Warship Race Redux

[truetanker]

Amen brother.

MH has the same, no money so I had to conquer to justify the costs. And well, who don't like money?

TT

[UnLimiTeD]

Man, Tyler, you have some of the richest worlds in the sphere. Just look at your budget compared to your planets.

[Tyler Jorgensson]

Man, Tyler, you have some of the richest worlds in the sphere. Just look at your budget compared to your planets.

I mean.... that’s in thanks to the GM’s

[UnLimiTeD]

Why, yes, of course, we have our almighty overlords to thank for everything. Blessed be their names.

[Jester Motley]

See with a Successor State. I would have invested in tech every turn all three if possible. I would have tried to make a decent jack-of-all trades fleet, and upgrade at least half every turn with better tech.

With the PoR i have to choose carefully techs and design ships that would last several turns with minimal upgrades because I simply dont have the money

I tried, very hard, to invest in 3 techs a turn, and still make a decent fleet.  And failed.  I had to peel back research some in order to get that fleet.

[Smegish]

So, as many of you can certainly tell so fighting is going to happen this turn, especially out in the Periphery. Some of you will be in a position to intervene one way or the other if you see fit. What I would like from each of you - in DM's, not here - is some info about:

1a) If two periphery neighbours are fighting, do you intervene or stay out of it?
1b) If you do intervene, do you jump in as soon as you hear that it's going down, or wait for things to develop?
1c) Do you help a specific faction? Do you simply help the side that is winning/losing? Or do you jump on both of them while they're distracted?

This questions are of course assuming you aren't already in a fight with someone else.

I'm not after specifics of what ships you send and exactly what systems you hit, that stuff can stay with your Fleet Doctrines/Deployments. Just a general outline will do.

For example: It looks like the Marians and Illyrians are about to go at it. Does the Free Worlds League sit back and enjoy the fireworks, or do they beat one or both of them like a red-headed step child?  ;D

[UnLimiTeD]

Man, and here I thought I've been doing that for the past 50 years.
Well, I suppose my coordinator is overdue to break his neck, or be deposed.

I actually kind of assumed there'd be a week extra delay or so to stave off GM burnout, but it seems you guys have a plan.

[Lagrange]

I'll give more details when the CC turn is ready (... it's long...), but the immediate reaction will be asking the TC if they are interested in any further purchases.  On sale will be Yi Bai and possibly a few Pallada.  Alternatively, it's possible that a case of mistaken identity could touch off a larger war...

[UnLimiTeD]

Ah, the CC, the spheres favourite arms dealer.

[Lagrange]

I'm trying finish the CC turn want to confirm what is sold where.  I believe the following is correct:

2 Pallada IIs to the Draconis Combine for 5B
3 Pallada IIs to the UHC for 8B
25 Yi Bai to the MH for 2.125B
20 Yi Bai to the PoR for 2B (welcome to add a license).
30 Yi Bai to the IP for 3B and a license.

Deliveries of the Yi Bai should begin in lots of 5 about a quarter later and be completed after about 1.5 years.  The delivery plan (for reference) is to use a 2 Zencha, 2 jumpships from the reserve loaded with 3 medium-size dropships carrying fuel, and 1-2 Sailor's Mercy per customer.  The Zencha will scout out a route through deep space, which will later be used to lay down highway stations.  The rest will follow along.  The Sailor's Mercy will disgorge their Yi Bai from beyond detection range and begin returning with the jumpship reserve.  Yi Bai skeleton crews and one reserve jumpship will thrust for a 0/0 intercept with primary.  The reserve jumpship will jump back with the skeleton crews.

[Smegish]

Sales look right to me

[Tyler Jorgensson]

My turn's taking a bit longer than normal: trying to fiddle with a design and its not coming out to what i want so i keep going back to fix it: I'm on iteration X and still no closer

[Tyler Jorgensson]

Lagrange: I do not get your placement of Naval Grade Weaponry in the Aft Side Arcs. The Lie Ren, a 1.25 kiloton vessel has only the aft side arcs with capital weapons. Even describing the maneuvers it seems like such an odd idea and concept I wonder how it would even work.

