Author Topic: Design Challenge: BugMechs as General-Purpose Troopers?  (Read 2789 times)

Daryk

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Re: Design Challenge: BugMechs as General-Purpose Troopers?
« Reply #30 on: 15 February 2024, 20:04:13 »
Won't Ferro fit on the second one? ???

Liam's Ghost

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Re: Design Challenge: BugMechs as General-Purpose Troopers?
« Reply #31 on: 15 February 2024, 20:08:36 »
It would indeed, but... I don't know, that felt like a little bit much technology wise?

But on the topic of a little bit much, here's a version that incorporates a light engine, XL gyro, and small cockpit to add jump jets.


Flea FLE-6C

Mass: 20 tons
Chassis: Earthwerks Trooper
Power Plant: GM 120
Cruising Speed: 64.8 kph
Maximum Speed: 97.2 kph
Jump Jets: Standard
     Jump Capacity: 180 meters
Armor: Livingston Ceramics
Armament:
     1 Small Pulse Laser
     1 ER Large Laser
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Neil 2000
Targeting & Tracking System: Dalban HiRez-B
Introduction Year: 3075
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-E-D
Cost: 2,454,000 C-bills

Type: Flea
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Tonnage: 20
Battle Value: 606

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure            Endo Steel              1
Engine                        120 Light               3
   Walking MP: 6
   Running MP: 9
   Jumping MP: 6
Double Heat Sink              10 [20]                 0
XL Gyro                                               1
Small Cockpit                                         2
Armor Factor                  64                      4

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         6     
     Center Torso            6         8     
     Center Torso (rear)               2     
     R/L Torso               5         8     
     R/L Torso (rear)                  2     
     R/L Arm                 3         6     
     R/L Leg                 4         8     


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm

Weapons
and Ammo              Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage   
2 Jump Jet               LL        2        -       1.0   
Jump Jet                 RT        1        -       0.5   
3 Double Heat Sink       RT        9        -       3.0   
Small Pulse Laser        LA        1        2       1.0   
Jump Jet                 LT        1        -       0.5   
3 Double Heat Sink       LT        9        -       3.0   
2 Jump Jet               RL        2        -       1.0   
ER Large Laser           RA        2        12      5.0   
   
Features the following design quirks: Easy to Maintain, Improved Life Support, No/Minimal Arms
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

Daryk

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Re: Design Challenge: BugMechs as General-Purpose Troopers?
« Reply #32 on: 15 February 2024, 20:12:31 »
Light Ferro should still fit on that, I think...

Karack Blackstone

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Re: Design Challenge: BugMechs as General-Purpose Troopers?
« Reply #33 on: 15 February 2024, 20:57:05 »
What of the consideration to use the four weight classes within Light as replacements for Lights, Mediums, Heavies, and Assaults?

Basically:
20's are your Lights.
25's replace your Mediums.
30's work as Heavies.
35's are stand in Assaults.

Giovanni Blasini

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  • And I think it's gonna be a long, long time...
Re: Design Challenge: BugMechs as General-Purpose Troopers?
« Reply #34 on: 16 February 2024, 01:12:04 »
I suspect a Blazer on a 20-tonner may be...excessive:

Code: [Select]
Thorn THE-Y

Mass: 20 tons
Chassis: Endo Steel Biped
Power Plant: 100 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 54 kph
Maximum Speed: 86.4 kph
Jump Jets: None
     Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Light Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
     1 ER Small Laser
     1 Binary Laser (Blazer) Cannon
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3145
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-D
Cost: 1,436,620 C-bills

Type: Thorn
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Tonnage: 20
Battle Value: 617

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure            Endo Steel              1
Engine                        100 Fusion              3
Walking MP: 5
Running MP: 8
Jumping MP: 0
Double Heat Sink              10 [20]                 0
XL Gyro                                             0.5
Small Cockpit                                         2
Armor Factor (Light Ferro)    67                      4

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         9     
     Center Torso            6         8     
     Center Torso (rear)               4     
     R/L Torso               5         6     
     R/L Torso (rear)                  3     
     R/L Arm                 3         6     
     R/L Leg                 4         8     


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm

Weapons
and Ammo              Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
4 Double Heat Sink       RT        12       -       4.0   
Binary Laser Cannon      LA        4        16      9.0   
2 Double Heat Sink       LT        6        -       2.0   
ER Small Laser           HD        1        2       0.5   

"Does anyone know where the love of God goes / When the waves turn the minutes to hours?"
-- Gordon Lightfoot, "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald"

Gorgon

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Re: Design Challenge: BugMechs as General-Purpose Troopers?
« Reply #35 on: 16 February 2024, 03:34:21 »
An attempt to fit the Jackrabbit into this contest... I just like this little guy...


