Which Clan Mech/Vehicle design would you like to see replicated using IS tech?

[Archangel]

The question is pretty self-explanatory.  Ever since the Clans first arrived in the Inner Sphere, realms have copied (or at least attempted to copy) Clan technology and designs.  Designs such as the Black Hawk-KU, Rakshasa, Stiletto and the BTL-C-2O Battle Cobra have been the result of such endeavors.  Which Clan Mech/Vehicle design would you like to see replicated using IS tech?  Perhaps the IS design could even surpass its Clan predecessor especially in vehicle designs where the Clans have always been loathe to invest too much technology and resources.

[Taurevanime]

I wouldn't try to copy at all. As the designs you have mentioned have highlighted, the advantage Clan technology has over the Inner Sphere is too great to try and copy a design in most cases. As you would have to sacrifice something to attempt to come close, such as ammunition, armour, speed, weight, etc.

It is easier to try and copy Clan designs that make heavy use of LBX autocannons, as they do not have as great an advantage in this field, usually only saving one ton of weight compared to the Inner Sphere models. And trying to copy designs that make heavy use of missiles is downright impossible due to the Clan versions weighing half as much.

The Rakshasa is the best example of why not to copy a Clan design. Pretty much everyone designs that it is a poor copy of the Mad Cat, (Though to be fair not as much as a lemon as most make it out. Due to being compared to a superb Clan design) but the one variant that just gave up on trying to copy the Mad Cat tends to be seen as a rather strong design.

It is however a interesting design challenge though to try and design something that is close to the capabillity of some Clan designs using the inferior Inner Sphere technology.

[Iron Mongoose]

The easiest to do are the Clan mechs that mainly use autocannons, like the Predator/Rifleman whichever it is that's nearly the same.  They both have LB10s, with 6/12/18 range brackets.  The IS ones only mass a ton more.  They both have two ER MLs and two ER SLs.  They are both driven by an XL engine to 5/8.

But, where the IS MLs only come into play as the ACs are closing to medium range, the Clan MLs reach three hexes more and can be effective at long range.  The SLs are also more effective, with 40% more power and 33% more range.  And, when the armor (very similar) is breached, the Predator can lose a whole side torso and fight on, while similar damage would doom the Rifleman.

So, even though you can get very, very close to replicating a Clan mech's load out, the fact that Clan weapons are better and Clan engines are better will make it very hard to every replicate the capabilities of a Clan mech.

[Fireangel]

The issue would be how closely does the result have to be?

Clan XLs can be replicated either with ISXLEs (for greater vulnerability) or LFEs (for greater weight).
SRM/LRMs can be done either full-size (for double weight) or half size (keeping the same weight).

Ranges in most other weapons are shorter for IS versions, so they will suffer in that regard - BTW: the cLPL's closest IS equivalent is the ISPPC; trying to use an ISLPL in the same application is epic-level FAIL.

Problem is that as 'mechs get bigger, they need higher rated engines to maintain the same MP profile, but the non-linear weight increase makes it progressively difficult to do the same things found on the clan prototype.

IMHO, it is best to use the clan prototype as inspiration for a new design rather than try to ape an existing design.

Of course, that being said, if the "copy" uses omnitech, actual clantech pod weapons can be used instead...

[A. Lurker]

Count me among the ones who don't see the point. Trying to replicate a Clan unit with IS tech is simply a losing proposition -- pound for pound, Clantech versions of notionally shared equipment are just so much lighter, more compact, and generally better than the IS ones that trying to ape the Clans' exact designs with the Spheroid tools at hand can only end in heartache and frustration.

In my book, Inner Sphere designers are just plain better off concentrating on coming up with good original designs of their own. Be they designs cunningly equipped with toys the Clans actually don't have, Omnis that can make use of captured or bought Clantech without having to be designed for the task from the ground up, or even simply something "basic", even "primitive", that nonetheless simply works...

