Box Set

[Talen5000]

Quick Question

Is the Introductory Box Set in print?
I'm looking for a copy and can't find one anywhere

[Sartris]

It, unfortunately, is not in print and is generally only available on the secondary market for outrageous prices. There are rumors of a new box set on the horizon,  but there is no substantive information about when or what exactly it will contain.

[Meridian]

I suspect a new version with the New BT trade dressing will arrive around the release of the New PC game. Having that kinda cross promotion seems like an obvious marketing move to me. Hoping that's the case, anyways.

[Mindwiper]

Hope is all that remains... wouldn't bet on it.

Beta of the HBS Battletech game wil start soon. So we will see.

IMHO In this difficult times with good Tabletop Games and boardgames popping up everywhere:  A month long, year(s) long "out of print" shouldn't happen. Especially when it is something supposed to bring you into the franchise and hobby.

[Talen5000]

It, unfortunately, is not in print and is generally only available on the secondary market for outrageous prices. There are rumors of a new box set on the horizon,  but there is no substantive information about when or what exactly it will contain.

Really?

That seems surprisingly short sighted. The Box Set is the gateway into the game...it's the one product you'd want to have continuously in print, even if only via mail/special order.

Or so I'd have thought.

Another question...I've seen pictures of the set with two covers...one with an Atlas (I think), and one with a Hammerhands.

Are these the same (barring the cover) or are there difference between them? Or is there just one cover?

[elf25s]

Really?

That seems surprisingly short sighted. The Box Set is the gateway into the game...it's the one product you'd want to have continuously in print, even if only via mail/special order.

Or so I'd have thought.

Another question...I've seen pictures of the set with two covers...one with an Atlas (I think), and one with a Hammerhands.

Are these the same (barring the cover) or are there difference between them? Or is there just one cover?

hammerhands is a 25th anniversary box set it is identical to the atlas intro cover box.
only differences are cover ox and minis are made from different plastic.

and yes even hellbay got ridiculous prices for used sets...500 bucks?

i still have 3  intro extra boxes...long story

[TurboCooler]

HBS has an update today stating the Beta was delay which of course means the launch will be delay.  If the logic of this thread go, that means we will not see the Box set until June/July the earliest which in "Catalyst time" means lucky if we see anything before Xmas.  Hopefully we at least see the new Battlemech Manual by the start of summer but I am not sure about that either.

[Liam's Ghost]

HBS has an update today stating the Beta was delay which of course means the launch will be delay.  If the logic of this thread go, that means we will not see the Box set until June/July the earliest which in "Catalyst time" means lucky if we see anything before Xmas.  Hopefully we at least see the new Battlemech Manual by the start of summer but I am not sure about that either.

The computer game being produced by Hairbrained Schemes has no relation to the boxed set. Different companies with different goals. The last report I heard about the boxed set is that they were considering reprinting the current boxed set to hold things over until the next version (More modest in scope and less expensive for all involved) was ready.

Really?

That seems surprisingly short sighted. The Box Set is the gateway into the game...it's the one product you'd want to have continuously in print, even if only via mail/special order.

Catalyst has had bad luck with getting boxed sets printed, and Battletech is something of a niche product. They might not be able to afford keeping it in continuously in print without guarantees of larger sales. Catalyst isn't a big company.

[RotS fan]

The computer game being produced by Hairbrained Schemes has no relation to the boxed set. Different companies with different goals. The last report I heard about the boxed set is that they were considering reprinting the current boxed set to hold things over until the next version (More modest in scope and less expensive for all involved) was ready.

Catalyst has had bad luck with getting boxed sets printed, and Battletech is something of a niche product. They might not be able to afford keeping it in continuously in print without guarantees of larger sales. Catalyst isn't a big company.

1) irrelevant. Video games are always the biggest advertising Battletech gets. It does not matter HBS is not CGL, if catalyst does not take advantage of the free advertising they are terrible sellers

2) not an excuse. BT is a niche product that somehow always manage to sell all units its main product. It is bad for the game's image for them letting the intro box sell out. If CGL wants to make money they have to spend money.

I like CGL products, but hate their business model.

