BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat
Off Topic and Technical Support => Off Topic => Topic started by: BATTLEMASTER on 20 November 2019, 09:02:35
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I'm thinking about switching to Linux Mint, but I want to make sure that I can get something like Autodesk Fusion 360 to run on it. What's everyone else going to do?
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I'm thinking about switching to Linux Mint, but I want to make sure that I can get something like Autodesk Fusion 360 to run on it. What's everyone else going to do?
I pretty much already upgraded to win 10 as part of my pc upgrade.
my old computer was running win 7 on a intel i7 960 with 18gb ram, my new computer is running on an intel i7 8700 with 32gb ram
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Not sure. Strongly considering Ubuntu. I'm just sick of Microsoft.
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Whatever requires the least initial effort.
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my mom was still using XP (with equally outdated virus protection) until she got a macbook last year
i still have no idea how her identity didn't get stolen
i'm too lazy to do linux so i migrated to win 10 during the initial release
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I'm running Win 10 because that was what was installed on my newest 'puter.
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I'll be using Win7 a couple months beyond the support deadline and will be pulling my hair out in despair. There will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth.
I like Win7. I can't quite put my finger on it, but it seemed like a very stable and user-friendly member of the Windows family. I've dipped my toe into Win10 waters and found it difficult to work with. Maybe I just hate the changes over Win7.
However, truth be told, I presume I'll end up with Win10 because it's the least effort. Frankly, I don't care enough to put work into getting a Linux system to work for me.
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The 5 year support is a load of BS . . . planned obsolescence . . . but I guess they got tired of people using older software for a decade or more- I do not remember how long I used '98 and XP. I despise Micro$haft but I do not want to mess with a bunch of stuff so I have Weirdo's attitude, though I am not a fan of Win10 at all. I am an old curmudgeon, I want to go to the same fricking places to find the applications and programs that are part of the OS suite. Quite moving them about so you can claim improved functionality!
I should probably stop now . . .
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Stay with 7 or upgrade to 10. I find I like win 10 as much as I don't care for MS. Still may make this computer into a dual boot win10/ubuntu machine. Should probably get a dedicated HD though so I don't have to partition this drive for both.
Just because support ends doesn't mean you need to stop using it. Just make sure you have a good AV and antimalware utility and don't use Internet Exploder. Most software should continue supporting Win7 (and perhaps XP) for another 5-10 years. At least for normal non-gaming software.
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Now running Win 10. Learning one of the Linux flavors would be interesting but very low on my list of priorities. Plus most of the software I use is Win only, and some Win 10 only.
Win 10 isn't *that* much different or frustrating. Maybe because I'm running the Pro rather than the Home version?
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I just tried Windows Update (with Win7) and I get an error message which in English (translating from Finnish) goes something like this:
Windows Update cannot at this moment check availability of updates, because service is not running. You may need to restart the computer.
I've had that for last couple of years or so. Update history gives me a white window with an OK button. I recall having same (or remarkably similar) experiences with my laptop. So as far as I am concerned, Win7 support has ended well over a year ago. Win8 on my tablet still finds and receives updates.
The 5 year support is a load of BS . . . planned obsolescence . . . but I guess they got tired of people using older software for a decade or more-
Android is worse: less than 5 year support for the hardware, and after that, no new Android version anymore for it. Not too long ago I had read from a computer magazine that newest OS update for Macintosh breaks compatibility with many 32-bit programs. What comes to Linux, most of the newest distributions require gigabytes worth of RAM and the low end recommends 1 GB of it. Old Linux & distributions may be insufficient to run the newest software. There is MS-DOS compatible OS with continued support (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeDOS), but it might not get that much of new software anymore.
So whatever OS you choose to go with, you'll have some problems. Eventually.
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Win 10 isn't *that* much different or frustrating. Maybe because I'm running the Pro rather than the Home version?
