Aurigan Reach- now that the game is out

[Colt Ward]

Now that HBS interpretation of battletech is out and has been played for . . . 3 weeks?  Some folks have completed the campaign while going on to sandbox, others are still working through it, and some people have barely started it since they went sandbox instead.  We now know the the campaign storyline about a succession crisis in a struggling periphery state with references to the Great Houses and periphery powers (is a start date included?  I must have missed it), the Leopard and Argos have been put into action (Argos does not land nor does it jump- both at the same time were early fears), and for funsies the campaign includes the 3025 classic- a Star League cache! (have not gotten that far)

So, how do people feel about the campaign fitting into the canon timeline/events?

ditto Argo?

[Dulahan]

I, for one, look forward to it.  I really like the Reach!

House Arano's flag is amazing too.  A shame that wasn't a backer option!

But in general, I look forward to it sneaking its way into the lore.  I imagine it'll probably be something as innocuous as an offhanded mention of the Reach in a sourcebook somewhere.  "Blahblah McBlabberblah, a Mechwarrior from the Aurigan Reach led the assault on Chatterbox Fort" or something.  But that's how it begins!  Or maybe a new map in the new boxed sets?

[Nicoli]

All is fine except the Argo, it violates a couple of key rules that can't be brought into canon with out causing some severe issues.

[Giovanni Blasini]

If I were to bring the Argo into canon, I would do it one of three ways: either a 100-kiloton transportable space station, ignoring the transit drive it has; dump the grav deck and keep it a DropShip; or make it a JumpShip itself, possibly as a compact core exploration "WarShip". Either of the first two options, I would dump it carrying DropShips piggybacked through a jump.

[Colt Ward]

Well, the Argo as stated is fixable for that situation- for instance making it a primitive dropshuttle bay was one other solution I heard someone mention.  Sure it stretches things but you make it a unique design just like the Ancestral Home was for the Coyotes.  Its overall facilities and inability to land on a planet near normal gravity is not a stretch considering the recent release of things like the Lee and Colossus- the Argo was just designed for more independent operations w/o the typical SL fleet train.

[pheonixstorm]

I think of it more like the Monitor. Just with an added KF boom and open exposed dry dock.

[Colt Ward]

Anyway, I am not really wanting to derail into a rules discussion of the Argo's game mechanics- either TPTB will accommodate or hand-waive 'bad' intel explaining reports of what it can do.  Its functions and fluff as a experimental ship that was being tested in the periphery and was abandoned as non-functional, like the Spruce Goose.

Or the fluff about how the Reach was formed with those who fled the Great Houses from what sounded like the fall of the Star League.

[The_Livewire]

I just need a computer strong enough to play it.  :'(

[Phobos101]

Historical: Aurigan Civil war now? Apart from the insane number of rare (and very big) mechs that pop up in the game, I reckon there's enough space in the periphery (especially when you consider the third dimension) to wedge this little kingdom in without stepping on any toes...

Also, I don't really see what's so game breaking about the Argo. can someone fill me in?

[Nav_Alpha]

Considering most of the systems in the game end up depopulated post 3025, it’s not a massive clash with canon I’d say. Most will get just hand waved as “not important enough to talk about at this time”.
 
The Aurigan Coalition is pretty much setting itself up to be gobbled up a couple
Years after the game - heavily in debt to Taurus, basically a puppet of the MoC. I expect those two states would just tear at the corpse, leaving a bunch of depopulated worlds by 3030ish.

So, I’ve been intrigued by the timeline. I kinda pegged it as about 3020ish - the only new equipment in it is the Cataphract, which debuts in 3025.

[Nicoli]

Historical: Aurigan Civil war now? Apart from the insane number of rare (and very big) mechs that pop up in the game, I reckon there's enough space in the periphery (especially when you consider the third dimension) to wedge this little kingdom in without stepping on any toes...

Also, I don't really see what's so game breaking about the Argo. can someone fill me in?

the Argo is a dropship with dropship collars. If that is brought in then any jump ship could theoretically jump a much larger number of dropships then currently allowed possibly an unlimited amount.

[Luciora]

Yo dawg, I heard you like dropships.  So we put dropships on your dropship.

the Argo is a dropship with dropship collars. If that is brought in then any jump ship could theoretically jump a much larger number of dropships then currently allowed possibly an unlimited amount.

[Retry]

All is fine except the Argo, it violates a couple of key rules that can't be brought into canon with out causing some severe issues.

