BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat
Catalyst Game Labs => BattleTech Game Errata => Topic started by: Xotl on 06 March 2023, 02:05:29
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This thread is for all error reports and suggestions for the MUL online database, as found at:
http://www.masterunitlist.info/
Some notes - read before posting:
- How do I log in to the MUL? You can't. The login is only for site administrators.
- As this covers suggestions as well as errors, some discussion is allowed in this thread. However, we want to limit it to between the people giving feedback and the MUL team responding to them, not general discussion among fans. Please make your own feedback, not reply to others.
- Virtually all units now have Dark Age availability except the Homeworld Clans, some units we know little about, and "fate unknown" units like the Black Widow mechs from Wolf and Blake. Note that a RAT review is currently in progress.
- Corrections not touching on the above are welcome. However, please provide a page number and/or direct quote to support your case. "Faction X should have this because I said so" is less than helpful and will likely be ignored.
- If you have corrections for a unit entry, include a direct MUL link to the unit in question in your report.
- If it's a BV or Alpha Strike stat correction, please enclose or attach your entire calculation and how you made it (by hand, SSW, MML, etc; include version number of any software used).
- Project announcements have been split off into a separate thread, found here:
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/errata/master-unit-list-mul-announcement-thread/
Please keep your posts concise and polite. Posts that do not follow these rules will be deleted. Thank you.
WHAT IS THE MUL?
- The Master Unit List is a free product that contains the latest Battle Values, Alpha Strike stats, faction availabilities, and introduction dates for as many units in BattleTech as we can manage.
- The MUL is official and fully canonical. At the same time, it's a living document, continually being updated to best reflect all available sources.
- If a unit appears on the MUL, then it exists. This does not mean that said unit will ever see its stats published.
- That something is not on the MUL does not mean it doesn't exist. Not every factory, vehicle, and handgun in the universe has been documented, nor will they ever be. The MUL is what we know to date: what has been documented in canon.
- Unlike the MUL, Sarna.net is not a canon source. If Sarna lists a unit and the MUL doesn't, then the MUL is most likely correct (though we certainly do make mistakes, which this thread is here to collect and correct). The MUL has access to internal information that Sarna does not.
Previous Threads:
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/errata/master-unit-list-mul-feedback-thread-iii-read-the-first-post/
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/errata/master-unit-list-(mul)-feedback-thread-ii-read-the-first-post/
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Just cause it’s the newest RAT
The Corax (both Omni and standard C variant) as well as the Wusun appear multiple times on the RasDom aerospace RATs in DD. Any chance of them getting added
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Buraq Battle Armor mix up
I was looking at Buraq BA today, and noticed something.
4 man squad lists as 18 points, damage of 2/0/0, and A/S of 1/2
5 man squad lists as 16 points, Damage of 1/0/0, and A/S of 1/2
I feel like these are backwards.
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Units:
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3210/thumper-artillery-vehicle
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3212/thumper-artillery-vehicle-tav-1
To Do: swap their BV cost (source: Record Sheets: 3075 Unabridged - The Cutting Edge)
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Is there a reason the Wusun was not given to the RasDom in the ilClan era? It’s ~20% of all rolls
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because we considered the Corax and not the Wusun yet. stay tuned
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Will we see the Ares Apollo added to MUL? It was released before the last few Rec Guides but hasn't shown up yet.
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Will we see the Ares Apollo added to MUL? It was released before the last few Rec Guides but hasn't shown up yet.
Ah, that slipped through. Expect to see it added today.
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Would it be possible to add a filter that brings up just the units in a particular CGL miniatures Lance or Star Pack?
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While it would be a fair amount of work, a Box Set/ForcePack category would be nice. Rather convenient for me as well, if only because I already steer newbies to the MUL as is. The one downside I see is that if it does in fact work like existing TRO/RS categories, the system won't work with models that exist in multiple boxes.
Honestly, even if it's hidden having an "Other TROs" category or the ability to define multiple TRO/RS sources for single models would be great, but I know that in itself would be a lot of work and risks breaking things.
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Honestly, even if it's hidden having an "Other TROs"
while this is something that would be useful, it's not in our structural capabilities
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On a more immediately-resolvable note, the Raptor II RPT-2X and RPT-2X1 both point to TRO: Jihad. TRO: Jihad (rather bafflingly) only covers the Republic-era RPT-3X. The 2X and 2X1 should still point to JS:BD.
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There is an entry in the MUL for Star Dagger (Unknown) based on the reference in TRO 3039. Since then, an actual TRO spread and Record Sheet for the Star Dagger S-2 was produced in XTRO Retrotech, for which there is a separate entry in the MUL. I reckon that the Star Dagger (Unknown) entry is now obsolete.
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Re: Sartris' latest post in the announcement thread:
So... who DOES have access to the Hastati V infantry? ???
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On a more immediately-resolvable note, the Raptor II RPT-2X and RPT-2X1 both point to TRO: Jihad. TRO: Jihad (rather bafflingly) only covers the Republic-era RPT-3X. The 2X and 2X1 should still point to JS:BD.
TRO: Jihad does have blurbs on both the RPT-2X and 2X1 as well; for the sake of concentrating sources, we've chosen to leave things as-is.
Re: Sartris' latest post in the announcement thread:
So... who DOES have access to the Hastati V infantry? ???
Every faction that uses the standard IS infantry platoon formation. Normally, this should be every faction that the MUL currently lists for them. If you believe you've spotted an omission/error, please let us know.
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Ah, they're a RotS formation despite their Roman name.
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The RotS uses a lot of Latin in their nomenclature
The specific unit names aren’t really considered for distributions. If their gear and organization are generic, we assume there are other factions that use the same setup to keep availability from being super limited
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That makes sense, thank you for the explanation! :thumbsup:
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Battle Cobra BTL-C-2OJ
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/9495/battle-cobra-btl-c-2oj
It has:
Date Introduced: 3144
Era: Early Republic (3081 - 3100)
I believe Era is incorrect taking into account the Faction Availability starts in Dark Age.
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There is an entry in the MUL for Star Dagger (Unknown) based on the reference in TRO 3039. Since then, an actual TRO spread and Record Sheet for the Star Dagger S-2 was produced in XTRO Retrotech, for which there is a separate entry in the MUL. I reckon that the Star Dagger (Unknown) entry is now obsolete.
Adjusted.
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Rules Levels of both Hybrid Rifleman RFL-3N (Sneede) and Hybrid Rifleman RFL-3N (Sneede II) are listed as "Experimental" in MUL. In Record Sheets – Snord’s Irregulars pdf in the download's section it is "Introductory" Hybrid Rifleman RFL-3N (Sneede), and "Standard" for Hybrid Rifleman RFL-3N (Sneede II). Not sure which source is correct, but I suspect that it would be pdf unless just being "FrankenMechs" makes these Riflemans "Experimental" somehow despite not using any tech outside of Introductory and Dark Age Standard (as defined in TRO 3145) respectively.
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Rules Levels of both Hybrid Rifleman RFL-3N (Sneede) and Hybrid Rifleman RFL-3N (Sneede II) are listed as "Experimental" in MUL. In Record Sheets – Snord’s Irregulars pdf in the download's section it is "Introductory" Hybrid Rifleman RFL-3N (Sneede), and "Standard" for Hybrid Rifleman RFL-3N (Sneede II). Not sure which source is correct, but I suspect that it would be pdf unless just being "FrankenMechs" makes these Riflemans "Experimental" somehow despite not using any tech outside of Introductory and Dark Age Standard (as defined in TRO 3145) respectively.
The Downloadable Record Sheets will be updated in the future. Experimental is accurate.
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The Viper VP 7 shows as an IS Standard tech mech. In RG 32 the Viper VP 7 mounts Clan ER Mediums. Shouldn't this be Mixed Standard instead?
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yes, thanks. fixed
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The entry for the Mobile Long Tom LT-MOB-25 seems to instead point to the stats for the LT-MOD-25, while still pointing to RS:3039U for the record sheet. Should the name and record sheet source be changed accordingly?
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The Hellhound (Conjurer) doesn't have any faction availability before the clan invasion, despite being an early succession wars design.
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The Hellhound (Conjurer) doesn't have any faction availability before the clan invasion, despite being an early succession wars design.
Planned for the future are the completion of Early Succession War faction availability and a corresponding expansion of the Homeworld Clans.
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Question: Is it intended that the MAD-5B Marauder II be exclusive to Wolf's Dragoons while both the MAD-5A and MAD-5C also have Mercenary availability?
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Yes it is.
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I see it now, I should've read the Notables section in the Rec Guide. It does seem odd that a refit like this wouldn't be more wide-spread by the Clan Invasion, none of the equipment used is hard to come by in 3050 and it doesn't use an XL engine. I'd definitely understand the Dragoons keeping these in-house prior to 3050.
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I just wanted to say that I really appreciate the new changelog thread. Thanks for putting in the effort to put it together! :thumbsup:
As for the RAT review project, is the St Ives Compact on the to-do list? I remember a discussion a while back about some FedCom designs they should likely have access to based on FM:CC fluff and their RATs
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Hi Jason,
The MUL is following an internal policy regarding how it's approaching Random Assignment Tables. This means that not every unit from every RAT will be added to the MUL, though the intent is to eventually review all of them. That said, I believe the lore passages in FM:CC were addressed---if we seem to have missed any, please let us know.
With that in mind, St. Ives will have its first modern RAT since 2011 in the upcoming Historical: St. Ives War. This RAT will tightly align with the modern RAT-making approach and will fully line up with units available to St. Ives on the MUL.
Thank you!
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Is it intentional or an oversight that the MUL only lists the C-bill cost for battle armor units Sqd4 and not Sqd3, Sqd5, or Sqd6? I've been doing the arithmetic to scale from Sqd4, but it seems like this might be an accidental oversight.
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entering costs generally lags behind unit entry. they'll be added eventually but there is no TBA
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You did it. You absolute loons, you actually did it.
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A few things I noticed were missing from the Taurian DA availability list after the 3145 RAT review. I saw some things were excluded for being contradicted in other sources, and I will preface that I by no means have access to every source, so there may be stuff the supersedes the following.
Notable mechs:
Vulture MK IV (on the RAT twice and pretty sure Sea Fox sells this one to everyone, in the IlClan Sea Fox also has Brusett which is right next door)
Hound HD-2F (Filtvelt made, they do some trading with the Taurians, so maybe?)
ALB-3UR Albatross (FWL design, not sure how many they exported)
Grand Titan T-IT-11M (As above, figure they trade them to Canopus so maybe? But Canopus is a lot more proximal)
Vehicles:
Fortune (Standard) (No idea, have never even heard of this - looks to be Lyran and Marian)
Anyways, thanks for taking a look and doing all the RAT work. You folks have really been flying through them and we definitely appreciate it.
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*snip*
Not sure how I missed these. Adding---I appreciate the double check.
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No problem. Thank you for doing the massive job that is reviewing all the RATs and maintaining the MUL, I’m sure I would miss many more things than you folks do if I were in your shoes.
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I believe the battle value on the Master Unit list is wrong for Clan Heavy Jump Infantry. The MUL has them as 136, but according to my math they should be 291.
I've done the math with the tech manual and I've come up with 291bv for a point of 20 troopers.
Defensive Battle Rating: 20 troopers x 1.5 x 1.2 movement modifier: 20 x 1.5. x 1.2 = 36
Offensive Battle rating 16 x Mauser IIC 9.82 = 157.12
4 x Bear hunter AC 2.13 = 8.52
Double for anti-mech ability = 331.28 weapon battle rating
Weapon rating x speed factor (from chart) of 0.77. = 255 total offensive rating
Offensive + defensive rating 255 + 36 = 291
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thanks, we'll take a look
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I can't find me tion of it in the tech manual but I have seen other calculations that include infantry armor divisors in the BV calculations. If that is in fact required that would double the Clan Heavy Jump Infantry Devensive Battle rating to 72. This would then increase the total BV of the Point to 327.
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Unit
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1639/j-edgar-light-hover-tank-kurita
Issue : Wrong BV value: 740->696
Source : Recognition guide: ilclan . Vol 32 , MegaMekLab 0.49.8 (see attachment)
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Are the Kraken (Bane) 2 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1842/) and 3's (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1843/) availabilities correct? They both go from fairly exclusive during the Civil War and prior, to being universally available among the Clans and Society during the Jihad, then straight back to relative exclusivity from the Early Republic onward. Accidental copy/paste of the standard KrakBane's Jihad availabilities?
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jihad / wars of reaving were wild like that sometimes.
the jihad data in particular goes back to the MUL alpha drafts. it would be necessary to find some hard evidence restricting the kraken's availability during that time to peel back anything that old.
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What ended up happening with the Wusun for Ghost Bears in ilClan era?
It’s on the DD RAT multiple times and the dice math make it like 1/5 of all medium fighters.
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Following that, the Tyre 3 is on most of the mercenary RATs from 3145 to DD. Are various other elements being considered at a separate time or is there something we're overlooking?
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What ended up happening with the Wusun for Ghost Bears in ilClan era?
It’s on the DD RAT multiple times and the dice math make it like 1/5 of all medium fighters.
i'm working through TR/EA/DD currently
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Djinn Battle Armor (Reflective) “Terrorizer” [Laser] (Sqd6) is missing Era info for Early Republic (3081 - 3100)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/9080/djinn-battle-armor-reflective-terrorizer-laser-sqd6
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Djinn Battle Armor (Reflective) “Terrorizer” [MG] (Sqd6) is missing info for Era Early Republic (3081 - 3100)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/9078/djinn-battle-armor-reflective-terrorizer-mg-sqd6
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Djinn Battle Armor (Reflective) “Terrorizer” [MG] (Sqd6) is missing info for Era Early Republic (3081 - 3100)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/9078/djinn-battle-armor-reflective-terrorizer-mg-sqd6
This is actually correct.
It wasn't extinct yet, but only used by Pirates (using Sqd4 not Sqd6). So it's merely not available to anyone as a squad of 6 in the Early Republic era.
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To add, besides the small number of suits that the Blessed Order used in the late Republic/Dark Age, no BA should have Sqd6 visible availabilities post-3080.
The Sqd4/5/6 differentiations were added due to a large number of requests for non-standard squad sizes so the correct BV/PV was listed (eg a four-trooper Elemental squad). Squad sizes are given faction data only for squad sizes they use.
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I was looking at the DI Multipurpose Light VTOL, and both variants are listed at Rules Level: Standard. However, according to TRO: 3145 the platform has a chin turret, which is experimental under TacOps. I don't have access to TRO: 3150, and I'm not sure if I'm missing a reason why they might be at the standard rules level. I certainly won't cry if they are.
Link to the page: http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6596/di-multipurpose-light-vtol-gunship
Thanks!
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Off-hand, MUL rules level depends on the unit's introduction year. By the time the DI Multipurpose VTOL is introduced, chin turrets are treated as standard rules level items i believe.
Tech rules adjustment tables can be found in at least in TROPrototypes and Record Sheets 3145 Unabridged.
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I've noticed a couple type-os on the free PDFs from DriveThruRPG for the dropship and warship cards. Is this the best place to report those issues?
Dropships and Small Craft, Page 2, Achilles (all): Special ability says AF2D1. It should be AT2D1.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/363294/BattleTech-Alpha-Strike-Cards-DropShips-and-Small-Craft
Warships and Jumpships, Page 15, Hunter (all): THR: 2. It should be THR: 0.2
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/363293/BattleTech-Alpha-Strike-Cards-WarShips-and-JumpShips
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I have a few questions (and possible corrections) about the MUL. I realize that for 95% of ordinary play none of this matters but since tournament play (Southern Assault and the Adepticon BTCC, at least) ask for faction-list composition, it might be helpful to clear up:
The Mercenary faction list is a somewhat confusing/contradictory collection of units. Does this list indicate generic or widespread low-level mercenary availability? If so, should those units be cross-listed when pulling up the same era's House and high-profile mercenary units (because presumably they could afford or acquire them)? Cross-referencing the Mercenaries list with Kell Hounds, Wolf's Dragoons, and the House armies I've come up with some weird inconsistencies. Here's a handful of specific examples but I'm sure there are more:
1) Vindicator VND-1R is listed as available to Mercenaries from Late Succession Wars onward, but not Wolf's Dragoons. We know from Wolves on the Border (Ch. 7, p.64) that they had at least one that they loaned to Minobu Tetsuhara.
2) Kodiak is available to Mercenaries and Wolf's Dragoons starting in the Early Republic era, but not Kell Hounds or the Draconis Combine who could both presumably afford a Kodiak on an open mercenary market, and in the case of the Combine have also had regular conflict with the Ghost Bears and ample opportunity to acquire them.
3) Timber Wolf/Mad Cat is available by the Early Republic to Mercenaries, Wolf's Dragoons, Kell Hounds, many Clans, and even Comstar, but not to any of the House armies. I'm not as familiar with the post-FedCom Civil War lore as the earlier eras, but this seems peculiar, especially when by the Jihad all five houses have access to 14 of the original 16 omnis (and all of their A-D variants), except Timber Wolf/Mad Cat and Kit Fox/Uller.
4) Kit Fox/Uller is available in the Early Republic to Mercenaries, Wolf's Dragoons, and by the Late Republic to Comstar as well, but weirdly not Kell Hounds or any of the House armies. Similar to Kodiak, this seems inconsistent with what the Kell Hounds and Houses would logically be able to acquire.
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Alpha Strike PC for Gray Death Infiltrator Suit [Mines] (Sqd4) is higher then the PV for
Gray Death Infiltrator Suit [Mines] (Sqd5)
Gray Death Infiltrator Suit [Mines] (Sqd6)
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Hi, thanks for your questions.
I have a few questions (and possible corrections) about the MUL. I realize that for 95% of ordinary play none of this matters but since tournament play (Southern Assault and the Adepticon BTCC, at least) ask for faction-list composition
Just as a general note, we're not going to try to tell tournament organizers how to run their tournaments, but the MUL was not conceived with that in mind. We are showing prevalence above a relative threshold rather than a has/doesn't have binary. Indeed, if the latter were the case we'd be better served making list of units a faction doesn't have.
The Mercenary faction list is a somewhat confusing/contradictory collection of units.
It certainly is. Mercs come in all shapes and sizes so their access is going to be very broad. Most are not going to be able to afford a Mad Cat IV, but enough big ones can to make the list (that particular mech was also featured in TR3145 Mercs). Unfortunately, adding even the prominent outfits to the MUL would be dozens, at minimum.
1) Vindicator VND-1R is listed as available to Mercenaries from Late Succession Wars onward, but not Wolf's Dragoons. We know from Wolves on the Border (Ch. 7, p.64) that they had at least one that they loaned to Minobu Tetsuhara.
One instance is usually not enough to meet the threshold. If it can be shown they have several in a source, the availability can always be revisited.
2) Kodiak is available to Mercenaries and Wolf's Dragoons starting in the Early Republic era, but not Kell Hounds or the Draconis Combine who could both presumably afford a Kodiak on an open mercenary market, and in the case of the Combine have also had regular conflict with the Ghost Bears and ample opportunity to acquire them.
3) Timber Wolf/Mad Cat is available by the Early Republic to Mercenaries, Wolf's Dragoons, Kell Hounds, many Clans, and even Comstar, but not to any of the House armies. I'm not as familiar with the post-FedCom Civil War lore as the earlier eras, but this seems peculiar, especially when by the Jihad all five houses have access to 14 of the original 16 omnis (and all of their A-D variants), except Timber Wolf/Mad Cat and Kit Fox/Uller.
4) Kit Fox/Uller is available in the Early Republic to Mercenaries, Wolf's Dragoons, and by the Late Republic to Comstar as well, but weirdly not Kell Hounds or any of the House armies. Similar to Kodiak, this seems inconsistent with what the Kell Hounds and Houses would logically be able to acquire.
As was stated earlier in the thread, the Jihad lists are among the very oldest MUL assets. In the event notes are missing or the reasoning forgotten, we generally trust the decisions made at the time. It would require textual evidence to make any changes. Note that some of tools we have for determining this are not publicly available like internal documentation or developer intent. We try to stay away from logical supposition as much as possible because it rapidly turns into an ant farm of branching decisions.
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The new variants from the just released Record Sheet series (RS: 3145/3150/DarkAge/Jihad)
Are the factional availability’s correct? Or are they just semi-generic and awaiting further update/AS cards?
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...I'm not sure how to interpret that. The factions should be fine.
Are there any issues?
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...I'm not sure how to interpret that. The factions should be fine.
Are there any issues?
Not that I saw.
I guess a better way to ask that is, the faction assignments are correct even though they don’t have AS stat cards? For the new stuff.
(What you put is intended to be final)
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Yeah, absolutely. We wouldn't have given them live factions without them being reviewed beforehand. When you see factions on the MUL, it's because it's already been discussed internally and is basically good to go.
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Ok cool. Thanks
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Ope back to regularly scheduled stuff
Deimos H
Under era it’s Unknown. Should be early republic to match with intro date
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BattleMaster BLR-1Gc is listed as Standard rules level. It should be Advanced due to the Command Console.
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This was also true of the BLR-1Gbc. Both have been fixed.
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There definitely needs to be a blurb somewhere on the site about faction availability not being iron-clad, even outside the concept of salvage and minor inventory irregularities. Capellan Death Commandos being allowed any Inner Sphere mech and Tau Ceti Rangers being allowed Comstar mechs as per their own rules in FM:CC for example. I wouldn't expect you know, every possible units' lists, but just something saying that other sources my override the basic availability lists as they are presented here.
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Players are welcome to use whatever modifications to availability, published or otherwise, that they wish. The MUL has never been intended as a compilation of optional rules.
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There definitely needs to be a blurb somewhere on the site about faction availability not being iron-clad, even outside the concept of salvage and minor inventory irregularities. Capellan Death Commandos being allowed any Inner Sphere mech and Tau Ceti Rangers being allowed Comstar mechs as per their own rules in FM:CC for example. I wouldn't expect you know, every possible units' lists, but just something saying that other sources my override the basic availability lists as they are presented here.
How players use the MUL is up to them. If they want to use it as a guide and freely ignore it, they can. If they want to mix with other sources, they can. If they want to restrict to MUL only, they can. I'm not going to put such a blurb because I'm not telling players they have to use every sourcebook, any more than I'm going to tell players they must use the MUL. If your group, event, etc says use the MUL, the MUL turning around and saying "every sourcebook can overrule this" would defeat the point.
If you want that rule, and it's your group, game, or even, then you can put whatever restrictions, or no restrictions. If your group, game or event says "MUL only", no, we're not going to make a "rule" saying players can ignore it by referencing whatever source they want to reference. There are many different ways to play BattleTech (or not play, whether just reading and/or writing) and that will push the MUL to being used different ways for different purposes.
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Record Sheets 3150 has sheets for the Cavalier II armed with Flamer, Medium Recoilless Rifle, Support PPC and SRM 1. The MUL only has entries for Medium Recoilless Rifle, Support PPC and SRM. Should there be a Flamer option in the MUL?
IS Standard Baka has an introductory date of 3086 and an introductory era of Dark Age (3131 - 3150). One of these is wrong.
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How players use the MUL is up to them. If they want to use it as a guide and freely ignore it, they can. If they want to mix with other sources, they can. If they want to restrict to MUL only, they can.
That. That is literally all I'm asking for. Right now far too many are taking the MUL as some kind of absolute law. At least in my findings.
edit: more to the point, there is no guidance on what the purpose of the MUL really is on the actual site. No reference to the possibly of other sources of RATs, nothing. So someone that doesn't know how BT works will get the wrong impression if all they got was the AS Box set or even the AS:CE. According to AS:CE it implies that the MUL has no wiggle room and previous sources aren't mentioned (therefore don't exist as far as any new people would know).
