Actually Good Introtech Mechs

[Geg]

I want to pull together a list of highly BV efficient IntroTech mechs. The kind you want to make sure that the new player takes to give them an Edge and ensure they have a good time. Looking to exclude anything that requires strong synergy, situational use cases, alternate munitions, or to be any good at playing the game.

The two examples that jump immediately to mind are:

• Awesome 8Q
• Grasshopper 5N

The sort of stuff you might actually take in a later Era game.

[ravensword]

Wolverine WVR-6M.

[AlphaMirage]

PNT-9ALAG
FRB-2E
PHX-1D and1K
WHM-6D and 6K
MAD-3L and 3D

All of those I'd still take in a later game, they are tough, heat efficient, and pack adequate firepower for the mass class.

[monbvol]

ARC-2R Archer.
Can't remember which variant it is that I liked but there is an introtech Stalker I wouldn't mind taking in later eras.

[phoenixalpha]

VND-1R Vindicator - the very definition of a trooper mech. A touch slow but capable of hitting at distance and closer up that will rarely heat up.

OST-4D Ostsol - fast for a 60 tonner, a plethora of lasers and a decent amount of heatsinks to cope with bracket fire.

SHD-2H Shadow Hawk. Ok it kinda sucks. Unbalanced movement with only 3JJ, a whole different mess of weapons systems which are mismatched and inefficient but it can fulfil most rolls - albeit in a lackluster way but it's never going to be run down by a Hunchback and caught inside that 9 hex bubble conversely, it's faster and more capable being up close and in the face of an LRM boat like an Archer. It's a good mech for learning about movement, heat and ranges.

[Geg]

SHD-2H Shadow Hawk. Ok it kinda sucks....

To be honest, the SHD-2H is exactly the sort of mech I want to steer people away from.   Commonly recommended, but basically useless until already know enough that recommended mechs lists aren't all that helpful.

[Eiretech]

STC-2C Striker - General purpose 80 tonner, essentially a better Zeus
ON1-K Orion - Good Ol Orion
RVN-4X Raven - More armour, machine guns, jump jets and no EW system
BJ-1DB Blackjack - Swaps AC2s for Large Lasers and extra heat sinks
CRB-20 Crab - Good Ol Crab
CPLT-C1 Catapult - Can't go wrong with the classic 'Pult
GLT-4L Guillotine - a more close quarter Grasshopper
CRD-3D Crusader - It's explodes a little less frequently but also has more heat sinks to fire it's weapons
VND-1R Vindicator - One of the best trooper Mechs in my opinion.

[Fat Guy]

I can't believe nobody has mentioned the WLF-1A Wolfhound , JVN-10F Fire Javelin, CLPT-2K Catapult or BNC-3S Banshee.

[BrianDavion]

ENR-4R the basic enforcer's not a bad mech, it's a medium trooper that you can't really go wrong with, the ONLY issue with it is the ammo's a bit light

[House Davie Merc]

I can't believe nobody has mentioned the WLF-1A Wolfhound , JVN-10F Fire Javelin, CLPT-2K Catapult or BNC-3S Banshee.

Another vote for the JVN-10F Fire Javelin. You gotta throw a few light mechs in there somewhere
and it's comparatively more survivable then most of the others.
I might consider the Disco Ball  as well. ( HBK-4P Hunchback)
It's simple to use and lets a new player throw a LOT of dice once they're in range.
Throwing a fist full of dice at once is fun within itself.

[Frabby]

Of all the 'Mechs that spring to my mind, only one wasn’t mentioned yet:
AS7-WGS

[Minemech]

 If we are just looking at lights:
 MON-67 Mongoose
 JVN-10F Javelin
 FRB-2E Firebee
 JR7-F Jenner (The base model is quite good, but I do not think it is what you are after)
 PNT-9R Panther

 The three original bugs are fairly user friendly but left out because I do not think that they represent what you are after. The Flea similarly deserves some recognition. I shrugged when considering whether or not to list the Mercury.
 The Wolfhound did not make the cut because of all of the ways I have seen the thing misplayed or overplayed that has cost players.
 