Code: [Select]
Jackrabbit JKR-9T

Mass: 25 tons
Chassis: Endo Steel Biped
Power Plant: 150 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 64.8 kph
Maximum Speed: 97.2 kph
Jump Jets: None
     Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
     1 ER Medium Laser
     1 Light AC/5
     2 Rocket Launcher 10
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3074
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-F-E
Cost: 2,053,125 C-bills

Type: Jackrabbit
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Tonnage: 25
Battle Value: 593

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure            Endo Steel            1.5
Engine                        150 Fusion            5.5
    Walking MP: 6
    Running MP: 9
    Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sink                     10                      0
Gyro                                                  2
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor (Ferro)          71                      4

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         9     
     Center Torso            8         13   
     Center Torso (rear)               3     
     R/L Torso               6         6     
     R/L Torso (rear)                  3     
     R/L Arm                 4         6     
     R/L Leg                 6         8     


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm

Weapons
and Ammo                    Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage   
Heat Sink                      LL        1        -       1.0   
Heat Sink                      RT        1        -       1.0   
Flechette LAC/5 Ammo (20)      RT        1        -       1.0   
ER Medium Laser                RT        1        5       1.0   
Precision LAC/5 Ammo (10)      RT        1        -       1.0   
2 Rocket Launcher 10           LA        2        3       1.0   
Heat Sink                      LT        1        -       1.0   
Heat Sink                      RL        1        -       1.0   
Light AC/5                     RA        2        1       5.0
Jude Melancon lives!

Daryk

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Re: Design Challenge: BugMechs as General-Purpose Troopers?
« Reply #36 on: 16 February 2024, 04:17:09 »
I suspect a Blazer on a 20-tonner may be...excessive:
*snip*
But GLORIOUS! ;D

PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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Re: Design Challenge: BugMechs as General-Purpose Troopers?
« Reply #37 on: 16 February 2024, 12:56:49 »
After four hours of sleep followed by 9-10 hours of work, and general bleariness, I found myself asking a weird question: can you turn a BugMech into a general-purpose trooper?

Now, we all know that larger light 'Mechs can, in some circumstances, make at least passable standard trooper 'Mechs.  I mean, that's what both the Panther and the Valkyrie both functioned as to a large degree during the Succession Wars, right?  But what about the really small 'Mechs, like 20-25 tons?

Here's my thoughts: a lot of small planets or factions have the ability to build a single BugMech, like a Wasp, Locust or Stinger.  That means that, while they may be able to build other, more conventional forces of other sizes (even if that means Scorpions tanks or their equivalents), their 'Mech forces have to revolve around this single BugMech platform.  That means potentially anti-'Mech and anti-vehicle work, infantry support, recon, etc.

So, I've got a couple possible ideas, but I wanted to see what everyone else thought and came up with.  Can it be done?  What would a general trooper that small look like?  Something like the Gùn?

Not going to specify era: I imagine the answer may change dramatically depending on era, and I want this to be as open as possible.

Interesting. I did think somewhat similar with this as well. I did thought that is it possible to classify the light mech as the different unit type(only for unit formation, not about the game rules) that is in between the standard mech/vehicle and protomech, such as about three 30~35 tonners are considered as equal asset with the standard mech/vehicle with 55+ tonner.  And for 15~25 tonner about 5~6 mech/vehicles will make the equal asset with one mech/vehicle.

Only for the unit formation, though, but grouping several light mech as equivalent asset of the same slot that could be used for one single mech/vehicle instead will gives some room for the such a light chassis without great speed, and it will gives them somewhat similar advantage with the battle armor - you know, it is not hard to kill only a single battle armor, for one AC/10 and/or one PPC shot can end most of those(at least most medium with armor point of 9 or less), but as you can field only a medium or heavier mech you may face 20+ battle armors capable to deal with the mech in the close distance, and only one AC/10 or PPC shot is required to end one of them also means you need at least 20+ shots to get rid of them as well, and at this time will it makes any difference if the target is a single mech/vehicle rather than several squads of BAs? As you know they are laugh off the MGs and flamers as well and you need your mech/vehicle grade standard guns to kill them.

Yeah AOE weapons are usually massacre them effortlessly but that's always the niche choice due to either pathetic damage(airburst mech mortar, for example) or very heavy weight/size/heat(such as long tom cannon), and if you face 20+ BAs(so that would be at least 5+ squads) even if you have an AOE weapon it would takes some time to kill them all regardless.