For me it's simply a matter of not trusting Microsoft as a partner anymore. The hard push towards software as service has left me with a very sour taste in my mouth. I'm deeply concerned that Microsoft will decide I need to pay a monthly subscription for the use of my own PC, & the poor privacy controls at launch did nothing to encourage comfort. Most of the changes to the UI of Windows 10 are irritating, but not deal-breaking, but I find myself asking what is any of this doing for me? Between myself & Microsoft, MS appears to be the only side gaining by me moving to 10.
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I must be going against the flow - I find a lot of the little features in Win10 - in how apps work & handle, shortcuts & task bars, etc - hit the sweet spot for me. I did lose some access to the under layers of the OS, but not needing them as much as with Win7.
Writing this on Win10 - but I did buy a (discounted) Office package, rather than Office365. SaaS does not appeal for home systems. Yes, I could have used one of the free office clones, but the shortcuts/keystrokes are different, and I'm using Office for the vast majority of my professional work.
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The 5 year support is a load of BS . . . planned obsolescence . . . but I guess they got tired of people using older software for a decade or more- I do not remember how long I used '98 and XP. I despise Micro$haft but I do not want to mess with a bunch of stuff so I have Weirdo's attitude, though I am not a fan of Win10 at all. I am an old curmudgeon, I want to go to the same fricking places to find the applications and programs that are part of the OS suite. Quite moving them about so you can claim improved functionality!
I should probably stop now . . .
YOu sound like me. I upgraded to xp, after they ceased supporting win 95.. And upped to 8.1 after they ceased supporting XP.. HAD they kept supporting it, i'd have stayed ON xp.
For me it's simply a matter of not trusting Microsoft as a partner anymore. The hard push towards software as service has left me with a very sour taste in my mouth. I'm deeply concerned that Microsoft will decide I need to pay a monthly subscription for the use of my own PC, & the poor privacy controls at launch did nothing to encourage comfort. Most of the changes to the UI of Windows 10 are irritating, but not deal-breaking, but I find myself asking what is any of this doing for me? Between myself & Microsoft, MS appears to be the only side gaining by me moving to 10.
I've heard of that before, someone thinking Microshaft, will go to a 'pay to use' service for OS, like they did with microshaft's office 360.
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For me it's simply a matter of not trusting Microsoft as a partner anymore. The hard push towards software as service has left me with a very sour taste in my mouth. I'm deeply concerned that Microsoft will decide I need to pay a monthly subscription for the use of my own PC, & the poor privacy controls at launch did nothing to encourage comfort. Most of the changes to the UI of Windows 10 are irritating, but not deal-breaking, but I find myself asking what is any of this doing for me? Between myself & Microsoft, MS appears to be the only side gaining by me moving to 10.
I feel the same way, I will likely be buying a new PC/laptop in 2020, but I am severely doubting if I should go win10.
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When I replaced my old computer, it came with Windows 10, and I will stick with it until Microsoft bans Windows 10 like the other versions. When that time comes, I'm defecting to Mac. My cousin is an expert with them and can help me with everything. I made the decision after the latest big update, which screwed with my ability to print. Every time they ask me to restart my computer for an update, I feel a sense of terror and I am not going to put up with that longer than I need to.
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I just tried Windows Update (with Win7) and I get an error message which in English (translating from Finnish) goes something like this:I've had that for last couple of years or so. Update history gives me a white window with an OK button. I recall having same (or remarkably similar) experiences with my laptop. So as far as I am concerned, Win7 support has ended well over a year ago. Win8 on my tablet still finds and receives updates.
That sounds like an issue with one of the required services for the update system is turned off.
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I've been running Win10 Pro for four or five years now--and have been maintaining it at every branch of my library for about the same amount of time (as I am the IT Department, as well as whatever else I need to do--amazing what you end up doing when you're the only one on staff not afraid of computers. . . .)
I miss Win7, which was a much better OS, but I've learned to live with (and, where possible, turn off) every little eccentricity of Win10.
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Honestly, the most stable version of Windows I ever used was NT.