[LAMFAN]

Personally, THE GOAT:



TDR-5S Thunderbolt

[Sartris]

Some introtech i've enjoyed outside of introtech play

AS7-RS
AWS-8Q
BNC-3S
BJ-1DB
CPLT-K2
CN9-AL
CGR-1A5
CRB-20
CNS-3M
DRG-1G
GRF-1N
GLT-4L
HOP-4B
HBK-4H
JVN-10F
JR7-A
JR7-F
LNC25-02
LNX-8Q
MAD-3D
MAD-4A
MON-68
OTT-7J
PX-3R
PXH-1D
RFL-3C
STN-3KB
STK-3H
THG-10E
TI-1A
TBT-5N
VND-1R
VON 4RH-5
VL-5T
WHM-6D
WLF-1
WVR-6M
XNT-3O
ZEU-6T

[Arkansas Warrior]

The humble, overlooked BJ-1 Blackjack is actually really solid.  4 MLs, a pair of AC2s that are great light flak, solid armor, decent mobility.


It's hard to beat a basic, bog-standard Hunchback-4G.  It's a reasonably mobile, well-armored AC20, what more do you want?


The CN9-AL Centurion is great.


The CRB-20 Crab is very solid.


The VLK-QA Valkyrie is pretty basic, but it's a mobile LRM10 with backup ML.  Simple.  Effective. Still useful.


Just a few that come to mind offhand that I didn't see mentioned, or at least commented on.

[Charistoph]

"Good" is a relative term.  A Grasshopper is a superior Skirmisher, but a lousy sniper.

Most of our local games have a win condition of a fast unit making it to the other player's deployment edge and gathering up points there.  For that, I usually pull the following:
Locust LCT-1E
Locust LCT-1S
Mercury MCY-98
Mongoose Mon-67
Jenner JR7-F

For Skirmishers, I usually look at the Wolverine 6M, but have used one of the Phoenix Hawks (PXH-1D is good), Gladiator GLD-4R, Grasshopper, or Guillotine for that role.

For a Brawler, the Thunderbolt is a favorite, and 4/5 designs will fit that role well.  The TDR-5D is a little underwhelming on firepower, so not my first choice unless I just want to freak someone out.  The Black Knight, Centurion, and 4G or 4P Hunchbacks also serve this role well.

For Fire Support, I usually save the Awesome as a secondary list for new players, but I sometimes use Missile Boats like the Archer personally or a Stalker to do a dual role of Fire Support and Juggernaut.

What is good will largely depend on what you "need" to play, what "holes" you need to fill in your lance, and what BV is left.

[Giovanni Blasini]

Glad to see the LCT-1E included.  The STG-3G is another solid Introtech 20-tonner.

It's a one-off, but the GRF-1E is also great.  I also am really fond of the EXT-4A Exterminator and the GHR-5N Grasshopper.

[Scotty]

"Good" may be relative but "BV efficient introtech you would use in later eras" is significantly less so.

For my money BV, the list isn't very long:

Awesome 8Q
Battlemaster 1G and 1D (1D definitely fits better for OP's intent)
Orion 1-V
Wolverine 6M
Shadow Hawk 2H (it's the most efficient armor at this speed for BV for a long time)
Crab 20
Wolfhound 1
Javelin 10F
Mongoose 66

And that's basically the list.  Any of the 20 tonners that is even passably efficient is wholly outclassed by better versions of themselves in later eras and the BV savings just don't cut it at sub-600 BV.

EDIT: There are definitely more than I've listed here but those are what come up off the top of my head.  Even if I go browsing through every introtech design I don't expect to get more than five or six others, though.

[ThePW]

Petty Officer PW: "LAMFAN, That T-Bolt needs to BIGGER and THICCer than the other guy... Now, what is it with you?"

LAMFAN: "I Just want to pilot the greatest 'mech in the Navy, in the game, SIR!"

So far, the recommendations are all accurate... yeah. Now will they be competitive on a table top setting with all sorts of Dark Age and iLClan era stuff?

[DevianID]

Howdy Geg!  Setting up some teaching games it seems?

So for a 'new' player I like the base Hunchback.  It has ammo, it can slightly over heat, and its main gun can headshot.  Its not too fast, and doesnt teach bad habits about jumping (and missing).  It hits on all the core things to teach about, and its nice and deadly to boot with satisfying table moments like headshot potential and dramatic ammo explosions.

Other good teaching mechs that are good for the BV is the Yen Lo Wang from the essentials box (a slightly different hunchback, but with cool looking claws), the Rifleman 3c with dual AC10s is an exemplar fire support mech for cheap, the Vindicator from the beginner box with its selection of weapons covering most of the weapon rules, and you mentioned the awesome already.

