Rule selection and 3025-3050 era products

[-Ice]

Hey guys!

After a long time, I am looking at my Starter Box again and hoping to be able to take it out and get more gaming goodness out of it.  When I last tried playing with my sons, I guess they were too young for it at the time.  My eldest is now 11 and has been playing a little bit of Warhammer 40K and has shown a good grasp of the rules so I am hoping we can play BattleTech as well.  My youngest is now 5 and enjoys dice rolling and can tell numbers/pips so he can help out as well.  My boys also play with other kids their age so if I can get this going, I hope to introduce this game to 2-3 other kids as well.

However, as the target audience is still young, the full rules (Total Warfare) is out of the question, at least I hope just for the near future.  Drooling over an AC20 and imagining the carnage it could wreak or sniping at enemy mechs with an ER PPC is something I hope they can appreciate later on, but I just can't drown them in all the rules.  Because of this, I am looking at either Quick Start Rules or BattleForce rules.  However, both rules have aspects missing which makes it difficult for me to decide which one to go with.

QSR - this rule set looks great and an AC 20 is an AC 20 with 20 points of damage, the record sheet is very simple and easy to use, and the game should speed up a bit.  However, it does not model the internal structure and critical hits.  Not a big deal but I kinda liked the idea of a torso still being intact and armor still being present but have the possibility of a critical hit that takes out a weapon system.  It's a small complication to the rules that I feel would be a great addition --- kinda like critical hits on D&D systems.  Crit the head, kill the pilot, and you got a great salvage opportunity!

BattleForce - being able to command lances easily is a very good cool thing.  Using the QSR, I'd imagine starting each player with one mech and then moving on to two mechs per player, so a lance would be two players so as not to overload the young mind.  Being able to manage 4 mechs would obviously be very awesome for a young player.  My problem with this is that the "yummyness" of individual weapons gets kinda fuzzed out as each gets funneled into S/M/L ranges.  Another problem is that the lance moves as one and is penalized if any of their member suffers a leg hit.  Is there any problem of using BattleForce rules but still treating each mech as an individual and can move separate from its other lance-mates?

Please note that I've only skimmed BattleForce and not played it and only have a few QSR games experience so I could be wrong on both.  Thoughts on these are appreciated.  Oh, and I've noticed a new product called "Alpha Strike" but haven't looked at that yet so no clue.  Anyway, does anyone have any suggestions or ideas for dealing with my issues above?  I think if the QSR had implemented the internal structure of the mech, that'll be easier for me to chose.



Second issue for this thread would be which products to buy for the era I want to play in.  I'd like to start a few games off at 3025 era and then bring in the clans later on.  I'm thinking of kinda recreating my MechWarrior and MechCommander game experiences -- piloting an IS mech, downing a Clan mech, then fixing that and using Clan mechs to fight the Clans.  For this, I'm going to borrow from MechCommander and so once the kids have a handle on the rules, I'll form them into a mercenary company and they'll have to fight for their goodies.  While a battle-to-the-death can be exciting, I'd like to throw in the concept of having to conserve resources due to low C-Bill treasury or some such factor.

To do this, I know I need the FM: Mercenaries Revised book and maybe the Sword and Dragon book and perhaps use the Warchest system.  Tracking armor tonnage and cost would probably require me to have Excel spreadsheets so I'll just use the FM: Mercs to determine their startup condition then move to the Warchest system to make things easier.  However, I would like to raise the "newbie" flag once again and say that I've no experience with the Warchest system.  I do know about the FM: Merc system as I used it years ago hoping to tie it with my MegaMek games and that is why I know I would probably need an Excel spreadsheet!  While it may be complicated and would be just easier to do "pickup fights," I would like to add this so that not only will losing a mech hurt their firepower level, it'll hurt their wallets as well.  I know my son and his friends play online games like World of Tanks so they are familiar with having to pay for "repair costs."

Any suggestions for this aspect of gaming?

Now on the aspect of TRO selection.  I know there used to be an old TRO 3025 but I can't seem to find it now.  Is it now TRO 3039?  I'm guessing I'll just need that and TRO 3050 and maybe 3055, right?