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my dad in most cases hates win 8+ the fix that got him to be content with win 10 is the classic shell addon, which makes the start menu behave more like win 7 (and put the free games back in)
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I manually reinstall the games I like after every dang full patch. Killing Cortana is a pain too...
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I am probably going to be on Windows 7 for a bit as I need a computer, but can't necessarily afford by January because some keeps breaking in my house.
Writing this on Win10 - but I did buy a (discounted) Office package, rather than Office365. SaaS does not appeal for home systems.
What exactly did you pick up? I was under the impression Office365 was all they were going to support after January and I'm not really looking forward to buying an Office subscription.
Honestly, the most stable version of Windows I ever used was NT.
NT and XP were both reliable O/S. If NT had an issue though I found it a pain to fix. For me that was likely because of the functional differences between NT vs. 95/98 in where certain things were found. I have no love for MS, less for Mac, and sadly don't have the time to learn Linux.
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I will stay with Win 7 for some time, it's not like computer will just stop working.
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What exactly did you pick up? I was under the impression Office365 was all they were going to support after January and I'm not really looking forward to buying an Office subscription.
Heck, I used Office97(?) All the way up until they broke the Windows program where it would not run the old version of Outlook . . . I STILL use Word from that suite, just wish I could get Outlook to run. I am not doing the subscription.
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Honestly, the most stable version of Windows I ever used was NT.
Considering NT 3 made it to version 3.51 Service Pack 5 it wasn't really all that persistent either.
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Killing Cortana is a pain too...
Don't worry, Microsoft have just announced they're gonna do that for you.
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Haven't run windows on bare metal since 2008 if I had a choice, (some work pcs I don't get to choose). So meh...
The win10 laptop from work isn't bad, but there's a reason I get stuff done faster on linux.
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ignore that it's not supported and stick with what i'm using now. i've got a laptop that came with win10 and it's given me fits every time it has a problem. can't even entirely turn it off because it keeps itself in standby mode even after i've don't everything in my power to just power it down for some reason.
besides, given their recent track record what's their support worth anymore? they don't fix a problem until it's actively biting them in the rear and knowing how many governments probably haven't finished migrating from old, OLD systems they'll still roll THOSE patches out to avoid shame.
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Going against the flow here.
Already handled. I have Win10 on my one desktop that had Win7. My one Win8 laptop got bumped to 8.1, then 10. My one Laptop with Win7 has Linux Mint on it. Actually, it went through several distros(I know, test on a stick, but I was actually hoping to go with Ubuntu MATE full time, long story) before going back to Mint. Which reminds me, I need to fix the monitor problem.
Oh, and my barebones which might've had Win7 on it has Mint. :)
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I feel the same way, I will likely be buying a new PC/laptop in 2020, but I am severely doubting if I should go win10.
That's one of the suckiest things about buying new laptops these days, you really only get two choices.. Apple OS or microshaft OS.. I've never seen a store offer one with Linux or the like..
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Considering NT 3 made it to version 3.51 Service Pack 5 it wasn't really all that persistent either.
I did a seven month deployment with only two reboots, and neither was due to a blue screen. This Win10 box blue screens at least once a month.
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That's one of the suckiest things about buying new laptops these days, you really only get two choices.. Apple OS or microshaft OS.. I've never seen a store offer one with Linux or the like..
Google has been pushing their Chromebook lately. I'm not sure how I feel about that, though, considering how much information Google deals with on a daily basis.
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The schools out here use chrombooks. My daughter has had hers for about 4 years now. They start handing them out for home use at 3rd grade. If you don't buy the offered insurance you are SOL if it breaks for something not covered by the warranty or it gets lost/stolen.
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I've never seen a store offer one with Linux or the like..
Chrome OS (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrome_OS) is a thing you know? At least Acer and Samsung make laptops (called Chromebook) with it. You can also ask around where to get Linux computers. I had visited a computer store that sells used & refurbished computers for cheap, and they can install Linux on anyone of them if so desired.
