Just got the box set... some questions

[-Ice]

For some reason, the postman decided to deliver my package in the afternoon, despite the past FIVE deliveries occurring between 8-9am!

Anyway, I got the box set today, and I open it all excited... and turned to disappointment.  The minis are, well, not quite what I expected.  Not only do they look sloppy, it seems like they've all been on a diet!!  Yep, even the Atlas didn't look too happy.  The Zeus, Awesome, Catapult, Jagermech and others are waaayyyy too skinny!  The Cicada is as tall as the Hunchback....

Now for full disclosure, this is my first time seeing BattleTech minis, but comparing them to the Thor mini, well, if the Thor mini RAWKS!  Can someone please confirm if I got a bad batch, or are the plastic minis supposed to look this way?  I hope the metal minis from IWM look more like the premium Thor mini?

Speaking of the premium minis, my Thor came assembled, but the Loki is in parts.... is this how it should come or has someone been messing with my box set before I got it?  The assembler was a little too liberal with the plastic glue as well...

Are there other premium plastic minis available?

At this point, I don't feel too happy with my box set purchase as now I'm thinking of buying the plastic minis but in metal form...

[Paul]

Can someone please confirm if I got a bad batch, or are the plastic minis supposed to look this way?

Sounds like you got the plastic minis that are typical of the BT box set.

I hope the metal minis from IWM look more like the premium Thor mini?

They generally do, yes.

Speaking of the premium minis, my Thor came assembled, but the Loki is in parts.... is this how it should come or has someone been messing with my box set before I got it?

Nope, that's how they're supposed to come.

Are there other premium plastic minis available?

Not currently. But the rumored Clan Box Set apparently has all its miniatures of the same quality as the Thor and Loki in the Box set. There is no street date for that box.

At this point, I don't feel too happy with my box set purchase as now I'm thinking of buying the plastic minis but in metal form...

Well, I'm not sure what to recommend there. The metal minis are usually of great quality. There's a mini's forum further down the list of boards where you can see a bunch. Also www.camospecs.com is largely made up of the metal ones.

I'm definitely sorry to hear you're less than happy with the Box Set.

Paul

[-Ice]

So what happened?  Was someone drunk when they made the mold for these minis?  The rest of the box set is perfect, very nice quality, then we get these plastic minis:



Notice the Grasshopper's base being significantly thinner than the rest.  And the Catapult... sigh...



Also a thin base on that second-from-left mech on the back row.

And looking at the box minis vs. the premium mini:




Can anyone give an insight as to why the box minis are so poor?

[sundayrobot]

Don't take the box set miniatures as an issue, but a challenge  O0

See what you can do with these figures :

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,15621.0.html

And I'm far from being the best painter or sculptor on earth  ;D

What I like also, is all the new concept arts Mechwarrior online and tactics gave us recently : you can also use them to improve your basic figures, with that nice modern look.

Take these figures for what they are, a way to directly make a step into battletech hobby ;)

[whiteshadowzo]

I was put off by the skinny anorexic minis at first but figured it was just to keep costs low and after seeing pictures on camospecs knew the iwm minis were going to look fantastic. Some of them have scaling issues, being too big or small but they are all much more detailed and generally more filled out than what is in the box set. So don't despair. And happy gaming

[Lorcan Nagle]

As I understand it, the molds for the "ready to play" minis in the box set were based on molds either IWM or Ral Partha did to make metal 'starter' lance packs.  In each case, the starter pack molds were taken from existing minis rather than their master molds.  Tis was done to make them all single cast pieces (or as close to as possible)

Now, when you make a mold for a miniature it shrinks a little.  So the starter lance pack minis are a little bit smaller than the main metal ones.  And so when they made plastic molds from the starter pack molds, they shrunk again.  And as a result, the plastics in the intro box are lacking when compared to the metal ones.

[Fallen_Raven]

First off, your Grasshopper looks fine. Its the Banshee that looks sick.

Secondly, the box set is supposed to be a cheap way to get into the game. Catalyst didn't want to charge newplayer$300 dollars for an intro product. And I don't want to pay for shipping for 24 pewter minis!

Third, it seems that your set was made of higher quality plastic than mine was. Does anyone know if they changed materials in the newrun?

