Third Succession War

[Dmon]

Every time a "wishlist" for future products comes up a Third Succession War book similar to the ones we got for the first two features pretty high. But we all know that the Third Succession War was a bit of a monster having run for 160 years. CGL have all but stated that it would be all but impossible to actually create such a book.

Has anybody actually sat down and cross-referenced the various third war era books and created a timeline of all the battles?

[Sartris]

*lights mendrugo beacon*

[Elmoth]

Sarna has a timeline feature. Maybe you could start there?

[Sartris]

It’s a decent start though a lot of it is x raided y. I’d say you have 15-18 decent multi-regiment operations (Killing Stroke, Galtor) plus incidents that were interesting (the Cutthroat Fiasco) or high-stakes (Third Battle of Mallory’s World). That’s enough for a conventional sourcebook though it’s a big stretch of timeline.

What I do think the line needs is a single sourcebook a la an era report set around 3015-3030 as an intro to the btu for people just getting into the game. As of now there is no single worldbulding setting text.

[bobthecoward]

I'm not sure there is a book there. I think these books fall into two categories....you know which units battled where (liberation of Terra, jihad hot spots Terra, probably the Terra chapter of ilclan), and those that you don't know where every unit fought (first and second succession wars).

The former was handled pretty well in things like Mallory's world. The latter could be fun to see more accounts of heroes and villains (like reunification war did with furlough and Pitcairn), but it is even less about each individual than the first and second succession wars.

[Sartris]

I'm not sure there is a book there.

i should say it's enough material to form a book- on top of a general section on the nature of the conflict(s). whether it sells or is interesting is another matter. that's probably one of the reasons we've never gotten a 3rdSW book.

[bobthecoward]

i should say it's enough material to form a book- on top of a general section on the nature of the conflict(s). whether it sells or is interesting is another matter. that's probably one of the reasons we've never gotten a 3rdSW book.

What would the themes be? It seems like it makes a much more difficult story to tell.

[Minemech]

 The timelines are not really designed to be comprehensive, as much as build a framework that you can work from. There are constant raids of varying scales, and some are even mistaken for outright planetary assaults. You can cross-reference timelines with extra resources such as Rolling Thunder. Just keep in mind that resources are not necessarily consistent.

[Sartris]

What would the themes be? It seems like it makes a much more difficult story to tell.

again, probably why no comprehensive third war book has ever existed in the history of the product line. i don't think the themes are anything particularly difficult to hash out. whether they're interesting enough is another matter. i'm not in charge of such things so i get to not worry about it. an early 3000s intro sourcebook that tries to capture some of the old 80s hair metal magic is much more feasable.

a lot of the 3SW battles are probably better suited for TP or Brush Wars installments rather than as a grand narrative

[nckestrel]

a lot of the 3SW battles are probably better suited for TP or Brush Wars installments rather than as a grand narrative

Like

Brush Wars series

...the Battle of Dahlgren...

Agree on an intro type sourcebook to the era, and then other books for specific battles.  A 160 year comprehensive book would be both a mess to sort out, and ridiculous in scope.

[Arkansas Warrior]

I want a 3SW book for one reason: First Prince Melissa Davion, the greatest Prince between Alexander and Hanse.  We see some of her early exploits in the 2SW book; how as Colonel of the Davion Assault Guards she raided St. Ives, shattering the JADE CASTLE while Chancellor Dainmar Liao soiled himself in the basement and begged for peace.  But I want to hear more about her as a person, about her reign as First Prince, and about her creation of the Davion RCT and the Model Army.

[Daryk]

A comprehensive book would be something like "3SW: A Brush Wars Omnibus Compendium"...  ^-^

[David CGB]

I want a 3SW book for one reason: First Prince Melissa Davion, the greatest Prince between Alexander and Hanse.  We see some of her early exploits in the 2SW book; how as Colonel of the Davion Assault Guards she raided St. Ives, shattering the JADE CASTLE while Chancellor Dainmar Liao soiled himself in the basement and begged for peace.  But I want to hear more about her as a person, about her reign as First Prince, and about her creation of the Davion RCT and the Model Army.

seconded please

[Dmon]

Sarna has a timeline feature. Maybe you could start there?

Well the aim of what I have planned is actually for Sarna ;-)

The timelines are not really designed to be comprehensive, as much as build a framework that you can work from. There are constant raids of varying scales, and some are even mistaken for outright planetary assaults. You can cross-reference timelines with extra resources such as Rolling Thunder. Just keep in mind that resources are not necessarily consistent.