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I was under the impression Office365 was all they were going to support after January and I'm not really looking forward to buying an Office subscription.
End-of-support for MS Office products are:
- Office 2013 SP1 : Mainstream ended, Extended 04/2023
- Office 2016 : Mainstream 10/2020, Extended 10/2025
- Office 2019 : Mainstream 10/2023, Extended 10/2025
For Office 365 Microsoft reserves the right to end support at any point with 12 months notice.
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The schools out here use chrombooks. My daughter has had hers for about 4 years now. They start handing them out for home use at 3rd grade. If you don't buy the offered insurance you are SOL if it breaks for something not covered by the warranty or it gets lost/stolen.
I'd tell the school "sorry my kid wants something else"..
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My older computer still has Win7. I only use it for word processing, surfing the internet, and other simple things. I recently got a new computer with Win10. That one is used for gaming and streaming. So, I'm not worried about support ending.
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My older computer still has Win7. I only use it for word processing, surfing the internet, and other simple things. I recently got a new computer with Win10. That one is used for gaming and streaming. So, I'm not worried about support ending.
I have a desk top with WIN-XP still, that i use for my stand-alone gaming - Command and conquer, empire earth, SW battle front 1 and 2 (the old ones)..
I also keep it for backing up my word docs, pics and such on.
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I find it hilarious that using "XP" without the proper casing invokes that particular emoji from the forum...
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All unsupported means is don't take it on the internet very often. It's the security updates that are important.
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I'm thinking about switching to Linux Mint, but I want to make sure that I can get something like Autodesk Fusion 360 to run on it. What's everyone else going to do?
I've been running versions of Ubuntu (lately Kubuntu, KDE Plasma 5 is adequately mature) as my sole OS across desktop + laptops for several years. In the past year or so I nabbed an old Panasonic Toughbook and loaded it with Win10 for running a few games + apps that don't work well/at all under Wine.
I'm not certain exactly what functionality you desire from Autodesk Fusion 360, but consider:
-the version of Catia used to design the Eurofighter Typhoon runs under Wine very well (link (https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=6153))
-Blender is pretty damn good these days for 3d artwork, but I've never really liked Blender's workflow (back in high school I used 3ds Max and that really set my interface/workflow expectations)
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End-of-support for MS Office products are:
- Office 2013 SP1 : Mainstream ended, Extended 04/2023
- Office 2016 : Mainstream 10/2020, Extended 10/2025
- Office 2019 : Mainstream 10/2023, Extended 10/2025
For Office 365 Microsoft reserves the right to end support at any point with 12 months notice.
I'm using office 2010. I suppose if I can find one those for cheap it might be worth it. Still have to get a new computer though those to have any value.
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I'm using office 2010.
Extended support end October 2020.
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I use open office, so i don't have that issue.
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I did a seven month deployment with only two reboots, and neither was due to a blue screen. This Win10 box blue screens at least once a month.
I worked customer-support IT from 2000-2006 and I gotta say NT and 2000 were by far the best Windows products ever made
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I never experienced 2000... the Navy skipped that version as far as I know...
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I worked customer-support IT from 2000-2006 and I gotta say NT and 2000 were by far the best Windows products ever made
I ran 2000 Server on a box for 10 years pretty much continuously (i think i rebooted it twice in that time to update some settings...).
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I'm running Win10 on all my stuff and have been since it released.
Macs have great designs, but I've never been a fan of their OSs. And Google/Android I wouldn't trust with running on any device, be it a computer or phone.
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I haven't even USED a mac since System 7 (IT'S COMING, OKAY?!) Talk about nostalgia.
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I'm running Win10 on all my stuff and have been since it released.
Macs have great designs, but I've never been a fan of their OSs. And Google/Android I wouldn't trust with running on any device, be it a computer or phone.
I too have been running 10 on most PCs, upgraded as soon as it was available. Not sure what a lot of you guys are doing with your PC's, but the only BSODs I've had have been a direct result of faulty hardware or bad drivers. Easy to fix if you can work out exactly what the problem is.
