doesn't even feel like an Orion by the time they got done with it...
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Re: Orion - Good mech, best variant?
« Reply #6 on: 07 June 2011, 03:44:20 »
By the way, the "Kerensky" Orion is quite a looker too, though it's a unique variant to my knowledge.


It is, however, in theory, it can be refit onto another Orion if someone found out the loadout..
Remember: the Orion was one of those 'mechs known for ease of modification.
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Re: Orion - Good mech, best variant?
« Reply #7 on: 07 June 2011, 03:48:22 »
Totally the 2M, it's just a sublime package.
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Re: Orion - Good mech, best variant?
« Reply #8 on: 07 June 2011, 03:57:10 »

It is, however, in theory, it can be refit onto another Orion if someone found out the loadout..
Remember: the Orion was one of those 'mechs known for ease of modification.

Well, it's definitely one, bad machine.
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Re: Orion - Good mech, best variant?
« Reply #9 on: 07 June 2011, 04:03:49 »
Well, it's definitely one, bad machine.

*contemplates making an Orion pilot named Shaft....*
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Demos

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Re: Orion - Good mech, best variant?
« Reply #10 on: 07 June 2011, 04:08:02 »
It's a Heavy. :)
That was a joke since the Mariks don't have any outstanding assault mech  ;)

Of the original series I like the 1K most. As I hate the -2M it is the best variant of the Orion.
EDIT: The best variant is the Perseus!
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Re: Orion - Good mech, best variant?
« Reply #11 on: 07 June 2011, 04:32:34 »
I like the V. Its over ammo'ed beyond belief but that just means you can charge in and alpha for a few turns before you realise just how few heat sinks you have. O0

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Re: Orion - Good mech, best variant?
« Reply #12 on: 07 June 2011, 04:35:39 »
While maybe not the best, I love the ON-1VA model.
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Re: Orion - Good mech, best variant?
« Reply #13 on: 07 June 2011, 04:43:50 »
Orion -2M. Finally a variant with enough survivability. At least as long as noone hits the gauss rifle.

Orion -1K was a good choice for fights around 3025. At least the ammunition was evenly divided.

Orion -1VA is a little bit extreme but don't meet it inside a city...

Orion -1V was not my ride. Adding another SRM 4 without adjusting the heat sinks and lowering the armor? Well... not what i would do....

Orion -1M. Oh... my... god. What did the designers thought? XL engine because of tons of stupidity and seven tons of ammo inside the left torso. There was nothing in the left side that didn't hurt! 11 DHS and only 10 were needed. A NARC-beacon and two tons of ammo but the need for short range to attach that piece of crap thereby spending five tons were two for Artemis IV would have been enough, was disappointing. And no other weightsaving material with still enough room available.
Totally failed my expectations.

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Re: Orion - Good mech, best variant?
« Reply #14 on: 07 June 2011, 06:48:16 »
That was a joke since the Mariks don't have any outstanding assault mech  ;)

But they have lots of Awesomes.  How does something named AWESOME not stand out to you? ;)

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Re: Orion - Good mech, best variant?
« Reply #15 on: 07 June 2011, 07:07:20 »
He said outstanding, not awesome.  Important distinction.

Personally, the best variant of the Orion is the Albatross.
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Re: Orion - Good mech, best variant?
« Reply #16 on: 07 June 2011, 07:14:23 »
I'm another fan of the ON2-M variant, durable and solid hitting power. In the SW era I prefer the baseline ON1-K to the other variants.

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Re: Orion - Good mech, best variant?
« Reply #17 on: 07 June 2011, 09:46:29 »
Orion, my favourite heavy 'Mech from TRO 3025

ON1-K
If you need some heavy firepower in 3025 package, then Orion is the right 'Mech for you.

As usual, we are most interested in information about offensive and defensive capabilities of this 'Mech. Well, we won't be disappointed.

 It has average speed 4/6 for heavy 'Mech and what's very important - it has enough heat sinks to keep this speed during combat (10 single heat sinks). That's great advantage when compared with other heavy 'Mechs like Warhammer WHM-6R or Marauder MAD-3R because overheating cause them quite often move around battlefield with only 3/5 speed.

