The Rasalhague Dominion: Friend of a Friend (but not your Friend)

[Jellico]

I did. But it turns out I missed the white. There is no parade scheme.

[Zeruel]

Well there are parade schemes according to camospecs, and AFAIK, all those shown on camospecs are considered canon

[Tyler Jorgensson]

So trothkin I have a battle coming up this Friday: 300 tons total. My opponent is a self proclaimed Hell Horse's fan and we did talk about about combined arms so I expect him to pull a mixed Star.

Against him I have assembled a Nova Star: a Berserker C3 (or Kodiak 5, leaning towards Berserker), Mad Dog A, Stooping Hawk B, Viper A, Fire Moth D, and 25 Elementals (although five have to walk).

So primary question which type of Elementals do I use or do I proxy them for Rogue Bears or something else?

Secondary question: I've got a Nova Cat, Warhawk, four Epona's, another Viper and Fire Moth, three Timber Wolves, two Nova's, Kingfisher, and Stormcrow. Any substitutions you would recommend... oh did I mention I have another 50 Elementals?

And third question: any tips, tactics, ideas, etc?

[David CGB]

Tyler Jorgensson, what is the time in which the fight takes place, this could cause a number of changes....

[Foxx Ital]

Also any idea of the terrain? That'll help with my battle armor suggestions.

[Tyler Jorgensson]

Terrain: probably box set variants: time period is a little post 3067: early Jihad I'd probably say nothing post 3085.

[Natasha Kerensky]

So trothkin I have a battle coming up this Friday: 300 tons total. My opponent is a self proclaimed Hell a horse fan and we did talk about about combined arms so I expect him to pull a mixed Star.

Against him I have assembled a Nova Star: a Berserker C3 (or Kodiak 5, leaning towards Berserker), Mad Dog A, Stooping Hawk B, Viper A, Fire Moth D, and 25 Elementals (although five have to walk).

So primary question which type of Elementals do I use or do I proxy them for Rogue Bears or something else?

Secondary question: I've got a Nova Cat, Warhawk, four Epona's, another Viper and Fire Moth, three Timber Wolves, two Nova's, Kingfisher, and Stormcrow. Any substitutions you would recommend... oh did I mention I have another 50 Elementals?

And third question: any tips, tactics, ideas, etc?

For my tastes, the Berserker and Fire Moth are a little too far on opposite the ends of the movement and survivability spectrum for a small unit like this.  I’d worry about unit cohesion and losing one or both when I try to take full advantage of their capabilities and they get expose..

Since you’re constrained by tonnage, not BV, I’d go with quality and make two Timber Wolves and the Stormcrow the core of the star.  Since this is a nova, to that classic, high-end, Clan heavy cavalry core, I’d add the Vipers for BA delivery and flanking.  It’s 285 tons total.

Timber Wolf
Timber Wolf
Stormcrow
Viper
Viper

I’d pick configurations based on whether zellbrigen is in force or if I could combine fires.

You could go heavier/harder-hitting by substituting the Warhawk for one of the Timber Wolves, but that removes the all-around heavy cavalry capability and sticks one BA point with a slow carrier.  That would come in at 295 tons.  Same goes for the Kingfisher or Nova Cat, but I’d rather have the Warhawk.

The Mad Dog, Stooping Hawk and Novas are also decent alternatives.  They’re just not as good as the Timber Wolves and Stormcrow.

You could use the Stooping Hawk or a Nova in place of a Viper and also get to 295 or 300 tons.  But that would leave one Viper as the only fast-mover in the star for BA delivery or flanking.  And you’re giving up considerable mobility for not much more firepower and survivability.  And the symmetry of the star is nice too.

If you stick with the Berserker or another non-Omni or slow unit, you might consider a point or two of Golems if you can preplace them on the map (not enter on an edge).  Put them in some defensible terrain covering a movement path.

[David CGB]

For my tastes, the Berserker and Fire Moth are a little too far on opposite the ends of the movement and survivability spectrum for a small unit like this.  I’d worry about unit cohesion and losing one or both when I try to take full advantage of their capabilities and they get expose..