While the intro set has a brief overview of the Inner Sphere, how can I get a better insight into the battles of the 3025-3050 era?  Being able to put context into the contracts the players go on would be a very nice way to further immerse them into the BattleTech universe but I only know of the broad strokes myself.  I think there was an old book that was always recommended, Objective Raids and a few others.  I think this would give me ideas of what to send the players into.  Any more suggestions?

Finally, the fiction.  I'd like to start at the beginning.... or maybe just a few years before Clan invasion and well into the Clan wars.  I am guessing any books that would be recommended would've been out-of-print for ages?  Does BattleCorps have any PDFs?  I'd really prefer physical books but I'll take PDFs if push comes to shove.



Anyway, I'll end here for now as the post has gotten quite lengthy.  Thanks in advance for any help! 

PS. My son has been playing World of Tanks for a while now and we've played MechWarrior Online before and he's just re-installed it to have a go and he is enjoying it.  However, that game is more twitch-shooting --- like first-person-shooters but with mechs.... I'd like him to learn about the tactics involved in turn-based gaming and anything to lessen his time in front of a computer would be a plus.

[Lorcan Nagle]

Alpha Strike is basically BattleForce rules played at BattleTech scale, with the default being minis on terrain rather than maps (though the option formaps does exist)

[-Ice]

BattleForce rules played at BattleTech scale

Not sure what you mean by that.... do you mean each mech is still one unit (term definition of unit/element/whatever still confuses me) and can move independent of the other units in the lance?  Are the weapons still fudged/combined into S/M/L ranges like BattleForce or are they still "named" like in the QSR?

No interest or resources to make tabletop terrain like WH40K so "minis on terrain" is an awesome idea but not possible for me at the moment.  We'll be playing on maps for a good while.

[Sartris]

do you mean each mech is still one unit (term definition of unit/element/whatever still confuses me) and can move independent of the other units in the lance?

Yeah, each mech / vehicle / battle armor squad / infantry platoon represents itself.

In Battletech, one unit / element is generally 1 Mech, 1 Vehicle, 1 Aerospace Fighter, 1 Battle Armor Squad, or One Infantry Platoon.
 

Are the weapons still fudged/combined into S/M/L ranges like BattleForce

Yes

[Papabees]

What about using the QSR with the Battleforce Crit chart?

[mbear]

I don't know if this will help, but there are several threads about introducing kids to the game. They may help.

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,38111.0.html

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,36861.msg855281.html#msg855281

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,36208.0.html

For what it's worth, the Quick Start Rules are a nice place to start. Your players get all the basics of fire and movement down, and then you can introduce another level of detail. "Hey Billy, you remember how you wanted to have just one more shot a Josh that time? Good news! It turns out that there's internal structure and now you can get that extra shot!"

I haven't used the Warchest system enough to comment on it. Personally I found the FM:Mercs stuff perfectly adequate for accounting purposes. In fact I've used a similar system where we just tracked armor points we salvaged and so on. Didn't even pay for materials, just Techs and their time.

Edit: Fixed broken URLs.

[Wikkid]

See if you can get hold of the situation '1st edition' rules set. Just add weapons as required.
'1st edition' only covers small, medium and large lasrs, PPC, LRM 5-20, SRM 2-6, AC5,mg and flame...

[-Ice]

Well, I **WILL** introduce the game to the kids... I'm really looking for suggestions on products to start off with and ruleset to use.

I think the BattleForce system is just too vague so I'm going with the QSR.  If Alpha Strike is like BattleForce, can I safely put it out of my options?  I guess I'd just better buy the damn thing and take a look.

Let me put my other questions clearly so that it's easier to answer:

1.  What TROs to get for the 3025-3050 era?  Is TRO 3039 now the only TRO to deal with the pre-clan era?  Is TRO 3050 enough for the Clans?  What does TRO 3055 have that is missing from TRO 3050?

