The Rise of Skywalker final trailer

[Kentares]

Stuff... read above

I loved Rogue One even if they couldn't think of a way to explain why they weren't in the OT because for all intents it was a suicide mission (that's why I loved RO - although they could have a couple of excuses if someone survived). It was a story about the grunts (sort of).

I liked Solo but the point about the fuel is ridiculous (and would certainly be mentioned in other movies since is that important and valued) and I agree with you.

TFA is a mess made to make fans buy the books and comics (and toys) to know how Han and Chewie bump into the Falcon flown by a scavenger girl and a former Stormtrooper which in turn are helping a droid find its owner because he has a piece of a star map about the location of a old Jedi Master that has gone into hiding because his nephew turned to the dark side... Ill stop... its so stupid... ---- (to add insult to injury we know now Leia was trained by Luke but the excuse fanboys will give is that he was a bad teacher or he didn't teach her how to force communicate - or whatever name you want to call it - long distances).

TLJ is a big pile of crap... Snoke which looked an interesting character in TFA was an idiot (together with his guard). Rey turned into a Mary Sue that can kill with a sneeze (the force is strong with this one it seems) and chasing ships for fun is a thing in the First Order (if Vader was around he would have plenty of fun force choking all the FO officers for incompetence). Oh and this one is also made to make fans buy the books and comics (and toys) like TROS will be... but I guess that is expected.

[Scotty]

My favorite thing about these arguments is when people describe the plot and then declare it stupid like that's some self-evident universal truth without actually bothering to take the time or effort to explain why, like I am supposed to take your word for it that your opinion generated from experiencing media is better than mine.

This is the biggest reason I keep metaphorically rolling my eyes and repeating "you don't like it doesn't mean it's bad".  Because all you're doing is saying you don't like it with stronger words.

[Kentares]

"you don't like it doesn't mean it's bad"

Yes it does. When you have only one guy complaining you could be right but this isn't the case... I'm not the only one here and certainly there are a lot more. FWIW from around ten people (among my friends and family) that are Star Wars fans only one says the movie is... ok. All the others hate TLJ and dislike TFA.

Difference is some guys are willing to accept as good almost anything someone does as long as its about something they like. In this case... Star Wars... which brings me to another point... Only Solo bombed in the box office because of that (suffered many problems... its public... deserved a little better).

Most fans will see any movie about Star Wars (me included - Ill see TROS with - I hope - an open mind but from the rumours I read many fans will be upset).

[dgorsman]

My favorite thing about these arguments is when people describe the plot and then declare it stupid like that's some self-evident universal truth without actually bothering to take the time or effort to explain why, like I am supposed to take your word for it that your opinion generated from experiencing media is better than mine.

This is the biggest reason I keep metaphorically rolling my eyes and repeating "you don't like it doesn't mean it's bad".  Because all you're doing is saying you don't like it with stronger words.

 :facepalm:

Somebody just lock this thread.

[Sartris]

Rogue one is my second favorite in the franchise behind empire. No, it doesn’t bother me that they all died. Stealing the plans for the Death Star should have probably been nearly impossible in the first place. War is the last place you should be looking for happy endings. I personally found it a refreshing change

I’m just too old and tired to care whether or not the newest installments were any good. Neither was an atrocity.  In the end raging against the machine is hilariously futile. Disney can’t hear you over the coin getting poured into McDuck’s money bin.

Might have more competently executed films made more money? Maybe, but the suits are going to do what suits do and you were never going to get what you wanted as long as the mouse is running things

[Ruger]

Might have more competently executed films made more money? Maybe, but the suits are going to do what suits do and you were never going to get what you wanted as long as the mouse anyone but “you” is running things

Fixed that for you.

Ruger

[Death Monkey]

solo, maybe I took too much from WEG/ swtor and even the movies but I take the whole hyperspace fuel plot point and say throw it out, it would have been just as easy to say Han got his hands on a vial of spice,  and every time they talk about hyperspace fuel  (except the space monster fight at the end) they were trying to deal with spice from the spice mines of Kessle and it IMO fits with the universe as previously existing with the small exception of its not violent explosive.  but they do have explosive substances like spin sealed tibannia gas (what they were refining on cloud city on besbin.  as to the starship fuel it is a thing but its readily available at every star port. 

