Orion - Good mech, best variant?

[martian]

Actually you will not find the Orion IIC in any other Clan besides Crusader & Warden Wolves.

Personally I think so, but I wrote the sentence to be sure that nobody will nail me up. Written this way it's better.

You know - Homeworlds, Reaving, Clan Wolf units there.
Or war with Hell's Horses, defection of Omega Galaxy - who knows if there is one or two Orion IICs in other clan than Wolves.

And if we return to original Orion ON1-K, there is a nice picture of it:

http://punakettu.deviantart.com/art/Crash-Landing-160448505

[Banzai]

ON1-K was my workhorse heavy in the 3025 era.  Great balance of ranges, better armor than a Marauder or Warhammer, and 4/6 speed.  AC 10 means it takes longer to build up heat and it has decent ammo bins for both the AC and LRM. Love it.

ON1-VA  I refer to this as the "Knife Fighter" version.  One of the best urban brawlers.

ON2-M  Good upgrade that keeps the basic flavor of the design without jumping into XL territory. 

[Southern Coyote]

Thanks for all the input.  Wow...this thread exploded overnight...

So, next question, what variant is the current rescuplt of the Orion?

[JPArbiter]

Actually you will not find the Orion IIC in any other Clan besides Crusader & Warden Wolves.

And I vote Perseus too.

there was an Orion IIC in the Battlecorps TO&E in 3068, it got replaced by a Verfolger after that Exile warrior went back to Ark Royal to request Surkai for going AWOL

[Weirdo]

So, next question, what variant is the current rescuplt of the Orion?

It's a -K, I believe. Then again, the parts are interchangeable enough that making it any other variant shouldn't be hard at all.

ON1-V-DC
This is "double cockpit" modification used by FWLM. Completely the same as ON1-V, from which is derived. The only difference is the loss of 1 ton of ammunition for each weapon system used by ON1-V, so it was left with 1 ton of AC, LRM and SRM ammunition.

Murphy's Purple Dice on a Monkey's Stick in Spaaace, where did this come from? :o It's amazing!

[martian]

http://www.camospecs.com/Miniature.asp?ID=3425

http://www.ralparthaeurope.co.uk/20848-orion-on1k-p-278.html

If I look here, I would say it's Orion ON1-K, because it's the only variant with one SRM-4 pack in the left arm. The record sheet positions it into the left torso, but fluff clearly says that it is in the left arm. If the Ral Partha Co. wanted to be as accurate as possible, they would had to make six holes instead of four. But it's very nice miniature nevertheless.

[Southern Coyote]

Could I run the resculpt as a 1M or a 2M if wanted?

[Neufeld]

Could I run the resculpt as a 1M or a 2M if wanted?

Of course, this is not Warhammer.

[Weirdo]

Could I run the resculpt as a 1M or a 2M if wanted?

If you have that Orion, and someone tells you that you can only run it as an ON1-K, that person is not worth playing with. If you don't have any Orion minis and someone tells you you can't use an Orion because you don't have the mini, that person is also not worth playing with.

On the otherhand, if you want to go ahead and modify your Orion mini into a 1M or 2M or any other variant, feel free. Just because you don't have to do something, doesn't mean you shouldn't do it ever. 8)

[Reaver]

1-K and the 2-M are the best variants of the design.  The 1-K is one of the best 3025 heavy designs, albeit somewhat underestimated because of the current love of zombie flashbulbs.  It puts up a substantial amount of damage through bracket firing, and it can stay in the game for a very long time.  The only thing it really has to worry about is TAC's, because a quick shot to the engine to a mech with 10 single heat sinks more or less junks the mech and forces its withdrawal.  I've found the risk of ammo explosion is overblown:  14 tons of armor is as much as a Battlemaster, and if you have more than three of your ammo bins loaded when your armor is breached, then you've done something wrong.

The 2-M keeps one of the best assets of the 1-K (combat effectiveness in a cost effective package), while making the design somewhat more durable and better at fighting at all ranges.  With the inclusion of an Artemis and Gauss, it has increased firepower at extended ranges, and because of the inclusion of double heat sinks, it can effectively alpha rather than bracket fire.  Additionally,  the 2-M is in my experience better at long campaigns than the 1-K because it is somewhat less reliant on ammunition based weaponry.  The only real drawback the 2-M has over the 1-K is that it is less effective as a stand alone design:  it has marginal critseeking ability, and without the SRM it is somewhat less effective (and wasteful) to use it against vehicles.

[Arkansas Warrior]

Leaving aside the IIC, since it's hard to compare one Clantech version to a spate of IS versions (and I'd argue the Orion IIC is actually more comparable to an AS7-K than any heavy, but anyway)  I'd say the Perseus, especially the D.

[martian]

...where did this come from? :o It's amazing!

Well, it's official version, you can check it in MUL for yourself:
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/2337

Otherwise this 'Mech is from MechWarrior Companion (that one with purple Awesome on cover), described here quite briefly ...

[Southern Coyote]

Hmm...Well, you folks have given me a lot to think about.  This mech is one I really want to like, but I have a hard time liking the classics of Battletech sometimes.

One more question, because you folks have been so helpful.  Can the -K hold its own in Tech Level 2 combat?

