BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat
BattleTech Game Universe => The Inner Sphere => Topic started by: Col.Hengist on 07 January 2016, 14:13:25
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Here it is Ladies and Gentlemen. Pull up a seat by the fireplace. The Butler will be around shortly with Cognac and cigars.
Make sure to wear your best Social General uniforms, speak of the important topics of the day ( or past glories ) and tell us who has the best parties.
Remember my Facebook page; Friends of the Lyran Commonwealth also. If you get a chance,stop by there also. We have plenty of parking for every one's Atlii!
#STEINER!!!
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Hooray, first reply and first post viewer! Good title.
Make sure to wear your best Social General uniforms, speak of the important topics of the day ( or past glories ) and tell us who has the best parties.
Don't forget, "please leave your Lyran light 'Mech memes at the door" as well.
First up, what's everyone's favorite timeframe to get their Steiner on in?
Second up, since it's a new thread, a proper rundown of the strategic situation would be very nice. From what little I understand, the Falcons and Wolves both hit Tharkad, the Wolves were victorious but buggered off somewhere else, and Alaric is claiming to be Archon. Anyone seen (or made) a good 3150 map with just what's LEFT for the Commonwealth?
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Second poster and TAGged for future artillery strikes.
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Yes, please leave the Lyran scout lance of atlaii meme at the door, or orbital insertion etc. They're really played out, about 20 years ago.
Favorite time frame to play Steiner in? Hmmmm, that's a hard one. I love the gritty 3/4 th SW era. We still had good production and lots of territory.
Fall of the SL right after Kerensky left looks appealing to me, but haven't had many games there.
I really like the age of war primitive stuff that we have. The Ymir is a monster and only gets better ( try the X1 in AS play), the Dervish is another as is the funky commando.
Then there's always the civil war, which is always fun. I've had some good games against our Davion Cousins...
I guess, if I had to narrow it down to one it would be 3/4th SW era up to 39. That was a great time.
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Favorite time to play Steiner? Tail end of the Clan Invasion era, we had all the cool toys.
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Favorite time to play Steiner has to be the late 3rd or 4th Succession War although i'm looking forwards to playing in the 1st Succession War as well.
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Nice title; good choice! O0
The spelling is Götterdämmerung, though. ;)
First up, what's everyone's favorite timeframe to get their Steiner on in?
3028-3045: the military is reformed thanks to Katrina, the equipment is the best there is, the Kell Hounds and the Grey Death, the LCAF freed Rasalhague... so many good things. Some setbacks, too, but overall it is a good time. (Btw., although Davion gets all the praise for the 4th SW, it also gets all the hate).
Second up, since it's a new thread, a proper rundown of the strategic situation would be very nice. From what little I understand, the Falcons and Wolves both hit Tharkad, the Wolves were victorious but buggered off somewhere else, and Alaric is claiming to be Archon. Anyone seen (or made) a good 3150 map with just what's LEFT for the Commonwealth?
A quick rundown of the events after Tharkad:
3145 - Falcons and Wolves are provoced into fighting each other on Hesperus II, exhaust themselves, and then Operation Jotunheim (led by the 23rd Arcturans) reclaims the planet for the Commonwealth. So far the greatest DA victory.
3146 - Arc-Royal falls to the Falcons, the Kell Hounds are largely destroyed and venture to the Periphery (mission unknown)
3147 - Buena tries to secede; Falcon worlds are attacked by an unknown force
3148 - the Buena secession is crushed (Operation Kingbreaker); Coventry is under Falcon attack, Roderic Steiner meets them with a battlegroup
Note that our information for the events after 3145 is extremely fragmentary so far. No map.
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Roderick is Adam's Son? Or grandson?
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Grandson. He went under the name Robert Frost until the events of Fire At Will because he wanted to earn military positions on his own merit instead of through political connections.
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Good to know Buena doesn't get away, hopefully we can force the Falcons away from Coventry.
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3147 - ... Falcon worlds are attacked by an unknown force
I presume this has to be from one of the TRO:3150 entries. I didn't pick up on this little tidbit... all I can think of is Operation NOYAN but we know that's Hells Horses. Which entry or entries are you alluding to?
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I presume this has to be from one of the TRO:3150 entries. I didn't pick up on this little tidbit... all I can think of is Operation NOYAN but we know that's Hells Horses. Which entry or entries are you alluding to?
The/one group attacking the Falcons is called Grave Mold, appearing six months after Arc Royal fell. (see: Di multipurpose VTOL). Also there is an entry regarding the Kelswa Tank about "the same mysterious force which hit several other Falcon worlds in the region". Perhaps there is a relation to the Kell Hounds, which are known to have raided Falcon worlds on their way to the Periphery.
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Considering the founding Kells took a ride around the Periphery with Katrina around 3005-3006 before her big return, I'm wondering if it's not the same thing. Maybe whoever's running the remains of the Hounds found Morgan's diary or something. Even if they didn't find any kind of major facilities or stockpiles, clearly they had to have found somewhere comfy to live for a while that could have given the Kell Hounds time to heal up and plan their return.
Damn Kell cockroaches.
So yeah - next question, what's everyone's favorite unit and why? We all have something we love about our regimental affiliation, so fire up your explanations! I'll grab the 15th Lyran Regulars, because a backwoods periphery-guard which actually fits the meme of a Lyran Wall Of Steel amused me - and then I found out they actually have a pretty solid record despite being a D-ranked unit even up to the Jihad. They even survive until 3145, and aren't a big prestige or parade force - just a Regulars regiment doing their hob, saving the day, and being big damn heroes on Melissia. And yeah, I like big mechs, there's no argument there, I'm just well aware they have their limitations. So I'll throw my hat in for the Bullyboys.
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I think my favorite is the 3rd Lyran Guards post-Jihad. They've probably got the typical Wall of Steel doctrine going around but with a little bonus that drew me to them. They trained for YEARS to prepare to liberate Tharkad from the Word of Blake, which apparently translated to skill with combat drops. Can you say Assault-grade "Goomba stomp"? From orbit? ;D
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Let's see...
23rd Arcturan Guards
(http://i.imgur.com/R5XdWSk.png)
I like cold weather experts and they have a cool name and insignia. Also the long, long history of the brigade and their insistance on keeping old traditions like recruiting from Arcturus appeal to me.
3rd Lyran Guards
(http://i.imgur.com/j0tZWKJ.png)
I like the fancy tradition of carrying a sword. And the unit's history is remarkable, too. (Yeah, combat drop to liberate Tharkard, indeed!)
10th Skye Rangers
(http://i.imgur.com/MkihCnt.png)
I like those troublesome people. This is a classical love&hate relationship. Even though they rebel every few years, I cannot be mad at them. And they kick ass for the LCAF in case they happen to be loyal for a while.
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Initially I liked the 10th LG. Yea, the Archons unit.
Then the 6th LG. I liked their history.
Then the 6th Donegal Guards until their destruction and being dispersed into the 7th and 2nd.
Now, it's probably the 2nd Donegal Guards. Caesar Steiner is and always was a bad ass.
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Saucy Sixth all the way!
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Looking on Sarna it doesn't say anything about the Grave Mold. Is there anything more about this group or are they kind of like the Green Ghosts?
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Looking on Sarna it doesn't say anything about the Grave Mold. Is there anything more about this group or are they kind of like the Green Ghosts?
More of that they're basically brand new and there's nothing to say about them
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First Sergeant is here with the Saucy Sixth! (Remember this old avatar?)
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Caesar Steiner is and always was a bad ass.
Right. He has a long and proud service history, although I think his greatest action was to call a ceasefire during the FCCW and concentrate on defeating the Free Skye Forces. It is a testimony to his leadership that the staunchly loyalist 2nd Donegal followed his bidding, gave up Giausar, and saved Hesperus II for the Alliance. Like Adam Steiner he did what was best for the Lyran state, rather than what is best for the leaders of the Lyran state. He is probably the greatest General of the LCAF/LAAF in the 31st century (with all due respect to Adam).
Anyway, what is the appeal of the 6th Lyran Guards?
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They were a totally badass unit that was very effective in Clanbusting actions.
Also, their unit insignia (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/File:Lyranguards06th.png).
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The 6th have an interesting history...
So many people like to mock the cartoon and everything in it. It is what it is, and if it helped bring people in to the game, awesome.
Be that as it may... Adam is a great general and one hell of a Mech pilot. As Archon I think he did his best with what was given him.
Besides, we all know who the greatest General of all is... THOMAS HOGARTH!!!
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Blah.
Hogarth jokes are as stale as Lyran Scout Mech jokes are.
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Anyway, what is the appeal of the 6th Lyran Guards?
They also get a D6 worth of edge points every game. 8)
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First up, what's everyone's favorite timeframe to get their Steiner on in?
Dark Age, of course. The battle armor choices are just too tempting. The mechs and tanks... meh, but the battle armor... much awesome. I could even go 3080s or 3090s. Having the Thunderfox L8 helps sell any era to me.
FCCW is kind of fun, too simply because of the overt "Lyranism" of the time. LAAF big guns vs AFFC RACs is entertaining all these years later.
Favorite unit.... hmmmm. Might be the Skye Jaegers. Their split loyalties make them interesting to me. Besides, the Jaegers are a fun brigade.
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Two questions, if I may:
1) Now that Empires Aflame has been out for over a year, has there been any further reflection among Steiner fans on what to make of the various options which seem to be on the table for the EA Commonwealth as of alt-3095?
2) Are the BT Lyrans pronounced as "Lear-uhns" (akin to the Star Fleet Universe Lyrans), or as "Lie-runs"?
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Leer-an
As far as empies a flame...never read it.
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10th Lyran Regulars for me, love the name and story behind the unit and the fact they have always tried to do what is best for the nation over any particular faction.
They had a good combat record as well, until there destruction on Tharkad fighting the clans.
Hopefully they'll be back soon.
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I like the ease of consideration of the 3rd/4th Succession War, though for some real battles nothing says Hello Tharkad like the Clan invasion. That said, I'm liking the 15th Regulars even more, after reading up on their amusing acquisition in FM 3145. I think I'll roll with the AHRG as my own pet company...now to decide what to fit them out with. A KGC-0000 of course, just because I love King Crabs, but what else to roll with?
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As far as eras go, I've mostly used Lyrans in the early Clan Invasion and Late Succession Wars. Been tempted to do something for the Jihad or Dark Age eras. Waiting to see if any DA Lyran mechs make it onto the release list for Ironwinds this year.
For units, I've always been fond of the Skye Rangers. Was kinda sad to see them absorbed into the RAF.
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Banshees for some speed
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For units, I've always been fond of the Skye Rangers. Was kinda sad to see them absorbed into the RAF.
Agreed. Interestingly, the Skye Jäger remained part of the LCAF only to have their loyalty questioned and being disbanded. Too bad, they were my favourite Jäger, although the Coventry Jäger with their bravado and fury (misguided as it may have been) impressed me, too.
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For units, I've always been fond of the Skye Rangers. Was kinda sad to see them absorbed into the RAF.
I want to believe it was residual resentment towards the Alliance for putting down the Skye rebellions, but chances are they were absorbed for the same reason everyone else was absorbed. The rank and file troops had no choice. The Kelswa-Steiners were thrilled by joining the Republic and likely helped the process along.
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Good point about the decades of unrest in the region. I'm sure the Kelswa-Steiners got a good deal out of it, getting their own Prefecture to rule along with protection from Stone's forces. The grass looking greener helped justify it as closer to choosing their own path than being told what to do by Tharkad. Even if Skye had stuck with the Lyrans, it's unlikely they would have seen any provincial regiments rebuilt or reformed by the LAAF.
Still gonna miss the Skye Rangers in future settings. I always liked their tenacity and conflicted loyalties.
I like the ease of consideration of the 3rd/4th Succession War, though for some real battles nothing says Hello Tharkad like the Clan invasion. That said, I'm liking the 15th Regulars even more, after reading up on their amusing acquisition in FM 3145. I think I'll roll with the AHRG as my own pet company...now to decide what to fit them out with. A KGC-0000 of course, just because I love King Crabs, but what else to roll with?
A mock-up of Frederick Steiner's Atlas might be appropriate for a museum piece. The Zeus, Hatchetman, and Commando aren't bad choices either. When the new classics becomes available, a mock-up of Angela Franks' Battlemaster would be another option.
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A mock-up of Frederick Steiner's Atlas might be appropriate for a museum piece. The Zeus, Hatchetman, and Commando aren't bad choices either. When the new classics becomes available, a mock-up of Angela Franks' Battlemaster would be another option.
Those three True Lyran designs, definitely. A blue Warhammer as well, to shoutout to Katrina Steiner. I was half thinking of an Orion and Dragon as well, just to have an opfor to "reenact" against. Shame they don't have a Clan 'mech to reenact against. :))
And then of course modifying them with salvage as I go, because that's just fun! Though honestly they'll probably all get horribly destroyed...
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#STEINER
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And Skumm shows up give us the # ! Lol yes #STEINER!!!
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OK. Looking at the entry in the DI Morgan. Looks like it doesn't say a whole lot about Grave Mold. Cool tactics though
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Those three True Lyran designs, definitely. A blue Warhammer as well, to shoutout to Katrina Steiner. I was half thinking of an Orion and Dragon as well, just to have an opfor to "reenact" against. Shame they don't have a Clan 'mech to reenact against. :))
And then of course modifying them with salvage as I go, because that's just fun! Though honestly they'll probably all get horribly destroyed...
The OpFor mechs are a good idea. If you don't mind Greenburging it, you can bolt some fake arms on a Catapult and paint it in Falcon colors.
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Or fake missile boxes on a marauder, but the catapult DOES look closer overall.
Okay, so King Crab, Atlas, Warhammer, Zeus, Orion, Catapult, Dragon, Hatchetman, Commando. That leaves 3; I'll claim a Griffin for Steiner loyalty, an Archer for 'everyone has an Archer,' aaaand...a Hunchback perhaps. That makes an interesting batch of lances; KC, Atlas, HCT, and HBK in a close-attack lance, WHM, Zeus, Orion, and Archer as a fire lance, Catapult, Commando, Dragon, and Griffin for a 'mobile' lance - they either jump or go 5/8. Or swap the Orion and Catapult...
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I'm sure the Kelswa-Steiners got a good deal out of it, getting their own Prefecture to rule along with protection from Stone's forces. The grass looking greener helped justify it as closer to choosing their own path than being told what to do by Tharkad. Even if Skye had stuck with the Lyrans, it's unlikely they would have seen any provincial regiments rebuilt or reformed by the LAAF.
This tension plays out in the Dark Age in a comical way. Prior to the Jade Falcon Desant there are protests and counter protests between pro-Republic and pro-Lyran groups on Skye, with a tiny minority advocating independence. That struck me as sort of funny, because the historical desire for independence was always anti-Lyran. The Republic had either subverted the anti-Lyran sentiment, or the Lyrans were taking the independence movement for their own purposes. At any rate, the image of a lone protester with a sign saying "Why not independence?" makes me chuckle.
But, the tenacity of Skye's population is still impressive. Tara Campbell led an ad hoc cannon fodder group against the Jade Falcons that included among other things, an ice cream truck.
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But, the tenacity of Skye's population is still impressive. Tara Campbell led an ad hoc cannon fodder group against the Jade Falcons that included among other things, an ice cream truck.
Please tell me the ice cream truck was playing "Don't Fear The Reaper."
Perhaps the attitude in Skye is more reactionary than independent? So years of Republic rule gave the citizenry something new to complain about? I'm also not sure how popular switching to the Republic was with the average person.
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Please tell me the ice cream truck was playing "Don't Fear The Reaper."
Against the Falcons it should have been playing "Turkey In The Straw."
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Please tell me the ice cream truck was playing "Don't Fear The Reaper."
There's a Biting Elbows song i'd like to suggest, but the word filter would shush me.
Perhaps the attitude in Skye is more reactionary than independent? So years of Republic rule gave the citizenry something new to complain about? I'm also not sure how popular switching to the Republic was with the average person.
It is a little more complicated than how is the public mood. One thing they make clear in the MWDA books is that the crowds are being manipulated by powerful media mogels who are taking their lead in turn from the Commonwealth. Prior to joining the Republic it was Ryan Steiner and Aldo Lestrade agitating for independence, along with Robert Kelswa-Steiner later.
Beyond that is the bad history between the Commonwealth and Syke. Going all the way back to Robert Marsden the Commonwealth has put down Skye with military force. The LIC watches the public for agitators and Loki terrorizes the people. It isn't hard to understand why there would be underlying discontent. The Republic on the other hand is at least an unknown future. For the people that went over to the Republic the memory of the LCAF/LAAF violently putting down their independence movements was still fresh in their minds.
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Ryan Steiner and Aldo stirring up trouble was, what 140 years prior to the current timeline? I don't think it was fresh in their minds.
The Robert Kelswa-Steiner times, for sure though. Jealous baby that he was.
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Ryan Steiner and Aldo stirring up trouble was, what 140 years prior to the current timeline? I don't think it was fresh in their minds.
Unless that chapter of history was entirely forgotten the narrative remains that the Archon has held power over Skye by use of force. Robert Marsden, the first Archon Basileus put down Skye and set a trend that continued into the present day. The Commonwealth was willing to acknowledge the Rasalhague independence movement as a strategic move to undermine the Draconis Combine (which of course backfired once Theodore recognized it for his own gain) but they weren't willing to acknowledge Skye independence. Hanse Davion's use of troops in the first Skye rebellion didn't help, either. It reinforced the narrative that no matter how much people on Skye want independence, even when they are willing to demonstrate it through rebellion, Robert Marsden's descendants will come down on them the same way he had come down on them before. The fundamental nature of the Tharkad-Skye relationship is one built on armed coercion.
The Robert Kelswa-Steiner times, for sure though. Jealous baby that he was.
Robert fascinated me to some extent. His enthusiasm for joining the Republic is at odds with historical independence movements. More likely he realized full independence was impossible as long as Tharkad was still in charge. Better to get some measure of say in a new system than one that has a proven track record of violence against you.
Sentimentalism is a powerful force, too. Prior to the Falcon Desant landing the pro-Lyran media was trading on "good ole days" ideas and trying to paint the Commonwealth as being more competant than the Republic. Of course, that's debatable. Both nations fell apart, and it would be fun to debate who fell further. The RAF was largely responsible for turning back the Falcons the first time and received few reinforcements. Meanwhile, the Lyrans brought in the full Stormhammers and a warship, but still lost to Malvina Hazen when she returned.
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The relationship between Skye and the Commonwealth is a little more complicated than Tharkad being an evil oppressor and Syke being the hapless oppressed. Rasalhague offers a good comparison as its people were eager to fight for the Lyrans against the Combine, and generally preferred Lyran rule if there had to be a foreign ruler. (Of course, they vastly preferred independence to both, Lyrans and Dracs).
The people of Skye would have never dreamed of fighting for the Combine against the Lyrans; in fact when not rebelling the Skye Brigade was considered a powerful force until Katherine Davion dissolved the 10th and turned the remaining Rangers into sink units. That is pretty much why the LCAF maintained the brigade: they knew, if push came to shove the Skye Rangers would fight alongside them against the foreign invaders, resulting in a proud LCAF service history.
To me it is not surprising that the 4th Skye Rangers and other Skye soldiers not only turned their backs to the Republic, but embraced their Lyran heritage. It seems Skye is slowly taking the Rasalhague stance: if there has to be an oppressor, he'd better be a Lyran.
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The relationship between Skye and the Commonwealth is a little more complicated than Tharkad being an evil oppressor and Syke being the hapless oppressed. Rasalhague offers a good comparison as its people were eager to fight for the Lyrans against the Combine, and generally preferred Lyran rule if there had to be a foreign ruler. (Of course, they vastly preferred independence to both, Lyrans and Dracs).
This isn't a straight up comparison. The fundamental difference in their independence movements was their value to Tharkad. Skye wanted general independence, both from the Combine and Commonwealth. That's why they had to be squashed. The Rasalhagian independence movement would rob the Dragon of worlds, whereas the Skye independence movement only hurt the Commonwealth. Recognizing Rasalhagian independence wasn't done out of some altruistic recognition of self determination. If it was, the exact same argument would apply to Skye being able to break way. Tharkad promoting Rasalhagian independence was just a cynical ploy to undermine the Dragon.
The people of Skye would have never dreamed of fighting for the Combine against the Lyrans; in fact when not rebelling the Skye Brigade was considered a powerful force until Katherine Davion dissolved the 10th and turned the remaining Rangers into sink units. That is pretty much why the LCAF maintained the brigade: they knew, if push came to shove the Skye Rangers would fight alongside them against the foreign invaders, resulting in a proud LCAF service history.
Again, not the same thing. The Draconis portion of the Rasalhague Republic was under Combine control for generations. The people of Skye had a die hard resistance against the Dragon most notably demonstrated in nuking their own planet to keep the Dracs away. A free Skye would be inclined to defend itself against the Dragon. But, it wouldn't take worlds away from the Dragon and couldn't be commanded to fight on behalf of the Commonwealth when needed, and therefor was of no value to Tharkad.
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A free Skye would do nothing but give more planets to DC and FWL. We would be in worse shape than we are now.
Then, once they were under attack from those two sides they would be calling for help. We would possibly not be in a position to do that. So it would take a lot of manpower and resources to regain the losses.
No, better to put down a rebellion before that happens. That's long sighted. The Skye separatists are very short sighted.
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A free Skye would do nothing but give more planets to DC and FWL. We would be in worse shape than we are now.
Then, once they were under attack from those two sides they would be calling for help. We would possibly not be in a position to do that. So it would take a lot of manpower and resources to regain the losses.
First, I think that is debatable. The Anduriens proved that independence does not automatically mean your traditional enemies are going to swallow you up.
And who knows what Skye could do with their tax Kroners going into domestic production instead of contracts going to Coventry, Loxley and such. If Free Skye had taken Hesperus II as planned imagine the output of that world not being divided among the Commonwealth and mercenary markets and instead feeding the Skye Rangers.
No, better to put down a rebellion before that happens. That's long sighted. The Skye separatists are very short sighted.
I get it from the perspective of the rest of the Commonwealth. But, to the people of Skye it is up to them to decide. Does the rest of the Commonwealth have the right to force Skye to remain part of the Commonwealth for the sake of the rest of the Commonwealth? Maybe. But since guns are more persuasive than moral arguments it doesn't really matter. Off with their heads.
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Of course the Rasalhague independence was not supported for purely altruistic reasons. I think that goes without saying in the BTU. So let us not waste time with such strawmen. ::)
My point is that Rasalhague was more than willing to side with a foreign power to overthrow their oppressors, even enlisting in the LCAF. Skye on the other hand was never willing to side with the Dracs or the League, and they have a proud history in fighting off these powers as loyal part of the LCAF. They knew Steiner was still a better option than any other house.
Up until the Republic came, Skye has always had the attitude that Lyran rule, while worse than independence, was better than any other rule. However, over time the experience with the Republic and the pro-Lyran movement seems to reaffirm the old attitude: if there has to be an oppressor, it should be a Lyran oppressor.
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Of course the Rasalhague independence was not supported for purely altruistic reasons. I think that goes without saying in the BTU. So let us not waste time with such strawmen. ::)
It isn't strawman. To the people of Skye this meant everything. Why the Rasalhagians and not Skye? Was Tharkad forthcoming about how Rasalhague was just being used to combat the Dragon? Nope. People on Skye took up arms to fight their fellow countrymen because independence recognition mattered to them. Our out of character perspective on how self determination is a disregarded concept in BT doesn't matter in character to the people who are demanding independence.
My point is that Rasalhague was more than willing to side with a foreign power to overthrow their oppressors, even enlisting in the LCAF. Skye on the other hand was never willing to side with the Dracs or the League, and they have a proud history in fighting off these powers as loyal part of the LCAF. They knew Steiner was still a better option than any other house.
The Rasalhague population was also divided among the Commonwealth and Combine. Any argument made about how some Rasalhagians joined the LCAF can be countered by saying some Rasalhagians joined the DCMS. The Lyrans liked to believe the oppression narrative, but were surprised to find it wasn't that simple once Rasalhague got independence.
Up until the Republic came, Skye has always had the attitude that Lyran rule, while worse than independence, was better than any other rule. However, over time the experience with the Republic and the pro-Lyran movement seems to reaffirm the old attitude: if there has to be an oppressor, it should be a Lyran oppressor.
You know that the pro-Lyran attitude was artificially inflated by Tharkad, right? The Commonwealth had thrown resources into the pro-Lyran camp for years and even sent Loki agents to work with Jasek Kelswa-Steiner's Stormhammers. There were also rumors of some pro-Lyran demonstrators being stand ins manipulated to look like pro-Lyran sentiment was stronger than it really was. Say what you will about the Free Skye movements manipulations by Ryan Steiner and Aldo Lestrade, at least the people of Skye did their own fighting instead of bringing in foreigners to prop up their breakaway bid.
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The point is the comparison to Skye, highlighting the differences: The Rasalhague Regulars were staunchly loyal to the Dragon and against the independence of Rasalhague. The Skye Rangers were loyal to Tharkad as long as they fought against foreign powers, but they were also pro-Free Skye. That is an all important difference, as the loyalties of Skye's soldiers were not black-and-white, and could well include the Lyrans. Furthermore, people from Skye would not have dreamed of fighting for the Dragon to defeat the Lyrans, people from Rasalhague were more than ready to fight for the Lyrans to defeat the Dragon. That, too, is an all important difference.
