MechWarrior 5 is Alive!

[worktroll]

Hey OP.  What you did with the title?  I see it.

Need input? ;)

[solmanian]

Also Protomechs are only 1 level tall (maximum cap of call it 8 meters for the big ones) and people should be coming to the waist or taller on them.  Imagining them the size of that Cyclops (~10-14 meters, depending on the size of the guy and how far away the 'Mech is) is unfortunately just plain wrong.  Which isn't to say that you can't play them like that at your table, just realize that your table and what is published do not match up.

Well, I'm looking at this pics:

Compared to that Cyclops pic, they seem very comparable. Smaller, perhaps, but not 10 times smaller.

[Scotty]

My 'waist or taller' was in error, but you can also see pretty clearly that those people are 1/3 to 1/4 the size of the Protomech.  Compare to that Cyclops, where it's easily five or six times taller. 

[Sid]

Well, I'm looking at this pics:

Compared to that Cyclops pic, they seem very comparable. Smaller, perhaps, but not 10 times smaller.

Those are what I've always understood Protomechs to be.  The Erinyes and Procyon are roughly three times the height of the humans pictured.

That puts them at roughly 6 metres, which is one "level" in game, and about as tall as a two story building.  Their heads are also smaller than the pictured humans, as Protomechs are stated to be able to barely fit a human inside their torsos.

Which, again, the artwork seem to depict.

The Hobgoblin is a bit hard to tell as it's leaning forward and walking, but it looks like it'd be about 4 people tall-  making it 8 metres.  It's an "ultra heavy" Proto, and essentially an ultralight Battlemech anyway.

"Most" 'Mechs I've understood to be around 9~12m tall (making them 3-4 building stories) and 50~100% taller than the Protomechs featured.

So a human's head should come up to the upper shin, and they should be able to reach up and touch the the kneecap area on many 'mechs.

 

[worktroll]

Height is a measurement in a single dimension, whereas weight is relative to volume, which is three dimensional.

Short form: twice the height, eight times the volume assuming all other things (density, shapes, etc) are the same.

Flip that. Let's say the average humanoid 'Mech is 10m tall. Let's arbitrarily peg that at 70 tons for a humanoid Grasshopper. So a 20 ton Wasp would be on the order of (cube root of 20/70) or .65 times the height, or 6.5m. A 50 ton Enforcer would be 8.9,m while a 100-ton Atlas would be 11.2m.

Of course, these are all real spitball figures, and there's insufficient canon consistency to do much more. But in simplest form, a 'Mech half the weight of another design will be on the order of 80% the height of the larger 'Mech.

W.

[Wrangler]

Can only hope it's done better than the grinder game MWO is. 

The pace of MWO game play is bit too much for me to really get into.  Hopefully this will be better.

I hope the graphics improve, the Union dropship look so shiny... #P

I'm glad someone making another stab at a stand alone game!  O0

[Bren]

That Cyclops might look short but I'm sure we could stand 6 of that guy next to it to show a good 12 meters. 2 meters would be roughly 6 feet.

[Empyrus]

Bren's measuring of the guy is a bit off i think (look at the feet), it is close enough the Cyclops is clearly too short.

Or, well, the man is actually a giant, because if you try to fit him in the cockpit...

I really like Loose's art and style but he didn't always quite get perspective and sizes right...

[Bren]

Bren's measuring of the guy is a bit off i think (look at the feet) ...

True, but he's not standing completely straight either so I figured it was a wash. :)

[Peter Smith]

I'm not convinced it's a good thing.  It's not the battletech I grew up with.

Good thing we're not talking about the new BattleTech PC game, rather the MechWarrior PC game.

[Siden Pryde]

The size difference between tabletop and MWO designs does not bother me in the slightest.  It is a stylistic choice, that is all.  So long as the mechs look great and the game is fun, I can easily forgive scale discrepancies. 

Plus, uping the scale is also about the only way a lot of designs work as originally drawn.  A Stinger at 12m still probably still wouldn't be able to fit a cockpit in its head, forget about it working at the 6 - 8 meters a light Mech is supposed to be.  So the MWO designers bump up the scale, widen things up a bit, get it to work.  I'm okay with that.

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

My main worry is not scale. But that they will bring MWO prejudices into this game. I woould like an effective fire support griffon. Meaning LRMS work and laser fire does not mean ghost heat (or whatever it is they replaced it with) over spiking the heat levels on a mech. If this ends up being one player Dakka warrior I will not buy it.

