That Dark Age Fiction

[abou]

I never read the Dark Age fiction. The closest I got was the ebook of Bonfire of Worlds, which means I was coming in at the end. So I thought about going back and reading the line, but two things occurred to me:

A. I have heard that much of the line is kind of... mediocre. I also heard it gets better.

B. It is a heck of a lot bigger of a line of books than I thought it would be.

So main questions I have:

1. What happened to David Lear?

2. Do any of the books focused on Tucker Harwell and ComStar reveal anything more than what is concluded in Bonfire of Worlds? Anything worth checking out?

3. Any more information about the mysterious forces involved in Clarion Call that took out the HPG network? Is it just seeded throughout the books or does it come up only a few times?

I think that last one is what bothers me the most. Devlin Stone gives it a name, but he was in stasis. Is there some Shakespearean allusion that we are missing to the sword, snake, & shield emblem? A rot within the RotS to bring itself down?

I feel that something would have been stated in the fiction at some point, but the decade gap in novels makes a lot of this feel awkward.

Also, I realized last night the Latin in the RotS insignia is all sorts of wrong. So I can't imagine the RotS is all that competent.

[roosterboy]

A. I have heard that much of the line is kind of... mediocre. I also heard it gets better.

Yes, after the first four or five books they start getting better. They really start nailing things around The Scorpion Jar (which is, IIRC, book 13).

1. What happened to David Lear?

Not answered in the novels. That info is in either Era Digest: Dark Age or Era Report: 3145. or maybe mentioned in both, I forget.

2. Do any of the books focused on Tucker Harwell and ComStar reveal anything more than what is concluded in Bonfire of Worlds? Anything worth checking out?

Target of Opportunity introduces Tucker and him figuring out how to restart HPGs. Of course, as you know if you've read Bonfire, his method isn't always successful. I guess there's not really much in that book that you can't glean from Bonfire.

3. Any more information about the mysterious forces involved in Clarion Call that took out the HPG network? Is it just seeded throughout the books or does it come up only a few times?

Nope, not really. A little bit of info in Blood Avatar references the logo seen on the mysterious attackers. There's a brief discussion of the attackers in Ghost War that talks a bit about their modus operandi. And that's about it.

Also, I realized last night the Latin in the RotS insignia is all sorts of wrong. So I can't imagine the RotS is all that competent.

That's pretty much par for the course when it comes to foreign phrases in BattleTech, unfortunately.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

That's pretty much par for the course when it comes to foreign phrases in BattleTech, unfortunately.

Spelling and grammatical errors can always be explained away as being "correct for how the language is used 1,000 years in the future!"

Even Latin.  "Yeah it's wrong for Classical Latin, but not Noveau Latin!  That's what they all use 1,000 years in the future, donchaknow!"

[roosterboy]

Spelling and grammatical errors can always be explained away as being "correct for how the language is used 1,000 years in the future!"

Even Latin.  "Yeah it's wrong for Classical Latin, but not Noveau Latin!  That's what they all use 1,000 years in the future, donchaknow!"

Yeah, that's always a good go-to explanation. But do we really think anyone is actively using Latin in the 32nd century, outside of maybe the Marians?

It just kinda chaps my hide when you think about how well-preserved information on historical battles like the Alamo or anything from the US Civil War are in some of the novels yet apparently nobody thought to preserve a Lewis & Short or Wheelock. ::)

[abou]

And it isn't as though there aren't several individuals around the boards who wouldn't be willing to help just for the sake of helping.

Anyway, thanks for the information, RB.

EDIT: There it is in the Era Digest: Dark Age timeline

3128 (19 May) David Lear succumbs to Harper-Gambol Syndrome.

DOUBLE EDIT:

3131 (18 Mar) Freedom Day formally created as a Republic holiday.
(7 Apr) Project Jacob’s Ladder initiated by Bannson Universal
Unlimited.
(3 Oct) Bank collapse on Vega.
(14 Nov) ComStar’s bid to upgrade HPG stations is rejected by Exarch
Redburn in favor of a bid by Stryker Productions Ltd

Interesting.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

It just kinda chaps my hide when you think about how well-preserved information on historical battles like the Alamo or anything from the US Civil War are in some of the novels yet apparently nobody thought to preserve a Lewis & Short or Wheelock. ::)

It's not totally implausible for Civil War battles being as well known 1000 years from now as battles like Cannae and Jaxartes are today.