[-Ice]

sundayrobot, I am amazed at what you have done with your minis, but I neither have the skill nor time to do that work.  The challenge is simply too much... the box minis make me disappointed especially as I got two minis that are amazingly detailed WITHOUT me having to do any work!

whiteshadowzo, I understand that costs have to be kept low, but surely these minis are very haphazardly done!  The base size and thickness alone are not consistent, the lines on the mechs are of varying sharpness... might as well have shipped with full-color cardboard counters that scream "QUALITY!!" plus the premium mech minis than to put these box minis in that contrast greatly with the rest of the product.

Lorcan, that single-cast idea makes sense, but surely someone must've quality-controlled these minis?

Guy1: Right, we are making this product to introduce new guys to our hobby... but we need to keep the costs low...
Guy2: Let's give them this half-assed attempts at mech minis since we can't be bothered to make proper plastic casts for these mechs
Guy1: That's a great idea!  Let's just put in some shiny books as well with all the pretty pictures and bright colors...
Guy2: Yeah, and let's throw in these awesome plastic minis as well!
Guy1: Hmmm... nice reading material, a couple of kick-ass Clan minis, and these warped plastic minis... Brilliant!!  This will sell like hotcakes!

Fallen_Raven, I'm not sure if I should be thankful that you're saying my minis look better than yours, or be scared that the older run was even worse!

[Paul]

I recognize your frustration: we all would like even better minis.
But I'm not entirely sure what kind of response you're looking for in this thread? They are what they are, hopefully the next box will have better ones.

Paul

[-Ice]

Yeah, sorry about that.  I posted hoping I just probably got a bad batch, but now people have confirmed that what I got is "normal."  I was disappointed with the minis and hoped someone made a mistake somewhere, but now that there is no mistake, well, to be honest I don't know what to do.

[Weirdo]

My best advice would be to read threads in the minis forums dealing with the plastics. They can give tips and techniques so that even beginners can make them look really good. Trust me, it's not hard at all.

[Paul]

Yeah, sorry about that.  I posted hoping I just probably got a bad batch, but now people have confirmed that what I got is "normal."  I was disappointed with the minis and hoped someone made a mistake somewhere, but now that there is no mistake, well, to be honest I don't know what to do.

:/

Wish I could say something that'll make it a better experience. I'm genuinely sorry that you're disappointed. I realize that doesn't count for a lot.

[Scotty]

The intro minis are dirt cheap, so you get what you pay for.  If anything, you get significantly more than what you pay for, all things considered.

The box set is, what, $40?  For that you get 26 minis, two maps to play on, the quick-start rules, an in-universe primer, and a little booklet with tips and tricks for painting your minis.

Even leaving aside everything else, 26 minis at $40 is ~$1.54 per mini.  The cheapest mini I can find on IWM are the Jenner and Javelin, for $7.60 each.  Those are the absolute cheapest 'Mechs available on IWM.  Most minis are upwards of $10.  Getting actual minis in the box is a bonus that Catalyst doesn't really have to extend.  I know that older (much older) versions of the box set came with cardstock counters and tokens, instead of minis at all.

This isn't a "suck it up" post, mind you.  It's just that the quality or quantity could easily be a lot worse.

[Sartris]

The box is $60 now with the HQ maps. I'm guessing the plastic clan mechs and inflation since the original Catalyst box release factor in there as well. 

As Lorcan mentioned, the molds for the plastics were based on the older metal starter sets (which are still available on IWM). Each of them comes with 4 of the box set mechs and is priced at $41.95 (except the recon set at $37.95). Going this way would run you about $250 plus shipping.

For reference, you can search on IWM for the lance packs

Assault Lance (Atlas, Cyclops, Hunchback, Vindicator)
Command Lance (Awesome, Dragon, Enforcer, Panther)
Fire Lance (Banshee, Catapult, Dervish, Trebuchet)
Recon Lance (Clint, Assassin, Cicada, Spider)
Striker Lance (Grasshopper, Hermes II, Jenner, Commando)
Support Lance (Zeus, Jagermech, Quickdraw, Whitworth)

[-Ice]

Thanks for the replies guys.  I'm starting to feel better regarding my purchase, with regards to the maps and other goodies...

My best advice would be to read threads in the minis forums dealing with the plastics. They can give tips and techniques so that even beginners can make them look really good. Trust me, it's not hard at all.