Since you’re constrained by tonnage, not BV, I’d go with quality and make two Timber Wolves and the Stormcrow the core of the star.  Since this is a nova, to that classic, high-end, Clan heavy cavalry core, I’d add the Vipers for BA delivery and flanking.  It’s 285 tons total.

Timber Wolf
Timber Wolf
Stormcrow
Viper
Viper

I’d pick configurations based on whether zellbrigen is in force or if I could combine fires.

You could go heavier/harder-hitting by substituting the Warhawk for one of the Timber Wolves, but that removes the all-around heavy cavalry capability and sticks one BA point with a slow carrier.  That would come in at 295 tons.  Same goes for the Kingfisher or Nova Cat, but I’d rather have the Warhawk.

The Mad Dog, Stooping Hawk and Novas are also decent alternatives.  They’re just not as good as the Timber Wolves and Stormcrow.

You could use the Stooping Hawk or a Nova in place of a Viper and also get to 295 or 300 tons.  But that would leave one Viper as the only fast-mover in the star for BA delivery or flanking.  And you’re giving up considerable mobility for not much more firepower and survivability.  And the symmetry of the star is nice too.

If you stick with the Berserker or another non-Omni or slow unit, you might consider a point or two of Golems if you can preplace them on the map (not enter on an edge).  Put them in some defensible terrain covering a movement path.

aff

[Tyler Jorgensson]

Your advice is solid and it wounds me so: I really enjoy smashing things in the face with a hundred ton Assault mech for 40 points of damage which I can claim is a Rasalhague pilot :) I might switch the Stormcrow for the Mad Dog or Stooping Hawk (personal preference) but I haven't decided in that quite yet and probably won't pick until I'm five seconds from playing. Regardless my Mechs have been assembled (again despite misadventures including glue and stabbing implements gone wild), and while not painted I've got a couple of Ghost Bear dice to represent.

Which variant of the Elemental Battle Armor should I take?

[Natasha Kerensky]

Your advice is solid and it wounds me so: I really enjoy smashing things in the face with a hundred ton Assault mech for 40 points of damage which I can claim is a Rasalhague pilot :)

If you’re really good at it and are pretty sure he’ll bring viable targets for the Berzerker, go for it.  But for me, I wouldn’t want to put 20% of my mech investment into such a high-risk, high-attention machine.  I’d probably fail to bring the hatchet into play or get the Berzerker ganged up on.  I’d take the risk in a binary- or trinary-sized fight, where the Berzerker is only 10% or less of my mech force.  But not in a star-sized force.

Same basically goes for the Fire Moth.  It’s an even higher-risk unit for less payoff.  It will certainly bring weapons and BA to bear, but unlike the Berzerker, usually has no quick-kill ability.  And once it closes, you run a high risk of not getting it back, especially without a similarly speedy partner.  Again, in a trinary, a couple Fire Moths causing trouble in the backfield makes sense.  In a star, a single Fire Moth doesn’t seem worth it.

For Elementals, the AP Gauss is out in 3069, which I think fits your timeframe.  Nothing better.

[Tyler Jorgensson]

Aoso the battle was fought and ended in a draw (time). He brought a Thunder Stallions, Savage Coyote, Corvis, Galahad (Glass Spider), and Five Protomechs (Centaurs). I brought the suggested unit with a Mad Dog instead of the Stormcrow.

His Proto's got wrecked by my Vipers and Elementals. His Corvis was mostly holed as it took a lot of fire from bad (?) placement. His Thunder Stallion and Savage Coyote put a lot of work in (and I realize how good the Coyote is: slow but lots of big guns and DHS).  His Galahad played fire support all game and got a couple nice shots in.

In retrospect my force did pretty well considering a couple mis-plays. My Elementals suffered half casualties (with two as ablative armor that stopped Gauss Shots). One Elemental point took an entire turn of fire from the Coyote and died but saved other Mechs from being shot. My Vipers ran hot (obviously with that right jump) but got quite a few back shots and deployed the two points they had perfectly in heavy woods. My Mad Dog sat in heavy woods bombarding things with its PPC and LBX for several turns until it plastered the enemy with all six SRM packs until it got head shot by a PPC on the last turn. I missteped with the Timber Wolves a bit and one took a full round of fire while the other accidentally placed himself in a non-shooting location in the rear of the enemy Thunder Stallion.