[Weirdo]

I'm leaning towards yes. While it may not be able to stand up to more advanced 'mechs of the same size, I can see it being a nasty opponent against a smaller heavy 'mech(and a modern 75-tonner would know it was in a fight). That thick armor is just as good now as it was in earlier eras, and the ranged weapons still provide a varied punch that any heavy must respect. The deep ammo bins mean it can use modern alternate ammo types, allowing even this old classic to spring surprises on an unwary opponent. Many have decried the large explosive bins as a critical flaw, but many new ammo types will empty those bins faster in addition to enhancing the Orion's firepower. Honestly, the greatest flaw is the heat curve. An older Orion simply cannot keep up the rate of fire that a newer 'mech usually can, a problem made worse by the proliferation of plasma weaponry. Your heat curve isn't too bad at longer ranges, so my advice would be to hold out at long range for as long as you can, then dash into pointblank range and get physical. Your MLs can heat you up quickly, so my advice would be to rely on your cannon and SRMs, and punch whenever possible.

[Paladin1]

For the most part, I'll second what Weirdo said but I want to reinforce the fact that this design, despite it's age, has some serious strong points going for it and armor and ammo bins are two of the biggest.  I would also urge you to remember that if you load up a ton of frag ammo for the missiles, you have a very well rounded design which can hold it's own against infantry swarms until specialized units arrive to deal with the PBI or until you can break contact if necessary.

[Weirdo]

Ah, creative ammo allocation; the poor man's OmniMech. O0

[TigerShark]

For the most part, I'll second what Weirdo said but I want to reinforce the fact that this design, despite it's age, has some serious strong points going for it and armor and ammo bins are two of the biggest.  I would also urge you to remember that if you load up a ton of frag ammo for the missiles, you have a very well rounded design which can hold it's own against infantry swarms until specialized units arrive to deal with the PBI or until you can break contact if necessary.

I really doubt that the ammo bins are the "strong point." :-\ They're actually the primary method of death for this thing. It would do far better to downgrade the AC/10 or swap it for a PPC. 6 bins of ammo without CASE is just asking for trouble and especially if you play with floating criticals.

[Martius]

The trick is to get the ammo bins empty fast enough while still hving some impact on the battlefield.

If I expect my Orion to get too much attention I give it two tons of precision Ammo. Sure, you have only 10 shots, but on a modern battlefield where heavies run 9 or jump 7 the -2 to hit helps a lot.

I also suggest to get some smoke for the LRMs to blind those dual/triple/quadruple headcapper designs that some people are fond of using. A LRM 15 makes quite a useful smokecloud (7 hexes of heavy smoke, lasting 7 rounds), effectively making a camper useless for a few rounds or forcing it to give up its camping spot.
If possible take some mines as well and try to empty the LRM bins before taking serious counter fire by using indirect fire if necessary. You don't think your puny LRM 15 can keep up with the volume of long range fire other Mechs can now produce, do you? So empty those bins early.

Then wade in without hesitating, trusting the excellent armor, using the short range weapons and kicks to take out whatever you can until you go down in a blaze of glory or all enemies cower in defeat.

[Jim1701]

For old tech I'm kind of partial to the VA model myself.  The AC will get precision rounds of course.  Somewhat lacking in the range department but it makes a pretty good in-fighter.  The thing I like best about the Orion is that it can fit into just about ANY lance and be effective.  This is particularly true of the K model. 

[StCptMara]

For old tech I'm kind of partial to the VA model myself.  The AC will get precision rounds of course.  Somewhat lacking in the range department but it makes a pretty good in-fighter.  The thing I like best about the Orion is that it can fit into just about ANY lance and be effective.  This is particularly true of the K model.

The Orion is a Marik 'mech. Marik tends to have a tendency to build JOATs. Sure, there are exceptions, but...
One of the big advantages of the Orion, in any variant, is that it is not specialized. This also ends up its disadvantage.
An Orion with a Lance is where it belongs..it can switch to support the infighting specialists, or it can screen the long range
specialists.

[JadeHellbringer]

I always used to love dropping the LRM rack for a couple of large lasers, and the AC for another SRM rack and heat sinks. Made for kind of a mini-Thug in a way.

It's hard to screw up the Orion, though the 1M sure did a masterful job of it. The 2M is a great machine, though I'd rather go with six regular mediums than the pulses. Try that rig sometime and see what happens!

[StCptMara]

I always used to love dropping the LRM rack for a couple of large lasers, and the AC for another SRM rack and heat sinks. Made for kind of a mini-Thug in a way.

It's hard to screw up the Orion, though the 1M sure did a masterful job of it. The 2M is a great machine, though I'd rather go with six regular mediums than the pulses. Try that rig sometime and see what happens!

The upside for you...nothing there to jam..

Actually..it makes sense for you to go with as little ammo as possible...
"Avoid Ammo Explosion on 6+....2! Humpinfriggenshnigledorf!"

[JadeHellbringer]

The upside for you...nothing there to jam..

Actually..it makes sense for you to go with as little ammo as possible...
"Avoid Ammo Explosion on 6+....2! Humpinfriggenshnigledorf!"

I'm just not an LRM fan in 4th SW play usually. The AC I do miss, but it's worth losing an AC-10 to gain the ability to fire twin large lasers constantly like this can. I even modded the mini a while back using a new-sculpt Orion, leaving off the LRM pack and replacing the lower left arm with the twin-PPC alternate lower arm from the Shrike.