I do not think the proud history in service of the Lyrans has been forgotten, nor that only the evil machinations of manipulative, LIC sponsored magnates brainwashed otherwise Republic-loving Skye cititzens. That seems more like a Republic propaganda narrative...
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First, I think that is debatable. The Anduriens proved that independence does not automatically mean your traditional enemies are going to swallow you up.
And who knows what Skye could do with their tax Kroners going into domestic production instead of contracts going to Coventry, Loxley and such. If Free Skye had taken Hesperus II as planned imagine the output of that world not being divided among the Commonwealth and mercenary markets and instead feeding the Skye Rangers.
I get it from the perspective of the rest of the Commonwealth. But, to the people of Skye it is up to them to decide. Does the rest of the Commonwealth have the right to force Skye to remain part of the Commonwealth for the sake of the rest of the Commonwealth? Maybe. But since guns are more persuasive than moral arguments it doesn't really matter. Off with their heads.
As I'm usually heard to say at SCA events... HEADS ON SPIKES!!!
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Furthermore, people from Skye would not have dreamed of fighting for the Dragon to defeat the Lyrans, people from Rasalhague were more than ready to fight for the Lyrans to defeat the Dragon. That, too, is an all important difference.
That is because the Dragon never made the same sort of manipulative ploy the Lyrans did in order to undermine the Combine. The Dragon was always very forthright about wanting to take over Skye. The Commonwealth was fine holding onto the worlds taken for 4 years after the 4th Succession War ended. It wasn't until Theordore recognized the FRR that the Commonwealth gave the worlds over.
I do not think the proud history in service of the Lyrans has been forgotten, nor that only the evil machinations of manipulative, LIC sponsored magnates brainwashed otherwise Republic-loving Skye cititzens. That seems more like a Republic propaganda narrative...
Skye's loyalties were always divided. There were always people from Skye Province who were perfectly loyal to the Commonwealth. There were also those that were loyal to Skye first and only. Those people, the Skye separatists never got a fair shake because regardless of the actual majority loyalty of the Skye population, the FedCom put down the Free Skye movement with force of arms. So, while I don't think there is anything absolutely compelling about the future of a free Skye, it should be up to the people of Skye to decide, not Tharkad or New Avalon. Then again, if that was true the entire Tyr movement would have never gotten off the ground.
There was evidence that Tharkad was meddling in Skye again in the Dark Age. The LIC had assisted Jasek with Towne and helped to form a regiment of his Stormhammers. But, the whole thing was put aside for a minute in order to try and stop Malvina Hazen.
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I would not call the loyalties of Skye divided, at least not in the sense that some were loyalists and some were secessionists. It is more like the majority had a dual loyalty, to Skye first and the Commonwealth second. Like the dual vassalage in the later Middle Ages, this kind of double allegiance could lead to trouble, and it did during the Skye Rebellions. But Tharkard was smart enough recognizing this did not mean a general "death-to-the-Lyrans" or "give-me-independence-or-give-me-death" mentally. On the contrary, it meant Tharkad could rely on Skye most of the times (again, much akin to the dual vassalage). Hence they did not disperse the Skye Brigade, did not close Sanglamore, etc. – although they perfectly knew these were prime sources for separatism.
Now you may say that is only because no foreign enemy ever tried to employ the separatists for their own goals. Perhaps, perhaps not. We will never know, and definite statements on that are epistemically impossible. It also should be noted that the ISA was not exactly competent in judging the Skye separatism. Prior to the 4th SW, they told Theodore the Syke Brigade would refuse to engage in offensive operations, only to have the 4th Skye Rangers dropping on his head. ;D
Lastly, it might well be Tharkad was meddling in Skye during the DA. It would have been illadvised and fairly unpatriotic not to support a pro-Lyran movement. The LIC was active in Clan territory too, supporting pro-Lyran forces. However you'd give the LIC too much credit if you really think they managed to spin-doctor a history of purely brutal oppression and mortal feud into a peace-and-flowers story.
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Now you may say that is only because no foreign enemy ever tried to employ the separatists for their own goals. Perhaps, perhaps not. We will never know, and definite statements on that are epistemically impossible.
We can know for sure. The Commonwealth supplied the Tyr movement. The Combine did not supply the Skye Rangers. The closest it came was mutual contact between Waterly, Ryan Steiner and Theodore Kurita. Waterly may have helped the FRR deal come about, but I don't recall any references to any promises that the Skye rebellion would kick off once Theodore recognized the FRR. Theodore and Waterly may have hoped for that and it ended up happening. It wasn't on the same level as arming the 1st Tyr, then taking over future Rasalhague worlds using the LCAF.
Lastly, it might well be Tharkad was meddling in Skye during the DA. It would have been illadvised and fairly unpatriotic not to support a pro-Lyran movement. The LIC was active in Clan territory too, supporting pro-Lyran forces. However you'd give the LIC too much credit if you really think they managed to spin-doctor a history of purely brutal oppression and mortal feud into a peace-and-flowers story.
I think that was the point. The face of the pro-Lyran movement looked strong and viable by design. The Archon was feeding Jasek intelligence, troops and eventually he got a warship from Hesperus II. It was way more than Terra was willing to supply for the defense of Skye. But, to be fair, Tara Campbell, the Highlanders and Steel Wolves managed to defeat Aleksandr Hazen. Jasek swooped in afterward and played on a good guy narrative, rescuing stranded Highlanders and raiding the Falcons on other worlds. Gregory Kelswa-Steiner and David McKinnon had it right. Jasek was trying to look good for bailing out the Republic after he had stripped the RAF garrisons in the first place. While Jasek was attacking places like Towne it was the Republic and the population of Skye that had to pay for his ambitions.
In reality it was a friendly takeover. Mellisa II wanted Skye back, but didn't want to directly confront the Republic over it. Better to supply this rebellious heir and make his movement seem more attractive than sending in the LCAF.
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We can know for sure. The Commonwealth supplied the Tyr movement. The Combine did not supply the Skye Rangers.
No, you cannot know for sure what the Skye Rangers would have done had the DraCom offered them aid, just because the Rasalhague resistance embraced the Lyran help. There are a million possible scenarios.
The fact that Aldo Lestrade's murder was rumoured to be Free Skye's vengeance for his dealings with Theodore pretty much indicates that Skye does not tolerate DraCom 'help'.
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We can probably safely theorize though that the Combine wouldn't have bothered spending much effort on covert aid to Skye rebels. To the Combine, they'll conquer what they conquer on the strength of their own Pillar of Steel. They don't need help from gaijin local yokels.
Whatever Combine "aid" that would have come to the Free Skye movement would have likely just been spent with the aim of keeping the Lyran military and intelligence apparatus too busy to focus on direct attempts to conquer the Commonwealth.
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Sure, I don't think there can be any controversy about the Combine's intentions. It is one of the reasons why Free Skye fighters had no problems riding to war with the Lyrans, contrary to the ISA's false predictions before the 4th SW which apparently overstated the hostility of Skye towards the Lyrans.
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Let us talk about the Royal Guards Brigade.
If I understand it correctly, the Royal Guards were not deployed against the Clans. Why? Especially the Third Royal Guards had a reputation of being the offensive arm of the Brigade, the trouble-shooter unit that goes whereever the LCAF need them to be. Certainly the Clan Invasion was a crisis which justified using at least the Third.
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Maybe it falls under being too important to be disposable? The 3rd was used in Bulldog, but that was arguably a more important statement than just tossing them into the Clan front. That's what mercs and Skye Rangers were for. Why the 3rd Royals were garrisoning Northwind on '57 instead of something more prestigious is also pretty strange.
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I am sorry, I should have specified I meant during the original Clan Invasion. As you said, the Third fought the Clans (and I agree that was probably more a symbolic gesture, since the hard work was done by the 11th Lyran Guards).
The 3rd Royal Guards on Northwind is a strange story, indeed. Especially the chronology is weird, since the Lyran Alliance was already declared and Lyran units were called back. The 3rd Royals still answered Victor, which is strange - to put it mildly. Funny enough, my German version of the novel Highlander Gambit calls the unit: "3. Royal Davion Guards RKG". Iit seems the translator of this novel was under the impression the 3rd Royal Guards were a Davion unit! I wonder what the English original says...
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Purely conjecture, but the Royals might have been held back in case things got even worse than they already were in the early invasion years. The FedCom was much more comfortable throwing mercs at the Clans, which is understandable when entire RCTs like the 8th Arcturan and the 12th Donegal were getting eaten.
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Maybe it falls under being too important to be disposable? The 3rd was used in Bulldog, but that was arguably a more important statement than just tossing them into the Clan front. That's what mercs and Skye Rangers were for. Why the 3rd Royals were garrisoning Northwind on '57 instead of something more prestigious is also pretty strange.
IIRC, Blane Pardoe said that when he was writing Highlander Gambit he originally used a Davion unit for that role, but then that unit got used in another novel (Operation Excalibur, maybe), so it got switched to the 3rd Royal Guard at the last minute.
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Purely conjecture, but the Royals might have been held back in case things got even worse than they already were in the early invasion years. The FedCom was much more comfortable throwing mercs at the Clans, which is understandable when entire RCTs like the 8th Arcturan and the 12th Donegal were getting eaten.
Possible. The negative moral effect of a Royal Guards regiment cut to pieces by the Clans would be considerable. On the other hand though, I cannot imagine the soldiers were all too happy seeing the flower of the LCAF sitting on Tharkad while they were butchered. And I doubt the Royals themselves were comfortable with their backseat.
In a way, this experience may explain their overzealous eagerness to fight on Northwind.
IIRC, Blane Pardoe said that when he was writing Highlander Gambit he originally used a Davion unit for that role, but then that unit got used in another novel (Operation Excalibur, maybe), so it got switched to the 3rd Royal Guard at the last minute.
It would make sense; in the book (at least in my translation) there are many direct and indirect references to Bradford and his unit being Davion, and everything falls into place thinking of the unit as FedSuns unit. I wonder why a Steiner unit took its place, though.
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It could be that they were holding them in reserve if the clans managed to try to take Tharkad.
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It would make sense; in the book (at least in my translation) there are many direct and indirect references to Bradford and his unit being Davion, and everything falls into place thinking of the unit as FedSuns unit. I wonder why a Steiner unit took its place, though.
I think it was a hasty, last minute switch and they didn't have much time to double-check things.
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I think it was a hasty, last minute switch and they didn't have much time to double-check things.
Also interesting that it wasn't changed to a different FedSuns unit. Curious if there was a directive to "villainize" Lyrans in the build-up to the FCCW. I remember the Lyrans being painted as aggressors in one of the Capellan civil war novels.
But from late Clan Invasion on, it looks like the 3rd Royal has some exciting times.
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The 3rd had some tough nuts to crack before the Clans, too. On Hesperus II they were central to battlegroup which repulsed Wolf's Dragoons, making them one of the few units to the defeat the pre-Invasion Dragoons; later they went toe to toe with the 2nd Sword of Light, a unit of at least equal prestige, skill, and fanaticism.
While it could be argued that the 1st and 2nd Royals were deployed in extreme emergency only, like the 1st on Dromini VI following Frederick's 10th, the 3rd Royals were always in the thick of the LCAF's struggle.
It would have made sense to keep the 1st and 2nd in reserve, even if there was no threat to Tharkad, but I do not see any reason for the 3rd not to be deployed. To me, the situation just screams for it.
Also interesting that it wasn't changed to a different FedSuns unit. Curious if there was a directive to "villainize" Lyrans in the build-up to the FCCW. I remember the Lyrans being painted as aggressors in one of the Capellan civil war novels.
Possible, but I suspect there was another reason: the 3rd Davion Guards were destroyed on Hesperus II by the GDL, and the events on Northwind happened at exactly the same time. Using another Davion Guards regiment on Northwind would have meant to destroy two of them in the same year, both defeated by mercs.
Ironically, I think the 3rd Davion Guards also are not the best choice, and perhaps both stories would have worked better had they switched roles with the 3rd Royal Guards.
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Possible, but I suspect there was another reason: the 3rd Davion Guards were destroyed on Hesperus II by the GDL, and the events on Northwind happened at exactly the same time. Using another Davion Guards regiment on Northwind would have meant to destroy two of them in the same year, both defeated by mercs.
Ironically, I think the 3rd Davion Guards also are not the best choice, and perhaps both stories would have worked better had they switched roles with the 3rd Royal Guards.
Ah! Now things start to make more sense, from a larger story perspective. The 3rd Davion Guards gets trashed on a Lyran world and the 3rd Royal Guards are wrecked on the FedSuns doorstep, far from the Clan front. Sounds like the kind of thing that fierce nationalists get riled up about during the build-up to the FCCW.
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Intriguing idea! From this point of view, the "strange" unit choices make perfect sense, indeed. Or it was the most ingenious couple of mistakes ever... In universe, I can truly imagine nationalists being angry about the destruction of some of their greatest units at the hands of mercs in battles which should not have been fought in the first place. Yes, that makes some sense.
PS: now you have done it. I began to like the 3rd Royals! I never liked the brigade, but now...
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Question: did the LCAF ever clash with the CCAF on a larger scale? I know there is Operation Guerrero, but the combat usually did not last long because of the Alliance's secession. Are there any other battles?
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Going off memory:
I seem to remember the AT1 rulebook mentioned a Steiner vs Liao raid.
I also want to say one of the Battles of Hesperus II was Liao raiding it.
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I tend to go with Lyran Regulars, as well ... usually the 10th, but as I play all the way through the Jihad, any of them work, as they were all Green and Tans.
As for mechs, I tend towards the Commandos, Razorbacks, and other fast units, to include a Blade purchased from the Republic. If you need support and recon, I have Locusts, and Jenners taken from their former owners, and put to a more honorable purpose. And I can back them with Bushwackers, and maybe a Griffin, or two. And of course, my Darts and Fireballs...
Nahuris
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Question: did the LCAF ever clash with the CCAF on a larger scale? I know there is Operation Guerrero, but the combat usually did not last long because of the Alliance's secession. Are there any other battles?
The 23rd Arcturan Guards got wrecked on Tikinov by Dai Da Chi in '67, but this wasn't really a major offensive either. Maybe in the 4th SW? Prior to the FedCom treaty, the Lyrans sold military hardware to the Capellans, so I don't think they interacted much.
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Going off memory:
I seem to remember the AT1 rulebook mentioned a Steiner vs Liao raid.
I also want to say one of the Battles of Hesperus II was Liao raiding it.
The Liao vs Steiner raid in AT1 is the "Close but no cigar" scenario... but no system is specified.
And it was McCarron's Big Mac that raided Hesperus II... so it wasn't technically the CCAF.
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The 23rd Arcturan Guards got wrecked on Tikinov by Dai Da Chi in '67, but this wasn't really a major offensive either.
... especially since the bulk of the 23rd had already left the planet.
However, the Civil War is a good hint nonetheless, since it left some Lyran regiments stranded in the FedSuns. The 4th and 8th Donegal Guards found themselves on the receiving end of Operation Thunderstrike. The 8th was almost wiped out by three attacking CCAF regiments on Kathil, and the 4th was destroyed on New Syrtis (quite an irony, as they had been fighting Hasek's troops in the Civil War).
But these actions are just a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, although the 4th did have a history of raiding the CapCon.
Too bad, I think a CCAF vs LCAF is a scenario which has a certain appeal to me, although I cannot explain what the appeal actually is...
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I tend to go with Lyran Regulars, as well ... usually the 10th, but as I play all the way through the Jihad, any of them work, as they were all Green and Tans.
As for mechs, I tend towards the Commandos, Razorbacks, and other fast units, to include a Blade purchased from the Republic. If you need support and recon, I have Locusts, and Jenners taken from their former owners, and put to a more honorable purpose. And I can back them with Bushwackers, and maybe a Griffin, or two. And of course, my Darts and Fireballs...
Nahuris
Dude, you just decided to make a Steiner unit a few weeks ago...
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Dude, you just decided to make a Steiner unit a few weeks ago...
I've played them before - finally decided to paint up the minis --- there is a reason I have 4 Commandos, a Razorback, 2 Fireballs, a Dart, and others in my collection....LOL
Nahuris
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Guten tag, gentlefolk! Need some Steiner-oriented wisdom for one of my mini builds. I've got an incoming shipment which will round off a number of my combined armour battalion builds, so time to start planning the next few months' shopping list.
So I've got what I think is a nice Clan Invasion-era Lyran 'Mech company going, consisting of:
Recon/Light Striker/Pursuit lance:
Hermes II HER-5S, Wolfhound WLF-1, Wolfhound WLF-2, Commando COM-5S
Command/Medium Battle/Striker lance:
Hatchetman HCT-5S, Bushwhacker BSW-S2, Axeman 2N, Hollander BZK-G1
Fire/Direct Fire/Heavy Battle lance:
Zeus ZEU-9S2, Nightstar NSR-9J, Thunder Hawk TDK-7Y, Jagermech JM6-DG
Yes, I did go a little cliched in the third lance. The ZEU-9S2 is a hidden gem, while the JagerMech deserves a target roundel on its barrel-chest ;)
So ... armour. Looking for advice on what armour to deploy with this unit. Rules:
- Must be Lyran or Inner Sphere General, Clan Invasion availability on MUL (not a huge limit)
- Each platoon must be four of the same chassis, but can be pairs of different variants if it makes sense (or they'd look cool)
- Ideally the armour company should complement & work with the 'Mech company, and with the infantry/BA company that'll come along eventually
- Cool is probably more interesting than ultimate combat efficiency
- Minis that come in 2-packs are more cost-effective to me than those that come in one-packs, unless there's a compelling argument.
So, suggestions? Do I "go big or go extinct", or embrace a more graceful approach?
W.
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So, suggestions? Do I "go big or go extinct", or embrace a more graceful approach?
The mech company is dominated ranged hole-punchers. To best complement them, I'd try to add a lance of LRM fire support (Brutus LRM or Sturmfeur), a lance of close-range hole-punchers (Rommels), and a lance of fast attack SRM spam (Drillson SRM).
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What about using Manticore (LB-X)s instead of Rommels for the close-range fighting? Gives you better crit-seeking capability.
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Is this the thread for the Lyran lovers? Because this seems to be the most prominent one in two pages so...
I have question! What titles could a planetary governor hold in the 3025 era (other than governor)? It's pretty easy to find a military ranking chart but not a political one.
Thanks for any help.
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Is this the thread for the Lyran lovers? Because this seems to be the most prominent one in two pages so...
I have question! What titles could a planetary governor hold in the 3025 era (other than governor)? It's pretty easy to find a military ranking chart but not a political one.
Thanks for any help.
If you're looking for a noble title, Duke is a pretty solid one for planetary ruler. Although Lyran Noble titles can be slightly squishier than the others, due to the fact that you can also be granted a noble title for being a successful businessman.
Actually, for pretty much every Great House, you can use Duke for the title of a Planetary Ruler and have it work (although Kurita TECHNICALLY uses other titles, they have been known to use the term "Duke").
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Depends on how important the planet is, too.
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Is this the thread for the Lyran lovers? Because this seems to be the most prominent one in two pages so...
It is. This thread is the successor to a thread that became to long. Steiner fans are some of the more active on this board.
I have question! What titles could a planetary governor hold in the 3025 era (other than governor)? It's pretty easy to find a military ranking chart but not a political one.
Thanks for any help.
As far as ranks of the nobility are concerned, planetary rulers are usually hold the rank of Duke but he may not be the actual administrator of the world. The Graf, technically a subordinate of the Duke, is a either an important land owner or factory owner on this world and may be appointed by the Archon to counterbalance the Duke, or to serve as liason, doing the actual governance. Another possibility to bybass the Duke is the Margrave which is a military governor over a theatre and has authority to overrule Dukes as such.
If the Duke is dead and for some reason no successor is available, the Archon can appoint a Governor acting as, well, governor until a successor is found.
Lastly, the JAG can appoint a Military Governor to an unruly world.
There are a few more oddities, like the Duke of New Kyoto being called Daimyo rather than Duke, or the title of Grand Duke which can be awarded by the Archon to certain Dukes.
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It is. This thread is the successor to a thread that became to long. Steiner fans are some of the more active on this board.
We can go back to pontificating about Skye, if that's what is currently missing.
There are a few more oddities, like the Duke of New Kyoto being called Daimyo rather than Duke, or the title of Grand Duke which can be awarded by the Archon to certain Dukes.
Baron of Glengarry.
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Skye is by far the most exciting part of the Commonwealth, and due to Hesperus II alone also extremely important. That it is or was home to some of the LCAF's best combat formations which inflicted heavy damage on the Archon's enemies is only the icing on the cake. :)
However when it comes to provinces, I am wondering about another thing recently: as of 3145 Skye is mostly gone, and the Tamar Pact is more of a memory than a real political entity. So did the Royal Guards change their recruiting policies? I mean it is not easy for the 2nd Royal Guards to get soldiers from Skye even if technically possible (and we know the 4th Royal Guards forwarded applicants from Skye to the 2nd, supporting "the Pride of Skye"), but the 3rd Royal Guards is not a viable formation if it insists on soldiers from Tamar. This was known since the Jihad, probably earlier, when they were reinforced by soldiers from the Qanatir MTM.
It would make sense for the Dark Age to end the region-based recruiting of the Royal Guards, especially with all the changes the Commonwealth's territory is going through.
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There's probably Tamarite and Skye populations around the Commonwealth descending from transplants or refugees. Steiner could draw upon those populations while simultenously keeping a torch burning for those lost regions as Liao did for Chesterton.
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So if-and-when the Fortress falls, any bets as to how long it'll take the RG to go right for the old homeland?
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Some time I think. There's always a trust factor there.
I would have to say Donegal has some very good units too. The 2nd DG especially.
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There's probably Tamarite and Skye populations around the Commonwealth descending from transplants or refugees. Steiner could draw upon those populations while simultenously keeping a torch burning for those lost regions as Liao did for Chesterton.
Very good point, though I am not sure if they alone could sustain an elite formation in which, techically, only a fraction of the Tamar and Skye soldiers can serve. I guess they just get a preference over equally skilled soldiers from other provinces.
I also suspect the Commonwealth keeps the memory of lost provinces alive, but perhaps not with the same fanaticism as the Confederation. It would be intresting to see if a resurgent Commonwealth restores the Tamar Cavaliers e.g.
So if-and-when the Fortress falls, any bets as to how long it'll take the RG to go right for the old homeland?
I hope the Commonwealth concentrates on regaining its factory worlds, especially Arc-Royal.
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Very good point, though I am not sure if they alone could sustain an elite formation in which, techically, only a fraction of the Tamar and Skye soldiers can serve. I guess they just get a preference over equally skilled soldiers from other provinces.
I also suspect the Commonwealth keeps the memory of lost provinces alive, but perhaps not with the same fanaticism as the Confederation. It would be intresting to see if a resurgent Commonwealth restores the Tamar Cavaliers e.g.
It all depends on what counts for membership in a group. In 314X obviously there'll be in practical terms no Skye or Tamar region born populations available to the Commonwealth, so they'll have to use some sort of ancestry/descent criteria to say "this regiment has so many people from Tamar/Skye regions". Make that criteria loose enough, and there'll be no problem with demographics. If all you need to "prove" ancestry is one great grandparent ("1/8th blooded") there should be sufficiently deep pools from which to recruit. Even if you use a more stringent ancestry requirement to the point that you can't man a regiment, you can reserve key positions for any qualified LCAF officers to keep the regimental proficiency up. (Kind of like colonial British Army regiments)
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Off the current topic, the name of Hesperus II has always confused me.
"Hesperus" could be a reference to three things; The Western Black Widow Spider, the Evening Star, or "The wreck of the Hesperus" (A poem.)
I'm pretty sure it's not mentioned why Hesperus II is named what it is, but I'm very interested in which would make the most sense.
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I like to think of it as being named after Hesperus Mountain (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hesperus_Mountain_%28Colorado%29).
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Well that just raises further questions!
Well, actually, just one.
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Well that just raises further questions!
Well, actually, just one.
How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood? ;D
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Apparently, there are two answers-according to Wikipedia.
Assuming it was ingesting the wood (If "Chuck" is the opposite of "Upchuck" in the context of the saying), it is theorized the Woodchuck could chuck 361.9 cubic centimeters.
Assuming it was chucking, as in moving the wood, it could theoretically move 323 Kilograms of Wood (711 pounds).
Source; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_much_wood_would_a_woodchuck_chuck (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_much_wood_would_a_woodchuck_chuck)
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It all depends on what counts for membership in a group. In 314X obviously there'll be in practical terms no Skye or Tamar region born populations available to the Commonwealth, so they'll have to use some sort of ancestry/descent criteria to say "this regiment has so many people from Tamar/Skye regions".
Maybe there are some former Stormhammers still in the LCAF.
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I like to think of it as being named after Hesperus Mountain (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hesperus_Mountain_%28Colorado%29).
There is also one in Alaska Mount Hesperus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Hesperus_%28Alaska%29).