[elf25s]

*sigh*
before complaining and spitting grinded down teeth lets wait and see...after all t had been at least 15 years since last bt game.
as for alpha vid? remember that its just alpha and not semi final product. it only shows what roughly they want the game and visual they want the game to be.

[CrossfirePilot]

yes and I feel the same as I do when people say the Vikings are going to the superbowl...

[Caedis Animus]

My main worry is not scale. But that they will bring MWO prejudices into this game. I woould like an effective fire support griffon. Meaning LRMS work and laser fire does not mean ghost heat (or whatever it is they replaced it with) over spiking the heat levels on a mech. If this ends up being one player Dakka warrior I will not buy it.

I don't think any Griffin in MWO besides the Sparky can actually have a loadout capable of generating ghost heat.

[NeonKnight]

*sigh*

I'm gonna say this here, as I said it elsewhere, but it need repeating...

WHY DO PEOPLE WANT BT THEMED GAMES TO FAIL?

seriously, I see folks all over the forums kvetch and moan about how we don't have a BT themed Single Player Shooter ala the old MW1-4 series, and now the people that have the license are trying to make such a game all we seem to be able to do is complain and 'secretly' hope they fail. Why? What good will come of it?

If PGI Fails at making MW5, do people honestly think Microsoft is going to willing hand over the license to another developer? NO, they can't as PGI has exclusive rights to it for x-number of years, so this is likely it for the next 5-10 years. If it fails as people seem to hope, kiss your dreams of seeing another developer get a crack at it in any time frame.

Just like I know it will be at least 5-10 years to see a decent Fantastic 4 movie, because as long as 20th Century Fox continues to churn out crap pictures every few years, they will retain the license.

So, rather that chime in that this game need to fail, how about we all hope they do great, and it gives us BT fans another version of a franchise we all seem to love a new way to play and get our Giant Stompy Robot fix.

[Wrangler]

Does it sound like the game is only going be on one planet or is it suppose to be structured like old MW1 where your hopping around the galaxy?

[worktroll]

I'm gonna say this here, as I said it elsewhere, but it need repeating...

WHY DO PEOPLE WANT BT THEMED GAMES TO FAIL?

Ask rather "why do people who love thing X (eg. BT) get upset when people who say they love thing X, diverge from thing X in the process?"

Yes, translation from board to computer requires changes. But why change the lore, when it's the lore that makes thing X as appealing as it is?

So you change the art. Well, I don't have to like it. So you change the backstory. And then start introducing your own equipment, your own astrography, etc etc.

(See also the movie of "I, Robot")

W>

[NeonKnight]

Ask rather "why do people who love thing X (eg. BT) get upset when people who say they love thing X, diverge from thing X in the process?"

Yes, translation from board to computer requires changes. But why change the lore, when it's the lore that makes thing X as appealing as it is?

So you change the art. Well, I don't have to like it. So you change the backstory. And then start introducing your own equipment, your own astrography, etc etc.

(See also the movie of "I, Robot")

W>

But what exactly are they changing? This I don't understand. Is it the size of the mechs, because if so, I have always seen the mechs are largish things.

[Empyrus]

'Mech size changes are gratuitous. If they were born of pragmatism like the looks MWO 'Mechs have (new art for a video game) or for actual gameplay reasons (making lights smaller to buff them), i would accept that even if i don't like it. As it is, MWO has small light 'Mechs but other size changes are complete nonsense, and carrying them over to a single player game isn't nice (OK, it saves time and resources to use the 'Mechs as they are for MW5 but that doesn't justify the original change).

As it is, the change is there for change's sake, to satisfy some non-existent mandate that modern 'Mechs should be larger than how BattleTech depicts them.
BT 'Mechs are roughly 8 to 14 meters tall, have always been. There was no any good reason to change things radically (and yes, 50% increase in assault 'Mech sizes is radical) for MWO.

I am, have been and will be a purist (well, almost anyway), no matter the franchise. Never liked changes in adaptations or sequels or the like, not unless change is there to fix something or done for actually good reasons. Unfortunately most changes in things seem to be done on a whim and not for any good reason.

[Peter Smith]

*sigh*

I'm gonna say this here, as I said it elsewhere, but it need repeating...

WHY DO PEOPLE WANT BT THEMED GAMES TO FAIL?