Code: [Select]
Line Mech Plan 01 (Initial)

Mass: 25 tons
Chassis: Endo-Composite Biped
Power Plant: 75 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 32.4 kph
Maximum Speed: 43.2 kph
Jump Jets: Standard
     Jump Capacity: 90 meters
Armor: Hardened
Armament:
     3 ER Medium Laser
     1 Small Pulse Laser
     1 Small X-Pulse Laser
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3145
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-E
Cost: 2,332,500 C-bills

Type: Line Mech Plan 01
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Tonnage: 25
Battle Value: 938

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure            Endo-Composite          2
Engine                        75 Fusion               2
Walking MP: 3
Running MP: 4
Jumping MP: 3
Double Heat Sink              10 [20]                 0
XL Gyro                                             0.5
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor (Hardened)       88                     11

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         8     
     Center Torso            8         13   
     Center Torso (rear)               3     
     R/L Torso               6         10   
     R/L Torso (rear)                  2     
     R/L Arm                 4         8     
     R/L Leg                 6         12   


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo                   Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
2 Jump Jet                    LL        2        -       1.0   
Triple Strength Myomer     RT/LT/RA   1/1/4      -       0.0   
3 Double Heat Sink            RT        9        -       3.0   
Small Pulse Laser             RT        1        2       1.0   
ER Medium Laser               RT        1        5       1.0   
Small X-Pulse Laser           LT        1        3       1.0   
Triple Strength Myomer     RT/LT/RA   1/1/4      -       0.0   
3 Double Heat Sink            LT        9        -       3.0   
ER Medium Laser               LT        1        5       1.0   
Jump Jet                      RL        1        -       0.5   
ER Medium Laser               HD        1        5       1.0   
4 Triple Strength Myomer   RT/LT/RA   1/1/4      -       0.0   
Double Heat Sink              RA        3        -       1.0   


What about this as the line unit? It would be expendable but is will last for a while.

Daryk

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Re: Design Challenge: BugMechs as General-Purpose Troopers?
« Reply #38 on: 16 February 2024, 13:16:07 »
I skimmed the thread and didn't see a smaller Panther, so...
Code: [Select]
Pantherette PNT-0

Mass: 25 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/X-E-D-D
Production Year: 3025
Dry Cost: 1,494,583 C-Bills
Total Cost: 1,495,083 C-Bills
Battle Value: 621

Chassis: Unknown Standard
Power Plant: Unknown 100 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 120 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
    1  PPC
    1  Machine Gun
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      43 points                2.50
Engine:             Fusion Engine                100                       3.00
    Walking MP: 4
    Running MP: 6
    Jumping MP: 4 Standard
    Jump Jet Locations: 2 LT, 2 RT                                         2.00
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             10                        0.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 1 HD, 1 CT, 2 LT, 2 RT
Gyro:               Standard                                               1.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV -  88                  5.50

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            8         
                                        Center Torso     8            13       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  3         
                                           L/R Torso     6            10       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  2         
                                             L/R Arm     4            8         
                                             L/R Leg     6            12       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PPC                                          RA        10        3         7.00
Machine Gun                                  LA        0         1         0.50
@MG (1/2) (100)                              CT        -         1         0.50
                                            Free Critical Slots: 32

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      3    Points: 6
4j         1       1       1       0      1     0   Structure:  2
Special Abilities: SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

Daryk

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  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Design Challenge: BugMechs as General-Purpose Troopers?
« Reply #39 on: 16 February 2024, 13:23:10 »
And here's that 4/6/6 thing I mentioned... though you could swap the Small Pulse and Snubbie for an ER PPC too... ;)
Code: [Select]
Falcon Heavy FLC-HN

Mass: 30 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: All Eras (non-canon)
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-F-E
Production Year: 0
Dry Cost: 2,955,940 C-Bills
Total Cost: 2,955,940 C-Bills
Battle Value: 767

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 120 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 180 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
    1  Snub-Nose PPC
    1  Small Pulse Laser
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel                    51 points                1.50
    Internal Locations: 1 HD, 2 CT, 4 LA, 3 RA, 2 LL, 2 RL
Engine:             Fusion Engine                120                       4.00
    Walking MP: 4
    Running MP: 6
    Jumping MP: 6 Improved
    Jump Jet Locations: 3 LT, 3 RT                                         6.00
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             10(20)                    0.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 2 LT, 2 RT, 1 LA, 1 RA
Gyro:               Standard                                               2.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 104                  6.50

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            8         
                                        Center Torso     10           16       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  4         
                                           L/R Torso     7            10       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  4         
                                             L/R Arm     5            10       
                                             L/R Leg     7            14       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Snub-Nose PPC                                RA        10        2         6.00
Small Pulse Laser                            LA        2         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 0

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      3    Points: 8
4/6j       2       1       0       0      1     0   Structure:  3
Special Abilities: ENE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

