Fight Night: Rifleman vs JagerMech

[YingJanshi]

Ok so assuming 3/4 pilots and fought on two BT mapsheets laid side-by-side (long edge to long edge), who would win:

the Rifleman or the JagerMech?

[martian]

Rifleman.

It has 24 points of armor more than the JagerMech and you can turn it into all-energy 'Mech when you dump ammo (if needed). Hell, the JagerMech has more points of internal structure than it has armor on all locations except the head.

Although the JagerMech has those AC-2s (and thus longer reach in theory), the map provides enough obstacles that break the LOS that the Rifleman can use when closing.

[A. Lurker]

Rifleman unless the JagerMech pilot is lucky enough to score two (possibly more if at least one is only with an AC/2) head hits before it's all over. Better head armor and the ability to run cooler are about the only two things the JM has over the RFL in this matchup -- without considerable luck early in the fight, its turns are numbered once the action moves into large laser range, and on only two mapsheets that moment won't normally be long in coming.

[Martius]

The Rifleman's large lasers are cannons of doom. Two hits can disarm a JägerMech literally.

[Jayof9s]

As has been said quite a bit, the Rifleman has more armor and trades the AC/2s for Large Lasers so it isn't much competition outside of pure luck intervening with headshots or TACs. The JagerMech technically has a range advantage thanks to the AC/2s but it is unlikely to be able to make use of it, even on a large map.

Edit: The JM6-A might make for a more interesting fight with the RFL-3N

[SteveRestless]

I'd say it depends quite a bit on which model of each mech, but over-all, the rifleman tends to have better mech on mech weaponry than the Jaeger.

[martian]

I'd say it depends quite a bit on which model of each mech, but over-all, the rifleman tends to have better mech on mech weaponry than the Jaeger.

The standard model of JagerMech is no duelist. The JM6-B on the other hand ...

[Jayof9s]

I'd say it depends quite a bit on which model of each mech, but over-all, the rifleman tends to have better mech on mech weaponry than the Jaeger.

The poll itself specifies the JM6-S and RFL-3N.  ;)

I was just pointing out in my edit that the JM6-A might make it a closer fight since everyone seems to fairly well agree that the JM6-S is outclassed by the RFL-3N.

[nerd]

Rifleman. The JagerMech has to be consistently lucky. The Rifleman just has to connect enough times with a large laser.

[SteveRestless]

The poll itself specifies the JM6-S and RFL-3N.  ;)

I was just pointing out in my edit that the JM6-A might make it a closer fight since everyone seems to fairly well agree that the JM6-S is outclassed by the RFL-3N.

Would you believe I didn't even see the poll part, and just saw the thread? ^^;;

[Saint]

I love the Jagermech and she has served me well, but the Rifleman has this one.

[ehlijen]

Would precision or AP ammo change that?

[Fallen_Raven]

I think special ammo might actually make it worse. Sure, the Jagermech has more autocannons, but AC/2s aren't heavy enough to cause a sea change. On the other hand, a Rifleman would have more reason to use its cooler running AC/5s, which makes it deadly even when holding back to dump heat.

Short version, giving both 'mechs equal access to special ammo helps the Rifleman more than it does the Jagermech.

[Demon55]

Rifleman as it has better weapons and armor.  Also the JagerMech will not likely be able to keep its range advantage as the mechs have the same speed.

[Stormlion1]

Rifleman, the Jagermech pilot would need better luck then the Rifleman to beat it. The armor and damage abilitys of the two designs gives the leverage to the Rifleman. Then again luck is everything...

[Mattlov]

Would precision or AP ammo change that?

Special ammo would help the Jager significantly.  The Rifleman can't afford to take specialty ammo since it only has a single ton available.  Cutting that in half would be silly.

If it could get close enough, the Jager does have the advantage of running significantly cooler.  As others have said though, the lack of armor protecting the arms dooms the Jager.  If it could maintain more distance it would help, but two mapsheets just doesn't provide enough space.

[Banzai]

I have to add to the avalanche that is Rifleman support.   As a Davonista from the get go, I am contractually obligated to like the JagerMech,  and some versions I do (JM6-A has always done me well in 3025 play, and it really came into its own when they bumped it up five tons,) but the standard version is too much a finesse machine for one on one dueling.  It is a team oriented role-player, like most 3025 'Mechs.  The long reach is fine, but it is criminally under armored, even compared to the poster child of criminally unarmored, the Rifleman.  Without lancemates to run defense, two map sheets are too small a playground for it to survive.