Well yeah, I can do some work on it and it'll probably look stunning.  Probably.  While the premium mechs are just sitting there laughing at the distorted box minis.  I think I saw the Loki dance a jig earlier, teasing the Catapult.  Point is, I didn't have to do anything to make the premium mechs look really  REALLY good.  I guess that's why they're called "premium" mechs eh?

Wish I could say something that'll make it a better experience. I'm genuinely sorry that you're disappointed. I realize that doesn't count for a lot.

Meh.  I guess my "big boy" phase kicked in after a while.  It's still "less" than what I expected --- I guess that's what I get from ordering the Mouse Guard intro box and the Pathfinder beginner box and Bestiary pawns.  But after looking at what else is in the box, I decide to open the maps to see what I get... and I am truly impressed with the quality of these maps.  Are the other map sets made like these as well (on cardboard/cardstock/whatever) or are they simply thin, flat paper maps?  Love the texture of it too... I wonder how resistant it is to spillage/liquid damage or rubbing?  Playing with my boys aged 9 and 3 you see...  O0

Anyway, while there's nothing you can say to make the plastic minis any better, I am glad that you have taken the time to respond to my posts anyway and in the manner that you have done.  I guess if I had received a hostile response, I would've simply returned my purchase, got my refund, and walked away from BattleTech.  For now, I am willing to give it a chance, perhaps buy some metal minis and see the quality of THOSE molds, and see if I can get/deliver enough fun to distract/ignore all the wonkyness of the box mechs.  So for your time and patience, thank you Paul, and thank you to the other posters as well.   8)

Sartris and Scotty, thanks for your posts.  I do agree that with metal minis, it would be significantly more expensive... I'm just complaining/moaning/whining about the "starved mechs" that are the box minis.  Oh well.  I think I am over it now, a bit.  And I just might take sundayrobot's advice and "work" on these mechs.  I assume the plastic bases that came with the premium minis are "standard bases" that is used with the metal minis?  At the very least I can probably  re-mount these box mechs on "proper" bases.

[Scotty]

I picked up a couple of the Sword and Dragon metal mini packs at my FLGS about a year ago, and a couple of them were pretty much identical to the box set minis, except a hundred times higher quality.  I have two metal Dragons (the Dragon pack had an extra one instead of a Hatamoto), a metal Enforcer, a metal Hunchback, and a metal Jenner for overlap between the packs and the box set, and the quality difference is just unreal.  The Enforcers you can tell are even from the same mold (or, from the same parent mold) and the quality (and ease of working with) is just head and shoulders above the rest.

Even if they're expensive, the metal minis are worth it.  Really, the box set minis are there to give you something to play with immediately.  If you find you like the game, they're like the appetizer that gets you ready for a high quality meal at a nice restaurant.

[Weirdo]

Well yeah, I can do some work on it and it'll probably look stunning.

If you need any help, feel free to ask me any questions, or any of the excellent painters in the minis forum!

[Samhain21]

If you find you like the game, they're like the appetizer that gets you ready for a high quality meal at a nice restaurant.

The Best part about the game is finding an awesome in-Universe unit, and painting your Mechs up in their colors...Standing proudly over your Company of 6th Lyran Regulars, hands on hips, and gloating over your babies...  ^-^ ... And then getting horrible rolls, and watching your babies "die"...  :'( BattleTech, she is a tough mistress...

And if I prefer modelling/painting them, does that mean I like playing with my food... To make it look more pretty?...

[Jayof9s]

might as well have shipped with full-color cardboard counters that scream "QUALITY!!" plus the premium mech minis than to put these box minis in that contrast greatly with the rest of the product.

My box set from the mid 90s did come with the full-color cardboard counters instead of minis. While they're very well done, I can safely say minis would have been more interesting. But they worked either way.  ;)

[Neko_Bijin]

When the box was $40, the quality of the miniatures seemed very reasonable.  Now that the box is $60, the quality of the miniatures seems much less reasonable, despite the improved maps and the addition of two Clan figures.

I agree that first-rate talent can make good figures out of them, but I've gone over to metal figures because they admit my middling talent well.

[worktroll]

Playing with my boys aged 9 and 3 you see...  O0

As someone who went through that stage some decades ago ;), this is one area where the plastic minis shine. You can easily let your boys play with them, secure in the knowledge they can't stab or choke themselves on broken-off parts the same way metal minis could. You can also let them do the painting, and keep them as "theirs", without the same fears and pangs you'd get with a metal mini at those ages.

