Androids aka Infantry Drones in BT?

[M4nG4n]

Recently on Facebook, somebody asked, why we don't have a robotic humanoids, known otherwise as androids. Especially 100 years later, in 3150. The tech in BT would surely allow to create these, since we have Mechs, cybernetics and some sort of AI.

I think that Robotic Infantry would be nice to implement...

[Daryk]

In universe, pathological fear of unfettered AI.

Out of universe, that would be "aliens" by another means, and that's not what BT is meant to be about.

[M4nG4n]

In universe, pathological fear of unfettered AI.

Out of universe, that would be "aliens" by another means, and that's not what BT is meant to be about.

I was rather thinking to slave them as SDS, or even autonomous drones like Revenant or Lich if required, not the emerging construct like "The Broken".

[Daryk]

After the fall of the Star League to a subverted SDS, there's all kinds of resistance to even that basic level of automation.

[RifleMech]

Exterminate! Exterminate!

You will be upgraded.

Resistance is futile.

[Daryk]

Exactly!  :D

[Retry]

The Human Race can make a huge hive mind out of multi-megaton warships, build (and destroy) the gigantic O'Neil station for millions of filthy rich folk, terraform and colonize Venus of all places, but stuff a tiny hive mind in a PAL suit?  Oh, now you've gone too far!

So we have tiny vee-based drones (Pathtrack and NapFind), and we also have larger walking designs in Battlemech-scale drones (Revenant).  In-universe, it shouldn't take much to put two-and-two together and come up with a basic robotic BA-scale drone, at least.

[monbvol]

I seem to recall in the first edition of the RPG human sized security drones were mentioned as being a thing but beyond that I can't remember anything being said about them and don't have the book to check.

I have some poorly balanced rules floating around that I need to probably rework from the ground up for how I'd do something like this.

Another reason we probably don't have them from a real world perspective is to avoid the wrath of at one point Lucas but now Disney.

[dgorsman]

One of the problems with Jihad: Final Reckoning is happening here too.  In that book there was a piece on WoB technology and it switched between remotely piloted and robotic units, freely using the term 'drone' for both.  So what are we talking about here?  Remotely piloted battle armor, or terminator-style robotic drones?

[monbvol]

OP seems to be looking more for Terminator and the original RPG from what I remember went that way as well.

[Daryk]

Retry: the "huge hive mind" is what terrified its inventors... why would you think they'd try to miniaturize that?  ???

[Mendrugo]

Recently on Facebook, somebody asked, why we don't have a robotic humanoids, known otherwise as androids. Especially 100 years later, in 3150. The tech in BT would surely allow to create these, since we have Mechs, cybernetics and some sort of AI.

I think that Robotic Infantry would be nice to implement...

Crescent Hawk’s Inception had a training scenario where Jason practiced anti-infantry tactics against outmoded humanoid labor robots mounting infantry weapons.

[Retry]

Retry: the "huge hive mind" is what terrified its inventors... why would you think they'd try to miniaturize that?  ???

Why?  Because it's a tad difficult to provide internal security for hardened planetary-based guns or SDS Warships with a Rattler.

Whether the original inventors would have been opposed to androids doesn't matter, as the SLDF likely wouldn't have been able to produce them (no real BA existed), and the planetary elements of the SDS were basically forts.  The original inventors don't have a vote as they're long since dead.  The next users of the concept who would have been capable of producing infantry-drones are the Wobbies, and they clearly weren't all that terrified of the concept (or anything else really), else they wouldn't have re-invented the SDS, twice.(Caspar II and CARS)

[Daryk]

And what happened to the WoB again?  ::)

[Retry]

And what happened to the WoB again?  ::)

So what?  They had Terra for around a decade.  That's way more than enough time to develop an Android BA model if they wanted to.

[Daryk]

And when Terra fell, it would have been thrown straight into the fire...

[ckosacranoid]

We do have ai....It's called the Cali nebula with the autobots....