The old "I'm not happy, so I'm going to make damned sure the rest of you are not happy as well." attitude. I have yet to see anybody justify that position.

[CrossfirePilot]

The old "I'm not happy, so I'm going to make damned sure the rest of you are not happy as well." attitude. I have yet to see anybody justify that position.

The FAA's unofficial slogan is "we're not happy until you're not happy" :D

[NeonKnight]

'Mech size changes are gratuitous. If they were born of pragmatism like the looks MWO 'Mechs have (new art for a video game) or for actual gameplay reasons (making lights smaller to buff them), i would accept that even if i don't like it. As it is, MWO has small light 'Mechs but other size changes are complete nonsense, and carrying them over to a single player game isn't nice (OK, it saves time and resources to use the 'Mechs as they are for MW5 but that doesn't justify the original change).

As it is, the change is there for change's sake, to satisfy some non-existent mandate that modern 'Mechs should be larger than how BattleTech depicts them.
BT 'Mechs are roughly 8 to 14 meters tall, have always been. There was no any good reason to change things radically (and yes, 50% increase in assault 'Mech sizes is radical) for MWO.

I am, have been and will be a purist (well, almost anyway), no matter the franchise. Never liked changes in adaptations or sequels or the like, not unless change is there to fix something or done for actually good reasons. Unfortunately most changes in things seem to be done on a whim and not for any good reason.

I know...those durn MWO people...screwing with our MECH sizes...making them so huge ;)

http://i.imgur.com/g7JDxEu.png

The 'tallest' mech on that chart is also only topping out at 18 meters, certainly not a 50% size increase. That would only be a 29% size increase. ;)

[worktroll]

The old "I'm not happy, so I'm going to make damned sure the rest of you are not happy as well." attitude. I have yet to see anybody justify that position.

Straw man, and dismissive. I must have missed the email appointing the ultimate arbiter of things that are Undeniably Correct ...

Am I not allowed an opinion "I don't like what X is doing"? Because there's many things I don't like in MWO. Given the same people are doing MW5, and as the art style - one of my concerns - is explicitly being re-used, I should be singing hosannas?

Doesn't mean you can't enjoy it. But why should I have to sacrifice my opinion? Or does my opinion prevent you from enjoying your opinion?

[pheonixstorm]

Opinions are like... oh nevermind... Lets just continue bashing a game most of us will probably get regardless  #P

[CrossfirePilot]

Opinions are like... oh nevermind... Lets just continue bashing a game most of us will probably get regardless  #P

or one that will go through a duke nukem 4 (?) development cycle and never be released. 

[pheonixstorm]

Still better than the hype release of Battlecruiser 3000 AD. Anyone remember THAT fiasco?? Publisher got fed up with the developer taking so long they pushed it out the door in an Alpha state.

[Empyrus]

I know...those durn MWO people...screwing with our MECH sizes...making them so huge ;)

http://i.imgur.com/g7JDxEu.png

The 'tallest' mech on that chart is also only topping out at 18 meters, certainly not a 50% size increase. That would only be a 29% size increase. ;)

Atlas is suppose to be about 12 meters in canon (making it somewhat short for an assault) yet is 18 in MWO? 12x1.5=18. Should have said up to 50%, probably.

Canon heights don't necessarily follow "assaults are biggest" paradigm either, like MWO does.
The Summoner is roughly tallest standard 'Mech there is at 14 meters... Ironically MWO got that right BUT heavies in MWO are too tall usually anyway when the Summoner should stand taller than others.

[Acolyte]

Am I not allowed an opinion "I don't like what X is doing"? Because there's many things I don't like in MWO. Given the same people are doing MW5, and as the art style - one of my concerns - is explicitly being re-used, I should be singing hosannas?

Ya, I'm going to wait for reviews before touching this game. If it is what they say it is, I'm in and it's exactly the game I've been waiting for. However, nothing from PGI is a pre-order for me.

As to the size aspect, this is one of the most annoying problems with MWO and it's now creeping into other games (notably HBS's BattleTech and now this one). My hope is for a strong modding community and a "BattleTech sized 'Mechs" (shrink the 'Mechs as necessary and speed up the movement to compensate) mod, followed closely by a "classics" mod to replace all the PGI Unseen with the new, much better (IMO) art.

   - Shane

[Wrangler]

Has there been price set for this? I didn't see it on the website initially when i looked.