I'm just trying to avoid table arguments and make people's lives more informed.
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http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/9466/viper-vp-1
Probably should be listed as experimental, because that's what Blazers are at during the Succession Wars
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this requires record sheet errata. please post in the RG thread.
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Shouldn't the Annihilator ANH-5W be marked as a Featured unit for Recognition Guide 24?
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yes
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With the Mercenaries Kickstarting bringing us new models for the IS Standard Battle Armor, I have a question about Comstar's usage of these units.
Looking at the MUL I can see that Comstar uses 4 person squad sizes in the Clan Invasion era, but then only uses the 6 person squad sizes afterward.
As a Comstar/Wobbie player (shocker, I know), I thought all Comstar/WOB units used 6 as the base of their lvl 2s. Why was this change made after the Clan Invasion era and would I be disallowed from using the 6 person squads in tourneys set in this era?
Or is this just an oddity with the MUL or canon? Or both?
May Blakes blessings be upon you
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How do I submit mechs to be included in the MUL? I find it odd that the [edited out non-canon product] is not in the MUL. The consequence is that many games require a MUL entry and all the [non-canon] mechs, VTOL, and vehicles are excluded.
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The MUL is for canon units only. We do not add fan made units, and that product is not an official product.
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The MUL lists the BV for a Jump Platoon (Rifle, Ballistic) as 79, but I get 89 using the TM page 309 formula:
DBR: This will be identical to the example's 37.5 (the example is a Jump Platoon (6 Blazer Rifles/1 Heavy Support Laser per squad)):
21 troopers x 1.5 = 31.5
+2 TMM gives 1.2 Defensive Factor for 31.5 x 1.2 = 37.8 (we don't round until the last step, so we keep the fraction as is)
OBR: This will be different from the example, since everyone has an Automatic Rifle instead of 18 Blazers and 3 Heavy Support Lasers.
Individual Weapons (21): 21 x 1.59 for an Auto-Rifle = 33.39
There are no Support Weapons, so we skip that step.
Anti-Mech attack value equals Individual Weapons plus Support Weapons (0), so 33.39 again.
Total WBR: 33.39 + 33.39 = 66.78
OBR = WBR x Speed Factor = 66.78 x 0.77 = 51.4206
Total BV = DBR + OBR = 37.8 + 51.4206 = 89.2206, which rounds to 89 for a 4/5 platoon. This is 10 more than the 79 listed BV. Perhaps it was a typo?
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conventional infantry BV has been on our to-do list for a bit. we are aware at least some of the numbers are wonky.
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Rog, thanks... it's currently being used to bolster the argument that infantry squads weigh the same as their parent platoons (no, I don't agree with that). Rifle Mech has a rules question that could settle the issue... fingers crossed!
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The Heavy Hover APC, Heavy Wheeled APC and MG/SRM/LRM variants of the Heavy Tracked APC are all on the IS General, Periphery General and Star League General lists during the SL era.
The base version of the Heavy Tracked APC is only on the RWR-TC and Star League General lists during the SL era.
Should the 'standard' base variant Heavy Tracked APC be available to IS and Periphery General during the Star League era too?
Edit: Possibly a similar issue with the Goblin Medium Tank vs the Goblin LRM & SRM variants in the SL era.
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Searching on the MUL for mixed tech battlemechs with 'early succession wars' production era produces 21 results. Searching for mixed tech mechs with early SW availability era gives 26 results. The additional units are 'C' variants from the Rec Guides, listed as available to HW Clans in the mid 2820's, but the MUL era icon shows 'Clan Invasion'.
(https://imgur.com/a/g68Sqlx)
Should the production era for the Rifleman C, Archer C, Warhammer C, Marauder C and Shadow Hawk C be changed to Early SW?
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The Heavy Hover APC, Heavy Wheeled APC and MG/SRM/LRM variants of the Heavy Tracked APC are all on the IS General, Periphery General and Star League General lists during the SL era.
The base version of the Heavy Tracked APC is only on the RWR-TC and Star League General lists during the SL era.
Should the 'standard' base variant Heavy Tracked APC be available to IS and Periphery General during the Star League era too?
Edit: Possibly a similar issue with the Goblin Medium Tank vs the Goblin LRM & SRM variants in the SL era.
APC is an oversight. Looking into the Goblin
Searching on the MUL for mixed tech battlemechs with 'early succession wars' production era produces 21 results. Searching for mixed tech mechs with early SW availability era gives 26 results. The additional units are 'C' variants from the Rec Guides, listed as available to HW Clans in the mid 2820's, but the MUL era icon shows 'Clan Invasion'.
Should the production era for the Rifleman C, Archer C, Warhammer C, Marauder C and Shadow Hawk C be changed to Early SW?
artifact of the rec guides moving the intro dates back. fixed
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Here are some more errata, mostly DA/ilClan stuff...
Definite errata:
1. Thrush TR-9 is in RS: 3150 but not on MUL yet
2. Jinggau 9CCr (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/9504/jinggau-jn-g9ccr): delete Early-Rep availability [Intro = 3114]
3. Fire Falcon G (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8180/fire-falcon-g): delete Early-Rep availability [Intro = 3113]
Fire Falcon R: delete Late-Rep availability [Intro = 3145]
Fire Falcon F: update Late-Rep availability to align with other configs (add Sea Fox, Wolves, Ras.Dom.)
Fire Falcon Prime: update Dark Age availability to align with other configs(add Sea Fox, Wolves, Ras.Dom.)
4. Ryoken J (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7553/ryoken-stormcrow-j) and Ryoken K: add Kurita to Late-Rep availability (to align with other configs)
Ryoken I: add Kurita to Early-Rep and Late-Rep availability (to align with other configs)
5. Mad Cat W (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7518/mad-cat-timber-wolf-w): add Ravens to Late-Rep availability (to align with other configs)
6. Arctic Wolf Prime (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/107/arctic-wolf-ii-prime) and Arctic Wolf B: add Ras.Dom to Dark Age availability (to align with other configs)
7. Scourge WD1 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6626/scourge-scg-wd1): delete RotS availability in DA era (redundant with IS General)
8. Javelin 10F (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1674/javelin-jvn-10f-fire-javelin): delete Taurian availability in Early-Rep era (redundant with Periph-General)
9. Rifleman IIC 8 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2717/rifleman-iic-8): delete Jade Falcon, Wolf availability in DA era (redundant with IS Clan General)
10. Crusader 5M (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/759/crusader-crd-5m): delete RotS in Late-Rep era (given it was removed in prior & subsequent eras)
11. Zhen Niao (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6474/zhen-niao): delete Early-Rep availability [Intro = 3101]
12. Von Luckner 85N (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/9483/von-luckner-heavy-tank-vnl-85n): delete Early-Rep availability [Intro = 3135]
13. Behemoth II (standard) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6447/behemoth-ii-heavy-tank) and (support): delete Early-Rep availability [Intro = 3102]
Potential errata:
14. Is it intended that the Galleon 106 has an intro date < the Galleon 105 intro date?
15. Should Mercs have Hatchetman 8S availability? (since its RS is in the Hansen's RRs Force Pack)
16. Ryoken II 3: are Ravens missing from Dark Age availability? (available to them in Late-Rep and ilClan eras)
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Regarding the Dictator, TRO: 3075 states:
Three Succession Wars took their toll on the Dictator, and most of the survivors are in a very poor state of repair.
This implies that between the Early Succession Wars and the Jihad, there were active (if only barely) Dictators, and the design never truly went extinct. The MUL lists them as extinct until Canopus activates their own lines and/or refurbishment program during the Jihad.
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Hoplite HOP-4A rules level 'Unknown' should be 'Introductory'.
Edit: it's the same as the 4C.
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Here are some more errata, mostly DA/ilClan stuff...
Definite errata:
1. Thrush TR-9 is in RS: 3150 but not on MUL yet
appears to have appeared now.
2. Jinggau 9CCr (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/9504/jinggau-jn-g9ccr): delete Early-Rep availability [Intro = 3114]
3. Fire Falcon G (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8180/fire-falcon-g): delete Early-Rep availability [Intro = 3113]
Fire Falcon R: delete Late-Rep availability [Intro = 3145]
Fire Falcon F: update Late-Rep availability to align with other configs (add Sea Fox, Wolves, Ras.Dom.)
Fire Falcon Prime: update Dark Age availability to align with other configs(add Sea Fox, Wolves, Ras.Dom.)
4. Ryoken J (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7553/ryoken-stormcrow-j) and Ryoken K: add Kurita to Late-Rep availability (to align with other configs)
Ryoken I: add Kurita to Early-Rep and Late-Rep availability (to align with other configs)
5. Mad Cat W (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7518/mad-cat-timber-wolf-w): add Ravens to Late-Rep availability (to align with other configs)
6. Arctic Wolf Prime (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/107/arctic-wolf-ii-prime) and Arctic Wolf B: add Ras.Dom to Dark Age availability (to align with other configs)
7. Scourge WD1 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6626/scourge-scg-wd1): delete RotS availability in DA era (redundant with IS General)
8. Javelin 10F (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1674/javelin-jvn-10f-fire-javelin): delete Taurian availability in Early-Rep era (redundant with Periph-General)
9. Rifleman IIC 8 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2717/rifleman-iic-8): delete Jade Falcon, Wolf availability in DA era (redundant with IS Clan General)
10. Crusader 5M (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/759/crusader-crd-5m): delete RotS in Late-Rep era (given it was removed in prior & subsequent eras)
11. Zhen Niao (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6474/zhen-niao): delete Early-Rep availability [Intro = 3101]
12. Von Luckner 85N (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/9483/von-luckner-heavy-tank-vnl-85n): delete Early-Rep availability [Intro = 3135]
13. Behemoth II (standard) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6447/behemoth-ii-heavy-tank) and (support): delete Early-Rep availability [Intro = 3102]
fixed, thanks.
Potential errata:
14. Is it intended that the Galleon 106 has an intro date < the Galleon 105 intro date?
yes
15. Should Mercs have Hatchetman 8S availability? (since its RS is in the Hansen's RRs Force Pack)
research required
16. Ryoken II 3: are Ravens missing from Dark Age availability? (available to them in Late-Rep and ilClan eras)
fixed. appears i entered it twice in the late republic
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Hoplite HOP-4A rules level 'Unknown' should be 'Introductory'.
Edit: it's the same as the 4C.
it has no record sheet, it only has a very short description. That descritpion gives it a different targeting system and notes a different effect for it. We have no rules for it. No other unit has that older targeting system.
So we don't know if/when it's ever described with rules what rules level it would have. Therefore we left it as unknown.
It you want to use a 4C record sheet for it, you're welcome to do so.
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APC is an oversight. Looking into the Goblin
Same issue with the 'Armored Personnel Carrier (Hover)'.
The 'Sabaku Kaze Heavy Scout Hover Tank' also has RWR and SL General availability in the SL era, but no access for the Draconis Combine. The factory was on a DC world and it's available to DC until 2883.
Similarly the 'Skulker Wheeled Scout Tank' is based on a generic APC chassis and built in the DC with later era IS general availability, but limited to SL General and RWR in the SL era.
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Penetrator PTR-8D (rec guide vol 27)
Has Laser AMS, should probably have ENE special ability.
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Penetrator PTR-8D (rec guide vol 27)
Has Laser AMS, should probably have ENE special ability.
The coolant pod is explosive and disqualifies it.
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Teppō Artillery Vehicle
MUL Entry: http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5207/teppo-artillery-vehicle
Errata to the unit's TRO entry: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/errata/technical-readout-3085-supplemental/msg1203051/#msg1203051
Was looking at some artillery units and this one caught my attention. Did some investigating but hit a snag regarding a couple issues
1st Issue: BV is missing from the MUL.
Data entry from 2016 does suggest a value of 1,874 though this value could have changed along with any other changes to the Battle Value system since then (I haven't seen any more recent revisions but I could be mistaken). I could not find an updated official Record Sheet in any of the more recent publications (RS: Clan Invasion, Jihad, Dark Age, or even 3150) but the changes found in the 2016 Errata entry for the TRO statlines - when run through the Alpha Strike conversion process - do match the statistics displayed on the units AS card in the link, with one exception...
2nd Issue: Alpha Strike PV appears off. I am coming up short of the posted value (91) though after consulting the AS Companion, I have manually calculated the PV to be 81 instead (80.5 before rounding). Normally Id chalk up 1-2 PV as a rounding error on my part, but I cannot account for a +10 PV discrepancy even with the v5 errata (pending 6th).
The following values for consideration:
OFV 39.0 (3 Ranged Damage + 36 artillery)
DFV 36.5 (0.5 MV wheeled + 1.0 AMS DSAF + 35.0 DIR)
GFB 5.0 (ECM + MHQ3)
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Teppo had an error due to the mismatched artillery not being handled correctly. Adjusting PV to 79 (the 0* at medium and short only cost 1.5 instead of 3 for OFV).
I'll let somebody else handle BV..
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With the Mercenaries Kickstarting bringing us new models for the IS Standard Battle Armor, I have a question about Comstar's usage of these units.
Looking at the MUL I can see that Comstar uses 4 person squad sizes in the Clan Invasion era, but then only uses the 6 person squad sizes afterward.
As a Comstar/Wobbie player (shocker, I know), I thought all Comstar/WOB units used 6 as the base of their lvl 2s. Why was this change made after the Clan Invasion era and would I be disallowed from using the 6 person squads in tourneys set in this era?
Or is this just an oddity with the MUL or canon? Or both?
May Blakes blessings be upon you
Hi, thanks for this. You've stumbled across an MUL quirk that led to an incorrect listing. Between the Early Succession Wars and the end of the Jihad, ComStar (and the Word of Blake starting in 3052) draws from the Inner Sphere General List. The quartet of four-man IS Standard BA squads were on that IS General List, which caused them to show up on the ComStar and WoB rosters. I have adjusted the IS General (Sqd4) suits' availability by removing IS General and adding the ten factions back that use it (CC, DC, FS, FC, FRR, FWL, LA, LC, 2SL, SIC). The six-man squad should now be the only one showing up on CS/WoB lists.
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Regarding the Dictator, TRO: 3075 states:
Three Succession Wars took their toll on the Dictator, and most of the survivors are in a very poor state of repair.
This implies that between the Early Succession Wars and the Jihad, there were active (if only barely) Dictators, and the design never truly went extinct. The MUL lists them as extinct until Canopus activates their own lines and/or refurbishment program during the Jihad.
Quick check-in just to make sure this didn't get lost between the couch cushions.
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not lost, just had to figure out exactly what to do with it.
The text clearly rules out extinction. However, the remaining numbers were very small after the Second Succession War. No faction until MoC during the Jihad would possess any in qualifying numbers. Seeing one would be a rare encounter, but not an unheard of presence in most navies or even the odd merc unit.
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Record Sheets 3150 has sheets for the Cavalier II armed with Flamer, Medium Recoilless Rifle, Support PPC and SRM 1. The MUL only has entries for Medium Recoilless Rifle, Support PPC and SRM. Should there be a Flamer option in the MUL?
Yes. Need to have the AS stats vetted but it will get in there
IS Standard Baka has an introductory date of 3086 and an introductory era of Dark Age (3131 - 3150). One of these is wrong.
changed to Early Republic
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not lost, just had to figure out exactly what to do with it.
The text clearly rules out extinction. However, the remaining numbers were very small after the Second Succession War. No faction until MoC during the Jihad would possess any in qualifying numbers. Seeing one would be a rare encounter, but not an unheard of presence in most navies or even the odd merc unit.
Not worth it just for the Dictator, but aren't there a couple designs in that boat? Perhaps a good place for some generic "Rare" faction similar to Unique?
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The Stooping Hawk E doesn't have an Era button in the search menu (should be Clan Invasion).
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huh. how about that.
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not lost, just had to figure out exactly what to do with it.
The text clearly rules out extinction. However, the remaining numbers were very small after the Second Succession War. No faction until MoC during the Jihad would possess any in qualifying numbers. Seeing one would be a rare encounter, but not an unheard of presence in most navies or even the odd merc unit.
Suggestion: Don't put it in IS General, but give it to every relevant faction with the Unique tag. That would show that just about everybody could have at least one, but you'd never see more than one or two in a given faction's service(three at most).
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Same issue with the 'Armored Personnel Carrier (Hover)'.
The 'Sabaku Kaze Heavy Scout Hover Tank' also has RWR and SL General availability in the SL era, but no access for the Draconis Combine. The factory was on a DC world and it's available to DC until 2883.
Similarly the 'Skulker Wheeled Scout Tank' is based on a generic APC chassis and built in the DC with later era IS general availability, but limited to SL General and RWR in the SL era.
Another similar issue with the AC/2 Carrier. It's not on the IS or Periphery general lists for the SL era, but the SRM Carrier and LRM Carrier are listed.
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Same issue with the 'Armored Personnel Carrier (Hover)'.
The 'Sabaku Kaze Heavy Scout Hover Tank'
Similarly the 'Skulker Wheeled Scout Tank'
triple fixed
Another similar issue with the AC/2 Carrier. It's not on the IS or Periphery general lists for the SL era, but the SRM Carrier and LRM Carrier are listed.
The AC/2 carrier was built at specific factories. I have added DC, FS, and DC where those factories were active during the Star League era
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Many thanks!
Infiltrator Mk. II Battle Armor Mk. II "Puma"
Infiltrator Mk. II Battle Armor Mk. II (Sensor)
Are the second 'Mk. II' statements redundant for these types?
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I have copied the entire BattleMech MUL into a spreadsheet in an attempt to collect every "official" record sheet. While going through my record sheets, I have noticed than many of the units in the MUL are linking to an older record sheet instead of the newest version available. Does this matter for purposes of the MUL or should every unit show the most recent record sheet?
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since we can only reference one sheet it can be a bit tricky.
Generally speaking, we will reference the newest sheet - but there are exceptions. It's usually decided on a case-by-case basis. The one thing we *try* to always do is list a source that is free (like what you find on the downloads page) over something that is not.
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I have found one unit that is not even listed although there may be a reason that I have missed.
Juliano JLN-5M
Tonnage: 90
Tech. Base: Mixed (I.S.)
Era: Dark Age
BV: 2,105
Printed in Record Sheets: 3145 Unabridged
I have no idea where this variant might be mentioned
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typo. it's the 5A and is listed as such in TRO 3150. This error has been corrected in RS: 3150
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http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7774/wakamiya-salvage-destroyer
Pondering availability of this. Since the Rasalhague Republic and then Ghost Bears took over various Combine worlds, i wonder if the Wakamiya should be available to those factions? HBHK says it was mostly used on water worlds, and for example, Alshain seems like a reasonable candidate to have a Wakamiya or two given its importance.
No direct evidence for this though, and there's naturally a question if the Ghost Bears would maintain any wet navy forces.
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Would require direct evidence
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http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2059/marauder-ii-mad-5a
Should this have CASE ability in AS?
Looking at AS conversion rules and errata PDF, CASE ability doesn't seem to specify it must be actually placed so that it would have effect in BattleTech. The MAD-5A's CASE is notoriously not covering ammo, but that doesn't seem to matter for AS conversion.
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http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2059/marauder-ii-mad-5a
Should this have CASE ability in AS?
Looking at AS conversion rules and errata PDF, CASE ability doesn't seem to specify it must be actually placed so that it would have effect in BattleTech. The MAD-5A's CASE is notoriously not covering ammo, but that doesn't seem to matter for AS conversion.
Indeed it should!
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Von Luckner Heavy Tank VNL-K85N shows as VNL-85N in the MUL
Von Luckner Heavy Tank VNL-K90 shows as VNL-90 in the MUL
Have these model numbers been changed intentionally or are these typos? I cannot find any errata or log showing where they were changed.
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Hi,
The Owens OW-1G in the MUL is showing a record sheet collection of RS:3145. It is not located in this collection of record sheets. It can be found in "Record Sheets: 3145 New Tech, New Upgrades" page 101. I do not see a MUL source for this volume.
Mike
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RS: 3145 pg 350
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Von Luckner Heavy Tank VNL-K85N shows as VNL-85N in the MUL
Von Luckner Heavy Tank VNL-K90 shows as VNL-90 in the MUL
Have these model numbers been changed intentionally or are these typos? I cannot find any errata or log showing where they were changed.
I’ll have to double check these but it’s almost certain that the K was omitted when entered
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Hi all. Just stumbled on this. Ha Otoko HR has OVL listed as a special, but it has no overheat value.
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Are the AS stats listed for the Prime Mover (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5400/prime-mover) and its variants correct? The AS card shown for the 2420 variant seems to imply that it has a LRM5 in its turret, but TRO Irregulars states that the Star League variant should have two forward-mounted SL and a SRM4 in the turret. All three variants also list CT10, but per TRO Irregulars should be capable of carrying two 10-ton cargo containers. Shouldn't that be CT20? I am not the most familiar with AS conversion rules, so I could be wrong.
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I am unable to find Record Sheets for the following units in the sources listed.
Hornet HNT-181 No record sheet in Experimental TRO: Republic Vol. 2
Thorn THE-F No record sheet in RS: 3039 Unabridged
Panther PNT-12K No record sheet in RS: 3085 Unabridged – The Cutting Edge
Wolfhound (Lucian Finn) No record sheet in RS: 3050 Upgrades Unabridged – Inner Sphere
Chameleon TRC-4C No record sheet in Recognition Guide: ilClan Vol. 25
Eidolon C-EID-001 No record sheet in RS: 3085 Unabridged – The Cutting Edge
Griffin GRF-2N2 No record sheet in RS: Operation Klondike
Champion CHP-1Nb2 No record sheet in RS: Operation Klondike
Crusader CRD-4L No record sheet in RS: 3085 Unabridged – Project Phoenix
Victor VTR-9D No record sheet in RS: 3050 Upgrades Unabridged – Inner Sphere
Banshee (John Bauer) No record sheet in RS: 3050 Upgrades Unabridged – Inner Sphere
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Hornet HNT-181 - Correct. No RS exists currently
Thorn THE-F - Make sure to check the "Notes" on the MUL page. It explicitly says to use the THE-S sheet
Panther PNT-12K - Notes say to use PNT-12K2
Chameleon TRC-4C - Use TRC-4B. It's the clan version with a slightly different cockpit that doesn't reach game rules
Eidolon C-EID-001 - I'm seeing it on Pg 133 of 3085u: The Cutting Edge
Griffin GRF-2N2 - Correct, no RS. Replace the ERPPC with a PPC
Champion CHP-1Nb2 - Correct, no RS. Replace the ERPPC with a PPC
Crusader CRD-4L - Notes say to use CRD-4D
Victor VTR-9D - Notes say to use VTR-9K
Wolfhound (Lucian Finn)
Banshee (John Bauer)
Need to look into these two
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There might be an error of transposition in the roles of two of the Septicemia configurations.
The A is listed as a Scout, but the A-Z is listed as a Brawler. However, it's the A-Z which has the Nova CEWS, whereas the A has removed the scouting gear in exchange for more weapons. I realise that assigning of roles is not an exact science and sometimes it's just a bit of designer intent, but these two in particular seem a bit of a typo.
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Brought that up earlier as well.
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We'd have to look again but the A-Z has better weapon systems. I think we decided that it did too much damage to be a scout.
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Well, the A does damage in the same order of magnitude - 10 at S range, which is why I was initially confused at it being a Scout.
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The CRB-27 Crab is featured in TRO Succession Wars, not the CRB-20.
The GLH-1D Galahad is featured in TRO Succession Wars (this isn't noted).
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starified, thanks
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The following units aren't listed as being featured in TRO: Clan Invasion. I'm just going through my TROs and looking up data from the MUL and noticed these. All the other units in this and TRO: Succession Wars look to be star-happy.