But yeah I feel ya the BattleTech authors probably do let their personal freak flag fly a little too often with regards to Civil War history.  It couldn't be used in the same way to convey meaning to a reader who presumably shares an author's passion for military history about a conflict in the fiction, but I'd still like to see characters reference other fictional battles as analogues for their current tribulations.  "Ok, we're going to get into a line and then do just like General Snodgrass did on Gobbler's Knob in the Great Turkey Riots of 2483...

[TwinkieMonkieIIC]

Ok, we're going to get into a line and then do just like General Snodgrass did on Gobbler's Knob in the Great Turkey Riots of 2483...

Remember the Knob!

[glitterboy2098]

It's not totally implausible for Civil War battles being as well known 1000 years from now as battles like Cannae and Jaxartes are today.

But yeah I feel ya the BattleTech authors probably do let their personal freak flag fly a little too often with regards to Civil War history.  It couldn't be used in the same way to convey meaning to a reader who presumably shares an author's passion for military history about a conflict in the fiction, but I'd still like to see characters reference other fictional battles as analogues for their current tribulations.  "Ok, we're going to get into a line and then do just like General Snodgrass did on Gobbler's Knob in the Great Turkey Riots of 2483...

well, most of the references i've seen to it have been in books during civil wars in the setting.. the fedcom civil war where it got heavily used, and the grey death series ones related to the Skye Uprising. so you could argue that while the choice was meant to be thematic. though why the american civil war and not the myriad other ones before and since is probably a result of the books being written by americans for americans.. in general we aren't as familiar with civil wars that occurred in europe, asia, south america, or africa.. and using one of those or one from the BT universes fictional history would involve too much diversion from the main plot of the novels to explain.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

well, most of the references i've seen to it have been in books during civil wars in the setting.. the fedcom civil war where it got heavily used, and the grey death series ones related to the Skye Uprising. so you could argue that while the choice was meant to be thematic. though why the american civil war and not the myriad other ones before and since is probably a result of the books being written by americans for americans.. in general we aren't as familiar with civil wars that occurred in europe, asia, south america, or africa.. and using one of those or one from the BT universes fictional history would involve too much diversion from the main plot of the novels to explain.

I follow.  Plus the history the characters in the 31st century know is written primarily by the Star League and its successors, which in turn are successors of Space America.. and Space America can reasonably be expected to have biases that are relatable to most BT fandom.  It absolutely stands to reason that (US) Civil War battles could be better known in the 31st century than other (especially non Anglophone) conflicts of the 19th century.

[glitterboy2098]

still, it would be nice to see historical allusions to other conflicts in the fiction. we've had a few novels that were obviously meant as analogs for various real world conflicts (ideal war and Vietnam for example, or Dagger Point for UN style peacekeeping. but those didn't make the connection obvious via dialog, just through the general story elements.

[Colt Ward]

You mean you want something of a analogue of Chinese Gordon's exploits in the 1860s?

[glitterboy2098]

guess i could have made it clearer.. i'd prefer that if people name drop historical events, it be stuff other than WW2 and the american civil war.
my bit about those two books were pointing out that we'd had books with clear connections to other events, but they were thematic rather than dialog. sorry.

that said, i wouldn't mind fiction drawing on other conflicts as thematic elements either.

[Rorke]

It's not totally implausible for Civil War battles being as well known 1000 years from now as battles like Cannae and Jaxartes are today.

But yeah I feel ya the BattleTech authors probably do let their personal freak flag fly a little too often with regards to Civil War history.  It couldn't be used in the same way to convey meaning to a reader who presumably shares an author's passion for military history about a conflict in the fiction, but I'd still like to see characters reference other fictional battles as analogues for their current tribulations.  "Ok, we're going to get into a line and then do just like General Snodgrass did on Gobbler's Knob in the Great Turkey Riots of 2483...

This, sums up certain things so beautifully.  I'd not have managed to say something like that, without
being a degree more disparaging.

[Caturix]

The US Civil War is not that well known outside North America, you know.
We've had so many more important conflicts in the long history of the world as a whole, that catching on implicit allusion to this particular war in a sci-fi novel requires looking for it most of the time when you're not born on america soil.

