Naval Pictures VI: A New Enterprise

[Colt Ward]

Pressure on the hull of at that depth is immaterial b/c none of the compartments are sealed/pressurized, so the stresses are the same as it would be shallower.

From the NOAA link, apparently you have to get permission from the Canucks, but why I do not know since its outside their territorial waters.

[Daryk]

Is it in their EEZ?

[nerd]

Thank god Ballard found her when he did.  Otherwise Titanic would be one of the great maritime mysteries, in a few more years.

All because the Navy wanted to know more about the status of lost USS Scorpion (SSN-589) and Thresher (SSN-593).

One of the last pics of Scorpion taken alongside a modified LST in Italy in April of 1968.

From: https://www.history.navy.mil/content/history/nhhc/our-collections/photography/us-people/s/slattery-francis-a/nh-70304.html

[ANS Kamas P81]

Pressure on the hull of at that depth is immaterial b/c none of the compartments are sealed/pressurized, so the stresses are the same as it would be shallower.

You'd still get some pressure from the seafloor current flow, as it swirls around and through the wreck itself.  Static water pressure certainly took its toll long ago, but it's still being pushed on (gently) by the current which IIRC was about one and a half knots from the 2012 Cameron retrospective.

[Wrangler]

Back to the pictures.

DDG-172 of PLAN,  the first type 052D Class Guided Missile Destroyer.  7,200 tons, she sort of a over size frigate, because he only packing 64 cells in her VLS, with  130mm main gun, and ciws mounted in front of the bridge and ram type launcher on top of the mid decks.

[Kidd]

"Only" is no way to describe a 64-cell VLS...

[I am Belch II]

64 cell launcher is  much more than one than the standard 48 on European ships.

[Garrand]

Consider the US Arleigh Burke's have between 90 & 96 cells...

Damon.

[glitterboy2098]

Hypothetically, could torpedoes be used as "active mines"? Drop them in the path of an enemy force set to attack when they get in range?

yes:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_60_CAPTOR

[HobbesHurlbut]

yes:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_60_CAPTOR

limited to submarines though, is there other verions that attack other ships beside submarines?

[Wrangler]

"Only" is no way to describe a 64-cell VLS...

Reason why i said it that way was that typical Burkes carry 96 tubes, European ships have typically 32-Cell arrangements, not counting the odd ball launchers.

The Type 055s have 112-VLS tubes, not counting it's  HQ-10 which is could be considered to be a copy of the RAM launcher, which has 24 tubes that launcher.   HQ-10 is also mounted on the 052Ds.

Talking about yesterday....HMS Darling, 1893.  Putting the torpedo in name torpedo-boat into the which eventually became a Destroyer.
She was armed with her 3 18 inch torpedoes tubes, and single 12 pound naval gun, six 6 pounders guns.


She didn't a lively remarkable career, however she was known to been

'Fastest Boat Ever"

when she was commissioned in 1893, clocked at 28.21 knots.
She was mainly used at gunnery schools and patrol until 1912 when she was sold and scrapped.

[DoctorMonkey]

... and in more recent news, a friend of mine has sailed on HMS Queen Elizabeth today


My friend is a Captain but not the ship's captain as she is a doctor

[Wrangler]

Where is she moored?  There like control toward for the port or odd light house in background.

[DoctorMonkey]

Where is she moored?  There like control toward for the port or odd light house in background.

Portsmouth, that thing is called Spinnaker Tower ([size=78%]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emirates_Spinnaker_Tower[/size]) and is a viewing platform for tourists

[Kidd]

Consider the US Arleigh Burke's have between 90 & 96 cells...

In terms of navies the USN is quite an outlier.

[Wrangler]

Call me odd but most ships with VLS launchers in the US fleet can't replenish their launchers at see anymore. That capacity was deleted to make more room for missiles. I'm not sure if early Ticos and flight 0 Burkes still have them. 

[Kidd]

Call me odd but most ships with VLS launchers in the US fleet can't replenish their launchers at see anymore. That capacity was deleted to make more room for missiles. I'm not sure if early Ticos and flight 0 Burkes still have them.

The ammunitioning crane only takes up 3 cells per group IINM

Thus on earlier Arleigh Burkes, each 48-cell group, fore and aft, has 3 less cells taken up by the crane

However apparently it was considered impractical since the rearming operation can only be done in quite restrictive sea state conditions

[chanman]

Consider the US Arleigh Burke's have between 90 & 96 cells...