Black Hawk (Nova) Prime
Dasher (Fire Moth) Prime
Dragonfly (Viper) Prime
Fenris (Ice Ferret) Prime
Fire Falcon Prime
Gladiator (Executioner) Prime
Grendel (Mongrel) Prime
Koshi (Mist Lynx) Prime
Loki (Hellbringer) Prime
Mad Cat (Timber Wolf) Prime
Man O' War (Gargoyle) Prime
Raptor RTX1-O
Ryoken (Stormcrow) Prime
Shadow Cat Prime
Thor (Summoner) Prime
Vulture (Mad Dog) Prime
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The following units aren't listed as being featured in TRO: Clan Invasion.
Thanks.
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SGT-8R Sagittaire needs to be updated to be featured in TRO: Jihad, and also I'm assuming its record sheets (I don't have those). That's all I found for the units in TRO: Jihad. Thanks again for all your hard work!
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So it does! The RS is also contained in the free record sheets for the ELH lance pack so we're pointing there since we can only do one.
https://bg.battletech.com/download/ForcePack%20Record%20Sheets%20Eridani%20Light%20Horse.pdf
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I missed that the RS were from the new Forcepacks, thanks!
For TRO: Dark Age, the only thing I had a question on was the OR-2I Orochi: Should its Rules Level be Advanced instead of Standard?
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I was updating some of my units lists, and something caught my eye.
I have older cards saved that show the Schrek PPC Carrier (Armor) as not having the ENE special. The updated cards do. As it has AMS, is this in error?
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I missed that the RS were from the new Forcepacks, thanks!
For TRO: Dark Age, the only thing I had a question on was the OR-2I Orochi: Should its Rules Level be Advanced instead of Standard?
thunderbolt launchers become standard tech in 3081
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Good to know! I just saw it was listed as Advanced in the TRO. A few more things I saw (and I'm done!):
TRO Dark Age-
MS-1A Mortis should be updated to be featured in this
TRO 3075-
Pariah (Septicemia) Prime needs to be featured
TRO 3085 Supplemental-
Arctic Wolf II Prime should be featured instead of the A config (just to be consistent for OCD purposes)
The Eidolon is not featured, just the Yao Lien is.
Thanks again! I use the stars a lot to find things quickly so it's helpful for me at least.
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Not sure if this was already discussed somewhere, but I have only recently noticed the Jumbo class DropShip writeup and stats in Historical: Reunification War. It's a huge anachronism.
Problem 1: The Jumbo is listed, described and statted as a DropShip introduced 2423. That is 39 years before DropShips even became a thing with the introduction of the KF boom/hardpoint coupling for modern JumpShips in 2458 (prototyped in 2461).
Problem 2: In 2423, there were only Dropshuttles with their mass limit of 5,000 tons while the Jumbo is said to mass 14,800 tons.
Problem 3: The fluff for the Jumbo goes to some lengths to explain how the Jumbo concept - a multitude of similar craft from a multitude of manufacturers actually - pushed the envelope of DropShip sizes. But that doesn't fit at all with the evolution and especially the sizes of known DropShips otherwise. (Link to forum posting (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-articles/jumpship-of-the-month-(may-2011)-aquilla-class-transport/msg1939516/#msg1939516))
Tl;dr: It wasn't before 2600, i.e. some 140 years after the introduction of DropShips, that the 9,000 ton Dictator was introduced, after a series of designs gradually increasing in size. The Jumbo sticks out like a sore thumb, its size is way too big for its time and arguably still pushing the envelope 200 years down the timeline.
Unfortunately, given its fluff and the fact that it was published in H:Reunification War, this can't easily be fixed by simply changing the introduction date. Conversely, keeping the time and fluff means you'd have to re-design it as a vessel massing no more than 5,000 tons, a third of the stated size.
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The HK2 model Phoenix Hawk LAM should be featured.
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Albatross C from Shrapnel 13 is listed as available to both Clan Wolf and FWL in the Ilclan era. Why should it be available to the FWL? it's produced on Washburn, a planet
that has never been reconquered by the FWL (so far).
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Salvage
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Further to the earlier discussion about units that have Scout as their Alpha Strike role and a relatively high damage value, I would like to propose a few more for review.
The following Omni-Mechs are the only version of the chassis with the Scout role.
Puma (Adder) S has a short-range damage value of 7. Compare the TC Configuration.
Linebacker I has a short-range damage value of 6. Compare the T Configuration.
Both the Black Lanner F and the Ryoken III (Skinwalker) D have short- and medium-range values of 5. Compare the Black Lanner D.
Also, the Charger C has a short- and medium-range value of 6. I am not so sure about this, since the Charger does have a history of being considered a Scout, although there are variants that have been changed to Skirmisher.
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There is no requirement that a Scout not have high damage values.
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There is no requirement that a Scout not have high damage values.
The only reason I raised these was because of this comment a little over a week ago.
We'd have to look again but the A-Z has better weapon systems. I think we decided that it did too much damage to be a scout.
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Drake Medium Stealth Fighter (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4096/drake-medium-stealth-fighter) needs the art updated to match TRO: Prototypes.
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huh, strange. the image was in the database but never linked to that record. fixed
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The only reason I raised these was because of this comment a little over a week ago.
someone needs to talk to the Loki J.
There is room for a little wiggle as clan weapons can quickly pump damage values, especially at short range. It's good to have an occasional omni off-role mixed in sometimes in case you require something for formation building but can't add another mech for whatever reason. All of the mentioned mechs carry loadouts and/or equipment that can be used in a scouting context so it works out. Damage need not be the only sorting criteria, especially when AS stats sometimes obfuscate how those numbers are generated.
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someone needs to talk to the Loki J.
There is room for a little wiggle as clan weapons can quickly pump damage values, especially at short range. It's good to have an occasional omni off-role mixed in sometimes in case you require something for formation building but can't add another mech for whatever reason. All of the mentioned mechs carry loadouts and/or equipment that can be used in a scouting context so it works out. Damage need not be the only sorting criteria, especially when AS stats sometimes obfuscate how those numbers are generated.
Thank you for the explanation. After studying the specific configurations in more detail, I see what you mean. But do still have one query. Out of the Black Lanner configurations with probes (A, D and F) I would be inclined to say that D and F are very close in loadout but one is a Skirmisher and one is a Scout.
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The Ares Apollo is currently lacking faction availability. Is that intentional because "waiting for additional information" or an oversight?
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apparently never added in. it should have the same spread as the rest of the configs
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I found this guy that has an error. Its TUR damage value is higher than its basic damage. Also, based on the values, it looks like its PV is too high.
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2014/manticore-heavy-tank-the-ballista
And this one. The card does not load.
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8141/hmrv-hazard-materials-recovery-vehicle-davy-crockett-launcher-trailer
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And this one. The card does not load.
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8141/hmrv-hazard-materials-recovery-vehicle-davy-crockett-launcher-trailer
It's not supposed to.
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http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1261/grand-dragon-drg-7k-mark
Grand Dragon DRG-7K (Mark) should be Grand Dragon DRG-7K (Kisomita) to adhere to naming conventions of using the last name.
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The MUL reflects what is on the published sheet. That would have to change first
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The "1/2 Foot Level 1 (Rifle, Ballistic)" Alpha Strike card appears to have the wrong points cost. The card shows a PV of 9. The stats are identical to that of "1/2 Foot Level 1 (MG)" but the MG card has a PV of 7. On the other side "1/2 Foot Level 1 (Rifle, Energy)" has the same points cost of 9 but has an increased Medium range damage of 1 compared to the 0 of the Ballistic unit.
I recommend that it is changed to 7.
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The Assassin ASN-21 has a listed availability for the IlClan era of "Extinct", "Fitvelt Coalition" and "Pirates". I believe that it should be either "Extinct" or "Fitvelt Coalition" & "Pirates".
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The Assassin ASN-21 has a listed availability for the IlClan era of "Extinct", "Fitvelt Coalition" and "Pirates". I believe that it should be either "Extinct" or "Fitvelt Coalition" & "Pirates".
Maybe it means Filvelt and Pirates are extinct? :)
(more seriously, yeah, will check on what that's supposed to be..)
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Is the Morgenstern's (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2220/morgenstern-mr-1s) availability correct? I might be wrong, but it seems odd to me that the design hasn't proliferated beyond the Lyran and Lyran-based factions in sixty-four years...
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if you can find a reference of someone using it beyond the lyrans, let us know
once availabilities are published, they become canon. unless some kind of internal or external evidence shows up or an obvious mistake are pointed out, they generally won't be revisited until the next era
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The Assassin ASN-21 has a listed availability for the IlClan era of "Extinct", "Fitvelt Coalition" and "Pirates". I believe that it should be either "Extinct" or "Fitvelt Coalition" & "Pirates".
I murdered it but it was given a reprieve by appearing on a RAT. It lives for now
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if you can find a reference of someone using it beyond the lyrans, let us know
once availabilities are published, they become canon. unless some kind of internal or external evidence shows up or an obvious mistake are pointed out, they generally won't be revisited until the next era
Best I've got is RATs, and I know those aren't ironclad. But if those count, here is what I've got:
Era Report: 3145, page 178: RotS RAT in the 8-slot.
Field Manual: 3145, page 235: RotS RAT in the 15-slot.
Field Manual: 3145, page 237: Wolf Empire RAT in the 6-slot.
Field Manual: 3145, page 239: Mercenary RAT in the 17-slot.
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Is the Batu Prime's BV correct? Is it getting an extra PV from extreme range damage?
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Is the Batu Prime's BV correct?
Yes.
Is it getting an extra PV from extreme range damage?
No.
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The Avatar I configuration has availability for the Jihad of "Extinct", "Kell Hounds", "Mercenary" and "Wolf's Dragoons". Again, I'm pretty sure that Extinct shouldn't co-exist with other availability, an d normally shouldn't appear in a unit's first Era of availability.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/169/avatar-av1-oi (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/169/avatar-av1-oi)
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Yeah no idea why that one has it.
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Boomerang Spotter Plane (possibly other fixed-wing supports) Alpha Strike Card
The Boomerang Spotter Plane has the VSTOL special, but I believe that it should not. The Alpha Strike Companion says:
An aerospace unit or fixed-wing support
vehicle unit receives this special ability if it indicates that it has
the VSTOL chassis and controls modification in its Technical
Readout entry, or if it is an aerospace fighter, Small Craft, or
DropShip unit that has the aerodyne movement code (a).
The Boomerang has the STOL rather than the VSTOL mod, and it is a fixed-wing support vehicle rather than an aerospace fighter, small craft, or dropship, so it having the aerodyne movement code does not apply.
Also, the MUL says that this unit has a PV of 9, MegaMek says it has a PV of 6, but I don't actually know which is right.
(https://i.imgur.com/jTTgXxW.png)
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9 PV is correct for the Boomerang.
Boomerang should have VSTOL, will work up ASC errata later.
Note that fixed-wing support vehicles do have aerodyne movement type (a). It just needs to note VSTOL or STOL.
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I believe the Alpha Strike Luduan Scout Vehicle card is incorrect. It has a damage value of 1/1/0 and a turret damage value of 1/0/0. However, in CBT all of the Luduan's weapons are in the turret. Am I missing something?
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9 PV is correct for the Boomerang.
Boomerang should have VSTOL, will work up ASC errata later.
Note that fixed-wing support vehicles do have aerodyne movement type (a). It just needs to note VSTOL or STOL.
A Boomerang can take off vertically? WIN! :o
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A Boomerang can take off vertically? WIN! :o
You got it backwards. A VSTOL also cannot take off vertically :).
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Even if it can only pull off a vertical landing, that's still a WIN! :thumbsup:
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Anything can land vertically once.
As for the Boomerang, it has Very Short Take Off and Landing (VSTOL), not Vertical Take Off and Landing (VTOL).
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9 PV is correct for the Boomerang.
Boomerang should have VSTOL, will work up ASC errata later.
Note that fixed-wing support vehicles do have aerodyne movement type (a). It just needs to note VSTOL or STOL.
If 9 PV is correct, do you know what the mistake is in megamek's calculation, which I included in my original post?
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If 9 PV is correct, do you know what the mistake is in megamek's calculation, which I included in my original post?
Yes, and it's already been communicated to the MM team and I don't know the status of them fixing it (which version has/doesn't have the fix).
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Also, shouldn't the Boomerang have the ENE special, since it has no explosive components?
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Also, shouldn't the Boomerang have the ENE special, since it has no explosive components?
Aerospace units don't have ammo explosions, and it has no damage so can't make ENE attacks.
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The Shadow Hawk SHD-11CS2 is listed as having a role of "None" in the MUL. Given that the SHD-11CS is listed as "Missile Boat", I suspect that the 11-CS2 should also be a "Missile Boat".
I'm less sure whether this is an errata. The Centurion CN9-Ar is listed with Inner Sphere General availability in the Jihad era. This is described as being a field refit of existing 'Mechs, mostly the CN9-A. However, there are some Inner Sphere factions that do not appear to have access to any Centurions during the previous, Civil War, era. This raises the question of what the field refits are being applied to. The affected factions would be Comstar, Draconis Combine, Capellan Confederation, St Ives Compact and Word of Blake.
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The Shadow Hawk SHD-11CS2 is listed as having a role of "None" in the MUL. Given that the SHD-11CS is listed as "Missile Boat", I suspect that the 11-CS2 should also be a "Missile Boat".
Correct, as is printed on the sheet in RS: Jihad. The 11CS2 for a very long time was in the Mentioned But Never Given a Sheet limbo. Thus it was not assigned a role. This has been rectified.
I'm less sure whether this is an errata. The Centurion CN9-Ar is listed with Inner Sphere General availability in the Jihad era. This is described as being a field refit of existing 'Mechs, mostly the CN9-A. However, there are some Inner Sphere factions that do not appear to have access to any Centurions during the previous, Civil War, era. This raises the question of what the field refits are being applied to. The affected factions would be Comstar, Draconis Combine, Capellan Confederation, St Ives Compact and Word of Blake.
They somehow got enough refits to make the list. Could be salvage, open market, or acquisition and immediate upgrade of older Centurions during the near 15 years of the Jihad.
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Feature Request: Any chance we could get the TMM and Move data added to the text that shows up in the AS Force Builder on the MUL? If I want that information I have to have a 2nd window open and look up the individual AS cards for that information.
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Agreed, having Move data would be incredibly useful.
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Errata for following entries:
GOL-1H Goliath in the Star League Era is not listed as SLDF Regular or SLDF Royal, despite being on the Field Manual: SLDF RAT in the Assault Mech column for SLDF Regulars (pg. 241).
SCP-1N Scorpion is not listed in the Star League Era as SLDF Regular or SLDF Royal despite being designed in 2570 by the Terran Hegemony (per Era Digest: Age of War p.11) and classed in in-universe historical sources as a Star League Mech per the Mech's entry in the original TRO: 3025. Oliver, its main production facility, was also a TH world at the time.
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I stumbled across another 'Mech with a sheet and no Role listed, so I did a search for units with a Role of 'None' and a non-Null PV. Obviously some of them ought to have no role but the following are the ones I think need to have one:
- Ostscout IIC - Scout?
- Mad Cat III 2 - Skirmisher?
- Shrike "Black Rose" - Skirmisher?
- Ryoken II (Tassa) - Sniper?
- Wheeled Scout - Scout?
- Desert Scorpion Light Tank - Brawler?
- Tiger Medium Tank (Prototype) - Brawler?
- Rhino Battle Armour - Ambusher?
- Araña ARA-S-1 MilitiaMech - Skirmisher??
- St. Florian FLN-366-M FireMech MOD - Brawler??
Hope that helps.
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Hello!
In the Dominions Divided RasDom vehicle RAT it has the Carnivore tank listed but I don't see it in the MUL for RasDom. I'm pretty new so I dunno if it should be there or not so I thought I'd check.
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a RAT review for Tamar Rising, Empire Alone, and Dominions Divided is still in progress.
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Hello,
Is there an ETA on the units from RS:3150 and the RS packs released alongside it to be getting their PVs added?
It has been a month or two and while I believe they all have their BVs a fair few have no AS card or PV yet.
Thanks!
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Hi,
Can you give a few examples of records you’re referring to?
Edit: ok I think I see what you mean. They all still have to be processed.
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Thanks! I noticed it when I was looking at the Baka IS Standard suits.
While I'm on here typing, should the Mechbuster (Laser) have the ENE Special? It is equipped with three medium lasers instead of the AC20.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Card/2150?skill=4 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Card/2150?skill=4)
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Looking at two variants of the Transit aerospace fighter, the TR-10 and TR-12.
The TR-12 has 1 more structure and 1 more thrust compared to the TR-10, plus the FLK special.
Yet the TR-10 costs more PV than the TR-12 (34 v. 33 PV)
Seems weird that a unit that is just better would be cheaper.
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Looking at two variants of the Transit aerospace fighter, the TR-10 and TR-12.
The TR-12 has 1 more structure and 1 more thrust compared to the TR-10, plus the FLK special.
Yet the TR-10 costs more PV than the TR-12 (34 v. 33 PV)
Seems weird that a unit that is just better would be cheaper.
Wow, that hit a minefield.
The TR-10 is correct. There is a bug in the recent Aerospace fighter PV errata being applied to only some aerospace fighters and not all. Thus the TR-12's PV is short of where it should be.
Heads up to anyone using aerospace fighters, this is going to be hundreds of aerospace fighters going up ~3-4 PV. Working on full list.
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Thanks! I noticed it when I was looking at the Baka IS Standard suits.
While I'm on here typing, should the Mechbuster (Laser) have the ENE Special? It is equipped with three medium lasers instead of the AC20.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Card/2150?skill=4 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Card/2150?skill=4)
sure should. now does.
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When browsing the MUL, I found the Victor C in the ComStar faction list during the Clan invasion (3050-3061). I followed the link and was surprised to find Clan Victor from Operation Klondik there. Could it be that you meant the Victor VTR-C? That would also be more logical since this is the Victor with C3 slave and it is also mentioned in the ComStar field manual.
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Two questions.
1) Locust-1E http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1897/locust-lct-1e
People from my local community told me that mech was removed from IS General Availability (Succession War). Is that intentional?
2) Crab CRB-27sl. http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5873/crab-crb-27sl
Battle Value is missing , because record sheet doesn't exist ?
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Two questions.
1) Locust-1E http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1897/locust-lct-1e
People from my local community told me that mech was removed from IS General Availability (Succession War). Is that intentional?
Yes, the LCT-1E had never had much information on it before, until the First Succession War sourcebook had a technical readout entry on it explaining how it was a Bergan Industries (Capellan) variant, and only shipped to Capellan forces. The MUL was updated to reflect that information. This was changed a couple years ago.
2) Crab CRB-27sl. http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5873/crab-crb-27sl
Battle Value is missing , because record sheet doesn't exist ?
Exactly.
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The Kamisori B Alpha strike card is listed as having an MV of 12"t, which is the same as the other configs. However, the B has a Supercharger, so it ought to have an MV of 15"t, if my calculations are correct.
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Several units from the ‘Record Sheets: Clan Invasion’ source are not associated with that source:
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Source/Details/437/record-sheets-clan-invasion
Strangely it seems that the Prime, A, and B variants of all the clan mechs are missing.
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Due to limitations of the platform, a sheet can only be associated with a single source. The bulk of the missing items from RS: Clan Invasion point at the Clan Invasion Kickstarter record sheet books (http://masterunitlist.info/Source/Details/510 & http://masterunitlist.info/Source/Details/511 at https://bg.battletech.com/downloads/). We try to direct players to free sheets when possible.
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http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4562/mad-cat-iii-2
Mad Cat III 2 is missing its role and BV. Skirmisher and 1697 according to RS Dark Age.
Mad Cat III (standard) appears as a blank line in the other models lists.
Given the nature of Mad Cat III X as a prototype, should it have Unique in its availability list?
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I've come across a couple of anomalies in the Alpha Strike cards for the following units
The Browning Mobile HQ is listed as having an MV of 14"t, despite being a wheeled vehicle. The t should be changed to a w. Note that the only variant the (Half-track) is correctly shown as a t.
The Schrek PPC carrier (Armor) has the ENE and AMS specials, despite having a ballistic Anti-Missile System, not a Laser one. The ENE should be removed.
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I've come across a couple of anomalies in the Alpha Strike cards for the following units
The Browning Mobile HQ is listed as having an MV of 14"t, despite being a wheeled vehicle. The t should be changed to a w. Note that the only variant the (Half-track) is correctly shown as a t.
Yep, and missing RCN. Thanks.
The Schrek PPC carrier (Armor) has the ENE and AMS specials, despite having a ballistic Anti-Missile System, not a Laser one. The ENE should be removed.
The AMS on the record sheet is an error (it's overweight). So AMS was removed and PV lowered.
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http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4562/mad-cat-iii-2
Mad Cat III 2 is missing its role and BV. Skirmisher and 1697 according to RS Dark Age.
yes
Mad Cat III (standard) appears as a blank line in the other models lists.
a bug that popped up when we removed (Standard). fortunately, it's an easy fix when found. i assume examples will keep rearing their head until the heat death of the universe
Given the nature of Mad Cat III X as a prototype, should it have Unique in its availability list?
indeed
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a bug that popped up when we removed (Standard). fortunately, it's an easy fix when found. i assume examples will keep rearing their head until the heat death of the universe
As it happens, the Jade Hawk's standard variant suffers from the same problem.
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6565/jade-hawk-jhk-04
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The Buzzard Hover Tank Alpha Strike specials are shown as "FC, SRCH, TUR(2/2/2, IF1)". I'm not sure whether it's possible to have a special mounted in the turret that isn't already in existence.
The IF1 should either be added to the general specials or taken away from the TUR special. I believe that two MML7s should probably permit IF1 generally.
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The Warhammer C and Warhammer C 2 are both listed as Standard tech level. Since they're both Mixed Tech, shouldn't they be Experimental because their introduction date is before Mixed technology units became Standard? Unless there's been an errata to that rule?
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The Warhammer C and Warhammer C 2 are both listed as Standard tech level. Since they're both Mixed Tech, shouldn't they be Experimental because their introduction date is before Mixed technology units became Standard? Unless there's been an errata to that rule?
If all the equipment exists in both tech bases, then it’s not considered experimental.
So a standard fusion engine exists in both IS and Clan tech bases. Same with standard internal structure, etc.
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Both mechs contain equipment that is not purely All/Clan tech though. The Warhammer C has IS machine guns which are IS tech base, not "all", and the Warhammer C 2 has IS double heat sinks which are likewise not included in tech that is available to both tech bases.
Also both record sheets in RG7 list their rules level as experimental.
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An updated Recognition Guide vol 7 was released that updated the Rules Level of the Warhammer C and C 2 to Standard on their record sheets.
I don't have the exact wording on the ruling, nor was I the one that made the ruling. It was a ruling that was handed to us in the form of "the Warhammer C and Warhammer C 2 are standard rules level". I can give the general idea, but my words or opinions don't matter here, I was just trying to give the general idea of what was going on.
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Oh. I see i've forgotten to update that RG then. So many of them...
Also looking at the list of mixed tech variants, they seem to have been largely moved to Standard category from Experimental.
I suppose those units that don't actually have anything "experimental" in them strict reading of construction rules aside especially since mixed tech is nowadays kinda normal and part of BMM. And this way RGs are mostly Standard (and Advanced) units rather than Experimental.
Rules levels differing for eras can certainly be confusing for newer players. Standard from the beginning does make it simpler.
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I think the Dreadnought Mk II (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5570/dreadnought-mk-ii-land-train)might be in error. Text describes it as only being used in Alphard, the trailers are all Marian Hegemony-only, but the tractor unit is listed under mercenary availability.
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confirmed
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The Kite Recon Vehicle (Fusion) is mislabelled as having ART-TC when it is not equipped with a Thumper Cannon (it has two IS MPLs, an Armored Motive System, and an Angel ECM suite).
