BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat
BattleTech Game Systems => General BattleTech Discussion => Topic started by: Revanche on 06 July 2011, 19:01:55
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I spent my Independence holiday following my artistically-challenged drive to create tiles from those provided on the Warfare Symbology graphics, found on the downloads page.
The examples those files provide were -to put it bluntly- excellent, and allowed me to derive from them some of the more common tiles. I've provided 140 in all, including a blank, in the below RAR file.
It'd be really cool if others used these tiles to make their own, both general & model-specific, posting them here, from which all to make use. Additionally, there's a chance I might be able to make some more generic ones (while the knowledge is fresh), if so asked.
Revanche's CBT-style tiles:
Core set (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/34536947/CBT%20Military%20Symbology/CBT%20Military%20Symbology%20Icons%20%28Core%29.rar)
Unit icons set (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/34536947/CBT%20Military%20Symbology/Unit%20Size%20Icons.RAR)
Trace Coburn's MilSketch tiles:
Units (http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7763.0;attach=5260)
Units (Infantry) (http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7763.0;attach=5261)
Sizes & Modifiers (http://www.classicbattletech.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7763.0;attach=5262)
Hope this helps,
Rev
Edit: Added Trace Coburn's three sets to first post.
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Might help if it was zipped rather than rar. :(
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7-zip.
Will unpack almost every common format out there. Free to boot.
Davout
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7-zip.
Will unpack almost every common format out there. Free to boot.
Davout
A link to 7-zip (http://www.7-zip.org/) for the lazy energy conservationists.
Thanks Rev, these are cool!
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Thanks, Davout73 and mbear, for helping him out. I'm sure he appreciates it.
For the record, WinZip does open .rar. I just tested it on my gubmint computer, which isn't known for being on the cutting edge.
Hope this helps,
Rev
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Just realized on my newer, faster, replacement computer doesn't have the snazzy things (like winzip) of the old, dead box. :(
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Wonderful! I like the various selections of sub-varieties...
Just means more arcane symbols to toss about in documents and OoBs to enhance an RPG adventure... which is great!
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Okay, now if we can get the unit size markers seperately to add on, we'd be stylin'!
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I can definitely provide unit size tiles, but to add them to each of the equipment tiles would take a (hopefully) group effort that would result in ten times the number I provided.
My suggestion is they get created as they're needed and then provided here. Any other ideas?
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I can definitely provide unit size tiles, but to add them to each of the equipment tiles would take a (hopefully) group effort that would result in ten times the number I provided.
My suggestion is they get created as they're needed and then provided here. Any other ideas?
The unit-sizes are simply tabs at the top of the tile, right? Extend the equipment tiles' top borders to allow room for the unit-size tab, then create a set of tabs (one for each unit-size) so the user can put them together with the unit-type tile as and when needed. In a programme like Paint.Net, it would be a simple matter of using layering - especially if the backgrounds on the size-tabs were deleted and null - and while I don't use other programmes like Inkscape or GIMP, it'd probably be just as straightforward in those. ;)
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Trace, would you mind doing that with one of them (maybe the blank)? That would help me see clearly what and how to do it for the others.
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Trace, would you mind doing that with one of them (maybe the blank)? That would help me see clearly what and how to do it for the others.
Not tonight, being as it's nearly midnight, but I should have an example for you by tomorrow evening - if someone hasn't Roosterboy'd me with one by then. :D
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Thanks, Trace.
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what program did you use for these?
I made up a bunch of joke NATO map symbols on a boring ex a while back, but just sketched them up with my clumsy hand
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Paint.net.
But, more importantly, the actual symbology came from the download graphics provided by CGL; I just cut-'n-'pasted for the most part.
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In anticipation for Trace's layer training tomorrow morning, I've created a set of unit size icons. I won't know until tomorrow if they're at the proper scale, but they're posted here at least until then.
First post updated to show both sets.
Hope this helps,
Rev
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Can you post them as a high quality .gif as well?
Davout73
In anticipation for Trace's layer training tomorrow morning, I've created a set of unit size icons. I won't know until tomorrow if they're at the proper scale, but they're posted here at least until then.
First post updated to show both sets.
Hope this helps,
Rev
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If you're just wanting the (current) core set, sure...I can get you GIF89a.
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In anticipation for Trace's layer training tomorrow morning, I've created a set of unit size icons. I won't know until tomorrow if they're at the proper scale, but they're posted here at least until then.
First post updated to show both sets.