Couple of general points:
- yes, the current run uses a slightly harder, darker and shinier plastic.
- it was mentioned, I believe at Origins and GenCon, that they're looking at getting new moulds made for future mini runs.

Cheers,

W.

[DarkSpade]

My box set had pictures of mechs on cardboard propped up with plastic stands.  It also came with paper maps that were the same and their backs were just blank hexes.   :-\

[Psycho]

For now, I am willing to give it a chance, perhaps buy some metal minis and see the quality of THOSE molds, and see if I can get/deliver enough fun to distract/ignore all the wonkyness of the box mechs. 

Casting quality can vary, though it is usually reasonable. You're far more likely to be dealing with mold lines than emaciated minis. The best advice I can offer is to check out what the minis look like online, ask around a bit (some are substantially more difficult to assemble than others) so you know what to expect, then order. The translation from 2-D drawing to 3-D mini can change your perception of the piece, so you may find yourself not as pleased with the mini of an illustration you loved, or loving a mini of a 'Mech you didn't think much of on paper.

[Charlie Tango]

- it was mentioned, I believe at Origins and GenCon, that they're looking at getting new moulds made for future mini runs.

That was confirmed by the Line Developer in the last BattleChat.

(-Ice, BattleChats are where the Line Developer for Battletech holds an IRC chat open to any and all members of the Battletech community and answers questions asked by the fans in the chat..  A transcript of the most recent one can be found here: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,22662.msg506002.html#msg506002)

[sundayrobot]

Not speaking of my own minis, but searching on google for plastic minis examples, you can see that people obtain pretty decent tabletop painting miniatures with the box set with (I think) a fast painting job :

http://gloryandcoin.wordpress.com/2008/01/31/painted-battletech/

For tabletop gaming, I think it's not bad at all  O0

[SteelRaven]

Keep two things in mind Ice,
1.) Many of the past BT boxes came with just cardboard counter, the plastic minis in the 3rd edition and City Tech had roughly the same quality
2.) GW starter box goes for $100. Not sure about you, but I'm already broke. I'll take what I can get for $60 and use the difference for metal Battlemech minis.

 

[-Ice]

At this point, I am now looking forward to buying the metal minis... they are comparable to the premium plastic minis, as Paul said, but anyone have any pics of a un-painted metal mini?  An unpainted Thor or Loki would be best for comparison with the plastic ones.

Weirdo, I probably won't be painting these minis for a good time yet.  Little knowledge of the BT world or gameplay means I don't know which color scheme I would be wanting, and I don't suspect that the box minis will look good if I have to repaint them a couple of times.

Jayof9s, I would think "premium" cardboard counters would've been more in-line with the rest of the quality stuff in the box rather than the starved-and-warped plastic minis.  But anyway, that point is moot now....

I agree that first-rate talent can make good figures out of them, but I've gone over to metal figures because they admit my middling talent well.

+1.  I'm not good with green stuff and barely passable with my painting skills (at least to my standards), so anything that would require less skill on my part is very much appreciated.  The less it relies on my talents, the better.

As someone who went through that stage some decades ago ;), this is one area where the plastic minis shine. You can easily let your boys play with them, secure in the knowledge they can't stab or choke themselves on broken-off parts the same way metal minis could. You can also let them do the painting, and keep them as "theirs", without the same fears and pangs you'd get with a metal mini at those ages.

Excellent idea worktroll!  I guess that's a good way of making use of them... they'll be "kiddie minis" while Daddy gets some "Daddy minis"... and a better excuse to start getting Clan mech minis for the "opposition"

[cavingjan]

The plastic ones also make good beater minis for ad hoc games on trips where you can pack and protect minis as well as you'd like. They aren't bad if you use army painter to prime\base coat them in on color, detail with gun metal, and then use a dip. Quick and fairly good looking and with not much time invested for 24 minis.

[Swiftfire]

I remember my first box set of Battletech minis from the 80s. The minis then weren't much different than now.

[Weirdo]

Weirdo, I probably won't be painting these minis for a good time yet.  Little knowledge of the BT world or gameplay means I don't know which color scheme I would be wanting...

Fair enough, and we'll be here when that time comes.