(http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Card/8052?skill=4)
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stats were definitely copied from the wrong unit. will get the right numbers vetted
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http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2202/mobile-long-tom-artillery-lt-mob-25
The TRO3039 Mobile Long Tom may need AS card review. It seems to have wrong size and too little structure at least.
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8044/mobile-long-tom-artillery-lt-mob-95
RS3150 Mobile Long Tom seems to have too little structure as well given its mass.
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Since the combat manuals have rules for using squad-sized (CAR1) infantry formations, could those cards be added to the MUL?
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I came across one, and then did a search to find the other 3.
The following 4 units have both the CASE and ENE specials on their Alpha Strike cards. I believe they should be mutually exculsive:
Strider SR1-OM - No ammo that I can see, so should probably just have ENE.
Catapult CPLT-C6 - Qualifies for both CASE and ENE, but CASE is superfluous (or confusing) rules-wise.
Hephaestus Scout Tank D - Has AP Gauss, which I think is explosive, so should have CASE but not ENE.
Demon Tank (PPC) - No ammo that I can see, so should probably just have ENE.
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I came across one, and then did a search to find the other 3.
The following 4 units have both the CASE and ENE specials on their Alpha Strike cards. I believe they should be mutually exculsive:
Strider SR1-OM - No ammo that I can see, so should probably just have ENE.
Catapult CPLT-C6 - Qualifies for both CASE and ENE, but CASE is superfluous (or confusing) rules-wise.
Hephaestus Scout Tank D - Has AP Gauss, which I think is explosive, so should have CASE but not ENE.
Demon Tank (PPC) - No ammo that I can see, so should probably just have ENE.
thanks, fixed.
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http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8315/scorpion-scp-2n
Seems to have wrong BV, by exactly 100. Should be 1562 judging by Megamek and RGvol19 RS.
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http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3854/boomerang-spotter-plane
I believe the PV is wrong.
Should be:
thrust 4 gives 1.
2 stucture * 1.2 Rounds to 2.5
RCN 2
5.5 rounds to 6.
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http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3854/boomerang-spotter-plane
I believe the PV is wrong.
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=40232.msg1949103#msg1949103
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Yeah. Just saw that and grokked it. Here goes another round of updating my alpha strike cards... And everything was so tidy too... except for the boomerang.
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Cavalier Battle Armor [MG] (Sqd6) is missing. There's Sqd4 and Sqd5 entries but no entry for the Sqd6
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Since the combat manuals have rules for using squad-sized (CAR1) infantry formations, could those cards be added to the MUL?
Bumping this
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Cavalier Battle Armor [MG] (Sqd6) is missing. There's Sqd4 and Sqd5 entries but no entry for the Sqd6
resolved, thanks.
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http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8315/scorpion-scp-2n
Seems to have wrong BV, by exactly 100. Should be 1562 judging by Megamek and RGvol19 RS.
fixed, thanks
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A few things on the MUL I noticed or request clarification on:
From the Battletech Dossiers: The Bounty Hunter, in the PDF it has a record sheet and info about a Shadow Hawk SHD-5H piloted by Sandy. However in the MUL the given Shadow Hawk is a SHD-5D. Also, it appears entries on MUL for the Mad Cat (first version, second is there) and Marauder II are not there.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Source/Details/365
The Blackjack C from the Wolf's Dragoons records is missing a year introduced.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8388/blackjack-c
And finally from the Shrapnel #12 the Jinggau entries seem to have the rules swapped from the MUL.
https://bg.battletech.com/download/Shrapnel%2012.pdf
JN-G7Lr: record sheet says Standard, MUL says Advanced http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/9503/jinggau-jn-g7lr
JN-G8Ar: record sheet says Standard, MUL says Advanced http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/9502/jinggau-jn-g8ar
JN-G9B: record sheet says Standard, MUL says Advanced http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/9501/jinggau-jn-g9b
JN-G9CCr: record sheet says Advanced, MUL says Standard http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/9504/jinggau-jn-g9ccr
Thank you
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A few things on the MUL I noticed or request clarification on:
From the Battletech Dossiers: The Bounty Hunter, in the PDF it has a record sheet and info about a Shadow Hawk SHD-5H piloted by Sandy. However in the MUL the given Shadow Hawk is a SHD-5D. Also, it appears entries on MUL for the Mad Cat (first version, second is there) and Marauder II are not there.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Source/Details/365
The SHD-5D change is intentional. There is no SHD-5H. It was a typo.
The Mad Cats and Marauder IIs are duplicates of existing record sheets. The MUL is technically incapable of listing multiple RS sources for a unit, so we prioritize free downloads and then larger compilations of RS. In these cases, Record Sheets: Clan Invasion.
The Blackjack C from the Wolf's Dragoons records is missing a year introduced.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8388/blackjack-c
Yes, we don't know one yet.
And finally from the Shrapnel #12 the Jinggau entries seem to have the rules swapped from the MUL.
https://bg.battletech.com/download/Shrapnel%2012.pdf
JN-G7Lr: record sheet says Standard, MUL says Advanced http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/9503/jinggau-jn-g7lr
JN-G8Ar: record sheet says Standard, MUL says Advanced http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/9502/jinggau-jn-g8ar
JN-G9B: record sheet says Standard, MUL says Advanced http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/9501/jinggau-jn-g9b
JN-G9CCr: record sheet says Advanced, MUL says Standard http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/9504/jinggau-jn-g9ccr
Still checking these...
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the record sheets are incorrect in all instances
JN-G7Lr: Advanced due to armored components
JN-G8Ar / JN-G9B: Advanced. Mixed Tech doesn't become standard until 3082
JN-G9CCr: Standard. All components are standard by the 3110s
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Stormbird (Jade Falcon) - http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/9415/stormbird-battle-armor-jade-falcon-sqd5
For all squad sizes, the AS card has XMEC, but I think it should also have MEC. The BA has 1 basic manipulator to qualify for OmniMech mechanization. The XMEC ability causes a carrying 'Mech to lose 2 inches of movment per turn, while MEC has no such reduction.
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Stormbird (Jade Falcon) - http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/9415/stormbird-battle-armor-jade-falcon-sqd5
For all squad sizes, the AS card has XMEC, but I think it should also have MEC. The BA has 1 basic manipulator to qualify for OmniMech mechanization. The XMEC ability causes a carrying 'Mech to lose 2 inches of movment per turn, while MEC has no such reduction.
XMEC does not reduce movement if the unit has OMNI. It functions exactly like MEC on an OMNI unit, so there's no need for the MEC special. (Note this was added as errata to the 5th printing, so if you have an earlier printing, check the errata document under Transporting Infantry).
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Some of these are in RS books with roles
Araña - Striker
Mad Cat III 2 - Skirmisher
Shrike "Black Rose" - Sniper
the remainder will be assigned by Role Master Diviner-in-Chief NCKestrel once he communes with the proper entities.
Ostscout IIC
Ryoken II (Tassa)
Wheeled Scout
Desert Scorpion Light Tank
Tiger Medium Tank (Prototype)
Rhino Battle Armour
St. Florian FLN-366-M FireMech MOD
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I'd really have preferred that the MUL had not associated the classics with RG collections. I used to use the MUL to figure out what RG a given mech was in, and given that I have all the RG, the collection isn't on my acquisition list.
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Tiger Medium Tank (Prototype)
this was the only one not assigned a role since no RS exists
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http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3585/wolverine-ii-wvr-7h
Is the Draconis Combine getting the Wolverine II during the Jihad era an error or intended? After the Jihad they no longer get the Wolverine II but suddenly the Capellans get it.
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Has there been any update or further progress on the pre-invasion Clan availabilities?
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Has there been any update or further progress on the pre-invasion Clan availabilities?
still significant work to do, but the hardest part is done.
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http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3585/wolverine-ii-wvr-7h
Is the Draconis Combine getting the Wolverine II during the Jihad era an error or intended? After the Jihad they no longer get the Wolverine II but suddenly the Capellans get it.
bit of a knot to untangle but we'll update when we figure it out
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Like the Demolisher II, add an "Experimental in XX" Note to Devastator DVS-2 to account for prototype(s?) existing in 3044 (McCarron's Armored Cavalry, Marlette scenarios, pp. 26-59)
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Like the Demolisher II, add an "Experimental in XX" Note to Devastator DVS-2 to account for prototype(s?) existing in 3044 (McCarron's Armored Cavalry, Marlette scenarios, pp. 26-59)
Prototypes in universe lore is a separate thing from experimental rules level. Specific equipment on the unit must have an experimental rules level, not just the unit itself be a prototype.
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Svartalfa ProtoMech
MUL lists BV of 540, but Greek Fire calculated it as 524 here https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,7572.msg1525526.html#msg1525526 and MegaMek shows 536. Might be worth a double check.
Also, the BV for these two dev-level erratum (Marsden I & Estevez) has not changed.
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,6618.msg981926.html#msg981926
This would also change the Estevez AA BV
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Void Medium Battle Armor Caltrop (Sqd6) - on the AS card specials is wrongly listed CAR4
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Swallow Attack WiGE (Spotter) - On the AS card specials, TAG is misspelt
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Kanazuchi Assault Battle Armor (Support) (Sqd4)
Kanazuchi Assault Battle Armor (Support) (Sqd5)
Kanazuchi Assault Battle Armor (Support) (Sqd6)
All of them on the AS Card are classified as BM instead of BA
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Kanazuchi Assault Battle Armor (Support) (Sqd4)
Kanazuchi Assault Battle Armor (Support) (Sqd5)
Kanazuchi Assault Battle Armor (Support) (Sqd6)
All of them on the AS Card are classified as BM instead of BA
Thanks.
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Fenrir Battle Armor [Mortar] (Sqd6) - AS card is not in line with Sqd4 and Sqd5 stats (Point Value, Damage)
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My old (Fanpro, 2006) copy of TRO 3058U lists a 3055 Karnov upgrade as having 7 tons of general cargo, my RS 3055U (2011 print) gives it a 7 ton Infantry Bay instead and MUL gives it IT7 (see http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1754/karnov-ur-transport-3055-upgrade), so the books seem to disagree on what type of cargo 3055 Karnov upgrade is supposed to be able to carry without any modifications.
The fluff in TRO 3058U suggests that the 3055 Karnov upgrade is supposed to be primarily a "general" cargo transport, though convertible to one dedicated for infantry - just like its older variant described in TRO 3039 (which has CT6 in MUL - see http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1759/karnov-ur-transport), therefore I believe that both RS 3055U and MUL may be wrong - Karnov UR Transport (3055 Upgrade) should have CT7 special instead of IT7, and it should be left to the players to convert it back to IT7 if needed. At the same time the Cargo Transport, Tons (CT#) special on p. 84 AS:CE could be reworded a bit to suggest to the players that at least on some units CT# may be convertible to IT# with the same number, and possibly also to VTM#, VTH#, VTS#, AT#, MT#, PT# etc. with an appropriately smaller number. Similar story with converting CK#.
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this is being investigated, thanks
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At the same time the Cargo Transport, Tons (CT#) special on p. 84 AS:CE could be reworded a bit to suggest to the players that at least on some units CT# may be convertible to IT# with the same number, and possibly also to VTM#, VTH#, VTS#, AT#, MT#, PT# etc. with an appropriately smaller number. Similar story with converting CK#.
This rule already exists on p84. 6th printing did change it (intentionally) to a 2:1 conversion rate instead of 1:1, but it exists already.
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Many thanks!
Infiltrator Mk. II Battle Armor Mk. II "Puma"
Infiltrator Mk. II Battle Armor Mk. II (Sensor)
Are the second 'Mk. II' statements redundant for these types?
Bumping this.
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This rule already exists on p84. 6th printing did change it (intentionally) to a 2:1 conversion rate instead of 1:1, but it exists already.
Yeah, it does. Looks like I somehow managed to miss it, sorry. Of course it doesn't change the fact that it is still unclear if 3055 Karnov upgrade should have CT7 or IT7 special, and the change in 6th printing makes it even more of a problem.
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Bumping this.
redundant, yes. they are no longer Mk. II ^ 2
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Tempest C's fluff in TRO 3150 New Tech New Upgrades suggests that it's built by the Wolf Empire, but the MUL only lists it as available to the FWL in the Dark Age and FWL and Clan Protectorate in ilClan Era.
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More about Kanov's carrying capacity. Upon closer reading of RS 3058U and p. 239 TM I realized that 3055 Karnov's record sheet lists a 7-ton infantry bay, not infantry compartment, which is meant for a single motorized platoon, not just 7 tons of any infantry, potentially further complicating what special (IT#), if any, it should get. For example if the 3055 Karnov would get CT7, it would convert into IT3.5 (assuming the number isn't supposed to be rounded somehow - the 6.02 errata doesn't mention any rounding), which would make the Karnov unable to lift a single standard motorized infantry platoon (either a generic one from p. 213 TW or a similar one from p. 213 TRO 3085 listed in MUL here - http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2233/motorized-infantry both of which weigh 6 tons), despise the RS saying that it is equipped with a bay specifically meant for this purpose. Then again, as I said before, I believe that the Karnov's sheet in RS 3058U may be incorrect, because it doesn't seem to match Karnov's stat block and fluff text in TRO 3058U.
Having said that, I'm just a mostly classic BT player only occasionally touching Alpha Strike rules, so I think this is enough from me on the topic, especially since Sartris already said it is being investigated.
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Tempest C's fluff in TRO 3150 New Tech New Upgrades suggests that it's built by the Wolf Empire, but the MUL only lists it as available to the FWL in the Dark Age and FWL and Clan Protectorate in ilClan Era.
they don't produce it. we're looking into whether they would have it in any real numbers
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they don't produce it. we're looking into whether they would have it in any real numbers
Ok, we checked it out. Until the day arrives that the Wolf-FWL border is not in a state of active war, the wolves have no reliable supply
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The standard 'Mechbuster appears to have LSW-LosTech availabilities despite debuting in 3023.
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which?
I misread the question. The offending availability will be terminated
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Since the combat manuals have rules for using squad-sized (CAR1) infantry formations, could those cards be added to the MUL?
It's been a month since I last bumped this and I haven't seen a response, so third time's the charm. To clarify I'm asking about getting generic infantry squads (rifle, laser, etc.), not the few CAR1 formations we already have from 3085.
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No plans at this time
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Thanks for that. Additional note for the 'Buster family, the MUL has them as "Mechbuster" and "Seabuster", but TROs 3039, Prototypes, and XTRO Periphery all render them as "'MechBuster" (note the apostrophe) and "SeaBuster". Does the MUL use a more modern, altered spelling/casing over the original TROs, or is this a mistake?
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It should match the record sheet (some exceptions apply). I’ll take a look a little later to confirm
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XTRO Periphery has the Seabuster in normal case, RS 3039 has the 'MechBuster in PascalCase with the apostrophe (but curiously normal case in the index). I don't have RS Prototypes on hand to verify that case.
May end up elevating this to an Ask The Devs question because there's enough inconsistency here to make me think it might not be deliberate.
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http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8409/motorized-field-artillery-sniper
The CAR value doesnt add up. Its a Mechanized Wheeled platoon, so 20 tons, and it adds the sniper for an additional 20 tons. It should be CAR40.
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I found some mechs are available for St. Ives Compact in Tech Manual: Capellan Confederation RAT (p. 123) but missing in MUL for St. Ives Clan Invasion/Civil War eras (not sure which one qualifies more to this tech manual). Is TM:CC considered canon in that regard? The list of mechs in question:
RVN-3L Raven
JR7-F Jenner
HSR-300-D Hussar
OW-1 Owens
SDR-9K Venom
SCB-9T Scarabus
WLF-2 Wolfhound
SPR-5F Spector
D9-G9 Duan Gung
AF1 Arctic Fox
SDR-5M Spider
UM-R63 UrbanMech
COM-5D Commando
BH-305 Battle Hawk
VND-3L Vindicator
ENF-6M Enforcer III
BSW-X1 Bushwacker
SNT-04 Sentry
STH-1D Stealth
MS1-O Men Shen
CLNT-2-3U Clint
VL-5S Vulcan
CPLT-C3 Catapult
CTF-3L Cataphract
MDG-1A Rakshasa
CES-3R Caesar
MTR-5K Maelstrom
PTR-4D Penetrator
STC-2D Striker
DVS-2 Devastator
NSR-9FC Nightstar
VTR-9K Victor
PPR-5S Salamander
NSR-9J Nightstar
AS7-K Atlas
CGR-1A9 Charger
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It’s always acceptable to ask about specific entries from any product.
We will take these under consideration
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I noticed while going through Empire Alone that the FWL Regulan sub table has the Drillson (Streak) near the middle of their RAT Bell curve for medium vehicles (Empire Alone pg 130). However there’s no Drillson available to the FWL on the MUL for IlClan era, though it was available in the Dark Age.
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I found some mechs are available for St. Ives Compact in Tech Manual: Capellan Confederation RAT (p. 123) but missing in MUL for St. Ives Clan Invasion/Civil War eras (not sure which one qualifies more to this tech manual). Is TM:CC considered canon in that regard? The list of mechs in question:
Determined furnished by FedCom and will be added:
SCB-9T Scarabus
WLF-2 Wolfhound
COM-5S Commando
BH-K305 Battle Hawk
CLNT-2-3U Clint
ENF-6M Enforcer III
BSW-X1 Bushwacker
SNT-04 Sentry
STH-1D Stealth
SPR-5F Spector
MDG-1A Rakshasa
CES-3R Caesar
MTR-5K Maelstrom
PTR-4D Penetrator
DVS-2 Devastator
NSR-9FC Nightstar
VL-5S Vulcan
PPR-5S Salamander
NSR-9J Nightstar
AS7-K Atlas
SDR-7M Spider (bought from FWL and transferred to SiC)
Kurita offering lukewarm support and will be added:
HSR-300-D Hussar
OW-1 Owens
JR7-F Jenner
SDR-9K Venom
CGR-1A9 Charger
FM:CC depicts SiC regiments after the forced reunification so these would have only been furnished after that fact. Will not be added:
RVN-3L Raven
D9-G9 Duan Gung
VND-3L Vindicator
MS1-O Men Shen
STC-2D Striker
UM-R63 UrbanMech
CTF-3L Cataphract
No:
VTR-9K Victor - They use the 9D, which is statistically the same mech
AF1 Arctic Fox - FC doesn't use this so they wouldn't have a reliable supply
EDIT ADDENDUM: The CPLT-C3 has also been added because who doesn't want more artillery?
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I noticed while going through Empire Alone that the FWL Regulan sub table has the Drillson (Streak) near the middle of their RAT Bell curve for medium vehicles (Empire Alone pg 130). However there’s no Drillson available to the FWL on the MUL for IlClan era, though it was available in the Dark Age.
Added.
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Was looking at the DI Multipurpose Light VTOL today and noticed that the attack profile is 0*/1/1, but it has the special TUR(1/1/1).
As it is only equipped with a light PPC is the TUR special in error?
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fixed, thanks
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http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3750/atlas-c
The Atlas C's AS card is missing CASE. It has Clan CASE judging by BoT Supplemental and RG24. Appears to be correct otherwise.
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still significant work to do, but the hardest part is done.
The updated early Clan availabilities are really useful, much appreciated :smiley:
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I see the early clan availabilities and that is a nice project to finish up, thanks team
Is the early ilClan RAT review still going on? Or has it been paused waiting for ilKhans Eyes Only?
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It’s been paused because I haven’t had time to attend to it
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Possible missing faction availability that opens up two wider questions.
"Mutual Advantage" fiction in Total Warfare has the Diamond Sharks selling Ha Otoko to the Hansea in the closing days of the Civil War era.
Is CDS selling something to a faction sufficient to make it available to them, or is CDS availability just a shortcut for availability to everyone who has the coin?
I also see there's no specific faction listed for the Hansea, they're not even included in the Periphery General lists. Short of a likely exhausting addition of a distinct Hansea faction, add them to the General listing.
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Is CDS selling something to a faction sufficient to make it available to them,
No. MUL availability is based on usage. If they sell it but don’t use it, the unit will not appear on their list.
I also see there's no specific faction listed for the Hansea, they're not even included in the Periphery General lists. Short of a likely exhausting addition of a distinct Hansea faction, add them to the General listing.
Periphery general is only for individually present factions. Hansa is not one of those, and as such, won’t appear as part of Periphery general unless added individually. There sre no currently plans to add them at present.
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I also see there's no specific faction listed for the Hansea, they're not even included in the Periphery General lists. Short of a likely exhausting addition of a distinct Hansea faction, add them to the General listing.
This is not how the General lists work. The general tag is a shortcut for "every faction in this list has this unit available." It says nothing about factions not listed. We don't just add a faction to a general list, we add the faction, and if the unit then fulfills the critiera of belonging to every faction in a general list, we then add it to the general list.
If we wanted to add the Hansa, not only would we have to add it individually as a faction, we would then have to remove from Periphery General every unit the Hansa don't have. There are no shortcuts for the work.
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Yikes! You're saying no new factions EVER is the preferred solution for those of use relying on the General lists...
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Yikes! You're saying no new factions EVER is the preferred solution for those of use relying on the General lists...
Honestly the closest approximation to minor power periphery is probably the pirates list
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Or the Lothian League, Illyrian Palatinate, Mica Majority, Aurigan Coalition etc.
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Yikes! You're saying no new factions EVER is the preferred solution for those of use relying on the General lists...
No. I did not say that.
The MUL is work. I didn’t say we would never work, I said we wouldn’t take shortcuts.
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If we want to keep you guys around, I'd be disinclined to make you work harder. Also, I wouldn't want to reduce the General List beyond where it is. No new factions means the smaller factions continue to enjoy the wider General List...
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Issue: R10 Mechanized ICV A is listed as 639 BV on the MUL.
Fix: R10 config A is listed at 839 both in Record Sheets 3145 Unabridged and MegaMekLab. Suspect typo. Adjust to correct 839 value.
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The MUL has the Hellhound II as the primary name of RG30's cover girl, with the Hellcat name in parentheses. RG30 instead uses the Hellcat as the primary name, with Hellhound II in parentheses. The same conflict exists for the Hellcat-P/Hellhound II-P.
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MUL seems to use IS names first, Clan names in parentheses. Off-hand the Hellcat is the Clan name.
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Both are Clan designations (a la Pariah/Septicemia).
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Issue: R10 Mechanized ICV A is listed as 639 BV on the MUL.
Fix: R10 config A is listed at 839 both in Record Sheets 3145 Unabridged and MegaMekLab. Suspect typo. Adjust to correct 839 value.
this has been corrected, thanks
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The MUL has the Hellhound II as the primary name of RG30's cover girl, with the Hellcat name in parentheses. RG30 instead uses the Hellcat as the primary name, with Hellhound II in parentheses. The same conflict exists for the Hellcat-P/Hellhound II-P.
per the Pariah (Septicemia), original name goes first.
this wasn't flagged when we put the original records up, but i'll bring it back up
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http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3750/atlas-c
The Atlas C's AS card is missing CASE. It has Clan CASE judging by BoT Supplemental and RG24. Appears to be correct otherwise.
Huh, didn't even think about this, but looking at RG24 case looks to be in place.
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PAB-28 Sniper Suit (Sqd5) Alpha Strike Stats are not in line with AS stats for the Squad 4 and Squad 6 units (less PV less damage at short)
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Suggestion: The Locust LCT-6M having availability to the Free Worlds League and the Wolf Empire in IlClan era (currently only available to mercenaries). It’s only place of known manufacture was on Stewart by Corean Enterprises, until the Wolves gutted the facility prior to marching on Terra. I’d assume the highest density of use is in that region based on Dark Age availability (hence FWL), and could easily see the last production models winding up with wolf Garrison clusters before the facility was taken offline.
