Mech of the week: Axman

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

No you see how the No-Dachi came into being.

[JerichoRehling]

How did the -3S in 3057 carry a LFE when LFE's weren't introduced til 3062, and even the earliest prototypes were in 3058?

[Hellraiser]

Thanks for the heads up..

Wonder why they never adapted any 90 tonners to carry one.
PS sorry to the Original poster for a slight derailment of the thread on that..

And now I can see it, the Axe-wielding Cyclops variant that needs no AC20 to keep enemy mechs at a distance.

[SteelRaven]

How did the -3S in 3057 carry a LFE when LFE's weren't introduced til 3062, and even the earliest prototypes were in 3058?

The 3S was introduced in 3060 but yeah, still 2 years too early but I guess we can say the 3S was the LA prototype chassis for the LFE (until tptb gives us a better answer)

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

It's also a year too early for the LB 20-X and ER Medium Laser, too.  Chalk it up to a screw-up on the intro date of the mech, I think.

[Wrangler]

While very Kuritan, i'd like to see a MRM variant of the Axman to have been added.  While not accurate, that thing would pulverized a target only be finished off by a large hatchet.

[GreekFire]

It's also a year too early for the LB 20-X and ER Medium Laser, too.  Chalk it up to a screw-up on the intro date of the mech, I think.

IntOps gives a production date of 3058 for both ER Lasers and the LB 20-X, so there's no issue there (the AXM-3S has an intro date of 3060).
As for the Light Engine, prototypes started appearing in Lyran forces in late 3058/early 3059, so that could be the reason for the earlier intro date of the 6S.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Was going off of JerichoRehling's statement about a 3057 intro date.

[garhkal]

While very Kuritan, i'd like to see a MRM variant of the Axman to have been added.  While not accurate, that thing would pulverized a target only be finished off by a large hatchet.

Two MRM-40s would be sweet..

[SD501st]

Two MRM-40s would be sweet..

And way too heavy with ammunition. I can see 2x20 MRMs as shoulder mounted weapons(fluff had it that the AC 20 had feeding and reliability problems, which is why the LRM variant became the "best known"). Or even 2x30 MRMs, but only with lots of concessions to weight.
BRB, going to build one to test the hypothesis.

Yeah, just as I thought... 2x30's can work, with CASE, but there's no tonnage for any secondary weapon or speed improvement unless going with an XL engine. 2x40s are straight up impossible at 65 tons 4/6/4(and this is considered slow already)without an XL, and even with one, you'll run into either weight or space constraints before you know it. If you want anything that's still an Axman at 65 tons, that is. For this armament of 2x40 MRMApollo +Hatchet+some X-Pulse, I got down to a 90 tonner going 3/5/3(there's weight left over for one goodie, but no space. And that's with only 12 shots per MRM40 and without CASE. Below that weight or above that speed, the hatchet has to go.

TL;DR version: Won't work, simply not possible. If you want 2x40 MRMs, an XL engine+CASE is out, either one or the other because the MRM40's leave only 3 crits open in the side torsi. And you'll have to shave armor off as well. And only 6 shots per launcher

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

The 1N and 2N already have XL engines.

[Wrangler]

Can the Fusion Engine - Compact version  help with room issue?

[SD501st]

For the Axman at 65 tons? No, if you go for a compact engine you instead run out of weight after the Hatchet and 2x20MRMs without ammunition. All a compact engine would accomplish is that the engine becomes almost impossible to be crit'ed before the CT structure goes completely... and for the same max. standard armor, Endo-Steel, 2xMRM 20+Apollo, 3 ERML and the Hatchet you would also have to slow the Mech down to 3/5/3 on the 65 ton platform, which is... let's be nice and call it questionable. And even after that sacrifice, only 1.5 tons are left over. You'd get a better result using a standard engine and armoring that!  xp

I'll better open a thread in the fan design section for these speculations though. So here is the Axman Workshop

[grimlock1]

Also the Axman is a product of TRO 3050, where well thought out designs were few and far between.   ;)

So true.  Sad but true.

Though to be fair, you’d probably have to make quite a few compromises to do it. Dump the LPL and maybe give it a compact gyro?

You had me at "dump the LPL."  The -1N has enough close range firepower that a straight swap for a stock PPC looks pretty good, although I have to ask who thought it was a good idea to put the 3 medium lasers, on the same arm as the hatchet?  :bang: 

[gyedid]

So true.  Sad but true.
You had me at "dump the LPL."  The -1N has enough close range firepower that a straight swap for a stock PPC looks pretty good, although I have to ask who thought it was a good idea to put the 3 medium lasers, on the same arm as the hatchet?  :bang:

Well, it does give some coverage to what is otherwise a gunnery blind spot.

cheers,

Gabe

[grimlock1]

Well, it does give some coverage to what is otherwise a gunnery blind spot.

cheers,

Gabe

Put the ostensibly "long ranged" large pulse laser or the LRMs in the right arm.