[evilauthor]

Oddly enough, the first thing I want the Inner Sphere to REPLICATE is Clan CASE. Zero tons, Zero crits, can go in ANY location, instead of what the Inner Sphere is actually stuck with. Not to mention that Clan CASE should be the easiest thing in their tech base that the Inner Sphere should be able to copy, especially on new designs where you can design the internal structure from scratch.

Yeah, yeah, I know there are other techs that have higher priority and all like Clan DHS and...

Oh wait. Y'all are talking about aping Clan designs with purely IS tech. Bleah!  ;)

[House Davie Merc]

This is going to sound odd ,but this mech DOES originate with a Clanner .

I'd like to see a 3025/level 1 tech version of the Bounty Hunter's Marauder
become canon.

Even if it was a custom it did come from Natasha didn't it ?

Something with the same 3/5/3 movement and max armor but
with perhaps a few less medium lasers and maby downgrade the
3rd PPC to a large laser like the D variant  to add some single heat sinks .

I'd also like to see the original version with the double heat sinks
be produced by someone somewhere past 3040 .

[glitterboy2098]

you can make a very good copy of an Oro tank using IS tech. all you really have to lose is the ERML and it's additional heatsinks. which save you more than enough tonnage to fit IS CASE, some extra ammo, and a bit of extra armor.

[Snake Eyes]

I actually did an IS version of the Shoden, using MML-9s in place of the ATM-9s

[Go For The Throat]

I believe Snake Eyes, and glitterboy2098 are headed in the right direction, vehicles are the way to go between those two options. Clan vehicle technology did not progress like that of 'Mechs, so the Inner Sphere would have a much better, and easier time replicating designs since weapon mass is the only major difference.

On the other side of the coin, why waste money on R&D for a new prodiction line and blueprints when you can buy from the Diamond Sharks/Sea Foxes. Just saying...

[Colt Ward]

Yeah, I was going to go with a IS version of the Zoyra for AA, ECM & IDF duty.  The LBX weight is close enough, drop the Artemis, and IIRC a Fuel Cell works quite well for a light 4/6 designed tank.

[ShadowRaven]

Tanks are definitely the way to go. Though with some of the more recent weapons, it becomes possible to, after a fashion, replicate things. An IS version of a Pack hunter with a snub nose PPC for example could be quite useful.

[Ian Sharpe]

Tanks are definitely the way to go. Though with some of the more recent weapons, it becomes possible to, after a fashion, replicate things. An IS version of a Pack hunter with a snub nose PPC for example could be quite useful.

The Jackal wouldn't be a bad starting point for that. 

[Dragon Cat]

This is going to sound odd ,but this mech DOES originate with a Clanner .

I'd like to see a 3025/level 1 tech version of the Bounty Hunter's Marauder
become canon.

Even if it was a custom it did come from Natasha didn't it ?

Something with the same 3/5/3 movement and max armor but
with perhaps a few less medium lasers and maby downgrade the
3rd PPC to a large laser like the D variant  to add some single heat sinks .

I'd also like to see the original version with the double heat sinks
be produced by someone somewhere past 3040 .

The Bounty Hunters Mech is already canon all the Mechs are in ISP 1

Marauder 3025, 40s and 50s then his Mad Cat and Marauder 2

[rlbell]

About the only clan mech made with IS tech that I can think of as being worth fielding is a Bane, as IS tech does allow you to produce one that can chase the original off of the field.  The Bane has ten UAC/2's on a 3/5 chassis.  IS tech cannot match the UAC/2's range, but there is an IS weapon that needs the same tonnage and crit space-- the LAC/5.  One LAC/5 is not much of a weapon, but half a score is a force to be reckoned with, much like the UAC/2.

[A. Lurker]

About the only clan mech made with IS tech that I can think of as being worth fielding is a Bane, as IS tech does allow you to produce one that can chase the original off of the field.  The Bane has ten UAC/2's on a 3/5 chassis.  IS tech cannot match the UAC/2's range, but there is an IS weapon that needs the same tonnage and crit space-- the LAC/5.  One LAC/5 is not much of a weapon, but half a score is a force to be reckoned with, much like the UAC/2.