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The Thunderbolt IIC 2 should have the CASE special ability due to being a clan tech base design (improved heavy large laser in the right torso). The RS also lists it as having CASE in that torso.
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Linebacker F (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4523/linebacker-f) -- should have its Clan Inv and Civil War era availabilities deleted (Intro Year = 3068)
Ryoken (Kotare) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5488/ryoken-stormcrow-kotare)-- should this also have the 'Unique' designation for Clan Inv?
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I have two questions on the MUL for conventional infantry.
1. It looks like you guys shortened the names of the TRO3085 specialized infantry. That's a great idea, but I think some of the names might be a bit too short, as they now are easy to confuse with either standard infantry units or each other. For example, Heavy Jump Infantry...
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=heavy+jump+infantry
Any chance you could extend the naming just a wee bit, especially for ones that are unique to a faction, but not necessarily "Unique" (by the MUL definition). For example:
Clan Heavy Jump Infantry
Heavy Jump Infantry Platoon, DEST [or Heavy Jump Infantry Platoon (DEST), or Heavy Jump Infantry Platoon (PPC)]
Heavy Jump Infantry Platoon, Royal Ghurka [or Heavy Jump Infantry (Royal Ghurka), or Heavy Jump Infantry (Gauss), etc.]
2. A question on Tech Rules levels for conventional infantry. It looks like the only ones that are "Introductory" are the ones listed in TW, but ones that are otherwise identical in terms of equipment but faction-specific (because of troop numbers--i.e., Comstar, Marians, Taurians) are "Standard" tech. Should all be one or the other? Here are foot infantry as an example:
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=Foot+Platoon
In fact, I would have assumed that the Tech Rules would be:
Standard weapons (flamer, MG, SRM, rifle, laser, LRM) = intro
Newer weapons in TM (Gauss) = standard
TacOps stuff (body armor, beast or VTOL mech, mines) = advanced
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1. Maybe. We’ll have to figure something out.
2. You’ll also notice a number of vehicles and AS fighters are introtech as well. It’s shorthand now for succession wars tech gear.
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Could some method be implemented to add the BV adjustments for TAG and C3? For example, if TAG is present, a radio dial appears for each eligible unit to designate tons of LRM ammo as semi-guided. Or check boxes appearing to identify which C3 network(s) a given unit is part of? Otherwise, the MUL output needs handwritten notes to account for the additional expenses.
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Not at this time
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2. You’ll also notice a number of vehicles and AS fighters are introtech as well. It’s shorthand now for succession wars tech gear.
Actually, that's my point. Sorry if it wasn't clear earlier... Since the conventional infantry listed in TW are Introductory tech, shouldn't the Taurian, Comstar, Marian, etc., versions of them also be Introductory tech, since the only differences are the number of troops?
(They are currently Standard tech in the MUL)
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I believer there is an error with the http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/9333/kamisori-light-tank-b as it is listed with a hefty price increase compared to the standard prime config with only a 1 damage increase at short range. Upon double checking the Rec Guide, it should have extra movement and TMM from the Supercharger.
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huh. so it does.
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Actually, that's my point. Sorry if it wasn't clear earlier... Since the conventional infantry listed in TW are Introductory tech, shouldn't the Taurian, Comstar, Marian, etc., versions of them also be Introductory tech, since the only differences are the number of troops?
(They are currently Standard tech in the MUL)
you can see from the jump infantry that the specialized squads (MG, flamer, SRM, LRM) carry support weapons due to their reduced jumping. since Taurian, CS, and Marian platoons differ in squad size and number, the quantity of support weapons changes. since they are not stock TW platoons, they are not considered introtech.
the current application of tech levels is an imperfect solution that will be fixed in some as yet undetermined way should the core books ever receive their long-awaited revisions.
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I believer there is an error with the http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/9333/kamisori-light-tank-b as it is listed with a hefty price increase compared to the standard prime config with only a 1 damage increase at short range. Upon double checking the Rec Guide, it should have extra movement and TMM from the Supercharger.
It should be the same price as the Prime configuration, or slightly higher due to the Supercharger.
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The Reptar EPT-C-1 MilitiaMech is missing a PV and Alpha Strike card. It does have a full record sheet in the back of Interstellar Players 3.
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It should be the same price as the Prime configuration, or slightly higher due to the Supercharger.
Nah, it should have its MV increased (to 16", off the top of my head).
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Bv and pv will be calculated by the team, thanks
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The Reptar EPT-C-1 MilitiaMech is missing a PV and Alpha Strike card. It does have a full record sheet in the back of Interstellar Players 3.
Huh. The never-ending game of whack a mole continues. Thank you
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The Black Knight 6-RR (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3826/black-knight-bl-6-rr) could use some availability clean-up. It has Mercs, Unique, and Extinct in the CW era, and Unique and Extinct in the Jihad era.
Don't know when the extinction should set in, but definitely shouldn't coexist with the other availabilities.
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Minor nitpick here, but the http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7696/centurion-cn10-j has the 'REAR' special as 'Rear'.
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GOL-1H Goliath is not listed as available to SLDF or Rim Worlds in the SL era.
SCP-1N Scorpion as well.
This is odd, since both were built for the SLDF, their factory world, Oliver, was in the Terran Hegemony at the time, and at they appear on some relevant RAT's from the era.
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Will look into that
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MUL seems to be a bit slow at the moment.
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It seems to have that issue on occasion.
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Noticing that there are no entries for the construction example Mobile Structures from TO:AUE. If y'all want, I'd like to start getting some of the stats from those (as are pertinent to the MUL) put together. Starting off with...
DropShip Mover
Tonnage: 11,328
Battle Value: 9,168
Cost: 4,573,544,000 C-bills
Rules Level: Advanced
Technology: Inner Sphere
Unit Type: Advanced Support - Mobile Structure
Unit Role: None
Date Introduced: Per TPTB
Era: Per TPTB
Notes: No record sheet.
Work Shown
Cost:
COST CALCULATION:
19 hexes x 4 levels x 150 CF = 11,400 CF
Structure Cost: 20,000 [Fortress] * 11,400 [Total CF] = 228,000,000
Engine: 10,000 [Fusion] * 304 [Engine Tonnage] = 3,040,000
Motive System: (10,000 [Ground] * 11,400 [CF] * 2 [MP]) * 19 [Hexes] = 4,332,000,000
Armor: 10,000 [IS Armor] * 38 [Armor Tonnage] = 380,000
Weapons and Equipment: (500,000 [Landing Deck] * 19) + (50,000 [Lift Hoist] * 12) + (2,000 [Searchlight] * 12) = 10,124,000
(228,000 [Structure Cost] + 3,040,000 [Engine Cost] + 4,332,000,000 [Motive System Cost] + 380,000 [Armor Cost] + 10,124,000 [Weapon and Equipment Cost]) * (1 + 11,400 [CF] / 100) = 525,957,560,000
Final Cost: 4,573,544,000 C-bills
Battle Value:
BATTLE VALUE CALCULATION:
-=Defensive Battle Rating=-
608 [Armor Factor] * 2.5 = 1,520
11,400 [CF] * 1.5 = 17,100
17,100 * 0.5 = 8,550
Defensive Battle Rating: 18,620
-=Offensive Battle Rating=-
19 [Hexes] * 50 = 950
950 * 0.65 [Speed Factor] = 617.5
8,550 [DBR] + 617.5 [OBR] = 9,167.5
9,167.5 (RUP) = 9,168
Fina Battle Value: 9,168
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Why is it that the http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7318/mongoose-gunslinger-mon-66gx model has MAS, but the http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4148/exterminator-ext-4c doesn't? They both have the same stealth technology, but one gets a bonus standing still and the other doesn't? Shouldn't the Exterminator get it as well?
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Why is it that the http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7318/mongoose-gunslinger-mon-66gx model has MAS, but the http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4148/exterminator-ext-4c doesn't? They both have the same stealth technology, but one gets a bonus standing still and the other doesn't? Shouldn't the Exterminator get it as well?
This has been fixed, thanks
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I am sorry if this is not the correct place to ask away, but there is a number of units that appear in the Periphery General tables in Tamar Rising, that do not appear in the MUL.
Tamerlan
Centipede
Turhan
Main Gaunche (XL versión)
Theseus (RL)
Cóndor Upgrade (3054)
Vengance Upgrade (3056)
Leopard CV (3056)
Unión 3055
Unión X
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Ilclan era books are still in the queue for review
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The Vigilant Corvette is not listed for the Free Worlds League in the MUL in Either the Star League or Early Succession Wars eras. There was the FWLS Samhain, which fought in the first Succession war.
As stated in First Succession War, p. 56, "Corey and Wazan"
Not sure if this counts, but the Taurians also had a New Syrtis Carrier during the Star League era that is not listed on the MUL.
As stated in Historical: Reunification War, pp. 67–68, (and possibly p 200).
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I was looking for the Generic Expandable Services Vehicle from Handbook House Davion on the MUL. It looks like they had an entry at one point, as MegaMekLab gives it the ID number 4207. Do these still need to be added, or have they been added previously and now removed or folded into something else?
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record 4207 no longer exists and that unit is not associated with HB:HD. will see about what happened to it
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I suspect the Boreas B (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/9219/boreas-cavalry-hovercraft-b) should have a starting availability later than Succession Wars, given that it is armed with a Bearhunter AC. :)
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looks like there's an error in the availability code. it's listed as F/X-F-E/F
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Delete this. Found out my answer another way. Thanks
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The line about being widely available only applies to the base model (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2445/partisan-heavy-tank), and originates from TRO 3039.
C3 did begin as a Kurita-exclusive piece of gear, but quickly spread to other realms during the clan invasion. Both the Lance Command and Company Command variants were built in Davion space.
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http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4111/eagle-egl-r9 Mounts nothing but Medium Lasers and PPCs per the 3075 (Age of War) record sheet, so it should have ENE like the R6 does.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4107/eagle-egl-r10 Also mounts mostly Medium Lasers and a Large Laser too so it should have ENE.
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fixed
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Blackwasp should be BlackWasp
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/390/blackwasp-mk-30
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Feature Requests:
1. Custom text titles for exported/printed lists
2. Era or Year in force list table on export (dropdown?)
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Agrotera AGT-1A's listed BV is 1608 but should probably be 1578.
1608 is the value it'd have if the arm AES weapon BV multiplier was 1.5, but that multiplier was errata'd to 1.25, making the final errat'd BV 1578 (MM,Mordel).
The AES discrepancy may affect other AES equipped units (e.g. Mortis 1A & 1P) though not all (e.g. PTR-7D, HCT-7R...).
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That seems like a logical explanation. Will confirm and check other units
Thanks
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Skill improvement:
Example: Xanthos XNT-6O
Base PV = 58
Rules:
...an additional increase of 1 more point (per point of Skill value increase) for
every 5 base PV the unit is worth after that.
MUL says 70 points on Skill 3. But it is only 6 points over 52.
'every 5 base PV' -> RAW should it be for every FULL 5 PV over the Base PV
Am I wrong? Or is the wording unclear? Or is the MUL wrong?
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the Improved-Skill PV Increase Table covers up to
48-52 for 10 PV.
53-57 is 11
58-62 is 12
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Page 20 of Field Manual ComStar suggests ComGuards 1st Army utilizes the Wolf Trap mech and Tokugawa tanks (along with other unnamed Draconis Combine designs), though these are not reflected in the book's RATs (nor in FMUpdates RATs).
Page 26 suggests the ComStar 4th Army utilizes Kanazuchi and Raiden Battle Armor.
(Page 34 suggests 8th Army utilizes Cestus and Thunder Hawk, both of which are available to ComStar in MUL.)
Given the sizes of ComStar Armies, perhaps this makes the units candidates to be listed in ComStar MUL?
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I am working on a Liao unit and want to add the Men Shen Omni prime variant. The base point for it is 55 points, that is more expensive than a Timberwolf Prime or a Templar prime assault mech. Is this a miscalculation? The points are for Alpha Strike
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I am working on a Liao unit and want to add the Men Shen Omni prime variant. The base point for it is 55 points, that is more expensive than a Timberwolf Prime or a Templar prime assault mech. Is this a miscalculation? The points are for Alpha Strike
TMM 3 is the big difference. High movers get a significant PV tax for their speed and dodgy-ness, especially those that still carry a significant load of armor like the Men Shen
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I would say yes, but the Stormcrow prime has same armor and structure, TMM 2, and does 5/5/2 and it's cost is 43. TMM 3 should not have a 12 point cost.
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The Men Shen Prime has IF and RCN, both of which cost additional points, and the higher TMM modifies the defensive numbers as well as the offensive numbers. The extra MV itself also comes with an additional cost. It is expected for TMM 3 units with good medium range damage to be more expensive than TMM 2 units with similar damage.
That said you appear to be correct that the points cost may be in error. Doing it up myself, I'm getting 54 PV for the Men Shen Prime. I'm unsure if my math is off or the Men Shen card is off, so my calculations are presented below. In either case, the gap between the two shrinks by one PV at most. It's hard to overstate 1) how effective and 2) how expensive the jump from TMM 2 to TMM3 (and the corresponding increased movement speed) is.
Men Shen Prime:
Attack Damage Factor: 4+(4x2)+1 = 13
Unit Size Factor: (2/2) = 1
Overheat Factor: 0
Offensive Special Ability Factor: 1 (IF1)
Total Offensive Value: 15
Movement Factor: (16/8) = 2
Defensive Special Abilities Factor: 0
Defensive Interaction Rating: [12 (Armor Factor 6x2) + 3 (Structure Factor 3x1)] * 1.75 (Defense Factor 1 + 0.75 for TMM 3) = 26.25
Total Defensive Value: 28.25
Ground Unit Force Bonus: 2 (RCN) + 1 (PRB) = 3
Agile Modifier: 8 (4 Medium range damage * 2 [TMM-1])
Final PV: 15 + 28.25 + 3 + 8 = 54.25, rounds normally to 54.
In contrast, the Stormcrow numbers appear to be accurate.
Stormcrow Prime:
Attack Damage Factor: 5+(5x2)+2 = 17
Unit Size Factor: (2/2) = 1
Overheat Factor: 0
Total Offensive Value: 18
Movement Factor: (12/8) = 1.5
Defensive Special Abilities Factor: 0
Defensive Interaction Rating: [12 (Armor Factor 6x2) + 3 (Structure Factor 3x1)] * 1.2 (Defense Factor 1 + 0.2 for TMM 2) = 18
Total Defensive Value: 19.5
Agile Modifier: 5 (5 Medium range damage * 1 [TMM-1])
Final PV: 18 + 19.5 + 5 = 42.5, rounds normally to 43.
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Ok, I tried to do the calculations last night and ended up doing it like 4 times and I was getting like 42, but I may have missed something.
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Ok, I tried to do the calculations last night and ended up doing it like 4 times and I was getting like 42, but I may have missed something.
it's useful when questioning the BV or PV of units to post your own calculations. We can't determine if you have found something if we can't see what you've done.
We'll put our top man on figuring out if there is an error here. if it's supposed to have a PV of 54, it would also mean MML's formula is off as well.
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it's useful when questioning the BV or PV of units to post your own calculations. We can't determine if you have found something if we can't see what you've done.
We'll put our top man on figuring out if there is an error here. if it's supposed to have a PV of 54, it would also mean MML's formula is off as well.
Based on my calculations, first place I'd look is to see whether it's rounding up or rounding normally for the final total. Seems like the most likely place if there is one.
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Defensive Interaction Rating: [12 (Armor Factor 6x2) + 3 (Structure Factor 3x1)] * 1.75 (Defense Factor 1 + 0.75 for TMM 3) = 26.25
round to the nearest half point in this step
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That would do it. I saw the note in errata to modify that section (clarifying wording) and mentally interpreted it as "remove this bit".
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At least three Clan units with Machine Gun Arrays (e.g. Lobo 3, Pariah C, Piranha 4) appear to have BVs as if their clan MGA bvs were calculated with the 0.67 multiplier for Inner Sphere MGAs listed in Tech Manual (~p.317) rather than the 0.1 multiplier listed for Clan MGAs in Tac Ops (p.197).
Here's an example calc of the Pariah C from Mordel (https://mordel.net/tro.php?a=cbm) that has a final value (2,227) matching the MUL (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5021/pariah-septicemia-c).
Note the MGA BVs in Model's calc are each 13.4 (5x4x0.67) rather than 2 (5x4x0.1) .
Other Clan MGA-wielding units may be affected -- the three listed are the first and only ones I've checked.
Alternatively, perhaps a TO typo?
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Hi, I hope this is the right place for this info!
I think it looks like the Jenner JR7-F should be added to ComStar's availability on MUL. In the CGL Battle of Tukayyid book on page 152, it describes anti-Elemental Level II formations: "These Level IIs consisted of three Shadow Hawk -2Ht and three Jenner -F BattleMechs, and would be assigned to a Division to respond to heavy concentrations of Elementals anywhere in that Division's operational area." But in the MUL entry below, ComStar is not listed.
Jenner JR7-F:
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1693/jenner-jr7-f
Thanks!
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I think it looks like the Jenner JR7-F should be added to ComStar's availability on MUL. In the CGL Battle of Tukayyid book on page 152, it describes anti-Elemental Level II formations: "These Level IIs consisted of three Shadow Hawk -2Ht and three Jenner -F BattleMechs, and would be assigned to a Division to respond to heavy concentrations of Elementals anywhere in that Division's operational area." But in the MUL entry below, ComStar is not listed.
Huh, that sounds like a cool level II to have, I totally missed that it was an option as the Jenner is not listed at all in the Light mech RAT for Comstar and even the special force building notes for the 1st Army 12th Division only mention the JR7-C as an option. I did find that text on p.162 of my 2nd printing Battle for Tukkayyid book (in the ShadowHawk SHD-2Ht readout info) so you'd think it would be mentioned elsewhere. Bit of an oddity that!
Speaking of oddities, I was building out an Assault level II from the same book and noticed that the Alpha Strike card on the MUL for the King Crab KGC-001 only has 4 structure points. Pretty sure it should have 8 structure like the other variants.
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1773/king-crab-kgc-001
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XL engine
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Oh wow, that's a big structure hit. Guess it's reflecting the greater chance of engine crits without altering crit tables and such? Well, thanks for letting me know it's not a mistake.
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Guess it's reflecting the greater chance of engine crits without altering crit tables and such?
correct
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From TRO 3145: Mercs, 1st paragraph of the entry-
The Raven merchant caste saw enough
potential in the Gossamer to broker an export
agreement with Clan Sea Fox, leaving the
Alliance to produce the Gossamer and the Foxes
to distribute it. It has proven a wildly successful
export in use throughout the Inner Sphere.
The only limit on sales explicitly mentioned is the Draconis Combine, yet it is not it mercs until ilClan with just the Dragoons.
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The Crab-27sl is listed as tech:Advanced but as best I can tell it's plain Standard Lostech. 🤔
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unsure why it was ever set as advanced. changed to standard
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Pike Support Vehicle (Plasma) BV
MUL BV: 892
Rec Guide BV: 1367
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Pike Support Vehicle (Plasma) BV
MUL BV: 892
Rec Guide BV: 1367
Thanks.
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Is there anything new about the Infantry BV changes resulting from the 2021 Errata of the TechManual (https://bg.battletech.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/TechManual-TM_22-Tech-InfTables-Rev2021.pdf)? Even though there are only some minor differences with some Units ( e.g http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1436/heavy-infantry , listed as 149 BV, calculated by hand and by MegaMek as 142 BV), there are quite big differences with others like the Clan Heavy Jump Infantry (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/609/clan-heavy-jump-infantry , listed as 136 BV, calculated by hand and by MegaMek as 278 BV)
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It’s on the to-do list. It requires a significant amount of by-hand calculation to get the numbers right and the people most adept at that sort of thing are busy with other projects.
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While not an errata line item per se, I wanted to clarify something as regards the way in which certain factions are - or are not -covered by their respective Master Unit List entries.
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For example: My understanding is that the post-Reaving Goliath Scorpions (be it the Imperio prior to the Hanseatic Crusade, or the Empire thereafter) are not covered by the IS Clan General list - since they aren't in the Inner Sphere or near Periphery, recent acquisitions in the Chaine Cluster notwithstanding. Nor are they covered by the Homeworld Clan General list either - since, whatever might be going on in the Homeworlds post-3095, the Scorpions are no longer a part of it.
So, the MUL listings for the Dark Age-era Imperio, or for the IlClan-era Empire, in and of themselves comprise the most complete set of units known to exist for the Scorpions at the present time of typing - to potentially include any Sea Fox unit types seized by the Scorpions as isorla in 3151, per Spotlight On: Hellion Keshik.
Is this correct?
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If so, I wonder if it might be possible to one day approach the Hanseatic League as a would-be MUL faction in a similar manner.
On the one hand, there is data in files such as Objectives: Periphery and Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade which notes certain units which existed in Hansa space at certain points in time. Some of these, such as the Manatee DropShip or the Surtur BattleMech, have been inherited by the Scorpion Empire (or upgraded by them, in the case of the Awesome C) in the wake of the conquest.
But on the other hand, while OTP:HC also notes that the Hansa had, by the eve of the invasion, reached the technology level of the Inner Sphere and near Periphery realms of c. 3067, the League itself remained at a significant remove from the likes of, say, the Magistracy of Canopus or the Taurian Concordat - much as their Goliath Scorpion nemeses were largely isolated from the Council of Six Clans (long-range Seeker quests notwithstanding) during this same time period.
So, might it one day be possible for the Hansa to be considered as a "separate" MUL faction: as in, one which would not be covered by the Periphery General lists (nor, indeed, cause any adjustments to be made to said lists) for the eras in which the League existed, much as has been the case for the Scorpions to date?
Of course, if even this would not make adding the Hansa as a MUL faction any more likely, fair enough...
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1) There are a few factions that are not attached to a general list. The most prominent of which are Mercs and the imperio / scorpions. It’s WYSIWYG on their list. They may field some other units not listed, but not in quantities that get them on the list (as is standard policy).
If you feel something is missing that is indicated to pre present in a canon source, we are happy to review it.
2) more would have to be published on Hansa previous to the crusade.
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1) There are a few factions that are not attached to a general list. The most prominent of which are Mercs and the imperio / scorpions. It’s WYSIWYG on their list. They may field some other units not listed, but not in quantities that get them on the list (as is standard policy).
If you feel something is missing that is indicated to pre present in a canon source, we are happy to review it.
So, as a further example:
The Wraith miniature offered in the Alpha Strike Boxed Set is not currently available on the IlClan Era Scorpion MUL listings - but it is listed as a Clan Sea Fox 'Mech in their IlClan Era MUL listings. (Ironically, that same box set also includes a Warhawk, which by the IlClan Era is produced only by the Scorpions!)
So, if a player wishes to (try to) paint one's recently-acquired Wraith mini (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,83309.0.html) in some manner of Scorpion colours, there'd be grounds for doing so (claimed as isorla from the Foxes, perhaps) on a gaming tabletop. But for the MUL itself to be modified, a future canon product would have to explicitly state that the Wraith was one of the 'Mech designs acquired as per SO:HK.
Would this be correct?
2) more would have to be published on Hansa previous to the crusade.
Is there a particular threshold the pre-Crusade Hansa would have to reach in order for this to happen?
Not that I expect the Hansa to be looked at again any time soon, granted...
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Any specifications obtained in the trial in the Chaine Cluster were *just* obtained. There hasn't been enough time to retool a factory to build anything new. Perhaps in the future, but I think it's a bit early to expect their unit availability lists to change.
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1) Players can paint any mech any scheme that they want. Paint has no effect of game rules. Do what makes you happy. Any justifications are player-generated.
But yes, for units to be added to factions, there needs to be canon justification (this includes material we have access to that is not public).