Speedbump

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 333
Re: Design Challenge: BugMechs as General-Purpose Troopers?
« Reply #40 on: 17 February 2024, 07:16:11 »
Given we're trying to imitate heavy(or atleast medium) mechs with low end lights, there's a surprising lack of Hardened armour going on:
Code: [Select]
Plackart PLK-4RT

Mass: 25 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: Dark Ages
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-F-E
Production Year: 3132
Dry Cost: 2,545,625 C-Bills
Total Cost: 2,545,625 C-Bills
Battle Value: 874

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 100 Light Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h (54.0 km/h)
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 120 meters
Armor: Unknown Hardened
Armament:
    1  Light PPC + PPC Capacitor
    2  ER Medium Lasers
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel                    43 points                1.50
    Internal Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT, 7 LA, 5 RA
Engine:             Light Fusion Engine          100                       2.50
    Walking MP: 4
    Running MP: 6 (5)
    Jumping MP: 4 Standard
    Jump Jet Locations: 2 LL, 2 RL                                         2.00
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             10(20)                    0.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 3 LT, 3 RT
Gyro:               XL                                                     0.50
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor:              Hardened                     AV -  76                  9.50

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            6         
                                        Center Torso     8            12       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  2         
                                           L/R Torso     6            9         
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  2         
                                             L/R Arm     4            7         
                                             L/R Leg     6            10       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER Medium Laser                              HD        5         1         1.00
Light PPC + PPC Capacitor                    RA        10        2         3.00
    Light PPC + PPC Capacitor                RA        5*        1         1.00
ER Medium Laser                              LA        5         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 0

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      5    Points: 9
4j         2       2       1       0      1     0   Structure:  1
Special Abilities: ENE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

Lagrange

  • Lieutenant
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  • Posts: 1425
Re: Design Challenge: BugMechs as General-Purpose Troopers?
« Reply #41 on: 17 February 2024, 09:30:06 »
Bug to me sounds like wings, legs, and annoyance, thus my entry.

4 legs, 2 wings, ERLL+TC+Jump 7 is annoying.  The Light Tag is potentially very annoying.   And, these are cheap at 2M each.

Code: [Select]
Wings, Legs, and Annoyance Bug mech

Mass: 25 tons
Chassis: Standard Quad
Power Plant: 75 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 32.4 kph
Maximum Speed: 54 kph
Jump Jets: Improved
     Jump Capacity: 210 meters
Armor: Standard
Armament:
     1 Light TAG
     1 ER Large Laser
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3145
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-X-D
Cost: 2,034,375 C-bills

Type: Wings, Legs, and annoyance
Technology Base: Mixed (Advanced)
Tonnage: 25
Battle Value: 907

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure                                  2.5
Engine                        75 Fusion               2
Walking MP: 3
Running MP: 5
Jumping MP: 7
Double Heat Sink              10 [20]                 0
XL Gyro                                             0.5
Small Cockpit                                         2
Armor Factor                  96                      6

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         8     
     Center Torso            8         13   
     Center Torso (rear)               3     
     R/L Torso               6         10   
     R/L Torso (rear)                  2     
     FR/L Leg                6         12   
     RR/L Leg                6         12   

Weapons
and Ammo              Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
Double Heat Sink        FRL        2        -       1.0   
Targeting Computer       RT        1        -       1.0   
3 Improved Jump Jet      RT        6        -       3.0   
Double Heat Sink         RT        2        -       1.0   
Double Heat Sink        RLL        2        -       1.0   
Double Heat Sink        FLL        2        -       1.0   
2 Improved Jump Jet      LT        4        -       2.0   
2 Double Heat Sink       LT        4        -       2.0   
Partial Wing           RT/LT      3/3       -       1.5   
Light TAG                HD        1        0       0.5   
ER Large Laser           HD        1        12      4.0   
Double Heat Sink        RRL        2        -       1.0   

Daryk

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  • Posts: 37653
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Design Challenge: BugMechs as General-Purpose Troopers?
« Reply #42 on: 17 February 2024, 10:05:36 »
Interesting, though I'd move one point of armor from the head to the CT to make a surprise AC/20 survivable.

Lagrange

  • Lieutenant
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  • Posts: 1425
Re: Design Challenge: BugMechs as General-Purpose Troopers?
« Reply #43 on: 17 February 2024, 10:14:26 »
Interesting, though I'd move one point of armor from the head to the CT to make a surprise AC/20 survivable.
Tweaked.

Daryk

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  • Posts: 37653
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Design Challenge: BugMechs as General-Purpose Troopers?
« Reply #44 on: 17 February 2024, 10:26:47 »
Even nicer bug! :)

Giovanni Blasini

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  • Posts: 7233
  • And I think it's gonna be a long, long time...
Re: Design Challenge: BugMechs as General-Purpose Troopers?
« Reply #45 on: 18 February 2024, 03:48:45 »
Given we're trying to imitate heavy(or atleast medium) mechs with low end lights, there's a surprising lack of Hardened armour going on:

I'd looked into it, but had trouble making it work.  Yours came out pretty good, though.