[Liam's Ghost]

The Kell hounds scenario pack has an infantry sized tracked security drone that could qualify as robotic infantry (carries twin infantry machine guns). Mechwarrior 1st edition has a five ton security robot that is functionally similar to an autonomous savannah master (two small lasers, very fast)

Both of these can be, if not duplicated, then at least closely copied under current rules. The infantry drone could be a small support vehicle, the Hover drone can be a straight combat vehicle, both equipped with smart robotic control systems. And they're small enough that it wouldn't take any extra mass to mount.

The important limit on them however, is that any ECM system will scramble them good. This is arguably the reason why you wouldn't see them in large numbers on a battlefield. At the point where the technology was plentiful, so was the counter.

(the Star League did develop a shielded version of the control system, but it never got past aerospace units before the league went boom).

We do have ai....It's called the Cali nebula with the autobots....

That's like saying we have wizards and something resembling but legally distinct from superman.

[Retry]

And when Terra fell, it would have been thrown straight into the fire...

Maybe, in which case it goes the way of all the other weird fancy techs from the resident weirdos (Wobbies & Society) that go extinct like Void, LAMs, the superheavy mobile structures and that odd Blakist space missile weapon.

Yet all of those exist(ed) in universe and most of those are statted out.

[Charistoph]

Automated battle armor got a bad rap from historical archives of a terrorist troop who tried the same thing, but it failed to have a significant impact.  Some tried to place blame on the producer, James McCullen, but making it have room for a potential pilot or passenger may have been the real culprit.  The System: Neutralizer - Armed Kloaking Equipment was poorly armored and unable to withstand sustained small arms fire.  The lighter and smaller Battle Android Troopers didn't rely on the heavier armor of the older model, but still had issues surviving against small arms fire sufficiently better than the standard trooper to justify the cost, so the concept was scrapped when decision to launch the Jihad was made.

Yo Joe!

[HABeas2]

We do have ai....It's called the Cali nebula with the autobots....

Those California Nebula AI's are actually described as "fake" AIs, designed to simulate human-like behavior, but ultimately programmed with certain limits. (For instance, the case of the Star Seeker/MechaTankus dynamic, in which both *want* to destroy each other, but cannot actually do so deliberately.)

Also, California Nebula is not really canon. Just an official "for-fun" project we did back in my day.

- Herb

[PuppyLikesLaserPointers]

I am always think that automaton/remote control Battle Armor seems a wonderful addition to the game. It brings some infantries without fear for losing the human life, in the game that biped giant robots are dominate the battlefield. Battle Armor is nothing but expendable asset on mech to mech battle so it makes us to field more Battle Armors without much burden. Why not?

Personally I am also want to see the automaton crews(or parts) on the vehicles. Only the commander, and possibly the driver, needs to be true human being I think. Combat Vehicles in Battletech universe requires too ridiculous amount of crews and I'd just ruled that androids and automated components are replace the crew's seat.

[RifleMech]

Exactly!  :D

 :D

OP seems to be looking more for Terminator and the original RPG from what I remember went that way as well.

"I'll be back."


I think that after the Star League Civil War that no one was interested in recreating Skynet. Turned out that Casper wasn't that friendly after all.

The Kell hounds scenario pack has an infantry sized tracked security drone that could qualify as robotic infantry (carries twin infantry machine guns). Mechwarrior 1st edition has a five ton security robot that is functionally similar to an autonomous savannah master (two small lasers, very fast)

Both of these can be, if not duplicated, then at least closely copied under current rules. The infantry drone could be a small support vehicle, the Hover drone can be a straight combat vehicle, both equipped with smart robotic control systems. And they're small enough that it wouldn't take any extra mass to mount.

I was just thinking about them! Didn't Herb stat them out a while ago?


[/quote]

That's like saying we have wizards and something resembling but legally distinct from superman.

It worked for Marvel.

None of them have a lock on the concept. The trick is to make them different but equal. Although I do suspect some of the reason is to avoid problems. I'm not sure how they could be introduced without some comparison to something else.