I would have killed his Corvis and Galahad for sure but the other two would have taken apart at least one of my Points and Timber Wolves. Either way for some experience playing with the Elementals in combined arms, leg attacks (two successful), and Battle Armor taxis.  We expect to ply another couple games, especially with higher tonnage and maybe a two vs. two of I can arrange it as allies.


Thanks for the advice and help!

[Natasha Kerensky]

Sounds like he went big and slow, and it sounds like you were using your mobility advantage to outflank and get in his rear, which you should have.  Also sounds like the Elementals really got into play, which is also good.

Dunno if zellbrigen was suspended, but if you could use your mobility combine fire, that also would have helped (assuming you weren’t).  Two T-Wolves working like a pack can make short work of something like T-Stallion, especially if they work their range advantages.

I think you were better off without the Berzerker.  It would have been tempting to go toe to toe with the T-Stallion or S-Yote.  But they can really pour on the firepower, especially up close, and either could have shredded it.  If the axe missed, you would have been out a lot tonnage for little gain.  Okay to take those chances in a big group.  Harder in a small one.

The Centaurs would have made decent targets for your Fire Moth, if they didn’t have covering fire from the mechs.  But that would have been rare on the typical map board size for this kind of battle.  You were much better off with the Vipers.

Thx for the report.  Those of us too busy to play have to live vicariously through the after-action!

[Tyler Jorgensson]

Yeah we played on a pair of boards (aka 2x1) and I agree on the force size. We didn't really use zellbrigen I think both because we used Protos and BA, and two because we didn't have 'all' day to fight. My forces did gang up quite a lot actually but technically he broke zell first if we were keeping score :) still working on painting although I've painted my first two models need the money to do the rest really so I'm hijacking friends things in the meantime.

And ironically enough this seems like a potentially regular opponent (which I'm happy about): so I might have to make an after report thread (fingers crossed) and work up a backstory/dossier.

But any recommendations on better BA for a force mostly centered around 3067 but could stretch to about 3085? I like the Rogue Bear art immensely but not sure of their capabilities in game. Eventually I'll acquire enough Ghost Bears to field a Cluster and then Galaxy of mixed Ages because who needs more than one In we Sphere Regiment of mercenaries.... actually side question now that I think about it...

Would the Rasalhague Dominion (in like the DA era) actually hire mercenaries? My two cents would be no, but they did fight along the Vegan Rangers in Trial by Chaos so I'm not a hundred percent sure ...

Anyways thanks again for the help!

[Natasha Kerensky]

But any recommendations on better BA for a force mostly centered around 3067 but could stretch to about 3085? I like the Rogue Bear art immensely but not sure of their capabilities in game.

I think the Elemental with the APGR has the Rogue Bear beat or at least at a draw.

Against armor, both can throw three, 2-3 point hits out to nine hexes for a couple turns.  The Rogue Bear can do that a couple more turns than the Elemental, but the Elemental can keep up a 3-point shot indefinitely after the Rogue Bear’s missiles run out.  Probably a draw.

Against infantry, the Rogue Bear has to close to within 3 hexes to bring its MGs into play while the Elemental can stay safer at 9 hexes with the APGR and still enjoy vicious damage bonuses.  I give this to the Elemental.

In terms of survivability, the Rogue Bear has more armor, but the Elemental has an extra +1 hit modifier thanks to its 3-hex jumps.  Probably a draw.

In terms of mobility, both can mechanize, but the Elemental is 50% more mobile once dismounted.  I give this to the Elemental.

And for Swarm and Leg attacks, the Elemental wins.  The Rogue Bear simply can’t.

So I’d make the core of your battle armor force the Elemental (APGR).

I think the only other native Bear BA produced in that timeframe is the Golem.  I like the Support variant myself.  Just make sure you have some IFV/APC transpo.

The Bears pick up the Kobold with the Rasalhagians.  The loadouts with the Light TAG as a squad support weapon might be a cheap way to get TAG on the field in a BV-constrained game.

If the MUL allows in that timeframe, I’d also pick up some Salamanders for face-hugging anti-mech attack’s and pair with your Fire Moths and Vipers.