3025 stuff gets really crazy with alt ammo, but Im assuming you dont want to introduce players to infernos and all the SRM straight killers like the Trebuchet S due to needing so many dice and overloading them with too much info.  So while some of those are the most BV efficient units, ill just put my SRM spam to rest as bad for new players.

I avoid the mostly energy zombies with jump jets (the awesome is in the AGOAC so it deserves the mention though) because they teach bad habits to new players IMHO.  They also have a hard time hitting if they jump, so I value landing hits and learning how to walk/run/turn/pay for terrain much higher.  Like, I dont think the wolverine M is at all a good mech for a new player in BV, I think the Wolverine 6R is a much better value buy for the BV if you want to give them a 5 jump jet unit from AGOAC.  Likewise, the PHX1D I would not give to a new player, though the no jump PHX 1K is fine.  The 6M and 1D are 'advanced' mechs, and not that cheap in BV.

[LAMFAN]

Petty Officer PW: "LAMFAN, That T-Bolt needs to BIGGER and THICCer than the other guy... Now, what is it with you?"

LAMFAN: "I Just want to pilot the greatest 'mech in the Navy, in the game, SIR!"

So far, the recommendations are all accurate... yeah. Now will they be competitive on a table top setting with all sorts of Dark Age and iLClan era stuff?

Looks like PW's got my number. 

But yeah, it's a good All-Round heavy mech that can fight at all ranges with a good set of weaponry. The difference between an LRM10 and an LRM15 is astounding. Though I admit, it's not the EASIEST to pilot for new players due to heat management, but on the other hand it's introduces the player to the concept really well.

[Charistoph]

Too bad it's too heavy to make a LAM out of it...

[LAMFAN]

Too bad it's too heavy to make a LAM out of it...

LAM rules are DEFINITELY not for new players. That's complicated enough as is.

.....Though yes, it is sad not being able to have a dedicated bomber LAM out there due to weight limts 

[Minemech]

 It is good to teach players how to fight with lights early.

[Arkansas Warrior]

I really wouldn’t recommend a TDR-5S for a new player.  The sheer number and variety of weapons is going to be daunting, if not overwhelming, for a new player.  It’s also a walking bomb, with 4 tons of ammo; 2 in the CT(!), a ton of SRM ammo for one SRM2 (!!), and a full ton of MG ammo, sitting alone in the bottom half of the left arm (!!!).  Yes it’s got a lot of armor, but one crit in the wrong place and kablooey.  I’ve had new players who were very demoralized when a relatively pristine mech was lost to an ammo crit (a MAD-3R in the case I remember).  If you have to have a Thunderbolt, the 5SE and 5SS are both better choices.

[Geg]

Howdy Geg!  Setting up some teaching games it seems?

Yup...  as the Kickstarter draws nigh, we are getting both more new players and more stores standing up games.  However, these aren't for those first teaching games. These are for Co-playing on a side and to get people up to speed on our ilClan Era 10K format. 

I am feel like I am seeing a lot less Introtech since the last kickstarter. We had a guy last night bring an Uziel and Fafnir for his teaching game. The one before that really wanted to learn on a Stromcrow and Hunchback IIC.  And the one before that just bough the CI box and a Heavy Battlestar and asked if he could jump directly into Clantech. It also feels like everyone recently has also been a big tabletop gamer and has had basically zero issues with the movement and weapon mechanics. 90% of the teaching is around phasing, and order of operations.

[LAMFAN]

I really wouldn’t recommend a TDR-5S for a new player.  The sheer number and variety of weapons is going to be daunting, if not overwhelming, for a new player.  It’s also a walking bomb, with 4 tons of ammo; 2 in the CT(!), a ton of SRM ammo for one SRM2 (!!), and a full ton of MG ammo, sitting alone in the bottom half of the left arm (!!!).  Yes it’s got a lot of armor, but one crit in the wrong place and kablooey.  I’ve had new players who were very demoralized when a relatively pristine mech was lost to an ammo crit (a MAD-3R in the case I remember).  If you have to have a Thunderbolt, the 5SE and 5SS are both better choices.

That's fair. And honestly the 5SE is good because it also has jump jets for maneuverability and has easier heat management.

[Minemech]

 At the heart of pedagogy, different teachers have different methods to different ends. The worst situation is when you trap newer players into your own mindset, and the best situation is when you both learn from your efforts. Demonstrating important tradeoffs, like ammunition explosion risks, riding the heat scale and so forth is a part of this. Another part is teaching the differences between modes of play, such as a pickup game and a campaign. It is also important early on to illustrate how designs that may look mediocre on paper can be gamechangers when properly played. You do not want to overwhelm them, and the ability to talk things through with them matters. The warning about the energy boats above was a good one.