Exactly what I am asking if anybody has already done before I start doing it for Sarna.


I am thinking to start expanding this out to be as comprhensive as possible.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Category:Third_Succession_War_Era_Military_Operations

[Xotl]

There is easily a book here, as long as you're willing to avoid the trap of attempting to detail every last battle.  If you're going to do that, you'd need a two-volume job, similar to Liberation of Terra.  But a book that captures the feel, the setting of the late Mad Max 3rd War: I think that's easily doable.  I've been tinkering with one on and (mostly) off for years.  I'll post a bit of it later.

[Daryk]

I, for one, look forward to your Battlemaster turning yellow!  :thumbsup:

[ShadowSwordmaster]

Well the aim of what I have planned is actually for Sarna ;-)Exactly what I am asking if anybody has already done before I start doing it for Sarna.


I am thinking to start expanding this out to be as comprhensive as possible.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Category:Third_Succession_War_Era_Military_Operations

I wish you the best of luck because I don't anybody has done this so far.

[Guardian11]

An Era Report: 3025 should be doable, and considering the amount of people new to Battletech looking for an easy to access source that gets them up to speed on the setting, especially the default setting of the AGoAC Box Set, it seems like a product that would sell well and help with onboarding new players by giving them a starting point that people could easily point them to.

[Xotl]

This is a random assortment of stuff I have for it (all 100% unofficial, of course).  The idea was to give a super-condensed mix of the Objectives, Field Manual, and Era Report books, reprinting key stuff, answering some things that had never really been tackled, and trying to bring the era across as a playable setting too.  Hard to say what an actual, official Third War book would look like: there's so many different ways you could go about it, and of course things like available budgets mandating a book of X size or whatever could come into play as well.

Maybe now that I'm done my degree I can find the time and energy to work on this some more.  Could be a good fan project if it was completed, even if almost entirely non-canon.

EDIT: link removed

[Orwell84]

This is a random assortment of stuff I have for it (all 100% unofficial, of course).  The idea was to give a super-condensed mix of the Objectives, Field Manual, and Era Report books, reprinting key stuff, answering some things that had never really been tackled, and trying to bring the era across as a playable setting too.  Hard to say what an actual, official Third War book would look like: there's so many different ways you could go about it, and of course things like available budgets mandating a book of X size or whatever could come into play as well.

Maybe now that I'm done my degree I can find the time and energy to work on this some more.  Could be a good fan project if it was completed, even if almost entirely non-canon.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dslercgoh2h5iyl/Campaign%20Guide%20-%203005%20%5Bsample%5D.pdf?dl=0

Just had a quick read through it - and I think you've made a superb effort :thumbsup: Looking forward to reading more.

[Daryk]

A Blazer Awesome!!! :excited:

[SLDF_Gunslinger]

Maybe now that I'm done my degree I can find the time and energy to work on this some more.  Could be a good fan project if it was completed, even if almost entirely non-canon.

Please do! This is awesome!

[Elmoth]

Wow! Great work man!!

[Frabby]

The Third Succession War is very special - it is the seed from which all other eras evolved. It is the focal point of the BattleTech universe timeline.

And for that reason I feel it is impossible to create a satisfactory sourcebook - it would either fail to even scratch the surface, or in trying to do it justice, grow to unmanageable size (and then some).

And that's not even considering the research effort.
Unlike other times, the Third Succession War has been fleshed out in such meticulous detail that you would have to cross-reference a significant share of all published BattleTech across the past 36 years - even later eras prominently feature events that are historically anchored in the Third Succession War. The plotlines are tremendously complicated and intertwined, and frequently span several eras.
This is different from virtually all other eras. The Star League, early Succession Wars, and Jihad eras first existed in a "we started here, and got to there, in roughly this manner" outline looking back from a later point in the timeline, and fiction was then written around that skeleton to fill the holes in history. Clan Invasion, Civil War and Dark Age eras were mapped out beforehand in Writers' Summits and then developed in a similar fashion.

Not so the Third Succession War, which was the sole setting (only "era") for a time and still remains at the core of the franchise. It still gets stuff added to it. So you cannot create a skeleton sketch to work from, but rather have to collate what info there is and determine the timeline from there - fiction shapes the era here more than era design guided the fiction.