Basically, I know there was the old TRO 3025 and I am sure you older members know how many MORE products/TROs came out that dealt with the pre-Clan era, but I am looking for the best product to buy today that deals with that period.  Looking at this page, it seems like there's nothing now that is pre-Clan except TRO 3039.  Is that a good product to buy or is an older TRO version better?

2.  Are there any other systems that allow/deal with continuity between campaigns?  I know there's the Warchest system and the FM: Mercs system, but has any other system come out as well?

3.  What books are available to give us scenarios to play in the 3025-3050 era?

4.  Fiction - again, what books deal with the 3025-3050 era?  I know that BT lore starts around Star League, but I want to fast-forward to just around the time the Clans arrive, and maybe a few years prior.

5.  What's the best way to buy BT products?  I seem to be having problems sourcing BT items here in the UK, what stores carry BT stuff has limited selection.  I know there is BattleCorps or DriveThruRPG but I prefer having physical copies so even if I bought the PDFs, I'd still print them out so I'd just rather buy the hardcopies.



The game I want to run would be something like this --- the players are members of their own mercenary unit and would take contracts, do missions, and improve both their arsenal of mechs as well as the skills of their mech pilots.  We would keep track of damage, salvage, and inventory to a certain degree.  I envision this as kinda like MechCommander, but only tabletop.  So I'm looking around for a system that not only deals with prices/cost for armor, missiles, ammo, etc. but also deals with levelling up mech pilots and technicians as well.

[Lorcan Nagle]

I think the BattleForce system is just too vague so I'm going with the QSR.  If Alpha Strike is like BattleForce, can I safely put it out of my options?  I guess I'd just better buy the damn thing and take a look.

If you don't like the BattleFore QSR, you probably won't like Alpha Strike.  If you do want to sample it, the PDF is only $15, which is a smaller hit to the wallet than buying the print book

1.  What TROs to get for the 3025-3050 era?  Is TRO 3039 now the only TRO to deal with the pre-clan era?  Is TRO 3050 enough for the Clans?  What does TRO 3055 have that is missing from TRO 3050?

3039 is the go-to for Succession Wars designs.  It replaces TRO: 3025 and 3026, and includes both the unseen (without artwork) and the downgraded Star League designs from the 90s reprints of 3025.  IIRC the Record Sheets 3039 Unabridged PDF doesn't contain the unseen sheets as they're in RS: 3085 Project Phoenix.

3050 is more or less a straight reprint of the FASA-era TRO 3050, less the unseen.  The mechs, vehicles and aerospace fighters from TRO: 2750 have been added.  It contains upgrades to the Inner Sphere mechs in TRO: 3039 and the 16 Clan OmniMechs.

3055 contains the first generation of Inner Sphere mechs designed to fight the Clans, plus Clan second-line designs and a couple of OmniMechs, and Clan OmniFighters for Aerospace combat.  With it and 3050, you have a good overview of the Clan Invasion period and the years immediately thereafter.

2.  Are there any other systems that allow/deal with continuity between campaigns?  I know there's the Warchest system and the FM: Mercs system, but has any other system come out as well?

There's a campaign system in Strategic operations, but it's bookkeeping heavy.  It adds a lot of versimilitude (you need to make maintenance rolls, with failures making equipment break down, for example), but it's a lot of hard work.

3.  What books are available to give us scenarios to play in the 3025-3050 era?

The only print book at the moment is Starterbook: Sword and Dragon.  It uses the warchest system to run two narrative campaigns - one player runs The Fox's Teeth, the other Sorenson's Sabres.  The first player runs a series of missions until they reach a turning point one, with the other running the opponents.  Then you swap and the other side runs missions with his unit.  At certain turning points, the two units meet and fight.

In PDF format there's a number of Turning points books.  While they're designed to either present a Warchest campaign or plug into one, you can easily run them as solo games.  The 3025-era ones are:
Hitsorical Turning Points: Galtor
Hitsorical Turning Points: Mallory's World
Hitsorical Turning Points: Misery
Operational Truning Points: Death to Mercenaries! (this one lets you run the Dragoons/Kurita feud from the 4th Succession War)

4.  Fiction - again, what books deal with the 3025-3050 era?  I know that BT lore starts around Star League, but I want to fast-forward to just around the time the Clans arrive, and maybe a few years prior.

