Author Topic: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)  (Read 136220 times)

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #30 on: 21 September 2019, 00:41:26 »
That sounds like one extraordinarily lost Sherman.  Not that it'd be hard in that situation, but weird happens.
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DoctorMonkey

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #31 on: 21 September 2019, 02:54:02 »
That sounds like one extraordinarily lost Sherman.  Not that it'd be hard in that situation, but weird happens.


There were some amazing "war trophies" kept by units, either "lost" equipment they found, equipment listed as destroyed that then got repaired at a unit level but had already been replaced (perhaps more of an experience for the Allies than German forces!), and captured enemy gear - one example was "Cuckoo" the captured Panther Tank used by the Coldstream Guards (technically an infantry regiment - Foot Guards - but operating as armour).
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CDAT

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #32 on: 21 September 2019, 06:30:23 »

There were some amazing "war trophies" kept by units, either "lost" equipment they found, equipment listed as destroyed that then got repaired at a unit level but had already been replaced (perhaps more of an experience for the Allies than German forces!), and captured enemy gear - one example was "Cuckoo" the captured Panther Tank used by the Coldstream Guards (technically an infantry regiment - Foot Guards - but operating as armour).

Years ago I read a book on the battle at the Chosin Reservoir, at the end of the book it listed the entire MTOE of a combat engineer unit (had nothing really to do with the rest of the book) and it was pretty normal until the last line and it was Sherman Tank Platoon with crews.

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #33 on: 21 September 2019, 06:48:39 »
On that note, there's actually a 105mm howitzer Sherman at Fort Benning that's had a truly amazing history.  I hope they restore it only to the point of preventing any further deterioration, and let her wear her battle scars with pride.

According to the video:  This tank started with the Americans, and deployed to and fought in Italy during WWII.  It's later given to the Italian army under the mutual-defense programs, and then prior to 1979 is sold to the Iranians and served under the Shah, and then under the Ayatollah.  It goes on to fight against the Iraqis, is captured by their forces, and used against the Iranians.  Then it gets weird - it was still serving with the Iraqis in 1991, and was engaged by forces under 2nd Armored Division, possibly during 3rd Brigade's push through the Battle of 73 Easting or the Battle of Norfolk.  Left behind, it was repaired by the Iraqis and returned to service, reappearing again in 2003 when it was spotted hiding under a bridge and was plinked by a Maverick missile - the splashed damage visible behind the turret is from that hit.  After that, she got brought home.
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DoctorMonkey

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #34 on: 21 September 2019, 07:54:04 »
On that note, there's actually a 105mm howitzer Sherman at Fort Benning that's had a truly amazing history.  I hope they restore it only to the point of preventing any further deterioration, and let her wear her battle scars with pride.

According to the video:  This tank started with the Americans, and deployed to and fought in Italy during WWII.  It's later given to the Italian army under the mutual-defense programs, and then prior to 1979 is sold to the Iranians and served under the Shah, and then under the Ayatollah.  It goes on to fight against the Iraqis, is captured by their forces, and used against the Iranians.  Then it gets weird - it was still serving with the Iraqis in 1991, and was engaged by forces under 2nd Armored Division, possibly during 3rd Brigade's push through the Battle of 73 Easting or the Battle of Norfolk.  Left behind, it was repaired by the Iraqis and returned to service, reappearing again in 2003 when it was spotted hiding under a bridge and was plinked by a Maverick missile - the splashed damage visible behind the turret is from that hit.  After that, she got brought home.


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Kidd

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #35 on: 21 September 2019, 08:51:19 »
Didnt some American infantry division practically motorised itself with captured German vehicles?

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #36 on: 21 September 2019, 11:14:15 »
On that note, there's actually a 105mm howitzer Sherman at Fort Benning that's had a truly amazing history.  I hope they restore it only to the point of preventing any further deterioration, and let her wear her battle scars with pride.

