Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV

[Adacas]

Let's see, we are not complaining, it is that what we say here is that wanting to build an industrial military apparatus based exclusively on a local production of Militimechs or Mech Primitives does not do much as a state, you want to use them for a laugh with friends, okay Do you want to use them to represent militias? Okay, do you want to make them representative of the MHAF mechs in Dark Age? I don't think so, and I know that here there are many of us who think that way, nothing more than that about the Primitives / Militiamechs

Before they brought up the subject again, it was to ask what we would play in Rec Guide 14, and we talked about that, and then the subject came up that we manufactured and what we could expect, Sartris made some very measured comments on the subject and nothing more than that.

[Turaglas]

i didn't say none, after all. the MH's mech manufacturing is in the same group as Randis and the Fronc Reaches

Hawkwolves, Commandos, Dervish, and Warhammers or Hunchmen, riflemen, Clints, Toros, Wasps, and Stingers newly added in recent years.  I'm sure there's more than what's on page 189 of Field Manual 3145 and yes, I left out the variants being older because I'm trying to shorten how long this response is.  Randis makes a Marian refit of the Commando and it's kinda hilarious.

But our battlemech lines don't really specify what we have other than battlemech plants expanding.  I want to believe it's just information being absent rather than specifically stating we just make niche tanks and new battle armors. 

Writing longer responses is helping me ignore this migraine so thanks guys.

[Walrus Gumboot]

Marian Arms either needs to get a TAG fit into a version of the CN9-H(X), or clear the torso. Although I suppose the 50-rocket battery isn't much of an issue there. Either way synergies are important for that kind of thing.

[Adacas]

Marian Arms either needs to get a TAG fit into a version of the CN9-H(X), or clear the torso. Although I suppose the 50-rocket battery isn't much of an issue there. Either way synergies are important for that kind of thing.

The CN9-H no longer exists in the mechs available for the MHAF in Dark Age, if what you mean is that based on the Centurion Chassis you can go towards a version of Centurion with TAG and some other weapons and if it could be but if not They say that we have it, it is even difficult for us to theorize the subject, we have 3 Mech factories at least confirmed and another suspected
ATC Alphard
Marian Arms - Alphard
ATC Addhara
And maybe something that HMI does in Pompeii although it can be parts of mechs, reactors and radiators

[Turaglas]

Nevermind.

[Baldur Mekorig]

I did bless them with a native-made Centurion....

The original form XTRO:Retrotech, or the new from Irregulars?

Thing is, i totally get the marian fans. I know that building a mech in-universe is not a easy task, with the number of interconected and dependant industries and facilities you have to set up to actually produce the mech, but i think that if Randis.....heck, if New St. Andrews and the Rim Collection could open industri/primitive lines, and later upgrade to SW tech, it would be logical for the MH to be building "modern" (by modern i mean at the very least the SL tech the IS could produce in 3050) units, at least in some of their factories. I am not talking that the MH is suddenly spitting XXL Ferro Lamellor mechs with home-built Clan Weapondry, but i could see the MH having at the very least half of their line producing stuff like the SL era Emperor, or some other newer upgrade of the Gladiator or Locust/Commando.

PD: As I always say, i was very surprised during the Jihad to see Randis producing a mech, even if primitive, and was very surprised when i read they were producing 3 models. And now in the DA they are making slightly more modern models. All made by a single planet (with some other friends).

[Turaglas]

The original form XTRO:Retrotech, or the new from Irregulars?

Thing is, i totally get the marian fans. I know that building a mech in-universe is not a easy task, with the number of interconected and dependant industries and facilities you have to set up to actually produce the mech, but i think that if Randis.....heck, if New St. Andrews and the Rim Collection could open industri/primitive lines, and later upgrade to SW tech, it would be logical for the MH to be building "modern" (by modern i mean at the very least the SL tech the IS could produce in 3050) units, at least in some of their factories. I am not talking that the MH is suddenly spitting XXL Ferro Lamellor mechs with home-built Clan Weapondry, but i could see the MH having at the very least half of their line producing stuff like the SL era Emperor, or some other newer upgrade of the Gladiator or Locust/Commando.