Also if the MUL allows, maybe some Gnomes for your heavier, slower Omnis, but the Elemental (APGR) is arguably just as good if not better.

Later on, the Wraith is another great facehugger produced by the Bears, but not in your timeframe.  Same goes for the very cheap ECM, Probe, and TAG support provided by variants of the Constable, especially in BV-limited games.  Also, the Kobold IIC is a nice, cheap, but very mobile TAG spotter and ECM generator down the line.

Would the Rasalhague Dominion (in like the DA era) actually hire mercenaries?

I say no way.  The Rasalhagians were burned by mercs when they split with the DC, and the Bears found the underhanded, win-at-all-costs tactics of the Black Omen and other mercs during Operational Revival very dezgra.  I wish it were otherwise, but that’s how the canon treats Dominion attitudes towards mercs.  Maybe with time things would change by the Dark Age, but I doubt such in your timeframe.

[Tyler Jorgensson]

Damn you rule of cool making me pick things that are very suboptimal lol

Thanks for he help. Gonna work on expanding my Assault Binary and Supernova Trinary into a full cluster so this is excellent help. Next job is painting and mounting hex bases.

[Natasha Kerensky]

Damn you rule of cool making me pick things that are very suboptimal lol

There’s nothing wrong with the Rogue Bear.  It just falls a little short of the Elemental (APGR).  The biggest sin is the loss of anti-mech attacks.  But if you can live without those, go for the flavor.

Thanks for he help. Gonna work on expanding my Assault Binary and Supernova Trinary into a full cluster so this is excellent help. Next job is painting and mounting hex bases.

My top three mech choices as you grow...

The Karhu heavy omnimech comes out in your timeframe.  Several of the configs are downright dangerous.  I especially like the D.  High BV, but if you’re playing tonnage restricted games, it’s another quality design like the T-Wolf and S-Crow but with clear Bear flavor.

The Arcas is a quality, mobile, heavy second line mech.  I like the 2 for a relatively cheap way to get a couple ER PPCs on the board, and it pairs well with the original’s massedStreaks.

If you want Rasalhagian flavor, the Viking is a way to get it while contributing usefully with Spheroid tech.  Sure, it’s slow for a Bear formation, but 70 LRMs with Artemis from the backfield are nothing to sneeze at.  There’s also an A5 variant to keep it way out of harm’s way while contributing usefully.

Some other mechs to consider...

The Executioner is classic Bear and has some nice configs.  Not so great in tonnage or BV games — it’s high in both.  But you may want one or two in a cluster TO&E for the flavor.

The Kodiak is the second line Executioner and has the same pros and cons.  Some nice variants in your timeframe, but again you pay a high price in tonnage or BV for them.

On other second line designs, I’d probably take the Grizzly over the Bruin.  They have the same solid, generalist, long-range loadout, but the Grizzly is 10 tons lighter and faster/more mobile.  I’m not sure the loss of a couple tons of armor and the Bruin’s Streaks are worth it.  (There’s also a Karhu config with the Grizzly loadout.)

According to the MUL, the Bears have access to the Solitaire from the get-go.  It’s speed and hole-punching pair well with Fire Moth speed and Elemental crit-seeking.

If you play dirty with Thunder, smoke, and similar munitions, the Bear Cub 3’s dual LRM-5s are a relatively cheap way to deliver said munitions.

For combat vehicles, the Bears don’t offer much new, but I do like the pairing of the Tyr and Svantovit for Golem deployment and support.  The Tyr clears with way with its Streaks and delivers the Golems while the Svantovit provides LRM support (again mines, smoke, etc.) from a safer distance.  The Tyr can then join the Svantovit to add its ER Large Laser to the ranged support and either can rush in and retrieve the Golems if necessary.

Hope this helps.

[Tyler Jorgensson]

I mean eventually I'm gonna get some because they are cool. But after getting a taste for anti-mech attacks I agree you are right.

I've got Kodiaks, Executioners, and Bear Cubs already. And ironically enough I've actuall been considering many of those same choices, although the Solitarie escaped me. The only reason I wouldn't consider it is it's not an Omni-Mech and right now the light star I have is all Omni's (two Fire Moth's, two Vipers, and one Mist Lynx) for carrying my Elementals into the backfield (in a larger game of course).