...and I don't suspect that the box minis will look good if I have to repaint them a couple of times.

When disappointed, soak and strip. Simple Green eraseth a multitude of sins. 8)

[worktroll]

Weirdo, I probably won't be painting these minis for a good time yet.  Little knowledge of the BT world or gameplay means I don't know which color scheme I would be wanting, and I don't suspect that the box minis will look good if I have to repaint them a couple of times.

-Ice,

Blowing my own trumpet here, but you may find the Army Report: 3025 series I made up some time back useful. They're shortish documents that give a brief background on each of the major Inner Sphere states as of 3025, both political and military. They also include some handy tables for generating representative forces that show the sort of equipment each favoured in the period, and details of 10 representative regiments (including paintschemes).

While they don't cover the more modern eras, they're a great stepping-stone from not knowing much, to being able to take advantage of the other free resources available:
The BattleTech Universe
The CamoSpecs website.

Hitting the BT history full-on can be a bit like drinking from a firehose, so a simpler, more structured intro can be useful.

Cheers,

W.

[Gryphon]

Could be worse really. As much as i like my two box sets enough I will maybe buy a third, I had...issues with my first box set.

Specifically, no Clint, No Atlas, the Vindicators arm was snapped clan off and somewhat disfigured, and at least one other mech, I can't recall which off the top of my head, had its right arm stunted during molding. I loved the rest of the box, but having one in six of the minis missing of flawed was...not inspiring really.

I still recommend the box, but i also feel that the minis you get with it are simply for starting out, and should be replaced as soon as you possibly can really. And I hear the newest boxes have better maps, and there is a chance at better moldings for the minis too. But I really would like to just buy mini sets too.

Mainly because I have to cry myself to sleep over my missing Atlas...  :'(

[worktroll]

Email the Catalyst support address (which I cant' think of at this point in time) - they'll mail you a replacement. I got my missing Cicada that way.

W.

[LastChanceCav]

There is also a thread in this forum with links to get your box set minis replaced --> http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,16789.0.html

When I orginally got my box set it had three Banshees and no Hunchback or Awesome. Catalyst was quick to fix the problem, and now I have 26 plastic minis! Too bad it wasn't the Awesome I got three of.  ;) I got the original box set and was reasonably happy, I was more disappointed with the maps quality than the minis. If I'd had the option I would have spend the extra money for better mechs and the extra clan minis. At least I can get the higher quality maps and more variety through the Hex Packs.

Cheers,
LCC

[RedMarauder]

I remember that being the very same grey/metallic plastic they used on my older boxed set minis i bought waaaay back in '92...was that 2nd or 3rd edition?  In any case, those miniatures SUCKED, SUCKED, SUCKED :'(.  The Thunderbolt had a hole in it's back from the screw up of the molding, the Battlemaster had one in it's chest I had to fill in, the Warhammer's left had a tendency to fall off because the peg to put it on was way too short.  There were 24 of them and they included the Unseen.

I also bought the Clan Assault Mech boxed set (Set of 4) and I have to say they were even worse in their own way.  They were blue plastic and, although the sculpts were excellent, they tended to be VERY fragile, like glass really.  I ended up breaking off the Warhawk's long gun barrels, both arms of my Dire Wolf broke of and I had to refind and then glue them back on at the elbow, which is nearly paper thin plastic.  The other two minis were relatively unscarred, but when you pay around $30 in 1997 for four minis that are supposed to be high quality, and they break like that, you get very upset and it even prompted me to write FASA a letter expressing my dissatisfaction. 

In any case, you pay $60 for the set and you get 26 minis plus all that other stuff.  At least they aren't fragile crap like the old FASA lance sets were and they should hold up to even a drop or two on hard concrete floors, my 24 help up nicely.

[Sunder Prime]

I look at it this way.  The Box set is $60 and comes with some nice stuff for new players, introductory rules and etc.  The two high quality map boards alone are worth over half of the price as the other hex packs cost $25 for one board.  So figure $40 for the maps alone, $7.50 each for the 2 clan mechs and $5 for the booklets and the other minis are free.  Initially these "free minis" were going to be my daughter's mechs, but I have since upgraded her company to metal minis.  Now they are going to be painted up as honorable enemies for my daughter to play against.  I understand your disappointment, since I felt the same way at first, but compared to other starter sets I have seen it really is a pretty good deal. 