Those California Nebula AI's are actually described as "fake" AIs, designed to simulate human-like behavior, but ultimately programmed with certain limits. (For instance, the case of the Star Seeker/MechaTankus dynamic, in which both *want* to destroy each other, but cannot actually do so deliberately.)

Also, California Nebula is not really canon. Just an official "for-fun" project we did back in my day.

- Herb

Wouldn't their being "fake" AIs along with the backstory for the planet and their technological capabilities and inabilities make them different to publish officially?

An official "for-fun" project we need more of!  ;D

I am always think that automaton/remote control Battle Armor seems a wonderful addition to the game. It brings some infantries without fear for losing the human life, in the game that biped giant robots are dominate the battlefield. Battle Armor is nothing but expendable asset on mech to mech battle so it makes us to field more Battle Armors without much burden. Why not?

Personally I am also want to see the automaton crews(or parts) on the vehicles. Only the commander, and possibly the driver, needs to be true human being I think. Combat Vehicles in Battletech universe requires too ridiculous amount of crews and I'd just ruled that androids and automated components are replace the crew's seat.

"By your command."

I think it's technically possible. It's just that they have so much baggage that even regular drones are rare.

Also we do have rules for automated weapons. We just need rules allowing us to use them on vehicles to match their fluff. If we had rules to make the old Kell Hound drones that would be cool too. Then we could make our own and the universe wouldn't care.

[HABeas2]

I think that after the Star League Civil War that no one was interested in recreating Skynet. Turned out that Casper wasn't that friendly after all.

It was less about that and more about the fact that you could turn the entire network against its masters by getting the codes via a simple con job.

I was just thinking about them! Didn't Herb stat them out a while ago?

Not sure if *I* did that, but I believe the Hi-Scout Drone Carrier's NapFind and PathTrack could count as statted robots. I statted a couple fighter drones, one of which I used in the Jardine saga. Sarna seems to show stats for a few robots, though some like the Marik Security Robot are fragmentary specs at best (the Marik robot claims it has 10 *tons* of armor, but something tells me that's not right; I don't have a copy of the SB it showed up in, though.)

Wouldn't their being "fake" AIs along with the backstory for the planet and their technological capabilities and inabilities make them different to publish officially?

Not with enough serial numbers filed off. Transforming robots, sentient or otherwise, aren't copyright protected unto themselves.

An official "for-fun" project we need more of!  ;D

Well, they took MY keys away for that, but hey, they could certainly try...

FYI: If nobody's mentioned this yet, building units under 10 tons in mass with a Smart Robotics Control System (see Interstellar Operations, p. 140) basically lets you make some very small Support Vehicles that might fit your bill for infantry-sized units without any extra mass devoted to robotic control (at unit masses under 10 ton, the SRCS weighs as much as the unit's normal control systems, making it just as easy to build a robotic vehicle as it does a human-operated one). Though there are no formal Mech building rules that can work at that scale, but small tracked, wheeled, and hover units are possible.... And, of course, if you're just doing your own rules, this is entirely academic.

- Herb

[Daryk]

I don't think I'd characterize the Amaris Coup as a "simple" con job...

[Pat Payne]

walking designs in Battlemech-scale drones (Revenant).

Given that even normal conventional WoB mech designs were pretty much considered toxic to everyone else after the Jihad ended (MUL says they all went extinct soon after), methinks there wasn't going to be much enthusiasm to try and perfect the toaster-worshippers' drone Mech technology.

[Maingunnery]

FYI: If nobody's mentioned this yet, building units under 10 tons in mass with a Smart Robotics Control System (see Interstellar Operations, p. 140) basically lets you make some very small Support Vehicles that might fit your bill for infantry-sized units without any extra mass devoted to robotic control (at unit masses under 10 ton, the SRCS weighs as much as the unit's normal control systems, making it just as easy to build a robotic vehicle as it does a human-operated one). Though there are no formal Mech building rules that can work at that scale, but small tracked, wheeled, and hover units are possible.... And, of course, if you're just doing your own rules, this is entirely academic.