2) there are no thresholds, no.
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Is there a problem with the MUL at the moment? Connections to it are timing out and resulting in a 500 error.
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Seems to have worked itself out
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RE: Quasar Omnifighter PV
Howdy folks. Is there a reason why the Quasar Omnifighter has a BV on the MUL but no PV associated with the units?
Looking into the source material for the Quasar, the majority of the ASFs added with TRO: Golden Century are missing their PVs.
Thanks in advance!
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there is a small group of units that have recordsheets with BV but no PV. it's on our list
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http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4380/issus-2
Per the story "Trial of Possession" beginning on page 70 of Total Warfare, would the Issus 2 be available any earlier than the 3066 the MUL shows? I believe I have the first printing. I haven't verified it in any other printing, assuming canonicity isn't an issue.
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http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3700/annihilator-anh-1a
Is the Annihilator 1A perhaps accidentally being available to the Clans from Clan Invasion era onward until its extinction? One would imagine they stick to using the Annihilator C/C2, especially since it seems the old Star League tech variants went extinct by late Succession Wars. TRO3050U says the 1A is found among mercenaries but is rare.
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http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4380/issus-2
Per the story "Trial of Possession" beginning on page 70 of Total Warfare, would the Issus 2 be available any earlier than the 3066 the MUL shows? I believe I have the first printing. I haven't verified it in any other printing, assuming canonicity isn't an issue.
Under investigation. The story lists the Issus 2 as a prototype, which can make a difference
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3700/annihilator-anh-1a
Is the Annihilator 1A perhaps accidentally being available to the Clans from Clan Invasion era onward until its extinction? One would imagine they stick to using the Annihilator C/C2, especially since it seems the old Star League tech variants went extinct by late Succession Wars. TRO3050U says the 1A is found among mercenaries but is rare.
Also looking into this
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Here are a few random errata:
Prowler MTV (sealed) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2585/prowler-multi-terrain-vehicle-sealed) -- I think Comstar should only have this in LSW era? It's standard rules tech and TRO3085-Suppl. (p. 114) suggests its custom made by Mitchell Vehicles for the Explorer Corps
Devastator Tank (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/897/devastator-heavy-tank) and Schreck PPC (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2827/schrek-ppc-carrier) (introtech versions) -- should Comstar have access to these (in addition to existing factions) in ESW and LSW eras? Both are produced at Aldis-Terra and exported during the LSW era.
Mauna Kea (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2113/mauna-kea-command-vessel) (standard) ship -- looks like it's missing availability for IS General and Periphery General for LSW eras (has it before and after, and broad access is consistent with TRO3039 fluff).
Star Dagger S-2B (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8117/star-dagger-s-2b) fighter -- I think rules should = Introductory, according to FR:DCMS 2765 (p.20)
Ailette Zero-G (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3683/ailette-zero-g-engineering-exoskeleton-sqd4) exoskeleton (Sqd4) -- should the Taurians also have access? Produced by Taurus TI on Taurus, according to TR:VA
Tunnel Rat IV Combat Exoskeleton (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5302/tunnel-rat-iv-combat-exoskeleton-sqd4) -- this looks to be a duplicate MUL entry, relative to the Tunnel Rat IV Mining Exoskeleton entries. It's only mentioned in passing in the General Motors entry in Masters & Minions (p. 42), and its description is consistent with the TR:VA description of the Tunnel Rat IV on p. 229, which is covered by the Mining Exoskeleton MUL entries.
Lancelot LNC25-01sl (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5874/lancelot-lnc25-01sl) -- I think this one fell through the cracks with the following earlier errata. Rules level should be "Standard" as with the others (see ER: 2750, p. 136)
Changed tech level of CRB-27sl from advanced to standard
addendum: this error affected a handful of other units from ER:2750
PXH-1Kk
WVE-5Nsl
DV-6Md
TDR-5Sd
BLR-1Gd
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the prowler definitely shouldn't be general during the LSW with those fancy MPLs. Lancelot also changed.
looking into the rest
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Consultation.
Without putting pressure on anything, is there an estimated date for when they will update the MUL with the Last Sharpell? Or will they make a larger Update adding the Rec Guide 33?
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http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4380/issus-2
Per the story "Trial of Possession" beginning on page 70 of Total Warfare, would the Issus 2 be available any earlier than the 3066 the MUL shows? I believe I have the first printing. I haven't verified it in any other printing, assuming canonicity isn't an issue.
So there’s a bit of a calculus that goes with units like this. The MUL date for established units like the mentioned Issus 2 is the production date. The Issue that appears in the short story was using pre production versions of both the ATM and heavy laser and is named as a prototype and isn’t considered the debut in which it became usable by clan toumans.
Note that this is different than one of the prototypes in one of the XTROs. That receives fluff and stats. It is also differentiated from a mentioned prototype that has distinctly different stats enumerated in the text.
It’s a fine line we take on a case by case basis. Thanks for the inquiry as we hadn’t considered this particular case yet
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I think RG33 created some errata...
Issue: RG33 lists new Partisan ADT (fuel cell) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2434/partisan-air-defense-tank-cell) tanks as fighting for the AFFS on Markesan on 3072 (p. 8), but it also says it was only produced on Nanking, which was under Wobbie control since July 3071 (Total Chaos, p. 235). Somehow I feel like the Wobbies would not be keen on exporting to the AFFS, nor the AFFS keen on ordering Wobbie tanks to their super-secret base, at this time.
Suggestion: Move the Partisan ADT (cell) Intro date to 3070 or 3071.
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Yup. We’ve determined an alternate solution.
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http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3700/annihilator-anh-1a
Is the Annihilator 1A perhaps accidentally being available to the Clans from Clan Invasion era onward until its extinction? One would imagine they stick to using the Annihilator C/C2, especially since it seems the old Star League tech variants went extinct by late Succession Wars. TRO3050U says the 1A is found among mercenaries but is rare.
turns out the 1A's availability was determined before Klondike was ever published and it was decided to spread it since the homeworlds needed annihilators. now that we have the C/C2, the 1A could probably use a trim.
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Was Andurien meant to lose the Sabre SB-27 going from DA to ilClan? Or did it accidentally get cleared with the other League splinters when the League reconstituted?
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sure seems that way. fixed
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Not sure if this was posted already, but...
The AS cards for aerospace fighters on MUL seem to incorrectly list 1/4MV as effects of engine crits, while AS Commander's Edition pg. 184 states that that's for small craft and dropships.
Fighters, according to the same page, lose half their thrust off one hit, and go to thrust 0 and crash/shut down off the second engine hit.
The new blank fighter cards in the back of the AS CE list engine crits as "1/2 MV" in accordance with the above.
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About the J.Edgar (Kurita). The only two factions with acess to it are the DC, and for some reason, the TC, but there is nothing in the entry that suggest that. Could it be a mistake?
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About the J.Edgar (Kurita). The only two factions with acess to it are the DC, and for some reason, the TC, but there is nothing in the entry that suggest that. Could it be a mistake?
A mistake and a very old one as far as we can tell. Nice catch
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A mistake and a very old one as far as we can tell. Nice catch
Cool! :smilie_happy_thumbup:
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Harasser (LFE) seems to have its speed and TMM copied over from other RG33 variants. Should be 36"h with TMM 5. All other stats, including PV, are correct.
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Kage Light Battle Armor (DEST) incorrectly has LECM as an ability. This variant's equipment is simply one small laser per trooper (rather than on a squad support mount) with nothing else.
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Harasser (LFE) seems to have its speed and TMM copied over from other RG33 variants. Should be 36"h with TMM 5. All other stats, including PV, are correct.
bleh. thought i fixed that one. corrected.
Kage Light Battle Armor (DEST) incorrectly has LECM as an ability. This variant's equipment is simply one small laser per trooper (rather than on a squad support mount) with nothing else.
must have gotten the [ECM]'s abilities copied over. removed.
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Loki Mk II (Hel) D
Has the JMPS1 special with no jump movement listed.
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cool, another one i swear i caught already.
the boy now flies
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Devastator Tank (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/897/devastator-heavy-tank) and Schreck PPC (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2827/schrek-ppc-carrier) (introtech versions) -- should Comstar have access to these (in addition to existing factions) in ESW and LSW eras? Both are produced at Aldis-Terra and exported during the LSW era.
yes
Mauna Kea (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2113/mauna-kea-command-vessel) (standard) ship -- looks like it's missing availability for IS General and Periphery General for LSW eras (has it before and after, and broad access is consistent with TRO3039 fluff).
The LRM and LRT variants have ISGen, PGen, and Mercs. No reason the base model shouldn't. There isn't otherwise a good way to explain how it proliferated so quickly during the Clan Invasion when production never picked back up.
Star Dagger S-2B (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8117/star-dagger-s-2b) fighter -- I think rules should = Introductory, according to FR:DCMS 2765 (p.20)
ya
Ailette Zero-G (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3683/ailette-zero-g-engineering-exoskeleton-sqd4) exoskeleton (Sqd4) -- should the Taurians also have access? Produced by Taurus TI on Taurus, according to TR:VA
yes, from the Jihad and on.
Tunnel Rat IV Combat Exoskeleton (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5302/tunnel-rat-iv-combat-exoskeleton-sqd4) -- this looks to be a duplicate MUL entry, relative to the Tunnel Rat IV Mining Exoskeleton entries. It's only mentioned in passing in the General Motors entry in Masters & Minions (p. 42), and its description is consistent with the TR:VA description of the Tunnel Rat IV on p. 229, which is covered by the Mining Exoskeleton MUL entries.
Bit of missed cleanup. we didn't get the sheets for the Tunnel Rat IV until 2014. By then, the placeholder entry from M&M had long been lost in the wash. It's been put to rest.
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At least three Clan units with Machine Gun Arrays (e.g. Lobo 3, Pariah C, Piranha 4) appear to have BVs as if their clan MGA bvs were calculated with the 0.67 multiplier for Inner Sphere MGAs listed in Tech Manual (~p.317) rather than the 0.1 multiplier listed for Clan MGAs in Tac Ops (p.197).
Here's an example calc of the Pariah C from Mordel (https://mordel.net/tro.php?a=cbm) that has a final value (2,227) matching the MUL (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5021/pariah-septicemia-c).
Note the MGA BVs in Model's calc are each 13.4 (5x4x0.67) rather than 2 (5x4x0.1) .
Other Clan MGA-wielding units may be affected -- the three listed are the first and only ones I've checked.
Alternatively, perhaps a TO typo?
I'm going back and dredging some missed items like this one.
There is a discrepancy between MML's BVs for clan MGA and what we have on the MUL (it potentially affects eleven units). We'll check it out.
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At least three Clan units with Machine Gun Arrays (e.g. Lobo 3, Pariah C, Piranha 4) appear to have BVs as if their clan MGA bvs were calculated with the 0.67 multiplier for Inner Sphere MGAs listed in Tech Manual (~p.317) rather than the 0.1 multiplier listed for Clan MGAs in Tac Ops (p.197).
Here's an example calc of the Pariah C from Mordel (https://mordel.net/tro.php?a=cbm) that has a final value (2,227) matching the MUL (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5021/pariah-septicemia-c).
Note the MGA BVs in Model's calc are each 13.4 (5x4x0.67) rather than 2 (5x4x0.1) .
Other Clan MGA-wielding units may be affected -- the three listed are the first and only ones I've checked.
Alternatively, perhaps a TO typo?
Errata from the third printing of TM standardizes the MGA's BV multiplier at .67 for both IS and Clan (see errata doc pg 34). TO:AUE needs to be corrected
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I apologize if this is the wrong venue for this but why doesn’t the Free Worlds League have access to the Harasser (LFE) in IlClan? I would think it’d have availability just like it did in DA and with the other harasser variants.
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accidental omission
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GOL-1H Goliath is not listed as available to SLDF or Rim Worlds in the SL era.
SCP-1N Scorpion as well.
This is odd, since both were built for the SLDF, their factory world, Oliver, was in the Terran Hegemony at the time, and at they appear on some relevant RAT's from the era.
Added for SLDF Regular, Terran Alliance, and Rim World (Terran Corps).
The Vigilant Corvette is not listed for the Free Worlds League in the MUL in Either the Star League or Early Succession Wars eras. There was the FWLS Samhain, which fought in the first Succession war.
As stated in First Succession War, p. 56, "Corey and Wazan"
Not sure if this counts, but the Taurians also had a New Syrtis Carrier during the Star League era that is not listed on the MUL.
As stated in Historical: Reunification War, pp. 67–68, (and possibly p 200).
reminder to myself to look at this again
I was looking for the Generic Expandable Services Vehicle from Handbook House Davion on the MUL. It looks like they had an entry at one point, as MegaMekLab gives it the ID number 4207. Do these still need to be added, or have they been added previously and now removed or folded into something else?
Readded. I knew something weird had happened because my personal MML image set had the GESV art.
Agrotera AGT-1A's listed BV is 1608 but should probably be 1578.
1608 is the value it'd have if the arm AES weapon BV multiplier was 1.5, but that multiplier was errata'd to 1.25, making the final errat'd BV 1578 (MM,Mordel).
The AES discrepancy may affect other AES equipped units (e.g. Mortis 1A & 1P) though not all (e.g. PTR-7D, HCT-7R...).
Fortunately, this affected under ten units. It appears they were missed when the others were corrected.
From TRO 3145: Mercs, 1st paragraph of the entry-
The Raven merchant caste saw enough
potential in the Gossamer to broker an export
agreement with Clan Sea Fox, leaving the
Alliance to produce the Gossamer and the Foxes
to distribute it. It has proven a wildly successful
export in use throughout the Inner Sphere.
The only limit on sales explicitly mentioned is the Draconis Combine, yet it is not it mercs until ilClan with just the Dragoons.
We added the standard variant to mercs for all available eras. The XL is fluffed as a Raven unit so the availability was pared back significantly
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Partisan Heavy Tank (Cell) RG33: no faction availability listed
Scorpion Light Tank (Armor) RG33: no faction availability listed
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populated
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Not sure if this was posted already, but...
The AS cards for aerospace fighters on MUL seem to incorrectly list 1/4MV as effects of engine crits, while AS Commander's Edition pg. 184 states that that's for small craft and dropships.
Fighters, according to the same page, lose half their thrust off one hit, and go to thrust 0 and crash/shut down off the second engine hit.
The new blank fighter cards in the back of the AS CE list engine crits as "1/2 MV" in accordance with the above.
Good news / bad news: good news is you are correct. Bad news is we can’t fix the template at present.
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Unit : Jump Platoon (Rifle, Ballistic)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1722/jump-platoon-rifle-ballistic
Issue : wrong Battle Value. 79 -> 89BV (see attachments)
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You are correct. Fixed
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Units : Almost all "basic" Clan Infantry Units from TW/TM (Clan foot point , Clan jump point , etc.) .
Issue : Battle value is too high compare Inner Sphere variants. Same weapons, same movement, same armor , but LESS number of troopers.
For example Jump Platoon (Rifle, Ballistic) http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1722/jump-platoon-rifle-ballistic
21 troopers -> 89 BV
At the same time Clan Jump Point (Rifle, Ballistic) http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/614/clan-jump-point-rifle-ballistic
20 troopers -> Currenty 121 BV . Correct 85 BV (see attachments)
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I think the difference is accounted for by assuming the clanner infantry has a divisor of 2 instead of 1.
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I think the difference is accounted for by assuming the clanner infantry has a divisor of 2 instead of 1.
Yeah , noticed in Megamek . But infantry units with Armor Divisor more than "1" counts as an "Advanced".
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this is going to require a deeper investigation about assumptions made regarding infantry equipment. we thank you for bringing this to our attention.
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The clan infantry currently on the MUL assume the divisor 2 clan armor kit. They will be switched to advanced rules. We will discuss how to deal with the generic clan infantry presented in TW (which will have a lower bv)
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this is going to require a deeper investigation about assumptions made regarding infantry equipment. we thank you for bringing this to our attention.
Actually, I took a deep dive into the infantry on the MUL recently, and there look to be a multitude of issues, some of which might be tough to deal with given the nature of the TW rules and the MUL setup.
Some examples:
--some units have their BV listed assuming Gunnery = 4, Anti-Mech (Piloting) = 5, but the standard CI would have BV commensurate with G4/AM8
--some units have the correct BV in the G4/AM8 slot, but then lists the G4/AM5 BV at the top of the page [I'm guessing this is a MUL default, so don't know what to do about this]
--there is also the discrepancy that TW suggests to assume G4/AM5 for Mechanized units that cannot get Anti-'Mech training, but G4/AM8 for other motive types that can get training but don't have it. This makes BV calcs for Mechanized inf weird and ambiguous (to me, at least)
--there are some BV that are just calculated wrong on the MUL. Some of these look to be because of a bug in how MML calculates some special BV adjustments (they should be additive according to TacOps, but looks like MML has them included as multiplicative).
C-Bill costs have similar issues.
I can PM you a spreadsheet I put together that should have corrected BV and C-bill values for the units on the MUL (and some others, including Generic-Kit Clan infantry). I have notes in there that hopefully make it legible to others besides me, and the formulas are also hopefully transparent enough for whomever to check the math.
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Because of technical reasons, the MUL should be using 4/5 as the basis for BV for all units.
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Unit : Jump Platoon (Rifle, Ballistic)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1722/jump-platoon-rifle-ballistic
Issue : wrong Battle Value. 79 -> 89BV (see attachments)
What tonnage did you get for this unit?
Bottom Line: Techmanual construction rules cannot replicate the CI units in Total Warfare. Using decimal damage values drilled down to individual troopers simply does not easily calculate "1 damage per X troopers, round up." MegaMek uses TM, so there will always be discrepancies compared to the TW baselines.
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--there are some BV that are just calculated wrong on the MUL. Some of these look to be because of a bug in how MML calculates some special BV adjustments (they should be additive according to TacOps, but looks like MML has them included as multiplicative).
This should be addressed to the MegaMek team for review and possible correction. Links in my sig.
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Because of technical reasons, the MUL should be using 4/5 as the basis for BV for all units.
That's what I figured. In that case, I think all but a handful of the TRO3085 infantry should probably have its Tech Manual-consistent BV listed in the G4/P8 slot of the BV table and the G4/P5 listed up top (which would be the equivalent of Anti-'Mech trained infantry BV in most cases).
This should be addressed to the MegaMek team for review and possible correction. Links in my sig.
Will do! Though I'll try and PM you my work, too, since some of the discrepancies are way down in the weeds (and likely code).
On another note, here's what I found for RG33-related errata:
Technical issues:
1. Looks like Scorpion Tank C entry is missing from the MUL
2. Replace "IS Clan General" with "IS General" for Scorpion (RAC) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/9557/scorpion-light-tank-rac), Late Rep and Partisan HT (Refit) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/9569/partisan-heavy-tank-refit), Early Rep eras
3. Harasser (Heavy Ferro) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/9550/harasser-missile-platform-heavy-ferro) -- delete Jihad era (Intro date = 3091)
4. Update source for Gyrfalcon 5 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7694/gyrfalcon-5) to RG33.
Availability judgement calls:
5. Despite the light gausses, pretty sure the Partisan HT (Light Gauss) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/9568/partisan-heavy-tank-light-gauss) should have Fed Suns availability, not FWL availability.
From RG33: "With Kirklin’s new-found flexibility regarding power plants, elite units willing to splurge can now field a new directfire variant utilizing an XL fusion engine and a quartet of light Gauss rifles."
6. For the Kallon-Nanking Partisan ADTs...
--I'm not sure the WoB should have access to any of the following variants prior to the Jihad: Company Command (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2435/partisan-air-defense-tank-company-command), Lance Command (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2435/partisan-air-defense-tank-company-command), XL (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2441/partisan-air-defense-tank-xl). Only Fed Suns has access in these eras, suggesting they weren't exported, so WoB would only get them once they take Nanking (3071).
--For Company and Lance Command variants, should WoB have access to these at all? Seems weird they'd waste resources producing them when they use C3i.
7. Karnov (BA Stealth) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/9561/karnov-ur-transport-ba-stealth) -- MUL availability seems to imply that RotS exports these from Terra starting in the Dark Age. Only issue is that it is very difficult to export from Terra after 3135 (Fortress Wall). Maybe the exporting should begin in an earlier era?
8. Should Hunter Tank (Cell) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/9562/hunter-light-support-tank-cell) also have availability for Vesper Marches, Tamar Pact in ilClan era (like most other Lyran-produced DA units)?
9. Harasser (Heavy Ferro) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/9550/harasser-missile-platform-heavy-ferro) and (LFE) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/9552/harasser-missile-platform-lfe) -- should these two have the same (or very similar) availabilities throughout? Specifically...
--Should RotS have access to both variants in Early Rep era? (or does Irian start producing later than Andurien?)
--Should CC get access to LFE variant in Early Rep and/or keep it in ilClan? (would be consistent with Heavy Ferro access)
--Should Canopus keep access to LFE variant in ilClan? (because Taurians do)
--Should SLDF Wolves get access to Heavy Ferro variant in ilClan? (because they have access to the fancier LFE variant)
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That (two different BVs used for infantry) is not technically possible. The MUL will use 4/5 for all units.
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That's what I figured. In that case, I think all but a handful of the TRO3085 infantry should probably have its Tech Manual-consistent BV listed in the G4/P8 slot of the BV table and the G4/P5 listed up top (which would be the equivalent of Anti-'Mech trained infantry BV in most cases).
Unfortunately, a basic TM infantry unit can't have an AM skill better than 8; they have to be specifically given AM kits, which is assumed to be part of all TW CI units.
With the technical issue of MUL needing to baseline at 4/5, I'm curious how many TRO units become illegal at MUL's basic setting and how MUL corrects for that. Can error notes be added to MUL outputs that identify when a max AM8 unit has a better value?
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I have a list of infantry without AM. It’s pretty small.
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That (two different BVs used for infantry) is not technically possible. The MUL will use 4/5 for all units.
Sorry if I wasn't clear. I meant that, once one has the correct BV for a non-Anti-'Mech trained infantry unit, that value could be placed in the G4/P8 slot of the BV table on the unit's MUL entry, and (1/0.85) times that value would be what the MUL uses at the top of the entry (i.e., the equivalent BV for G4/P5).
The alternative would be to place the G4 BV value in the G4/P5 slot on the table regardless of whether the unit is Anti-'Mech trained or not. Now that I think about it more, this is likely the better solution since the "P" column of the BV table does not matter for non-AM-trained infantry, and since AM Skill = 5 is the "Regular" skill for AM-trained infantry (as per TW).
Either way, some infantry on the MUL have their "base" BV in the 4/8 slot of the table, while others have it in the 4/5 slot, so it needs to be standardized one way or another.
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This is a topic we’ve been looking at on and off for a bit now. I did some preliminary work on which units are affected this fall. The platform is the platform and we have to work out how to bypass those problems in a way that guarantees, as much as possible, that we won’t have to redo it in a few months when something we hadn’t considered surfaces. We’re aware of the issue (as well as our potential options) and will announce when we have a solution.
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On another note, here's what I found for RG33-related errata:
Technical issues:
1. Looks like Scorpion Tank C entry is missing from the MUL
Still working out a piece of data
2. Replace "IS Clan General" with "IS General" for Scorpion (RAC) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/9557/scorpion-light-tank-rac), Late Rep and Partisan HT (Refit) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/9569/partisan-heavy-tank-refit), Early Rep eras
hey i only did it once this time
3. Harasser (Heavy Ferro) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/9550/harasser-missile-platform-heavy-ferro) -- delete Jihad era (Intro date = 3091)
burp. date got moved after i entered the preliminary data.