[Liam's Ghost]

1) irrelevant. Video games are always the biggest advertising Battletech gets. It does not matter HBS is not CGL, if catalyst does not take advantage of the free advertising they are terrible sellers

2) not an excuse. BT is a niche product that somehow always manage to sell all units its main product. It is bad for the game's image for them letting the intro box sell out. If CGL wants to make money they have to spend money.

So you think that catalyst should wait to have a boxed set to release in concert with the computer game to take advantage of its hype, but they should also already have it for sale?  ???

Also, you need to have money to spend money. If catalyst can't afford to keep it in continuous production, they can't afford to have it in continuous production. All the cliches in the world don't bring money spontaneously into existence, or convince banks that niche tabletop games are a safe bet to hand out loans. Do we even know how much profit the boxed set actually brings in? It seems very well priced for what you get. Maybe even a Loss Leader. 

There's nothing ideal about the situation, but maybe, just maybe, it's more complicated and difficult than people might think or want to believe.

[Fat Guy]

Ont thing to remember: yes, each printing (7500 units) sells out almost immediately. Guaranteed seller, why don't they print more? You have to look at what you get for the price they charge. The profit margin on the starter box has to be slim to nothing.

So it's a product that's extremely difficult to produce that makes little or no money (and may actually be a money loser!). Add in the fact CGL is a skeleton crew with a shoestring budget.

[cavingjan]

Did they even print 7500 units for the last one?

[pheonixstorm]

I don't know, but if they didn't they should. If they were still in print I would have bought two more for x-mas. Instead I had to buy more lance packs... which wasn't too bad, but I wanted more Hunchbacks and Assassins. And Enforcers.

I know others on the forum also buy multiple copies as well, at least of the most recent box with the better quality minis. If the next box set includes 24 classic minis I know I will buy at least 3 if not more.

It would be nice if CGL could have them ready to coincide with the release of the HBS BattleTech game but I wouldn't hold my breath. We all know they are working on getting a new box set ready but finding a good manufacturer and staying within budget will probably make the search take longer than normal.

Does anyone know if they even have any masters ready for creating the new molds yet? Do we know if the new wave of minis will be single piece or multi-piece?? Too many questions and not enough official rumor from Randall other than the new box will most likely have the classics in it.

[Kit deSummersville]

They really need to raise the price for the box set. It'd be a nice to endure the low return if they were bringing in a substantial new group of players but they aren't.

[elf25s]

I know others on the forum also buy multiple copies as well, at least of the most recent box with the better quality minis. If the next box set includes 24 classic minis I know I will buy at least 3 if not more.

hey my multi purchase was an accident...
and btw i still have 3 boxes left

[UrQuanKzinti]

They really need to raise the price for the box set. It'd be a nice to endure the low return if they were bringing in a substantial new group of players but they aren't.

So it's preferable to milk the existing player base for all they can rather than re-tool their approach to successfully attract new players?
That doesn't sound like the best way to achieve strong & lasting player-base.

Maybe the best way to ensure that the game finds itself in the hands of new players is to simply make it less attractive to veterans.  By either offering existing players an attractive alternative for maps & miniatures or by removing the aspects that encourages repeated buys by veterans.  One existing player in the other thread mentioned that he had bought not one but six copies of the base game. That represents not five new potential players, but rather five potential new groups of players each of whom could inject money into the game with different purchases.

[Sartris]

The problem is that the intro box the chief vehicle to introduce new players and also the cheapest way to acquire minis. Assuming you threw the rest of the box out, you're only paying $2.50 per miniature. As long as that overlapping interest exists, vets will continue to buy them.

[pheonixstorm]

I forget who brought this up... maybe in one of Randalls Q&A or perhaps Adrian.. but CGL (official rumor??) was looking into 2 boxes. One would be a starter box (renamed the intro box IIRC) and the standard box. Starter would be 20 or 25 with a lance of minis.

In another thread (rumor, maybe official, can't recall) someone had said that the box set has a very slim profit margin as is. While I would not like to see the price go up, I wouldn't grumble too much if it only went up by 5 or maybe 10. Though I would rather not see an increase in price at all. Ever. Never ever ever. Well... except to match inflation maybe... or they added something to the box that would justify the price increase.

[nckestrel]

I forget who brought this up... maybe in one of Randalls Q&A or perhaps Adrian.. but CGL (official rumor??) was looking into 2 boxes. One would be a starter box (renamed the intro box IIRC) and the standard box. Starter would be 20 or 25 with a lance of minis.