The following novels coverthe Succession Wars period, but are long out of print.  BattleCorps had many of them as PDFs, but they've been taken down due to rights issues.  There's also loads of BattleCorps fiction set in the timeframe

The Sword and the Dagger

Decision at Thunder Rift
Mercenary's Star
The Price of Glory

Warrior: En Garde
Warrior: Riposte
Warrior: Coupe

Wolves on the Border
Heir to the Dragon

The Blood of Kerensky Trilogy is the first Clan invasion trilogy:
Lethal Heritage
Blood Legacy
Lost Destiny

I'd recommend picking up the BattleCorps anthologies to get some good fiction that covers all timelines.  The ones that aren't in print are availible as ebooks:
The Corps
First Strike
Weapons Free
Fire For Effect

5.  What's the best way to buy BT products?  I seem to be having problems sourcing BT items here in the UK, what stores carry BT stuff has limited selection.  I know there is BattleCorps or DriveThruRPG but I prefer having physical copies so even if I bought the PDFs, I'd still print them out so I'd just rather buy the hardcopies.

BattleShop does international shipping, but it can be expensive.  If your LGS is any use, they can order BattleTech products via Esvedium Games.  Ral Partha Eruope have a small selection of older books they're selling cheap.  Beside that, there's always Amazon or eBay.

The game I want to run would be something like this --- the players are members of their own mercenary unit and would take contracts, do missions, and improve both their arsenal of mechs as well as the skills of their mech pilots.  We would keep track of damage, salvage, and inventory to a certain degree.  I envision this as kinda like MechCommander, but only tabletop.  So I'm looking around for a system that not only deals with prices/cost for armor, missiles, ammo, etc. but also deals with levelling up mech pilots and technicians as well.

Warchest simplifies the logistics, but does cover levelling up.  The FM: Mercs or StratOps systems willlet you get into the nitty gritty, but it's a hell of alot of paperwork, especially for kids.

[(SMD)MadCow]

TRO 3039 is great, it has a load of mechs and vehicles from downgraded SL equipment to the unseen to the new mechs for that era (wolf hound, cataphract, etc) all with no advanced tech, basic only.

[-Ice]

Thanks for the info, Lorcan.  LOL... feels weird calling you that.

Anyway, I'd like to give Alpha Strike a fair reading befor passing judgement.  I have the QSR from the box set and the BattleForce rules from Strategic Ops so might as well give Alpha Strike a place on my bookshelf.  As for the campaign system in Strategic Ops, I totally forgot about that.  I'll give the book a quick scan again.

Many thanks for the info regarding TRO 3039.  Am I correct in saying that TRO 3039 is now the only TRO that covers pre-clan mechs?  I think I'll lock in TROs 3039, 3050 (upgrade), and 3055 on my to-buy list, but what about TRO 3060?

With regards to the Starterbook, I don't really plan to have my players fight each other.  I plan to play this with a bit of RPG aspects, so they will always handle their own mechs while I handle the opposing forces.  I wonder what the "turning point" books are though?  Are they similar to the Starterbooks?

Same story for the book-keeping.  I can use an Excel spreadsheet if I need to, but obviously the simpler the system, the better.  However, I don't want it to be too simple!  Similar dilemma with the rules system.  Do I want a really quick but fudgy system like BattleForce/Alpha Strike?  Or do I want a bit more detail and savor the goodness of an AC20 or the range of an ER PPC?  Hitting the sweet spot is an art!  Anyway, I'll handle most of the book-keeping and that'll hopefully allow the players to concentrate more on their mechs, their pilots, and the fun.

As for the novels, I did suspect that the ones I want would be OOP.  That sucks... I guess I just entered this too late.  I'll be on the lookout for these though.

[Lorcan Nagle]

Thanks for the info, Lorcan.  LOL... feels weird calling you that.