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True, but the Hesperus in Colorado has a social significance (to the Navajo). That prominence makes it more likely to inspire a name for a colony than some generic mountain.
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Well, the star is named Hesperus, not the planet. That way it isn't like Earth II. It is the 2nd planet in the Hesperus system.
Seeing as how there are continents named North and South Whitman, i'm given to the idea it was named after the Longfellow poem.
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"Hesperus" could be a reference to three things; The Western Black Widow Spider, the Evening Star, or "The wreck of the Hesperus" (A poem.)
I'm pretty sure it's not mentioned why Hesperus II is named what it is, but I'm very interested in which would make the most sense.
I would go with the Greek personification of what we now know to be the planet Venus in the evening sky, the evening star/god Hesperus. Hesperus was the son of Eos, the dawn goddess, and the mortal hero Cephalus, a supposed Athenian whose descendants included Odysseus. The Romans called Hesperus Vesper.
Hesperus had two brothers, one for the planet Venus in the morning, the morning star/god Eosphorus, and one for Venus at night, the bright star/god Phosphorus. Phosphorus in Latin was known as Lucifer, a name later coopted by Judeo-Christian myth.
When the Greeks later learned from Babylonian texts that the evening star, bright star, and morning star were all the same "wandering star", they then attributed this wandering star to Aphrodite, and Hesperus, Eophorus, and Phosphorus were demoted. Aphrodite was known as Venus to the Romans, which is where we get the name for the planet.
Just an assumption, but given the deep ancient source, I would assume that other uses of the name Hesperus (spider, poem, real place names) all refer to the Greek god/myth of Hesperus and do not stand independently of it.
FWIW...
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It all depends on what counts for membership in a group. In 314X obviously there'll be in practical terms no Skye or Tamar region born populations available to the Commonwealth, so they'll have to use some sort of ancestry/descent criteria to say "this regiment has so many people from Tamar/Skye regions".
There are a few worlds from the old Federation of Skye still inside the Commonwealth's borders, and at least one from the old Tamar Pact. How much the people of those worlds still identify with their ancestral nations is debatable, though.
Maybe there are some former Stormhammers still in the LCAF.
Whatever happened to the Stormhammers, anyway? They were making a name for themselves, and then they just disappeared.
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*turns the lights back on in this thread*
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Whatever happened to the Stormhammers, anyway? They were making a name for themselves, and then they just disappeared.
The Stormhammers were absorbed into the LCAF under Jasek's command, becoming an independent command. We know nothing about their size, strength and makeup at this point. After several successive maulings by the Wolf Empire, the surviving Stormhammers were merged into the First Steiner Strikers
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FM:3145 (page 130) makes it sound like the opposite, where the Strikers were merged into the Stormhammers, then the to commands were split again. So it kinda sounds like the Stormhammers are still out there as an independent command on 3145?
I don't have TRO3150, so maybe I'm missing details on them?
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FM:3145 (page 130) makes it sound like the opposite, where the Strikers were merged into the Stormhammers, then the to commands were split again. So it kinda sounds like the Stormhammers are still out there as an independent command on 3145?
Indeed, the last information we got on the Stormhammers is that the 1st Strikers were split from them and elevated to a regiment. TRO:3150 does not mention the fate of the Stormhammers after that. Obviously they are not on the LCAF rolls. Curious case, since their founder Jasek Kelswa-Steiner is a Hauptmann-General of the LCAF and commander of the Donegal theatre now. (Unless he is another Jasek).
Probably the Stormhammers remain his private force outside of LCAF command, being relatively small.
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So I've been perusing the Succession Wars book, and I really like the idea of picking a regiment descended from the SLDF. Makes it interesting in the 1SW era, as they're absorbed into the LC formations. Unfortunately...there's just not all that many of them to pick from, and fewer still that survive until the Dark Age. I went with the info from Sarna just because it's the easiest to track back and forth through, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Units I can't find any info on: 6th and 7th Arcturan Guards, 11th Hesperus Guards, Sakhalin Regulars (any of them), 181st Heavy Assault Regiment, or 9th and 18th Lyran Guards. Does anyone know of the eventual fate of these units, or did they just get left off the field manuals and aren't mentioned as getting stood down anywhere? I'm especially hopeful for the 7th Arcturan, since they're a former Royal unit.
Known destroyed: 19th Lyran Guards (Steel Viper), 5th and 14th Donegal (WoB),
Of the units that survive to the 'end' of Battletech, the 9th Lyran Guard is interesting, being a mix of several battalions of SLDF troops and (according to Sarna) a bunch of anti-Amaris insurgents from the RWR. 17th Arcturan gets to fight a lot of FWL units, including the Wolf's Dragoons back in the day, while also taking on the Clans and the Blakists for quite a while.
I wish there was more info on the 11th Royal Heavy Assault Regiment. Having a unit descended, eventually, from that force would be a fun bit of continuity; they're the only Royal unit that shows up in the LC rolls. If anyone wants to fill in some lore info that they might have on those above units, I'd love to hear it.
There's also some SLDF->merc units listed, but only a few. What happened to the 12th Heavy Assault? Most of the other merc forces are either well known (Illician Lancers) or wiped out, but it doesn't seem to have any info on the 12th's merc service after they signed with the LC in 2784.
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A lot of the First Succession War-era units are just names on lists that haven't been fleshed out as yet. Odds are that most of them (Hesperus Guards, Sakhalin Regulars, 181st Heavy Assault etc) simply die during the Succession Wars one way or another. They get nuked to oblivion, functionally destroyed, merged into other commands and so on. Remember, we're still up to only the end of the First SW. The Second is going to bring about more mass destruction and more tech loss, which will kill more commands. And then there's going to be the long, slow grind of the Third.
(For comparison, the CCAF is basically destroyed during the Succession wars, with very few units or even formations making it all the way through)
Most Sarna articles are back-filled from the unit's first fictional appearance, which means a listing in a 3025 or 3050-era book and going forwards (eg, the Field Manual series, circa 3058-3062) . If a unit doesn't have a Sarna article but was about during the First Succession War, odds are that it doesn't exist by the time of the Clan Invasion. Remember, we've still got a book on the Second Succession War to come, and that's going to probably deal with the fates of many of the commands you mentioned.
I'd also wager that, given the level of destruction and technological loss seen during the early Succession Wars, any unit containing Royal equipment wouldn't have been able to maintain it for that long.
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Yeah, that's been my assumption, but I don't have /all/ the books and Sarna's not a complete thing either. I figured I'd toss one out and see if anyone's aware of what might have happened to those units, if there was ever a mention somewhere else that got missed.
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Add the 6th DG to being destroyed by WoB and merged into the 7th.
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The Hesperus Guards showed up in The Succession Wars board game (along with the York Regulars). Both made their reappearance in FR2750: LC.
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The Hesperus Guards showed up in The Succession Wars board game (along with the York Regulars). Both made their reappearance in FR2750: LC.
When making the Field Report 2750 units, I did my best to include as much of old name-dropped units I could. Like the York Regulars and Hesperus Guards.
Øystein
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Neat. I suppose I'll have to wait to find out what happens to them until the 2nd SW book comes out.
I guess I can stick with my old standby; the 15th Lyran Regulars are around in the era too, and are still a Heavy unit. I really should learn to love light 'Mechs.
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Neat. I suppose I'll have to wait to find out what happens to them until the 2nd SW book comes out.
I guess I can stick with my old standby; the 15th Lyran Regulars are around in the era too, and are still a Heavy unit. I really should learn to love light 'Mechs.
It's some times hard to like light mechs, especially since we make so many good heavy designs.
We make some incredible light mechs too.
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We make some incredible light mechs too.
Yes. This is true. Good mediums, too, depending on the era. But, Lyran lights are not Kuritan assaults. Lyran lights are actually good, but overshadowed by the Lyran big gun complex.
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It's actually surprising how many people make fun of us for the "wall of steel" or "Atlas scout lance" and then proceeded to use mostly heavies and assaults against me.
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I've literally had people mock me for alleged tactical incompetence simply because they knew I was a Lyran fan. While I was in the process of demonstrating that I'd won before the battle had even started. And I was using the lightest mech on the table.
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Fun isn't it? I'm just going to use all these really awesome mediums and lights that we produce and anchor my force with some heavy tanks. Oh? You were expecting typical #STEINER!!! tactics? Well, this IS typical Steiner tactics. 8)
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It's actually surprising how many people make fun of us for the "wall of steel" or "Atlas scout lance" and then proceeded to use mostly heavies and assaults against me.
I know the wall of steel is a stereotype in universe, but it surprises me to see how eager players are to recreate this by their own choice.
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In their defense, again, they DO make some great heavies.
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We do make great heavies. I'd also like to point out that the wall of steel IS a good tactic.
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We do make great heavies. I'd also like to point out that the wall of steel IS a good tactic.
Especially in a strategic setting, where you have only so much space to load up dropships. When you only have a company of 'Mechs to send, you might as well send the biggest.
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With my Lyran mechs, I've embraced the Wall of Steel. Specifically alongside bugs mechs and fast mediums, which keeps the enemy overwhelmed by speed before they're overwhelmed by the heavies. It makes for a nice mix, and I see why it works for Kurita.
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I've got more of an "I've got everything you have, plus a bunch of stuff you don't, and it's all higher quality than yours" approach to how I field Lyran mechs.
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Then you show them what finely-tuned Lyran machinery can do, correct? I have to admit it's quite satisfying to ruin someone's fancy Davion assault mech with my craptastic 3050 Steiner Battlemaster.
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Then you show them what finely-tuned Lyran machinery can do, correct?
They witness the power of my fully armed and operational Battlemechs!
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Then you show them what finely-tuned Lyran machinery can do, correct? I have to admit it's quite satisfying to ruin someone's fancy Davion assault mech with my craptastic 3050 Steiner Battlemaster.
Any time you can ruin a Davion anything it's a good day.
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Davions are the natural allies of the Commonwealth (and currently the only ones, too).
I prefer to ruin the day of my natural enemies, Marik and Kurita. And all the Clans, but that goes without saying. ;)
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Davions are the natural allies of the Commonwealth (and currently the only ones, too).
I prefer to ruin the day of my natural enemies, Marik and Kurita. And all the Clans, but that goes without saying. ;)
Well, the Capellans have been helpful lately, the Xanthos is another fun toy to have.
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Doesn't matter. Ruining the Capellans' day is the national passtime of everyone else.
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Any time you can ruin a Davion anything it's a good day.
Damn right.
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I am actually be quite interested in some Steiner vs Liao scenarios.
Perhaps not in 3150, as the Commonwealth has enough problems already, but otherwise I would like a clash of stereotypes: the wall of steel vs the sneaky backstabbers.
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Stealth Armor is pretty hard for a low-mobility Wall of Steel to face- if you're not fast enough and the terrain is open (allowing easy long-range combat), you're going to get hammered while having trouble returning fire.
On the other hand, things go badly for Stealthy Snipers if you bring your own speedy backstabbers like the Blitzkrieg.
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A wall of steel made from 5/8 Barghests armed with HGR or UAC20, could work too. You just want to get as close as possible as fast as possible. Jumpers armed with pulse lasers would also be worthwhile. Among others, the Black Hawk-Ku, Nightsky, and Uziel could be worthwhile.
How about air-dropping BA onto camping stealth mechs?
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Get the bouncy Blitzkreig, a Hauptmann with a master and two Barghests with the iHGR. Park three on hills....
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Something like this? (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=52938.msg1221412#msg1221412)
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Something like this? (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=52938.msg1221412#msg1221412)
That or the Hauptmann D.
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Don't forget, we make a stealth stealth also. We're not without our sneaky bastards also.
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Regards publication is it where it talks about the Lyrans beating back the wolf and falcon clans in the DA? I can't remember. Anyone?
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Do you mean Operation Jotunheim to liberate Hesperus II? There is not much, only general information in ER:3145 and FM:3145.
The other big battle against both Clans at once was the Battle of Tharkad, which is featured in Bonfire of Worlds. Furthermore the ER and FM provide some info. Be warned that the representation of that battle in Bonfire of Worlds is not exactly what a Lyran fan wants to read: it is all about the Davion Guards almost singlehandedly defending Tharkad, and if Lyran troops are mentioned they are militia or no better than militia (despite the fact that some high profile Lyran units fought in that battle, including the Royal Guards).
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Bonfire of Worlds almost read like pro-Davion fanfic.
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Thanks guys. I thought there was definitely proof they were kicked off Hesperus and Tharkad.
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Well, on Hesperus it was a clear rout; the Falcons and Horses fled in disarray and even panic. On Tharkad however Alaric Wolf requested hegira (presumably to focus Terra) even though he was not defeated, leaving only the Falcons. They were offered hegira by the exhausted Lyrans and accepted it.
We know pretty well what happened Tharkad thanks to Bonfire and the source books. The information on Hesperus is somewhat sketchy, but one can get the overall picture. Nevertheless I would be quite happy to see a Turning Point devoted to this battle since we lack details.
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Bonfire of Worlds almost read like pro-Davion fanfic.
I would have said it read more like a pro-Wolf Clan fanfic.
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I have a question regarding the Enforcer in Lyran service... I always thought this was a result of the Steiner-Davion alliance which allowed Defiance to produce this Mech in 3025, but according to the MUL the Lyrans got the Enforcer even before Katrina Steiner's peace proposal (Late Succession War - LosTech 2901 - 3019 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/976/enforcer-enf-4r)).
I guess Achernar exported the Mech, but in what numbers?
Also do we know how it was received by the Lyran units? The Zeus e.g. was shipped to the FedSuns-part of the FedCom but the Davionistas were too proud to actually use it...
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I can't think of any use in canon by a Lyran, that doesn't mean it didn't happen. Personally, I don't like the Mech. I want to but it's never worked well for me. It usually does quickly to an ammo explosion... I want to use it, I want it to work well, but sometimes there's just that one Mech that doesn't work well for you.
So, if that's indicative of Lyran use, and when I play it's 99% of the time Lyran, then I don't see them using it much.
One more thing. I'm not really a " wall o steel" player. If I'm playing with mediums I want them to be either faster that this or have better armor... Or both. Interestingly enough, I don't have this problem with the centurion.
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The Errata (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=5884.0) or MUL (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=47774.0) threads might be a better place to ask about the MUL criteria.
My own baseless conjecture: The FedSuns liked to supply the mercenary market, so it's conceivable Enforcers were openly sold to mercs. It's also reasonable to imagine that Lyran business interests might buy mechs off the mercenary market and then resell them to under-equipped militia and military regiments (thinking Lyran Regulars as a potential buyer). Hell, Galatea was in the Lyran Commonwealth, so anyone putting serious effort into profiting off of the merc trade during the Succession Wars is going to have sales agents operating there.
Otherwise, they're mostly re-salvaged from Kurita invasions. Or maybe a lot were left behind after the FedSuns attacked Hesperus.
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Well House Steiner and House Davion shared a common hatred for the Dragon so it does make sense that if the FedSuns would export their 'Mechs anywhere it would be to the Lyrans (even without the Steiner-Davion alliance). Plus with their strong economy you knew they would pay the balance owned (its during the negotiations that they had to watch out ;)).
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Thanks for the answers!
Now another short Mech-question: what BattleMech(s) did Katrina Steiner pilot?
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Warhawk?
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Warhawk?
I think he meant Katrina Steiner, not Katherine.
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Didn't she pilot a Warhammer?
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Blue Warhammer, yes; the same one Melissa got some training in (but apparently wasn't very proficient with).
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Hello fellow Lyrans!
I'm going to build a Lightning Company (Blitzkompanie) and I what I need help with is not what mechs to use, but which Regiment to build it in. I already have companies in the 6th Lyran Guard, 4th Lyran Regulars and 11th Arcturan Guard. I'd like to use a different unit for this Lightning Company, and I'm open to suggestions. :) (And don't forget to tell me why you recommend the Regiment).
My chief criteria is that you take into account the Regiment's special rule, if it has one (most do).
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What era?
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What era?
I am most familiar with pre-Dark Age but I'll consider any gallant Lyran regiment.
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I'm going to build a Lightning Company (Blitzkompanie) and I what I need help with is not what mechs to use, but which Regiment to build it in.
Depending on how you want to build the company, I would consider the 2nd Donegal Guards (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/2nd_Donegal_Guards). Sarna states their special is: (I'm at work so I can't look this up in FM:LA myself.)
The Second Donegal Guard possessed a reputation for unorthodox, yet effective, tactics. They preferred high-speed combat over the usual Lyran "mountain of metal" tactics, as well as the heavy use of aerospace assets.
I picked the 2nd Donegal Guards when planning a force because I wanted to do less traditional force (which is also why I picked the 2nd St. Ives Lancers for a Capellan Confederation unit). The relatively simple paint scheme (http://camospecs.com/Unit/Details/121/2nd-donegal-guards-rct) doesn't hurt either since I'm inexperienced at painting.
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Celebrate the eras CGL is working on now (early succession wars and dark age) by painting up the 4th Royal Guard!
I can't remember what their special ability is but I'm pretty sure I gave them something cool.
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Blue Warhammer, yes; the same one Melissa got some training in (but apparently wasn't very proficient with).
Thanks! That is interesting because it is a relatively light Mech compared to the Mechs of her peers. With the exception of Takashi Kurita in the Battle of Luthien, head of states usually drive heavier Mechs, and Takashi decision was surely symbolic.
Think about the Wall of Steel / Atlas Scout Lance stereotypes, and an Archon in a Warhammer is not what I would have expected. Not that I saw her in an Atlas; I saw her in one of the more mobile assaults.
I'm going to build a Lightning Company (Blitzkompanie) and I what I need help with is not what mechs to use, but which Regiment to build it in. I already have companies in the 6th Lyran Guard, 4th Lyran Regulars and 11th Arcturan Guard. I'd like to use a different unit for this Lightning Company, and I'm open to suggestions. :) (And don't forget to tell me why you recommend the Regiment).
My chief criteria is that you take into account the Regiment's special rule, if it has one (most do).
3rd Royal Guards in the 4th SW
According to the Atlas, most Lightning Companies in this war were exclusively composed of light Mechs. But the Royal Guards have two Lightning Companies, and the First of them is pretty heavy. It has two medium lances of Assassins, Phoenix Hawks, and Centurions; plus one lance of Wasps, Stingers, and Javelins. This light lance represents a typical force composition of LCs in the 4th SW, though throwing in a few Valkyries should not be a problem considering they were already produced in the Commonwealth. The Commando is absent for being incapable of jumping, I guess, but that is why I personally would exclude the Centurion too (and perhaps replace it with an Enforcer). Furthermore I think Clints and Shadowhawks are valid choices in the medium class, as long as they are not the majority. Vulcan and Firestarter are not my first choice, because their anti-infantry focus may not be what a Lightning Company is for, but one of those will not hurt.
I like the Third Royals for being an elite trouble shooter unit, which is always given the toughest nuts to crack and does not just sit on Tharkad. Due to their innovative tactics they get an inititive bonus.
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I picked the 2nd Donegal Guards when planning a force because I wanted to do less traditional force (which is also why I picked the 2nd St. Ives Lancers for a Capellan Confederation unit).
Off Map movement is a very handy ability.
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As for era, I have found I often create a 16-mech company so that I'll have 8-12 I can use in almost any era. BT is handy that way, for example my Stalker mini can be a 3025 design or a 3075 design or a 3125 design. It depends on the mech sheet, not the miniature :)
*edit* Upon review Skye Rangers are out. Sorry. ;)
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I'll second the 2nd DG. Originally I was thinking a Jager unit because they were originally built using older stuff and it probably wouldn't be very heavy.
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Keep suggesting a Regiment, and while that's being pondered I have gone through my bin of already purchased 'Mechs and what I have on hand that would be eligible are the following. Feel free to let me know what you would use for a Lightning Company, and also add in an extra Lance (so 4 lances in total)
Wolverine
Enfield
Lynx
Cicada
Assassin
Phoenix Hawk
Uziel
Griffin
Vulcan
Strider
Dervish
Blitzkreig
Crab
Firestarter Omni
Dart
Dart
Spector
Spector
Fireball
Commando
Commando
Hornet
Hornet
Stinger
Would fast Heavies (6/9/0) be in a Lightning Company?
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Only problem that I can see with that is that there aren't too many Lyran heavies that move 6/9.
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I'm having a hard time thinking of a heavy that we produce that moves 6/9. The 3050 dragon, but we don't produce it. I think some 5/8/? Heavies wouldn't be bad in there.
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6/9 is an excessive demand for most heavy Mechs anyway since 70 and 75 tonners cannot even reach that speed without MASC, TSM, or supercharger. And 60/65 tonners with such a huge engine (360/390) are relatively uncommon. And in Lyran hands... You may argue for some captured Grand Dragon or a Lancelot found in a cache, but those would be rare. However if you have an ARDC-unit like the 20th or 23rd Arcturan Guards, you perhaps could use Mechs from Clan WiE like the Linebacker. But again, it would not be typical.
5/8 is totally fine for a fast heavy Mech group, and the Lyrans have a nice selection in that field.
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OK, then would 5/8 Heavies be found in a Lightning Company?
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I am of the opinion that they could possibly be. Heavy cavalry mechs would be very effective in this type of company. 2 lances of 7/11 + to mess with them and the heavy cav mechs to clean up.
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OK, then would 5/8 Heavies be found in a Lightning Company?
The Falconer and Verfolger both immediately come to mind.
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The Falconer and Verfolger both immediately come to mind.
And they are excellent choices. Another very Lyran choice would be the Barghest. I personally like the Maelstrom, build by Norse Storm. Sometimes overlooked is that the Flashman was build by Defiance - primarily for ComStar but also for the Alliance. And there are even more to chose from.
Contrary to the wall of steel stereotype, the Lyrans have a number of good cavalry Mechs.
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The Lyran unofficial motto should be "whatever type of mech you favor, we build it too and ours is probably better."
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The Lyran unofficial motto should be "whatever type of mech you favor, we build it too and ours is probably better."
Dang skippy! And it'll be delivered by a beautiful woman and we'll leave a case of scotch or Timbiqui Dark in the cockpit, your choice!
Why would you want to be any other Faction? 8)
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So... How bad would it be to paint a Tomahawk II in Royal Guard colors?
With some proper Lyran modifications to loadout, obviously.
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Celebrate the eras CGL is working on now (early succession wars and dark age) by painting up the 4th Royal Guard!
I can't remember what their special ability is but I'm pretty sure I gave them something cool.
Aha! I remembered to look it up. When attacking, copy one from an opponent; when defending, delete one from your opponent.
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Strange: the MUL says the Dragon -7N (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5450/dragon-drg-7n) is available for the Lyran Alliance. It is the only Dragon variant, so ordinary salvage does not explain it. What is the history of that Dragon variant in Lyran service (some 20 years)? Or is it a simple mistake?
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Strange: the MUL says the Dragon -7N (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5450/dragon-drg-7n) is available for the Lyran Alliance. It is the only Dragon variant, so ordinary salvage does not explain it. What is the history of that Dragon variant in Lyran service (some 20 years)? Or is it a simple mistake?
It's a curious find. Sure, a simple mistake could be the explanation, but I find it poor practice to use "it must be in error" to be the first go-to explanation.
It does appear to me that when availability is given to a faction via "lots of salvage available", its availability goes away as time progresses. This example does fit that trajectory as it quits being available to Steiner as of the Dark Age whereas it continues being available to the Combine, where it was presumably still in production and/or always had been available in greater numbers.
But since we don't see other Dragon variants showing up as available for Steiner, that probably isn't the whole story. Rather than saying it's suggestive that salvage can't be the explanation, I'm thinking it actually could still sensibly be. If, that is, you think about what variants were like in the Succession Wars: an aftermarket refit/jury rig to existing machines, rather than designing and manufacturing new machines entirely. It certainly seems that Steiner should have one of the larger fleets of Dragon-class mechs in the inner sphere outside the DCMS, simply by having fought with Kurita for centuries. Steiner may simply have undergone an upgrade program to take all their salvaged Dragons and upgraded them to the same standard, which happens to be a board-game-level-of-granularity match for what Kurita called the -7N.
Of course, there's also the more direct possibility: Kurita simply exported a few production runs to Steiner. This wouldn't be the first time neighboring IS states sold one another mechs. The -7N was never a prestige ride for Kurita pilots, so I don't see why it couldn't have been exported. It *is* on the Merc availability list afterall, which certainly could indicate substantial production not scooped up by the DCMS.
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That is an interesting thought, thank you! The Steiner Dragon being the equivalent to a DRG-7N rather than a 'true' -7N makes sense. Perhaps the Merc -7Ns are, in fact, Steiner models they sold. To be honest I cannot imagine many Lyran units wanting the Dragon in the first place, so selling them to Mercs may not be the worst idea. But then, this was in the middle of the Civil War, perhaps they were forced to press their Dragons into service (and upgrade them, too).
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Another Steiner question: in the FCCW source book says Lohengrin captured Baron Popov and attempted to capture Duke Bradford at the beginning of the FCCW. What kind of equipment would they have used in such an operation? Battle Armor or something light? Are there pictures of Lohengrin operatives?
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A question, good people (and Social Generals as well): in FM:FS, there's a Dart DRT-3S1 listed on the light RATs. I can't find reference to such a mech anywhere else. Anyone ever seen it anywhere? Was it a slip-up that revealed the existence of a top secret project y'all have been cooking up on Coventry?