The Tyr's are definetly on my list. The Svantovit's as well and I figured rounding out the Star would be two SM1's (clearly salvaged from Nova Cat or Combine forces). Four Eponas and pair of the other vehicles each will give me more that a supportive Star of Battle Armor which means I could throw some Golem, Salamanders, or Rogue Bears in there.

I don't often want to do tonnage restricted but most of my opponents prefer the simplicity of it. I want to learn more BT of course so eventually BV balanced games will be played of course. And then I'll try an introduce AS to the mix for people so I might get to play a full Cluster lol.

[Jellico]

For combat vehicles, the Bears don’t offer much new,

Say it with me. "Axel IIC".

[Natasha Kerensky]

Say it with me. "Axel IIC".

Good catch.  Adds some Rasalhagian flavor in addition to being one of the best line tanks in the game.

[Tyler Jorgensson]

Too slow for the light Trinary that my vehicles are in but agree

[Foxx Ital]

Gonna order a star of mechs this weekend after payday, any suggestions? Nothing specific in mind hence why I'm asking.

[Tyler Jorgensson]

Well I'll take two Karhu's, 2 Viking IC's, two Tyr Hovertanks, 15 Rogue Bears, and 10 Golems.... oh you meant for you?

What Ghost Bear forces do you have currently? What gaps are their in your forces? Do you have Kirghiz's dropping Elementals? Do you have a Supernova Trinary with a boat load of speed demons? What about a 3150 force?

[Foxx Ital]

Well I'll take two Karhu's, 2 Viking IC's, two Tyr Hovertanks, 15 Rogue Bears, and 10 Golems.... oh you meant for you?

What Ghost Bear forces do you have currently? What gaps are their in your forces? Do you have Kirghiz's dropping Elementals? Do you have a Supernova Trinary with a boat load of speed demons? What about a 3150 force?

Kek. Bear wise I have a karhu and a mad dog mk4.  Started a group so I have incentive to start building some forces. My end goal bear wise is roughly 2 trinary's painted in rasalhague galaxy colors.

[Tyler Jorgensson]

Definetly a Kodiak is needed along with an Executioner. Vipers or Fire Moths and some Eponas, along with probably at least a Timber Wolf or two, a Grizzly, and some Elementals.

Then sprinkle in some Rasalhague Mechs, Lyran Mechs, ComStar, and Kuritan Mechs (at least one per star). My favorite is of course the Berserker. Of course based on the time frame some of those might not be in your force because they are so old, depends on whether or not you want a more Front Line feel or second line feel.

Just my two cents.

[Jellico]

Is a Kingfisher with a fully armoured XL engine and armoured compact gyro still a Kingfisher?

[Foxx Ital]

Is a Kingfisher with a fully armoured XL engine and armoured compact gyro still a Kingfisher?

 Becomes a EmporerFisher.

[Jellico]

Hmmm. A Kingfisher is hard to modernize. It is using Endo and Ferro already. The std engine is iconic and you have to go 4/6 because 90 tons is a break point. You can't just slap XL gyros and small cockpits on everything and anything else new cuts into pod tonnage.

[Foxx Ital]

It's one of those mechs that's a classic as is, the zombie factor really does it for me. What I wanna see is a Imp IIc since one of our founders is famous for piloting one.

[Deadborder]

I'd just load the Kingfisher down with energy weapons, a Targeting Computer and a Radical Heat Sink for funsies.

[Tyler Jorgensson]

Agreed to the previous couple of posts. While a cool NuTech Kingfisher would be cool, I don't know how much you could really do.

The Imp IIC would be an interesting second line option I could see loaded down with fire support options similar to the Imp C except maybe because it's a Bear mech a bit faster, IDK.

Now on other business: Trothkin the Hell Horses have demanded another Trial! This time my battle will be 450 tons on a slightly larger map (I think a two by two).

In terms of my machines I'm definetly going to switch a couple variants around , probably add a Stormcrow and maybe the Nova Cat B or E for fire support.  I want to bring the Kodiak and the Berserker but on the larger map I would think these might be a liability without a larger supporting force. However an Executioner might fit the bill  and while higher in tonnage it might be worth it.

Any additional advice my trothkin?