Hope this helps,
Rev
FWIW, I went with a base size of ~70% from the master .jpg of unit-sizes, but I could probably play with that if folks think it's too small. I've only got the Blaker and Clan overlays done for the moment - the others will be along in a few minutes. I've left the top of the unit-type box on the overlays so you can match it up in the layering process.
Okay, I've tried to apply the KISS principle to all this so I don't confuse myself (or anyone else). :D In Paint.Net:
1. Open the desired unit-type tile.
2. In the 'Image' menu, open the 'Canvas Size' feature. Select a centre-point at the bottom of the image (bottom-centre for preference), then reset the tile's height to 225 pixels. (Width shouldn't need changing.)
3. In the 'Layers' menu, add a new layer, leaving the unit-type as the background.
4. Open the desired unit-size overlay, then copy and paste it to the new layer. Move it around until the two box-tops match perfectly, then merge the overlay down onto the unit-type box.
5. Save your image.
And you're all done. ;)
EDIT: All three symbol-sets now here. In trying these out on the unit-type tiles, it looks like the scaling wasn't quite right between each set - the box-top from the 'blank' tile is somewhat narrower than the one on, for example, the 'Heavy Tracked Vehicle' unit-type tile. :-[ Still, you can use the box-top on the overlay to position the size-symbol on the unit-type box, then delete the overlay's box-top before merging down. Before-and-after examples attached to my next post.
EDIT 2: IS set deleted and replaced because I just realised I hadn't done the symbol for a regiment. :-[ Please update your downloads to get the full set.
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Here's the example.
'Heavy Tanks' is the unit-type tile, expanded upwards ready for its overlay.
'Battle-Group (centred)' is the unit-size overlay, centred on the unit-type box.
'Heavy Tanks Battle-Group (before)' is the two merged together without my deleting the extra box-top, so you know about where the centring put things on this example.
'Heavy Tanks Battle-Group (after)' is the final product, where the extraneous box-top was deleted before the merge.
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That process was clear and remarkably easy, at least for my first one. It lined up perfectly.
However, this still requires a group effort, if unit sizes are merged with all equipment tiles. There are 4,480 different combinations possible.
Trace's directions are really the best way to do this. Paint.net is free and with his instructions and size overlays and my equipment tiles, it's a matter of seconds to create the exact unit tile you want. And for those with other graphics programs, I'll bet it is as easy to do.
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Can you post them as a high quality .gif as well?
Here (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/34536947/CBT%20Military%20Symbology/Gif89a.RAR) ya go, Davout.
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Thanks.
Milsketch used .gifs only, not sure why, but its ok.
Heres a brief example of what I've been working on. Your Icons are different than mine, which is what I was looking for, just to tell the sides apart.
http://db.tt/jKqaZLU (http://db.tt/jKqaZLU)
It will open in a browser, or you can save it and open it up as the png file.
Thanks for the help,
Davout
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Great 'tactical' use of the tiles!
Is milsketch a program?
Edit: Found it! (http://www.historicalsoftware.com/HSC/HSCmilsketch.htm) Checking it out. Thanks!
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It takes a little getting used to, but once you remember to merge its great. Plus you can leave the creating windows open at all times, and just click back and forth.
I envision doing something similar to what Fasa did for the 4th Succession War Books, and once you create the basic map in paint or some similar program, you import the blank map into Milsketch, add the unit icons, arrows, etc, save and done.
I suspect once I get better with the nuances it will go faster.
Davout
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Yes, I can really see all that uber-coolness.
I'm reading thru the manual now, but is there a way to create hierarchical TOE tables?
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Create a blank map in paint. Use it as the base, create the Icons, use the lines as connectors.
I suspect if you want something like out of the old Merc book using powerpoint would probably be a bit better.
Davout
Yes, I can really see all that uber-coolness.
I'm reading thru the manual now, but is there a way to create hierarchical TOE tables?
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Thanks.
Milsketch used .gifs only, not sure why, but its ok.
In case you haven't checked it out already, Davout73, Paint.Net supports a wide range of formats for editing *and* saving, including .gif. (I'm coming off as a shill, I know, but it's a programme that I'm comfortable with and has a remarkable degree of power for a free download, so why not check it out? :D) Converting from .png to .gif is a simple matter of picking the right format out of the menu-box once you're done with the layering and merging. ;)
Heres a brief example of what I've been working on. Your Icons are different than mine, which is what I was looking for, just to tell the sides apart.
http://db.tt/jKqaZLU (http://db.tt/jKqaZLU)
It will open in a browser, or you can save it and open it up as the png file.