Yes, several people (including myself) have created platoons of tiny Support Vehicle Drones (100kg each x 30 pcs). Generally it is assume that the entire swarm/platoon functions as one unit and that ECM fields do 2D6 damage.

[HABeas2]

Well, there you go then!

- Herb

[Wolf72]

I know it's fudging, but hey it is Fan Designs and Rules.

If I wanted Android Troopers, I would just steal from the BA construction rules and fluff accordingly.

* no 1 point for 'trooper' inside ... it's all one unit
* would totally use the advanced rules for weight: each PA(L) (even if up to 400kg) is .25 tons transport weight (so 6 for 1.5 tons)

BATs and Battle Droids (Episode 1+) I would make PA(L)s that have 1 pt of armor and carry one or two infantry scale weapons (blaster rifles from Nebula C!!)

Super Battle Droids, I would paint a red S on them and give them JJ, 2 points, possible a RL-1 or 2 and 2 infantry weapons.

Bigger/Beefier: go up the weight ranges for the rest of the BA.

You could get Cylons (old and new), Terminators (your standard ones, not metal goop guy), IGs, Cybermen, etc.

Some Battletech engineer/programmer could start a whole new era of despair and destruction because even though the 20th/21st centuries gave her/him lots of fiction to work with they didn't bother to use the 3 Laws (mostly because, its battle technology and we want to blow shit up.)

[RifleMech]

It was less about that and more about the fact that you could turn the entire network against its masters by getting the codes via a simple con job.

And you have a very bad day.

Not sure if *I* did that, but I believe the Hi-Scout Drone Carrier's NapFind and PathTrack could count as statted robots. I statted a couple fighter drones, one of which I used in the Jardine saga. Sarna seems to show stats for a few robots, though some like the Marik Security Robot are fragmentary specs at best (the Marik robot claims it has 10 *tons* of armor, but something tells me that's not right; I don't have a copy of the SB it showed up in, though.)

My search foo worked! Yay!  ;D
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=37372.msg864709#msg864709

Not with enough serial numbers filed off. Transforming robots, sentient or otherwise, aren't copyright protected unto themselves.

>:D

Well, they took MY keys away for that, but hey, they could certainly try...

 :'(     :)Hope they do! >:D

FYI: If nobody's mentioned this yet, building units under 10 tons in mass with a Smart Robotics Control System (see Interstellar Operations, p. 140) basically lets you make some very small Support Vehicles that might fit your bill for infantry-sized units without any extra mass devoted to robotic control (at unit masses under 10 ton, the SRCS weighs as much as the unit's normal control systems, making it just as easy to build a robotic vehicle as it does a human-operated one). Though there are no formal Mech building rules that can work at that scale, but small tracked, wheeled, and hover units are possible.... And, of course, if you're just doing your own rules, this is entirely academic.

- Herb

 >:D Sounds fun

I know it's fudging, but hey it is Fan Designs and Rules.

If I wanted Android Troopers, I would just steal from the BA construction rules and fluff accordingly.

* no 1 point for 'trooper' inside ... it's all one unit
* would totally use the advanced rules for weight: each PA(L) (even if up to 400kg) is .25 tons transport weight (so 6 for 1.5 tons)

BATs and Battle Droids (Episode 1+) I would make PA(L)s that have 1 pt of armor and carry one or two infantry scale weapons (blaster rifles from Nebula C!!)

Super Battle Droids, I would paint a red S on them and give them JJ, 2 points, possible a RL-1 or 2 and 2 infantry weapons.

Bigger/Beefier: go up the weight ranges for the rest of the BA.

You could get Cylons (old and new), Terminators (your standard ones, not metal goop guy), IGs, Cybermen, etc.

Some Battletech engineer/programmer could start a whole new era of despair and destruction because even though the 20th/21st centuries gave her/him lots of fiction to work with they didn't bother to use the 3 Laws (mostly because, its battle technology and we want to blow shit up.)

 >:D