4. Update source for Gyrfalcon 5 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7694/gyrfalcon-5) to RG33.
the shrapnel article is much more comprehensive so we'll leave it there
Availability judgement calls:
5. Despite the light gausses, pretty sure the Partisan HT (Light Gauss) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/9568/partisan-heavy-tank-light-gauss) should have Fed Suns availability, not FWL availability.
From RG33: "With Kirklin’s new-found flexibility regarding power plants, elite units willing to splurge can now field a new directfire variant utilizing an XL fusion engine and a quartet of light Gauss rifles."
it's not a pavlovian response. FS and merc were omitted by mistake
6. For the Kallon-Nanking Partisan ADTs...
--I'm not sure the WoB should have access to any of the following variants prior to the Jihad: Company Command (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2435/partisan-air-defense-tank-company-command), Lance Command (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2435/partisan-air-defense-tank-company-command), XL (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2441/partisan-air-defense-tank-xl). Only Fed Suns has access in these eras, suggesting they weren't exported, so WoB would only get them once they take Nanking (3071).
Believe it or not, before the wobbies went full nuclear on the inner sphere, people sold the Protectorate Militia gear. Trying to read the tea leaves like that isn't usually the best approach
--For Company and Lance Command variants, should WoB have access to these at all? Seems weird they'd waste resources producing them when they use C3i.
the protectorate militia used standard c3
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=&HasBV=false&MinTons=&MaxTons=&MinBV=&MaxBV=&MinIntro=&MaxIntro=&MinCost=&MaxCost=&HasBFAbility=c3s&MinPV=&MaxPV=&BookAuto=&FactionAuto=&Factions=48&AvailableEras=247&AvailableEras=14
plus
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=&HasBV=false&MinTons=&MaxTons=&MinBV=&MaxBV=&MinIntro=&MaxIntro=&MinCost=&MaxCost=&HasBFAbility=c3s&MinPV=&MaxPV=&BookAuto=&FactionAuto=&Factions=55&AvailableEras=247&AvailableEras=14
7. Karnov (BA Stealth) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/9561/karnov-ur-transport-ba-stealth) -- MUL availability seems to imply that RotS exports these from Terra starting in the Dark Age. Only issue is that it is very difficult to export from Terra after 3135 (Fortress Wall). Maybe the exporting should begin in an earlier era?
later. text has the foxes wanting to expand export after the ilclan trial was over. i must have done a bad copy/paste on the review sheet
8. Should Hunter Tank (Cell) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/9562/hunter-light-support-tank-cell) also have availability for Vesper Marches, Tamar Pact in ilClan era (like most other Lyran-produced DA units)? [/size]
no
9. Harasser (Heavy Ferro) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/9550/harasser-missile-platform-heavy-ferro) and (LFE) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/9552/harasser-missile-platform-lfe) -- should these two have the same (or very similar) availabilities throughout?
not necessarily
Specifically...
--Should RotS have access to both variants in Early Rep era? (or does Irian start producing later than Andurien?)
no
--Should CC get access to LFE variant in Early Rep and/or keep it in ilClan? (would be consistent with Heavy Ferro access)
--Should Canopus keep access to LFE variant in ilClan? (because Taurians do)
data entry issues. when the site is running slow sometimes it times out and fails to catch some things.
--Should SLDF Wolves get access to Heavy Ferro variant in ilClan? (because they have access to the fancier LFE variant)
they have enough other options
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The Hierofalcon C is listed as a Striker. According to Rec Guide 03, it should be a Sniper.
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reassigned
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Is it intentional that the 3055 Union never becomes available to Mercs, despite being IS General since the Civil War?
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Hi there, I think this got lost in the holiday shuffle:
I think it looks like the Jenner JR7-F should be added to ComStar's availability on MUL. In the CGL Battle of Tukayyid book on page 152, it describes anti-Elemental Level II formations: "These Level IIs consisted of three Shadow Hawk -2Ht and three Jenner -F BattleMechs, and would be assigned to a Division to respond to heavy concentrations of Elementals anywhere in that Division's operational area." But in the MUL entry below, ComStar is not listed.
Jenner JR7-F:
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1693/jenner-jr7-f
Thanks!
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What tonnage did you get for this unit?
Bottom Line: Techmanual construction rules cannot replicate the CI units in Total Warfare. Using decimal damage values drilled down to individual troopers simply does not easily calculate "1 damage per X troopers, round up." MegaMek uses TM, so there will always be discrepancies compared to the TW baselines.
About BV calculation: I'm also double-checked them using rules from TechManual . Same results - 89 BV, 4 tons .
About CI in megamekLab: I'm also noticed some problem with Battle Value (not 100% solution : use "Show BV Calculation" button. UPD : fixed in version 0.49.17) and weapon damage in Record Sheets .
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About BV calculation: I'm also double-checked them using rules from TechManual . Same results - 89 BV, 4 tons .
About CI in megamekLab: I'm also noticed some problem with Battle Value (not 100% solution : use "Show BV Calculation" button) and weapon damage in Record Sheets .
It's important to ensure you are using the most current version of MegaMekLab. There are continuous fixes and improvements every release. Especially if comparing 0.48.0 to 0.49.17
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Hi there, I think this got lost in the holiday shuffle:
I think it looks like the Jenner JR7-F should be added to ComStar's availability on MUL. In the CGL Battle of Tukayyid book on page 152, it describes anti-Elemental Level II formations: "These Level IIs consisted of three Shadow Hawk -2Ht and three Jenner -F BattleMechs, and would be assigned to a Division to respond to heavy concentrations of Elementals anywhere in that Division's operational area." But in the MUL entry below, ComStar is not listed.
Jenner JR7-F:
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1693/jenner-jr7-f
Thanks!
added
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About BV calculation: I'm also double-checked them using rules from TechManual . Same results - 89 BV, 4 tons .
About CI in megamekLab: I'm also noticed some problem with Battle Value (not 100% solution : use "Show BV Calculation" button) and weapon damage in Record Sheets .
I've never gotten the damage values for anything besides pure rifle units to match up to TW values using TM construction rules. Thus, the basic CI units on MUL are different units than you get coming out of TM/MML.
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Is it intentional that the 3055 Union never becomes available to Mercs, despite being IS General since the Civil War?
no records indicate accidental omission
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I've never gotten the damage values for anything besides pure rifle units to match up to TW values using TM construction rules. Thus, the basic CI units on MUL are different units than you get coming out of TM/MML.
Infantry is weird and we're stuck with the weirdness at present. Replacing or modifying said units lies outside of the MUL or rules teams' purview. If players want to build their own infantry in TM, they are welcome to do so.
Experimentation and / or discussion about said infantry weirdness can be directed to the appropriate boards.
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Hello,
I came across some odd roles for several mechs in a lance I was painting up & was told to offer suggestion/question them here.
Previous Thread:
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,83680.0/topicseen.html
#1 - Every Dervish is a "Missile Boat" except the 6Mr which is a Brawler.
The 6Mr still packs Twin LRM10's & the only weapon change is swapping SRM2's for MPLs.
Meanwhile the 9D & 11DK are packing MMLs/ERMLs & Streaks/Re-Eng Lasers respectively & don't have the Brawler Tag with much more close in firepower.
Suggestions:
The 6Mr seems like a Missile Boat still to me w/ 20 LRMs & 4 lasers compared with other Dervishes (6M, 7D, 8D)
The 9D & 11DK very much seem more like Brawlers w/ the same 20 LRMs but much better Close Range firepower.
#2 - Every PhoenixHawk is a "Skirmisher or Striker".
I'm questioning/suggesting that some models feel like a Sniper roll should be applied w/ Twin-ERLL/LPPC or ERPPC/TC.
For example, 3D, 3K, 3M, 6D, or 4W.
#3 - Every Javelin is a "Striker", but, the 11A is mounting an LRM-15 instead of close range weapons.
This seems like it should be a "Missile Boat" like the Valkyrie models.
#4 - Griffins: Lots of different Snipers/MissileBoats/Skirmishers here.
But the 3 that stood out to me as being classified "inaccurately"
3M - With LRM20 doing 12 damage on average & ERPPC doing 10, it feels like this should be a Missile Boat instead of Sniper.
5M - With Light Gauss & LRM-10 this on the other had feels more like a Sniper than a Missile Boat.
5K - With LRM10, LPPC, & ERML, this "Missile Boat" seems like it should be a "Skirmisher"
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Is there any problems with the Karnov UR Transport entry? It puts its era as "Era Unknown (4000 - 4000)"
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1759/karnov-ur-transport (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1759/karnov-ur-transport)
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Like the goblin, the exact year of origin is unknown
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Lola II is showing Star League in Exile availability, indicating they weren't all scrapped, diverted to Taurians or turned into Caspars and at least one went on the Exodus. Any details on this strange duck?
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Probably pulled out of mothballs. The 3057r text notes that the taurian surprises suggested that all had been scrapped was put into doubt. May have been one. May have been more than one. Unless someone writes about it there won’t ever be a concrete explanation
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Another Lola issue. The Lola III is showing IS General Availability in Early Succession War but the only example of a Lola III used by a Great House I could find was the FWLS Bucharest. Even that is problematic given the table in Liberation of Terra 2 p. 114 that no SLDF WarShips defected to a House, but the specific mention of a Lithium-Fusion battery negates that being a type which was supposed to be a Lola I or II.
Suggestion: Replace IS General Availability with FWL
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Goliath and Scorpion Mechs still not available to SLDF during the Star League, despite manufacture on Oliver, which was a TH world and presence on relevant RAT's.
Also, Tau Wraith has the LMAS and C3I needed to reflect its listed implants in TRO 3085, but not the LPRB and RCN abilities that should come with the sensory implants it has. A cost adjustment may be necessary based on the rules in Interstellar Operations or from just adding the abilities and their Force Bonuses during conversion. Not sure.
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Goliath and Scorpion Mechs still not available to SLDF during the Star League, despite manufacture on Oliver, which was a TH world and presence on relevant RAT's.
I see what I added - SLDF Regular, Terran Hegemony, and Rim World Terran Corps
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I see what I added - SLDF Regular, Terran Hegemony, and Rim World Terran Corps
Oh, great! I just checked and they're there. I checked a few days ago and they weren't added yet.
Thank you.
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Clan Hell's Horses seems to lose access to the standard Mars Assault Vehicle during LSW-LosTech specifically. Appears to be a mistake, methinks?
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yup
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The Buffalo BFFL Hovertruck has actually no AS stats on the MUL.
In Shrapnel 14 -> Campaign Water Raid p.190+ the Buffalo gets some stats.
Can we get a full AS Card on the MUL?
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To reopen the Scorpion Tank C box from RG33, should the Escorpion Imperio/Scorpion Empire also get the Scorpion Tank C as they would have garrison Scorpion Tanks around and their worlds are now Clan (or Clan-adjacent) worlds?
Thanks in advance!
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not at this time
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Tunnel Rat IV Mining Exoskeleton [Battle Claw/GL] (Sqd6) AS card has incorrect damage. Should be 1/0/0 (currently is 0*/1/0).
Tunnel Rat IV Mining Exoskeleton [Armored Glove/LMG] (Sqd6) should be 1/1/0 (currently is 1/0*/0).
Admittedly I don't know how to do the conversions myself, but this matches what MegaMek says, what the other manipulator variant of the Tunnel Rat IV has, and what other similarly-armed suits get.
Nighthawk PA(L) Mk. XXII BV is incorrect for all three squad sizes. Unlike AS stats I know how to calculate BA BV by hand, and the numbers on the MUL disagree with my hand calculations, TRO 3075, and MegaMek (once swapping the fancy Mauser 960 out for an Auto-Rifle) for all three. The BV per suit ends up very nearly identical (10.5 for the XXI versus 10.54 for the XXII) resulting in squads of 55/74/95 BV after rounding, identical to the Mk. XXI BVs. If the figures on the MUL were calculated automatically with tools, it could be that they had an AP weapon set other than an Auto-Rifle.
All Constable variants disagree with MegaMek's BV cost (MUL is a bit higher for each) but I didn't do any deeper investigation - might be worth a double-check. Nothing in MegaMek's BV breakdown for them look weird to me.
Also some availability inquiries of my own, hopefully a fair trade for the above:
All variants of all 3058 IS OmniMechs except the Raptor have fairly wide availability, and while usage falls off a bit by the ilClan era, are still at least available to the Draconis Combine, Mercenaries, and at least one or two other factions. The Raptor has very narrow availability, and is only available to the Draconis Combine starting in the Early Republic era. Given that TRO 3058 says that it "is one of the most prolific of any of the Inner Sphere OmniMechs" and that "such prolific use has seen the Raptor propagate to some extent beyond Combine boundaries" I feel like its availability is worth another look. I get that out of the original IS Omnis it's the only one built at only one site in one nation, but I think it's possible it should have slightly wider availability just via pure volume of production and use.
Out of three very similar but very regional BA prototype variants, Kage Light Battle Armor C and Infiltrator Mk. II Battle Armor Coral Intent seem to have reached mass production (losing the Unique faction) starting in the Late Republic era, while Trinity Medium Battle Armor (Ying Long BC3) goes extinct instead. I guess it never reached production like the other two? This surprised me because it has the least "non-standard" names out of the three.
Anyway, thanks for your hard work!
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Good work on the MUL; this may be a case where the TRO itself disagrees with another Sourcebook, but:
The Soarece Superheavy Tank (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5778/soarece-superheavy-mbt) is listed as Extinct in the Late Succession War (Renaissance) starting in 3020.
However, according to XTRO: Succession Wars I, where it appears, it was not taken out of service until Shiro III was overrun by the FWL and Grumman Amalgamated was able to produce the Ontos for the FWL. This TRO also cites it as Obsolete/2915, only 9 years after it began production.
However, according to the official Wolf's Dragoons sourcebook, the FWL had not overrun Shiro III until after 3012 - a century later. If the words from the TRO are taken literally (rather than the Obsolete design quirk), that means that the production of the Soarece likely only stopped around 3017 if not later - "... over a hundred had been built by the time House Marik finally captured Shiro III, home of Grumman Amalgamated. With the capture of the factory that still produced the venerable (and, ultimately, far superior) Ontos tank, orders for the Şoarece plummeted. A few years later, production of the superheavy vehicle was finally cancelled." directly from the Soarece entry in the TRO.
This means that surely it is not extinct(!) by 3020...
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Good work on the MUL; this may be a case where the TRO itself disagrees with another Sourcebook, but:
The Soarece Superheavy Tank (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5778/soarece-superheavy-mbt) is listed as Extinct in the Late Succession War (Renaissance) starting in 3020.
However, according to XTRO: Succession Wars I, where it appears, it was not taken out of service until Shiro III was overrun by the FWL and Grumman Amalgamated was able to produce the Ontos for the FWL. This TRO also cites it as Obsolete/2915, only 9 years after it began production.
However, according to the official Wolf's Dragoons sourcebook, the FWL had not overrun Shiro III until after 3012 - a century later. If the words from the TRO are taken literally (rather than the Obsolete design quirk), that means that the production of the Soarece likely only stopped around 3017 if not later - "... over a hundred had been built by the time House Marik finally captured Shiro III, home of Grumman Amalgamated. With the capture of the factory that still produced the venerable (and, ultimately, far superior) Ontos tank, orders for the Şoarece plummeted. A few years later, production of the superheavy vehicle was finally cancelled." directly from the Soarece entry in the TRO.
This means that surely it is not extinct(!) by 3020...
As noted in the XTRO errata thread, the assumption that the Shiro III text is being referenced is from the 3010s is incorrect. Production ceased in noted year of obsolescence.
However, it was agreed that a stay of execution until the Clan Invasion is appropriate. The last examples were definitely scrapped or abandoned by 3050.
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Tunnel Rat IV Mining Exoskeleton [Battle Claw/GL] (Sqd6) AS card has incorrect damage. Should be 1/0/0 (currently is 0*/1/0).
Tunnel Rat IV Mining Exoskeleton [Armored Glove/LMG] (Sqd6) should be 1/1/0 (currently is 1/0*/0).
Admittedly I don't know how to do the conversions myself, but this matches what MegaMek says, what the other manipulator variant of the Tunnel Rat IV has, and what other similarly-armed suits get.
The PV guru will look into this. Note that MML isn't infallible and its values can sometimes be off.
Nighthawk PA(L) Mk. XXII BV is incorrect for all three squad sizes. Unlike AS stats I know how to calculate BA BV by hand, and the numbers on the MUL disagree with my hand calculations, TRO 3075, and MegaMek (once swapping the fancy Mauser 960 out for an Auto-Rifle) for all three. The BV per suit ends up very nearly identical (10.5 for the XXI versus 10.54 for the XXII) resulting in squads of 55/74/95 BV after rounding, identical to the Mk. XXI BVs. If the figures on the MUL were calculated automatically with tools, it could be that they had an AP weapon set other than an Auto-Rifle.
All Constable variants disagree with MegaMek's BV cost (MUL is a bit higher for each) but I didn't do any deeper investigation - might be worth a double-check. Nothing in MegaMek's BV breakdown for them look weird to me.
investigating
All variants of all 3058 IS OmniMechs except the Raptor have fairly wide availability, and while usage falls off a bit by the ilClan era, are still at least available to the Draconis Combine, Mercenaries, and at least one or two other factions. The Raptor has very narrow availability, and is only available to the Draconis Combine starting in the Early Republic era. Given that TRO 3058 says that it "is one of the most prolific of any of the Inner Sphere OmniMechs" and that "such prolific use has seen the Raptor propagate to some extent beyond Combine boundaries" I feel like its availability is worth another look. I get that out of the original IS Omnis it's the only one built at only one site in one nation, but I think it's possible it should have slightly wider availability just via pure volume of production and use.
The original and only plant was turned into radioactive kindling during the Jihad and never rebuilt. The Raptors in service in modern eras are all that remain, closest to where the major component stockpiles would be located. This is the fate of many units that have been out of production since the 3060s and 70s.
Out of three very similar but very regional BA prototype variants, Kage Light Battle Armor C and Infiltrator Mk. II Battle Armor Coral Intent seem to have reached mass production (losing the Unique faction) starting in the Late Republic era, while Trinity Medium Battle Armor (Ying Long BC3) goes extinct instead. I guess it never reached production like the other two? This surprised me because it has the least "non-standard" names out of the three.
life's funny like that sometimes. the Ying Long BC3 never reached full production and the prototypes were lost.
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So in this post (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,80686.msg1974779.html#msg1974779) Mordel states that the Kiso CommandMech gains the Basic Fire Control ability, and its point value drops because of that.
However, I'll note that the RS shows the correct value for the Kiso having the Advanced Fire Control. Also, there are two other Kiso variants, both with BVs that match having Advanced Fir Control. One could be an error, three seems to be a pattern. I talked to Mordel about it, and he mentioned talking to the dev on the MUL Discord, but there was no mention of the other two variants. So is this something we should look at?
I'd also mention that the fluff in TR3075 gives the Kiso a targeting and tracking system (pg 210 of the second printing). It seems odd to me that a later variant would just rip it out. Perhaps we should add it back in and return the BV to 940?
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The PV guru will look into this. Note that MML isn't infallible and its values can sometimes be off.
investigating
The original and only plant was turned into radioactive kindling during the Jihad and never rebuilt. The Raptors in service in modern eras are all that remain, closest to where the major component stockpiles would be located. This is the fate of many units that have been out of production since the 3060s and 70s.
life's funny like that sometimes. the Ying Long BC3 never reached full production and the prototypes were lost.
Thank you for the response. I guess I forgot about that little "Jihad" thing and what it would do to production of various things.
Regarding the Alpha Strike stats, I don't usually take anything MegaMek says as law until I can verify it myself, but the GL variant's 1 damage at medium range is eyebrow-raising given all it has is one 3-hex weapon.
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Is the availability on the Karnov UR Transport (Artillery) (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1756/karnov-ur-transport-artillery) correct? It seems weird that it would be "Unique" but also around in almost any era.
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So in this post (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,80686.msg1974779.html#msg1974779) Mordel states that the Kiso CommandMech gains the Basic Fire Control ability, and its point value drops because of that.
However, I'll note that the RS shows the correct value for the Kiso having the Advanced Fire Control. Also, there are two other Kiso variants, both with BVs that match having Advanced Fir Control. One could be an error, three seems to be a pattern. I talked to Mordel about it, and he mentioned talking to the dev on the MUL Discord, but there was no mention of the other two variants. So is this something we should look at?
I'd also mention that the fluff in TR3075 gives the Kiso a targeting and tracking system (pg 210 of the second printing). It seems odd to me that a later variant would just rip it out. Perhaps we should add it back in and return the BV to 940?
The dev was talked to and they should remain as basic
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The dev was talked to and they should remain as basic
Just the Kiso CommandMech, or all of them? (as I said, TR3075 actually gives them a targeting and tracking system in the fluff).
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For all three, yes. BV will have to be recalculated because command console in MML assumes AFC, which is not the case.
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The AC/10 Vedette in the FWL faction that fought at Helm has a Fusion engine according to the Helm sourcebook (it's how they freed up the tonnage to upgrade to an AC/10), but retains the EE special rule.
The Fusion Vedette also has ~33% more armor (128 points vs' a normal Vedette's 96 in CBT), meaning the Alpha Strike Card on the MUL should have another armor bubble (if I'm doing my brainmath correctly).
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correct on both accounts. fixed.
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The Phoenix Hawk 1b special has an ER PPC and an ER Large Laser.
I think it should have the OVL special.
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2492/phoenix-hawk-pxh-1b-special
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The heat-modified long-range damage value is the same as the unmodified damage value. Therefore it does not get OVL.
The Phoenix Hawk 1b special has an ER PPC and an ER Large Laser.
I think it should have the OVL special.
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2492/phoenix-hawk-pxh-1b-special
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The heat-modified long-range damage value is the same as the unmodified damage value. Therefore it does not get OVL.
Thank you!
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Carrier Class Dropship is missing - BV, Rules Level, and Role.
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3901/carrier (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3901/carrier)
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every dropship from 3057r is http://masterunitlist.info/Source/Details/256/technical-readout-3057-revised-edition
there are no extant recordsheets.
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Will there ever be? ???
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Unknown (I know as much as anyone else outside of like five people). Nor is this a space to discuss potential products
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Rog, thanks... out!
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The Hanseatic Crusade Campaign book lists the Executioner in the Scorpion Empire's RAT table, however they do not have Executioner available in their MUL for Dark Age or ilClan era. Not sure if this is intentional or a slip off so I figured out I should point it out just in case. As both a Bear and a Scorpion fan I'd love for Scorps to have Execs like they do in the Hanseatic Crusade, it's old enough that it would make sense for them to still have some.
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Another one about the AC/10 Vedette - is the 1/1/1 damage profile on the AS card actually correct for a tank with an AC/10 and an MG?
Additionally, the Behemoth is on the FWL RAT tables extensively in the House Arano handbook (The Aurigan Coalition) and the Condor is as well (though rarer probability than the Behemoth).
Recommend making both vehicles available to the FWL faction in the MUL based on this RAT (in the Late Secession War - Renaissance era).
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Was the WSP-3L's PV adjusted when the damage profile was corrected downward based on single heat sinks not doubles?
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Looking at the record sheets and the conversion reports in MegaMekLab, I think both versions of the Koryu (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1819/koryu-submarine-military, http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1818/koryu-submarine-civilian) should have a single point of armor on their Alpha Strike cards instead of none.
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It has BAR 3 armor.
26 * .3 = 7.8, which is less than 15 and so rounds normally to 0.
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Just saw the reply to the rules question too.
Thanks Sartris!
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The RCL-1M Dig King MiningMech Mod (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7172/dig-king-rcl-1m-miningmech-mod) has the following special abilities:
AFC,ENE,ENG,FC,MEL,SRM1/1
Given it has ammo aboard (hence the SRM special ability), it can't have the ENE ability. Presumably that should be EE, and then FC should be deleted, or ENE should be deleted
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Should the Soarece Supherheavy Tank have the LG special rule? That affects all kinds of things, so I am simply not sure - I can see an argument either way (LG makes it quite big indeed!)