As for my personal taste, I dislike explicit references to real life events in fictionnal universes set in a far future.
So fictionnal battles as references is good for me, especially since we've got a lot of them since the beginning of Battletech. Many of them having been detailed in sourcebooks, or novels.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

The US Civil War is not that well known outside North America, you know.
We've had so many more important conflicts in the long history of the world as a whole, that catching on implicit allusion to this particular war in a sci-fi novel requires looking for it most of the time when you're not born on america soil.

I agree that the US Civil War is over-represented.  But not necessarily because of the American-centrism in prioritizing it...  The BTU universe is shaped by American points-of-view, and not just by out-of-universe/meta reasons.  In-universe, the entire Inner Sphere ultimately harkens back to the Terran Alliance directly or indirectly.  And the Terran Alliance back to the Western Alliance, and the Western Alliance back to an American-led NATO.

But yeah again, I agree that the Civil War sees references all out of proportion to other centuries' conflicts.  As I said upthread I'd love to see "callbacks" to past battles that are still in our fictional future.

As for my personal taste, I dislike explicit references to real life events in fictionnal universes set in a far future.
So fictionnal battles as references is good for me, especially since we've got a lot of them since the beginning of Battletech. Many of them having been detailed in sourcebooks, or novels.

I don't mind it in principle, but yeah too many makes for undermining the suspension of disbelief.  One very minor mention that momentarily ruined my immersion in Shattered Fortress was a broadcast being available via streaming to the planetary denizens of Who-Cares-World.  Sigh.  Streaming *is* a broadcast.  Mentioning streaming only serves to date the book in real-world contexts.

[cypher226]

Given that most of the viewpoint characters in the novels I've read are military officers or personnel, it makes sense they would reference historic battles. There are good reasons why the battles of Hannibal, Caesar, Wellington and so on are studied, and it's unlikely the lessons will have been completely replaced 1000 years in the future. More diversity in references would be good - the Alamo wasn't the only doomed heroic stand for example, Thermopyle would make a perfectly acceptable alternative  ;)

[Colt Ward]

One reason the US Civil War gets cited is b/c its the point when firearms go from having blocks of troops standing shoulder to shoulder to having open file formation- to be blunt, while European military powers had observers on both sides afaik their recommendations and observations were not well heeded going into WWI.  IF they had been then perhaps the mass charges across open fields into machine guns and artillery might not have happened.  So yes, the US Civil War has import for being a war where the military paradigm changed during the war- both for the army & navy with accurate repeating/cartridge small arms and steam powered ships.

With that said . . . the paradigm in BTU is pretty much locked in.

Like I said earlier, I would love to see some cultural references . . . for instance, Roderick Steiner?  He should have been referring to Frederick the Great's era, cause with the German meta-culture of the Lyran state I would expect more German/Prussian military examples.  Sun-Tzu & Daoshen Liao's CCAF?  Xin Sheng baby, tell all the great stories of your Chinese meta-culture military.

[RotS fan]

DOUBLE EDIT:

Interesting.

I've noticed this too. This event being worth mention, the time span this event occurred, even the wording (striker, blackout...) is interesting.

[Colt Ward]

?  Blackout is not a new term?

[RotS fan]

?  Blackout is not a new term?

I'm talking about the name. You have a company named Stryker Productions Ltd responsible for upgrading HPG stations and a few years later there's a communication blackout.

Strike can mean "refuse to work as a form of organized protest, typically in an attempt to obtain a particular concession or concessions from their employer." and the meaning is closely related to blackout

[roosterboy]

Or... Stryker is a reference to a well-known Jihad-era ComStar agent and Stryker Productions Ltd is a ComStar-affiliated company in the 3100s.

[RotS fan]

Or... Stryker is a reference to a well-known Jihad-era ComStar agent and Stryker Productions Ltd is a ComStar-affiliated company in the 3100s.

Didn't know that. I could find information about the guy, but nothing about the company. Where can I find out more?

[abou]

Or... Stryker is a reference to a well-known Jihad-era ComStar agent and Stryker Productions Ltd is a ComStar-affiliated company in the 3100s.

That doesn't make much sense though. Why would a ComStar-affiliated company win the contract rather than just ComStar?

I thought ComStar retained control of the HPG network as the only entity that had the knowledge to maintain and run it -- even considering everything with the Jihad. So it is just weird that a mystery company shows up and wins a bid to upgrade the HPG network right before the Clarion Call is activated and shuts down all interstellar communication.

