Author Topic: MotW: Blackjack (Read 37887 times)

Daryk · « **Reply #90 on:** 19 October 2019, 06:07:13 »

How many Medium Lasers does the 3X have? The 1DB only has two, and if the 3X is supposed to be a derivative of that, that could mean more heat sinks (specifically, the Prototype Doubles).

RifleMech · « **Reply #91 on:** 19 October 2019, 10:19:00 »

The BJ-3X has 4 medium lasers. The PPCs replace the AC/2s, ammo, and 1 heat sink, and upgrades the 3 remaining heat sinks do DHS-Ps. It is a 180 rated SFE with 7 SHSs.

Daryk · « **Reply #92 on:** 19 October 2019, 10:24:41 »

Hmmm... yeah, dropping two of those Mediums for two more P-DHS would work pretty well, I think.

Weirdo · « **Reply #93 on:** 19 October 2019, 14:20:27 »

Quote from: RifleMech on 19 October 2019, 05:41:01

The Blackjack 3X has 3 DHS-P, which are the Freezers from Sword & Dragon. It has a total of 13 heat dissipation (7 SHS+3 DHS-Ps). That isn't enough for two PPCs.

It's plenty of you're willing to use your heat scale. A standing 2-1-2-1-1 pattern of ten-point slugs out of a pre-Invasion 45-tonner is a nasty volume of fire against anything its own size, and it can go heavier if you're willing to chance a couple fairly easy shutdown rolls.

Daryk · « **Reply #94 on:** 19 October 2019, 14:39:42 »

Having seen a 'mech fail that 4+ roll (and be headcapped as a result), I no longer characterize ANY shutdown roll as "easy"... 8)

Weirdo · « **Reply #95 on:** 19 October 2019, 15:06:57 »

Rolls like that are what make games worth playing. :)

Daryk · « **Reply #96 on:** 19 October 2019, 15:09:13 »

LOL! Indeed... :thumbsup:

RifleMech · « **Reply #97 on:** 20 October 2019, 16:31:18 »

If you make the shutdown roll you've still got the -2 modifier. You're also -3 MP making retreat difficult. :(

Daryk · « **Reply #98 on:** 20 October 2019, 16:37:52 »

Also true, though I'll say the 'mech I saw shutdown could have made it off the board with the -3 MP...

Hellraiser · « **Reply #99 on:** 20 October 2019, 16:38:43 »

The basic 3025 Blackjack is probably the best use of AC2's on a mech that I have ever seen.

The 3040's BJ-3 turns around & makes it even better with a brutal punch for a 45t mech at that range & is an easy class-D repair bay refit.

I'm not a huge fan of most of the other variants or the Omni. But those 2 above are gems in my book.

Hellraiser · « **Reply #100 on:** 20 October 2019, 16:39:43 »

Quote from: RifleMech on 20 October 2019, 16:31:18

You're also -3 MP making retreat difficult. :(

The 4 JJ's don't care about your -3 MP issue.

Daryk · « **Reply #101 on:** 20 October 2019, 16:44:15 »

Agreed about the Blackjack... the Vulcan's not bad, either. It has the speed to keep the range open at a walk against heavier opponents.

Weirdo · « **Reply #102 on:** 20 October 2019, 21:36:08 »

Quote from: RifleMech on 20 October 2019, 16:31:18

If you make the shutdown roll you've still got the -2 modifier. You're also -3 MP making retreat difficult. :(

If you're willing to spike to shutdown, you're not in a retreating mood. Carpe Caseum!

RifleMech · « **Reply #103 on:** 21 October 2019, 00:41:17 »

Quote from: Hellraiser on 20 October 2019, 16:39:43

The 4 JJ's don't care about your -3 MP issue.

True but the heat of jumping could cause another shutdown roll.

Quote from: Weirdo on 20 October 2019, 21:36:08

If you're willing to spike to shutdown, you're not in a retreating mood. Carpe Caseum!

True but life is cheap. Mechs are expensive. ;)

Weirdo · « **Reply #104 on:** 21 October 2019, 08:49:58 »

Make sure the other guy's mech is more expensive. >:D

JadeHellbringer · « **Reply #105 on:** 21 October 2019, 09:25:14 »

Quote from: Weirdo on 21 October 2019, 08:49:58

Make sure the other guy's mech is more expensive. >:D

If that isn't the Sea Fox slogan in the Dark Age, I don't know how to live with such an oversight.

Arkansas Warrior · « **Reply #106 on:** 21 October 2019, 11:00:42 »

Quote from: Weirdo on 20 October 2019, 21:36:08

If you're willing to spike to shutdown, you're not in a retreating mood. Carpe Caseum!