Bug to me sounds like wings, legs, and annoyance, thus my entry.

4 legs, 2 wings, ERLL+TC+Jump 7 is annoying.  The Light Tag is potentially very annoying.   And, these are cheap at 2M each.

OK, that's quite surprising.

Now, going back down to 20 tons and trying crazy crap again, hear me out: base movement of 4/6/4, but with a partial wing, which would bring that up to 4/6/6.  I went with standard internal structure on the principle that trying to do endo steel for a cheap BugMech isn't really viable, and too much of an infrastructure vulnerablity.

But, we're still a BugMech?  How do we make it more durable?  Well, we could go with hardened armor, which works out to taking 4 tons, and would add equivalent to another 8 points to the arms and CT.  But hardened armor works on things a little bit bigger, and I needed a bit more mass, which let me try something I hadn't seen yet: modular armor.  With modular armor slotted into each leg and the center torso, we're spending three tons of our payload and, in return, they now have a chance of surviving an AC/20 to the center torso or legs.  Once all three of those modular armor units get ablated, you go back to moving 4/6/6.

Weaponry is...limited.  I went with an ERML in the head, which allows it to still shoot while it's using handheld weaponry.  Two tons doesn't give you much to work with, though MG pods, quad-RL10s, some Magshots, etc.

Edit: Not sure why MegaMekLab doesn’t list it, but I went with a whole-head ejection system, which is why the price is 3.6 million each.  Without that, it’s only 1.6 million per ‘Mech.

Code: [Select]
Stinger STG-4A

Mass: 20 tons
Chassis: Standard Biped
Power Plant: 80 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 32.4 kph
Maximum Speed: 54 kph
Jump Jets: Standard
     Jump Capacity: 150 meters
Armor: Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
     1 ER Medium Laser
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3145
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-X-E
Cost: 3,676,640 C-bills

Type: Stinger
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Tonnage: 20
Battle Value: 522

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure                                    2
Engine                        80 Fusion             2.5
Walking MP: 3
Running MP: 5
Jumping MP: 5
Heat Sink                     10                      0
Gyro                                                  1
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor (Ferro)          69                      4

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         9     
     Center Torso            6         8     
     Center Torso (rear)               4     
     R/L Torso               5         8     
     R/L Torso (rear)                  2     
     R/L Arm                 3         6     
     R/L Leg                 4         8     


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo              Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
Jump Jet                 LL        1        -       0.5   
Modular Armor            LL        1        -       1.0   
Modular Armor            CT        1        -       1.0   
4 Heat Sink              RT        4        -       4.0   
Jump Jet                 RT        1        -       0.5   
3 Heat Sink              LT        3        -       3.0   
Jump Jet                 LT        1        -       0.5   
Partial Wing           RT/LT      4/4       -       1.5   
Jump Jet                 RL        1        -       0.5   
Modular Armor            RL        1        -       1.0   
ER Medium Laser          HD        1        5       1.0   

« Last Edit: 18 February 2024, 07:48:41 by Giovanni Blasini »
"Does anyone know where the love of God goes / When the waves turn the minutes to hours?"
-- Gordon Lightfoot, "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald"

Daryk

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  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Design Challenge: BugMechs as General-Purpose Troopers?
« Reply #46 on: 18 February 2024, 06:23:15 »
Since you're using an ER Medium, I think a Mech Mortar-1 would be on the table for a hand held... ;)

Giovanni Blasini

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  • Posts: 7233
  • And I think it's gonna be a long, long time...
Re: Design Challenge: BugMechs as General-Purpose Troopers?
« Reply #47 on: 18 February 2024, 07:58:55 »
A Mech Mortar/1 is 2.0 tons all by its lonesome, at least for an Inner Sphere one.  That’s the full lifting capability for a 20-tonner, leaving you no weight for ammo.

That said, if you can find a friendly Sea Fox dealer to manufacture you a Clan Mech Mortar/1 pod, you can pull it off. You should even be able to handle domestic ammo production, since they have the same performance there.
"Does anyone know where the love of God goes / When the waves turn the minutes to hours?"
-- Gordon Lightfoot, "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald"

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
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  • Posts: 37653
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Design Challenge: BugMechs as General-Purpose Troopers?
« Reply #48 on: 18 February 2024, 08:23:13 »
Yeah, the clanner version is the one I meant.

Giovanni Blasini

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  • Posts: 7233
  • And I think it's gonna be a long, long time...
Re: Design Challenge: BugMechs as General-Purpose Troopers?
« Reply #49 on: 18 February 2024, 08:38:01 »
Yeah, the clanner version is the one I meant.