PD: As I always say, i was very surprised during the Jihad to see Randis producing a mech, even if primitive, and was very surprised when i read they were producing 3 models. And now in the DA they are making slightly more modern models. All made by a single planet (with some other friends).

They even upgraded that original model.  So Randis gets 4 mechs, 2 at SL tech level, a Marian Commando variant, and their own unique missile boat that is probably not half bad.  Now that I re-read that, yeah it makes more sense why other Marian fans are having conniptions over it. 

[Walrus Gumboot]

The CN9-H no longer exists in the mechs available for the MHAF in Dark Age, if what you mean is that based on the Centurion Chassis you can go towards a version of Centurion with TAG and some other weapons and if it could be but if not They say that we have it, it is even difficult for us to theorize the subject, we have 3 Mech factories at least confirmed and another suspected
ATC Alphard
Marian Arms - Alphard
ATC Addhara
And maybe something that HMI does in Pompeii although it can be parts of mechs, reactors and radiators

I meant the MilitaMech design path, which broke into the big leagues when they started upgrading it with components from the Testudo supply chain. There's a niche for lower-end mechs that synergize well with better quality conventionals.

EDIT: Although I think the non-hostile environment limitation is going to keep it to defensive deployments. The Marians may hit on a "legionnaire" (not the Legionnaire design, the role) mech, I think they can do it, "medium trooper" is exactly where to do it, but being able to operate most everywhere is part of being a mass-deployed generalist.

[Baldur Mekorig]

They even upgraded that original model.  So Randis gets 4 mechs, 2 at SL tech level, a Marian Commando variant, and their own unique missile boat that is probably not half bad.  Now that I re-read that, yeah it makes more sense why other Marian fans are having conniptions over it.

Well, "technically" the Commando -4H and Hawkwolf -4F are SL tech, thanks to the RL and MML-5 not beign introductory tech. But i would not call them "upgraded". I think the bare minimun to call a mech "upgraded" is the Hound.

[Adacas]

I meant the MilitaMech design path, which broke into the big leagues when they started upgrading it with components from the Testudo supply chain. There's a niche for lower-end mechs that synergize well with better quality conventionals.

If you change the reactor and something else would make sense to put TAG already with the expense that is made with the Ferrofiber and the UCA / 10 is almost at the values of a 3050 mech without so many benefits so better invest in a logical reactor modernization, chassis and internal structure things that the hegemony of long ago already manufactures

[Turaglas]

Well, "technically" the Commando -4H and Hawkwolf -4F are SL tech, thanks to the RL and MML-5 not beign introductory tech. But i would not call them "upgraded". I think the bare minimun to call a mech "upgraded" is the Hound.

Right, still new to all this.  I don't know the context of what standard starts at, I'll get there.

[Walrus Gumboot]

If you change the reactor and something else would make sense to put TAG already with the expense that is made with the Ferrofiber and the UCA / 10 is almost at the values of a 3050 mech without so many benefits so better invest in a logical reactor modernization, chassis and internal structure things that the hegemony of long ago already manufactures

The real limitation there is that recent natively produced Marian gear also all exists for export, and are nicely competitive in their niche- everything sells. the Ravagers sell, Marauder BA sells, the Testudo sells, the Centurion MilitiaMech sells. A smaller production run (so that the output might go entirely to the Legios) higher end mech is sort of pointless. They can buy those; they apparently do.

EDIT: Well, maybe they'll get a Thud. Hadrian of Pompey being told to get into the battlemech business is an outstanding plotpoint, they handle 260-rated Fusion Engines making Shilones, there's a Thunderbolt guide coming up. I don't see the point of them doing it in 3150 other than being able to say that they have a domestic heavy, though.