[Ghostbear_Gurdel]

As member #3 of the JM6 Haters club, I am contractually obligated to say that the Rifleman will win. ....And that is because it will.

[StCptMara]

No contest: The Rifleman. In fact, I would even go so far as to say: The RFL 3N can take the JagerMech
apart with just one arm. No..seriously: I bid one Large Laser and one AC/5 to ALL the JagerMech's weapons,
and I still think I will win.

[House Davie Merc]

Rifleman .

A single large laser hit to the arm of the JagerMech and your already
rolling for crits .
10 rounds of constant AC fire from the Rifleman and its an all energy zombie
wiith medium range weapons that are very damaging to the thin skinned Jag .

On top of that both side torsos of the Jagermech have a ton of ammo
and a medium laser .   A single critical hit to the side torsos is a 50 % chance
of a kaboom .

[Kitsune413]

Yeah. Jagermech pilot had better bring ap ammo and use those ac-2's for his life. If you can engine crit the rifleman maybe he can't eat you with his large lasers.

[Wildonion]

Special ammo would help the Jager significantly.  The Rifleman can't afford to take specialty ammo since it only has a single ton available.  Cutting that in half would be silly.

If we use specialty ammo then I would bet that the Rifleman would benefit from running caseless ammo. It is a little risky, but would help with the heat and ammo issue.

[Vash The Stampede]

In my experience of how lethal a rifleman can be, it would definitely ROFLstomp a Jager

[Mattlov]

Yeah. Jagermech pilot had better bring ap ammo and use those ac-2's for his life. If you can engine crit the rifleman maybe he can't eat you with his large lasers.

AP ammo is pointless on an AC/2.  Crit only on a 12 and harder to hit?  Not worth it.  Precision ammo would be more worth it to cancel out what little movement the Rifleman would have.

[StCptMara]

AP ammo is pointless on an AC/2.  Crit only on a 12 and harder to hit?  Not worth it.  Precision ammo would be more worth it to cancel out what little movement the Rifleman would have.

And, frankly, I would STILL take the JagerMech with only one arm of the Rifleman.

[Death by Zeus]

I am one of the five that disagree, all of the JagerMech weapons outrange large lasers. Having equal mobility this means that the JagerMech wins more times than not.  Having 45 rounds of AC/2 means being able to take a few marginal shots instead of just waiting for good ones.

[A. Lurker]

I am one of the five that disagree, all of the JagerMech weapons outrange large lasers. Having equal mobility this means that the JagerMech wins more times than not.  Having 45 rounds of AC/2 means being able to take a few marginal shots instead of just waiting for good ones.

On rolling maps there might be something to that (though even there it would be dubious -- the JagerMech can't backpedal as quickly as the Rifleman can advance, so the only way to maintain the distance would be to run the hell away and keep those arms flipped backwards, and even that basically assumes salt flats so the JM can reliably keep LOS and make actual use of that range advantage).

On a grand total of 32 x 17 hexes as posited by the OP, though? Nnnnope. Classic fight on a postage stamp, that JagerMech's gonna get cornered in short order.

[glitterboy2098]

so far things look pretty grim for the Jagermech. but obviously there had to be some reason the Jager' was made the way it was, and not just a copy of the Rifleman.

technically both are supposed to have anti-aircraft as their Raison d'être.. even if anti-mech is the role most people apply them to in the overall meta-game (games with fighters in them being somewhat less common than pure ground battles)

so how do the two fair in their primary role as anti-aircraft?
assuming Aerospace and Conventional craft of similar tech levels as the mech models in this little competition.

[Kotetsu]

Jager. Games I've been involved in the Jager tends to have insane luck and the ability to weather significantly more fire than the Rifleman. Then again, my luck with Class-2 autocannons and Golden BBs is a bit... extreme.

[Martius]

so how do the two fair in their primary role as anti-aircraft?
assuming Aerospace and Conventional craft of similar tech levels as the mech models in this little competition.

4 ACs shooting Flak ammo vs. 2.

The JägerMech is better here.