No problem - it's my name!

Anyway, I'd like to give Alpha Strike a fair reading befor passing judgement.  I have the QSR from the box set and the BattleForce rules from Strategic Ops so might as well give Alpha Strike a place on my bookshelf.  As for the campaign system in Strategic Ops, I totally forgot about that.  I'll give the book a quick scan again.

I really like Alpha Strike, I think it keeps the feel of BattleTech while giving it a faster moving sense along the lines of Warmachine.  The removal of granularity is a stickler for a lot of people.

Many thanks for the info regarding TRO 3039.  Am I correct in saying that TRO 3039 is now the only TRO that covers pre-clan mechs?  I think I'll lock in TROs 3039, 3050 (upgrade), and 3055 on my to-buy list, but what about TRO 3060?

There's a handful of pre-clan era mechs in other TROs, notably the Merlin in TRO:3058 (which also covers Inner Sphere upgrades to combat vehicles), and some Age of War designs in TRO:3075.  3060's designs are almost all from the post-clan era, though it does include Clan combat vehicles (IIRC no Clan vehicle units served in the initial invasion) and some older Clan BattleMechs which either saw very limited deployment in the Inner Sphere or never made it out of the Homeworlds.

With regards to the Starterbook, I don't really plan to have my players fight each other.  I plan to play this with a bit of RPG aspects, so they will always handle their own mechs while I handle the opposing forces.  I wonder what the "turning point" books are though?  Are they similar to the Starterbooks?

The operational Turning points books are basically campaigns along the lines of the Starterbooks, but with one player faction.  OTP: Death to Mercenaries might be a good one to start out with, and it's only $10 for the PDF.  You could make a larger campaign by also downloading HTP: Misery.

Same story for the book-keeping.  I can use an Excel spreadsheet if I need to, but obviously the simpler the system, the better.  However, I don't want it to be too simple!  Similar dilemma with the rules system.  Do I want a really quick but fudgy system like BattleForce/Alpha Strike?  Or do I want a bit more detail and savor the goodness of an AC20 or the range of an ER PPC?  Hitting the sweet spot is an art!  Anyway, I'll handle most of the book-keeping and that'll hopefully allow the players to concentrate more on their mechs, their pilots, and the fun.

Warchest abstracts almost everything.  You spend points to go on a mission, and get points back for achieving objectives (with bonus points for taking options which make the mission more difficult).  You can then spend the points on repairs, refits and purchasing new units.

As for the novels, I did suspect that the ones I want would be OOP.  That sucks... I guess I just entered this too late.  I'll be on the lookout for these though.

They do show up quite often on eBay and in second-hand book stores, so you might get lucky.  I'd prioritise getting Wolves on the Border and Heir to the Dragon - to my mind they're two of the best BT novels full stop.

[Scotty]

Just popping in to throw my two cents into the ring.  Played a game of Alpha Strike at the game shop last weekend, company size on each side.  Sword of Light versus Third Crucis Lancers.  The whole game took around three hours, and ended with seven 'Mechs still standing.  All involved had a blast, and the rules were simultaneously intuitive and engaging.  If you're looking for a 'gateway drug' style BattleTech experience, then by God Alpha Strike is the way to do it.

[-Ice]

Ah, is that your real name?  I guess I was more used to nenechan.  ;D

I did get the impression that Alpha Strike was at least decent, and I am looking for ways to speed up the game, but then again I need to find that fine line between playing two or three games in an afternoon with the included book-keeping vs. playing just one game for an entire day.  #P

Re: TRO 3060 -- I know I am interested in a few Clan mechs, but no idea if they are all in TRO 3050/3055.  My only interest in vehicles is for support for the player's side, maybe guarding a depot or something or be an objective they have to guard or capture.  Aside from that, they will make up a good chunk of the opposing force --- I plan to out-BV the players, but maybe have 80% of that BV on mechs and the rest on vehicles.  I only plan to play with Mechs and vehicles to start with, maybe Elementals later on, but will only include aerospace for "completion sake" of a merc unit.  I guess I'll stick with the three TROs for now and cross 3060 if/when we get there.