Let's start with weapons. The most important thing is to remember what the primary and secondary weapons are. Usually it's good tactics to keep enemy at range and punish him with AC-10 (20 rounds) and LRM-15 (16 salvos). It doesn't matter that much, if you miss because you have enough ammo at your disposal. With a bit of luck you can force him to make a pilot skill roll. These weapons are very efficient and produce together 8 heat points, so they do not affect your movement. You just should empty your ammo bins and then close to the enemy. By this time his armour should be broken and that's the time for you 2 Medium lasers and one SRM-4 pack (25 round). That's only one explosive critical to worry about. These short-range weapons produce 9 heat points only.

Defensive abilities of Orion are great too. It's 14,5 tons of armor (231 points) gives Orion great ability to stand up against almost anything on the battlefield of yesterday. Just compare it with aforementioned Marauder (184 points; weak side torsos and legs) and Warhammer (160 points). If you search for enemies which could endanger safety of Orion pilot, you should search among top-class heavies like Flashman FLS-7K or Black Knight BL-7-KNT, and of course assaults like Awesome.

Physical combat. If overheating or without ammunition, kick the enemy. Orion is heavy 'Mech and it's 15 point kick are nothing to be taken lightly. And you have 32 points of leg armor if the enemy manges to kick you.



There are 3 other Orion variants:

ON1-V
They tried to repair what wasn't broken and the result was not good. This variant is similar to ON1-K, but there are two important differences. Orion was fitted with second SRM-4 launcher and this fact should make him better brawler. However, this "brawler" lost full 3 tons of armor and its protection diminished accordingly to 184 points. That's not good and it will be worse. No more heat sinks, that's the real problem. Now Orion pilot has a problem how use his arsenal. Long- and medium ranges are okay, but 10 SHS is just not enough for short range. The heat can spike to 15 heat points, if you fire everything except LRMs. Especially if you add movement heat too. And not to talk about some Lyran Commando loaded with Inferno missiles.
I always thought that this variant was something as prototype, but the new MUL shows this 'Mech in common use.

ON1-V-DC
This is "double cockpit" modification used by FWLM. Completely the same as ON1-V, from which is derived. The only difference is the loss of 1 ton of ammunition for each weapon system used by ON1-V, so it was left with 1 ton of AC, LRM and SRM ammunition.

ON1-VA
Well, this is much better machine. The designers removed the LRM-15 launcher and otherwise they kept weapons from previous version, returned armor to 231 points and what's most important, they added another 6 (six!) heat sinks. That's total 16 SHS against 15 point of weapons heat (AC-10 + 2* Medium laser + 2* SRM-4). Yes, this a 'Mech ready to take the fight to enemy.



The renaissance of 3050 changed some important features of this old reliable workhorse. Let's check it.

ON1-M
Chassis is the same, and amount of standard armor diminished only slightly because 224 points is not bad. So how the designers on Kalidasa spared the free weight to change something? Well, they used extra-light engine. Orion is traditionally ammunition-based 'Mech, so the risk of critting the ammo is always high. At least designers added CASE to both side torsos. If ammo explosion occurs, Orion will be out of fight, but not destroyed entirely.

Weapons are not bad, they were swapped for their more modern versions. ON1-M comes armed with LBX-10 autocannon equipped with 2 tons of ammunition, so you can rip apart enemy's armor with slugs and then use cluster rounds to hit exposed inner systems. To finish enemy faster Orion pilot can use his new LRM-20 launcher too. There is no need to close.

Orion is armed for short-range fight too. Two Medium lasers and SRM-4 pack (now with 2 tons/50 rounds) left from previous models add more short-range firepower.

The last thing I should mention is a NARC beacon. That's a surprise! This toy was designed to help with getting more LRM and SRM missiles on target. If you mark enemy with NARC pod, all friendly unit will have higher percentage of missiles hitting the target (if their missiles loaded are NARC compliant of course). And here comes the big problem. The NARC system has so short range, that Orion pilot uses all his LRMs without NARC benefit. And Orion is not particularly fast to close 6 hexes to the enemy to have a reasonable chance to NARC him. Five tons completely lost to this system, dammit.

So how to summarize ON1-M? Positives are strong armor, good firepower and enough double heat sinks to use all weapons without worries. Negatives are the fragility of XL engine, 1 more ton of SRM ammo than needed and the worst is without any doubt NARC Beacon. This system was intended as important part of FWLM equipment, but writers left this idea and only Orion was left as a witness of this abandoned trend.