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I'm pretty sure it's a typo.
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Did we ever get a proper map of the Lyran Commonwealth with their Pre-FedCom Theater system?
Or has that been forgotten about?
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I haven't seen anytning.
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Btw folks. If you're on FB look up friends of the lyran Commonwealth.
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I haven't seen anytning.
I found it.
Finally have a proper map of their theaters.
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Anyone notice that House Steiner seems to really, really like Mediums and Lights going roughly 5/8-6/9? There's something to be said when they have one of the fastest 50-tonners in the game, and the fact that most of their Light "Scout" Mechs and Medium "Recon" Mechs move near the same speeds.
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Anyone notice that House Steiner seems to really, really like Mediums and Lights going roughly 5/8-6/9? There's something to be said when they have one of the fastest 50-tonners in the game, and the fact that most of their Light "Scout" Mechs and Medium "Recon" Mechs move near the same speeds.
Depends on which era you're looking at. Yes, the Griffin, Phoenix Hawk, and Vulcan appear to be the mainstays of the pre-FedCom days. By the 3060s, 5/8 and 6/9 mediums are commonplace and 7/11 mediums aren't unusual.
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I was talking about the Blitzkreig, for reference. And I know there's plenty of 7/11 mediums, but the Blitz is the only 50-ton capable of that that I know of.
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The Legionnaire is also 7/11.
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The Blitzkrieg doesn't seem any more like a line mech than the Alliance produced Clint and Assassin variants of the 3060s. The 8/12/8 Cicadas from the FWL have more armor. The Blitzkrieg is also the direct successor to the lighter Hollander, making it more comparable to the Kit Fox A that the Hollander was intended to mimic.
The Clan Invasion taught the Lyrans some lessons, and the tech resurgence allowed them to make better, faster mechs. We get locally produced heavy cav designs like the Falconer and Barghest, and by the late Jihad and Republic eras there are variants of the Uziel and Zeus X that cross 8 hexes in a jump.
These faster mechs make a great compliment to the traditional Lyran heavy lances and show that the Lyran forces of the Civil War era and later are closer to the diversity that Alessandro and Katrina were looking for at the turn of the century.
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The Blitz isn't really a scout mech anyway: it's a skirmisher that waits until the big mechs are brawling before running in and giving one of them a depleted uranium suppository.
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Next time someone has to lock the old thread so everyone(especially me) is aware that the show goes on in a new thread.
At least I didn't miss too much in these 1 3/4 years.
BTW is it just me or do these kind of threads get less and less attention every time a new one is opened.
I found it.
Finally have a proper map of their theaters.
And you found it where?
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Next time someone has to lock the old thread so everyone(especially me) is aware that the show goes on in a new thread.
At least I didn't miss too much in these 1 3/4 years.
BTW is it just me or do these kind of threads get less and less attention every time a new one is opened.
Yeah, I think so. And yes, the tech resurgence allowed the Lyrans to take both their blitzkrieg and their wall of steel tactics to greater extremes, and with better results. And the Blitzkrieg is basically just a Saladin with legs; use accordingly.
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There's the other Blitzkrieg which is just a nasty spotter. I like to team is up with a Hauptman, Banshee and Barghast.
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That's some serious pain, there. I like it! >:D
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Has anyone a clue what the mainstay aerospace fighters are pre-3039 for the LCAF?
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Has anyone a clue what the mainstay aerospace fighters are pre-3039 for the LCAF?
I take you mean other than the Seydlitz, Lucifer and Chippewa? (note: The older, original 3025 TRO had the original batch of aerospace fighters arranged such that you saw what was supposed to be the most common light, medium and heavy aerospace fighters for each House...these three were the House Steiner fighters)
The Commonwealth also produced the following: Sabre, Centurion, Lightning, Hellcat, Typhoon, Thunderbird, Rapier
I may have missed some, but this should cover most of the pre-Star League, Star League and Succession Wars era fighters produced in the Lyran Commonwealth...
Edit: Weirdly enough, the board would not let me post the original subject line...had to shorten it...
Edit: I should also note that the LCAF is also stated to have more Stingray aerospace fighters than any other House outside of the FWL...
Ruger
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So I was poking through FM3145 and noticed the Fifth Lyran Regulars use a "full strength" twelve-company regiment. That struck me as weird compared to everything FMLA says about regimental strengths, but then it gave me an idea. Still running with the 15th Lyran Regulars, that superheavy force, but I figured I'd have a little fun. Keep the 12 companies, but mix them up in four companies per battalion and then organize on a more realistic setup. Three 'line' companies, and a fourth 'specialist' company with all the firesupport and such there.
Granted this works better with more homogenous forces, but it might be interesting to see what comes out of this. I guess to keep the companies working within the twelve-mech setup, first lance would be the company commander plus a bodyguard, then a two-mech firesupport pair, with the rest of the lances being straight up fighters.
I guess if I were going to play this straight and stick with a heavy/assault force pre-Clan era, what would be a proper Lyran 'command' mech? Banshee 3E? Or should a 3S be the bodyguard, and a company commander in a Battlemaster? I guess Stalker 3Hs, Longbows, or Archers for fire-support 'mechs, and a mix of Zeus and Thunderbolt 5SS lances for line companies. Special company probably has a pure firesupport lance and then maybe a Pixie-Firestarter-Commando-Commando set of two scout lances.
Now to tape my organization together...and see what the RATs are kind enough to provide. Anyone ever do something with organizing more focused in capabilities like this? Or just grab mechs, grab minis, and go for it?
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remember that the FMLA is set a hundred year before FM3145, and the whole "disarmament phase" of the 3090-3130s utterly changed the makeup of all the armies of the Inner Sphere.
The rebuilding in the 3130-> period allowed for new ideas and formations.
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Fair point, especially with the RCT->LCT conversions. Though now I wonder how a 12 company regiment works!
For the 3SW/4SW era, would a command lance be the norm for a battalion or just straight up 36 'Mechs no ifs-ands-buts?
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Could be simple enough. 9 standard companies, 1 command company (usually found in RCTs according to FM:LA), and then maybe an extra lightning company or something.
Or someone couldn't do math and thought that 132 'Mechs was 12 companies instead of 11 :)
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I figured with the 132 mech thing, a command company for the regiment plus a command lance for each of three battalions fits the 11 companies perfectly.
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BattleTech has always mostly ignored support and non-combat elements... but it's possible that particular reference cited upthread might have been referencing them. 9 combat companies to form a standard regiment, plus 3 more support companies that don't have any combat elements. Admin, Comms, and Medical, or similar.
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No, all unit strengths are combat units.
I should know, I wrote them :)
12 companies is simple - 4 battalions of 3 companies instead of 3.
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No command lances or company, then? Just out of curiosity.
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What a silence in here... but I guess the real Steiners just wake up from partying into the new year.
Happy New Year to every real Steiner!
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I'd imagine that the 4th company in modern regiments is the support element, probably made up of one demi-company each of air defense and fire support designs, command by the colonel and his XO and split up as needed.
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don't see a point to starting a whole new faction thread when this one still has pages left.
can anyone tell me about the Melissa Theater Militia (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Melissia_Theater) units?
i'm working on a Alpha Strike unit for the 3140's. i'm using Cannonshop's idea of the Ersatzkampfgruppe.. Militia units drafted into frontline service. given the situation the Lyrans find themselves in in the 3140's, i can see them going to such lengths to get troops into the fight.
i already have the component forces for a 1000pv battlegroup, i just can't find enough info on the Lyran militia units to decide where the mech component would come from. (the vehicle component i've already picked, since the force in question is fairly basic and could be from a lot of worlds.) i figured that the mech component a battlegroup would come from a slightly more established force. i went with melissa theater because it seems out of the main fighting, and thus more likely to be able to free up troops.
or would a displaced militia unit from one of the Clan held zones make a better choice?
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Would they displace a MILITIA unit from a clan zone? I would imagine the Lyrans removing federal troops from the front line when they are losing a planet, but a militia unit not so much. Transport capacity is limited and they would certainly prioritize.
I am not familiar with this particular situation, but from what you say it sounds like the militia stuff is moving rear echelon units to the hot areas, not from the frying pan to the fire.
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So, I'm looking at building companies for my favorite factions (2 lyran) and a few OpFor to use up my extra mechs.
Right now for the succession war era I have:
Atlas x2, Banshee, Hatchetman, Zeus x2, Battlemaster, Centurion, Dervish, Javelin, Commando, Wolfhound, Rifleman,
Victor, Archer, Fire Starter, Warhammer
I plan on expanding this to 24 mechs, a line company, and a lighting company. I'm planning on equipping the lightning company with mechs that move at least 5/8, while the line will mostly be trooper style mechs and assaults. Griffins and Phoenix Hawks for the LC and TBolts and such for the line company. Still deciding the regiment.
My main question is around a future goal. I want to make my units playable for each of the eras. I was going to add four mechs to each company for each era/TRO. What I was wondering is what would be flavorful additions to a lyran force.
I do have more models, though I felt they were themed better to other factions: a Canopian force, a FWL OpFor, and a WD unit as a 'dumping ground' for my combine mechs and shoguns.
I can list them if needed.
I'm also picking up both new starter boxes, and a friend is sending me his Robotech KS (He had the largest package), so I have those to draw on as well.
Thanks for your help, I am a bit lost.
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I made a Combat Manual Lite for House Steiner.
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=63772.0
If anybody has any time to look over it and check I didn't miss something, I'd appreciate it.
I could also use suggestions for additional unique characters...
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Merry Christmas to the Steiner boys!
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Say, do we know what *kind* of cancer killed Katrina Steiner? Breast, bone, pancreas, or maybe CML? If that was never elaborated in the material, it's fine but, I'm considering a Thing, and wouldn't want to mess up the 'biography' of one of the main characters (it's the cancer, the cancer is the character).
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I've checked sarna and with JPArbiter, but could the thread give me a bit more detail on the Lyons TPM? Minis would be particularly useful for the paint scheme, but just about anything would be helpful.
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Rise from your grave!
Okay so...the way I see it, the Lyrans have fought effectively everybody. The RWR, the Star League, back in the day. Kurita and Marik for a few centuries. After hooking up with the Davions, taking on Capellan raids and hitting the FWL from a new direction. Suddenly, CLANS. Wolves and Burds to start with, and the Jags in Bulldog. Oh look, now we're fighting the Davions - and we're fighting the Lyrans too. And in the meantime we're sending regiments into the Capellan periphery to hunt pirates. Then the Blakists! And after that, more Clans, with the Burds & Horses and Wolves dividing the place up nicely. Add in the various raiders from the Republic.
So...by my count, that's 3 of 4 major invading Clans plus the Horses, all five Great Houses, the Word, the Republic, and half the Periphery as well as the OG Star League. Can't really ask for a faction that's got more varied enemies everywhere...which regiments took on the most different factions?
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All too much for my taste, I have the feeling we are about to roll over and die(at least for a while like the FWL) if this goes on that way.
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It really feels like the Commonwealth has been written into a corner where only a heaping pile of author fiat can save it at this point.
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I'll pour out one for my LCAF Homies when that happens.
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I think the Lyran's have a chance of coming out okay simply because both the Wolves and Falcons are likely going to significantly weaken themselves fighting over Terra. Although I don't think Trillian Steiner will be Archon once IlClan ends.
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Oh, is that a new Steiner product aimed at Q4?
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What?
Where?
Who?
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I don't see any Q4 offerings in the Coming Soon page.
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The Lyran Commonwealth may have to undergo change, but it is not out of the fight yet.
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I don't see any Q4 offerings in the Coming Soon page.
Cubby's probably behind with the load of stuff they just told us about.
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Hello all. Question: I do not have the lyran book, so. Question for you all:
Are there periods of lyran civil war or succession conflicts in the lyran commonwealth during the 3rd succession war? Looking at sarna i have seen several coups, but not conflict in more than one localized place. I am attempting to find a period to establish a merc company and this would be helpful.
Thx
Xavi
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Probably the biggest thing was when Katrina Steiner fled to the Periphery in 3004, then came back in 3007 to depose Alessandro Steiner.
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Interesting to see that Alex Carlyle survived the Jihad and became the count of Odessa, makes you wonder if the planetary militia are now know as the Gray Death.
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And now we now why the virus fizzled out there, the universe decided to give Caryle a break by giving him a place to settle down.
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Looking for some Lyran guidance here.
I'm building a Jihad-era Lyran force, using up my pre-KS minis. The company of 'Mechs will look like this:
Lance
Marauder II
Longbow
Zeus
Dire Wolf
Lance
Phoenix Hawk
Dervish
Cicada
Hermes II
Lance
Commando
Wasp
Spider
Jenner
Supporting elements will include Savannah Masters, Patton tanks, Fenris BA, Gray Death BA, and others to be determined to bulk out a combined-arms battalion.
So, question. Would this be reasonable to find as part of the Furillo TMM? Yes, that TMM - Tommy Hogarth's unit. Who favour lighter units (the second and third companies look OK by this.)
I'd be prepared to call the assault-ey lance ex-friends of Hogarths from the 22nd Skye or 7th Donegal who followed him back to Furillo, if that would help.
Opinions sought! Thanks in advance.
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The chaos and destruction of the Jihad makes it easy to justify all sorts of weirdness. Could be an ad-hoc company put together by survivors of other units who joined up with with the Furillo TMM due to it being the nearest place they could go. Or the mechs are the result of replacement salvage: a Marauder II or Daishi might be weird for that unit, but it's not like anyone would say no (except for that one guy talking to himself in the corner who refers to his Ostscout as "My Precious", but we don't talk about him).
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Justify the MAD II & Dire Wolf as retired LAAF officers returning to the flag?
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Quite plausible.
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So I'm already seeing it that the Dire Wolf and Marauder II, plus a couple of others, could be ex-Skye Rangers, with the actual CO in the Zeus being ignored by them ;) Will give those ones black arms, or something subtle like that ;)
Could I get away with 4 platoons Arrow IV artillery? Or is that a big much :) I'm making these more for the fun of making the minis/units, and the last time I made a Lyran infantry company it ended up looking like this ...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3ffD-3gPmuOLnjzQf0YYVNY-6uXhuk_eyFSxLMYlnRmVOMo-qF9-Xx7yvTl1q12XkleyEbMIsd2fXl2uFQrv3dKoKc-UBIOJA83EUpe46UtcGQuDo5btCieqlGnFhTdi3UInV7dgIqBdaB8oA9PJDkW=w679-h591-no?authuser=0)
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Reading this:
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/general-discussion/upcoming-releases-xx-the-page-reference-we-missed/
it seems that the demise of the LC is over and we are going to take some worlds back. Good that the green chickens are gone, hated them right from the start.
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Yep, I'm excited for a healthy and vibrant LCAF. Always hated the Turkeys, and I hated the name Lyran Alliance. Commonwealth or death, baby.
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Adam Steiner switched the name back after the Jihad.
Also, yay, no more Falcons!
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I wonder if the Arcturan General is looking to recreate the Tamar Pact.
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Think of all that Clan-tech salvage that's just sitting there unguarded that the Falcons left behind...
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Think of all the factories that are still in perfect working order and tooled to produce Clan omnimechs that were just left there.
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This sounds as if the Falcon OZ becomes a virtual smogasbroad of planets and factories for everyone who has the forces to take them. So maybe the Horses, Bears and the Combine plus the Lyrans trying to salvage what they can? Of course we have to include the long tavel time of news across the IS.
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I'm making these more for the fun of making the minis/units, and the last time I made a Lyran infantry company it ended up looking like this ...
Your lack of Rotties disturbs me.
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You know what would be a really great change of pace for the Commonwealth?
Having victories happen onscreen.
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You know what would be a really great change of pace for the Commonwealth?
Having victories happen onscreen.
fixed that for you. You know what else would be a fantastic change of pace?
1. Having competent leadership that isn't named "Davion".
2. Having Competent leadership.
3. Not doing the stupidest thing humanly possible at every opportunity.
4. having competent leaders that aren't named "Kell".
5. Doing intelligent things for a change, as opposed to using the stupidest possible economic and military strategies available.
6. having competent leadership that isn't imported from somewhere else.
7. Having competent leadership that originates at home and isn't trying to break the nation internally with a pointless civil war in the face of an invasion.
8. actually doing intelligent things and learning from past experiences.
and so on...
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Would be nice. If you think about it, the Commonwealth hasn't really been a "winning" state since the 4th Succession War.
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Whenever I think of how Lyrans can go forward: Awaken , Awaken, Awaken. Take the land that must be takeb. Hope you guys get something back.
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Hey Lyrans. Just popped by to say hello, and hope you folks
make the recovery you're long overdue. Despite past rancour
I think you'd find, a sizeable amount of us Feddies....wish you
well.
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Hey Lyrans. Just popped by to say hello, and hope you folks
make the recovery you're long overdue. Despite past rancour
I think you'd find, a sizeable amount of us Feddies....wish you
well.
Gosh, FedRats will do anything to get some help. :D
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Haha sleeping bears, oughtn't to be talking in the midst of their slumber :p
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...We're keeping Bolan. That one's ours.
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We'll see about that Mr Freeman...
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You know what would be a really great change of pace for the Commonwealth?
Having victories happen onscreen.
Um. (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/The_Anvil)
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Preventing the Falcons from conquering as many worlds as they wanted to doesn't count as a victory.
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Guess we'll need to see Tamar Rising for the full SP but i'll be surprised of the Commonwealths border hasn't moved back towards the original one.
I'd assume Arc-Royal will be a priority target for liberation, any other worlds spring to mind as must retake?
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What's the status of Coventry?
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Right on the Lyran edge of the Falcon OZ, as are Tharkad, Donegal and Hesperus II. So I guess any LCAF offensive needs to grab worlds close to those four for depth and Arc-Royal for its factories.
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Is this crystal blue and white digital camo now the official Arcturan Guards paint scheme? (Previously solid white)
It was in the Legends book and now on the cover of Tamar Rising.
Not a fan tbh... it looks a bit too digital, i.e. being a texture applied by digital artist on a PC rather than a paintjob applied to a war machine by ground crew.
What's the status of Coventry?
CWM is mostly destroyed at the end of The Anvil, which is another reason I consider this a pyrrhic victory at best. It is yet another blow against the already diminished industrial power of the Commonwealth.
And that's almost the only type of success the Lyrans enjoy these days: surviving. If they are lucky. Maybe Hesperus II counts as a little better.
However, what's needed is an apologetic wall of steel victory, actually crushing a substantial force of a long standing external rival and/or conquering an important target.
Tamar Rising looks like yet another secession scenario where a victory feels pyrrhic once more.
Hey Lyrans. Just popped by to say hello, and hope you folks
make the recovery you're long overdue. Despite past rancour
I think you'd find, a sizeable amount of us Feddies....wish you
well.
The Commonwealth and the Suns are natural allies: minimal shared borders, relatively compatible cultures, and a huge common enemy (Dracs).
From a purely strategic point of view, an alliance with the Capellans would make sense, too, but that never happened for good reason.
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Too bad the Lyrans have only that one Mjölnir class battleship left. Imagine if they had a few ships they could go an a space rampage like the Steel Vipers did with their Leviathan Prime battleship. I mean nothing says "****** you I win" then a 1.25 million ton battleship brsitling with guns and armor when your opponent only has smaller cruisers or frigates
Or going scorched earth with some selective orbital bombardments
Most important would be to reclaim the nearest worlds around Tharkad and hopefully some important worlds like Arcturus, Meliisia or even Pandora if they are adventurous enough.
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Hey Lyrans. Just popped by to say hello, and hope you folks
make the recovery you're long overdue. Despite past rancour
I think you'd find, a sizeable amount of us Feddies....wish you
well.
Hello Rorke!
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Short question:
What Mech would a Lyran battalion commander (Kommandant e.g.) have in the FCCW-era? More specifically, would it be weird if she or he had a medium Mech or even a light Mech?
I know the stereotype requires a heavy or assault Mech but I am interested in how realistic a lighter option would be.
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Short question:
What Mech would a Lyran battalion commander (Kommandant e.g.) have in the FCCW-era? More specifically, would it be weird if she or he had a medium Mech or even a light Mech?
I know the stereotype requires a heavy or assault Mech but I am interested in how realistic a lighter option would be.
Bushwacker, Eisenfaust, Enfield (maybe), Hatchetman (they were still proud of these things), Nightsky, Uziel, griffons are always popular LC mechs. (I read your question wrong and just not going back to delete my wonderful list)
If hes leading from the Lightning Company or a generally lower weight formation it wouldnt be out of character at all. The Eisenfaust and Hatchetman are almost good options if leading from a Heavy/Assault weight unit. You can look so unthreatening compared to the Hauptman Omnis or whatever else is in your heavy command lance. And as a bonus those heavies dont feel too slow, cause they are keepinig up with (a) medium mech. ;D
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The Eisenfaust never made it into production until the jihad, but the Blackjack omni and Firestarter omni would both be available.
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The Eisenfaust never made it into production until the jihad, but the Blackjack omni and Firestarter omni would both be available.
You are right. I really am drawn to that stupid little mech for one reason or another. I try and squeeze on in when it fits, a bridge too far today.
Both of those 1st IS omnis hold up relatively well too
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Yeah, unlike the
Lunchbox Strider.
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In HotW it is mentioned that we are attempting to assist rebellions on 12 worlds recently captured by the Falcons, so given what we know which 12 do we think they will be?
My guesses would be:-
Pobeda - pushes the Falcon's away from Tharkad.
Horneburg - pushes the Falcon's away from Tharkad.
Westerstede - pushes the Falcon's away from Tharkad.
Cameron - pushes the Falcon's away from Tharkad and Donegal.
Alkaid - pushes the Falcon's away from Hesperus II.
Guatavita - pushes the Falcon's away from Coventry.
Krievci - pushes the Falcon's away from Coventry.
New Capetown - pushes the Falcon's away from Coventry and regains an Academy (if its still intact).
Arc Royal - regains vital industrial output and denies it to the Falcons.
Glengarry - regains vital industrial output and denies it to the Falcons (assuming the factory has been repaired).
Arcturus - regains vital industrial output and denies it to the Falcons, plus its an important world historically.
Pandora - regains vital industrial output and denies it to the Falcons and regains an Academy (if its still intact).
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In HotW it is mentioned that we are attempting to assist rebellions on 12 worlds recently captured by the Falcons, so given what we know which 12 do we think they will be?
My guesses would be:-
Pobeda - pushes the Falcon's away from Tharkad.
Horneburg - pushes the Falcon's away from Tharkad.
Westerstede - pushes the Falcon's away from Tharkad.
Cameron - pushes the Falcon's away from Tharkad and Donegal.
Alkaid - pushes the Falcon's away from Hesperus II.
Guatavita - pushes the Falcon's away from Coventry.
Krievci - pushes the Falcon's away from Coventry.
New Capetown - pushes the Falcon's away from Coventry and regains an Academy (if its still intact).
Arc Royal - regains vital industrial output and denies it to the Falcons.
Glengarry - regains vital industrial output and denies it to the Falcons (assuming the factory has been repaired).
Arcturus - regains vital industrial output and denies it to the Falcons, plus its an important world historically.
Pandora - regains vital industrial output and denies it to the Falcons and regains an Academy (if its still intact).
When you look at it all like that... The ilKhannate may yet be the end of liberty in the Inner Sphere but it has already saved House Steiner. Malvina Hazen had you guys licked.
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Pobeda - pushes the Falcon's away from Tharkad.
Not to mention tha victory on a world named victory, can be used well in propaganda.
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Not to mention tha victory on a world named victory, can be used well in propaganda.
You know i hadn't even clocked that, it would indeed be a useful propaganda tool.
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Glengarry is almost a certainty, we know the GDL will be back and it’s their world.
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Glengarry is almost a certainty, we know the GDL will be back and it’s their world.
The Carlyle's are the Baron's of the Odessa system these days. wonder if they'll bring the Odessa Regulars back at some point.
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The Carlyle's are the Baron's of the Odessa system these days. wonder if they'll bring the Odessa Regulars back at some point.
I vaguely remember that I suppose.
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I've just noticed we have the Shadow Hawk -11CS2 on our dark age list, does anyone know what has replaced the C3i system on the -11CS?
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Doesn't look like there's a record sheet for that mech, yet. So no.
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I think it'd be the same as the WVR-9W2. A Guardian ECM and a C3 slave.
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I think it'd be the same as the WVR-9W2. A Guardian ECM and a C3 slave.
Yep. added a public note on the MUL for it.
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Cheers all.
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Any chance the Lyrans are going to try to retake borders from the Timbuktu collective or the FWL?
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Can't see it happening in the short term, right now the focus has to be on staying alive and pushing at least the Falcons away from Tharkad/Hesperus/Donegal/Coventry and hopefully regaining other important systems like Arc-Royal and Pandora.
After that I think the next target would be those systems that have broken away to join with the near periphery.
