Author Topic: What does the new option 'Minimum Distance of Relation for Marriage to be..'?  (Read 1820 times)

PuppyLikesLaserPointers

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1756
The full name of it is, Minimum Distance of Relation for Marriage to be Possible.

It seems for allow/prevent marriage between cousins(a family member that shares the same grandparent), but what's the number actually means?

I have tried to make a new family just for testing this, and it concluded that cousins are able to marry if the number is 1 or 0. 0 allows uncle-niece or aunt-nephew marriage. But what's the numbers are came for? Is it just put 0 as avunculate marriage and it is broaded? Or is there any standards for this?

Then what does 3 or 4(default was 4, if I remember correctly) does?

monbvol

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13267
  • I said don't look!
I haven't looked into it much.  I had just assumed it was the number of generations to go back to find a common ancestor  before it would allow marriage.

Now I just might have to experiment a bit to see what it does really mean.

Windchild

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 297
That is exactly what it is, and trying to name it was not an easy thing to do.

However, it is bugged so that it only lightly verifies between family members that go back up to x (default 4) generations. I've been trying to figure out how to fix it but the problem is a rather difficult one to parse.
MegaMek Developer - MekHQ, Personnel, and Internal Focus
MegaMek Discord
MegaMek Projects Wiki
Bug Trackers
MegaMek Tracker
MekHQ Tracker
MegaMekLab Tracker

Rince Wind

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 170
So when I roleplay as the descendants of the pharaos I need to set it to 0 so my children can marry their proper partner? ;)

PuppyLikesLaserPointers

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1756
So when I roleplay as the descendants of the pharaos I need to set it to 0 so my children can marry their proper partner? ;)

No 0 only allows avunculate marriage. In order to do this, you need to manually open the save file with a XML editor, find checkMutualAncestorsDepth and change it to around -2. Perhaps -1 also works but I didn't tried that. After save the file, and open it, you can do that. -_-.

Note that while it doesn't cause crash, you cannot open the campaign setting while the value is negative, so after you did your job you better save it again, edit the number to 0 or more, and load it again.

pfarland

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1769
  • Star Captain Farland - 'Forever Faithful'

So when I roleplay as the descendants of the pharaos I need to set it to 0 so my children can marry their proper partner? ;)

No 0 only allows avunculate marriage. In order to do this, you need to manually open the save file with a XML editor, find checkMutualAncestorsDepth and change it to around -2. Perhaps -1 also works but I didn't tried that. After save the file, and open it, you can do that. -_-.

Note that while it doesn't cause crash, you cannot open the campaign setting while the value is negative, so after you did your job you better save it again, edit the number to 0 or more, and load it again.

We have reached an all new low people. Congratulations!!! LMAO Not sure what's worse, having a campaign where severe levels of incestous relationships are involved or quickly coming up with a way to break the game to allow it.
Rule number 4 of product design*: "The concept of 'Intended Use' never survives initial contact with the end user." - Feign

"It should come to no surprise that this forum loves solving problems with war crimes. " - SteelRaven

NeonKnight

  • Freelance Writer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 6324
  • Cause Them My Initials!
Not sure what the issue is really. Historically, almost every culture practiced this:

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2010/09/tut-dna-dobbs/

Including up until the 20th century to the extent that around the time of WWII The Royal Family of England was so closely to Czars, that it was Prince Phillipe's DNA used to determine if remains were that of the Russian Royals.

https://www.townandcountrymag.com/society/tradition/a22133006/prince-harry-prince-philip-related-to-the-russian-romanovs/

Honestly, with BT's pseudo-feudal storyline, I'm surprised there is not more first/second cousin marriages to 'keep the bloodline pure'
AGENT #575, Vancouver Canada

monbvol

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13267
  • I said don't look!
I feel at this point I should submit the case of Alaric Ward.  Also Danai Liao-Centrella.

So it isn't unheard of.

pfarland

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1769
  • Star Captain Farland - 'Forever Faithful'
Twas a joke, hence the "LMAO".
Rule number 4 of product design*: "The concept of 'Intended Use' never survives initial contact with the end user." - Feign

"It should come to no surprise that this forum loves solving problems with war crimes. " - SteelRaven

NeonKnight

  • Freelance Writer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 6324
  • Cause Them My Initials!
I was 99% sure but hey, one is never 100% sure.
AGENT #575, Vancouver Canada

pfarland

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1769
  • Star Captain Farland - 'Forever Faithful'
No worries, one is only 1 from 100, lol
Rule number 4 of product design*: "The concept of 'Intended Use' never survives initial contact with the end user." - Feign

"It should come to no surprise that this forum loves solving problems with war crimes. " - SteelRaven

PuppyLikesLaserPointers

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1756
Well, still it is very, verrrrrrrrrrrrrrry unlikely to see. At least not openly. But as you know, political marriage between the close relative was not so uncommon, as the history of Habsburg - after spread out the family member through the royal family of europe, after some centuries many royal family are close relatives of each other. Although they try to avoid of marriage between too close relatives, but avunculate marriage or cousin marriage was sometimes allowed by the pope, by needs of political reason.

------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, the main reason to open the thread is, what's the base of the number? Is the number means step to the family-3? So a person's parents/childs are 1-3=-2, siblings and grandparents are 2-3=-1, uncle/aunt/niece/nephew are 3-3=0, cousins area 4-3=1, so on.

Windchild

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 297
It should be same parents are not allowed by 1, same grandparents are not allowed by 2, and increase by generations for each additional number above that.
As for the possible values, it is restricted to 0 to 20 IIRC.