ON2-M
The last variant worth of wider description is ON2-M. You won't find any autocannons or SRMs anymore. Primary weapon is now Gauss rifle with 2 tons of solid metal projectiles. It is supported by LRM-15 enhanced with Artemis IV fire-control system. Yay! No more stupid closing to the enemy! 2 tons of missiles keep the launcher supplied. Enemy may try to close into minimum range of Gauss rifle and LRM system. Well, 3 Medium pulse lasers will be a nasty surprise for him.

And important notice - ON2-M got rid of fragile XL engine and used standard VLAR 300 reactor.

If you are unsure which 'Mech you should buy, ON2-M is the way to go.



There are three variants left:
ON3-MX
This 'Mech is designed to keep enemy at arm's-length. With improved Heavy Gauss rifle and extended-range LRM-10 it really doesn't need to. The only other weapons is a pair of extended-range Medium lasers. ON3-MX probably won't enter production.

ON1 "Kerensky"
It's hard to say why general Kerensky used Orion when he could select any Royal BattleMaster, Atlas or Cyclops.  But he was wise enough to have technicians to customize his ride. KaliYama Class 10 Autocannon was swapped for Gauss rifle. Two Medium lasers and Artemis enhanced SRM-4 pack were allowed to stay, but they were supplemented with brand new Snub-nose PPC. To handle the heat load, Star League "freezers" were installed instead common singles. The price paid for that is lower amount of armor (208 points).

Orion IIC
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Re: Orion - Good mech, best variant?
« Reply #18 on: 07 June 2011, 10:04:45 »
But they have lots of Awesomes.  How does something named AWESOME not stand out to you? ;)

What about the Albatross? Basicly, though, the Orion is the perfect Marik 'mech in that it is a Jack of All Trades,
perfect for the attitude of Marik of everything supports everything.
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Re: Orion - Good mech, best variant?
« Reply #19 on: 07 June 2011, 10:17:14 »
I'd have to disagree that it's even a "good 'Mech", honestly. :)
Note: The reason I say the ON1- series sucks is its Battle Value in BV 2.0. By itself, it's not too bad and the ON1-K can hold its own quite well. But with the horrific ammunition load out, bad heat curve and lack of secondary sinks in the event of an Engine hit, it simply gets outclassed by the TDR-5S as "THE" Intro Tech line 'Mech.

if you think a 5S T-Bolt can take on a K model Orion, be my guest.

as far as offical variants I have to agree that the ON2-M is the best canon configuration, the KERENSKY model is no slouch on the dueling grounds either.

for custom configurations I prefer to take the ON1-K and give it a series of sensible upgrades.  an LB-10X Autocannon, ER medium lasers, double heat sinks, and CASE.  if I am feeling really saucy add Ferro Fiberous armor and used the saved tonnage for Artemis on the LRM rack and Streak in place of the SRM 4, but every upgrade eats into your BV.
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Demos

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Re: Orion - Good mech, best variant?
« Reply #20 on: 07 June 2011, 10:36:14 »
I found the NARC useful. Not necessarily in Duels, but anyway in lance sized enaggement or larger.
Especially as a deterrent against brawlers, which close only, to get a NARC attached. If they broke LOS, no problem: shower them with a indirect fire salvo (maybe you have an Archer/Longbow/etc. as fire support unit).

So the ON-1M is o.k.

EDIT: corrected typo
« Last Edit: 07 June 2011, 10:39:46 by Demos »
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Re: Orion - Good mech, best variant?
« Reply #21 on: 07 June 2011, 10:37:17 »
the NARC Explosive rounds I have found also came in handy for that "over the top" damage, whether it was breaching armor, hitting a breach in armor, or forcing a PSR.  hell ONCE I knocked a pilot unconscious with a head hit from a NARC-EX round.
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Re: Orion - Good mech, best variant?
« Reply #22 on: 07 June 2011, 11:19:38 »
Best Orion variant?  ON1-K, hands down.  I mean, really, it's a mini-Atlas so what's not to love?  It's got good speed for it's weight, great armor, good weapons and can answer at all ranges.  Sure, the ON2-M is nice but not everyone plays advanced tech.  The ON1-K can be effective in any time frame.  Granted, some are better than others, but how many other 3025 era machines can claim to still be effective in 3092?

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Re: Orion - Good mech, best variant?
« Reply #23 on: 07 June 2011, 11:41:38 »
I would like to see an ON1-Kr, or an ON1-Mr.

Orion IIC
Clan Wolf produces this BattleMech as symbol which has not much common with our beloved Inner Sphere 'Mech. But that's a story for another occasion.