Thanks for the help,
Davout
Great 'tactical' use of the tiles!
Is milsketch a program?
Edit: Found it! (http://www.historicalsoftware.com/HSC/HSCmilsketch.htm) Checking it out. Thanks!
[drool] I want that. 50MB download? It'll have to be an overnight deal, but for that sort of mapping functionality, it's worth it. [drool] [notworthy]
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I actually started working on a little application that would build the icons for you. Basically you'd select the faction (or fore/back color), size, mobility, 3 or so attributes, all the echelons, etc.
It worked ok for simple stuff, but when you started combining attributes it got insane and the system broke down.
Some examples:
- Jump infantry with mountaineer training
- Wheeled air defense artillery in an omni vehicle
- loaded drone carrier wheeled omni supply tank
- C3 *and* HQ equipment
I was doing a method that wasn't very happy with infinite combinations:
- Draw an icon rectangle border thing
- Fill it full of the faction color
- Draw the size modifier on top of the rectangle
- Choose a mobility, draw the mech/track/etc logo
- Choose up to 6 echelons, 3 vertically per outside of the rectangle
- Draw an omni bar (top of rectangle)
- Draw a supply bar (bottom of rectangle)
- Draw a HQ bar (top of rectangle, below omni bar)
- Draw the C3 marker in lower right, or HQ
- Draw the transport line on the left side of rectangle (fill the area if its a BA transport)
- Draw another transport line on the left side of rectangle, if loaded/mounted
- Draw a class identifier in the top right
- Draw a cavalry/recon line from upper right to lower left
I was thinking of adding, perhaps under the rectangle, codes for Tech base, equipment rating, experience, and loyalty. Or maybe just a small string for the unit name.
Anyway, just combine all those things, many of which are possible for a single unit, and you'll see just how cluttered the icons can get, and why I got frustrated and stopped working on it.
Oh, and I also had to draw multiple size icons, so like capital weapon air defense is one size graphic, but add engineer and it has to have a smaller version, add drone... well, I don't even know how you can mix a drone with many other types... anyway, my frustration :)
Most of the issues I found could be simplified quite easily just by extending *out* of the icon a bit. Drones could instead be a small icon mounted to the bottom of a rectangle. Transports could have 1 or 2 small triangles on the right side of an icon, or whatever.
I've got the code and a bunch of graphics I made for it if anybody wants to take vb.net and complete it. It is like 500 lines of code but the "complicated" drawing stuff is only like 50.
Bad Syntax
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The thing I like about Milsketch is that more often than not, the base GIF is highly customizable with regards to color, background, and other data. The learning curve isn't steep, but the program itself isn't to user friendly at first.
Then again, I started fiddling with it after inputting all the 3025 OOB's into and ArcGIS shapefile so my patience with it may have been...short. On the other hand, I finally did figure out how to relate the OOB.dbf file to the planetary shapefile, so Tikonov does show all the units assigned to it and not just one, and I can move each unit around now, which makes things much easier.
Davout
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The thing I like about Milsketch is that more often than not, the base GIF is highly customizable with regards to color, background, and other data. The learning curve isn't steep, but the program itself isn't to user friendly at first.
Then again, I started fiddling with it after inputting all the 3025 OOB's into and ArcGIS shapefile so my patience with it may have been...short. On the other hand, I finally did figure out how to relate the OOB.dbf file to the planetary shapefile, so Tikonov does show all the units assigned to it and not just one, and I can move each unit around now, which makes things much easier.
Davout
I just spent a couple of hours playing with MilSketch, and while I'm not sure I've completely got the hang of it yet, I'm getting there, though a lot of what it does with the unit-symbols is stuff P.N and a little layering work could easily duplicate. ::) FWIW, I even converted the BT-icon .png files into proper 500x500 .gifs for interface with MilSketch - if you jokers want 'em, just say so and I'll drop 'em into this thread. (I didn't do an 'Omni' modifier-bar, though - it would've meant rescaling and redrawing all the icons by hand, and I'm not that masochistic. You'll have to use the bottom-text of a symbol to identify the unit as 'Omni'. I also left off the letter-codes which identify units by weight-class or docking-collars; again, the bottom-row text can cover that.)
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...if you jokers want 'em, just say so and I'll drop 'em into this thread.
Why not? Variety is the spice of life. I'll add them to the first post, too.
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I agree. Thanks Trace.
Why not? Variety is the spice of life. I'll add them to the first post, too.