As for the warchest, I wonder if there's a way to integrate it with the FM:Mercs system or to go from one system to the next?  I can't remember if the FM:Mercs system allowed for upgrading pilots B and G skills but I know it detailed the support system (techs and astechs) needed by a merc unit so I would still need to refer to FM:Mercs even if we used warchest for the most part.

Looking around I noticed a book called Total Chaos.  Any thoughts on this?

Scotty, I do realize the main strength of Alpha Strike/BattleForce is playing games with lots and lots of units, but for the meantime, my players won't be able to handle that many.  I know I can't!!  So we'll be playing with 2-6 mechs (1-2 per player) against a force of similar BV and if I'm doing just this much units, I might as well go for a little more detail/granularity (new word for me!) and use the QSR.  Then I think we are at a middle ground.  We can increase unit sizes and simplify with AS/BF or increase detail and complexity with TW rules.  I do wonder how many maps was used for the battle you mentioned?  Or did you play on terrain?

[Scotty]

We played on terrain, 4 feet by 6 feet, which I think translates to right around a 24 x 36 hex fight if you're transitioning (two inches per hex).  I'm reasonably certain even without having played a game of Alpha Strike on hexmaps that it just feels better miniatures rules.  Plus then you can have battlefields as big as you want if you're limited on maps (like I am).  Suddenly books are hills and the whole table is the battlefield.

That said, small scale games you're probably better off with the granularity of regular BattleTech rules.  I'd seriously consider switching to Alpha Strike if you ever go above 12 'Mechs/vehicles on the field at a given time; that seems like a good cutoff for it, maybe a little higher.  Just the sheer amount of stuff you need to keep track of for each and every 'Mech on the BT scale can be pretty daunting if the game gets above a few units (unless MegaMek, but if you have a group I wouldn't use that for them).

Of course, far be it from me to demand you use one format or the other.  What works for your table works for your table!

[Lorcan Nagle]

Ah, is that your real name?  I guess I was more used to nenechan.  ;D

Yeah, I go by my real name just about everywhere online nowadays, and changed it here during the last big forum crash

I did get the impression that Alpha Strike was at least decent, and I am looking for ways to speed up the game, but then again I need to find that fine line between playing two or three games in an afternoon with the included book-keeping vs. playing just one game for an entire day.  #P

It's definitely worth checking out.  There's a couple of free previews on the BattleShop as well, now that I think of it.

Re: TRO 3060 -- I know I am interested in a few Clan mechs, but no idea if they are all in TRO 3050/3055.  My only interest in vehicles is for support for the player's side, maybe guarding a depot or something or be an objective they have to guard or capture.  Aside from that, they will make up a good chunk of the opposing force --- I plan to out-BV the players, but maybe have 80% of that BV on mechs and the rest on vehicles.  I only plan to play with Mechs and vehicles to start with, maybe Elementals later on, but will only include aerospace for "completion sake" of a merc unit.  I guess I'll stick with the three TROs for now and cross 3060 if/when we get there.

3050 and 3055 cover roughly 95% of the mechs seen in the Invading Clan forces.  In terms of vehicles, I don't think any Invading Clans brought them to the Inner Sphere until the mid-late 3060s.  But whatever you want to do on your table goes, of course.

As for the warchest, I wonder if there's a way to integrate it with the FM:Mercs system or to go from one system to the next?  I can't remember if the FM:Mercs system allowed for upgrading pilots B and G skills but I know it detailed the support system (techs and astechs) needed by a merc unit so I would still need to refer to FM:Mercs even if we used warchest for the most part.

There's a conversion ratio between warchest points and C-bills to allow you to swap between the two.  And it wouldn't be hard to mix in the skill improvement rules from Total Warfare.

Looking around I noticed a book called Total Chaos.  Any thoughts on this?

It's a massive Warchest campaign book to allow your players to run through the Jihad.  Possibly worth it to mine ideas from, but the majority of the tracks would need some work to be useful.