Really? I see much in common. Gauss instead of AC/10, LRM upgraded to LRM20, and medium lasers upgraded to ERLLs. The SRM4 stays the same. Nearly same amount of armor, and same speed with a standard engine. Heat sinks are 12 freezers, so it will be a little hot when firing everything, but it can manage three weapons without any problems.
The only thing that really stands out compared to the inner sphere variants is the laser upgrade.

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Re: Orion - Good mech, best variant?
« Reply #24 on: 07 June 2011, 11:57:27 »
I would like to see an ON1-Kr, or an ON1-Mr.

Really? I see much in common. Gauss instead of AC/10, LRM upgraded to LRM20, and medium lasers upgraded to ERLLs. The SRM4 stays the same. Nearly same amount of armor, and same speed with a standard engine. Heat sinks are 12 freezers, so it will be a little hot when firing everything, but it can manage three weapons without any problems.
The only thing that really stands out compared to the inner sphere variants is the laser upgrade.

It really feels a lot more like a fire support 'Mech than the command unit or line 'Mech the ON1-K was intended to be. Obviously it's an Orion, but it's a bit like the Phoenix Hawk IIC -- One has nothing to do with its predecessor in terms of use on the battlefield.
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Re: Orion - Good mech, best variant?
« Reply #25 on: 07 June 2011, 12:04:20 »
It really feels a lot more like a fire support 'Mech than the command unit or line 'Mech the ON1-K was intended to be. Obviously it's an Orion, but it's a bit like the Phoenix Hawk IIC -- One has nothing to do with its predecessor in terms of use on the battlefield.

see I always saw the Orion as an upgunned centurion, used for steady advances rather then command.  for the clans the use the the ER large laser enhances that ability.
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Re: Orion - Good mech, best variant?
« Reply #26 on: 07 June 2011, 12:04:48 »
Quote from: TigerShark
It really feels a lot more like a fire support 'Mech than the command unit or line 'Mech the ON1-K was intended to be. Obviously it's an Orion, but it's a bit like the Phoenix Hawk IIC -- One has nothing to do with its predecessor in terms of use on the battlefield.

I disagree. For the clans a single gauss rifle and a single LRM 20 is actually fairly lackluster long-range capability for a heavy or assault mech.  Add in the fact that CERMLs are a helluva gun that you'd be silly to not attempt to close to use, and this very much feels like a "line" or "soldier" mech.

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Re: Orion - Good mech, best variant?
« Reply #27 on: 07 June 2011, 12:05:14 »
Maybe I haven't written this in the best way.

 I meant the compairison betweem ON1-K and Orion IIC. When Inner Sphere was happy that they managed to continue production of ON1-K, Clanners in 2841 introduced such advanced BattleMech. Endo-steel chassis, ferro-fibrous armor, double heat sinks or Gauss rifle in the time when Inner Sphere just lost the ability to manufacture these items. And in broader sense, there is a big difference between IS Medium lasers with their 5 point damage and Clan ER Large lasers capable of reaching into long range with 10 points of damage.

There is a difference in numbers too. Clan Wolf produces Orion IIC in limited numbers and definitely it isn't their main frontline 'Mech. It's a reward for promising MechWarriors. It would be hard or maybe impossible to find this 'Mech in other Clan.

That's totaly different against Inner Sphere Orion, where Orion is and always was one of the most produced designs. More so today because FWL exported them everywhere - Federated Commonwealth, Draconis Combine, Periphery ... It is or almost until today it was the mainstay of Free Worlds League Military.

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Re: Orion - Good mech, best variant?
« Reply #28 on: 07 June 2011, 12:06:48 »
It really feels a lot more like a fire support 'Mech than the command unit or line 'Mech the ON1-K was intended to be. Obviously it's an Orion, but it's a bit like the Phoenix Hawk IIC -- One has nothing to do with its predecessor in terms of use on the battlefield.

Why should the IIC be no line unit?  ???
It has a standard engine, the speed is now comparable to a lot of modern clan omnis and the armament is, well, long-range, but in no way a special fire support.

IMHO the Orion IIC is more similar to its original than most of the other IICs.
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Re: Orion - Good mech, best variant?
« Reply #29 on: 07 June 2011, 12:15:28 »
Actually you will not find the Orion IIC in any other Clan besides Crusader & Warden Wolves.

And I vote Perseus too.
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