[Frabby]

A Blazer Awesome!!! :excited:

Low-hanging apple - just like the UrbanMech this is an obvious prime candidate for a blazer refit. I like it. :)

[Minemech]

 I will stick with my Binary Laser armed miningmechs, thank you.

[Daryk]

I appreciate any and all love for the Blazer Cannon... Nothing can compare to its 3SW style...  :D

[Mendrugo]

*lights mendrugo beacon*

(I did once compile a master list of all battles, but I have no idea where that database has gone.  Surveying the five original House books, we get the following list.)  While most of the action in the Third Succession War has been described as cross-border raids, there were some major offensives.  Some of these include:

2866 - 2894 - Combine launches major offensive against Federation of Skye, culminating in the Combine's unsuccessful invasion of Skye in 2893-2894.
2869 - AFFS launches Operation PENDRAGON against House Kurita
2869 - FWL takes several planets from the Lyrans, cutting a deep swathe into the Federation of Skye
2869-2870 - Capellan March forces launch unsanctioned invasion of Verlo.
2876 - AFFS forces invade David
2901 - FWL forces are driven off of Sirius during their deep penetration raid.
2880 - FWLM repulses an CCAF attempt to take Les Halles.
2885 - LCAF launches counteroffensive against the rimward portion of the Combine border.
2891 - AFFS liberates Robinson
2895 - 2899 - Kurita offensive seizes Imbros, Buckminster, Moore, Phalan, Sakhanin, and Orestes
2901 - 2910: FWL "Red Rover" strike force raids Liao supply centers on Aldebaran, Shensi and Nanking, seize an ice-ship at Buenos Aires, and assault Zion.
2903 - Major aerospace battle between CCAF and AFFS on Van Diemen IV.
2905 - 2930 - CC and FS sign an armistice after a stalemate on Van Diemen IV.
2910 - DCMS takes Sevren, holds it until 3024
2913 - LCAF launches Operation FREEDOM against the Combine, which runs (in fits and starts) until 3025
2913 - FWL forces invade Loric, but are repulsed by the Donegal Guards
2914 - AFFS issues stand-down orders on the Combine front.
2915 - DCMS launches invasion of the Tamar Pact, landing on Tamar in 2915, but having to retreat by 2916
2915 - AFFS launches a major offensive against the Capellan Confederation that continues for at least a decade (Note: this is from the Kurita SB, and is contradicted by the Davion and Liao SBs, which describe this period as being covered by an armistice.)
2918 - AFFS launches a broad offensive against the Combine, taking Lima and McComb and raiding Lapida II, Arlington, Huan, and Capra.
2924 - FWL invades Wing and Callison
2925 - AFFS invades Xhosa VII with three 'Mech regiments
2925 - FWL invades Hassad, forcing the CCAF to withdraw.
2926 - FWL invades Shiloh
2928 - FWL launches a deep raid against Solaris
2929 - FWL repulses a Lyran invasion of Stewart
2930 - AFFS invades New Aragon and renews attacks along the entire Capellan March with Operation ROLAND's HORN - hitting Ankaa, Deneb Kaitos, Caph, Northwind, Ruchbah and Halloran V.  Secondary targets included New Hessen, Kawich, and Nopah.
2934 - FWL attacks Hsien, but withdraws with heavy losses.
2941 - FWL takes Ohrensen, Ventabren, Suzano, Zion and Kyrkbacken from the CapCon
2943 - FS mercenaries attack Hsien, but are driven off.  CCAF launches a retaliatory deep strike against Lee, which is repulsed.
2947 - FWL invades Ingersoll
2950 - 2953: FWL launches Operation KILLING STROKE against LyrCom, but majority of provinces withhold support.
2952 - FWL invades Cavanaugh II
2952 - Operation FREEDOM retakes Phalan
2952 - CCAF fighters destroy Marik raiders at Ingersoll
2953 - CCAF fighters are decimated at the "Great Lee Turkey Shoot"
2953-2955 - A DCMS invasion of Alexandria triggered the Steiner/Kurita front's largest battle of the Third War, lasting two years
2953-2990 - Lack of provincial support limits the FWL to limited wars on both fronts.
2957 - Ninth Battle of Hesperus II (two Kurita 'Mech regiments dropped on the mountain range)