Now this is not criticism but just confusion (mass confusion) so please educate me on how this bizarre strategy is even considered.

[Lagrange]

Lagrange: I do not get your placement of Naval Grade Weaponry in the Aft Side Arcs. The Lie Ren, a 1.25 kiloton vessel has only the aft side arcs with capital weapons. Even describing the maneuvers it seems like such an odd idea and concept I wonder how it would even work.

Now this is not criticism but just confusion (mass confusion) so please educate me on how this bizarre strategy is even considered.

The aft-side arcs overlap with almost the entire broad-side arc, so anything that you can do with a broad-side can be done with an aft-side.  In addition, the pair of aft-side arcs (together), cover almost the entire aft arc, so you can thrust 175 degrees away from an opponent and keep shooting at them.   In contrast, a 4-corner design loses half of it's firepower when thrusting away from an opponent.

[UnLimiTeD]

Given we already have fluid and continuous space, maybe we should just use actual 90° angles on most things. It is a rather strange academia.
Not that I personally mind, but it's rather hard to bring the point across.

[Lagrange]

The CC turn is mostly up now.  Lots of fun with light naval gauss...

Given we already have fluid and continuous space, maybe we should just use actual 90° angles on most things. It is a rather strange academia.
Not that I personally mind, but it's rather hard to bring the point across.

It doesn't matter much if you are squirreling around at 50+ hexes away since the further you are away the more exact aft-side = aft + broad-side becomes.

Edit: I wanted to add that I finally found a way to represent the highway system in a map in a readable fashion... and it turns out to be with a hex triangulation, interestingly enough.

[UnLimiTeD]

Well, I just think it's weird that most canon ships have heavy broadside armaments, yet that arc is rather tiny - a result of playing on hex fields.
If we made the side arcs just a 90° quarter, shifted the smallest possible unit towards the sides, and made the 4 cardinal directions also 90° angles, ships would have easy to understand firing arcs.

I probably should start working on my turn, though. Besides tech progression and buying those two troop carriers from the CC, I don't really have much planned.
It was, at first, my impression that the GMs are getting worn out a little.  ;)

[kindalas]

It was, at first, my impression that the GMs are getting worn out a little.  ;)

This is why I'm taking my time planning my turn.

[Smegish]

No rush with your turns for now. Marcus is still finding his inspiration again. I found mine for now so am trying to write stuff while it's there.

Good thing about a war between 2 NPCs: I don't have to wait for player turns to get stuck into it.

[Tyler Jorgensson]

Okay.... just an interesting take. Still confused but thankfully I won’t have to test it against my fleet ever lol.

I’m just trying to design a 500K Cruiser with some bigger guns and some DS/Fighter support. Everything I do it just seems not to be good for the design or for my fleet: raise the speed, lower the speed. Increase armor and SI, lower fuel, big Heavy Naval Gauss and Heavy Naval PPC’s or just NL45’s for days. Heavy AA Guns, or a separate ship entirely for PD work. Just bouncing around ideas for days like a ship lost in a storm.

Idk

Anyways....... long story short can anyone recommend some good upgrades for my Hund-II design to give it more teeth. Advice, maybe a variant like a big single Naval Gauss Carrier or something.

[Smegish]

The major issue holding back the Hund is size. You can only fit so much in a 250kt ship, without stripping the engine.

May need to either purchase more Vittorias or upgrade your yard so you can refit those Lolas.

[kindalas]

Anyways....... long story short can anyone recommend some good upgrades for my Hund-II design to give it more teeth. Advice, maybe a variant like a big single Naval Gauss Carrier or something.

Naval Lasers are your friend.

They have good range and AA mode for a small bonus to hit fighters.

None of us are close to bracketing fire yet.

The 4/6 speed is above average so most vessels won't control the engagement distances but you want to keep out of NAC range of the slow ships.

Or you can go all NAC, possibly the 35s or 40s and just have a doctrine of brief close combat where you try to overwhelm ships at close range with your big guns.

Against my ships, either tactic would work but only half the time.

Just don't try to do both tactics because you end up doing things badly.

It's why I designed a NPPC and a NAC version of the Mjolnier so that they could work together and employ both tactics in combat.