Mmm. The "can't match its range" part kind of kills the concept for me. The slower your 'Mech, the more you need range in order to be able to contribute, and a 3/5 movement profile married to a bunch of guns that can't reach out past 15 hexes and consider everything beyond 10 "long range" doesn't precisely fill me with confidence.

'Course, one probably could kind of market it as a "faster cousin to the Annihilator"... ;)

[Terrace]

It's easy to outdo the Hellbringer with Inner Sphere tech. Just slap on Endo-Steel in addition to the XL Engine. With 11.5 tons of standard armor, it's better protected than the Hellbringer, with only a half-ton less podspace.

[evilauthor]

10 Ultra AC/2s is 20-40 damage depending on rate of fire used (and higher fire rate increasing the odds that one or more of those UACs neuters itself). A pair of LRM-20s and/or HPPCs and/or Gauss Rifles should be able to match the average damage if not have quite the same range, especially if you throw in C3 nets or something for improved targeting. An IS Assault Mech can easily carry that much firepower.

[Fireangel]

About the only clan mech made with IS tech that I can think of as being worth fielding is a Bane, as IS tech does allow you to produce one that can chase the original off of the field.  The Bane has ten UAC/2's on a 3/5 chassis.  IS tech cannot match the UAC/2's range, but there is an IS weapon that needs the same tonnage and crit space-- the LAC/5.  One LAC/5 is not much of a weapon, but half a score is a force to be reckoned with, much like the UAC/2.

I'm with Lurker on this one; the LAC/5's 0/5/10/15 range profile simply can't match the cUAC/2's 2/9/18/27 unless you are playing in a postage stamp-size battlefield.


        1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27
cUAC/2 +2 +1 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +2 +2 +2 +2 +2 +2 +2 +2 +2 +4 +4 +4 +4 +4 +4 +4 +4 +4
LAC/2  +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +2 +2 +2 +2 +2 +4 +4 +4 +4 +4 -----------------------------------


The numbers alone tell the story quite eloquently.

[Fireangel]

10 Ultra AC/2s is 20-40 damage depending on rate of fire used (and higher fire rate increasing the odds that one or more of those UACs neuters itself). A pair of LRM-20s and/or HPPCs and/or Gauss Rifles should be able to match the average damage if not have quite the same range, especially if you throw in C3 nets or something for improved targeting. An IS Assault Mech can easily carry that much firepower.

What makes the Bane scary is not the sheer damage, but the consistency; if you are inside its range, expect to get hit; the psychological effect is profound, both in-universe and at the tabletop... especially if some poor sap steps into the 9-or-less range bracket and the Bane player announces: "I'm standing still and opening up on full auto on that tin can..."  >:/!

[rlbell]

I'm with Lurker on this one; the LAC/5's 0/5/10/15 range profile simply can't match the cUAC/2's 2/9/18/27 unless you are playing in a postage stamp-size battlefield.


        1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27
cUAC/2 +2 +1 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +2 +2 +2 +2 +2 +2 +2 +2 +2 +4 +4 +4 +4 +4 +4 +4 +4 +4
LAC/2  +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +2 +2 +2 +2 +2 +4 +4 +4 +4 +4 -----------------------------------


The numbers alone tell the story quite eloquently.

If you are fighting on featureless maps, I will yield the point.  On terrain with ridges and small stands of trees to break up LOS ranges, things will be different.  Even on a clear map, one-on-one, the Bane will be moving away from it.

What makes the Bane scary is not the sheer damage, but the consistency; if you are inside its range, expect to get hit; the psychological effect is profound, both in-universe and at the tabletop... especially if some poor sap steps into the 9-or-less range bracket and the Bane player announces: "I'm standing still and opening up on full auto on that tin can..."  >:/!