I have had a personal theory that the movie was supposed to involve spice.  I am assuming at some point someone from Disney put their foot down and explained that they were never going to make a Star Wars movie with a illegal narcotics dealer as the protagonist.

[Deadborder]

Fixed that for you.

Ruger

I love how much disregarding of evidence that doesn't suit the stance there is here.

I post figures that indicate an overwhealmingly positive audience response to TLJ. And the response is "But you can't take first night audience responses as proof"

[Dubble_g]

My favorite thing about these arguments is when people describe the plot and then declare it stupid like that's some self-evident universal truth without actually bothering to take the time or effort to explain why, like I am supposed to take your word for it that your opinion generated from experiencing media is better than mine.

On the one hand, we're talking about the quality of an entertainment product so yeah, there are no such things as objective opinions. People have said why they don't like them. I don't think we can fault them for not providing reasons you personally feel persuasive.

Now if you want to talk about the underlying storytelling principles rather than specific details, I am very much on board. There's been some discussion about how much needs to be explicit on the screen versus how much onus is on the audience to work things out, and that's been interesting for me to read, at least.

My attempted (ok, aborted) contribution upthread was to look at dramatic clarity:
- Do I understand who these people are and what they want
- Do I understand the conflict that creates
- Do I understand how the motivations drive the characters' actions ... i.e. are they consistent with what I know or have been shown?
- Do those actions build to a climax
- Do I understand the consequences of those actions

Both TFA and TLJ, for all their strengths, fail that test for me because there are actions that seem inconsistent and thrown in to create tension or because those actions don't seem to be leading up to anything.

[Insaniac99]

My favorite thing about these arguments is when people describe the plot and then declare it stupid like that's some self-evident universal truth without actually bothering to take the time or effort to explain why, like I am supposed to take your word for it that your opinion generated from experiencing media is better than mine.

This is the biggest reason I keep metaphorically rolling my eyes and repeating "you don't like it doesn't mean it's bad".  Because all you're doing is saying you don't like it with stronger words.

And yet when I gave just a sampling of specific ways the movie's writing was awful from ruining engagement with overuse of subverting expectations, ending most of the overarching plot points that were started in the first part, and inconsistencies in the plot as it fits with both the movie and the greater universe of the other movies, you instead wanted to discuss semantics instead of my various listed reasons..........

That's not conducive for others to feel willing to bother writing detailed reasoning.

[Scotty]

I'm not here trying to change your mind about whether you like the movie or not.  Every response in this thread I've made has either been to directly confront interpretations and characterizations that are unfair or incorrect, or to agree that the movies aren't prefect even though I like them.

Every post that consists of describing the plot in the most broad strokes possible and planting "it's so stupid" at the end of it is similarly going to get an eyeroll smiley in longform text.

Discussions aren't just about participants, they're also about spectators.

I can take a more adversarial tone to your points in particular if you want, but I don't think It's going to go anywhere.

[Fat Guy]

In the meantime, I found out that Disney have bought back Amaza Foxtrain and Jaxxom. It's good to see them using the best parts of the old Expanded Universe.

Yes, I am being completely sincere.

No they didn't.

Issue 108 is quite clearly marked 'Legends".

Vallance the Hunter did get a reboot though.

[Maingunnery]

I love how much disregarding of evidence that doesn't suit the stance there is here.

I post figures that indicate an overwhealmingly positive audience response to TLJ. And the response is "But you can't take first night audience responses as proof"

For most people the effects of nostalgia and CGI amazement fade after awhile.
Not to mention that the movie was aimed at a completely different audience (and I am not talking generational but character) and seems to be dedicated into making the OT meaningless.

[garhkal]

The implied passage of time.

Firstly we see the crew have all been busy getting new disguises and infiltrating Jabba's palace.

We see Luke's mind trick and lightsaber combat and note his improved proficiency, but not to an extent where he can beat aside all enemies with contemptuous ease. Hits are taken, danger is sensed. He also seems more assured of himself, more matured, and therefore older. The actor's aging helps as well of course. 3 years passed between the films, makeup work and digital cleanup wasn't so advanced then.

Next we hear Luke talk of going back to finish his training. So we know he has been training. Yes it could refer to his ESB training, but coupled with the abovementioned evidence of improvement over the ESB battle and so on, there is sufficient sense to imply that he has been training between films although this is not certain.