EDIT2: It's most like Pompey. In 3142 a large Tamarind-Abbey force raided it looking for battlemech parts; needless to say I can't recall any designs in use with the Unified Duchy Command that rely on rocket-launchers.

[Turaglas]

The real limitation there is that recent natively produced Marian gear also all exists for export, and are nicely competitive in their niche- everything sells. the Ravagers sell, Marauder BA sells, the Testudo sells, the Centurion MilitiaMech sells. A smaller production run (so that the output might go entirely to the Legios) higher end mech is sort of pointless. They can buy those; they apparently do.

EDIT: Well, maybe they'll get a Thud. Hadrian of Pompey being told to get into the battlemech business is an outstanding plotpoint, they handle 260-rated Fusion Engines making Shilones, there's a Thunderbolt guide coming up. I don't see the point of them doing it in 3150 other than being able to say that they have a domestic heavy, though.

Someone correct me because I don't have all the 3145 readouts for this and I don't want to quote Sarna but:

Centurion for militias sure, that's partly a side business because a lot of people inside and out of the Hegemony wanted it.  Ravager, Marauder, Testudo?  Those was built domestic first and then sold later because there was a demand and it's hard not to get a weapons market through the Taurians.  Especially since the Testudo was built literally because of infantry grievances in needing better support.  Can't think of the rest because these ones pop the most but I still can't see the point in the argument.

I know you're still salty the FWL didn't get the 10SE and 11 but please keep your bias in your own board.  I don't see anything hampering a reason for technology to and manufacturing to not proliferate to the Marians as Adacas said with the modern lighter stuff.  More primitive or retro variants, or... standard old SL?  Regardless quite a few minor powers that recovered from the Dark Age build their own mechs now.  It's shameful we don't even get mentions of what we actually build here. 

Anyway I think the Tbolt would be great for domestic use, it's an awesome mech.  I doubt it would be a feature for the periphery in general just yet.  I'm making a wide assumption here, I assume all of the Ilclan rec books are focusing on IS and clan stuff only and not if it proliferated outward.  I haven't read any of them.

[Walrus Gumboot]

I know you're still salty the FWL didn't get the 10SE and 11 but please keep your bias in your own board.  I don't see anything hampering a reason for technology to and manufacturing to not proliferate to the Marians as Adacas said with the modern lighter stuff.  More primitive or retro variants, or... standard old SL?  Regardless quite a few minor powers that recovered from the Dark Age build their own mechs now.  It's shameful we don't even get mentions of what we actually build here. 

I'm Tamarind-Abbey FWL, I really don't care about that kind of thing- it's the happy side effect of making nothing domestically. I think the Marians retooling mech production to a smaller output high-tech mech design in 3150 timeline would be a catastrophic mistake, and I think their design gap in the years prior is a mass-produced trooper that synergizes well with their conventional gear and can be used in their front-line. The H3 Centurion from irregulars isn't it (among other things, because of the environmental sealing but mostly because while building a slightly-better than 3025 tech battlemech at industrial mech costs using industrial mech and advanced but off-the-shelf components is impressive, it doesn't alter their situation much if they aren't throwing Cohorts of the things around (on planets with breathable atmosphere).

If the Marians are using their military industrial plant to its utmost, they make good gear, they are selling everything that they make in excess of their needs, and they can buy whatever shortfalls they need at better quality than they can make domestically, in quantities determined by purchasing power... they are in a wonderful, enviable position. High-end heavy mech production envy is a deeply stupid vice.

[Turaglas]

I'm Tamarind-Abbey FWL, I really don't care about that kind of thing- it's the happy side effect of making nothing domestically. I think the Marians retooling mech production to a smaller output high-tech mech design in 3150 timeline would be a catastrophic mistake, and I think their design gap in the years prior is a mass-produced trooper that synergizes well with their conventional gear and can be used in their front-line. The H3 Centurion from irregulars isn't it (among other things, because of the environmental sealing but mostly because while building a slightly-better than 3025 tech battlemech at industrial mech costs using industrial mech and advanced but off-the-shelf components is impressive, it doesn't alter their situation much if they aren't throwing Cohorts of the things around (on planets with breathable atmosphere).