[gyedid]

Put the ostensibly "long ranged" large pulse laser or the LRMs in the right arm.

I don't think that's really so different from the 3 ML, if the hatchet is still there. The point is to have *something* that you can shoot at an opponent who happens to be sitting in your right firing arc, out of reach of the hatchet.

cheers,

Gabe

[grimlock1]

I don't think that's really so different from the 3 ML, if the hatchet is still there. The point is to have *something* that you can shoot at an opponent who happens to be sitting in your right firing arc, out of reach of the hatchet.

cheers,

Gabe

I know IS large pulse has the same range bands as a medium laser, but it is occasionally fluffed as a "long range" weapon because reasons. But 3 mediums would be better used on the left arm because they have more combined damage than the large pulse.  That way you still have a right side gun, but don't have to choose between 3x5 damage or the hatchet.

[garhkal]

At range 7+, imo the LPL is better, as it hits as if at medium...

[glitterboy2098]

since you can fire any weapons on the opposite arm while using a hatchet, you really want the 3 ML's on the "offhand" arm from the hatchet so you can fire those ML's while still able to bash with the hatchet. currently you can't, which makes it a questionable design choice. the LPL does less damage and at point blank range its -2 to hit is largely redundant.

this is also why the hatchetman's one ML per arm inefficent as well, as it would be much more combat effective if it mounted both in the offhand arm and could volley them off alonside the hatchet.

and since weapons fire occurs before the melee combat phase, it is not uncommon for less experianced players to fire their guns, then realize they can't legally use the hatchet anymore.

[Hellraiser]

What would have made sense is to have the LPL be an ERLL & put THAT in the Axe arm.  So you can snipe from range if you have to.
Then with the free tonnage you upgrade the ML's to MPLs & have them in the Arm Opposite The Axe.
Walla, weapons in either arm & the PL's work at the point blank range the Axe was meant for, and you have a gun that can hit out to 19 hexes.

I know IS large pulse has the same range bands as a medium laser, but it is occasionally fluffed as a "long range" weapon because reasons.

It actually doesn't.
The LPL has an extra Hex at Medium range making it 3-7-10
I agree on the rest though as I mentioned above.

[Greatclub]

The way I look at it, the large pulse has no long range band, a medium range band from 8-10, a short band from 4-7, and a special pulse band from 1-3.

I think the axman makes more more sense if it was meant to be one of a handful of high-tech mechs on the battlefield, hunting Panther and Vindicators. In the context of the clan invasion? Not so much

[gyedid]

What would have made sense is to have the LPL be an ERLL & put THAT in the Axe arm.  So you can snipe from range if you have to.
Then with the free tonnage you upgrade the ML's to MPLs & have them in the Arm Opposite The Axe.
Walla, weapons in either arm & the PL's work at the point blank range the Axe was meant for, and you have a gun that can hit out to 19 hexes.

Not quite.  Swapping the LPL for an ERLL frees up only two tons, not three. So you can upgrade two of the MLs to MPLs, but not all three without giving up something else.

The way I look at it, the large pulse has no long range band, a medium range band from 8-10, a short band from 4-7, and a special pulse band from 1-3.

I think the axman makes more more sense if it was meant to be one of a handful of high-tech mechs on the battlefield, hunting Panther and Vindicators. In the context of the clan invasion? Not so much

It doesn't even make sense doing that, unless it's in close quarters. Remember, even intro-tech Panthers and Vindicators have a PPC that reaches out to 18 hexes, which the -1N Axman has no answer for. The -2N is a different story.

cheers,

Gabe

[SteelRaven]

Hatchetman had the same problem of putting the laser on the same arm as the hatchet, a bad habit with FedCom/Fasa we don't see change until later mechs like the Berserker and Nightsky that makes sure the hatchet arm is free for swinging. It's like they thought of the Hatchet as a backup weapon we your heat has at it's limit vs something pilots would use just as much as the med lasers when given the chance.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

It's one of those FASA "let's insure the mech isn't optimized" things.

[Phobos]

Now at least there is a quirk to actually use the arm weapons when doing a melee attack, or does that only count for regular fist attacks rather than melee weapons?

[Wrangler]

I really wish they had allowed for AX at least do more damage.  Most of the time, people just kick because they leg damage is op.  (shrugs)  It needs to be changed up.

Again, i saw some cheese player try to push his TWO AX wielding Berserker, thinking you could do two fist/ax attacks at same time.  xp

[grimlock1]

I really wish they had allowed for AX at least do more damage.  Most of the time, people just kick because they leg damage is op.  (shrugs)  It needs to be changed up.

Again, i saw some cheese player try to push his TWO AX wielding Berserker, thinking you could do two fist/ax attacks at same time.  xp

I made that mistake too.  :(

[kindalas]

My mistake for the longest time was hatchets hitting on the punch hit location table.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Practically everyone made that mistake until Total Warfare made it explicit that it hit on the full-body table.