I know that one.  I am running a campaign where the opfor has plentiful numbers of 100t 2/3/0 mechs with eight AC/2's and eight tons of ammo (mech designed to protect infantry formations from air attack).  The players fear them after one guy caught a lucky round to head, failed the consciousness roll, and was an immobilised target for the next turn.  As the opfor is trying to empty their bins before the inevitable ammo explosion, all shots are taken and the tyranny of numbers means there is a 20% chance of scoring at least one hit out of eight, at target numbers of 12.  (I am fond of the tyranny of numbers)

[Fireangel]

If you are fighting on featureless maps, I will yield the point.  On terrain with ridges and small stands of trees to break up LOS ranges, things will be different.  Even on a clear map, one-on-one, the Bane will be moving away from it.

Unless you are at literally knife-fighting ranges (in which case everybody has done something wrong, because bringing a UAC-2 slow boat into a city is a Bad Idea^TM), the UAC/2 boat will always have the advantage over a LAC/5 boat of the same speed.

At ranges 1-5, LAC/5 has a decidedly clear advantage (even greater in the 1-2 range), but at ranges 6+, the UAC/2 trades sheer damage (and damage concentration) for greater consistency, hitting more often under most circumstances.

At a range of exactly 10 hexes, the LAC/5 is again superior, having the exact same chance to hit as the UAC/2, but then at ranges 11-15 the UAC/2 again gets better. More than twice the ammo (straight UAC/2 for LAC/5 swap, remember?) also means that the UAC/2 boat can afford to take riskier shots without worrying about ammo as much as the LAC/5 boat.

At 16+ range, there is simply no contest, since the LAC/5 can't even reach that far.



I'll posit an even better choice than the LAC/5; the LAC/2; the range increases to 18 (the PPC range with no minimum) and the weight savings allow for the installation of a Targeting Computer to increase hit chances.

[Fallen_Raven]

Replicating Clan designs with IS tech can either be an exercise in futility, or a great way to get a solid machine. The Rakshasa is a terrible Clan 'mech, but it is a fully serviceable IS heavy. The O Bakemono may not be an exact copy of the Naga, but it shoots a pair of Arrow IVs just fine. The point being that you need to replicate the concept of a Clan design rather than the stats.

I figure that 6 machine guns on a fast 'mech is scary for any infantryman, even if the Piranha is slightly more gratuitous.

[StoneRhino]

I wouldn't try to copy at all. As the designs you have mentioned have highlighted, the advantage Clan technology has over the Inner Sphere is too great to try and copy a design in most cases. As you would have to sacrifice something to attempt to come close, such as ammunition, armour, speed, weight, etc.

It is easier to try and copy Clan designs that make heavy use of LBX autocannons, as they do not have as great an advantage in this field, usually only saving one ton of weight compared to the Inner Sphere models. And trying to copy designs that make heavy use of missiles is downright impossible due to the Clan versions weighing half as much.

The Rakshasa is the best example of why not to copy a Clan design. Pretty much everyone designs that it is a poor copy of the Mad Cat, (Though to be fair not as much as a lemon as most make it out. Due to being compared to a superb Clan design) but the one variant that just gave up on trying to copy the Mad Cat tends to be seen as a rather strong design.

It is however a interesting design challenge though to try and design something that is close to the capabillity of some Clan designs using the inferior Inner Sphere technology.

The Rakasha is a pet project of mine, similar to the zeus where its not bad as it is, but theres more there, but its a challenge to find that point where the mech is better then the original, but has not strayed to far from the original as to be a unique design.

The Raka is no match for a madcat. The madcat's success with the fan base is really due to it being a great platform to display the differences in clan tech vs IS. 2xLRM20s? Better lasers in large and medium sizes? The only other thing it doesn't display is the difference in gauss rifle tonnage, but even then it does not have as big an advantage as clan LRms with tonnage and min range advantages.

The best way to mimic a madcat using a rakasha would be to use MRMs instead of LRMs.

***edit***

this got me to poke at the design again, instead of opting for mrms I decided to do something that could even the score a bit.