Yeah those would definitely be worthwhile if available, and I suspect cheaper than Clan LRM-5s would be.  Single-target damage is lower, but area-effect is fun.

You know, do handheld rules account for melee weapons or shields?
"Does anyone know where the love of God goes / When the waves turn the minutes to hours?"
-- Gordon Lightfoot, "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald"

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
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  • Posts: 37653
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Design Challenge: BugMechs as General-Purpose Troopers?
« Reply #50 on: 18 February 2024, 08:43:03 »
I don't think so, but I could be wrong...

Giovanni Blasini

  • Lieutenant Colonel
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  • Posts: 7233
  • And I think it's gonna be a long, long time...
Re: Design Challenge: BugMechs as General-Purpose Troopers?
« Reply #51 on: 19 February 2024, 05:31:01 »
This was originally going to go in the Recognition Guide Challenge, because I wanted to see if I could do a Wasp C equivalent without Clan tech, but I realized the end result would probably work here as well:


Wasp WSP-4P

Mass: 20 tons
Chassis: Irian Chassis Second Generation Class 20 Endo Steel
Power Plant: Magna 120
Cruising Speed: 64.8 kph
Maximum Speed: 97.2 kph
Jump Jets: Rawlings 52
     Jump Capacity: 180 meters
Armor: Type-1 Ferro Fibrous
Armament:
     1 Light PPC
     1 SRM 2 (I-OS)
Manufacturer: Kali Yama Weapons Industries Inc.
     Primary Factory: Kalidasa
Communication System: Irian E.A.R.
Targeting & Tracking System: Wasat Aggressor
Introduction Year: 3143
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-E
Cost: 2,180,640 C-bills


Type: Wasp
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Tonnage: 20
Battle Value: 566

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure            Endo Steel              1
Engine                        120 Fusion              4
   Walking MP: 6
   Running MP: 9
   Jumping MP: 6
Heat Sink                     10                      0
XL Gyro                                               1
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor (Ferro)          62                    3.5

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         8     
     Center Torso            6         8     
     Center Torso (rear)               4     
     R/L Torso               5         6     
     R/L Torso (rear)                  2     
     R/L Arm                 3         6     
     R/L Leg                 4         7     


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo              Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage   
SRM 2 (I-OS)             LL        1        2       0.5   
Jump Jet                 LL        1        -       0.5   
2 Heat Sink              RT        2        -       2.0   
2 Jump Jet               RT        2        -       1.0   
2 Heat Sink              LT        2        -       2.0   
2 Jump Jet               LT        2        -       1.0   
Heat Sink                RL        1        -       1.0   
Jump Jet                 RL        1        -       0.5   
Heat Sink                HD        1        -       1.0   
PPC Capacitor            RA        1        -       1.0   
Light PPC                RA        2        5       3.0   
   
« Last Edit: 19 February 2024, 06:21:12 by Giovanni Blasini »
"Does anyone know where the love of God goes / When the waves turn the minutes to hours?"
-- Gordon Lightfoot, "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald"

PuppyLikesLaserPointers

  • Captain
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  • Posts: 1833
Re: Design Challenge: BugMechs as General-Purpose Troopers?
« Reply #52 on: 19 February 2024, 06:16:08 »
Given we're trying to imitate heavy(or atleast medium) mechs with low end lights, there's a surprising lack of Hardened armour going on:
Code: [Select]
Plackart PLK-4RT

Mass: 25 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: Dark Ages
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-F-E
Production Year: 3132
Dry Cost: 2,545,625 C-Bills
Total Cost: 2,545,625 C-Bills
Battle Value: 874

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 100 Light Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h (54.0 km/h)
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 120 meters
Armor: Unknown Hardened
Armament:
    1  Light PPC + PPC Capacitor
    2  ER Medium Lasers
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel                    43 points                1.50
    Internal Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT, 7 LA, 5 RA
Engine:             Light Fusion Engine          100                       2.50
    Walking MP: 4
    Running MP: 6 (5)
    Jumping MP: 4 Standard
    Jump Jet Locations: 2 LL, 2 RL                                         2.00
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             10(20)                    0.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 3 LT, 3 RT
Gyro:               XL                                                     0.50
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor:              Hardened                     AV -  76                  9.50

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            6         
                                        Center Torso     8            12       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  2         
                                           L/R Torso     6            9         
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  2         
                                             L/R Arm     4            7         
                                             L/R Leg     6            10       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER Medium Laser                              HD        5         1         1.00
Light PPC + PPC Capacitor                    RA        10        2         3.00
    Light PPC + PPC Capacitor                RA        5*        1         1.00
ER Medium Laser                              LA        5         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 0

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      5    Points: 9
4j         2       2       1       0      1     0   Structure:  1
Special Abilities: ENE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

Well I did made a design that uses hardened armor already, but yeah my one was the first one and was quite surprised before wrote that because it would be one of the most useful component.