Well, it's illegal by construction rules, but there's quite a few canonical vehicles that are illegal by the construction rules that are nonetheless canon.

Scorpion LAM (No quad LAMs)
Champion LAM (No 60+ ton LAMs)
Seabass (Some silly flying sub thing)
Matar (105+ ton 'mech using standard 'mech rules)
None of these made it to production but most of these were tested and some even worked (partially)

Most of XTRO:Boondoggles probably qualifies, actually.

So if your point is that the Argo can't be canonized because it violates some construction rules, well, that's not true by example.

[Garrand]

If the PTB decide to bring in the Argo to canonicity, I would assume there would be rules governing such insanity as unlimited dropship capacity. FREX, a jumpship cannot jump with a dropship with docking collars that is ALSO carrying a drop ship with full docking collars (mass outside the jump envelope or somesuch...). Alternatively, you can do it, but make your roll & hope you roll well, buddy...

Damon.

[Kovax]

I don't see the dropship docking collar issue being a serious conflict as long as the Argo doesn't JUMP with the dropship still attached.  It can operate in-system with the dropship attached (as a semi-mobile space station and jump-point-to-orbit non-landing shuttle), but the Argo and Leopard/other would technically need to use separate collars on the jumpship.  It's got some utility as a space station, at least more than as a dropship, but probably not a high enough value:cost ratio for the design to be put into production.

[Nicoli]

I don't see the dropship docking collar issue being a serious conflict as long as the Argo doesn't JUMP with the dropship still attached.  It can operate in-system with the dropship attached (as a semi-mobile space station and jump-point-to-orbit non-landing shuttle), but the Argo and Leopard/other would technically need to use separate collars on the jumpship.  It's got some utility as a space station, at least more than as a dropship, but probably not a high enough value:cost ratio for the design to be put into production.

In the game you jump with it attached

[omega2010]

The search for the Star League cache mentions something interesting.  In order to decrypt the map, Kamea gets a decoding device that was found with a dead Comstar Precentor.  Naturally, no one knows why this Precentor was in the area and everyone just decides to leave it a mystery.  I'm going to guess the Precentor was looking for the base and possibly blow it up  ::).

[Colt Ward]

I have not gotten to that point in the campaign . . . sounds like a adventure hook for future DLC/Xpac.  I just think its interesting that in their first campaign the PC ends up bumping up against ComStar and a LosTech hunt.

[omega2010]

I have not gotten to that point in the campaign . . . sounds like a adventure hook for future DLC/Xpac.  I just think its interesting that in their first campaign the PC ends up bumping up against ComStar and a LosTech hunt.

There are only a few references to Comstar within the entire story (something I didn't mind since I'm a little burned out on Comstar/WoB plots).  So it was just interesting that we get this little plot hook about the dead Precentor and naturally everyone is too busy dealing with the war to dwell on it.

The SLDF Outpost Castle (yep, they correctly went with that name rather than Castle Brian) opens up more intriguing plot hooks.

[Nicoli]

Well, it's illegal by construction rules, but there's quite a few canonical vehicles that are illegal by the construction rules that are nonetheless canon.

Scorpion LAM (No quad LAMs)
Champion LAM (No 60+ ton LAMs)
Seabass (Some silly flying sub thing)
Matar (105+ ton 'mech using standard 'mech rules)
None of these made it to production but most of these were tested and some even worked (partially)

Most of XTRO:Boondoggles probably qualifies, actually.

So if your point is that the Argo can't be canonized because it violates some construction rules, well, that's not true by example.

There is illegal, and there is break the universe illegal. The Argo breaks the rules in a way that don't just make a quirky new unit. It fundamentally changes how travel works in BT universe. I'd have been fine if it was a drop ship that grab wheels, but a drop ship that takes 2 collar slots and has 2 drop ship collar slots that can be used while jumping is a bit much.

[Jones]

Frankly, the game can't be canonized fast enough for me. I love the idea of the early 31st Century Periphery being the IS in microcosm. It opens up so much more playspace for folks who may not have considered it on their own. The whole Aurigan Reach and other smaller star nations reminds me of the Chaos March, my favorite balkanized region of space in BattleTech. More canon areas where smaller player-ran groups can make huge differences is a benefit to the game as a whole.

And the Argo is cool. So one LosTech prototype ship violates an arguably stupid, arbitrary design rule? I have more problems with the magic field in Steiner Stadium and the remarkable energy efficiency of a DropShip's transit drive than a single daisy-chaining tin can.