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I haven't even USED a mac since System 7 (IT'S COMING, OKAY?!) Talk about nostalgia.
The switch to OS X was what drove me to Windows after years of using Macs.
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Meh. The only Win7 computer I still own or use isn't connected to the internet -- it's an overglorified media player/word processor at this point. So I'm not overly concerned. Maybe someday, if I care enough, I might use that as a testbed for Linux or something, but for now, … meh.
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I'm not certain exactly what functionality you desire from Autodesk Fusion 360, but consider:
-the version of Catia used to design the Eurofighter Typhoon runs under Wine very well (link (https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=6153))
-Blender is pretty damn good these days for 3d artwork, but I've never really liked Blender's workflow (back in high school I used 3ds Max and that really set my interface/workflow expectations)
I use Fusion 360 for 3D printing. I make stuff for my Transformers collecting hobby as well as for the military vehicle restoration (yes, the real trucks) and modeling. I'm most familiar with Autodesk products having used them throughout my career, so I'm not sure what else is out there, especially for Linux.
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Just plastic parts, or metal too? ???
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Just plastic for now. I'm thinking about quitting my day job and going large scale 3D print manufacturing starting with historical automotive restoration. But I digress... Need to figure out if Fusion 360 will work on some flavor of Linux!
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Good to know, thanks! Best of luck with the manufacturing angle... :thumbsup:
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For those running older versions of windows, has anyone looked into PCmatic? I haven't used their products, but I remember one commercial of theirs mentioning that they support older versions of windows. They might make patches for those versions as well.
I don't really care for windows 10 myself. I have tried using it on my desktop a few years back and the damn thing crashed constantly. I know what i am doing, but the os was just unstable and I decided to stick with 7. My laptop came with 10 and I have not had a problem with it, which makes me believe that in 10's early stages it may have had issues that have been resolved.
For several years I have really liked the idea of Linux, but when it comes to gaming it has been a no-go. I have heard that there was WINE that could run some games that were designed for windows, but never the games I was playing. Considering the windows office package on my laptop expired I have only increased in my dislike for windows since I bought the laptop for school. As much as I dislike MicroSquish, there is no chances in hell that im going to switch to an apple product.
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When you says Windows crashed, do you mean the actual OS (BSOD, etc.) or the running program?
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I've been messing with Win10 on a spare PC and will probably end up migrating at some point over the Christmas break. I've got three desktops and a laptop to migrate so it might take me a while. Gaming means that xinuL isn't really an option, and while I find it ugly in the extreme and the lack of control over updates is annoying, I'll probably adapt over time.
Besides, I hear that moving to Win10 might give my GTX980Ti and GTX1060Ti access to newer versions of DirectX.
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System76, Zareason, HP and Dell, but at a premium.
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Can you still use Windows 7? It still works.
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I set up dual-booting Linux Mint alongside my current Windows 7 installation. I think I will bite the bullet and try upgrading my Windows 7 partition to 10 and use that only for gaming and maybe CAD. I will use Linux for everything else.
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I set up dual-booting Linux Mint alongside my current Windows 7 installation. I think I will bite the bullet and try upgrading my Windows 7 partition to 10 and use that only for gaming and maybe CAD. I will use Linux for everything else.
And that's probably a really good option for a lot of people. Win 10 has issues for many (I don't share them, but I get it) but a lot of those can be abstracted to reduce a lot of the pain points. With a sedate Linux experience as your daily driver, your experience can be mostly painless.
Shoot, if you're a Steam gamer, Linux support ain't that bad these days. Even less rebooting.
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Can you still use Windows 7? It still works.
The laptop my GF uses for her hobby business uses Win 7 Pro.
And yes, it still runs fine.
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And it will probably run fine for years, as long as she doesn't encounter any malware. There won't be any further patches to defend against that after January.
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I haven't used Windows 7 since 2012, haven't lost anything to viruses, everything runs great, and I up date to the latest versions as they come down.