 In the Fight Night thread between the HER-2M and the WLF-1, the tradeoff with machine guns was an important issue. I am on the side that says to keep it. 

[Charistoph]

I really wouldn’t recommend a TDR-5S for a new player.  The sheer number and variety of weapons is going to be daunting, if not overwhelming, for a new player.  It’s also a walking bomb, with 4 tons of ammo; 2 in the CT(!), a ton of SRM ammo for one SRM2 (!!), and a full ton of MG ammo, sitting alone in the bottom half of the left arm (!!!).  Yes it’s got a lot of armor, but one crit in the wrong place and kablooey.  I’ve had new players who were very demoralized when a relatively pristine mech was lost to an ammo crit (a MAD-3R in the case I remember).  If you have to have a Thunderbolt, the 5SE and 5SS are both better choices.

On the other hand, it is much like the Chameleon in that it is good at teaching many of the lessons of Battletech, though one of the more survivable 'Mechs to provide those lessons as well.

You have the lesson of Heat management, as Alpha Striking causes problems.  You have weapons that are best used in bracket firing partly due to those Heat issues.  You have Direct Fire, Indirect Fire, as well as 2 types of Cluster Weapons (though, a SRM-4 or 6 would provide a better lesson here).  You have weapons for all range brackets.  You have to be wary of what you present to your opponent due to those Ammo bombs.

Of course, a lot depends on the person doing the learning, too.  Some people can handle the load the Thunderbolt brings, some people can't.

[BATTLEMASTER]

I pretty much agree with the list @Sartris posted.  I remember when playing the old MegaMekNET Level 1 server that those machines were by far the most desirable for a game.  I'd add the IMP-2E Imp and ANH-1E Annihilator to that as well.  Heh, the ANH-1E wasn't a canon unit at the time I was playing on MegaMekNET!  And there's the Hunchback 4P, 4H, 4SP, and Rifleman 3C.

[Geg]

"Good" may be relative but "BV efficient introtech you would use in later eras" is significantly less so.

For my money BV, the list isn't very long:

Awesome 8Q
Battlemaster 1G and 1D (1D definitely fits better for OP's intent)
Orion 1-V
Wolverine 6M
Shadow Hawk 2H (it's the most efficient armor at this speed for BV for a long time)
Crab 20
Wolfhound 1
Javelin 10F
Mongoose 66

And that's basically the list.  Any of the 20 tonners that is even passably efficient is wholly outclassed by better versions of themselves in later eras and the BV savings just don't cut it at sub-600 BV.

EDIT: There are definitely more than I've listed here but those are what come up off the top of my head.  Even if I go browsing through every introtech design I don't expect to get more than five or six others, though.

This is sort of what I am looking for!  Thanks.
Mechs on the high end of the BV efficiency scale.
Mechs that are good in 3150 (not just 3025).

[CrossfirePilot]

This thread makes no sense.  It was Introtech, the Mad Max of 1000 years in the future.  You inherited a Banshee, where half your family line died in at one point or another and you loved it! because no one else had anything besides an old Mosin rifle that they found in a museum. You find yourself driving a Shadowhawk, but you don't care because the other guy is in a Stinger...

[SteelRaven]

This thread makes no sense.  It was Introtech, the Mad Max of 1000 years in the future.  You inherited a Banshee, where half your family line died in at one point or another and you loved it! because no one else had anything besides an old Mosin rifle that they found in a museum. You find yourself driving a Shadowhawk, but you don't care because the other guy is in a Stinger...

It is a game, the objective is to have fun. If you give a new player a mech just based on the roll in the RAT, they may not have the highest option of the game as their success rate depends on the luck on the RNG before they ever start playing.

[Paul]

It is a game, the objective is to have fun. If you give a new player a mech just based on the roll in the RAT, they may not have the highest option of the game as their success rate depends on the luck on the RNG before they ever start playing.

I think you both make a good point. CFP's approach is RP focused, and it covers some of the background that I enjoy playing in, or GMing players in.
But to your point: the actual game experience has to be good as well. For me, getting a Hermes II with an AC5 that only works some of the time and a busted leg actuator might be a good experience, but that's because I get my fun 'points' from the RP side of it. The actual gameplay of having to still defeat, say, a Jenner F could be very unpleasant if the RP side means little to you.
So you have to tailor the game to what the players expect, not to what you dictate, since you and them may be on different pages.