According to the video:  This tank started with the Americans, and deployed to and fought in Italy during WWII.  It's later given to the Italian army under the mutual-defense programs, and then prior to 1979 is sold to the Iranians and served under the Shah, and then under the Ayatollah.  It goes on to fight against the Iraqis, is captured by their forces, and used against the Iranians.  Then it gets weird - it was still serving with the Iraqis in 1991, and was engaged by forces under 2nd Armored Division, possibly during 3rd Brigade's push through the Battle of 73 Easting or the Battle of Norfolk.  Left behind, it was repaired by the Iraqis and returned to service, reappearing again in 2003 when it was spotted hiding under a bridge and was plinked by a Maverick missile - the splashed damage visible behind the turret is from that hit.  After that, she got brought home.

Murphy and Gruyere...that's some frigging history right there... :o
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Cannonshop

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #37 on: 21 September 2019, 11:21:45 »
Didnt some American infantry division practically motorised itself with captured German vehicles?
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Matti

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #38 on: 21 September 2019, 13:53:14 »
That sounds like one extraordinarily lost Sherman.  Not that it'd be hard in that situation, but weird happens.
Found it. Though video mentions some variety between different units, it describes that setup as a basic one.
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ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #39 on: 21 September 2019, 16:10:58 »
Murphy and Gruyere...that's some frigging history right there... :o
Yeah, that's one of those tanks where as-is preservation rather than restoration is the name of the day.  There's a hell of a story in that armor, let it show!
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CDAT

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #40 on: 22 September 2019, 23:18:11 »
On that note, there's actually a 105mm howitzer Sherman at Fort Benning that's had a truly amazing history.  I hope they restore it only to the point of preventing any further deterioration, and let her wear her battle scars with pride.

According to the video:  This tank started with the Americans, and deployed to and fought in Italy during WWII.  It's later given to the Italian army under the mutual-defense programs, and then prior to 1979 is sold to the Iranians and served under the Shah, and then under the Ayatollah.  It goes on to fight against the Iraqis, is captured by their forces, and used against the Iranians.  Then it gets weird - it was still serving with the Iraqis in 1991, and was engaged by forces under 2nd Armored Division, possibly during 3rd Brigade's push through the Battle of 73 Easting or the Battle of Norfolk.  Left behind, it was repaired by the Iraqis and returned to service, reappearing again in 2003 when it was spotted hiding under a bridge and was plinked by a Maverick missile - the splashed damage visible behind the turret is from that hit.  After that, she got brought home.

I did not know about this tank, but did know that when we took over some of the Iraqi bases they had some Shermans on them. As we were clearing out warehouses on one, we saw another unit loading on to a flatbed what looked like almost factory new Easy 8, talking with some of them later, there was spare parts and ammo stored with it.

Wereling

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #41 on: 23 September 2019, 08:38:31 »
I've been writing a story over in the Fan Fiction board, and trying to do some research about tank operation. Today I came across a M551 Sheridan training film on YouTube, I thought thought it might be interesting enough to post here. Here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z24YQMrK9Gs]

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #42 on: 23 September 2019, 12:26:46 »
I did not know about this tank, but did know that when we took over some of the Iraqi bases they had some Shermans on them. As we were clearing out warehouses on one, we saw another unit loading on to a flatbed what looked like almost factory new Easy 8, talking with some of them later, there was spare parts and ammo stored with it.
Probably from the same provenance as that one in the video, captured from the Iranian supplies bought from Italy.  Wonder how many of those Shermans went home as gate guards.
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Garrand

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #43 on: 23 September 2019, 16:02:53 »
IIRC they found a lot of crazy stuff in boneyards in Iraq. Like a 10.5 cm leFH 18(Sf) auf Geschützwagen Lorraine Schlepper (f). Where the heck did THAT come from???

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kato

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #44 on: 23 September 2019, 17:22:43 »
Like a 10.5 cm leFH 18(Sf) auf Geschützwagen Lorraine Schlepper (f). Where the heck did THAT come from???
Most captured WW2 equipment that still worked and wasn't clandestinely stripped by people ended up dumped in Iraq and Syria (and Israel) between the mid 40s and early 50s. Italian tanks too for example.