Again, the base determination is bugged and being looked at so YMMV currently.
MegaMek Developer - MekHQ, Personnel, and Internal Focus
MegaMek Discord
MegaMek Projects Wiki
Bug Trackers
MegaMek Tracker
MekHQ Tracker
MegaMekLab Tracker

PuppyLikesLaserPointers

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1756
It should be same parents are not allowed by 1, same grandparents are not allowed by 2, and increase by generations for each additional number above that.
As for the possible values, it is restricted to 0 to 20 IIRC.

Again, the base determination is bugged and being looked at so YMMV currently.

If siblings(two steps, consider parents as one entity for the tree) are not allowed by 1, and cousins(four steps) are not allowed by 2, then where is the place for aunt/uncle/nephew/niece(that is three steps)? It seems that they need to take the place of 2, and cousins are 3.

Anyway I see your burden. It must be complicated.

All I can think about the track is, count how many people are on the line. Parents and childrens are one step. Siblings and grandparents/childrens are two steps.

Aunt/uncle/nephew/niece are three steps(parents-grandparents-aunt/uncle or parents-siblings-nephew/niece).

Cousins(parents-grandparents-aunt/uncle-cousin) and grandparents' sibling(parents-grandparents-greatGrandParents-grandparents' sibling) are four steps.

Second cousin is six steps(parents-grandparents-greatGrandParents-grandparents' sibling-parents'cousin-second cousin).

 
« Last Edit: 12 July 2020, 11:27:44 by PuppyLikesLaserPointers »

pfarland

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1769
  • Star Captain Farland - 'Forever Faithful'
I'm seeing a long running merc unit that is entirely owned Mechs and all) by a long line on inbred idiots. They are just stuck into simulators while the dynasty's vizier is the one that does the actual work while balancing out the inanities of wants and needs by the current owner.
Rule number 4 of product design*: "The concept of 'Intended Use' never survives initial contact with the end user." - Feign

"It should come to no surprise that this forum loves solving problems with war crimes. " - SteelRaven

Windchild

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 297
The longest path back is (or should be) used to determine it.

Aunt/uncle/cousins/niece/nephew share grandparents, so they are not allowed by 2.

If you were trying to marry your great-grand-aunt, that would be 1 step for her or 4 for you, so 4 disables it.
MegaMek Developer - MekHQ, Personnel, and Internal Focus
MegaMek Discord
MegaMek Projects Wiki
Bug Trackers
MegaMek Tracker
MekHQ Tracker
MegaMekLab Tracker

monbvol

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13267
  • I said don't look!
I don't envy you your self appointed task.  I keep trying to think how I would have handled it(only been 15 years since I studied Java) and yeah it looks to be a mess.

PuppyLikesLaserPointers

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1756
Well, why aunt and uncle are shares the same stage with the grandparents? They are different generations after all, and count both of them as one step will be much, much difficult than just count 1 per one step.

Windchild

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 297
It is all about the closest mutual ancestor. In this case it is a grandparent, so they are both at depth 2

I'm also thinking of renaming it to "Minimum Mutual Ancestor Check Depth for Marriage to be Possible" to make it more obvious what it does (naming this one has been an annoying process).

As for how I've handled it, MekHQ PR #1765 is my PR for genealogy and contains the modifications to determining mutual ancestry (I finished fixing the issues I was looking at last night and today)
MegaMek Developer - MekHQ, Personnel, and Internal Focus
MegaMek Discord
MegaMek Projects Wiki
Bug Trackers
MegaMek Tracker
MekHQ Tracker
MegaMekLab Tracker

PuppyLikesLaserPointers

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1756
It is all about the closest mutual ancestor. In this case it is a grandparent, so they are both at depth 2

I'm also thinking of renaming it to "Minimum Mutual Ancestor Check Depth for Marriage to be Possible" to make it more obvious what it does (naming this one has been an annoying process).

So... the logic you have made is, check the most close ancestor of both personnel, and only check for the distance between that ancestor and either the personnel or the target, whichever higher? It is just my curiosity, but was it actually easier to implement than just count the steps to the target person? Else is it actually a common rule for counting the relations with the other family member(no offense, I ask this just because I don't know about that)?

Anyway change the name will makes it clearly, for what you intended seems only count for the steps between the person or the target and the closest common ancestor, not the steps between both persons. And its previous long name already suggests that it was hard to naming it...

As for how I've handled it, MekHQ PR #1765 is my PR for genealogy and contains the modifications to determining mutual ancestry (I finished fixing the issues I was looking at last night and today)

Finally. Thanks for the long and hard work(as well as a bunch of the others).

Windchild

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 297
I implemented it that way because that's how it has historically been done and was the logic I thought fit the best. It is also a way of thinking I've seen multiple times before for determining whether the relationship is allowable, but I am completely unsure of whether that was from fantasy worldbuilding readings or from medieval life readings I've done over the years (the two can blend a bit when you are looking into the realistic side of fantasy worldbuilding).

The naming is just the annoying part, but that will be fixed in #1765

And my pleasure  :)
MegaMek Developer - MekHQ, Personnel, and Internal Focus
MegaMek Discord
MegaMek Projects Wiki
Bug Trackers
MegaMek Tracker
MekHQ Tracker
MegaMekLab Tracker

Southernskies

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 224
Family founder = 0
Great Aunt = 2
You = 2
Taxicab relationship distance = 4