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Bushwacker, Eisenfaust, Enfield (maybe), Hatchetman (they were still proud of these things), Nightsky, Uziel, griffons are always popular LC mechs. (I read your question wrong and just not going back to delete my wonderful list)
If hes leading from the Lightning Company or a generally lower weight formation it wouldnt be out of character at all. The Eisenfaust and Hatchetman are almost good options if leading from a Heavy/Assault weight unit. You can look so unthreatening compared to the Hauptman Omnis or whatever else is in your heavy command lance. And as a bonus those heavies dont feel too slow, cause they are keepinig up with (a) medium mech. ;D
The Eisenfaust never made it into production until the jihad, but the Blackjack omni and Firestarter omni would both be available.
Thanks! The Firestarter Omni would be interesting since the character I have in mind is an Allied officer, i.e. with Victor in the FCCW. And the Firestarter O comes from Coventry which is under Allied control. :thumbsup:
Thinking of Coventry, I also have the PXH-3S in mind for a battallion (lighting company) commander. I may be late to the party but I am surprised how well the -3S holds up compared to other early renaissance designs.
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Were there any Kampfgruppe(n??) organized similar to the LCT's of the Fed-Suns? Or are the Kampfgruppe(n) really organized on a mission by mission basis.
Thank you
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So, with Alaric on Terra proclaiming himself to be both ilKhan of the Clans and First Lord of a new Star League, and with Clan Hell's Horses set to launch a de facto Trial of Refusal against him once the Fortress Wall around the Sol system finally drops (and to seize as much of the Jade Falcon OZ as they can in the meantime), what remains of the Lyran Commonwealth is about to confront a significantly changed set of circumstances in the near-to-mid future.
But, depending on whether or not Alaric manages to hold on to Terra, the prospect of some form of new Star League being made into a going concern is a real possibility, one way or another.
So, I was thinking: what if the Lyrans were offered a place in a new Star League... by the Hell's Horses?
Alaric has not relinquished his claim to the throne of Tharkad; he still refers to himself as "Alaric Steiner" to his formerly Lyran subjects in the Wolf Empire. (No doubt he'd similarly refer to himself as "Alaric Davion", were he to make significant inroads into the Federated Suns.) So long as he is alive, he remains an existential threat to any of his "cousins" who might hold their own claims to the Lyran throne.
But the Horses don't care at all about such things. Sure, the Great Father once went to the Nagelring, but the Scorpions would be the ones more interested in that historical detail. What the Horses care about is seizing enough of the JFOZ to support a run at Terra, while (ideally) still being in a position afterwards to maintain the ilClanship.
So, what if the Horses, in the wake of Tamar Rising, were to offer the Lyrans a deal: sign up to a Horse-led Star League, with the Archon assured a seat on the re-formed Council; accept a new border which more or less neatly divides the former JFOZ between both sides; and (assuming the Horses kick the Wolves off Terra) similarly split the Wolf Empire holdings in a reasonably equitable manner.
Going forward, the Horse touman would become akin to the "Royal" regiments of the original SLDF; the LCAF would transfer a portion of their armed forces into the "new" SLDF, while retaining the rest for home defence.
If some form of Star League was on the cards one way or another, this would help take the pressure off of the Commonwealth's spinward borders, act as leverage towards any other realms which might be encouraged to sign up to the new Star League (such as the Free Worlds League or the Timkuktu Collective), and perhaps enable the LCAF to focus on, say, getting rid of the Rim Territories.
Of course, we'll have to actually see where Tamar Rising leaves things in this region of space as of mid-3152. But if the Horses were to put such a deal were on the table, do you think House Steiner should accept it?
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So, with Alaric on Terra proclaiming himself to be both ilKhan of the Clans and First Lord of a new Star League, and with Clan Hell's Horses set to launch a de facto Trial of Refusal against him once the Fortress Wall around the Sol system finally drops (and to seize as much of the Jade Falcon OZ as they can in the meantime), what remains of the Lyran Commonwealth is about to confront a significantly changed set of circumstances in the near-to-mid future.
But, depending on whether or not Alaric manages to hold on to Terra, the prospect of some form of new Star League being made into a going concern is a real possibility, one way or another.
So, I was thinking: what if the Lyrans were offered a place in a new Star League... by the Hell's Horses?
Alaric has not relinquished his claim to the throne of Tharkad; he still refers to himself as "Alaric Steiner" to his formerly Lyran subjects in the Wolf Empire. (No doubt he'd similarly refer to himself as "Alaric Davion", were he to make significant inroads into the Federated Suns.) So long as he is alive, he remains an existential threat to any of his "cousins" who might hold their own claims to the Lyran throne.
But the Horses don't care at all about such things. Sure, the Great Father once went to the Nagelring, but the Scorpions would be the ones more interested in that historical detail. What the Horses care about is seizing enough of the JFOZ to support a run at Terra, while (ideally) still being in a position afterwards to maintain the ilClanship.
So, what if the Horses, in the wake of Tamar Rising, were to offer the Lyrans a deal: sign up to a Horse-led Star League, with the Archon assured a seat on the re-formed Council; accept a new border which more or less neatly divides the former JFOZ between both sides; and (assuming the Horses kick the Wolves off Terra) similarly split the Wolf Empire holdings in a reasonably equitable manner.
Going forward, the Horse touman would become akin to the "Royal" regiments of the original SLDF; the LCAF would transfer a portion of their armed forces into the "new" SLDF, while retaining the rest for home defence.
If some form of Star League was on the cards one way or another, this would help take the pressure off of the Commonwealth's spinward borders, act as leverage towards any other realms which might be encouraged to sign up to the new Star League (such as the Free Worlds League or the Timkuktu Collective), and perhaps enable the LCAF to focus on, say, getting rid of the Rim Territories.
Of course, we'll have to actually see where Tamar Rising leaves things in this region of space as of mid-3152. But if the Horses were to put such a deal were on the table, do you think House Steiner should accept it?
Honestly? they don't have the capability NOT to-unless they go all-in with Alaric's faction.
the Lyrans are in just that bad a shape, they're not likely to survive as an independent sovereign state (for many reasons). They need a large ally and a sponsor.
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Over in the Clan Hell's Horses thread, I noted how the Mongols (the real ones) helped to encourage trade across their domains by granting merchants access to their yam system of express communications.
With HPGs at a high premium, and with the Horses possessing a healthy surplus of JumpShips, perhaps one benefit to the Lyrans joining a Horse-led Star League would be if the Horses allowed Lyran commercial interests to make use of the Horses' "JumpShip express" network for long-distance communication purposes. Even if the Horse merchant caste were to skim off a portion of the proceeds for their own purposes, that would still be a boost for a realm dealing with its own JumpShip shortages.
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So, what do we make out of the IlClan TOC?
(https://i.ibb.co/28zHhn6/223364867-1259920867771583-662589478819915692-n.png)
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"Further Assimilation" is not a phrase that inspires confidence.
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Or "Prize or Punishment"? Sounds like how Katana Tormark was appointed Warlord Dieron when Dieron was still part of the Republic. Though "Lights o, no one's home" sounds as if the Lyrans figure out that the Falcon territory is open for grabs. Well here is hoping anyway.
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I will be honest I am not update on my LC knowledge base but do we have any good military leadership?
Because I assume during the"Peace of Stone" our social officers made command position much easier then anyone with good fighting sence did. I mean during the earlier years the only good LC commanders, appear to have ones that went Merc to get out from under the Social Generals..
Long live the Lryan Commonwealth
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If anything, the Commonwealth's problems with social generals seems to have gotten worse.
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I will be honest I am not update on my LC knowledge base but do we have any good military leadership?
Because I assume during the"Peace of Stone" our social officers made command position much easier then anyone with good fighting sence did. I mean during the earlier years the only good LC commanders, appear to have ones that went Merc to get out from under the Social Generals..
Long live the Lryan Commonwealth
The current head of the military is good (Roderick Frost or better to say Roderick Steiner) and some units have defintely great leaders. But I got the feeling that a lot of district leaders or members of High command are social generals and you kniow what that means: diversion of supplioes to units who have connections for example. Not the best way in such dire times
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For the social generals:
We need a cleansing like the French Revolution achieved, no longer officers with a long degenerated line of noble ancestors that simply made them officer by birth, but willing and able officers who lead their men well and strike fear into the hearts of our enemies.
For the past:
Do we have a butcher bill for the systems we lost since the 3130? Obviously most to the Falcons & Wolfes, but do we have some kind of detailed list?
For the future:
If we some how can ensure that our back is free of the Wolfes & League, we could really roll up the Falcon OZ, unless I misunderstood that the bird lost its feathers on Terra. Achieving a border with CHH would be nice(hopefully).
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Given we now know what Vedit Brewer and the 1st Hesperus Guards have been up to and the events from the novella detailing the rebirth of the Grey Death Legion i'm not overly hopefully the LCAF will be free of social generals and ambitious officers/nobles all seem to have their own agendas now
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Honestly, it feels like every time something happens, the Commonwealth's issues with social generals get worse. I mean, come on, there's got to be a point where someone in charge actually decides that there needs to be some major reforms in the LCAF because continuing to put idiots who couldn't even find their own butts with a map and a recon battalion in charge is not working. But somehow not even Adam Steiner seems to have tried to do anything about it.
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Honestly, it feels like every time something happens, the Commonwealth's issues with social generals get worse. I mean, come on, there's got to be a point where someone in charge actually decides that there needs to be some major reforms in the LCAF because continuing to put idiots who couldn't even find their own butts with a map and a recon battalion in charge is not working. But somehow not even Adam Steiner seems to have tried to do anything about it.
Organizational Inertia. Think about how an 'old boy' system works-you never GET someone in charge who can recognize the problem, because the process of getting into that position involves being part of the problem.
THUS, why the talent always goes Merc and leaves the service before they can get to a level to do something about the problem. The occasional flash of brilliance (Roderick, for example) never quite gets into a position to influence the situation over the longer term, because they only get to that level in a state of crisis, and end up exhausted, dead, or out of service after the crisis is over.
OR they've used up the talent that would let them make those changes in the crisis, leaving them stuck with the 'Old Boys' because nobody else knows where the paperclips are stored. Bureaucracies are notorious for both creating 'social general' type leadership, and keeping it in place despite multiple efforts to reform it.
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The problem is the level of inertia. Even with a century of having one of the most dangerous borders in the entire Inner Sphere (the Falcon occupation zone), and the sheer number of times that the LC has gotten mauled in combat (the Clan Invasion, the FedCom Civil War, the Jihad, the Dark Age) the LCAF somehow never gets reorganized and reforms somehow never happen. It feels less like actual bureaucracy issues and more like the writers just can't think of anything to do with the Commonwealth aside from making another joke about its incompetent leadership.
There was a justification given when Kathrine was in charge since she promoted officers based on how much they'd suck up to her rather than their performance and leadership abilities, but somehow since then every successive Archon seems to have done the exact same thing.
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The problem is the level of inertia. Even with a century of having one of the most dangerous borders in the entire Inner Sphere (the Falcon occupation zone), and the sheer number of times that the LC has gotten mauled in combat (the Clan Invasion, the FedCom Civil War, the Jihad, the Dark Age) the LCAF somehow never gets reorganized and reforms somehow never happen. It feels less like actual bureaucracy issues and more like the writers just can't think of anything to do with the Commonwealth aside from making another joke about its incompetent leadership.
There was a justification given when Kathrine was in charge since she promoted officers based on how much they'd suck up to her rather than their performance and leadership abilities, but somehow since then every successive Archon seems to have done the exact same thing.
what happens to competent officers in ongoing warfare?
If they're senior, they usually stay unless they're killed, but if they're junior, they tend to get killed because of incompetent seniors, and who stays behind?
your social general types.
Those repeated maulings just make it worse, since they're typically major cullings followed by ongoing grinds that use up or expend most of the talented ones who don't say '****** this' and go mercenary.
It actually makes things LESS likely to be reformed, since you're likely to see the competent ones first on the front lines, but with the institutional incompetence leaving them unsupported, or poorly supported, or under the command of imbeciles.
rinse and repeat, the darwinian selection process will cull the talented ones leaving the incompetent to breed and reproduce, and write the doctrine that is used to train the next crop of officers.
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Usually it's the exact opposite. When an intense war breaks out, the idiot commanders are the ones who are first to die because there is no safe back echelon for them to hang out in, sipping gin while practicing their back swing. This was the kind of fight where anyone who doesn't have a clue is going to get a Falcon Elemental's battle claw through their chest. There's a reason "he survived [brutal military campaign]" indicates that someone is a badass rather than an imbecile.
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Usually it's the exact opposite. When an intense war breaks out, the idiot commanders are the ones who are first to die because there is no safe back echelon for them to hang out in, sipping gin while practicing their back swing. This was the kind of fight where anyone who doesn't have a clue is going to get a Falcon Elemental's battle claw through their chest. There's a reason "he survived [brutal military campaign]" indicates that someone is a badass rather than an imbecile.
the problem ends up being the percentage of commanders who actually FACE those odds, as opposed to the wine-sippers who 'went on inspection' or were never put on the front in the first place-who have a much superior survival rate, and often make the contacts to get promoted faster while freezing out the actual combat vets.
Before the "Tower of power" (Airborne-Ranger-Special Forces tabs) was popularized, it used to be pretty much a guarantee that having all three of those would lock your career at Colonel, because the culture of the Pentagon didn't have room for 'dirty boys'.
That change only happened due to an extended period of few-to-no large combat actions in the 1970s and 1980s, and only then because promotion points were realigned at the Presidential level to make it essential for getting a star.
Now, consider what it takes to get the equivalent rank in a Feudal system, where who you're related to very well might be more important than what you've done in terms of promotions, and where NOT having those contacts means you're either a field animal, or you're not going to get promoted at all unless there's nobody from a 'good family' available to fill that slot instead.
It's not the kind of environment that either retains talented officers, or encourages them, and that's regardless of the darwinian pressures on the front line.
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Historically, hard fought wars have ended up with WORSE officer corps than peacetime about as often as they've resulted in GOOD officers. The problem comes from HOW your promotion systems work. The problem comes from 'using up' your best on repeated combat instead of rotating experience to training status. Some of the best examples of this include those German aces with kill counts in the hundreds during WW2, they got those kill counts by constantly being in combat, but that experience didn't filter to NEW pilots in training, the result was a decline in skill despite constant combat. (same thing happened with the Japanese during the same war), thus, while the Americans and British air forces got BETTER over-all tactically, the Luftwaffe and the Imperial Navy and Army declined.
If the same factors are in play with the Lyrans, with the same systems in place (and they are) all that combat's going to result in POORER performance over-all rather than higher rates of readiness and veterancy.
What happens, is that you either lose the talent to the private sector when they can't get promoted, or you lose it on the front lines through combat attrition, since all the secrets and techniques they learned don't get passed along.
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I just don't find it believable, especially considering that other factions have gone from being military jokes to military juggernauts in only a few in-universe years. Everyone seems to get a chance to be the winner once in a while. Except the Lyrans.
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I just don't find it believable, especially considering that other factions have gone from being military jokes to military juggernauts in only a few in-universe years. Everyone seems to get a chance to be the winner once in a while. Except the Lyrans.
There's always someone who's a designated 'sacrifice' and that role's belonged to the Lyrans since the war of 3039.
part of that, I suspect, is that it's just really easy to repeat what's been done before, and the LC has been everyone's battleground since the first day of the Clan Invasion storyline, but part of it has to also be properly assigned-they're in a bad position, with all the bad karma from having been part of a short-lived superstate, and all the bad karma of being used as a setting for conflict.
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ohh we have the military juggernaut down (look at the Wall of Steel we use)... just the social general which have been our curse since we were founded, miss handle it time and time again.
It so dug in, you would need someone like Liz Ngo, to come in and do the clean out, of the social officers from Lt on up in not just combat commands but the supply and logistics commands as well. And even then I'm guessing it would take 15 to 20 years to purge enough of them to totally fix our issues.
Can you image if we had used our assets and forged a proper military force???
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ohh we have the military juggernaut down (look at the Wall of Steel we use)... just the social general which have been our curse since we were founded, miss handle it time and time again.
It so dug in, you would need someone like Liz Ngo, to come in and do the clean out, of the social officers from Lt on up in not just combat commands but the supply and logistics commands as well. And even then I'm guessing it would take 15 to 20 years to purge enough of them to totally fix our issues.
Can you image if we had used our assets and forged a proper military force???
You will NEVER see a Canon equivalent to Liz Ngo. Why?? because it would utterly unbalance the structure that the various generations of development staff have put in place. certain stereotypes are simply 'baked in' to the Battletech setting, one of those, is that the Lyrans have the specific problems they have and can't make use of their advantages due to incompetence, needing someone from outside to do it for them.
from 3025 to 3080, that 'someone' has a hyphenated 'Davion' surname (Or just 'Davion') with the sole exceptions winding up being the Archon (for however briefly), or Mercenaries (See: Morgan Kell).
even in the current timeline, what happened to competent officers of the 26th? That's right, they wound up leaving under a cloud to go be the new GDL.
THIS is how it WORKS, and why you'll never see either a canonization of Liz (because they could do it if they wanted), or an equivalent character being created from whole cloth; her methods don't square with the intent of the developer staff.
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and all the bad karma of being used as a setting for conflict.
On the flip side, that means you can justify battles as a Lyran against virtually anyone. Other Lyrans and Feds? Civil War. Cappies? Guerrero. Kurita and Marik? Every Thursday. Clan Wolf, Jade Falcon, Steel Viper, Smoke Jaguar? Line up and take a number. Blakists? It all started here. As for the future, Hells Horses are coming to a Melissia Theater near you, and there's still chances for more.
And if Cannonshop is right and the Lyrans break up, well, that just leaves more people to fight on the battlefield. It's good to be a Lyran, we live in a target rich environment and anywhere you go it's an advance to contact.
Who's Liz Ngo by the way?
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wait the new GDL???
Who's Liz Ngo by the way?
a fanfic character of Cannonshop..
anbd I'm not saying canon Liz and her methods for logically fighting.. but her "Inquistion" role is what it would take to fix it, and years to do so
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On the flip side, that means you can justify battles as a Lyran against virtually anyone. Other Lyrans and Feds? Civil War. Cappies? Guerrero. Kurita and Marik? Every Thursday. Clan Wolf, Jade Falcon, Steel Viper, Smoke Jaguar? Line up and take a number. Blakists? It all started here. As for the future, Hells Horses are coming to a Melissia Theater near you, and there's still chances for more.
And if Cannonshop is right and the Lyrans break up, well, that just leaves more people to fight on the battlefield. It's good to be a Lyran, we live in a target rich environment and anywhere you go it's an advance to contact.
Who's Liz Ngo by the way?
Fanfic board as if you didn't know, Kamas, you've commented on the stories often enough-she's basically a fantasy because there is no way in hell a character like her will ever be given to the Lyrans, hence why she's fun to write in the fanfic boards.
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Fanfic board as if you didn't know, Kamas, you've commented on the stories often enough-she's basically a fantasy because there is no way in hell a character like her will ever be given to the Lyrans, hence why she's fun to write in the fanfic boards.
I don't read the Fanfic boards...wait, were you playing her back in the FGC a few boards back?
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I don't read the Fanfic boards...wait, were you playing her back in the FGC a few boards back?
yeah...a version, at least.
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I just don't find it believable, especially considering that other factions have gone from being military jokes to military juggernauts in only a few in-universe years. Everyone seems to get a chance to be the winner once in a while. Except the Lyrans.
Well there was the Operation audacity where the Lyrans, already battered, managed to give the Falcons a black eye (and those were mostly Lyran units with the support of two Davion units, the 2nd Crucis and 7th Crucis) and after the Jihad they actually managed to retake Pandora, an important manufacturing center. Unfortunatly Adam's successors managed to break everything. If the writers pattern the LC after German history we might get a rbirth arc in the future (akin to the creation of the Second German empire). One can hope.
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Well there was the Operation audacity where the Lyrans, already battered, managed to give the Falcons a black eye (and those were mostly Lyran units with the support of two Davion units, the 2nd Crucis and 7th Crucis) and after the Jihad they actually managed to retake Pandora, an important manufacturing center. Unfortunatly Adam's successors managed to break everything. If the writers pattern the LC after German history we might get a rbirth arc in the future (akin to the creation of the Second German empire). One can hope.
the pattern isn't so much German as germanic, in particular the HRE and Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth-the HRE of course collapsed into the Austrohungarian empire and Poland slowly ceased to exist until the treaties that ended WW1, then vanished again during WW2 for a time.
Mainly on account of being everyone else's favorite playground for waging various wars between the 15th and 19th centuries.
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I just don't find it believable, especially considering that other factions have gone from being military jokes to military juggernauts in only a few in-universe years. Everyone seems to get a chance to be the winner once in a while. Except the Lyrans.
The Lyrans absolutely crushed the 4th Succession War---and then promptly gave it all back to form the FRR. *Doh!*
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Well there was the Operation audacity where the Lyrans, already battered, managed to give the Falcons a black eye (and those were mostly Lyran units with the support of two Davion units, the 2nd Crucis and 7th Crucis) and after the Jihad they actually managed to retake Pandora, an important manufacturing center. Unfortunatly Adam's successors managed to break everything. If the writers pattern the LC after German history we might get a rbirth arc in the future (akin to the creation of the Second German empire). One can hope.
The thing about Audacity was that it was a counter to Falcon aggression and it still ended with a net loss of Lyran worlds. Reclaiming Pandora after the Jihad was nice... aside from the fact that it happened completely offscreen and by the time we heard about it the Falcons had already taken the world back.
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wait the new GDL???
Yep, the Acturan Guards RCT the Carlyle's were part of goes rogue from the LCAF, they and the others who remained loyal to the Commonwealth were then cashiered by the local commander, so chose to reform the GDL
See The Price of Duty for details.
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Maybe we should change perspective away from in-universe.
The question is, are TPTB done with the downfall of the LC?
I guess so because someone has to take over the Falcon OZ and I doubt that all goes to the CHH & CGB while the LC is flushed further down the drain. That would make the Clans up there too strong compared to the further weakened LC.
For the LC it's now or never, although it's clear that the resurrection of the LC isn't a question of if but rather of when it will happen.
So I imaging the Falcon OZ gets ripped apart and the LC as well as CHH & CGB take what they can.
That may improve the LC's situation so far that they also can deal with the Wolfs.
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Yep, the Acturan Guards RCT the Carlyle's were part of goes rogue from the LCAF, they and the others who remained loyal to the Commonwealth were then cashiered by the local commander, so chose to reform the GDL
See The Price of Duty for details.
Wait there a surviving Carlyle or lead by someone else?
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Yeah. Alex, Grayson's son, actually survived the Jihad- he'd been working as a guerilla fighting the WoB on Tharkad the whole time. Adam Steiner named him Duke of Odessa. The leader/founder of the current GDL is his grandson.
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Maybe we should change perspective away from in-universe.
The question is, are TPTB done with the downfall of the LC?
I guess so because someone has to take over the Falcon OZ and I doubt that all goes to the CHH & CGB while the LC is flushed further down the drain. That would make the Clans up there too strong compared to the further weakened LC.
For the LC it's now or never, although it's clear that the resurrection of the LC isn't a question of if but rather of when it will happen.
So I imaging the Falcon OZ gets ripped apart and the LC as well as CHH & CGB take what they can.
That may improve the LC's situation so far that they also can deal with the Wolfs.
I don't know, among other things it sure does look like the LC is ignoring a new Rim Worlds Republic metastasizing on its border (and that malignantly) in favor of another direct clash over Bolan. There's still a ways to fall yet.
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I don't know, among other things it sure does look like the LC is ignoring a new Rim Worlds Republic metastasizing on its border (and that malignantly) in favor of another direct clash over Bolan. There's still a ways to fall yet.
That one was really obvious a while ago, not sure you need to spoiler it.
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I was just in the process of posting about how, in a sense, what is happening along the Commonwealth's anti-spinward and rimward borders is the effective creation of a revitalized "Rift zone".
As of the data in IlClan and in The Price of Duty, plus the glimpse at the campaign map from Tamar Rising in a recently-tweeted image (https://twitter.com/catalystgamelab/status/1420538758097633281), all but one of the worlds on the "Lyran" portion of the Timbuktu Collective had been part of the Rim Worlds Republic's Timbuktu Province prior to Operation ALMARIC; while four Rim Territories worlds were on the Lyran side of the old 2765 map, their other planets appear to be re-named (or perhaps re-colonized) from worlds in the former Finmark Province; while Melissia was formerly part of Apollo Province. Even the hints at an expanded Clan Hell's Horses OZ on that glimpse of the Tamar Rising campaign map suggest that a portion of their new borders with the reconstituted Tamar Pact and the Vesper Marches runs across former Rim Worlds territory. This, added to the Barrens and the Chainelane Isles, brings more of the former Rim Worlds zone into an array of, if not quite remnants, but perhaps heirs of a different kind to the old Republic's legacy.
So in a sense, the Commonwealth has partly undone ALMARIC... in part thanks to Alaric.
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Maybe we should change perspective away from in-universe.
The question is, are TPTB done with the downfall of the LC?
I guess so because someone has to take over the Falcon OZ and I doubt that all goes to the CHH & CGB while the LC is flushed further down the drain. That would make the Clans up there too strong compared to the further weakened LC.
For the LC it's now or never, although it's clear that the resurrection of the LC isn't a question of if but rather of when it will happen.
So I imaging the Falcon OZ gets ripped apart and the LC as well as CHH & CGB take what they can.