I dropped the speed by 1, I know its supposed to be as close to as a madcat as possible but it did free up tonnage that it really needs. You can't match clan gear by going for the same speed, overall tonnage, and damage output, its just not possible no matter what because people give the clanners their own version of everything the IS gets save the C3.

i upped the armor by .5, not huge.

opted for 6x LRM5s which is going to get 18 points of the madcat's 24 points of lrm damage a turn.
dropped the 2xERLLs for 3x light ppcs and an LBX5 with 1ton in cluster and slugs, giving me 20 points of damage to match the madcat's ERLL's 20 damage.
Went with 4xMLs giving me 20 damage for the madcat's 2ERML+MPL's 21 points of damage.

When it comes to ammo the LRMs on my Rakasha gets 8 turns of firing vs the 6 for the madcat.

If you can get the madcat to deplete it's lrm ammo before getting into short range it will have a potential for 41 damage(erml,mlp,2xerll) while the rak can put out 40 damage (20 from MLs, 15 from LPPCs, and 5 from LBX5) with just a slight bit of overheat.

It can't match the range brackets of the madcat, but it looks like it would have a change against a madcat though.

[Stormfury]

The Sphere could improve on the Nova Prime.

The Komodo and Black Hawk-KUs aren't a bad start, but on a 50-ton chassis you can get a 5/8/5 mover with full armour, 17 DHS, and 12 Medium Lasers. Make it a 55-tonner, and you can add another DHS and a C3 Slave. Make it 60 tons with Light Ferro-Fibrous armour, and you can have 17 DHS, the 12 Medium Lasers, C3, TAG and an ECM Suitem but you have to give up the hands. Pushing it to 70 tons might be a bit excessive, but that gains you the space to expand the electronics to include an Active Probe,better armour, and if you're willing to give up the hands, TSM to boot. Or you can use a Compact Gyro, ditch the TAG, and have TSM and hands...

[House Davie Merc]

The Bounty Hunters Mech is already canon all the Mechs are in ISP 1

Marauder 3025, 40s and 50s then his Mad Cat and Marauder 2

As a "One of" custom design .

I want it to be a factory manufactured variant that's accepted as available
for in game use .

Something anyone could choose for a game .

[deathfrombeyond]

In MW3, I really wuved the combination of high mobility and guided missile spam of the Shadow Cat B.

It's too bad that missiles in BattleTech aren't nearly as effective as they were in MW3. Still, the TBT-7M is a decent Inner Sphere attempt to duplicate guided missile spam on a highly mobile platform...and it was introduced before the Inner Sphere even met the Clans!

[Nightlord01]

In MW3, I really wuved the combination of high mobility and guided missile spam of the Shadow Cat B.

It's too bad that missiles in BattleTech aren't nearly as effective as they were in MW3. Still, the TBT-7M is a decent Inner Sphere attempt to duplicate guided missile spam on a highly mobile platform...and it was introduced before the Inner Sphere even met the Clans!

See, this is the flaw in this entire concept. A battlefield niche may be filled by just about any purpose built design. The difference comes with quality. Clan equipment is simply better, no matter what way you cut it, even if you use cutting edge tech on an IS chassis, the clan equipment will give the original an advantage, even if its only range.

Take the Donar, ERLL and SRMs. You could quite easily make an inner sphere VTOL with the same movement profile, you can even give it comparable damage and range, but you will have a fraction of the Donars armour, and likely will have to reduce the speed a bit. If you kit out a unit with IS tech, you are playing second fiddle to clan tech, this doesn't mean you can't use it in the role, it just wont be the best in universe.

Don't try to replicate the unit, try to replicate the effect that unit provides.

[evilauthor]

Don't try to replicate the unit, try to replicate the effect that unit provides.

You mean an effect like the other side going, "WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!"

Hmm... not easy there.

[deathfrombeyond]

See, this is the flaw in this entire concept....

Don't try to replicate the unit, try to replicate the effect that unit provides.