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For those who are planning to dual-boot, the Linux Mint live USB flash drive installer may have a problem giving you the option to install Linux alongside Windows, which affects the disk partitioning tool. I think I had to reboot the live USB drive to get the partitioning tool to work properly. From there everything else was easy!
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For those who are planning to dual-boot, the Linux Mint live USB flash drive installer may have a problem giving you the option to install Linux alongside Windows, which affects the disk partitioning tool. I think I had to reboot the live USB drive to get the partitioning tool to work properly. From there everything else was easy!
Good point. I was trying to create a Mint live USB and had a bunch of trouble with unknown cause. It mysteriously went away so it might have been this.
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Well, the actual question is why aren´t you upgrading to Windows 10?
I think it is the best option right? I mean it is not the best OS, but you won´t be missing something compared to Win7
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Well, the actual question is why aren´t you upgrading to Windows 10?
In my GF's case (See post further up-thread...), it's mainly she still uses XP era software and 7 Pro can still run them reasonably well. Plus any real upgrading is not a cost-wise possibility right now.
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In my GF's case (See post further up-thread...), it's mainly she still uses XP era software and 7 Pro can still run them reasonably well. Plus any real upgrading is not a cost-wise possibility right now.
So you missed when there was a free upgrade to Windows 10 in 2016?
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So you missed when there was a free upgrade to Windows 10 in 2016?
Upgrading to a worse OS when it is free?
Windows OS need several years of 'Open Beta' before they are ready for proper use.
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Whats worse with Win10 over Win7?
I'm happy with it. Been a seemless transtion with no problems.
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Well, the actual question is why aren´t you upgrading to Windows 10?
Maybe some just don't like being FORCED to upgrade.
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You can still upgrade for free from Win 7/8. Did it last week. It has to be like for like (home-home, etc) but it still works just fine.
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Whats worse with Win10 over Win7?
I think that's one of those things that can be more subjective than objective in many ways.
I used my three months of lockdown to get all my Win7 PCs migrated to Win10 and it's been a very mixed experience.
Things I find Win10 does worse than Win7:
- Refusal to allow installation with a local account unless you have internet access physically disabled during the install
- Adverts on the start menu
- Downloading unwanted software without permission (usually games from the MS store)
- Even more telemetry
- TWO unwanted browsers that I can't uninstall
- Inability to control updates
- Forced driver updates that have required a reformat & reinstall three times (across two PCs) in the last 6 weeks
- Settings scattered between the Settings App and the Control Panel
- Ugly interface (Personally I think the Windows interface peaked between Win2000 and Win7 Classic Theme)
- REINSTALLING THINGS I UNINSTALLED WITHOUT ASKING PERMISSION!!! (I discovered literally as I was typing this that OneDrive has been reinstalled after I removed it and now I can't uninstall it because it has no entry in the Control Panel programs list
- Lots of new unwanted apps that I can't uninstall
- Reseting my customizations when installing upaftes (sometimes)
Some of these are fixable with 3rd party apps but I'm annoyed that I have to spend so much time doing research & testing.
Things Win10 does better than Win7:
- Mandatory automatic security updates - I think this is a good thing. It's the forced updates of "features" and drivers that I don't like.
- Windows Defender seems to be a basically competent security suite
- Multi-monitor toolbars
I can live with Win10, and many of my problems are minor compared to the stability issues of 95, 98, Millenium, and XP (I never used Vista or 8 except for fixing problems for friends & family), but it's a lot of frustration I'd have liked to avoid.
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Whats worse with Win10 over Win7?
I'm happy with it. Been a seemless transtion with no problems.
I've been running Windows 10 since pre-release. The only Microsoft operating systems I like more for desktop/laptop use are Windows Server 2016 and Windows Server 2019. In fact, I'm still trying to figure out how to work around PAE issues with the old Pentium M chip in my IBM ThinkPad T42 circa 2004 to get it to install there, and dual-boot FreeDOS and Windows 10, rather than triple-boot FreeDOS, Windows XP and Linux Mint. Which means that, yes, I like it better than XP. Or Linux. Or Windows 7.