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Should the Soarece Supherheavy Tank have the LG special rule? That affects all kinds of things, so I am simply not sure - I can see an argument either way (LG makes it quite big indeed!)
No, superheavy vehicles do not get LG.
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Thank you kindly!
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BNC-12S Banshee is listed as Tech Base: Inner Sphere. It should be Mixed.
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http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6729/gray-death-strike-suit-harjel-sqd4
Is listed as IS Techbase even though it probably should be mixed.
The reason being that BattleArmor HarJel appears to be functionally equivalent to Clan chassis.
Furthermore, looking at the suit's record sheet in RS3145NTNU, the Firedrake and Light TAG are marked with (IS), which seems to indicate the suit and rest of equipment is Clan (since record sheets usually mark equipment that isn't from the baseline techbase).
(Also suspect the unit in MML is incorrect, being wholly IS)
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Should the Goliath Scorpions have access to the Crimson Langur? TRO 3067 has them as one of four clans confirmed to have fielded it (p. 116), and Camo Specs has two Langurs in different Scorpion galaxies. The Scorpions also Absorbed two sets of Fire Mandrills in 3073 (Wars of Reaving, p. 127, 129), and they seem largely allied to the two clans that built it through the Reaving.
(I asked something similar in another thread so apologies if this isn’t right here either).
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The text refers to a single example in the possession of the Scorpions, which is not sufficient for inclusion. If text points to post-absorption possession, we will be happy to take it into consideration. As it stands, there is no evidence that the Scorpions had it in any real numbers at any point.
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http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6729/gray-death-strike-suit-harjel-sqd4
Is listed as IS Techbase even though it probably should be mixed.
The reason being that BattleArmor HarJel appears to be functionally equivalent to Clan chassis.
Furthermore, looking at the suit's record sheet in RS3145NTNU, the Firedrake and Light TAG are marked with (IS), which seems to indicate the suit and rest of equipment is Clan (since record sheets usually mark equipment that isn't from the baseline techbase).
(Also suspect the unit in MML is incorrect, being wholly IS)
Harjel is clan-only, yeah. Will change
BNC-12S Banshee is listed as Tech Base: Inner Sphere. It should be Mixed.
Correct
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LAM Availability
During the Late Succession Wars, ELH had multiple units of LAMs, per The Mercenary's Handbook ORBATs, yet Pixies and Stingers are only ComStar, IS General, and Wolf's Dragoons in that era. As of the Clan Invasion, they become WoB only. Wasp LAMs are defined as extinct after the Early Succession Wars.
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The MUL doesn't list WoB as having access to Protomechs. However, WoB is known as the only Inner Sphere users of Protomechs. BattleTech Interstellar Operations Alternate Eras lists WoB as the only users of the Inner Sphere Protomech Interface. BattleTech Necromo Nightmare lists the WoB as having access to the Erinyes, Orc, Satyr, Chrysaor, Hydra, Roc, Gorgon, and Minotaur.
Can we get these Protomechs added to the WoB availability for the Jihad?
On one hand, the program was in limited numbers. On the other hand, their Protomech program is supposed to be a big step in their VDNI tech.
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LAM Availability
During the Late Succession Wars, ELH had multiple units of LAMs, per The Mercenary's Handbook ORBATs, yet Pixies and Stingers are only ComStar, IS General, and Wolf's Dragoons in that era. As of the Clan Invasion, they become WoB only. Wasp LAMs are defined as extinct after the Early Succession Wars.
We usually don’t add merc availability based on one outfit having them. However, TRO 3085 does state in the Phoenix Hawk LAM entry that healthy numbets of LAMs were attached to some SLDF regiments. Many of these regiments became mercs after Exodus. We’ll extend availability to Mercs up to the clan invasion. After that they become very rare outside of WoB hands. They’re all gone by 3081 (pour one out for Gibson)
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The MUL doesn't list WoB as having access to Protomechs. However, WoB is known as the only Inner Sphere users of Protomechs. BattleTech Interstellar Operations Alternate Eras lists WoB as the only users of the Inner Sphere Protomech Interface. BattleTech Necromo Nightmare lists the WoB as having access to the Erinyes, Orc, Satyr, Chrysaor, Hydra, Roc, Gorgon, and Minotaur.
Can we get these Protomechs added to the WoB availability for the Jihad?
On one hand, the program was in limited numbers. On the other hand, their Protomech program is supposed to be a big step in their VDNI tech.
No reports exist of them operating anywhere except on Necromo (allegedly. maybe.)
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No reports exist of them operating anywhere except on Necromo (allegedly. maybe.)
Clanners running false flag score-settling ops? Say it ain't so!
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The MUL doesn't list WoB as having access to Protomechs. However, WoB is known as the only Inner Sphere users of Protomechs. BattleTech Interstellar Operations Alternate Eras lists WoB as the only users of the Inner Sphere Protomech Interface. BattleTech Necromo Nightmare lists the WoB as having access to the Erinyes, Orc, Satyr, Chrysaor, Hydra, Roc, Gorgon, and Minotaur.
Can we get these Protomechs added to the WoB availability for the Jihad?
On one hand, the program was in limited numbers. On the other hand, their Protomech program is supposed to be a big step in their VDNI tech.
Those Protos were captures that had been experimentally modified; they were never intended to represent solid WoB access to such machines.
- Herb
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Is there a particular MUL faction listing that would be advised for use with the Green Ghosts, as they are detailed on pages 92 to 94 of the Interstellar Expeditions sourcebook?
Indeed, would there be a difference in terms of which MUL listing would be appropriate for the post-3080 "blood disk" Ghosts, as opposed to the "standard" incarnation of this elusive unit?
Or are those the kind of questions that cannot be answered until - or unless - more data is published on this faction in a future publication?
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We only have covered and uncovered factions. Groups that fall into the latter category are left to people's imagination.
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Kit Fox C lists 3050 as its availability year, but still pops up as available in Late Succession War LosTech, at least for Clan Diamond Shark: http://masterunitlist.info/Era/FactionEraDetails?FactionId=8&EraId=255
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It should not have anything previous to 3050. Attempts at time travel have been halted.
Thanks
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Gauntlet Omnimech is listed as being available in the Early Republic era (3081 - 3101). However, it was not introduced until 3128, at the tail end of the Late Republic Era.
Solution: Remove Early Republic availability for the Gauntlet.
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Cyclops CP-10-Z has AC 1/1/- listed, despite having an AC20 with four tons of ammo. I haven't done the math on the Overheat yet, either (sorry!). OV2 seems like a lot off the top of my head...
EDIT: heat looks right, just the AC question then
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Cyclops CP-10-Z has AC 1/1/- listed, despite having an AC20 with four tons of ammo. I haven't done the math on the Overheat yet, either (sorry!). OV2 seems like a lot off the top of my head...
EDIT: heat looks right, just the AC question then
heat affects the AC values.
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Thanks! I don't know where the current onversion rules are so I am probably talking out of turn. Sorry!
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Alpha Strike Companion
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Should the Hi-Scout Drone (NapFind) have CT0.015 based on the entry in TRO: 3039?
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Alpha Strike Companion
Thanks! I will start running conversions through there before posting here. I didn't know they were still valid!
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Should the Hi-Scout Drone (NapFind) have CT0.015 based on the entry in TRO: 3039?
The smallest CT Alpha Strike currently cares about is 0.5
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Sorry, another drone question (trying to fix the entries in MegaMek).
PathTrak has the SRCH special, but neither the record sheet in RS: 3039 or the TRO 3039 entry list any equipment that should provide it. Since it's built as a support vehicle, it should have to have explicit searchlight equipment to get that special, correct?
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1531/hi-scout-drone-pathtrak
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As it turns out, all vehicles receive SRCH. It’s a special treat
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As it turns out, all vehicles receive SRCH. It’s a special treat
That makes the bit in the Tech Manual about the handheld lights and support vees make a lot more sense! Thank you!
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I have erred. The Hi-Scout drones are support vehicles. Those do not automatically get SRCH. The ability has been removed from the PathTrak
Apologies for the confusion
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I'll forgive you this time. :cheesy: Thanks for the clarification!
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Realized I forgot to supply page numbers for this....
Issue:
Tau Wraith is missing the LPRB and RCN abilities it should have from the Multi-Modal Cybernetic Eyes (Sensory Implants) listed on pg.207 of TRO: 3085 that describe a 2 Hex active-probe ability. Multi-Modal Sensory Implants grant LPRB and RCN per pg. 147 of Alpha Strike Commander's Edition.
Fix:
Add LPRB and RCN to Tau Wraith. Recalculate PV if necessary. The MUL already has the C3I ability from the Boosted Communications Implant.
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PAB-27 Exoskeleton
This appears to be the "Federated Suns (3067+)" (TO:AUE p. 130) armor according to AToW p. 293 and IO:AE p. 31. Adjust dates and sources accordingly.
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PAB-27 Exoskeleton
This appears to be the "Federated Suns (3067+)" (TO:AUE p. 130) armor according to AToW p. 293 and IO:AE p. 31. Adjust dates and sources accordingly.
There is a PAB-27 body armor, and a PAB-27 exoskeleton enhancement. The exoskeleton enhancement came later.
M&M p42
"the company was able to take advantage of the Combat Training Center to field test a new exoskeleton enhancement to the PAB - 27, introducing it in time for infantry units to use it in defending New Syrtis from the Capellan invasion."
The MUL Federated Suns (3067+) is using the PAB-27 body armor, available in 3067. The PAB-27 exoskeleton unit is for the enhancement menitoned above, which was attacked in June 3069, and thus the intro date for that unit.
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http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5288/trinity-medium-battle-armor-ying-long-bc3-plasma-sqd4
Think there may be a problem with the name. The Ying Long with man-portable plasma rifle does not have battle armor C3.
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correct! fixed
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http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8493/elemental-battle-armor-ap-gauss-sqd5
This one is listed for Star League Smoke Jaguars for ilClan era, even though they are covered by IS Clan General list.
Judging by other Elemental configurations, it should be available to Scorpion Empire.
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that's a weird error. should indeed be scorpions
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Is it deliberate the Raven Alliance utilizes squad-4 Elementals?
Because they also get squad-5 Elementals via IS Clan General list.
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/956/elemental-battle-armor-ap-gauss-sqd4
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yes. the outworlds military contingent is largely separated from the ravens and don't use clan formations, but do utilize some clan equipment
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Duh, didn't think of that. Makes sense. Thanks!
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I've been looking over the mech lists in the Battle pf Tukkayid (3rd printing) and comparing it to Comstar's Clan Invasion entry in the MUL. Three Royal mechs appear in the mech lists but don't appear in the MUL.
They are
Shadow Hawk SHD-2hb
Griffin GRF-2N
Catapult CPLT-C1b
Should these be available to Comstar from the Early Succession War through to the Clan Invasion?
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yeah
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The ARC-9R Archer is listed as Standard tech level. It should be Advanced due to having Extended LRMs.
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ELRMs become standard tech in 3083
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I thought they didn't become Standard until 3145.
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Von Luckner Heavy Tank VNL-K65W BV does not match BV in Rec. Guide ilClan Vol. 32. http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/9482/von-luckner-heavy-tank-vnl-k65w
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TRO3075 (p. 180) says of the Galahad GLH-2D:
"A handful survived in ComStar’s secret weapons cache, but until the arrival of the Clans the design essentially vanished from the battlefield."
Should the ComStar get GLH-2D available through Succession Wars? Currently the mech is noted as extinct.
And/or should the Clans still retain the GLH-2D in their secondline forces (beyond Early Succession Wars)? The sentence makes it seem they might have sort of reintroduced it to the Inner Sphere, though then again that might refer to the Clan Glass Spider (Galahad), or perhaps the ComStar utilizing the Galahad during the Battle of Tukayyid.
Battle of Tukayyid Supplemental does not list the Galahad in ComStar or Clan rosters though, i so perhaps that is a strike against the mech being available circa 3050.
On the Galahad GLH-1D, TRO Succession Wars (p. 84) notes pirates having used some in 3026, though apparently the last known one was retired by 3038. Though currently listed as extinct, perhaps the GLH-1D thus barely survived Late Succession Wars and might warrant "Unique" and Pirate availabilities for 3020-3049 time period?
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http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1600/icarus-ii-icr-1s
The Icarus II ICR-1S is noted as surviving through the Succession Wars in militia units in TRO3075 p. 260.
Oddly, currently it appears the mech is entirely lacking Late Succession Wars and Clan Invasion availability in MUL, not even extinct.
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http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1600/icarus-ii-icr-1s
The Icarus II ICR-1S is noted as surviving through the Succession Wars in militia units in TRO3075 p. 260.
Oddly, currently it appears the mech is entirely lacking Late Succession Wars and Clan Invasion availability in MUL, not even extinct.
did not exist in sufficient numbers to be assigned to anyone. units that have gaps in availability are part of this group - there are not many. the ICR-1S is one of the few, but probably the most prominent example.
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I see. Thanks for the explanation, makes sense.
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Sorry if this is not the correct thread, but there is a mistake either in the Record Sheets 3150 or the MUL, about the Shogun C 2.
The RS says the BV value is 2914, but at MUL the value is 2029. I don't know the construction rules so don't know which one is correct, although I'm inclined to believe the RS one is the correct one, as it is a clan-tech mech, and both C and C 3 have similar values.
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this is the correct place and so is your observation. unsure where the 2029 value came from but it is now fixed, thanks
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this is the correct place and so is your observation. unsure where the 2029 value came from but it is now fixed, thanks
Thanks to you! Happy to help
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I see the BV at MUL is now 2767. I suppose that means the value at the RS is also wrong?
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Hi there! In Era Report 3062, bottom of pg. 149, the RAT shows that Clan Steel Viper, Clan Nova Cat, and Clan Diamond Shark have the Canis and Thunder Stallion, but it is not available to them on MUL. Clan Wolf also has the Canis on that same page (but not the Thunder Stallion).
Canis: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/459/canis
Thunder Stallion: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3224/thunder-stallion
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I see the BV at MUL is now 2767. I suppose that means the value at the RS is also wrong?
No the RS is fine I was looking at the wrong data. I’ll update it when I get to a real computer
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I just noticed that the BVs listed for all the Aries variants on the MUL differ from the ones printed in TRO 3145. Was that a mistake or did the BV calculations get changed at some point?
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https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=33847.msg810575#msg810575
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No the RS is fine I was looking at the wrong data. I’ll update it when I get to a real computer
Thanks Sartris for all the good work.
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A time traveling Gunslinger GUN-2ERDr MechWarrior appears to have founded the Republic of the Sphere before its appointed time.
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1350/gunslinger-gun-2erdr
Noticed the Republic faction page leads to Jihad era availability, after filtering out IS General this guy was left. I would think RotS is not meant to appear in Jihad era at all, or have link to that era in their faction page.
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Looks like it was inadvertently added to jihad when other eras were populated for RotS. Removed
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Hi there! In Era Report 3062, bottom of pg. 149, the RAT shows that Clan Steel Viper, Clan Nova Cat, and Clan Diamond Shark have the Canis and Thunder Stallion, but it is not available to them on MUL. Clan Wolf also has the Canis on that same page (but not the Thunder Stallion).
Canis: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/459/canis
Thunder Stallion: http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3224/thunder-stallion
"secondary invader" is sort of a mishmash. the Canis and Thunder Stallion were only produced for a very short time and only in the homeworlds their position on the RAT was likely meant to reflect low quantity salvage. if a proper coyote RAT appeared in this volume it would feature the canis more prominently.
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http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5861/grasshopper-reynolds
Erroneously classified as Inner Sphere tech base. Should be mixed, has pure Clan laser armament.
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4871/prometheus
Same here too, mixed tech.
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http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5861/grasshopper-reynolds
Erroneously classified as Inner Sphere tech base. Should be mixed, has pure Clan laser armament.
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4871/prometheus
Same here too, mixed tech.
Thanks.
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The MUL lists the Luxor and Naga class vessels as available to the SLDF in Exile in the early SW period, but no later. TRO3057Revised is pretty clear on the numbers that survived (or didn't). Would the MUL be in error or can 3057R be assumed to be missing information? It looks like 3057R errata isn't being collected or listed anywhere I could find so sorry if this has been corrected already.
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Naga: Mothballed units aren't in use, which doesn't count as in use. 3057r is written from ComStar's PoV so they wouldn't be aware of every ship taken on the Exodus that were later destroyed in the Pentagon Civil War or mothballed after the fact. If lists were limited to explicit text, they would be very small indeed. Sounds like something someone should write about it.
Luxor: This is explicit. Changed to extinct after the Star League era
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http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2428/parash
A minor art thing. The Parash and Parash 2 entries appear to use the Parash 3's image from XTRORepublic3, rather than the original image from TRO3085. The Parash 3 is noted to have different looking head assembly in the XTRO for what it is worth.
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http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2825/schrek-ppc-carrier-armor
Moved to https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=5927.msg2002470#msg2002470 (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=5927.msg2002470#msg2002470) per Sartris' comment below.
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BV on the MUL follows the RS. Please report the BV error in the appropriate product thread
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Reposting MUL report from Nerroth that I accidentally deleted in the Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade errata thread:
Apologies in advance: I'm not sure if this is a MUL issue, or one with this volume itself.
Original release PDF, Page 19 - Personalities
Over on the Master Unit List website, it is possible to create custom Alpha Strike Unit Cards - say, by accounting for the Skill value of the pilot.
In this case, I tried generating a Unit Card for Khan Magon Scott's Warhawk Prime. The base unit is shown as having a Point Value of 52; the Khan is noted as having an AS pilot Skill of 1, which when fed into the MUL card generator results in a Point Value of 82. However, in OTP:HC itself, the PV is marked as 51 (81).
Further, on the MUL Unit Card, one of the Specials listed for this OmniMech is IF0*. However, this Special is not among those listed over on OTP:HC.
Which version of this unit would be correct?
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The Warhawk's IF0* was missing on the MUL for a time, when Hanseatic Crusader came out. The MUL is currently correct (and the increased PV due to having IF0*).
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Thanks for the clarification. (I was wondering if the "missing" IF0* and the difference in BV were connected in this instance...)
So as to avoid duplication, is it enough for the above errata answer to be left here; or would it need to be (re-)posted in the OTP:HC thread, so that it is not overlooked if or when that volume is being revised?
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The Clantech Pulverizer (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7648/pulverizer) has a note of "Reintroduced in 3149" after going extinct in the Late Succession War era, but actually has availability listed for Clan Snow Raven / Raven Alliance starting from Jihad era up. Presumably this should only be Dark Age / ilClan? Alternately, the reintroduction date in the note is incorrect and should be changed, but at least one of those seems wrong.
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KCG-000b King Crab (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1772/king-crab-kgc-000b)
According to this unit's MUL entry, Clan Goliath Scorpion had access to it through to the time of their Abjuration from the Homeworlds. At this time of typing, it is not available to the Imperio/Empire thereafter.
However, on page 6 of Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade, the Seeker Galaxy RAT has this unit listed as one of the 'Mechs liable to be rolled for by players seeking (ahem) to use that branch of the Imperio's touman - at least as of 3140.
Is this enough to adjust the unit's MUL entry so as to grant the Imperio access to it? And if so, might enough samples of this unit survive the Hanseatic Crusade to make it available to the Scorpion Empire through to the ilClan Era?
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I know of Objective Raids'...tenuous grasp on canonicity. Is the following enough to get the Achilles DropShip added to at least the Smoke Jaguar's invasion list?
Objective Raids: Page 113, Schuyler, Galileo Instruments
"The Clans favor the Achilles, however, and production of that Dropship will probably be accelerated."
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I know of Objective Raids'...tenuous grasp on canonicity. Is the following enough to get the Achilles DropShip added to at least the Smoke Jaguar's invasion list?
Objective Raids: Page 113, Schuyler, Galileo Instruments
"The Clans favor the Achilles, however, and production of that Dropship will probably be accelerated."
this will require some investigation. the prediction of production is not production, but saying the clans favor the achillies and not bringing them in quantity for the invasion needs a look.
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JES III Missile Carrier (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6669/jes-iii-missile-carrier):
Listed introduction date for the base variant is 3133, and no variant is introduced earlier. However, both TRO 3145 (p. 64) and, less importantly, the old MWDA pilot cards (p. 59 of the compilation) say the JES III was introduced shortly before the Blackout. TRO 3145: "JES released the JES III just before the Blackout."
The intro date should probably be 3132.
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Unit: Annihilator C "Gausszilla"
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/44/annihilator-c-gausszilla
Issue : Wrong (?) Faction Availability (probably "unique")
Historical: Operation Klondike , p173
Notable MechWarriors
Star Colonel Bryan Kabrinski: Sharing the same name as
his biological grandfather, Star Colonel Kabrinski was a legend in
his time—outspoken and innovative, he led his Clan to victory
after victory during the Golden Century, winning for the Ghost Bears several OmniMech designs as well as more than a score of
genetic legacies. Even more legendary, however, was the ’Mech
he supposedly commanded in his most important trials—known
as “Gausszilla,” it was an Annihilator that somehow mounted an
astounding five Gauss rifles. The ’Mech itself was lost to history, but
his exploits at its controls continue to fuel tall tales throughout the
Clan homeworlds and the Ghost Bear Dominion.
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The Scarecrow UCU-F4 erroneously has the ECM keyword. It is equipped with a Chameleon LPS as opposed to a normal stealth system and does not have an ECM unit equipped to gain the ECM keyword.
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The XL Schrek PPC Carrier has heavy ferro fibrous armor which is listed as a 3069 invention but MUL shows availability in 3058. I had someone check RG32 to see if it actually has heavy ferro and that it's not a Sarna error.
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/9480/schrek-ppc-carrier-xl
It's just if this gets fixed I will be sad because the XL Schrek carrier had an Alpha Strike stateline I liked to use in faction restricted tournaments. That extra 2 inches of movement came in handy so often. Unlikely, but would I be able to get a 4/6 XL Schrek PPC Carrier with the same faction availabilities as the erroneous one except that it has regular ferrofibrous instead?
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Update: Heavy FF is listed as a Lyran Commonwealth prototype in 3056 according to ph 29 IOAE - theoretically this is possible, though it being available to the Draconis Combine and Capellans and Blakists wouldn't make sense then, and it should be listed as Experimental in MUL, no? Experimental rules level for 3058 at least
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Looks like I made another mistake in formatting my Tau Wraith request. Forgot the link. Sorry.
Tau Wraith: http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3166/tau-wraith
Tau Wraith is missing the LPRB and RCN abilities it should have from the Multi-Modal Cybernetic Eyes (Sensory Implants) listed on pg.207 of TRO: 3085 that describe a 2 Hex active-probe ability. Multi-Modal Sensory Implants grant LPRB and RCN per pg. 147 of Alpha Strike Commander's Edition.
Fix:
Add LPRB and RCN to Tau Wraith. Recalculate PV if necessary. The MUL already has the C3I ability from the Boosted Communications Implant.
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Error in the alpha strike card for the Skimmer(http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5065/skimmer).
Movement should be 34" rather than 26"
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I think the Raider and Raider II 'Mechs should be Experimental rules rather than Standard, as per TO:AUE, p. 120 (non-fusion BMs).
The specific variants affected would be:
Raider JL-1 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6955/raider-jl-1)
Raider JL-3A (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8070/raider-jl-3a)
Raider JL-3B (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8071/raider-jl-3b)
Raider II JL-2 (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6956/raider-mk-ii-jl-2)
Raider II JL-3C (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8072/raider-mk-ii-jl-3c)
I didn't come across any other non-IndustrialMechs with a non-fusion engine.