[Horseman]

If the PTB decide to bring in the Argo to canonicity, I would assume there would be rules governing such insanity as unlimited dropship capacity. FREX, a jumpship cannot jump with a dropship with docking collars that is ALSO carrying a drop ship with full docking collars (mass outside the jump envelope or somesuch...). Alternatively, you can do it, but make your roll & hope you roll well, buddy...
Damon.

Or the docking collars are limited to very low-mass dropships, think 1800 - exact for the upgraded Leopard variant that eventually appears.

[idea weenie]

If I were to bring the Argo into canon, I would do it one of three ways: either a 100-kiloton transportable space station, ignoring the transit drive it has; dump the grav deck and keep it a DropShip; or make it a JumpShip itself, possibly as a compact core exploration "WarShip". Either of the first two options, I would dump it carrying DropShips piggybacked through a jump.

This one looks interesting.  Part of the Argo is the Jumpship core that stays at the Jump zone, charging up, and the rest of the mass is the Warship component that can transit at 1+ Gs.

So assuming you have a total of 100 ktons mass, it would break down as:
45,250 tons - KF core itself (compact KF core mass is 45.25% of whole vessel mass)
~48 ktons - Mass of Jumpship component (KF core mass divided by .95)
~52 ktons - Mass of Argo, including linking systems so the KF core carries the Argo by default.

The obvious problem is that the KF component can only link with the specific mass Warship component, making it strategically inflexible compared to the Jumpship/Dropship combo where any Dropship can attach to any Jumpship.  The Argo could have been a Star League prototype to test the practicality of Warships not having to carry their KF core with them when they went in-system and giving them ~twice the acceleration.  The strategic need to rendezvous back with the proper sized KF core component meant that a sneaky defender could blow up the KF parts, and strand the Warships in-system.  So nice idea, but not practical.

[aidan_kell]

If I were to bring the Argo into canon, I would do it one of three ways: either a 100-kiloton transportable space station, ignoring the transit drive it has; dump the grav deck and keep it a DropShip; or make it a JumpShip itself, possibly as a compact core exploration "WarShip". Either of the first two options, I would dump it carrying DropShips piggybacked through a jump.

I like the idea of a compact-core civilian "warship". My mind's eye can even retcon ingame footage of it attached to an Invader as the Argo itself jumping.

[Nav_Alpha]

Frankly, the game can't be canonized fast enough for me. I love the idea of the early 31st Century Periphery being the IS in microcosm. It opens up so much more playspace for folks who may not have considered it on their own. The whole Aurigan Reach and other smaller star nations reminds me of the Chaos March, my favorite balkanized region of space in BattleTech. More canon areas where smaller player-ran groups can make huge differences is a benefit to the game as a whole.

And the Argo is cool. So one LosTech prototype ship violates an arguably stupid, arbitrary design rule? I have more problems with the magic field in Steiner Stadium and the remarkable energy efficiency of a DropShip's transit drive than a single daisy-chaining tin can.

I wish this forum had a Like button.
I agree with all this so, so much.

[Colt Ward]

Well, if you feel that way you might point out to other mods that this topic is talking about the fluff and impact of making that game canon- why it started in general discussion.  But got busybody'd to the game forum.

[Tyler Jorgensson]

So we have to two factions: do we have full sized pictures of their insignias/flags floating around?

[Nav_Alpha]

So we have to two factions: do we have full sized pictures of their insignias/flags floating around?

See my new sig...

[Tyler Jorgensson]

Well played...

[kato]

If I were to bring the Argo into canon, I would do it one of three ways: either a 100-kiloton transportable space station, ignoring the transit drive it has; dump the grav deck and keep it a DropShip; or make it a JumpShip itself, possibly as a compact core exploration "WarShip". Either of the first two options, I would dump it carrying DropShips piggybacked through a jump.

Another option would be to make it a monitor - automatically making it a boondoggle. Perhaps picking up AMHITRITE again and purpose-building a design that sought to replace the yardship transport limitation by making large-dropship-sized monitors able to dock with standard jumpships.

Limit the load on the carrier jumpship to 100kt including any subcraft (which would be limited to two hardpoints, while the monitor with an automatic "Large Dropship" quirk would require two collars itself on the jumpship), further nerf it through the "required structural reinforcement" that can be about any size required to make it unviable, possibly handwave some impossibility to carry capital weapons into it.