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #45 on: 23 September 2019, 18:43:59 »
IIRC they found a lot of crazy stuff in boneyards in Iraq. Like a 10.5 cm leFH 18(Sf) auf Geschützwagen Lorraine Schlepper (f). Where the heck did THAT come from???

damon.

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chanman

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #46 on: 23 September 2019, 21:47:14 »


The PLA's new Type 15 light tank at a parade rehearsal. It supposedly has modular armour that can be swapped at the unit level. Somewhat M8-esque, although I'm curious whether it's heavy enough to edge into 'medium' or at least 'just shy of MBT' territory like the IFV-derived LT-105 (from the ASCOD) or the CV90120 (from the CV9030/9040) or TAM

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #47 on: 24 September 2019, 00:41:27 »
IIRC they found a lot of crazy stuff in boneyards in Iraq. Like a 10.5 cm leFH 18(Sf) auf Geschützwagen Lorraine Schlepper (f). Where the heck did THAT come from???

damon.
Mostly France and Czehoslovakia. They both used lot of captured German gear in their rebuilt armed forces and gradualy phased it out as more American/Soviet surplus became avaiable, along with their domestic production, selling off the unneeded weapons.
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Dave Talley

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #48 on: 24 September 2019, 00:49:36 »
any lorraine schlepper could also have passed thru the foreign legion,
during or after ww2
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CDAT

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #49 on: 24 September 2019, 01:41:42 »
Probably from the same provenance as that one in the video, captured from the Iranian supplies bought from Italy.  Wonder how many of those Shermans went home as gate guards.

Possibly, but it was still painted OD with the  Allies Star on it like it was in WWII. So the best guess anyone I have talked with so far had is that it was US Supplied to them during WWII or right after and just bounced around the country there after.

Luciora

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #50 on: 25 September 2019, 00:14:23 »
I...just can't even.

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #51 on: 25 September 2019, 00:18:43 »
Bah, that's not armored or fighting!

This however, well...it's not the weirdest Sherman variant around.



Okay maybe it is.  Needs some more spikes and chains, and a bunch of skulls on top.
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #52 on: 25 September 2019, 00:37:29 »
Is that a Sherman that was turned into a tractor?
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ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #53 on: 25 September 2019, 00:41:50 »
Anti-mine conversion, basically sits too high up to be really affected and the wheels sink down deep enough to get at anything buried at a functional depth.  So it literally blows up the road as it goes along.  Witness him!
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #54 on: 25 September 2019, 00:50:31 »
An alternative to the anti-mine flail, I guess.
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Ruger

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #55 on: 25 September 2019, 03:37:55 »
Ok, that’s one I hadn’t seen before.

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Wereling

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #56 on: 25 September 2019, 07:59:41 »
Anti-mine conversion, basically sits too high up to be really affected and the wheels sink down deep enough to get at anything buried at a functional depth.  So it literally blows up the road as it goes along.  Witness him!

That HAS to be British. If Hobart didn't do that I'd be mildly stunned.

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #57 on: 25 September 2019, 13:53:15 »

Some more:
Mine Exploder T10

"Its underside was thickened with 25mm steel and the sides were adapted to give room for the huge 96-inch wheels. The rear wheel had a diameter of 72 inches. It weighed 116,400 lbs and could attain a maximum speed of 3kmph while clearing mines and 10kmph on a clear road. The T10 was tested in 1944 but was rejected due to its heavy weight and related drawbacks."

Apparently the thing was remote controlled, and they added another inch of armor to the underbelly. 

That HAS to be British. If Hobart didn't do that I'd be mildly stunned.
Straight up American, apparently.  Looks like whatever Hobart was smoking, he shared some with the allies.
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kato

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #58 on: 25 September 2019, 13:59:49 »
Hobart went for the Sherman Crab instead.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Armored Fighting Vehicles Version M5 (it is a tradition now)
« Reply #59 on: 25 September 2019, 15:32:01 »
"The T10 was tested in 1944 but was rejected due to its heavy weight and related drawbacks."

The ridiculous height and width being chief among them, I'm guessing.
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