With that said...I'm less keen on the changes Windows 10 made for tablet use, walking back a lot of the tablet and touch-enabled features that were present in Windows 8/8.1. Windows 10 Tablet mode works fine, but Windows 8/8.1 tablet mode was better.
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Maybe some just don't like being FORCED to upgrade.
You're not being forced to upgrade, you just won't get any more patches or support for Windows 7,
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- TWO unwanted browsers that I can't uninstall
Um.... If there isn't browser pre-installed on your machine (i.e. Edge for Windows, Safari for Apple, Chrome for Google devices), there's literally no way for you to get to the internet unless you've built your own browser and have it saved locally.
I mean there are ways... but I was never a fan of telnet browsing.
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The point is the inability to get rid of programs he doesn't want - and it's not like it's hard to copy the installer from another computer.
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Shut off windows features makes IE and edge disappear. And maybe its a "Home" vs. "Pro" but you can add a local account while connected to the internet, it's two steps—which I agree is two more than it should be.
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Just putting my mod had on for a second, I just want to interject here and note that there's a potential communication issue between technical help in getting an OS running to your tastes and kind of opinion in general about the OS. Let's keep those two senses of the discussion in mind. If you just plain don't like Win10, that's cool. If tech solutions just aren't welcome, that's fine too. But if making Win10 work the way you want and like is welcome, then that, also, is cool.
The only other meta-discussion element I'll add is probably the unspoken concern some of the posters have about end-of-support for Win7 which has concluded as of January this year. I don't recall if MS has further support available for security updates for the OS (for a fee but only enterprise licensing? not sure), but out of concern for user security and safety I would probably recommend upgrading to Win10, switching to an alternate OS like Linux, or pulling the Win7 offline. In the end it's your machine, but I thought it would be worth saying out loud the not-quite-explicit concern people are expressing.
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A bit of it depends on how old your computer is.
I used to be able to install linux very easily on PCs. These days, it is harder. The new bios for many machines is intended to be more secure, but it also "assumes" you are going to install windows (UEFI). Getting it to recognize a linux mint thumbdrive and dual boot can be a bit of a pain compared to older machines, were you just had to tell the bios to boot from the thumbdrive to do the initial install, and then use Grub to select the OS during subsequent boots. Ubuntu is probably the easiest distro to dual boot; Windows even lets you boot Ubuntu from within windows through WSL, which can be pretty helpful if you want a useful command line but don't want to reboot or switch machines.
I hate Win10 and its SaaS future, and vastly prefer linux mint. Libreoffice is free and just as good for me as MS Office. Win10 is a weird tablet OS crammed onto a PC. For example, my win10 desktop started running the disks full time, all the time. Between Dropbox and Windows, disk read/write was at 100% capacity whenever I checked. It was annoying and slow. I did 10 or 15 things to try to stop it, like killing superfetch and editing registry files. In the end, what was it? The performance settings had defaulted to "energy saver" as if I'm using an unplugged laptop or some tablet. Why? Just why? Why is it like this? Oh, and the way it installs or saves many, many things in hidden directories in the User folders! What a nightmare, combing through C: to find the install directory for some program to add or edit files, only to realize the directory is hidden in part of your computer that constantly lies to you about what's in it. Oh I loathe it.
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After my appachee open office crapped the bed on its dictionary, for a 7th time in the past 5 years, i decided to try libra office.. EVEN after installing it, rebooting, then trying to open it, not one of my word docs would get opened.. So eventually i went with WPS
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My own situation is that I got Win10 only for the online security, and I didn't use it on my existing PC, but I put together a new PC for win10.
My existing PC I put in another room to be offline, I was not going to ruin a well tuned PC on Win10.
But with the new PC I had to do so much work to tune it, remove bloat and spyware... etc.