[-Ice]

Thanks for the info Scotty!  I do have a big MDF board at home which I initially hoped to play WH40K on but the thing is just too big to be set up easily.  While "books for buildings" should be easy, I wonder how you do forests and hills and mountains or canyons and rivers?

As for the suggestion of Alpha Strike for 12 mechs or greater, I'm sure we won't be crossing that threshold for a good while!

Lorcan, I seem to have lost access to my BattleShop account.  I see that I mentioned on these forums that I got access to it a few years ago, but I can't seem to remember the proper email/nickname I used.  :(  Grr! 

As for the TRO suggestions, well, I have an idea of what I want to do, but obviously don't know which books to get to be able to do it... hence this thread!

And it wouldn't be hard to mix in the skill improvement rules from Total Warfare.

Are there such rules?  Dammit, I seem to have forgotten a lot more than I thought I had!!  A quick scan and I can't seem to find it though... page ref pls?

As for the warchest system --- is there a book that presents the whole thing by itself?  Or is it scattered everywhere?  At the moment, I'm thinking of generating contracts via FM:Mercs then converting the values to warchest and then using that system from that point onwards.... or at least until I can review the skill improvement rules from TW!

EDIT: I know there are repair/refit rules in Strategic Ops and if I allow players to make their own variants of mechs (take existing chassis and modify weapon loadouts), I'm alright with Strategic Ops, right?  What is in Tech Manual that I would need?  I don't plan on making them build anything NEW, just to customize their favorite chassis.  IIRC replacing/upgrading the engine of a mech was the only thing not allowed --- from what I understood, the core was somehow essential to the internal structure so if the player wanted something with more speed, he'd have to select a chassis with the engine type/rating he wanted.

[Scotty]

Skill improvement in Total Warfare is near the end of the book, in the balancing and creating scenarios section.  It's pretty rudimentary and basic, amounting to "one experience for playing, one experience for MVP" and a few basic improvement costs.  It's good if you're playing a really casual campaign, but for anything more involved you can do better.

For woods and other terrain, I designate a wash cloth or small towel, or even a napkin or placement to be the terrain feature.  Alpha Strike is simple enough that what the terrain *looks* like is totally up to you, as long as everybody at the table knows what it is, and you can get a good idea of LOS.

[(SMD)MadCow]

I would highly suggest the 3058 over the 3060 TRO - the 3060 starts introducing designs that branch out into things like stealth armor, MRMs, and light gauss rifles, if you don't feel like dealing with those new toys yet. The 3058 also has the first of the inner sphere Omni mechs and a bunch of really solid designs.

[Scotty]

Alternately, TRO: 3067 is also a fantastic book, and contains most of the 'Mechs your players might recognize from MechWarrior 4.

[(SMD)MadCow]

To be fair, I havent met a TRO that I didnt buy.

[mbear]

Skill improvement in Total Warfare is near the end of the book, in the balancing and creating scenarios section.  It's pretty rudimentary and basic, amounting to "one experience for playing, one experience for MVP" and a few basic improvement costs.  It's good if you're playing a really casual campaign, but for anything more involved you can do better.

For woods and other terrain, I designate a wash cloth or small towel, or even a napkin or placement to be the terrain feature.  Alpha Strike is simple enough that what the terrain *looks* like is totally up to you, as long as everybody at the table knows what it is, and you can get a good idea of LOS.

The TW system is probably going to be good enough for your kids to get started. Then you can build on that later.

For terrain couldn't you just cut out some construction paper? Dark green == heavy woods, light green == light woods, light blue == depth 1 water, dark blue == depth two water.

[-Ice]

MadCow, thanks for the 3058 suggestion.  No idea how I missed that.

mbear, cool idea on the terrain!

Scotty, still can't find the skill improvement stuff on TW.  As for TRO 3067, well, **I** played MW4 but none of my "target audience" has!  Hehehe....