If the Marians are using their military industrial plant to its utmost, they make good gear, they are selling everything that they make in excess of their needs, and they can buy whatever shortfalls they need at better quality than they can make domestically, in quantities determined by purchasing power... they are in a wonderful, enviable position. High-end heavy mech production envy is a deeply stupid vice.

I'm glad you don't care for that thing, but Marian players do in most respects from what I've seen.  It's one thing to assert your viewpoint from the plot horse, but even though your commanders aren't making suicidal tactical decisions written in by rushed writing purely by contrivance, you forgot to be envious of something else greater than the Marian industrial complex and drive to be self reliant:

We didn't have our arses saved by the clans interfering with the Lyran invasion.   :thumbsup:  That's pretty damn good in retrospect no matter what we all believe in.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

If you change the reactor and something else would make sense to put TAG already with the expense that is made with the Ferrofiber and the UCA / 10 is almost at the values of a 3050 mech without so many benefits so better invest in a logical reactor modernization, chassis and internal structure things that the hegemony of long ago already manufactures

Yes. The Hegemony needs to be able to produce these standard items that other factions build for granted. Although, it's funny the notable pilot of the Centurion MilitiaMech is able to evade our veteran Legios while raiding the Hegemony with junk Mechs.

[Walrus Gumboot]

I'm glad you don't care for that thing, but Marian players do in most respects from what I've seen.  It's one thing to assert your viewpoint from the plot horse, but even though your commanders aren't making suicidal tactical decisions written in by rushed writing purely by contrivance, you forgot to be envious of something else greater than the Marian industrial complex and drive to be self reliant:

We didn't have our arses saved by the clans interfering with the Lyran invasion.   :thumbsup:  That's pretty damn good in retrospect no matter what we all believe in.

Suicidal tactical decisions are the Duchy of Tamarind-Abbey's balliwick, notably the 7th Tamarind Regulars pulled a Fredericksburg against III Legio on Gibraltar. What has happened to the Hegemony as of the start of 3151 is that a strategic decision- however it was made- (expanding their offensives) has led to a situation where operational choices can't be good (Killgore having to use his own breakthrough as a strategic reserve and committing it to a pitched battle back in Hegemony territory- he wouldn't have done it if he didn't have to, and he wouldn't have stuck it out against a brigade formation if he could have walked away from the planet). Tactically they are as solid as ever.

I think that you don't comprehend one of the strengths of your chosen faction affiliation. The Marian military industrial complex is in doctrine a thing of beauty.

(EDIT: re "however it was made"- I think that there is a non-zero chance that it was an intentional decision made domestically, and the purpose was to wreck some Marian institution (either the army or the Caesar) for the benefit of some other (possibly domestic) party. That would not be without precedent. Or it could have been the same thing, only involving SAFE. It could also just be straight Victory Disease- years of easy gains calling down hubris. I'd like a closer pass in lore about all this.)

(EDIT2: Or the Magistracy! I don't trust those people.)

[Adacas]

Suicidal tactical decisions are the Duchy of Tamarind-Abbey's balliwick, notably the 7th Tamarind Regulars pulled a Fredericksburg against III Legio on Gibraltar. What has happened to the Hegemony as of the start of 3151 is that a strategic decision- however it was made- (expanding their offensives) has led to a situation where operational choices can't be good (Killgore having to use his own breakthrough as a strategic reserve and committing it to a pitched battle back in Hegemony territory- he wouldn't have done it if he didn't have to, and he wouldn't have stuck it out against a brigade formation if he could have walked away from the planet). Tactically they are as solid as ever.