[Nerroth]

Would the likes of the Hound or Surtur, the (non-RetroTech) HawkWolf. and/or other Periphery BattleMech designs built with "standard" technologies in (or just before) the 32nd Century, be up for consideration?

My understanding is that, of those newer "standard" 'Mech designs, the Hound in particular is considered to be both popular and easy to maintain in-universe. Would that transfer over to Total Warfare and/or Alpha Strike play, though?

[CrossfirePilot]

Yeah I was being a little factious.  Sorry if it fell flat.   

[Scotty]

The Hound isn't Introtech, it's got an LBX and Light PPCs.

[Nerroth]

The Hound isn't Introtech, it's got an LBX and Light PPCs.

On a side note: according to a post in this thread, the prototype Hound (out of universe, at least) was going to have an AC-10 and a PPC, until the production model was "upgraded" to the current design.

I suppose it would be interesting to see an official Record Sheet and/or Unit Card for that "prototype" variant; perhaps for use in parts of the Periphery where, even as of 3152, more advanced tech is still at somewhat of a premium.

But, in Total Warfare scale at least, might the rest of the design yet be "IntroTech-adjacent" enough overall to allow it to serve as a starter 'Mech for the Dark Age and ilClan eras?

[Scotty]

The impression I got was the intent was to start in the Succession Wars and introduce tech around the players while they can keep the same units for a hand on the familiar.

So... no, not really.

[SteelRaven]

Yeah I was being a little factious.  Sorry if it fell flat.

Sorry, tone can be hard to pick up on the Internet and I have read a similar post in the past by someone whom was seriously calling out folks who didn't prioritize Stingers and Wasp in their games.

[CrossfirePilot]

Hey, no problem.  I like some of the old/broke trying to make it work.  Also like the pristine battle royale...

[mitchberthelson]

I would actually, unironically, suggest the CGR-1A1 Charger. Helped me out a bit when I was first playing beyond the old box set.

Point at enemy. Run at them. Absorb fire and crush lighter Mechs in physical combat, destroy buildings, step on tanks, survive to get off the other side of the board, spot for indirect fire, or hug objectives. Only 981 BV. Plenty of room to pump up that Piloting Skill in order to bring the pain. Yes it can get obliterated by the greater firepower in later eras, but most of the other Mechs in the same price range will go down even easier because Pulse/TC/etc. negate the protection that their speed offers and they're not as durable.

Bully/objective hugger/spotter/physical combat specialist covers enough tactical bandwidth that I don't think it qualifies as an edge case. I always find a use for one, even later on.

[Starfury]

Orion 1K and 1VA
Stalker 4P
Battlemaster 1D
Charger 1A9
Charger 1A5
Charger-SB
BL 7 Black Knight
Zeus 6S and 5T
Dragon 1G and Grand Dragon
Wolverine 6K
Wolverine 6M
Griffin 1S
Wolverine 6R
Phoenix Hawk 1R and 1K
Warhammer 6D
Warhammer 6K
Trebuchet 5M
Trebuchet 5S
Centurion (All variants)
Highlander 733 and 733P
Thunderbolt 5S, 5D, 5SS
Cataphract 1X
Catapult C1
Catapult K2
Archer (All variants)
Wolfhound WLF 1
Rifleman 3C
Hammerhands
Emperor 5
Atlas 7D and RS
Banshee 3S
Mongoose
Kintaro 18
Crab 20
Blackjack 1 and 1DB
Enforcer
Ostroc (All variants)
Ostol (All variants)
Thug 10E
Guillontine 4L
Awesome 8Q
Hunchback (All variants). The Swaybacks are nasty, especially the beam spam and the LRM version
Longbow 7Q and 8C
Vulcan 5T
Javelin 10F and 10N
Valkyrie
Vindicator 1R
Dervish 6M
Locust 1E
Locust 1M
Stinger ST3G
Marauder 3D and 3M
Viper VP5
Spider 5V
Titan 1A

[mitchberthelson]

Four more that function as budget versions of some of the others that have already been mentioned, making minor tradeoffs in exchange for somewhat lower costs.

HER-2M "Mercury"
HER-4K "Hermes III"
FS9-M "Mirage"
CP-10-Q Cyclops