[Wereferret]

If you want to see some of the potential behind the grey plastic, here's a reasonable outcome you could expect with a little painting effort.  These are the very first minis I've *ever* painted, Battletech's intro box set was the first game that's ever demanded such talents from me.  There was no cleaning up sprue or erasing mold lines or any other such nonsense.  I did get the little decal kits from Fighting Pirannha, but these are the same mechs that are in your box.  These were painted up to go along with the 'Sword and Dragon' Starterbook and Campaign, which I *highly* recommend if you want a time period and some missions to go along with your intro mechs and get you oriented.  It also has *just* enough extra mechs required for the full TO&E to purchase from Iron Wind Metals to get your feet wet wet their metal line and see if the quality is up to your standard.  Good luck and have fun with the game!












 

[Lysenko]

Wereferret, great job on those. :)

[SteelRaven]

Wow, awesome job Wereferret! You give me something to aim for when I finally pony up the cash for my own starter box

[Hellraiser]

At this point, I don't feel too happy with my box set purchase as now I'm thinking of buying the plastic minis but in metal form... 

Don't deny yourself metal but IMHO, don't be upset at the plastic mechs.

They are still a SCREAMING good deal for what you paid.

There is SO much stuff in that box that the mini's are almost an afterthought or if you turn it around, $6 for the Premiums & $2 for the Originals means all your game material was the free part.

I can fully tell you that they are not the best quality but they will be great for filling out your armies.
Get Metal, by all means, but focus on those minis that you don't already have in plastic & eventually use the plastic as a way to bulk up your armies w/ extras of the most common mechs in universe.

I have been playing battletech since the mid-80's and I still picked up the boxed set for no other reason that to use those 26 minis as "extras" to fill out my TO&E rosters of painted house factions.

And really, seeing a DC Metal Jenner & DC Plastic Jenner side by side, the quality while off, isn't so bad as to make you just hate it, at least IMHO it isn't.

[willydstyle]

I remember my first box set of Battletech minis from the 80s. The minis then weren't much different than now.

Which is the root of the problem.  I'm not gonna lie to you Ice, if you're used to a more modern, high quality aesthetic from the BT line of minis, metal included, you're going to be disappointed with at least 80% of the sculpts.

The minis are a huge barrier to getting new players into the game.

[Swiftfire]

Battletech is not the only game with mini issues.

I play Starfleet Battles as well and the minis for that game are not anything to write home about. The people that use them put a lot of love into them and can make something great out of a less than stellar product. The new minis from Mongoose go a long way to change that. I've bought some of the minis, but they are actually a bit too large for my tastes.

The Battletech minis, while not perfect, do provide a good balance of size, quality, and price.

[Ice_Trey]

I think part of the issue that people have from buying the introbox is a subconscious misconception: They assume that the contents of the box outside of the minis are freebies, like ketchup packets from a restaurant.

The truth is, most Battletech boxed sets in the past came with no minis at all (Instead coming with cardboard standies), rulebooks were mostly in black and white, and said contents managed to still have roughly the same price point as the box we have now, in spite of the cost of living having shifted dramatically since the 80s and 90s.

Had those plastic minis been made in high quality plastic, the box would probably have doubled in price.

That said, I don't think it would have been worth doing, anyway. Most of the box set contents are old designs from the 80s that aren't going to wow new players who are expecting Mechwarrior Online designs or something looking like out of the Armored Core series. Likewise, the sculpts for most of these 'mechs in pewter form are pretty stagnant, too.

Instead, Ice, Consider that these 'mechs are soft plastic, therefore very easy to cut and repose when compared to hard pewter.

[greasyspoon]

Just go my box set last week.  The main mechs are ok quality, much like my old box set from the 80's.  The odd thing was my premium mechs were in pieces, not on a spure just parts in a bag.  Not a big deal to me, as I am into scale modeling it just take a few minutes to put together.  Just need make sure I have all my parts though.

Teaching my son is quite fun, but the barrage of questions is quite challenging.   

later,

[martian]

The odd thing was my premium mechs were in pieces, not on a spure just parts in a bag.

Both? Usually Summoner comes assembled while Hellbringer comes in pieces.

[Lysenko]

I got two boxed sets, one for me and the other for my daughter. Both of hers were unassembled; my summoner was together.