Seize the...cheese? ???

Sartris · « **Reply #107 on:** 21 October 2019, 11:06:37 »

what else would one seize?

Weirdo · « **Reply #108 on:** 21 October 2019, 11:18:49 »

I have other thoughts, but not on this forum. :)

Daryk · « **Reply #109 on:** 21 October 2019, 15:20:49 »

That's only because you're a mod now... 8)

Wrangler · « **Reply #110 on:** 21 October 2019, 15:29:54 »

Is the Dark Crow quasi Clan cousin to the Black Jack?

RifleMech · « **Reply #111 on:** 22 October 2019, 04:06:03 »

Quote from: Weirdo on 21 October 2019, 08:49:58

Make sure the other guy's mech is more expensive. >:D

:))

JadeHellbringer · « **Reply #112 on:** 22 October 2019, 13:55:22 »

Quote from: Wrangler on 21 October 2019, 15:29:54

Is the Dark Crow quasi Clan cousin to the Black Jack?

I never stopped to think about it, but the similarities in layout are pretty obvious now that you mention it. I wouldn't call it a Blackjack IIC, but I wouldn't be surprised if the scientists and engineers behind the Crow had old Blackjack blueprints on their walls. Good call!

Arkansas Warrior · « **Reply #113 on:** 22 October 2019, 14:27:28 »

I prefer my own theory that the Sun Cobra is the Blackjack IIC. But I can definitely see similarities. I suppose both the Wolves and Ravens recognized the sublime majesty of the Blackjack, and adapted it to Clan technology in different ways.

Chinless · « **Reply #114 on:** 23 October 2019, 14:37:57 »

Quote from: RifleMech on 19 October 2019, 05:41:01

The Blackjack 3X has 3 DHS-P, which are the Freezers from Sword & Dragon. It has a total of 13 heat dissipation (7 SHS+3 DHS-Ps). That isn't enough for two PPCs.

The full stats for the BJ-3X have never been released, so we don't know what it has in terms of heat dissipation.

Chris

RifleMech · « **Reply #115 on:** 24 October 2019, 06:26:41 »

Quote from: Chinless on 23 October 2019, 14:37:57

The full stats for the BJ-3X have never been released, so we don't know what it has in terms of heat dissipation.

Chris

TRO:3039 tells us what modifications were made to the Blackjack BJ-1 to create the BJ-3X variant. Replacement of the Autocannons, ammo, and 1 heat sink with 2 PPCs. Three of the remaining heat sinks were replaced with DHS-P. The BJ-1 had 11 heat sinks. Removing 1 SHS and replacing 3 others with DHS-P gives the BJ-3X the ability to remove 13 point of heat.

VhenRa · « **Reply #116 on:** 25 October 2019, 18:28:25 »

Hmm... the Alpha Strike stats on MUL also line up for a 7 SHS/3 DHS design. Without those extra MLs, it doesn't do enough damage to get 2/2/2 OV2.

Crimson Dawn · « **Reply #117 on:** 20 November 2019, 02:38:45 »

I am always thinking it is so odd that they made the BJ-3 come out during 4SW 20 years before the BJ2 existed. I know they probably designed it later outside the game but it seems odd to give it that designation in universe. You would think they would have called it like BJ-1a or something.

glitterboy2098 · « **Reply #118 on:** 20 November 2019, 09:25:23 »

it is an oddity.. the result of a mix of the BJ-3 being retroactively inserted into the setting well after the BJ-2 had been established in TRO3050, and the general FASA trend of not giving a [bleep].

honestly though i wouldn't be surprised if maybe the prototype for what would become the BJ-2 didn't exist already in setting (a BJ-2X or something), leading to the BJ-3.
given that it looks likely that both were built on St.ives. if the BJ-2 prototype had a lot of growing pains (or just a lot of redesigns) i could see a 20 year development cycle. especially if the design got shelved for a bit after the 4th succession war and then revisited around 3039. we've honestly seen worse in the setting.

grimlock1 · « **Reply #119 on:** 20 November 2019, 09:56:08 »

Quote from: Crimson Dawn on 20 November 2019, 02:38:45

I am always thinking it is so odd that they made the BJ-3 come out during 4SW 20 years before the BJ2 existed. I know they probably designed it later outside the game but it seems odd to give it that designation in universe. You would think they would have called it like BJ-1a or something.

That is a bit of an "oops." On the other hand, rule of cool dominates designation/numbering convention in this setting. The letter suffix is sometimes a good clue as to which faction it goes with but not always, especially pre-TRO 3050 material. FASA started to tighten up the faction specific machines in TRO 3055.