I even replaced the picture viewing app, the preinstalled one is 'not good'.
Now I still need to find a working way to edit the right-click new file options.....
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Um.... If there isn't browser pre-installed on your machine (i.e. Edge for Windows, Safari for Apple, Chrome for Google devices), there's literally no way for you to get to the internet unless you've built your own browser and have it saved locally.
I mean there are ways... but I was never a fan of telnet browsing.
Windows 10 has a built-in apps store that allows you to download a variety of web browsers so there is no need to have one built into the OS, let alone two.
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The point is the inability to get rid of programs he doesn't want - and it's not like it's hard to copy the installer from another computer.
Especially since the vast majority of us have a web-connected computer in our pockets...
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Windows 10 has a built-in apps store that allows you to download a variety of web browsers so there is no need to have one built into the OS, let alone two.
I disagree entirely, just like I would disagree that Linux distros should come without browsers because you can always download one from an app repository, or that your smartphone shouldn't come with a web browser because they have an app store you can use.
In 2020, an operating system that doesn't ship with some web browser built in is incomplete. That Windows is shipping it with their more modern browser plus their old browser for legacy app support is fine. It may not be your preferred browser, but nobody is preventing you from installing a different one and setting that as your default.
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It's more the 'getting rid of the browser I don't want is impossible' side of things. I don't know offhand how much of my HD Edge and/or IE take up, but I don't want them or their vulnerabilities on my computer. I can see bundling one, but making it critical to the OS is both an attack vector and annoyingly unremovable.
And yes I do use Chrome entirely, but I've caught Cortana sneaking back on this computer several times and I've given up trying to get rid of it. Let me have only what I want on my computer, it's mine and not Microsoft's, dammit! :D
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It's more the 'getting rid of the browser I don't want is impossible' side of things.
This.
That Windows is shipping it with their more modern browser
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I have no objections to Win10 coming with the MS default browser pre-installed as a matter of convenience, but two browsers, both of which cannot be uninstalled?
...plus their old browser for legacy app support...
Legacy support? When is the last time you saw a website that requires IE and won't work any modern browsers? I more often experince the opposite. the PCs at worked are locked to IE only and we regularly run into "your browser is outdated so some parts of this website may not function correctly" messages.
nobody is preventing you from installing a different one and setting that as your default.
Nobody apart from MS who regularly reset Edge as the default browser after an update.
Ultimately, I don't so much mind MS bundling their apps into windows. It's the inability to remove the ones I don't want and MS's determination to keep switching me back to them. As AND Kamas P81 says,
Let me have only what I want on my computer, it's mine and not Microsoft's, dammit! :D
I know I'm fighting a losing battle here. All the big tech companies are going to keep bundling more & more of their own products together to try & lock users into the company's prefered ecosystem, probably so that they can then switch everything to "recurring revenue" models.
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Legacy support? When is the last time you saw a website that requires IE and won't work any modern browsers? I more often experince the opposite. the PCs at worked are locked to IE only and we regularly run into "your browser is outdated so some parts of this website may not function correctly" messages.
Every. Single. Work day. Know how I can tell you don't work for a hospital?
Seriously, though, it's vastly common on corporate intranet sites, hospital or otherwise.
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Every. Single. Work day. Know how I can tell you don't work for a hospital?
Seriously, though, it's vastly common on corporate intranet sites, hospital or otherwise.
You've got me there. I was thinging about the internet, not private corporate environments. Although my employer's intranet doesn't work reliably on IE anyway so I'm not sure how much worse it could be on Firefox/Chrome/Edge/whatever.
I work in the nuclear industry, we do have our own issues with legacy IT. They're usually about control systems with obsolete proprietory interfaces for equipment located in contaminated areas, so it's much simpler to try and keep very old computers running than to update equipment that basically still works fine.
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Boeing and I think Airbus also need IE to look up their tech docs. But considering I had to help load navigation files on a 3.5" floppy the other week, I guess that's not that surprising.