I believe that was Randall at MechCon 2016, with Ray giving some follow up to the announcement here on the forums when somebody mentioned it.

[Kit deSummersville]

So it's preferable to milk the existing player base for all they can rather than re-tool their approach to successfully attract new players?

Damn those evil businesses for wanting to pay their employees and keep putting out product! Clearly a planned economy would avoid these scourges on our society, bring on the Chancellor!

[Empyrus]

About that price point complaint stuff: It seems this might be the reason for some ideas of introducing a starter set and renaming the box set to... "box set" (from "introductory box set")?
IE there'd be a cheap starter set that would be attractive to impulse buy thing, something that introduces BT in general.

The box set would be pretty good deal even with higher price, when one considers how many minis it has and its general contents. (Provided the minis are good quality like the current introbox/lance pack ones are.)

Damn those evil businesses for wanting to pay their employees and keep putting out product! Clearly a planned economy would avoid these scourges on our society, bring on the Chancellor!

24 people get each one mini. Production run of 7.5k boxes means that 180k people get a taste of BattleTech.

[klarg1]

The problem is that the intro box the chief vehicle to introduce new players and also the cheapest way to acquire minis. Assuming you threw the rest of the box out, you're only paying $2.50 per miniature. As long as that overlapping interest exists, vets will continue to buy them.

Well, convincing the existing player base to buy the box is hardly a bad thing. I'd echo Kit's comment that, if that is truly the major sales market for the box, rather than highly profitable newbies, they need to price it so it produces a bit more margin on its own.

The big up-front costs probably make it impossible for CGL to keep the box set continuously in-print, but, if it were at least moderately profitable, you'd think they could reprint it at faster-than-geological time scales.

ETA: Of course, it may be that CGL thinks the thing wouldn't sell at $75 (or whatever would make money), preventing them from trying it. If so, I find it sad, but I don't have any sales data.

[Kit deSummersville]

Yeah, nothing that Catalyst (or probably most any gaming company) does is produced in amounts where it is continuously in print. Just variations on how large/how often the runs are done.

[greasyspoon]

I will start off and say I love classic BattleTech, started playing back in 9th grade some 30 years ago.  I think they need to aim at the alpha strike crowd.  My kids and I play war games and they don’t like the slowness and record keeping of BattleTech.  But they will play alpha strike.  And the Same for the “Kids” down at our local game store.  There may be one that will play classic but 4-5 that will play alpha strike.

So I think a good solution would be still make the Intro Box set with 18 or 24 mechs.  Lose some of the extra items in the box set poster, fluff books and things like that.  Have the intro to classic BattleTech book, record sheets for the mechs.  Also add an Intro to Alpha Strike book with the basic rules and mech cards for those mechs, and maybe some card terrain (hills and trees) Then have a pamphlet to point to online PDFs of the fluff books, and MUL. 

Old players like me will get the boxset for the minis, and new players will get it for rules.  Its two games in one box to appeal to  both crowds. Then also should do lance packs. For 15$  I can impulse buy and not feel bad about it, or bring the wrath of the spouse.  I am fine with the two new and two “old” minis like the current lance packs.  I think that would really help keep the player base and maybe grow it so.

[UrQuanKzinti]

Damn those evil businesses for wanting to pay their employees and keep putting out product! Clearly a planned economy would avoid these scourges on our society, bring on the Chancellor!

Never said that Catalyst would be evil for raising the prices, just that your idea was bad.  If the game is failing to attract new players because the boxset is bought by existing players, then raising the price isn't going to help attract new players.  In fact it will do the opposite. 

About that price point complaint stuff: It seems this might be the reason for some ideas of introducing a starter set and renaming the box set to... "box set" (from "introductory box set")?
IE there'd be a cheap starter set that would be attractive to impulse buy thing, something that introduces BT in general.

The box set would be pretty good deal even with higher price, when one considers how many minis it has and its general contents. (Provided the minis are good quality like the current introbox/lance pack ones are.)
24 people get each one mini. Production run of 7.5k boxes means that 180k people get a taste of BattleTech.

Are minis a necessity for a starter box given that this is a board game, not a miniatures game?