You could try something similar with the Hund, just be willing to send your ships in as a team.

[Lagrange]

For the Hund-II, I'd suggest upgrading NL-45s to (possibly fewer) NL-55s.  The extra 4 range is nice and the damage/ton is similar.

I'd also remove the NLs from the broadside arcs.  You can place them in the fore-side arcs where they will cover most of the broadside arcs and half the nose arc so they complement the heavy nose.

You could substantially upgrade your antimissile defenses in Broadside and Aft arcs, although whether that's desirable depends on opponent designs.

I prefer the NAC/20 to the NAC/30 for bulk damage.   Modestly smaller damage/ton is made up for with significantly greater range. 

The more general issue with the Hund is what Smegish points out---lack of mass makes it inherently a lightweight, which is not particularly compatible with close combat against big ships.  Since you invested in Naval Gauss, it's tempting to leverage that with a range-based build that is a scale-down of the Lie Ren using LNG & NL55s.   That's the best way I know for a little ship to do damage beyond it's weight class before it is destroyed.   A small NCSS provides an initiative bonus which helps.

[UnLimiTeD]

For a refit, what Lagrange said.
condense the 3 NL45s in the broadsides and fore-quarters into 4 NL55s in the fore-quarters. Replacing the NAC/30s with 20s is a style question - not everything needs to be optimal - but it could give you a slight edge in range for 500 tons.
Then you can fill the broadside with a few more large lasers, and sprinkle more machine guns around. You can probably drop 20% fuel for a defensive design with no ill effects.
Personally, I also strive to mount my small weapons in multiples of 6, which has too little gains to be anything but another style question.

For a variant: Reduce it's weight by 10k tons. Maybe a slight increase in SI. Remove the nose lasers to upgrade the PPCs to heavies. If spare weight can be found, add more lasers to the quarters or an NACs to the nose. Reduce barracuda ammo somewhat - in an actual fleet battle, the ship doesn't last long enough to fire all its ammo from forward-mounted weaponry. Go to your fire control limit where possible, filling with extra machine guns. In case there's no capital weapons in the arc, as in the aft and broadside arcs, feel free to double up - any more probably starts to bite into your available space due to crew quarters.

Oh, and get some extra life boats. I personally go with 1 / officer, but whatever floats your boat (heh).

No rush with your turns for now. Marcus is still finding his inspiration again. I found mine for now so am trying to write stuff while it's there.

Were you two responsible for different ends of the universe or something?
And can we help the search in any way?
Also, a question of fluff: Are we influential on the developments in our nation, who lives/dies/gets constipated, or is that firmly in the realm of the GM?

[truetanker]

Having an issue, my feline overlord used my keyboard as a personal springboard earlier last week, so I'm unable to type... not doing technicals from a cellphone! It's really hard... I've tried.

TT

[Tyler Jorgensson]

Thanks for the help guys: I’ll work on some stuff hopefully the next two days and should have it done by Friday (depression and work aside). I’ll consider all the advice, except maybe Unlimited: his advice could be leaked information on behalf of the DCMS Intelligence Division to destroy my fleet from bad technical information ;)

No but seriously thanks.

[UnLimiTeD]

I’ll consider all the advice, except maybe Unlimited: his advice could be leaked information on behalf of the DCMS Intelligence Division to destroy my fleet from bad technical information ;)

Comrade, I am offended. I have no ulterior motives. I want the best possible hardware when I take over.  8)

[Tyler Jorgensson]

Comrade, I am offended. I have no ulterior motives. I want the best possible hardware when I take over.  8)

 ;D

[Tyler Jorgensson]

Another question: for PDS and AA roles are Small Lasers actually better or worse than MG's?

[Lagrange]

Another question: for PDS and AA roles are Small Lasers actually better or worse than MG's?

There isn't an easy answer here. 

Small Lasers are more effective on a per-count basis.  However, small lasers are less effective on a per-tonnage basis if you allocate them heat sinks and they are more expensive.  However, you may not allocate heat sinks to all of them, the tonnage of the people gunning the point defense is significant while the cost is typically insignificant in comparison to the cost of a warship.