That may improve the LC's situation so far that they also can deal with the Wolfs.
Well we know from IlClan and The Price of Duty that at least two new nations are trying to rise in the Falcon OZ. Might give the LC a buffer from the HH and RD but that doesn't help the Commonwealth get back on its feet.
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So I am now reading Tamar Rising and whilst we have regained some lost worlds I feel the best chance we have to make a larger gain is to get the Vesper Marches, ARLC and Tamar Pact back on side, not sure how we do that mind you.
I'd guess there is also a chance we could get the AML into the Commonwealth as they seem to share a number of values with the Lyran state.
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So I am now reading Tamar Rising and whilst we have regained some lost worlds I feel the best chance we have to make a larger gain is to get the Vesper Marches, ARLC and Tamar Pact back on side, not sure how we do that mind you.
I'd guess there is also a chance we could get the AML into the Commonwealth as they seem to share a number of values with the Lyran state.
Or let one of them take over the Lyran Commonwealth?
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Or let one of them take over the Lyran Commonwealth?
six of one, half a dozen of the other. Thinking about it, since 3049 or so, the Lyrans have been almost everyone else's battleground (as well as fighting themselves). How much "Lyran" is there, really? The Clans took around 40% of their territory including one of the founding alliances back in the 3050s, and there was never a serious effort to reverse that afterward. (Adam Steiner's salient really doesn't count, it's a tiny little tendril that subsequently went nowhere until it was gobbled up again.)
Kind of the REAL central europe analog of Battletech-more of a grounds for various actual factions to do their stompy, but that's really all they've ever been in the narrative.
The Combine (with everyone, including Lyran help) regained their lost territory by the end of the 3060s and never really had that walked back.
Rassalhague absorbed and assimilated their conquerors without losing their...anything.
The FWL broke out in civil war, but when aren't they? even in their history they've always been just a touch too crazy to be completely stable-notably, they ARE stable enough that neither the Lyrans, nor the Cappies, have ever taken signifcant amounts of territory for long before losing it back.
FedSuns? well, okay, but the Suns don't have as much of their territory occupied even now, and it's been less than a generation.
But the Lyrans.... Sigh... oh, goodness. 40% or more of their land, including quite a bit of their pre-3049 industry, has been occupied territory going on a century, and that's not including the portion they handed to Devlin Stone without a fight, or the huge pieces eaten out of them by Clan Wolf...arguably at their invitation, they lost another swathe before the phones even went down to Bandits on their periphery who were strong enough to DO THAT.
The Lyran state has been on a death spiral almost since Melissa started sqirting out heirs, with no REAL effort to stem the losses of their constant losses.
I'd argue that the Lyran (Insert word) has been in a malaise and death spiral for generations now, almost a century. House Steiner has, effectively, failed.
Maybe it's time for something different just based on that alone. (Especially considering that their most competent, read 'best' military personnel would rather work for just about anybody else.)
In the Canon, we even get an explanation, in the form of rampant incompetence. Arguably, "Social Generals" can be examined as being not merely bad at strategy and tactics, but also bad at the administrative underpinnings that make strategy and tactics work. (Whole regions don't flee your banner if you're good at administration. you don't lose whole regiments of crack troops if you are good at keeping them fed and equipped.)
So...why shouldn't someone, pinned antispinward of earth, coreward of the Wolf Empire, but spinward of that nest of pirates, NOT decide that maybe it's a better idea to just give it up, and surrender to the least oppressive neighbor, one that may actually have the competency and commitment to defend your world (something that House Steiner has demonstrated lacks in on both fronts-when they're competent, they're not committed, when they're committed, they're not competent.)
This sets up several narrative directions, one of which, is a redemption arc like we saw with the Cappies-but it would require Trillian to be an effective and dynamic leader with quite a bit of intelligence and a lot of competent people holding her up-and that's not really visible, so it's a low probability. Alternately a successor or heir could do it, but she has neither in the canon.
It would, however, be a pretty GOOD redemption arc...it's just not a likely one.
The task would require something we don't often see with Lyran leaders-there have been exceptions; Katrina (not Katherine) Steiner (not Steiner-Davion), Frederick "Anastasius Focht" Steiner (who, true to form, wound up being someone else's general instead.)
but it's something we don't often see, and likely won't see. A lyran state with competent leaders whom are also committed to the nation? Unlikely. Such tend to die rather quickly.
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So I am now reading Tamar Rising and whilst we have regained some lost worlds I feel the best chance we have to make a larger gain is to get the Vesper Marches, ARLC and Tamar Pact back on side, not sure how we do that mind you.
ARLC is already Lyran loyalist, they just refuse to fallow Trillian's orders. Which is understandable, her orders largely consist of "hold your ground and do not retake our lost territory no matter how undefended it may be" because she refuses to let military units operate without a line of communication to Tharkad. If Trillian doesn't freak out too much over being ignored, I doubt they'll move from being disobedient loyalists to outright secessionists.
The Tamar Pact has no desire to rejoin the Lyrans at the moment, but the Lyrans are willing to at least talk to them. It's possible (probable even) that they'll be set up as a pro-Lyran buffer state, and the Commonwealth will be aiming to reabosrb them in the future.
The Vesper Marches would probably rejoin the Lyrans tomorrow is anything unfortunate happened to Vedet Brewer, since their rationale for secession appears to be "he's here protecting us and Trillian isn't". I'd get Loki on that as soon as possible.
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The Vesper Marches would probably rejoin the Lyrans tomorrow is anything unfortunate happened to Vedet Brewer, since their rationale for secession appears to be "he's here protecting us and Trillian isn't". I'd get Loki on that as soon as possible.
I would rather offer Vedet a chance to get his dukedom back for bringing the Marches back into the Commonwealth. Keep him close then, obviously.
Crush the new Tamar Pact as soon as possible to send a message, and offer Arc-Royal autonomy and even support in exchange for fealty. And we are one family again.
Crushing Vedet and offer the Tamarians a chance to the return would work, too, but I am not sure if they want that.
The task would require something we don't often see with Lyran leaders-there have been exceptions; Katrina (not Katherine) Steiner (not Steiner-Davion), Frederick "Anastasius Focht" Steiner (who, true to form, wound up being someone else's general instead.)
The list of competent Lyran military leaders is quite long if one considers people like Linda McDonald. Thing is that people like Sharon Bryan seem to outrank them quite often.
Right now, my hope rests on Roderic. ...which, if you look up the name, is not exactly comforting.
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I would rather offer Vedet a chance to get his dukedom back for bringing the Marches back into the Commonwealth. Keep him close then, obviously.
Crush the new Tamar Pact as soon as possible to send a message, and offer Arc-Royal autonomy and even support in exchange for fealty. And we are one family again.
Crushing Vedet and offer the Tamarians a chance to the return would work, too, but I am not sure if they want that.
The list of competent Lyran military leaders is quite long if one considers people like Linda McDonald. Thing is that people like Sharon Bryan seem to outrank them quite often.
Right now, my hope rests on Roderic. ...which, if you look up the name, is not exactly comforting.
The problem isn't merely competency, it's commitment. There are LOTS of competent Lyrans, the Mercenary trade is FILLED with them, while, as you observed, the incompetent, or the uncommitted or god help us both, tend to be what holds the driving seat for the Lyran state most of the time.
actually, damn near ALL the time.
and my contention is, it's not merely restricted to the military. Why? because a good executive isn't going to keep armed morons on his security staff unless there's nothing else available *(and often won't even then-sometimes having no guards is safer than having Keystone Kops guards.)
It's a deep problem in the Steiner administration, and likely has been all along-they don't RETAIN enough good people and those people almost never reach positions where they can have an impact-and when they do? it's never enough of an impact to stem the loss before they're out again either because of someone who is less competent and less committed (or less Competent, or less committed) replacing them, or because they themselves suffer degradation and become incompetent or burned out and no longer committed.
I really have wondered since MWDA whether the Lyrans would have had the same problems if Andrew had lived. Not a strong wonder, but a wonder. His demise to food poisoning strikes me as being more 'poisoning' than 'food'-IOW more intentional than accidental. I say this, because the guy wasn't Archon for long, and his death seems...pretty handy for both internal corruption purposes as well as Devlin Stone.
and internal corruption is what I'm hinting at here. The whole 'social general' system, as well as the NEED for an internal terror organization, points to corruption and inefficiency throughout the entire governmental structure of the Lyran State, further highlighted by the tendency of that nation to lose their best military minds to the international market, while retaining generals of such inability that they make Ambrose Burnside look like Erwin Rommel.
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I think the real problem with the Lyran state isn’t that the Social Generals are incompetent; it’s that they don’t fear any repercussions. And no well known General has faced any consequences really since Frederick Steiner in the 4th Succession War.
And Cannonshop, I also subscribe to the Devlin Stone probably had a hand in poisoning the food of Archon Andrew Steiner. Andrew was actually looking to upset the balance Stone thought he needed to create the Stoner Sphere, so of course, you kill him nicely with a bad soup. That way he doesn’t upset people and no one know except for him, the Ghost Knight, and Ghost Paladin.
There is a reason that I hate Chicken Boo Stone.
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The problem isn't merely competency, it's commitment. There are LOTS of competent Lyrans, the Mercenary trade is FILLED with them, while, as you observed, the incompetent, or the uncommitted or god help us both, tend to be what holds the driving seat for the Lyran state most of the time.
Somehow remindes me of the forming of the SLDF: Steiner officers were held in contempt because most of them were simply useless as battlefield commanders while the Lyran NCO's were praised as being a cut above the rest because they were the real brains of the Lyran military. And while Victoria was at least somewhat pragmatic (when "social officers" demanded being called back because they had to serve in battles she simply pointed out "Then don't serve in the military") she didn't manage to change the entire structure.
In TRO 3074 House Steiner is described as a nation that should have long been eroded were it not for it's huge industry especially replacing material looses in their military. And if we look at the Jihad that is the point where the Blakists started: occupying vital planets like Hesperus 2, Coventry, Donegal and Tharkad. And now in the Dark Age we see similar things.
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Somehow remindes me of the forming of the SLDF: Steiner officers were held in contempt because most of them were simply useless as battlefield commanders while the Lyran NCO's were praised as being a cut above the rest because they were the real brains of the Lyran military. And while Victoria was at least somewhat pragmatic (when "social officers" demanded being called back because they had to serve in battles she simply pointed out "Then don't serve in the military") she didn't manage to change the entire structure.
In TRO 3074 House Steiner is described as a nation that should have long been eroded were it not for it's huge industry especially replacing material looses in their military. And if we look at the Jihad that is the point where the Blakists started: occupying vital planets like Hesperus 2, Coventry, Donegal and Tharkad. And now in the Dark Age we see similar things.
I think the real problem with the Lyran state isn’t that the Social Generals are incompetent; it’s that they don’t fear any repercussions. And no well known General has faced any consequences really since Frederick Steiner in the 4th Succession War.
And Cannonshop, I also subscribe to the Devlin Stone probably had a hand in poisoning the food of Archon Andrew Steiner. Andrew was actually looking to upset the balance Stone thought he needed to create the Stoner Sphere, so of course, you kill him nicely with a bad soup. That way he doesn’t upset people and no one know except for him, the Ghost Knight, and Ghost Paladin.
There is a reason that I hate Chicken Boo Stone.
There's an upside to the problems I pointed out. The upside is, it's good background for stories, with lots of plot hooks for intrigue and making your POV or player character into a real hero.
After all, if it's easy, it isn't heroic.
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[...]the tendency of that nation to lose their best military minds to the international market, while retaining generals of such inability that they make Ambrose Burnside look like Erwin Rommel.[...]
While I agree with most of your assessment, I would not go that far.
Many competent soldiers become mercenaries, but many of them are mercs in name only. Units like the Gray Death Legion and Kell Hounds (and to a lesser extent even the Blue Star Irregulars) are basically house units operating outside the LCAF. While they would take a contract offered by an ally of the Commonwealth, they are staunch loyalists and would never turn on their Lyran compatriots.
As for the LCAF/LAAF... one tends to focus on the Bryans and Hogarths while overlooking the McDonalds or Ciampas. And for some weird reason, Nondi Steiner's military savvy regressed massively with age, but initially she was a quite good commander.
I think in recent years this problem has been overstated, especially compared to other Successor States. The very nature of feudal societies (pseudo-feudal as they may be in BT) means that incompetent people rise through the ranks.
And looking at the current situation, the military leadership under Roderic seems to be the least of the Lyran problem's.
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While I agree with most of your assessment, I would not go that far.
Many competent soldiers become mercenaries, but many of them are mercs in name only. Units like the Gray Death Legion and Kell Hounds (and to a lesser extent even the Blue Star Irregulars) are basically house units operating outside the LCAF. While they would take a contract offered by an ally of the Commonwealth, they are staunch loyalists and would never turn on their Lyran compatriots.
Well, the fact that some of the top soldiers the Lyran nation produces put themselves in positions where they can still defend the Commonwealth against its foes but are outside the direct reach of the Lyran military chain of command still doesn't speak well of the latter.
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Well, the fact that some of the top soldiers the Lyran nation produces put themselves in positions where they can still defend the Commonwealth against its foes but are outside the direct reach of the Lyran military chain of command still doesn't speak well of the latter.
I did not say it does. I object to the 'losing to the international market'-part, because they still defend the Commonwealth's intrest. Again, not a good situation, but not an even worse situation of just any top graduate fighting for any highest bidder.
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I did not say it does. I object to the 'losing to the international market'-part, because they still defend the Commonwealth's intrest. Again, not a good situation, but not an even worse situation of just any top graduate fighting for any highest bidder.
My intent was closer to this:
Well, the fact that some of the top soldiers the Lyran nation produces put themselves in positions where they can still defend the Commonwealth against its foes but are outside the direct reach of the Lyran military chain of command still doesn't speak well of the latter.
Though I admit I may have somewhat oversimplified, the fundamental problem here, is that it's not a temporary situation-it's a sustained state of being, covering Generations.
Which points to a deeper malaise that, well...like I said earlier, it makes for a good background for certain types of story, but it's not a sustainable situation for a nation-state, never mind an empire.
In a way, while the canon points to the FWL as the equivalent of the Austro-hungarian empire with its internal strife, the Lyran Commonwealth actually shows more evidence of being the HRE of the Inner Sphere (Or the actual Austria-Hungary).
What the Lyrans need, and probably won't get, is a Bismarck-someone (not the Archon) who can knit those statelets back together in the Archon's name. To me that would be an awesome plotline, but it's not one that's likely to happen.
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What the Lyrans need, and probably won't get, is a Bismarck-someone (not the Archon) who can knit those statelets back together in the Archon's name. To me that would be an awesome plotline, but it's not one that's likely to happen.
You are right on both points, unfortunately.
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Now that I think about it, it really doesn't seem like any of the breakaway states are hostile to the Lyrans. Hostile to Trillian Steiner, perhaps, but all of them seem to be dedicated to protecting Lyran worlds that they (correctly) feel the Lyran state has abandoned.
The Timbuktu Collective only exists because the Florida TTM had to fight a rebellion for more than a year unsupported before the Commonwealth deigned to actually protect itself. After they broke away and became the 1st Timbuktu Guards, all they've done is protect Lyran planets from pirate raids (notably, the Commonwealth itself isn't showing up to these fights). Every world they've taken from the Commonwealth has joined voluntarily. If there aren't ideological reasons for defecting (I note that the worlds leaving are places that Democracy Now was strong on, that the Collective is probably just a rebrand of the Rim Collection's government) it's simply because Timbuktu's protecting them and Tharkad isn't.
The Vesper Marches exist purely because the 1st Hesperus Guards showed up to defend Melissa instead of a loyal Lyran unit. Arc-Royal isn't following Trillian's orders, but that's because her orders are "stop liberating Lyran planets and send your leadership to Tharkad so I can make them assume the defensive posture the rest of the Lyran forces are in". The Tamar Pact has an actual secessionist national identity, but they're only interested in conquering ex-Tamar Pact worlds, to the point that they've completely ignored the power vacuum in Skye, which would be an easy expansion route, in favor of fighting Jiyi Chistu's Falcons.
Point being, none of these states seem to be an actual threat to what remains of the Commonwealth for the foreseeable future. The Commonwealth doesn't really lose anything due to their existence, because they've only taken worlds the Commonwealth dedicated no forces to taking or holding anyway. But simply by existing, they increase the Commonwealth's security by providing difficult to digest buffer space. This should allow the Commonwealth to redirect it's forces to repelling the invasion from the Rim Territories, and retaking worlds lost to the Wolf Empire.
tl;dr while the separatists might have been produced by the weakness of the Lyran state, they don't seem to be weakening it. They seem to be improving it's overall strategic position. If Trillian's smart, she'll seek rapprochement with the breakaways. They can always be reconquered after they've served their purpose, after all.
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Makes you wonder if we might see the start of a Skye Federation in the next book, after all you've got all those unclaimed worlds.
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Makes you wonder if we might see the start of a Skye Federation in the next book, after all you've got all those unclaimed worlds.
Tiocfaidh ár lá! No, wait, that's Irish, and the Irish part of the Lyran state has been generally forgotten whereas you can't swing a Mad Cat in the BT IP without hitting a Scot. :D
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Tiocfaidh ár lá! No, wait, that's Irish, and the Irish part of the Lyran state has been generally forgotten whereas you can't swing a Mad Cat in the BT IP without hitting a Scot. :D
Hey, Donegal is still there and begs to differ, although it does irk my FedSuns playing mate, who's of Irish decent that all the Regiments with Irish nicknames/connections are in the LCAF and not in the AFFS.
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Hey, Donegal is still there
Well, that's kind of my point. Donegal is supposed to be Irish-flavored but it's always just... been there, whereas Skye shenanigans take up multiple books, there's the Northwind Highlanders, the Black Watch, Davis McCall...
I guess Stackpole made a bit more effort to play up the Irish-ness of the Kell Hounds in the newer novellas, although it's still mainly only reflected in JumpShips names and stuff like that.
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Donegal, with the continent of Seattle upon which the city of Queen Anne is located.
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The very nature of feudal societies (pseudo-feudal as they may be in BT) means that incompetent people rise through the ranks.
I felt the same until I read about the Spanish Armada. The guy in charge of the Armada is treated by history as a fool, but in reality he had a hell of a CV.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alonso_P%C3%A9rez_de_Guzm%C3%A1n_y_Sotomayor,_7th_Duke_of_Medina_Sidonia
(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alonso_P%C3%A9rez_de_Guzm%C3%A1n_y_Sotomayor,_7th_Duke_of_Medina_Sidonia)
Feudal societies have different priorities. Eg You can't trust your subordinates to do what they are told. So nepotism makes more sense. Education isn't fairly spread, so the nobles are the ones with the literacy and math skills to do the staff work to keep a nation or army going.
Something in the Lyran system selects for those who can successfully navigate court politics. If a person can do that they clearly aren't incompetent.
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But they are frequently incompetent on subjects like military matters, which has had disastrous results.
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But how many of the Lyran military leaders are actually incompetent 'now'?
Browsing FM:3145 and other recent publications, the majority of the Lyran generals and higher officers is portrayed as dutyful and ressourceful. In fact I only found one reference to "less skilled" officers: the 14th Lyran Regulars were purged of their pro-Brewer leadership and replaced will lesser, but loyal officers - which I would see as the result of manpower shortage rather than poor management.
Also, the combat performance - when not confronted with insurmountable odds - does not seem to be bad, either. On the contrary, the battles of Coventry and Hesperus II prove the Lyrans can fight. Then there is Roderick who surely knows his stuff. In terms of military capabilities, competence is not the problem. Lack of ressources is.
That is a reversal of what Lyran forces are used to, and adapting to that is tough. But tough times create tough people. Yes, we see a smaller, weaker LCAF. We see a disillusioned force, weary and at its breaking point. Yet despite it all, the LCAF has competent soldiers. The blade is chipped but damn sharp. No longer the blunt instrument of old, Trillian will have to use it wisely but I think there are ways to do so.
tl;dr while the separatists might have been produced by the weakness of the Lyran state, they don't seem to be weakening it. They seem to be improving it's overall strategic position. If Trillian's smart, she'll seek rapprochement with the breakaways. They can always be reconquered after they've served their purpose, after all.
You make good points. Especially the patriotic seperatists can be turned into an assett, and they can return with relative ease. Frame them as loyal citizens who temporarily prefer automy from the Archon, which Tharkad gracefully grants them as long as they serve Lyran intrests. But still, Trillian needs to send a message that a permanent break with the Lyran state itself cannot be accepted.
One of those breakaway states needs to be brutally destroyed.
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One of those breakaway states needs to be brutally destroyed.
Please not Timbuktu :( let the Rim have something nice, just this once
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Please not Timbuktu :( let the Rim have something nice, just this once
They're the obvious choice though.
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They're the obvious choice though.
That's why I'm resorting to begging. The Rim Collection and now Timbuktu Collective are the only good thing to happen to the ex-RWR since... actually, it's the only good thing to ever happen to that region of space. Trillian wrecking it just to send a message would be immensely disappointing.
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That's why I'm resorting to begging. The Rim Collection and now Timbuktu Collective are the only good thing to happen to the ex-RWR since... actually, it's the only good thing to ever happen to that region of space. Trillian wrecking it just to send a message would be immensely disappointing.
I doubt the region would nesscarily be destroyed but I'd expect a few executions and property seizures.
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I doubt the region would nesscarily be destroyed but I'd expect a few executions and property seizures.
Well she might pull a Adam Steiner on how to deal with rebellious regions. Remember what he did with Duchess La Rue? Sending 2 RCT's wrecking the capital of said region and then arrests the rebellious leader.
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Well she might pull a Adam Steiner on how to deal with rebellious regions. Remember what he did with Duchess La Rue? Sending 2 RCT's wrecking the capital of said region and then arrests the rebellious leader.
Well 1 RCT and 1 LCT.
Did the trick though.
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Trillian needs to do something, and she needs to do it SOON. the LC's coming apart
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Trillian needs to do something, and she needs to do it SOON. the LC's coming apart
She doesn't have a lot to work with. Melissa left her an empty treasury (so good luck paying mercenaries or buying the loyalty of the nobility), a fleet too small permit offensive actions and maintaining lines of communication/supply at the same time, and a massive Wolf Empire salient which means that the Commonwealth's most important industrial and political centers are essentially frontline worlds.
When she did try to do something, the Buena rebellion, it took her two years to be able to bring Lyran forces to bear. If it hadn't been for locals acting on their own initiative (without orders or support) in the interim, she would probably have lost the whole province, and the Lyran Commonwealth would pretty much have lost Great House status. The problem isn't that she's some sort of idiot, it's that the Commonwealth simply doesn't have the resources to maintain it's territorial integrity.
However, this will change soon. Alaric took his entire touman to Terra, took horrific casualties, and is pinned down there - if he redeploys, Daoshen Liao takes Terra and he'll go down in history as the guy who won and lost the Ilkhanate. So the front can be pushed away from the Commonwealth's jugular, freeing up some forces. More significantly (Tamar Rising spoilers) as of 3152, Clan Sea Fox has figured out how to restore the HPG network. Without her transport assets tied up, Trillian will be able to go on the offensive again. This actually kind of bums me out, I like the breakaway states, and at this point they don't look likely to last a decade.
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She doesn't have a lot to work with. Melissa left her an empty treasury (so good luck paying mercenaries or buying the loyalty of the nobility), a fleet too small permit offensive actions and maintaining lines of communication/supply at the same time, and a massive Wolf Empire salient which means that the Commonwealth's most important industrial and political centers are essentially frontline worlds.
When she did try to do something, the Buena rebellion, it took her two years to be able to bring Lyran forces to bear. If it hadn't been for locals acting on their own initiative (without orders or support) in the interim, she would probably have lost the whole province, and the Lyran Commonwealth would pretty much have lost Great House status. The problem isn't that she's some sort of idiot, it's that the Commonwealth simply doesn't have the resources to maintain it's territorial integrity.
However, this will change soon. Alaric took his entire touman to Terra, took horrific casualties, and is pinned down there - if he redeploys, Daoshen Liao takes Terra and he'll go down in history as the guy who won and lost the Ilkhanate. So the front can be pushed away from the Commonwealth's jugular, freeing up some forces. More significantly (Tamar Rising spoilers) as of 3152, Clan Sea Fox has figured out how to restore the HPG network. Without her transport assets tied up, Trillian will be able to go on the offensive again. This actually kind of bums me out, I like the breakaway states, and at this point they don't look likely to last a decade.
I agree, once the HPGs go up it changes everything and I could see that swinging things VERY dramaticly very fast.
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Yes we might see the Breakaway states coming into the fold but first Trillian has to secure her own territories lost that is closer to home. We may have heard of the Sea Foxes repairing an HPG but we may not see the full effect for the next ten to twenty years and attitudes (and loyalties) may have changed. What I want to see is a book or short story in the iClan Era where the Lyran units are not treated as punching bags.
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I agree, once the HPGs go up it changes everything and I could see that swinging things VERY dramaticly very fast.
The question would be WHO actually gets access to the cheat code "Activate HPG"? I mean we had two decades and ONE succesful repair and then out of nowhere the HPG's run again. Who wouldn't keep this trick to themselves?