Um, did you read the entirety of what I said?

I wasn't specifically talking about how impossible it is for the Inner Sphere to field a unit with similar capabilities as the MW3 Shadow Cat B, I was lamenting that BattleTech missiles aren't as effective as MW3 missiles.

Also, did you notice that I cited an Inner Sphere equivalent to the Shadow Cat B? Yeesh.

[Sabelkatten]

I've IS-ified the Timby (well, OK, I made the Rakshasa an omni), the Summoner (omni again, very nice chassis btw), the Dire Wolf (not a fan of XLFE assault) and the Mars (really nice assault tank!).

And I've accidentally built the Hellion using SW-era tech. (same name, 30 tons,  8/12, 1 ML each arm, 1 SRM2 each side torso). Hadn't even noticed the clan mech until I got its unit picture in MM! :D

The Cougar could be an interesting addition to the IS arsenal.

[Terrace]

Did nobody notice when I mentioned that you can actually improve on the canon Hellbringer with IS tech? Seriously, it's stupidly easy. Just drop in endo-steel, boost armor to 11.5 tons, and you've got something that only gives up a half-ton of podspace, while being much better protected.

Now, if you complain about IS weaponry being inferior, I'll grant you that... but since it'd be an Omnimech, you could capture Clan omni-pods and have a decent chance of outfighting and outlasting Clan Hellbringers.

[Nightlord01]

Um, did you read the entirety of what I said?

I wasn't specifically talking about how impossible it is for the Inner Sphere to field a unit with similar capabilities as the MW3 Shadow Cat B, I was lamenting that BattleTech missiles aren't as effective as MW3 missiles.

Also, did you notice that I cited an Inner Sphere equivalent to the Shadow Cat B? Yeesh.

I was agreeing with you DFB :P I'm sorry I wasn't clearer.
In particular I was agreeing with your assessment that the Trebuchet and the Shadow Cat B shared the same battlefield niche. Its a great example of replicating the effect.

[SCC]

@Terrace, I tried doing that, getting it to work required making it 5 tons heavier and HFF armor

[Terrace]

@Terrace, I tried doing that, getting it to work required making it 5 tons heavier and HFF armor

And you missed the point. The canon Hellbringer uses standard internal structure and eight tons of standard armor (which is CRIMINALLY inadequate). Combined with a 325 XL engine, that's 28.5 tons of podspace.

Now, set your copy of SSW or HM to use Inner Sphere tech. Use an IS 325 XL, with IS endo-steel. Boost the armor to 11.5 tons of Standard. Podspace is 28 tons. It's still a 65 tonner, but much better protected. And with it being an Omnimech, you could steal Clan Omnipods for that extra firepower boost. It's still an objectively better Omnimech that the canon Hellbringer, it's just that the Clan Hellbringer might have higher BV because BV is biased towards the Clans.

[Fireangel]

And you missed the point. The canon Hellbringer uses standard internal structure and eight tons of standard armor (which is CRIMINALLY inadequate). Combined with a 325 XL engine, that's 28.5 tons of podspace.

Now, set your copy of SSW or HM to use Inner Sphere tech. Use an IS 325 XL, with IS endo-steel. Boost the armor to 11.5 tons of Standard. Podspace is 28 tons. It's still a 65 tonner, but much better protected. And with it being an Omnimech, you could steal Clan Omnipods for that extra firepower boost. It's still an objectively better Omnimech that the canon Hellbringer, it's just that the Clan Hellbringer might have higher BV because BV is biased towards the Clans.

Y'know, just for aesthetics, that IS Hellbie might be better if it packed just 11 tons of armour; it would have exactly the same tonnage for podspace as the clan Hellbie, theoretically allowing straight swaps with clan pods (provided crit space holds).

[Terrace]

Y'know, just for aesthetics, that IS Hellbie might be better if it packed just 11 tons of armour; it would have exactly the same tonnage for podspace as the clan Hellbie, theoretically allowing straight swaps with clan pods (provided crit space holds).