Breetai

  • Sergeant
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  • Posts: 142
Re: Design Challenge: BugMechs as General-Purpose Troopers?
« Reply #53 on: 19 February 2024, 17:02:15 »
This is why you always check your pockets.

Code: [Select]
Warhammer WHM-QT-P00

Mass: 30 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Introductory
Era: All Eras (non-canon)
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/C-E-D
Production Year: 3025
Cost: 2,066,350 C-Bills
Battle Value: 735

Chassis: Unknown Standard
Power Plant: Unknown 180 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 64.8 km/h
Maximum Speed: 97.2 km/h
Jump Jets: None
    Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
    2  Medium Lasers
    1  LRM-5
    2  Small Lasers
    4  Machine Guns
Manufacturer: Black Hawk Mechworks
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

Additional:
Dagnabbit, Reba, I dun tol' you not ta leave mah Warhammer in mah shorts when
yer washin 'em.


Now it's all fun-size like.


================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      51 points                3.00
Engine:             Fusion Engine                180                       7.00
    Walking MP: 6
    Running MP: 9
    Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             10                        0.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 2 LT, 1 RT
Gyro:               Standard                                               2.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA    R: SH+UA+LA
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 104                  6.50

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            8         
                                        Center Torso     10           15       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  5         
                                           L/R Torso     7            10       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  4         
                                             L/R Arm     5            10       
                                             L/R Leg     7            14       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Medium Laser                                 RA        3         1         1.00
Medium Laser                                 LA        3         1         1.00
Small Laser                                  RT        1         1         0.50
2 Machine Guns                               RT        0         2         1.00
LRM-5                                        RT        2         1         2.00
Small Laser                                  LT        1         1         0.50
2 Machine Guns                               LT        0         2         1.00
@LRM-5 (24)                                  RT        -         1         1.00
@MG (1/2) (100)                              LT        -         1         0.50
                                            Free Critical Slots: 35

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      3    Points: 7
6          3       2       1       0      1     0   Structure:  3
Special Abilities: SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA


kindalas

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 463
Re: Design Challenge: BugMechs as General-Purpose Troopers?
« Reply #54 on: 22 February 2024, 00:23:30 »
Just a simple Trooper, it has a light PPC and a ER Flamer as weaponry.

It has a C3 slave (that could be swapped with a TAG system) and a targeting computer.

It jumps 150m and tops out at 84 kph.

It has Endo-Steel, Heavy Ferro Armor and Compact Heatsinks.

It is about as basic as you can get, it really has only a single gun but it has range that is absent from most 20-25 ton mechs.

The drawback is that it is fairly tech heavy and that it needs to be accompanied by a C3 master mech which is difficult to get on a lighter machine.

Code: [Select]
BG-1 Bug

Mass: 20 tons
Chassis: Endo Steel Biped
Power Plant: 100 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 54 kph
Maximum Speed: 86.4 kph
Jump Jets: Standard
     Jump Capacity: 150 meters
Armor: Heavy Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
     1 Light PPC
     1 ER Flamer
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-E
Cost: 1,753,240 C-bills

Type: New
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Tonnage: 20
Battle Value: 559

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure            Endo Steel              1
Engine                        100 Fusion              3
Walking MP: 5
Running MP: 8
Jumping MP: 5
Compact Heat Sink             10                      0
Gyro                                                  1
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor (Heavy Ferro)    69                    3.5

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         9     
     Center Torso            6         9     
     Center Torso (rear)               3     
     R/L Torso               5         8     
     R/L Torso (rear)                  2     
     R/L Arm                 3         6     
     R/L Leg                 4         8     


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo               Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
Jump Jet                  CT        1        -       0.5   
2 Compact Heat Sinks      CT        1        -       3.0   
2 Jump Jet                RT        2        -       1.0   
Targeting Computer        RT        1        -       1.0   
Light PPC                 RT        2        5       3.0   
ER Flamer                 LA        1        4       1.0   
2 Jump Jet                LT        2        -       1.0   
C3 Computer               HD        1        -       1.0   

Giovanni Blasini

  • Lieutenant Colonel
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  • Posts: 7233
  • And I think it's gonna be a long, long time...
Re: Design Challenge: BugMechs as General-Purpose Troopers?
« Reply #55 on: 22 February 2024, 02:03:18 »
Yeah, that's a lot of tech, but it doesn't mean it doesn't work.  As for C3 masters, you could always put those in tanks or mobile HQ units.
"Does anyone know where the love of God goes / When the waves turn the minutes to hours?"
-- Gordon Lightfoot, "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald"