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To my knowledge it's only one HPG that the Foxes brought back online, and not a wide-spanning "we solved the problem, just do X" solution. I could be wrong, if someone who has Tamar Rising wants to chime in on this.
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To my knowledge it's only one HPG that the Foxes brought back online, and not a wide-spanning "we solved the problem, just do X" solution. I could be wrong, if someone who has Tamar Rising wants to chime in on this.
You're petty much on the mark there. They got two HPGs in neighbouring systems to talk to each other with a lot of 'noise' on the line. That's hardly a system-wide fix
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She doesn't have a lot to work with. Melissa left her an empty treasury (so good luck paying mercenaries or buying the loyalty of the nobility), a fleet too small permit offensive actions and maintaining lines of communication/supply at the same time, and a massive Wolf Empire salient which means that the Commonwealth's most important industrial and political centers are essentially frontline worlds.
The problem isn't that she's some sort of idiot, it's that the Commonwealth simply doesn't have the resources to maintain it's territorial integrity.
My own impression of Trillian too. It's understandable that some Lyran generals or JQ Public might see her as weak and stupid, but IMHO it's more a case of Trillian playing the shitty hand she was dealt as best she can. Like the Imperium of Man in 40k, mere survival is (or should be) justly hailed as victory for the LC right now. Unfortunately manipulating the two Clans into hitting each other on Hesperus and using LIC agents to foment uprisings aren't the sort of victories glory-hounds want to see.
You're petty much on the mark there. They got two HPGs in neighbouring systems to talk to each other with a lot of 'noise' on the line. That's hardly a system-wide fix
Plus there's also the chance that both HPGs were already among the 20% still working and Clan Sea Fox just formally took over ComStar's duties, although I don't remember seeing either listed as working HPGs before now so maybe they really did restore the network. IIRC from the Tamar Rising thread there will be more revelations about this in the next two books.
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You're petty much on the mark there. They got two HPGs in neighbouring systems to talk to each other with a lot of 'noise' on the line. That's hardly a system-wide fix
Was there any mention what happened to Tucker Harwell? He was the one who reactivated the Wyatt HPG (was that permanent? The novel made it seem that way). He also found Devlin Stone in his cryo chamber and found all his plans like Clarion Call. Is he now part of the Wolves? Or did he manage to escape yet again? That might be our next Jerome Blake should he manage to get a "dead" station run again.
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Nothing since he left stones hospital room.
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Nothing since he left stones hospital room.
In fact Ilclan specificly notes he DISSAPPERED..
from Ilclan
Hospital staff attempted to locate Tucker Harwell to inform
him of Stone’s passing, but he had already left the premises. His
whereabouts are unknown.
[IlKhan, as of this writing, Tucker Harwell remains at large. Either
he is more astute than we ever gave him credit for, or he has powerful
friends capable of hiding him from us. In either case, my agents are
committed to finding him before he can do any further damage. —
Spurlock Conners]
I'm gonna toss out a theory... the sea foxes covertly helped him escape in return for assistance with the HPGs
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Personally I hope that it was a Comstar offshoot. Sea Foxes can’t have all the fun and I want to see some competition for them. And no I do not want another religious group praising the great machines been there done that.
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Personally I hope that it was a Comstar offshoot. Sea Foxes can’t have all the fun and I want to see some competition for them. And no I do not want another religious group praising the great machines been there done that.
Well technically there should still be a Word of Blake group out there in the void with some Warships and even some divisions of troops. Then again maybe they just died of or isolated themselves so much that they have been never heard of again. Tucker is the one joker that everyone will try to get. The Sea Foxes make the most sense at the moment since they managed to get a station somehow running. And let's not forget while the Republic might have fallen there should still be some Ghost Knights left who do their own stuff (Alexi Holt comes to mind) and amybe they hid him until the real storm is over. Though having Tucker commit some form of "Holy shroud" would be funny too. Imagine the headline "Ilclan brought down by nerd. Read more"
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It would be interesting see how a Blakest unit resurfacing would be received, i'd imagine the Regulan Hussars for instance would revert to type and try and make them glow in the dark.
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Just some random observation on the (narrative) use of brigades... I would be intrested to know if you share it:
In the past, the Lyran Guards were front and center. 10th obviously, but also 11th (Operation Serpent), and the FCCW had them in every major battle. Now, they were hit hard by the Wolves and basically only keep existing because they are the Lyran Guards.
But the great victories of recent years were mostly the doing of the Arcturan Guards. The 23rd won Hesperus II, the 20th and 25th were instrumental in the battle of Tharkad (albeit destroyed and used to reinforce the 17th), the 15th and 17th then won Coventry.
And what happens now? The Tamar thing (not sure if still a spoiler, so I won't spell it out). I am very worried about that development and the implications it has on the loyalties of the Arcturans, arguably the most important brigade of recent years. ...all while the traditionally important Lyran Guards are a shadow of their former self.
And yes, I agree that the Arcturans have always been indispensable, and if anything the pre-FCCW narration downplayed their role, but still I have a bad feeling about it all. It seems right now a brigade like the Lyran Guards is most needed.
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Just some random observation on the (narrative) use of brigades... I would be intrested to know if you share it:
In the past, the Lyran Guards were front and center. 10th obviously, but also 11th (Operation Serpent), and the FCCW had them in every major battle. Now, they were hit hard by the Wolves and basically only keep existing because they are the Lyran Guards.
But the great victories of recent years were mostly the doing of the Arcturan Guards. The 23rd won Hesperus II, the 20th and 25th were instrumental in the battle of Tharkad (albeit destroyed and used to reinforce the 17th), the 15th and 17th then won Coventry.
And what happens now? The Tamar thing (not sure if still a spoiler, so I won't spell it out). I am very worried about that development and the implications it has on the loyalties of the Arcturans, arguably the most important brigade of recent years. ...all while the traditionally important Lyran Guards are a shadow of their former self.
And yes, I agree that the Arcturans have always been indispensable, and if anything the pre-FCCW narration downplayed their role, but still I have a bad feeling about it all. It seems right now a brigade like the Lyran Guards is most needed.
The treatment sound a lot like their treatment right after the Jihad: the Lyran Guards were somehow "forgotten'" within the LCAf procurment department and didn't even have a single unit rebuild unlike the other brigades. Let's hope that isn't the case again. Im ho they should rebuild the 10th as a symbol (after all the 10th was usually the posting of designated heirs or important Steiners). After the Jihad the loyalty of the Guards won out. Given the current state of the Commonwealth though....
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The 10th Lyran Guard was reformed at some point after 3085. It was then destroyed by Clan Wolf in the 3140s
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The 10th Lyran Guard was reformed at some point after 3085. It was then destroyed by Clan Wolf in the 3140s
I know. I meant that they should rebuild it again as a symbol. Though from what ressources is another story.
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I know. I meant that they should rebuild it again as a symbol. Though from what ressources is another story.
After being destroyed twice, with the second time being relatively recent, I'd imagine that any symbolic value has been very much tarnished.
At the moment, the Donegal Guards and Arcturan Guards have become the real workmen of the LCAF and carrying the weight of the force. Focusing on keeping them going rather than rebuilding dead commands is a far more logical way to go.
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But dying and coming back to life is what the 10th does, they are the Revenants.
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After the Jihad the loyalty of the Guards won out. Given the current state of the Commonwealth though....
Well, if anything the remaining regiments are still considered as loyal as they are indispensable.
But dying and coming back to life is what the 10th does, they are the Revenants.
Not that I am a fan of the Victorian era of the 10th... but if there is a designated successor to the throne, it would be a great sign of hope and strength to rebuild the 10th and use it in offensive operations. It is not about rising up again.
At the moment, the Donegal Guards and Arcturan Guards have become the real workmen of the LCAF and carrying the weight of the force. Focusing on keeping them going rather than rebuilding dead commands is a far more logical way to go.
I am not sure about that. With all the centrifugal powers tearing the Commonwealth apart right now, I would not strengthen regional commands (especially after the Tamar secession and its impact on the Arcturans), and focus on supraregional commands.
The Lyran Guards are a symbol with a lot of history tied to the Commonwealth as a whole. Neglecting them is like neglecting Lyran unity and undermines the very fabric of the Commonwealth.
Besides, there is still enough of substance to make a comeback. The 3rd and 11th in particular perform well and are eager to fight.
PS: rebuilding the 10th just to kill it again, and all 'off-screen', was a damn poor writing choice on the part of TPTB.
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Well, if anything the remaining regiments are still considered as loyal as they are indispensable.
Not that I am a fan of the Victorian era of the 10th... but if there is a designated successor to the throne, it would be a great sign of hope and strength to rebuild the 10th and use it in offensive operations. It is not about rising up again.
I am not sure about that. With all the centrifugal powers tearing the Commonwealth apart right now, I would not strengthen regional commands (especially after the Tamar secession and its impact on the Arcturans), and focus on supraregional commands.
The Lyran Guards are a symbol with a lot of history tied to the Commonwealth as a whole. Neglecting them is like neglecting Lyran unity and undermines the very fabric of the Commonwealth.
Besides, there is still enough of substance to make a comeback. The 3rd and 11th in particular perform well and are eager to fight.
PS: rebuilding the 10th just to kill it again, and all 'off-screen', was a damn poor writing choice on the part of TPTB.
I'd disagree with your prescription on one aspect: what's driving the secessions? It's a feeling that the central government has NO INTEREST in defending their border territories. (this may be a false impression, but it's one that has legs.)
The strongest move would be to visibly and actively reinforce those local forces to show that the 'home office' actually cares about them. Without reliable FTL commo, your strongest link ends up being the supply chain, and if the supply chain is petered out to build up 'supernational' forces, then the perception is going to be local neglect to reinforce the Capital-which drives secession sentiment, instead of alleviating it.
One of the ways Machiavelli recommends for buying loyalty, is with arms, there's a reason for that, it's a matter of human nature. Distributing arms to your provinces doesn't encourage secession, it encourages loyalty. Depriving them of arms when you're building up your home islands? that drives secession fervor.
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Not sure about that either when looking at the 26th Arcturan Guards. They were equipped by Tharkad, the Archon herself prevented their dissolution and ordered their rebuilding. Getting their weaponry from the government did not prevent their desertion.
I would not want the Lyran Guards to stay on Tharkad, anyway, nor to weaken regional commands. But it needs to be clear that the military is a Lyran thing. The weapons would be there, and everyone could join the Lyran Guards defending the borders.
Regional commands should be an additional layer of defense but the brunt of the fighting, especially the offensive operations, should be done by a supraregional state force. Otherwise people will question the use of that central goverment. The stronger the regional ties of a combat formation the more likely it is to fight for that region rather than Tharkad (see Skye Rangers).
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Not sure about that either when looking at the 26th Arcturan Guards. They were equipped by Tharkad, the Archon herself prevented their dissolution and ordered their rebuilding. Getting their weaponry from the government did not prevent their desertion.
I would not want the Lyran Guards to stay on Tharkad, anyway, nor to weaken regional commands. But it needs to be clear that the military is a Lyran thing. The weapons would be there, and everyone could join the Lyran Guards defending the borders.
Regional commands should be an additional layer of defense but the brunt of the fighting, especially the offensive operations, should be done by a supraregional state force. Otherwise people will question the use of that central goverment. The stronger the regional ties of a combat formation the more likely it is to fight for that region rather than Tharkad (see Skye Rangers).
There are always offsets and breaks in the pattern, but generally, you're more likely to develop loyalty by supporting your locals, than by depriving them of support. Tharkad is in no way, shape, or form in a condition to be pursuing any aggression at all right now-they don't have the resources, communication, forces, or position to be doing anything BUT retrenching what they've got and (at most) engaging in recon and monitoring.
That said, one of the most important aspects of providing that support I'm talking about? Is in personnel assignments. the romans had a practice of not assigning legionaries to their home regions. The commands might be from those home regions, but the assignments weren't. Gauls and Britons assigned to Judea, African troops to Brittania, etc. etc.
This is because it works. If you've got personnel losses in Arcturus, it's probably a good idea to grab your replacements from Donegal instead of locally. Shift your local recruits from Arcturus to Donegal or Coventry. If a significant portion of the "local troops'' aren't local, they're going to be less likely to support an ambitious politician looking to carve out his own kingdom.
but that's a management thing, and the BIG driver for the 26th doing what they did, is that Melissa didn't manage them, and neither did Roddy or Trillian. Basically a sort of benign neglect across the entire realm, which is symptomatic of endemic corruption in the LCAF brass levels-essentially, if you have a commander like Vedet Brewer out there with men who'll actually FOLLOW him, it's a symptom of a much deeper problem that the Lyrans have had for a long, long, time.
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what the LCAF needs more then anything are notable victories in the region. The refusal by Trillian to launch a strike on Arcturus when it was demonstrated to be empty was a problem no ifs ands or buts. Sending an Arcturian guard regiment to scout out the world, being told it was empty and saying "we're still doing nothing" was a problem, I understand the strategic thinking behind the decision, but Morale in the LCAF was low, and it's low Morale that drove the formation of these states, frankly I'm not sure TRILLIAN will be able to recover it, unless she can win some sort of massive victory that requires keeping the troops in place etc. as there is simply no confidance in HER as a ruler anymore
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We'll have to see what the Lyrans do in Empire Alone. If the Lyrans use their forces on the Wolf Empire border to liberate Solaris and Skye, like I hope, then that should bolster her popularity. If they do nothing, like I expect, then logically that should be it for her. She has to empty borders with multiple valuable worlds and seized none of them, while allowing separatist movements to spring up and fester. I'm sure that not losing more Lyran worlds to nobody will be held up as a victory anyway though.
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If Marik takes vast swathes of the Wolf empire and suffers no concequences for it, that'll be the end for Trillian. Concentrated Weakness was eneugh to remove Allasndro Steiner from power.
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We'll have to see what the Lyrans do in Empire Alone. If the Lyrans use their forces on the Wolf Empire border to liberate Solaris and Skye, like I hope, then that should bolster her popularity. If they do nothing, like I expect, then logically that should be it for her. She has to empty borders with multiple valuable worlds and seized none of them, while allowing separatist movements to spring up and fester. I'm sure that not losing more Lyran worlds to nobody will be held up as a victory anyway though.
Looking at the map in Tamar Rising the Commonwealth has retaken some worlds itself in addition to those clamed by the three small, technically, breakaway Lyran factions.
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They took random worlds of no importance, while allowing two RCTs and a mercenary regiment to break away. They are breakaway factions, no technically, and the fact they successfully reclaimed worlds is even worse for the Lyrans. If one RCT acting with no support can reclaim a factory world, building Omnimechs, what does that say about Lyran leadership that they are incapable of doing anything?
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They took random worlds of no importance, while allowing two RCTs and a mercenary regiment to break away. They are breakaway factions, no technically, and the fact they successfully reclaimed worlds is even worse for the Lyrans. If one RCT acting with no support can reclaim a factory world, building Omnimechs, what does that say about Lyran leadership that they are incapable of doing anything?
point of order, the Tamar Pact has not claimed any omnimech production facilities, Arturus produced primitive mechs although there's no evidance those facilities post Jihad where turned into more modernized designs. Pandora only produces second liners
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Arcturus produced Crossbow Omnis for the Wolves and Falcons, while the Wolves really liked them, the falcons didn't care for them.
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It's in RecGuide 17
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ahh right, yeah I guess thats an omnimech, although the crossbow is, as clan omnimechs go pretty primative.
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I agree it's no Sudeten, but it is still a valuable asset that can be seized with no support, that the Lyrans were unable to do, but one RCT could
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point of order, the Tamar Pact has not claimed any omnimech production facilities, Arturus produced primitive mechs although there's no evidance those facilities post Jihad where turned into more modernized designs. Pandora only produces second liners
Pandora also prodcues Clan tech combat vehicles and maybe even IS combat vehicles (Pandora had IS vehicle factories iirc). And Mechs in itself are always a precious commodity especially when you have to rebuild nearly your ENTIRE army
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Arcturus produced Crossbow Omnis for the Wolves and Falcons, while the Wolves really liked them, the falcons didn't care for them.
In all fairness, the Wolves had no choice but to like them. Prior to their relocation, they could only produce two OmniMechs
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Seems the LC leadership is afraid to act because they may think they can conquer but not hold the planets that are easy targets.
Others do not hesitate and hopefully that will benefit the LC in the end.
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I understand that the Powers That Be are writing the Lyran leadership as weak so things like the factions in Tamar Rising can happen.
What I don't get becuase I haven't read it anywhere is what the Lyran leadership is doing or trying to do?
Are they literally doing nothing? Trying something and failing? What exactly?
As presented in the Mechwarrior Dark Age books, Trillian and Roderick are not incompetents.
I think the writers need to explain how they are failing not just say they are.
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I understand that the Powers That Be are writing the Lyran leadership as weak so things like the factions in Tamar Rising can happen.
What I don't get becuase I haven't read it anywhere is what the Lyran leadership is doing or trying to do?
Are they literally doing nothing? Trying something and failing? What exactly?
As presented in the Mechwarrior Dark Age books, Trillian and Roderick are not incompetents.
I think the writers need to explain how they are failing not just say they are.
The Lyrans are backing anti-clan groups in the Falcon invasion corridor. We don’t know how successful they have been and hopefully Empire Alone will give us details.
The Lyrans had to look incompetent to allow the Clan era to begin and I hope that this trend ends sooner than later because even the Capellans got a break after the 4th succession war.
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I understand that the Powers That Be are writing the Lyran leadership as weak so things like the factions in Tamar Rising can happen.
What I don't get becuase I haven't read it anywhere is what the Lyran leadership is doing or trying to do?
Are they literally doing nothing? Trying something and failing? What exactly?
As presented in the Mechwarrior Dark Age books, Trillian and Roderick are not incompetents.
I think the writers need to explain how they are failing not just say they are.
It's covered to a degree in Tamar Rising. At the moment the Lyran Commonwealth is struggling militarily, politically and financially.
The military was shattered by the Falcons and the Wolves, and hasn't had any real opportunity to rebuild so far. Added to that, two whole regiments have effectively defected (Hesperus Guards and the 26th Arcturan) and many others have question marks hanging over their heads. Finally, the Lyrans have to deal not only with the Wolves and the Falcons, but the resurgent Free Worlds League. They just lost Bolan, after all, and now there's a 'thumb' pointed towards the Commonwealth's core.
While both Trillian and Roderick are good at what they do, both of them are politically unpopular. Trillian inherited a terrible situation from her predecessor and so far has had no real chances to turn it around. Not to mention she had to deal with a civil war in the form of Deigo Windmer and his Buena Collective, something that did not win her a lot of popular support and cost the LCAF even more strength. Conversely, Vedet Brewer still has popular support within the Commonwealth.
Finally, the Commonwealth is a complete disaster economically. The state poured massive amounts of money into propping up ComStar during the 3130s, a move that cost them considerably for no benefit whatsoever. And that's on top of the damage the economy has suffered from the HPG blackout and the disruptions to trade that have resulted. It was commented that any large scale mobilisation would destroy the Lyran economy.
Added to that, the Commonwealth lacks the financial clout to hire mercenaries as it has done in past. On top of that, it's reputation of an employer took a massive hit due to the betrayal and destruction of the Eridani Light Horse.
So it's not that the Lyrans won't take advantage of the situation, but more that they lack the ability to effectively do such
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And on top of all of that, remember that in-universe pretty much all anyone in the Inner Sphere knows is that the Wolves and Falcons disappeared behind the Fortress Wall and then nothing. As far as they know, Malvina could come back at any moment for another round of Burn The Commonwealth.
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I do have a question, why did we buy Comstar post Jihad?
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Because Melissa Steiner was dumber than a sack of hammers.
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I do have a question, why did we buy Comstar post Jihad?
The Lyrans didn't buy ComStar. They did attempt to bail it out, using the logic that when the HPG network was fixed then Comstar would be effectively controlled by the Lyran government. That had the potential to give the Lyrans a monopoly over interstellar communication as well as a massive revenue source.
The problem is that all that money achieved nothing and the HPG network remained broken
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And then she went whole hog on the sunk cost false.
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You guys raise some good points about the economy being bad and poor leadership under Melissa and Brewer making things worse. Then the Wolves turn on them.
The thing is that was years ago in game universe, wasn't it? And the Wolves and Falcons are not in Lyran space or on their borders making problems anymore.
Trillian and co. should have had some time to get some stuff together and retake some of what they lost.
It seems to me anyway.
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And on top of all of that, remember that in-universe pretty much all anyone in the Inner Sphere knows is that the Wolves and Falcons disappeared behind the Fortress Wall and then nothing. As far as they know, Malvina could come back at any moment for another round of Burn The Commonwealth.
that held up early sure but apparently word leaked out by 3152. sure I get by then that many of these microstates where already eistablished but still...
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You guys raise some good points about the economy being bad and poor leadership under Melissa and Brewer making things worse. Then the Wolves turn on them.
The thing is that was years ago in game universe, wasn't it? And the Wolves and Falcons are not in Lyran space or on their borders making problems anymore.
Trillian and co. should have had some time to get some stuff together and retake some of what they lost.
It seems to me anyway.
the problem is that the morale hits already happened, and when the Wolves and Falcons went on to other things, it wasn't because the Lyrans made them do it, but because the Lyrans were not 'peaceful', but instead, 'Harmless'-as in helpless while also being of so little worth that conquest was a net loss for the victors (it would cost more to repair the existing damage, than to just let it fall apart.)
Count the secessions and consider that nations with a strong morale (or even a normal morale) don't do that, then look at the condition, because the dirty secret is, that from about 3080 until 3145, nothing got rebuilt.
the economy was already on the verge of collapse when Stone pulled the plug on the HPG network thanks to a decade of Katherine's mismanagement followed by Peter and Adam having to fight a global war on terror that gutted many key industries (that weren't rebuilt), followed by treaties that let them pretend everything was fine while not rebuilding.
the condition the LC is in, has a logical progression of events and policies that led to where they are in the present, and 'marker moments' that set those failures up, especially post-Jihad with the Republic Treaties and their 'trade policies'.
(The LC gave half their industrial base to Devlin Stone, then didn't rebuild the other half, what did they THINK was going to happen?? They gave control of their comms to Devlin Stone's sock puppet Comstar, what did they THINK was going to happen??)
Oh, and Andrew Steiner?
That was assassination, probably by the Republic. You heard it here first.
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Cannonshop, maybe I am reading different sources or interpreting them differently but the Dark Age stuff I have read did not indicate that the lyrans were on the point of economic collapse during Stone's Republic of the Sphere. They had disarmed to an extant true but that's not the same thing as not rebuilding infrastructure, etc. The Lyrans had things togehter enough to cooperate with the Wolves with the attack on the Mariks.
The Wolf betrayal hurt them true but it was not presented as far as I know as a death blow.
Which was literally years ago in universe.
I am not an expert though and I'm not conversant with much going back any further than the Jihad (when I came onboard).
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The Commonwealth did rebuild quite a bit post-Jihad. Prior to the Blackout, it was in much better shape than Cannonshop is making it out to be.
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The Commonwealth did rebuild quite a bit post-Jihad. Prior to the Blackout, it was in much better shape than Cannonshop is making it out to be.
Considering how fast they fell apart? I suspect a rather significant part of that was very, very, very, much on the cosmetic side, as opposed to critical infrastructure. think: Major Interstellar nation, only has one shipyard to handle all of their merchant traffic requirements, because they don't have enough infrastructure to have more than the one. That's all your decade-checks, seal inspections, hardware and software updates and fueling. Interstellar nations are not like planetbound terrestrial continental states, you can't even keep the roads open (because there are none), everything has to be shipped...and the the Lyran Commonwealths whole shipping industry was confined to salvaged yards concentrated at Gibbs.
That's not a sign of a healthy economy, that's not even an arrangement that LETS YOU HAVE a healthy economy when you're structured like an archipelago with weeks between islands.
I'm sure that for the upper echelons, things got better, but given how fast the Lyrans fell apart on EVERY front once pushed? I'm gonna say the 'recovery' was mostly in the press.
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I've been looking back over the Dark Age sourcebooks and Tamar Rising this morning.
I think the issue is that we don't know the current situation. We don't know how the Lyrans are going to react when they find out the Wolves and Falcons are not poised to drive on Tharkad but instead bled themselves white fighting each other over Terra.
I think the problem I was having was I thought Trillian and Roderick knew more about what was going on with the Wolves taking Terra than they actually do. Tamar Rising makes it clear that they are spreading forces all over the place trying to cover weak points and recon to try and find out what the Wolves and Falcons are doing.
Once the Lyrans figure out what happened on Earth then we'll see how the situation stands.
I think part of my confusion was I knew what happened in IlClan and expected the next sourcebook to advance the story for everyone. Big Picture. That's not how Tamar is set up. This is very much a regional sorucebook set up to provide a rich gaming environment for mercs with mini-factions like the beginning of the Dark Age.
Tamar Rising is more like an expanded chapter in a larger sourcebook we haven't gotten yet.
It remains to be seen what happens next. I'm curious though if the next couple books they mentioned as coming out are all going to be as narrow in focus as Tamar was...
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Empire Alone should give considerable coverage to the Commonwealth, particularly on the Wolf Empire border.