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Rassin' frassin' connection gremlins.... >:(
Okay, here we go - I've had to split these across multiple files and multiple posts to get under the attachment size-limit, but all you need to do is unpack them into a single new folder in the 'Military Symbols' directory (I simply called it 'BattleTech') and take it away from there! :D
Please note that I couldn't use greyed-out panels in the 'infantry/battle-armour' icon, since MilSketch refuses to let you recolour a section that didn't start as white, black or the base shade of yellow; in lieu of those panels, I left in the 'MV0' text (though I'm snecked if I know what that acronym's supposed to mean ::) ).
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And here are the modifers and unit-sizes. I've done separate symbols for 'lance' and 'augmented lance' (though you can still build company/team and battalion/task-force augmentations yourselves), and I had to reshuffle the Blaker unit-sizes because MilSketch can't recolour greyed-out sections. :(
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so a quick google yields that the map symbol for special forces and MPs is simple SF or MP, signals is easy enough too, but what about composite units and of course a CAAN?
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For composites, I included some basic elements in with the files in the first post. Using Trace's guidelines, they'd be easy to create.
Are there any elements that you'd like to see added?
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well for my purposes i think the CAAN tile and composite would be similar, just on different scales...
but let me talk this out here;
a CAAN is a combined air-armour-naval formation (with a few mechs I think and at the RCT/brigade-level, correct?) and so we can assume artillery as well...that could get messy and crowded fast. I google-search yielded no universal "Composite" symbol. I should think maybe a circle, so an anchor in a circle?
what would you use for a marine expeditionary unit? maybe that would fit better? on that note how about units with amphibious capabilities? I saw an LVT tile in my search, but that just was a box with "LVT"
as for the composite unit...i think of the kind of thing found in the Mekong back in vietnam, a smaller CAAN almost; infantry, armed landing craft, floating fire support, airmobile assets.
I did not notice a landing craft code for any of the naval assets either.
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Trace Coburn: I've added the links to your three sets to the top post. I'd think your counter should remain updated, regardless of where they click on the link.
- Rev
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beachhead1985: I did use an anchor in the CBT-style tiles to denote (naval) Marines. You could possibly use that with some other symbology to denote a CAAN (maybe behind a 'Mech icon?). There may be some other icons I did not incorporate from the CBT graphics files (included in the main CBT-style set); if you can identify which ones you want, I'll add them.
- Rev
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Symbols Like a CAAN, MEU and MEF are simply a box with the letters in them, and then the unit element size above.
Davout73
well for my purposes i think the CAAN tile and composite would be similar, just on different scales...
but let me talk this out here;
a CAAN is a combined air-armour-naval formation (with a few mechs I think and at the RCT/brigade-level, correct?) and so we can assume artillery as well...that could get messy and crowded fast. I google-search yielded no universal "Composite" symbol. I should think maybe a circle, so an anchor in a circle?
what would you use for a marine expeditionary unit? maybe that would fit better? on that note how about units with amphibious capabilities? I saw an LVT tile in my search, but that just was a box with "LVT"
as for the composite unit...i think of the kind of thing found in the Mekong back in vietnam, a smaller CAAN almost; infantry, armed landing craft, floating fire support, airmobile assets.
I did not notice a landing craft code for any of the naval assets either.
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Symbols Like a CAAN, MEU and MEF are simply a box with the letters in them, and then the unit element size above.
Thanks, Davout73.
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Well, a CAAN would have a unit size above it. The other two would be just boxes. An MEU is a Task Force Oganization, you would have to have an index that had a breakdown of what was in the MEU at some point. An MEF is a Division sized unit, whose organization is pretty well laid out. As an example, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Marine_Expeditionary_Force
Davout
Thanks, Davout73.
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Well, a CAAN would have a unit size above it. The other two would be just boxes. An MEU is a Task Force Oganization, you would have to have an index that had a breakdown of what was in the MEU at some point. An MEF is a Division sized unit, whose organization is pretty well laid out. As an example, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Marine_Expeditionary_Force
Davout
Thanks, Davout73.
huh, you know, that doesn't sound so bad; a box with CAAN in it; it's simple and distinct. we don't really know alot abot the CAANs and how they were organized, I am hoping to be pleasently surprised in the new reunification war bookbeachhead1985: I did use an anchor in the CBT-style tiles to denote (naval) Marines. You could possibly use that with some other symbology to denote a CAAN (maybe behind a 'Mech icon?). There may be some other icons I did not incorporate from the CBT graphics files (included in the main CBT-style set); if you can identify which ones you want, I'll add them.
- Rev
nah, you did a great job, anything else I guess I can and should really make myself, especially the wierd stuff