Quick question about the Warchest system --- What's the best book to buy that presents a complete picture of this system?  I dug up an old copy of CAT35600 Chaos Campaign (Warchest point system campaign framework) and it lists skill advancement cost of 10 for Gunnery and 8 for Piloting skills but Total Chaos lists 200 for Gunnery and 150 for Piloting... huh?  This quickly put me off buying anything else until I establish what I need for the Warchest system.  How many "flavors" are there?  Which one is used primarily?  I don't want to start off with one thing then buy a supplement and find out it's using another system/variant.  I don't want to go forward with this "Jihad era warchest" then buy a pre-clan book then find out that there's a "succesion wars era warchest"....

[mbear]

MadCow, thanks for the 3058 suggestion.  No idea how I missed that.

mbear, cool idea on the terrain!

Scotty, still can't find the skill improvement stuff on TW.  As for TRO 3067, well, **I** played MW4 but none of my "target audience" has!  Hehehe....

Quick question about the Warchest system --- What's the best book to buy that presents a complete picture of this system?  I dug up an old copy of CAT35600 Chaos Campaign (Warchest point system campaign framework) and it lists skill advancement cost of 10 for Gunnery and 8 for Piloting skills but Total Chaos lists 200 for Gunnery and 150 for Piloting... huh?  This quickly put me off buying anything else until I establish what I need for the Warchest system.  How many "flavors" are there?  Which one is used primarily?  I don't want to start off with one thing then buy a supplement and find out it's using another system/variant.  I don't want to go forward with this "Jihad era warchest" then buy a pre-clan book then find out that there's a "succesion wars era warchest"....

I don't think the WarChest system is split up like that. I think the Total Chaos book has the final rules for WarChest, but I could be wrong.

[-Ice]

Skill improvement in Total Warfare is near the end of the book, in the balancing and creating scenarios section.  It's pretty rudimentary and basic, amounting to "one experience for playing, one experience for MVP" and a few basic improvement costs.  It's good if you're playing a really casual campaign, but for anything more involved you can do better.

I actually found something on p.40-41 of the TW book.  I can't find anything "near the end of the book," so I wonder if you've confused this bit or if I've gone totally blind??

[Scotty]

It's the latter.  I was thinking of the Random Skills/Experience Rating Tables on pg. 273 (in my book, at least) and got a wire crossed.

[-Ice]

It's the latter.  I was thinking of the Random Skills/Experience Rating Tables on pg. 273 (in my book, at least) and got a wire crossed.

I kinda suspected that was what you were talking about!


A few more questions:

5.  What's the best way to buy BT products?  I seem to be having problems sourcing BT items here in the UK, what stores carry BT stuff has limited selection.  I know there is BattleCorps or DriveThruRPG but I prefer having physical copies so even if I bought the PDFs, I'd still print them out so I'd just rather buy the hardcopies.  Anyone in the UK/EU know of a reliable store for physical copies?

6.  RATs -- I seem to remember there were loads of these, separated into various eras.  I'm looking for mech and vehicles tables for the pre-clan and Clan eras.  Help!

7.  My son wants to buy a BattleMech Recovery Vehicle for his merc unit, but we are currently about 7,000 CBills in debt.  MekHQ shows the cost of the vehicle to be around 392,000 CBills, and I am guessing that doesn't include the crew to operate it.  I was wondering how much it would cost to rent such a vehicle and crew?  I'm guessing 1/15 of the cost and then a certain percentage of the total salvage value?  That'll be 6.7% = 26,264 CBills and maybe 5% of the value of the player's share of the salvage?

[Mulsiphix]

Just an FYI. Here is one more tiny thread about playing with kids (here).

[Azakael]

6.  RATs -- I seem to remember there were loads of these, separated into various eras.  I'm looking for mech and vehicles tables for the pre-clan and Clan eras.  Help!

Xotl did an awesome RAT here: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,1219.0.html

Also, I wonder if the Historicals: War of 3039 book is worth him getting as well. It has prototype and dead-end techs for pre-clan era.

[(SMD)MadCow]

Starter Sword and Dragon has some too in addition to a warchest system and explanation on how to use it.
Its also an ontro box supplement, so might be pretty good investment.