I think that you don't comprehend one of the strengths of your chosen faction affiliation. The Marian military industrial complex is in doctrine a thing of beauty.

(EDIT: re "however it was made"- I think that there is a non-zero chance that it was an intentional decision made domestically, and the purpose was to wreck some Marian institution (either the army or the Caesar) for the benefit of some other (possibly domestic) party. That would not be without precedent. Or it could have been the same thing, only involving SAFE. It could also just be straight Victory Disease- years of easy gains calling down hubris. I'd like a closer pass in lore about all this.)

(EDIT2: Or the Magistracy! I don't trust those people.)

Your opinion on the Hegemonic military industrial complex is a joke and quite bad.

And what the authors put in Shattered Fortress from the creation of the V Legio to the offensive is against the strategy discussed in the Era Report and Field Manual 3145, which was exactly the opposite of what is done in Shattered Fortress.

In the Era Report the Hegemony was making a cultural annexation plan and it was only allowed to do Raids, less than 3 years later the opposite is done.

But going back to marian production, the only thing that is updated is the production of Tanks and Battlearmor, of the possible updates or local construction of mechs, aero or any other innovation, well thanks, except for the Militiamech and primitive mechs that were already built in 3077 , from there to this time bone about 60/70 years of advance nothing at all, except a Militiamech nothing else

[Adacas]

(EDIT: re "however it was made"- I think that there is a non-zero chance that it was an intentional decision made domestically, and the purpose was to wreck some Marian institution (either the army or the Caesar) for the benefit of some other (possibly domestic) party. That would not be without precedent. Or it could have been the same thing, only involving SAFE. It could also just be straight Victory Disease- years of easy gains calling down hubris. I'd like a closer pass in lore about all this.)


[/quote])


We are talking about the SAFE that just happened to him like an elephant from the nose that Andurien and Canopus are stealing about 20 systems more or less and that they attack the Rim Commonality while they sell him that Hegemony is the "Great Danger" to beat?
The offensive against the Hegemony is simply the military adventurism of Fontaine, who is thirsty for glory easy to sell himself as an Alternate Grand Captain General, I hope the authors are more equanimous in the next book and things will be returned to him.

For Canopians and Marik prisoner shooters we have already prepared their award, it is rustic since we are peripheral and very traditional

[Adacas]

Returning to the issue raised, I think two days ago, any hope of what Rec Guide 14 can touch us? Some new mech, some new version of a classic or miraculously some clanner mech that appears in our MUL? Will they be light mech again, will they be medium or some heavy / assault?
O Miracle among miracles an appearance of a Marian Factory making some design, even if it is not very modern (SL yes, no Clan)

Opinions?

[Walrus Gumboot]

Returning to the issue raised, I think two days ago, any hope of what Rec Guide 14 can touch us? Some new mech, some new version of a classic or miraculously some clanner mech that appears in our MUL? Will they be light mech again, will they be medium or some heavy / assault?
O Miracle among miracles an appearance of a Marian Factory making some design, even if it is not very modern (SL yes, no Clan)

Opinions?

Thunderbolt, if anything. I've convinced myself that the Hegemony is making something on Pompey, and it isn't one of the lines they had at the end of the Jihad. Of course it could be something(s) already in the MUL (which already includes SL tech assault mechs).

[Adacas]

Thunderbolt, if anything. I've convinced myself that the Hegemony is making something on Pompey, and it isn't one of the lines they had at the end of the Jihad. Of course it could be something(s) already in the MUL (which already includes SL tech assault mechs).

The Pompeii Factory and any other HMI design after the Shilone and the Heavy LRM Carrier is within the mists of legend for us, Fluff always appears that they attack the place to steal mech parts there, but it is never clear that , and Marian Arms and ATC have their factories far from there, both those that we know that they do and those that do not and there are not factories that manufacture armor or internal structure either are in Addhara and Alphard
So the option of the Thunderbolt or any other mech could well be successful.