True, but the 11.5 tons came from this one guy on the Solaris7 Armories who's been making a decent go at IS-tech equivalents of Clan Omnimechs. His version of the Hellbringer has 11.5 tons of armor, and it's A configuration is arguably MORE dangerous than the canon A, with a RAC/5 instead of an UAC/5. Given me a moment and I'll link you guys to his armory.

Edit: Here you go. It's for an alternate universe where the Clans don't exist, and the Inner Sphere develops Omnitech anyway. There's other differences, but that's the basics. That guy pretty much wins this thread when it comes to Mechs.

[Fireangel]

True, but the 11.5 tons came from this one guy on the Solaris7 Armories who's been making a decent go at IS-tech equivalents of Clan Omnimechs. His version of the Hellbringer has 11.5 tons of armor, and it's A configuration is arguably MORE dangerous than the canon A, with a RAC/5 instead of an UAC/5. Given me a moment and I'll link you guys to his armory.

But since we are discussing replicating clan designs, an 11-armour Hellbie can better replicate the clan version.

[George_Labour]

The Stone Rhino (Behemoth) has always appeared to be mostly replicable with only a few tweaks.

Using a Light engine and Endo Steel lets you use two IS gauss rifles with 3 tons of ammo and CASE plus either standard PPCs or IS large pulse lasers, and 11 double heat sinks while retaining the ability to jump. If you don't want max armor you can also still have a ton for a medium laster to use in place of the clan small pulse, or another ton of ammo.

Or if you're the world of blake...you just build some Omegas.

[Fireangel]

The Stone Rhino (Behemoth) has always appeared to be mostly replicable with only a few tweaks.

Using a Light engine and Endo Steel lets you use two IS gauss rifles with 3 tons of ammo and CASE plus either standard PPCs or IS large pulse lasers, and 11 double heat sinks while retaining the ability to jump. If you don't want max armor you can also still have a ton for a medium laster to use in place of the clan small pulse, or another ton of ammo.

Here we have a problem; the ISLPL is a completely different weapon system than the clan LPL; they are so completely different in range it is not even funny. The closest thing in the IS to the cLPL is the plain-vanilla PPC... or a pair of LPPCs (two rolls to hit is often better than one... and it matches tonnage/crits with the cLPL).

[George_Labour]

Which is why I listed PPCs before pulse lasers. They simply fit the role better than the other options. About the only reason you'd have for taking the LPLs is to have weapons without a minimum range while still keeping to the Stone Rhino's two gauss, two beam weapon setup.

Plus I've yet to play any non quick strike games with mechs that use all these new fangled snub and light PPCs and therefore went with what I'm familiar with.

[StoneRhino]

True, but the 11.5 tons came from this one guy on the Solaris7 Armories who's been making a decent go at IS-tech equivalents of Clan Omnimechs. His version of the Hellbringer has 11.5 tons of armor, and it's A configuration is arguably MORE dangerous than the canon A, with a RAC/5 instead of an UAC/5. Given me a moment and I'll link you guys to his armory.

Edit: Here you go. It's for an alternate universe where the Clans don't exist, and the Inner Sphere develops Omnitech anyway. There's other differences, but that's the basics. That guy pretty much wins this thread when it comes to Mechs.

I would have to disagree. First off,  who really cares about the hellbringer when it comes to copying a clan design? Everyone knows that design is seriously flawed. To want to copy the most flawed omni out there just does not add up. That belongs more in a thread about what clan mech can the IS have the best chance of copying, not what most would want to copy. But, lets just say that you like the hellbringer , its the easiest design to improve upon and the one that is going to be easiest to pull off without messing with the tonnage. But, I think the idea that such a redesign wins the thread is beyond a bit of a reach.

[Coldstone]

I did an is Version of the Bloodasp. Was able to mimic most configs really well.

[Mastergunz]

Damn! That guys re-design of the Grand Titan is brutal! Ima steal that for an upcoming solaris tourney!  O0

-Gunz