Lance versus Hatchet and maybe other melee weapons

[Sartris]

Is it +4? Oy.

[RoundTop]

Is it +4? Oy.

+4, but then the hatchet has a -1 modifier, and a sword a -2 modifier.  so your TN would be Piloting+movement+target movement+terrain+4-modifier.

So pilot 5 who ran attaching a +2 movement enemy in the clear with a hatchet on the punch table would be 5+2+2+0+4-1 = 11, vs 7 to hit anywhere.   The sword is a better option with the -2.

[Crackerb0x]

My memory is failing wildly; does the hatchet and the sword use punch table on standard hits or the standard hit location table?

[dragonkid11]

My memory is failing wildly; does the hatchet and the sword use punch table on standard hits or the standard hit location table?

Standard hit table.

Come to think of it, is there any canon melee mech design with AES to further boost accuracy?

[RoundTop]

Standard hit table.

Come to think of it, is there any canon melee mech design with AES to further boost accuracy?

Yes. The Mortis. http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Mortis

That said, it doesn't have TSM for the ultimate beast mode, but it does mount AES on the hatchet arm, and on the Heavy PPC arm.

[Brakiel]

Yes. The Mortis. http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Mortis

That said, it doesn't have TSM for the ultimate beast mode, but it does mount AES on the hatchet arm, and on the Heavy PPC arm.

To be clear, it's not just that it "doesn't" have TSM, it's that it cannot have TSM. AES and TSM (and MASC) are mutually exclusive upgrades.

Personally, I probably would take TSM over AES all the time, as far as it pertains to enhancing a melee design. The damage increase is significant at the low end of the weight spectrum, where a 30 tonner with a Hatchet or 45 tonner with a Sword can threaten a headcap. And at the heavier weight classes, AES becomes a significant tonnage and crits investment to use with most melee weapons.

[Weirdo]

AES + Sword might be good for escort designs. Light and fast backstabber types will give it a wide berth, for fear of that pulse-thwap.

[RoundTop]

AES + Sword might be good for escort designs. Light and fast backstabber types will give it a wide berth, for fear of that pulse-thwap.

I'd gladly give up my 2 rear facing ER Medium lasers on my No-Dachi 2KO to mount AES on the Sword arm.  a 9 hex moving TSM beast with a -3 to hit sword :)

[Banzai]

I'd gladly give up my 2 rear facing ER Medium lasers on my No-Dachi 2KO to mount AES on the Sword arm.  a 9 hex moving TSM beast with a -3 to hit sword :)

Unfortunately AES can't be mounted with TSM (or MASC or TCs.)

[RoundTop]

Unfortunately AES can't be mounted with TSM (or MASC or TCs.)

:( of course. That would be too cheese.

Ok, so....  Hatchetman 5k (sword variant), needs 1.5t for the AES. So the arm mounted medium pulses become ER Mediums, AES added to the sword arm, and the C3 slave replaced with Guardian ECM.

[Kit deSummersville]

Unfortunately AES can't be mounted with TSM (or MASC or TCs.)

Nor can it be mounted on a heavy 'Mech for a mere 2 tons.  :P

[Brakiel]

Nor can it be mounted on a heavy 'Mech for a mere 2 tons.  :P

For a 70-ton No-Dachi, it can. It's mech tonnage / 35, rounded up to the half ton.

[Boomer8]

Unfortunately AES can't be mounted with TSM (or MASC or TCs.)

No TC? I'd rather use a TC with TSM and Supercharger, say on a 50 ton chassis with a 6/9/6 or better move profile. Hatchet or sword, that'll hurt badly.

[Iceweb]

Yeah no stacking hit mods with AES and TC  I understand why. 
Of course AES is just about the only way to get a hit bonus with missiles so... 

Anyways one thing that works is an AES enhancing a vibroblade on a lighter faster mech. 
I did a custom for that, but I am unaware of any canon units that use the combo, again my search fu is weak.

[Fat Guy]

Why did wob put two on a nyx. That's what I want to know

Because of this:

[Retry]

I'd struggle to call stacking bonuses for melee weapons (AES+TSM+Vibro or whatever) cheesy, no matter how many.  You're spending a whole lot of weight and space to bring a knife to a gunfight.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Yes. The Mortis. http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Mortis

That said, it doesn't have TSM for the ultimate beast mode, but it does mount AES on the hatchet arm, and on the Heavy PPC arm.

There's also the Doloire D that mounts a Large Vibroblade.

[Nastyogre]

Every mech with two hands should deploy with a large club slung on a hip. If you have to get in tight, WHAM!

[AJC46]

from my rules understanding a inactive vibroblade is treated like a normal sword for damage so potentially one can stick a small/medium vibroblade on on mechs and keep it off as the inactive blade does more damage than the active mode eating less weight and crits than a normal sword.

[Daryk]

That does appear to be an open loophole, but I'm not sure it's worth it.  A minimum of 3 tons for +1 damage over a punch?  ???

[Xotl]

That's been addressed via errata as I recall.

[AJC46]

That's been addressed via errata as I recall.

i know of no errata with inactive mech vibroblades although i think i pointed this out years ago and suggested a errata to close it.

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=18397.msg415284#msg415284 yeah i did but but not in the errata section

[Xotl]

It's literally the only errata entry for vibroblades.  Damage inactivated is capped at the damage it can do activated.

[Daryk]

Uh, can you provide a link please?  When I went searching, I found this errata, but it doesn't answer this particular question...

[Xotl]

The standard TO errata doc.  Is the link dead?

[Daryk]

Ah, there it is... bottom of page 52.  Thanks!

[Empyrus]

It's literally the only errata entry for vibroblades.  Damage inactivated is capped at the damage it can do activated.

Man i just noticed this and...
This hurts the Uraeus alot. A TSM 'Mech whose melee weapon can deal 10 pts at most, regardless of TSM status. Hilariously, its TSM punch is actually better than the medium vibroblade.
OK, there are other benefits but still...