Damon.

It's quite in line with the difference in loaded displacement. The Burkes, Kongo/Atago/Maya, and Sejong the Great classes tend to displace some 2000 tons more at full load than the Type 052D or Horizon-class. The real outlier is the British Type 45

[I am Belch II]

It's quite in line with the difference in loaded displacement. The Burkes, Kongo/Atago/Maya, and Sejong the Great classes tend to displace some 2000 tons more at full load than the Type 052D or Horizon-class. The real outlier is the British Type 45

The Type 45 and the Horizon Class have the ability to hold more VLS than the 48. The Type 45 can get 24 more for 72 and the Horizon class can get 16 more for 64.
Space is there but not fitted.

[Kidd]

In addition to being designed for more tubes, the Horizons are smaller at around ~7,000 tons, while I think the Darings have better accommodations

[ANS Kamas P81]

However apparently it was considered impractical since the rearming operation can only be done in quite restrictive sea state conditions

Also the crane system (as well as the current transfer capabilities of the munitions carriers) was only good for SM2 or Sea Sparrow sets, SM6 and Tomahawk were too heavy either for the crane to handle or to be transferred at sea.  Still are, actually; the Navy's looking at forward-deployed rearmament points simply because even modern UNREP can't handle the 3,000lb+ weights.

Man, can you imagine trying to reload the steel forest that would have been the Arsenal Ship?

[Daryk]

Only in port...  ::)

[Kidd]

It's also kind of redundant - if you want to reload, you need ammunition ships; if you have an ammunition ship, said ship ought to have a crane; so why carry a crane?

BTW, have a picture for the picture thread:

[Daryk]

Well that was strange... there was no image in the thread, but when I hit "reply" to point out the problem, it appeared in the "Topic Summary"...

Nice pic, btw...  :thumbsup:

[dgorsman]

Given the current and forseable future, presumably those managing the system requirements don't think there would be situations where at-sea reloading would actually be necessary.  And that may have been part of the point of an arsenal ship as well - stocked with enough to handle predicted situations.

[Wrangler]

I was under the impression that the Ohio-Class ships which were converted into Guided Missile Submarines were essentially arsenal ships all but in name.  They can't use guided radar as far i'm ever heard of. So they have either program their tomahawks in the tubes with info being feed into them or they have surface or another form 2nd means to guide the missiles after their fired from the sub.

As far i've heard, the Ohios aren't being replaced but substituted with extended body Viriginas but they don't have as much throwing power as the Ohio SSGNs do.

[kato]

So they have either program their tomahawks in the tubes with info being feed into them or they have surface or another form 2nd means to guide the missiles after their fired from the sub.

Tomahawk retargeting-after-launch (there is no active guidance) always occurs via UHF SATCOM.

[I am Belch II]

Tomahawk retargeting-after-launch (there is no active guidance) always occurs via UHF SATCOM.

The Virginia  Block 5 will have 4 of the 7 missile tubes for the TLAM so total weapon hold will be 61. 25 with the torpedo tubes, 12 from the previous VLS, and 28 from the new tubes. They were going to put 8 of the 7 pack tubes, but I guess cost and other reasons really tamed the ships. Still a lot less than a Ohio SSGN but on  smaller more maneuverable advanced ship.....just in case of bad things

[Wrangler]

Speaking about Guided Missile Submarines,  how about the USS Grayback?  She and her sister ship, USS Growler were two ships of the early 1950s program to fire Regulus series of Cruise Missiles.  While the Regular program wasn't as successful, having designed to carry pair of the larger Regulus II missiles, she found different role which is carried on.  After cancellation of the Regulus program with arrival the Polaris ICBMs, the Grayback became used as Amphibious Troop carrying submarine with her signature twin large hangars for the Regulus missiles.  She stayed in commission as Amfib sub till mid 1980.



She was painted bright red and sank as a torpedo target out of Subic Bay.


Her sistership, USS Growler, despite being decommissioned nearly 10 years after being commissioned survived through preservation at the Intrepid Sea-Air-Space Museum.

[beachhead1985]

After cancellation of the Regulus program with arrival the Polaris ICBMs, the Grayback became used as Amphibious Troop carrying submarine with her signature twin large hangars for the Regulus missiles.  She stayed in commission as Amfib sub till mid 1980.

any more info on this? # of troops, scheme of deployment?