Dragon Cat

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  • Not Dead Until I Say So
Re: Design Challenge: BugMechs as General-Purpose Troopers?
« Reply #56 on: 22 February 2024, 02:42:31 »
Code: [Select]
   
 Soldier 
 3025 IS Light

Original:  https://battletech.doknet.hu/mechfactory_frame.php?call=displaymech&id=10000096

Source: My Own Custom /
Type/Model: Soldier 
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3025
Config: Biped BattleMech
Rules: Level 2, Standard design

Mass: 20 tons
Chassis:
Power Plant: 80 Fusion
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Running Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: 4 Standard Jump Jet
Jump Capacity: 120 meters
Jump Jet Manufacturer:
Armor Type:  Standard
Armament:
 1 Machine Gun
 1 Medium Laser
 1 Rocket Launcher 15 (OS)
 1 Medium Laser
 1 Rocket Launcher 15 (OS)
Manufacturer:
 Location:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:

   
---------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model:  Soldier 
Mass: 20 tons

Equipment:                                 Crits    Mass
Int. Struct.:  33 pts Standard               0      2.00
Engine:         80 Fusion                    6      2.50
   Walking MP:   4
   Running MP:   6
   Jumping MP:   4
Heat Sinks:     10 Single                    7      0.00
 (Heat Sink Loc.: 1 LA,1 LL,3 LT,1 RA,1 RL)
Gyro:                                        4      1.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors:                5      3.00
L: Sh+UA+LA+H    R: Sh+UA+LA+H               8      0.00
Armor Factor:   69 Standard                  0      4.50

                          Internal    Armor
                          Structure   Value
   Head:                      3          9
   Center Torso:              6          9
   Center Torso (Rear):                  3
   L/R Side Torso:            5        8/8
   L/R Side Torso (Rear):              2/2
   L/R Arm:                   3        6/6
   L/R Leg:                   4        8/8
 
Weapons and Equipment    Loc  Heat  Ammo   Crits     Mass
---------------------------------------------------------
1 Machine Gun            CT       0  100      2      1.00
   (Ammo Locations: 1 LT*)
1 Medium Laser           LA       3           1      1.00
1 Rocket Launcher 15 (OS)LT       4           2      1.00
1 Medium Laser           RA       3           1      1.00
1 Rocket Launcher 15 (OS)RT       4           2      1.00
4 Standard Jump Jets:    -        0           4      2.00
   (Jump Jet Loc: 1 LL,1 LT,1 RL,1 RT)
---------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                          14           4      7.00
Crits and Tons Left:                         28             
 
Calculated Factors
Total Cost:        1,216,640 C-Bill
Battle Value (BV1):471
Battle Value (BV2):484 

Decided to go proper Mech this time in the periphery with the lowest standard tonnage actually surprised how much I got on it

Full armour, ok mobility, 2 lasers for everything, machine gun for the PBI and 2 rocket launchers for one time fire support/punch
My three main Alternate Timeline with Thanks fan-fiction threads are in the links below. I'm always open to suggestions or additions to be incorporated so if you feel you wish to add something feel free. There's non-canon units, equipment, people, events, erm... Solar Systems spread throughout so please enjoy

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,20515.0.html - Part 1

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,52013.0.html - Part 2

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,79196.0.html - Part 3

Daryk

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  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Design Challenge: BugMechs as General-Purpose Troopers?
« Reply #57 on: 22 February 2024, 04:38:51 »
Not bad, but it looks like you have room to replace the RL-15s with 10s... :)

Liam's Ghost

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  • Miss Chitty finds your honor rules quaint.
Re: Design Challenge: BugMechs as General-Purpose Troopers?
« Reply #58 on: 22 February 2024, 04:41:20 »
Not bad, but it looks like you have room to replace the RL-15s with 10s... :)

If you have RL-15s you always have room to replace them with 10s.

Man I wish they'd written in some good reason to actually use the larger rocket packs.
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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  • Posts: 1833
Re: Design Challenge: BugMechs as General-Purpose Troopers?
« Reply #59 on: 22 February 2024, 11:59:09 »
It is about as basic as you can get, it really has only a single gun but it has range that is absent from most 20-25 ton mechs.

On the meta of such low tonnage trooper mechs it should be quite viable trait. You don't need to stick with just this design but nothing else either, so those mechs could be backed by the other mechs suited for engage the enemy at closer distance.

Also, since there is a canon mech with similar tonnage that does not have any weapons save for a light tag but rely on its tag and Nova CEWS as its 'weapon', it's not actually 'lightly' armed either - for its real weapon would be the series of support fires from the network.