Granted there isn't a lot of info out there about what is happening during this time frame. So I have questions on just how widely the operational knowledge of HPGs, but maybe not how to construct them, is out there. Shattered Fortress implies that operating an HPG isn't difficult -- as long as you can find one that works. But patching the operating system...

Kind of bull though if the FedSuns were working on HPG tech for 500 years and then suddenly some mystery company can just waltz in and win a contract.

[roosterboy]

SPL is a Republic-based ComStar-affiliate, founded with early MMRP loans.

ComStar lost its monopoly after the Jihad, although being the only ones who knew how to rebuild the HPG network after the war still gave them some cachet. In the aftermath, they evolved into more of a corporate structure and had a number of local affiliates that actually operated the HPGs in some areas. Stryker was one of those and, for instance, operated the HPGs on Achernar, among other planets.

Here are some notes on ComStar compiled from various Dark Age sources...

• ComStar now more corporate; combine monasticism with business; still wear robes; no longer pray to machines; HPG compounds no longer closed to outsiders but open and function as community centers;
• forced to disband ROM after Jihad; Victor Steiner-Davion maintained contacts with many ex-ROM operatives; Stone stood up for ComStar when other nations wanted to dismantle it;
• second largest investor in interstellar markets, behind only Lyran Commonwealth; own significant percentage of shipping industry in every Successor State and most Periphery realms; substantial real estate holdings throughout Inner Sphere;
• HPG compounds now guarded by troops from host nation or approved mercenaries; ComStar personnel limited to security guards only; sign of trust and synergy with nations of Inner Sphere;
• ComStar affiliates with local corporations to run HPGs; Stryker Productions Ltd is one of those;
• INN major news network throughout Republic;
• price of HPG transmissions restricted by Republic for last 50 years;

[abou]

Okay, so the knowledge about HPGs has become widespread. That is interesting.

I am surprised that more chapters didn't focus on the details about the blackout. My point of reference here are the novels dealing with the FedCom and the slow burn of information surrounding the assassination of Melissa Steiner-Davion. It seemed that every spine novel had a few chapters dealing with the various characters working on exposing Katherine.

[roosterboy]

Yeah, that’s because the Dark Age line lacked a real spine like the older novels had. Towards the end of the line there were efforts made but by then it was too little, too late.

Also, I really didn’t get the impression that WizKids cared all that much about explaining the mysteries of the Blackout, preferring to leave them as background rather than active story elements.

[Colt Ward]

yeah it was a sort of . . . "We're too busy trying to keep civilization from falling apart to worry about why the phones do not work."  Never mind that one of the 3 Cs is Communication.

[Banzai]

  "Ok, we're going to get into a line and then do just like General Snodgrass did on Gobbler's Knob in the Great Turkey Riots of 2483...

"God as my witness, I thought turkeys could fly."

[abou]

Ben Rome is posting on his blog what were his original ideas for ilClan. This may be entirely apocryphal or may just be waiting to be revealed. I just found it interesting as it is coincides with my hypothesis that the black out was an inside job by a disaffected group within the RotS. I look forward to seeing whether this holds or what changes were made by the current team.

[Apr] Tucker Harwell, disillusioned and desperate, locates and thaws out Devlin Stone. Stone, enraged that Levin has not enacted the more martial aspects of Fortress Republic, begins studying the situation in the last reported information from the Successor States and planning their conquest; the failure of the Republic (and without Lear’s leavening influence) has convinced him that he must ‘do it all himself.’ Realizing who and what caused the Blackout, at some point after he awakens Stone uses a force of Knights and RAF to wipe out the Guardians.

It may be some stuff got flipped around. The Guardians were replaced with ComStar and the true nemesis is still unknown.

https://benhrome.com/2018/08/21/clan-of-the-il-year-3145/

[abou]

On 10/25, Ben Rome posted a supplemental on how the Fortress worked. This is obviously not going to be what CGL does, but there were some interesting things in there: https://benhrome.com/2018/10/25/clan-of-the-il-supplemental-note-on-the-wall/

But for me, the keys lines were this:

“The Fortress Wall.” One of the most difficult things left from a prior license holder that needed explained, because it was never explained. Nor was it ever plausibly accounted for. Somehow, the Republic of the Sphere’s magic “Fortress Wall” sprang into being and my team and I had to figure out how it all worked within the confines of the universe’s physics and world rules.

...

All of this helps explain what we’ve already written so nicely that I shudder to think what WizKids actually planned to happen (if anything at all)….

Well... don't that just beat all.