Old players like me will get the boxset for the minis, and new players will get it for rules.  Its two games in one box to appeal to  both crowds. Then also should do lance packs. For 15$  I can impulse buy and not feel bad about it, or bring the wrath of the spouse.  I am fine with the two new and two “old” minis like the current lance packs.  I think that would really help keep the player base and maybe grow it so.

Why should an introductory box be attractive to old players?  Isn't that the core of the problem that the box is having now? That it's not getting into the hands of the desired audience, new players, and expanding the player base?

[Empyrus]

Are minis a necessity for a starter box given that this is a board game, not a miniatures game?

IIRC, the outlined idea for the starter box is to have 2 'Mechs only, rules (maybe the quick start ones or something similar, not sure), some stuff. Price point of 20 dollars or so. Presumably instructions to use whatever you have handy as proxies as necessary?

The box set proper would still have minis of course.

Do note this was just talk as far as i know, until you actually see it, don't treat this even as a rumor.

[JenniferinaMAD]

IIRC, the outlined idea for the starter box is to have 2 'Mechs only, rules (maybe the quick start ones or something similar, not sure), some stuff. Price point of 20 dollars or so. Presumably instructions to use whatever you have handy as proxies as necessary?

The box set proper would still have minis of course.

Do note this was just talk as far as i know, until you actually see it, don't treat this even as a rumor.

2 mechs is too few. The game needs at least 2 units aside, for 4 total, to actually facilitate a number of the game's core tactic concepts.

[ActionButler]

I remember the rumors about that Starter Set.  Honestly, as much as I like the Intro Box (which did help get me back into the game), I think the lower price and fewer minis option would make a much better intro product. 

Nothing about Classic Battletech/Total Warfare requires minis.  In some cases, minis only complicate things.  I can only speak for myself, but I can't stand spending time fiddling with oversized minis that don't fit into a map hex (I'm looking at you, Stalking Spider). 

Instead of minis, I'd rather see a Starter Set come with a second map.  Not necessarily the hardback kind that came with the Intro Box, but just some different paper ones. 

[Empyrus]

2 mechs is too few. The game needs at least 2 units aside, for 4 total, to actually facilitate a number of the game's core tactic concepts.

I objected like that too, i think, when i first read about this idea. Presumably it is a price thing, both for production and customer, which makes a lot sense really.

A lance pack has 4 'Mechs and 4 cards for 20 dollars, perhaps cutting two 'Mechs and adding printed stuff like record sheets for the 'Mechs (and bigger package needed) are needed for that price.

Strictly speaking one is enough for all the relevant things except turn order. Movement, firing, all that can be done with just 1v1. And if it is like quick start rules, the players use only one 'Mech each, with advanced scenarios adding vehicles and infantry.
And if the instructions are to use proxies or it includes some counters for that...

This is just my speculation. Ideas can change after all.

[Talen5000]

I objected like that too, i think, when i first read about this idea. Presumably it is a price thing, both for production and customer, which makes a lot sense really.

If you are going to go that route, then a set really only needs 2 Mechs.

Having said that, more would be better - or perhaps, a Mech, a vehicle or proto and some BA or infantry.

I think the core point being made here is a good one...that having a lot of mechs per set is of new use of it means the box set can't be produced at a decent price point, or if it makes the set so attractive to existing players that new players don't get a chance to pick it up.

A Box Set similar to the "current" version is a good thing to have, IMO....but an Introductory Box Set probably could be cheaper, and less attractive to established players, if there were fewer units included. You could have 2 Mechs, or 2 combined forces Lances or a Lance and Star combo, but the current set is a good example of overkill. Too many Mechs, not enough profits. An advanced box set with more models might be an idea....or maybe just another PlasTech set. Or maybe make the Introductory minis at a smaller scale...all of them, or maybe have two full size units...suitable for intro play, but not as attractive to established players.

Having said that....I always preferred the BT3rd Edition and CityTech 2 sets precisely because they did include a variety of units and because it was ready to go straight from the box....and still looked decent. I hate to say there should be fewer minis included, but if what is suggested here is true...and I suspect it probably is...the Intro Set we had was priced too cheaply for what it contained.

Anyway....I think I have located a set which I have now ordered. Fingers crossed.