[Kit deSummersville]

Oh, those are yours? They're really fun designs, I played a few H2H's alongside a few Testudos the other day and it was great.

The 9-H, yeah, it fit well as an analog to the 9-A, so I proposed it to Herb as a way to get the Hegemony some home-grown manufacturing and he gave me the green light. I'm not sure who gave us the H2H but I'm glad to see some progress.

[Turaglas]

I'm trying to imagine a camouflage pattern for the Marians.  Dunno why but I have region specific and flamboyent red or blue.

[Adacas]

I'm trying to imagine a camouflage pattern for the Marians.  Dunno why but I have region specific and flamboyent red or blue.

Well, the camouflage of the hegemonic mechs, each Region has its Legion pattern, I think there must be a camouflage pattern for the different planets and rural urban camo according to the occasion and the mission, except for characteristic units that are the Legions of the MHAF, the militias must use common camouflage cams

[Turaglas]

Well, the camouflage of the hegemonic mechs, each Region has its Legion pattern, I think there must be a camouflage pattern for the different planets and rural urban camo according to the occasion and the mission, except for characteristic units that are the Legions of the MHAF, the militias must use common camouflage cams

Hmm.  Makes sense now.  Part of it is trying to bring my creative spark back that I fried in Warhammer.  Idea was to make a fan legio VII and give it a red martian camo paint...  Then I forgot I haven't played Iron brigade in almost a decade and nobody has the pics of it so that's kinda dead.

Opportunities of course for just making an auxilia company outside the Legios or even a militia but I feel like choices would be abysmal compared to the MHs already slim picks currently.   Otherwise I'll just start with a Legio II Century, Tertia cohor and call it Ferrata until my head injury recovers.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

The Pompeii Factory and any other HMI design after the Shilone and the Heavy LRM Carrier is within the mists of legend for us, Fluff always appears that they attack the place to steal mech parts there, but it is never clear that , and Marian Arms and ATC have their factories far from there, both those that we know that they do and those that do not and there are not factories that manufacture armor or internal structure either are in Addhara and Alphard
So the option of the Thunderbolt or any other mech could well be successful.

One would think that with the vast amount of pillage and salvage the Hegemony has gathered in the 75 years after the Jihad, we would cease Retro manufacturing and establish a healthy industry for civilian and military manufacture of anything up to JumpShips.

[Adacas]

And the MUL throws us another Clanner mech, this time medium, which from what you see one finds it everywhere the Griffin IIC Standard

[Colt Ward]

One would think that with the vast amount of pillage and salvage the Hegemony has gathered in the 75 years after the Jihad, we would cease Retro manufacturing and establish a healthy industry for civilian and military manufacture of anything up to JumpShips.

This is why I said the MUL, not being 'complete' for the Dark Age leaves things unfinished . . . it no longer shows them building the Centurion 9-H?  Ok, what replaced that line producing their 'most advanced' heaviest unit?  If they are not producing a qualitatively better Centurion, then IMO they would still be making the 9-H because afaik nothing in the fluff or other material says they have stopped making it or the factory wrecked.

[Adacas]

This is why I said the MUL, not being 'complete' for the Dark Age leaves things unfinished . . . it no longer shows them building the Centurion 9-H?  Ok, what replaced that line producing their 'most advanced' heaviest unit?  If they are not producing a qualitatively better Centurion, then IMO they would still be making the 9-H because afaik nothing in the fluff or other material says they have stopped making it or the factory wrecked.

Colt Ward is reasonable the Centurion H is no longer listed in the MUL as an option for MHAF troops and it is said in the Militiamech fluff that this is an evolution of what was learned in the Retrotech.
The Hegemony must be building something else already said here by Sartris and Greekfire, which is manufactured is what is not known so much by Marian Arms, ATC or HMI.
Expecting something with tech clanner to be manufactured in the Hegemony is illusory, the tragic thing is that nothing is said about tech inner sphere either