2961 - AFFS conquers Breed
2967 - Marik raiders on Holt force the CCAF garrison to withdraw.
2970 - The AFFS massacres the entire Home Guard battalion on Xieng Khouang.
2971 - FWL invades Loric, trying to cut off Poulsbo, Denebola, Teukros, and Bobruisk.  The invasion is repulsed by Steiner mercenaries.
2978 - CapCon seizes Wasat
2979 - CCAF forces surprise Davion units on Spica, driving them offworld.
2980 - Steiner forces attacked Zosma and Callison in a well coordinated strike
2982 - 2992 - CCAF reorganizes its aerospace forces
2897 - A large Liao force attacked Hassad and Vanra, but are repulsed.
2987 - Alessandro Steiner launches a Deep Raid into the FWL, hitting Ling, Park Place, Ryerson, Irian, Nathan, and Bordon.
2987 - The AFFS makes six separate attempts to take Tikonov, but fails.
2990 - FWL defeats Liao forces on Teng
2992 - CCAF inflicts heavy losses on AFFS on St. Andre
2997 - Tenth Battle of Hesperus II - FWL attacked a supply depot
2997 - LCAF attacks Kalidasa with Hesperus garrison
2997 - FWL lands four 'Mech regiments on Hesperus, but is repulsed by the ELH
3000 - Three DCMS 'Mech regiments attack Hesperus
3000 - LCAF attempts to reclaim Sevren - fighting drags on for 20 years
3000-3006 - SAFE-backed units begin a raiding campaign into the Federated Suns in retaliation for an April 3000 AFFS raid on Kalidasa.
3001 - Warrior Houses defend Lincoln from the AFFS.
3002 - FLW attacks Loric and Solaris VII
3002 - Third Battle of Harrow's Sun gives the Federated Suns two salients in the Combine border at Harrow's Sun and Cylene II.
3002 - FWL offensive under Anton Marik grinds to a halt on Menkalinan and New Canton.
3002 - 3006 - LCAF implements Operation CONCENTRATED WEAKNESS
3003 - House Ijori defeats Davion mercenaries on Tsamma.
3006 - FWL launches deep raids against Bolan, Pollux, Coventry and other worlds.
3007 - DCMS launches a modest offensive against the Davion salients, pinching them off.
3011 - LCAF launches major offensive to claim Sevren, but is stalemated.  Oberon Confederation forces land in the middle of the fighting, and barely escape alive.  Winfield's Guards are nearly exterminated.
3013 - Third Battle of Mallory's World
3014 - Battle of Halstead Station
3014 - AFFS launches an offensive against the Capellan Confederation, hitting St. Ives
3015 - DCMS uses a combined Dieron/Benjamin task force to attack Mara.
3015 - 3020: Hanse Davion launches the "No war, no peace" campaign against the CC, averaging a raid a month by 3018, and hitting St. Ives in 3019, and Carver V in 3015 and 3018.
3016 - DCMS attempts to cut off Tamar by seizing Laurent, after feinting towards Sevren to draw off defending forces in the region.
3016(ish?) - Battle of Dahlgren forces Lyrans to cede several systems to the Combine.
3017 - 3020 - Wolf's Dragoons begins "Cattle Raiding" campaign on Lyran border.
3019 - Wolf's Dragoons attacks Hesperus for the FWL.
3020 - The LCAF reactivates Operation FREEDOM and raids Dromini VI.
3022 - LCAF recaptures Carse with help from the AFFS
3022: AFFS mercenaries raid Sian
3022 - AFFS launches a major offensive against the Draconis Combine, recapturing Tancredi IV, Galatia II, and Rowe.
3022 - 3025: McCarron's Long March campaign hits Tawas, Farwell, Kathil, McHenry, Muskegon, Marlette, Goshen, Emerson, Smolensk, Beten Kaitos, Bristol, Listowei, Mira and Mesartim.
3024 - LCAF finally retakes Sevren
3025 - The Galtor Campaign
3025 - House Liao launches Operation DOPPELGANGER.  It...doesn't end well for them.

[MarauderD]

Awesome list Mendrugo, thanks.

I would buy that book in a heartbeat, were it ever put together.  No, we don't "need" it, but it would be a fantastic addition, especially the further we get from the 3rd War.

[Minemech]

 If you go into the unit sections, even more things can be explained. The 9th Marik Militia was crippled after the civil war, got raided by the Cappies, and retaliated by snagging world despite being crippled.