Finally we see Yoda has suddenly become older and considerably more decrepit. That puts the nail in. It can't have been say mere weeks since the end of ESB, Yoda can't have grown old so fast.

And there you go. Little pieces put together that forms an indelible impression, lots more subtly than a montage.

(Montage!)

In the Shadows of the Empire novel, he went back to Ben Kenobi's hutt, did some more training and made a new lightsaber.

[Ruger]

In the Shadows of the Empire novel, he went back to Ben Kenobi's hutt, did some more training and made a new lightsaber.

Which is now Legends continuity, and has no bearing on discussion of official canon material.

Ruger

[I am Belch II]

I just have this Meh.....on the trailer. It was Meh....the bar is so low with me hopefully it will be hard to disappoint.

[Ruger]

No they didn't.

Issue 108 is quite clearly marked 'Legends".

Vallance the Hunter did get a reboot though.

They were included in “The Lost Eggs of Livorno” in the Star Wars Adventures Annual 2018. Although aimed at younger audiences (Beginner readers really), afaik, these stories are still considered official canon.

Ruger

[Bosefius]

Locked pending review

[Trace Coburn]

+++MOD NOTICE+++

  Do I have your attention yet?
  Good.  Keep reading.

  Apparently the last notice didn’t sink in, so let’s see if this one does any better.  We appreciate that people want to discuss Star Wars here.  You’re all clearly enthusiastic about it.  That’s the only reason these threads have been permitted to continue despite being a running headache for the moderation staff.

  As noted by Bosefius, this thread has now been locked pending a thorough Moderation review.  DO NOT START A NEW ONE WITHOUT SPECIFIC PERMISSION FROM THE MODERATORS.

  I want everyone posting in here to go reread some of the forum rules.  I’ve even linked the text to make it easier.  Start with Rules 1 and 3, they’re the ones that usually get broken in here, although we’ve certainly had our share of Rule 4 warnings for inappropriate comments.

  Read the rules?  Very good.  Now: follow them.  The comments in Star Wars threads frequently get toxic, are overly confrontational, or verge on personal attacks.  You need to stop doing that if you want this thread to re-open and stay unlocked.

[ActionButler]

**MOD NOTICE**

Due to the repeated violations of multiple forum rules, even after a formal in-thread request, this thread will remain locked.  When Rise of Skywalker opens in theaters, the mods will start a new thread for you to discuss the movie. The first post of that thread will be a very clear warning reminding people to abide by the forum rules.

Anyone who attempts to start a new Star Wars thread between now and the release of Rise of Skywalker will receive a warning and the thread will be locked.

[ActionButler]

**Mod Notice: Episode II**

Before I get any more PMs, yes, the mods are aware of the premiere of The Mandalorian. We are currently having internal discussions about whether or not to allow an exception to the previous Mod Notice. When we come to an agreement, someone will update this thread.

Until we make a decision, however, the above rules still apply. Any attempt to start a new Star Wars thread will earn a warning.

[ActionButler]

**Mod Notice: Episode III**

As promised, there has been a significant amount of internal discussion about this thread, the fate of Star Wars threads in-general, and The Mandalorian. 

While we are not unlocking this thread, the mods agree that a thread about The Mandalorian series should be allowed.  There will be a number of conditions, though.

First of all, one of the mods will create a new topic for Mandalorian discussion next week.  Any attempts to make a thread before we do will be deleted and warnings will be issued.

Second, the reason that we will be responsible for creating the thread is because the first post will be a reminder of the forum rules and very clear instructions that the thread is about The Mandalorian and not Rise of Skywalker. 

Third, owing to the above point, discussion of Rise of Skywalker will not be allowed in the Mandalorian thread. Full stop. The reason this thread was locked was because a not-insignificant number of people couldn't even discuss the Rise of Skywalker TRAILER without breaking the forum rules, so we aren't particularly inclined to give those same people a new avenue for the same discussion.  As a result, we will be watching the Mandalorian thread very closely.

Please understand, the mods get it. We really do. A lot of you guys grew up with Star Wars and have VERY STRONG opinions about the franchise. So do we. But you also agreed to abide by the site rules when you joined this community, and your passion for a completely different franchise does not give you a free "Ignore Those Rules" pass.