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The Lyrans didn't buy ComStar. They did attempt to bail it out, using the logic that when the HPG network was fixed then Comstar would be effectively controlled by the Lyran government. That had the potential to give the Lyrans a monopoly over interstellar communication as well as a massive revenue source.
The problem is that all that money achieved nothing and the HPG network remained broken
So it didn't even end up with us in charge of what was left of their "transport fleet"?
So it was a bad bad call...and the RoS was oky with us doing it? Even a worse idea
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The RoS was coming apart at the seams due to the Blackout and all the groups of petty yahoos who were going nuts in it at the time.
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Empire Alone should give considerable coverage to the Commonwealth, particularly on the Wolf Empire border.
one might hope so. but...
So it didn't even end up with us in charge of what was left of their "transport fleet"?
So it was a bad bad call...and the RoS was oky with us doing it? Even a worse idea
It takes a series of bad leadership calls to bring a nation to its knees, which the LC was firmly at-on their knees and falling before the Wolves and Falcons went behind the wall.
and Trill's still making bad calls. Not that she has any other options but 'bad or worse', mind, but they're not losing insignificant regions or a few leakers on the sides either. The State's been set up for collapse. It's going to need serious retcon magic to make it through.
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Could you maybe tone the sky-is-falling down to a dull roar?
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The RoS was coming apart at the seams due to the Blackout and all the groups of petty yahoos who were going nuts in it at the time.
So we pour $$ into Comstar when it primary product line was already broken... WTF were they thinking, without get something to in trade. That was a dumb idea...
Like Toy R Us buying KB toys who was bankrupt
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Like I said, Melissa was dumber than a sack of hammers.
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So we pour $$ into Comstar when it primary product line was already broken... WTF were they thinking, without get something to in trade. That was a dumb idea...
Like Toy R Us buying KB toys who was bankrupt
I don't think it's fair to hold that against the Lyran government I don't think anyone anticipated the HPG ent would be down as long as it's been down
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Could you maybe tone the sky-is-falling down to a dull roar?
Falling? hell no, it's already fallen. I'm looking at the aftermath of the sky having already fallen and wondering how it isn't written into a cul-de-sac. The nukes already fell, the zombies are already in the shelter, pick your metaphor, it's already happened, the only question is what form the obvious takes, or what sort of deus ex machina is left to pull to reset things.
To get things where they are, the Lyrans had to be running on inertia for a long time, and guess what? everything we've gotten subsequent so far shows they're still falling, but that's like pulling up when your engines both sheared off in the eruption-you might manage a belly-landing but the plane's not gonna fly again without being completely rebuilt. They did a GREAT job staging the complete collapse of a nation.
Fantastic job of that, and the crash is still happening, but the 'sky falling' already happened, and all that's left is the aftermath, or a miracle on the level of making the flood vanish overnight without anyone who was in the water drowning, it's on the level of finding a secret stash of superweapons after the invader's already burned the country down. You need a Fantasy Trope with an incompetent bard, bumbling thief, reckless conjuror and square-jawed knight to save it at this point, complete with the divine-providence provisioned stash of magic artifacts and some giggling evil sorceror behind the whole plot on behalf of a dark god who speaks in gothic-italic font to defeat.
Notably, none of these are present, but there's still the chance of the last unicorn showing up.
I just wouldn't recommend counting on it.
Then again, I've been wrong before, so really the question is, who's the unicorn?
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Whether it's true or not, the gloom and doom rhetoric has been done and continuing to repeat it isn't adding anything to the discussion. And besides, I suspect that the Commonwealth is going to be able to pull through simply due to the fact that all of their major enemies are distracted and reeling right now. The Wolves and Falcons both massacred each other and have to stay on Terra to avoid losing the planet, the Mariks are distracted by internal matters and problems with the Capellans, the Combine is too busy playing in Davion space, and the Horses and Bears have to cross through the various upstart territories if they want to reach Commonwealth space and that will take time.
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The current situation has bought the Commonwealth the thing it needs most: time. This is a chance to rebuild its military, do something about the economy and maybe restore some faith in its leadership. Engaging in military adventurism, even if it is just reclaiming lost worlds, will not help them right now.
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Whether it's true or not, the gloom and doom rhetoric has been done and continuing to repeat it isn't adding anything to the discussion. And besides, I suspect that the Commonwealth is going to be able to pull through simply due to the fact that all of their major enemies are distracted and reeling right now. The Wolves and Falcons both massacred each other and have to stay on Terra to avoid losing the planet, the Mariks are distracted by internal matters and problems with the Capellans, the Combine is too busy playing in Davion space, and the Horses and Bears have to cross through the various upstart territories if they want to reach Commonwealth space and that will take time.
Those are sideshow issues, Ogre. The major problem for the Lyrans is internal to the Lyrans. You have two potential Archons minimum, with regional leaders whom are poised to also make bids, you have ostensibly loyal regions that are in open rebellion, the communication infrastructure is still totally shot, and they're hemorraging units including the famed 26th.
They've got a break from foreign enemies only. what they don't have, is the stuff needed to pull together again. The wealth (the defining characteristic of the faction) is long gone. as I said, the sky already fell, it's 'can they pick up the pieces without destroying what's left?'
The two major players who might serve, have exactly mirrored weaknesses. Brewer's charismatic without being competent, and Trillian's competent without being charismatic. neither of them has the magic combo of being both Charismatic and competent.
It's going to take both, so Lyran Fans need a Unicorn. Get it now?
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Brewer's not a major player anymore. He's never met a bridge he didn't want to light on fire and he's got a habit of doing so while he's still crossing them. And he's pretty much completely out of allies at this point. Trillian, OTOH, has Roderick, who's both competent and charismatic and now that the external threats are out for the moment she's actually got a chance to deal with the internal issues.
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I wouldn't say Brewer isn't a major player anymore. He does have his own army, his own interstellar state, and remains influential in the Commonwealth (though the amount of nobles willing to support him against House Steiner is diminishing over time). He's not going to be able to make another play for the Lyran throne, sure, but he's still capable of being a thorn in Trillian's side (which is why she tried reconciliation with him... sadly, Brewer is Brewer).
As per the doomerism in the rest of the thread; the Lyrans don't have to worry about their eastern front anymore, because it's been converted into buffer states capable to at least slowing down the Horses and Bears long enough for the Commonwealth to be able to bring it's considerable resources to where they need to be. The Wolf Empire is crippled, and the FWL will be preoccupied by trying to seize as much of it as possible, so the southern front is temporarily secure. This leaves only one active front; the Periphery. The Timbuktu Collective hasn't ever really attacked the Commonwealth (they're a problem because worlds defect to them voluntarily) and the Rim Territories invasion has been stalled for years at this point. Trillian can mop up operations there, pivot back south before the FWL becomes a problem (ideally, she'd pursue detente) and look to reabsorb the Hinterlands when she's good and ready. The Commonwealth might be out of money, but treasuries refill; they're still one of the most economically dynamic societies in Battletech, and sitting on one of the naturally richest sectors of the known universe. The Commonwealth, given breathing room, can and will bounce back from the brink. And they'll have breathing room, unless Trillian massively screws up.
Unfortunately, the path that saves the Commonwealth seems... a tad boring. I mean, nobody's even bothered to give the Duke of Pain a name. The Rim Territories and the Timbuktu Collective don't have flags, color schemes or more than a few sentences in any given sourcebook. If they're the only people Trillian's going to fight for a while, the Commonwealth is basically reduced to a side character in the story of the Inner Sphere for the duration. So maybe Lyran fans might prefer her making a botch of things, provided it puts the Commonwealth in the spotlight and keeps things interesting.
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I doubt that the Periphery states are going to amount to anything significant. More likely, we'll see the Commonwealth reclaim some worlds lost to the Wolf Empire.
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I doubt that the Periphery states are going to amount to anything significant. More likely, we'll see the Commonwealth reclaim some worlds lost to the Wolf Empire.
I fear we're going to get a single paragraph that essentially goes "Trillian killed the Periphery States, and the Lyrans are pretty stoked about it" to give her street cred, and that'll be all we hear about them. But yeah, I agree, the southern front is where the Lyrans get a chance to strut their stuff.
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Empire Alone should give considerable coverage to the Commonwealth, particularly on the Wolf Empire border.
It does not. There are a few, maybe even significant mentions of the Lyrans, but that's not the focus of the book, and it covers the same time frame as Tamar Rising.
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Rats.
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Well the Lyrans can't be allowed to succeed. It was fairly clear that recapturing some nameless systems in Tamar Rising should be considered a victory.
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I wonder which factions' adherents feel like they ARE allowed to succeed.
The Wolves, surely, and then...?
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I wonder which factions' adherents feel like they ARE allowed to succeed.
The Wolves, surely, and then...?
Right NOW that's pretty much it, but that doesn't mean it's going to be 'it' forever. To have a wargame you have to have two or more sides that both think they have a reasonable chance of winning.
(OR, you have to have ALL sides feeling they're just staving off annihilation, which is the same thing, just in a less optimistic context).
What we're seeing right now is setting up the dressing for the next act-there's a reason the Wolf Clan got an easy walk with the RoTS that was mostly off-stage and leaned heavily on the brain-removing pills on one side.
Don't expect that trend to continue. One-sided settings tend to end up dying, but one-sided events tend to result in strong emotional moments when they get reversed. (Which translates into renewed interest and investment/excitement among the fans. The Devs and writers are professionals, they know this.)
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mayybe but I think it's worth noting that the warrior trilogy came out in 1989, with the blood of kerensky trilogy in the same year, assumption of risk, which split the fedcom occured in 1995 with the FCCW occuring in novels dating to around '98 and 99)
for fans of the LC this means a absurdly short up followed by DECADES of down, and then when the jade falcons, one of the principal factions behind the "down" literally dissappers of the map, the Lyrans seem to sit around and do... almost nothing.
I think Lyran fans are justified to be impatient.
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mayybe but I think it's worth noting that the warrior trilogy came out in 1989, with the blood of kerensky trilogy in the same year, assumption of risk, which split the fedcom occured in 1995 with the FCCW occuring in novels dating to around '98 and 99)
for fans of the LC this means a absurdly short up followed by DECADES of down, and then when the jade falcons, one of the principal factions behind the "down" literally dissappers of the map, the Lyrans seem to sit around and do... almost nothing.
I think Lyran fans are justified to be impatient.
Beyond Denial,
is Anger.
Beyond Anger,
is Bargaining.
Beyond Bargaining,
Comes Acceptance.
at which point, everyone else will call you out for pointing out what's already been happening as 'tinfoil hat the sky is falling negativity'.
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To be honest with the Social Generals and being used as a punching bag I started as Lyran and have become more mercenary. Not that there is a big difference.
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Beyond Denial,
is Anger.
Beyond Anger,
is Bargaining.
Beyond Bargaining,
Comes Acceptance.
at which point, everyone else will call you out for pointing out what's already been happening as 'tinfoil hat the sky is falling negativity'.
Some people just how limits on how emotionally invested they're willing to get over the fate of fictional characters.
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To be honest with the Social Generals and being used as a punching bag I started as Lyran and have become more mercenary. Not that there is a big difference.
that means you are one of our effective commanders :thumbsup:
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Question for the group: do we know the status of the 1st Buena Guards in 3150?
I know after FM3145 they rebelled and became the Collective Guards and got defeated. Are they gone now?
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The final fate of the 1st Buena Guards (renamed to the 1st Collective Guards) is unclear. That being siad, from the text in Shattered Fortress, I'd say that the unit was likely disbanded following its surredner.
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The final fate of the 1st Buena Guards (renamed to the 1st Collective Guards) is unclear. That being siad, from the text in Shattered Fortress, I'd say that the unit was likely disbanded following its surredner.
Thanks! That is also how I read it. Guess I'll paint something else for IlClan.
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What is the state of things on the Lyran border with the Free World's League?
Is this all territory claimed by the Wold Empire? If so, what is the state of things while Clan Wolf fights near Terra?
Is Wolf Empire territory largely abandoned like Jade Falcon worlds in the former Invasion zone?
Did Marik or Steiner forces move aganist the Wolf out here?
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What is the state of things on the Lyran border with the Free World's League?
Is this all territory claimed by the Wold Empire? If so, what is the state of things while Clan Wolf fights near Terra?
Is Wolf Empire territory largely abandoned like Jade Falcon worlds in the former Invasion zone?
Did Marik or Steiner forces move aganist the Wolf out here?
(In announcer voice) Find out in the upcoming sourcebook *dramatic pause* Empire Alone.
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I have aquestion as I have finally gotten my hand on Shattered fortress: i seem to remember that some said that the Mech factories on coventry were destroyed when the Falcons invaded. But after reading that section I got the impression that nothing major happened except the flattening of Whitting to symbolize that "dirty spheroids have no right to the Star League" and the death of Jasek Kelswa-Steiner. The Falcons were then beaten by Roderick and never deployed their tactical nukes despite orders from Malvina. So I assume CMW is still standing? Or did I miss a part there?
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From what I've gathered, the Coventry Metal Works factories were damaged but eventually returned to operational capacity.
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Anything good for us in Empire alone???
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A few minor mentions down along the Wolf/FWL borders.
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Anything good for us in Empire alone???
The June 3152 map shows both Bolan and Dixie surrounded by and in Steiner blue again.
Ruger
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Anything good for us in Empire alone???
A few things. Some of them I think are very promising going foward.
Firstly, the Alarion Buena York Province and Timbuktu Florida Theatre has been reorganized and stabilized, which frees up the LCAF (which essentially had to occupy half the province to prevent another secession attempt) for offensive action. They've used that freedom to retake Bolan and Dixie.
Second, the Wolf Empire is not only completely hamstrung by it's lack of forces, it's actively being invaded by the FWL. The Lyrans now don't have an active front against a powerful adversary; they're surrounded by states too small or too busy attacking one another to invade the Commonwealth, or independent systems. There's no more serious threat of invasion while the Commonwealth pulls itself back together; Trillian's strategy of trading worlds for time worked.
Third, an invasion of the Wolf Empire would go well for the Commonwealth. Many worlds are already actively rebelling - some of them the Wolves have had to left go because they can't contest the local uprisings. Everywhere, the garrisons are severely understrength. Many of the more isolated Empire worlds are easy pickings, and the reclamation of Bolan and Dixie opened up an invasion route to the core of the Empire if the Lyrans care to roll the dice on that one.
tl;dr I think that Tamar Rising and Empire Alone combined indicate that 3152 is gonna be the year of the Lyran resurgence.
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Many Wolf Empire worlds don't even have garrisons at this point, just constabulary forces.
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The one thing that struck me a bit odd was
Fontaine Marik send a mercenary unit to Dixie and the Mercenaries used a loophole in their contract to claim the planet for House Steiner instead and a follow up attack by Marik forces was beaten back by the LCAF
And considering that the book ends with
an all out invasion of the Wolf Empire's territory from House Marik
do you think we might see some form of cooperation between Trilian and Nikol?
Like splitting up the bulge that is the Wolf's empire territory especially given the fact that Wolf's Dragoons sacked the capital of Gienah
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There's already SOME cooperation between them. One of the recent Shrapnel issues mentioned that the LIC and SAFE had an intelligence sharing pact against the Wolves.
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I finallly got Tamar Pact and finished reading it. So are there any fans of the new microstates? I know this is the Lyran thread, but is there any sympathies for the new buffer zone? I admit to having a soft spot for the reborn Tamar Pact, I can understand General Regis's intentions and well...as it's been stated aplenty, the Lyrans weren't doing anything about the quiet Falcon border. Discovering the truth took some time, sure, but the fact is the Lyrans have been on the receiving end of the Falcon relationship for a good long while.
I've been putting together a character to run a mercenary force, one more disillusioned and bitter Lyran who lost her (wealthy) family in a hoverlimo accident that may or may not be Loki's fault, and decided to take her finances and go mercenary. She was raised on stories from her great grandfather about fighting the Jade Falcons on their ancestral homeworld of Zoetermeer, and watched as the nation merely tolerated the Clans on the border for decades. That nothing was done to counterattack Malvina's desant and retake worlds was the final straw, and she went to Galatea with a lance of 'Mechs and flush coffers. Out of the microstates that were hiring, she went to the new Tamar Pact, seeing them as a legitimate claimant to her old homeworld - and with the chance to kick a pile of Clan *** in the process.
So who else likes the Tamar Pact? Any love for the other new states, either?
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Can’t wait to see what’s next. Actually I want to see what happens to the Hells Horses after the Red Hunter periphery forces attack.
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So who else likes the Tamar Pact? Any love for the other new states, either?
I'm a fan of the new Pact. I'm getting a subtle Rasalhague Dominion vibe, only in reverse with Spheroid government/military absorbing a large number of clan lower caste/citizens (along with a smattering of Clan paramilitary and Solahma garrison warriors). That'll be interesting to see shake out socially and economically. I hope they continue to expand and recover more of the historic Pact worlds, though that will put them in contact with angry Ghost Bears... However, I'm less worried at the prospect now that they seem to be experiencing their own civil war. Maybe we'll see some disillusioned RasDom expats join the fold?
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Well, the Bears are already poking the world of Tomans, and engaged the First Jaegers at the end of the book. I don't know what's going on in Bear space, but they're active against Tamar.
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I'm a fan of the new Pact. I'm getting a subtle Rasalhague Dominion vibe, only in reverse with Spheroid government/military absorbing a large number of clan lower caste/citizens (along with a smattering of Clan paramilitary and Solahma garrison warriors). That'll be interesting to see shake out socially and economically. I hope they continue to expand and recover more of the historic Pact worlds, though that will put them in contact with angry Ghost Bears... However, I'm less worried at the prospect now that they seem to be experiencing their own civil war. Maybe we'll see some disillusioned RasDom expats join the fold?
Agreed, and remember the Jade Falcons did capture a few sibkos of Ghost Bear troops so hopefully whoever writes their future does just wash away the Ghost Bear influence and make them all hard core Jade Falcons. However the fact that a warrior even suggested that a freeborn could get a Bloodname shows how much the attitude towards freeborns have shifted.
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So is it possible that other Arcturan Guards RCTs will follow Governor-General Regis's actions and defect to the new Tamar Pact and a free Arcturus?
However, I'm less worried at the prospect now that they seem to be experiencing their own civil war. Maybe we'll see some disillusioned RasDom expats join the fold?
Where'd you find that at? A Ghost Bear civil war would be...a surprise, considering how much of the Clan is around the idea of family and unity.
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So is it possible that other Arcturan Guards RCTs will follow Governor-General Regis's actions and defect to the new Tamar Pact and a free Arcturus?
Where'd you find that at? A Ghost Bear civil war would be...a surprise, considering how much of the Clan is around the idea of family and unity.
It’s in one of the recent novels. There is a lot of tomfoolery going on with the ghost bears/ras Dom because of how poorly it was written and managed in the past. Now that they need to be active there is an extra layer of suspension of disbelief to get them to where they need to be.
I missed the part where the ghost bears hit Tomans
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Where'd you find that at? A Ghost Bear civil war would be...a surprise, considering how much of the Clan is around the idea of family and unity.
Revealed in the new novel A Question of Survival. I had the same reaction regarding how out-of-character it was for the Bears and the Rasalhagians. My spoilered take and more discussion here:
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/clan-chatterweb/the-rasalhague-dominion-making-our-neighbors-move-since-3063/msg1854385/#msg1854385 (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/clan-chatterweb/the-rasalhague-dominion-making-our-neighbors-move-since-3063/msg1854385/#msg1854385)
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Agreed, and remember the Jade Falcons did capture a few sibkos of Ghost Bear troops so hopefully whoever writes their future does just wash away the Ghost Bear influence and make them all hard core Jade Falcons. However the fact that a warrior even suggested that a freeborn could get a Bloodname shows how much the attitude towards freeborns have shifted.
I'd actually rather like to see the influx of young Bears create a new culture for the Falcons. It would be rather boring to see them revert to their lawful stupid, hardliner mentality of the pre-Mongol era. Jiyi's willingness to think outside the box, use subterfuge, and respect Freeborns and lower castes gives me hope we'll see something completely new and compelling, from a story point of view. I'd love to actually want to root for the Falcons for once...
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I'd actually rather like to see the influx of young Bears create a new culture for the Falcons. It would be rather boring to see them revert to their lawful stupid, hardliner mentality of the pre-Mongol era. Jiyi's willingness to think outside the box, use subterfuge, and respect Freeborns and lower castes gives me hope we'll see something completely new and compelling, from a story point of view. I'd love to actually want to root for the Falcons for once...
Yeah, we've already got the Falcons on Terra to do the whole stick-up-the-butt lawful stupid old school Falcons routine. Not much point in Jiyi's Falcons existing if they're just going to do the exact same thing.
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The two Elements of Treason books did an effective job of making sympathetic cases for both the new Tamar Pact and the Vesper Marches. I went into both viewing the protagonists as traitors to their nation and oaths, which they are, but could not help but come to feel they had points to their actions. Which is, admittedly, what these books are really designed to do.
Ruger
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Guess I need to read Elements of Treason, now. I get all my information from sourcebooks. On that note...
Revealed in the new novel A Question of Survival. I had the same reaction regarding how out-of-character it was for the Bears and the Rasalhagians. My spoilered take and more discussion here:
Anyone know when we get Dominion Divided?
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"Soon." Catalyst never gives out more info than that until the book's in the warehouse.
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The two Elements of Treason books did an effective job of making sympathetic cases for both the new Tamar Pact and the Vesper Marches. I went into both viewing the protagonists as traitors to their nation and oaths, which they are, but could not help but come to feel they had points to their actions. Which is, admittedly, what these books are really designed to do.
Ruger
Need to add them to my to buy list then, anyone think that the Tamar Pact and Vesper Marches will come back to the Commonwealth peacefully?
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Unlikely. But it doesn't seem like either one is going to be wiped out in the near future, either.
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Where'd you find that at? A Ghost Bear civil war would be...a surprise, considering how much of the Clan is around the idea of family and unity.
The best source is "Dominions Divided", as it goes into this (nonsensical and stupid, IMO) conflict in great detail.
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Need to add them to my to buy list then, anyone think that the Tamar Pact and Vesper Marches will come back to the Commonwealth peacefully?
I say yes but that question relies on the writer and developers in the future right now.
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Need to add them to my to buy list then, anyone think that the Tamar Pact and Vesper Marches will come back to the Commonwealth peacefully?
I would assume that the Vesper Marches will get the Hammer: an object lesson to all other breakaway states what will happen. Then they follow up with negotiations perhaps offering great autonomy or something like that.
In essence a repeat of what Adam Steiner went through with bringing rebellious Archonettes back into the fold though with bigger risks
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Some wars of Succession may be in the works. I could see some states trying to overpower Donegal, when they get the power to.
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Tamar, not Donegal.
And I certainly hope that TPTB can do better than "the hammer drops on the breakaway states and they're forced back into the fold", but I don't expect that level of creativity.
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I think Tamar and the Commonwealth come up with some kind of arrangement that lets both of them save face. It'll be worded in such a way that Tharkad can say Tamar is still Lyran, and Tamar can say Tharkad has recognized their government. They'll keep using the same money, rank structure and such to present the appearance of unity to outside nations. But I don't think anyone else gets a sweet deal like that except maybe the AML.
The writers aren't even pretending Arc-Royal is a separate state, so I'm not going to either. One way or another the beef will get squashed and Callandre becomes Margrave of Arc-Royal, going from Mid Career Morgan Kell where she is now (running an autonomous region of Lyran space denoted by being a slightly different color) to Late Career Morgan Kell (important political figure within the system).
The Vesper Marches are going to make like Neo-Tokyo and *E*X*P*L*O*D*E* once those worlds that thought they were rejoining the LC find out that they didn't. One of them is Gareth Dinesen's world, just to add a little more spice to that mix.
The AML, though, they're going to be more than capable of working out a pleasant status quo with the Lyrans, given that the alternative is the Horses, who are gonna take one look at their Chalcas asses and try to put a boot up them.
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regarding Tamar, the most likely way is that Tamar will end up being reckongized as a "semi-autonomous realm within the LC" allowing TPTB in the long term to ressurect the concept of the Tamar pack (and the federation of Skye) as genuine "marches" of the LyrCom
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Print off a copy of the Arc-Royal Accords
Cross out the words "Arc-Royal" or "Wolf" and replace them with "Arcturus" and "Tamar."
That's it, you're done. The legal framework has been around for a century.
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Print off a copy of the Arc-Royal Accords
Cross out the words "Arc-Royal" or "Wolf" and replace them with "Arcturus" and "Tamar."
That's it, you're done. The legal framework has been around for a century.
I was gonna say we have a precedent for this. It was also the ground Robert Kelswa Steiner tried to increase his Isle of skye's autonomy when Peter ruled. Feels almost like the Commonwealth might revert to what the Great Houses were during the Age of War: a collection of more or less autonomous regions. After all we don't have instant communications (with a few exceptions) so the local rulers will have more authority without their big boss breathing down their neck
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That's the whole idea behind the system of Margraves as well. Your theater commanders have the power to launch military campaigns on their own authority and can assume temporary rulership of any civilian government they see fit for the duration of the crisis.
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An old Battletech trope was how a few malcontent planetary nobles could through their own concoctions could easily undermine the designs of a Successor Lord. Greed and foppish impolitic might be involved.