Author Topic: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.  (Read 23877 times)

Cannonshop

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Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« on: 13 December 2015, 19:49:35 »
The Dirtbag Militia-you know the one-it's the guys you have to gen up for your players to come in and slaughter for skill points, they're the defenders, what we used to call "Level 1 on a Level 3 field", the popcorn units that are supposed to be designed for a few easy fights while the players are 'levelling' or getting into a campaign, they're the defense when your all-star-Star of Ristars hit a border world.

They're the force you take when the GM is a munchkin or you're playing Sir MONTgomerY HAULwin to teach a lesson on the difference between gear, and tactics.

The Dirtbag Miliitia is the very essence of combined arms-because they have to be

Basics:
Dirtbag Militias don't have C3.
Dirtbag Militias don't have much in teh way of advanced options.
Dirtbag Militias almost never have anything published after the 3026 book.
Dirtbag Militia don't have access to Battlearmor.
Dirtbag Militia don't have access to Arrow IV.
Dirtbags follow a formula of forces.

The Formula:

1'mech lance=1 Company of vees=1 battalion of infantry.

1 'Mech Company=1 Battalion of Vees=1 Regiment of Infantry=1 Dirtbag Militia Regiment.

The Vehicles of a Dirtbag Miliitia can be found in three places:
Tech Readout 3025
Tech Readout 3026
Tech Readout 3039.

There are other possible 'Dirtbag' designs in 3058 and later books, but generally, you can outfit a generic dirtbag militia from those three books.

Dirtbag Militia 'mechs come from only 1 book:
TRO 3025.

reason? 3039 and 2750 have tech that Dirtbags don't have access to.

this is NOT to say that Dirtbags don't have access to new things-they do, but those new things are things that don't require alterations to their dirtbag machines.

Specialty Ammunition: Yes.  Precision, AP, you betcha-if there's enough room in the ammo bins, you can take anything that will fit the firing chamber of a 3025 era unit.  Esp. if you're playing 3055 to 3067 era, inner sphere units.

Oh, and Clanners? are NEVER Dirtbag Militia-even the Solahma have better gear.

in general, for Dirtbags, you don't make up BV difference with skill scores, you make it up in NUMBERS, or ammunition types.  Generally Dirtbags will have P/G scores in the 4/5 range, (if you're being challenging), or 5/6 (for greenies).

The Exception: Dirtbag border-worlders on the Clan front should have good scores (Regular or even veteran) for vehicle crews-but not 'Mechwarriors-this reflects the tendency for good 'mech pilots to be scooped up by well-paying (Dirtbags aren't well paid) mercenary units or prestigious (Dirtbags aren't prestige assignments) House units.

Dirtbag types:

'Mechwarriors-all the flavours you see with House troops are present here-except for artillery types.  Dirtbag 'mechwarriors are the 'also rans', not the best, but not necessarily the worst-just guys who got the short stick on assignment day.

Tank Crew-Dirtbag tankers, VTOL pilots, and other vehicle users will actually tend to be pretty-good: They're actually there to protect their HOME (or somesuch nonsense).  Vees are cheaper to drill with than 'mechs (wear and tear's easier to fix), so these should be pretty good to frelling excellent, in spite of running old, or obselete, gear.  (this does not apply the closer you get to the core-coreworlder miliz are tax-collecting sons of bitches, best trained for scaring the other peasants into keeping heads down.)

Infantry; mixed bag. Generally Dirtbag infantry aren't Anti-'mech trained, so swarming's out.  Dirtbag infantry should follow the formula of 2 rifle foot platoons to 1 mechanized gun platoon (field guns-the light ones, AC/5 platoons are ideal), a really big force (regiment or larger) might have an anti-'mech trained rifle or SRM platoon.

Supporting Arms: if your Dirtbag regiment doesn't have a couple batteries of Thumpers, you need to correct that.  Generally Dirtbag arty is towed arty, with infantry supporting it and VTOLs doing the spotting (again, bigger guns would go to forces with more prestige, or money.)

Good choices for specialty ammo for Dirtbag units:

Autocannon equipped:
Precision Ammunition
AP ammunition
FLAK (if there are ASFs in the match).

LRM equipped:
Thunder LRM (3050 and later)
Swarm (if you have the option from the old books) or Swarm-I.
SMOKE!!! (smoke rounds are good rounds to have.)

SRM Equipped:

Infernoes.  Lots and lots of infernoes.

poor choices for your dirtbags:

Anything Needler.  at all. ever. these are weapons that only belong to units near the core where tax-enforcement is more important than defense due to lots of presige and expensive merc units in the area, which contains very very few real opponents.  Needlers are of no use for a Dirtbag on the front lines, or in places likely to BECOME the front lines.

to reiterate and underline: Dirtbag infantry should NEVER be equipped with needlers, heavy needlers, or incendiary heavy needlers.  if they are, they're not dirtbags, they're scumbags-and Scumbags don't show up without high-end House or Merc units to do the real fighting.


Discriminations: Terms

Dirtbag: a Dirtbag has the best that can be seconded to some peasant, with the idea that they'll slow an invader's advance long enough to actually buy real time for House forces to move in and reileve them (or, in the case of Lyrans, to buy enough time for the perfumed princes in their assault 'mechs to run away). Dirtbag militias will have fairly standardized equipment (matching weapons) of slightly lower tech-level or cost, and rely on 'average damage' and 'ablative defense' (aka attrition).  Dirtbags are combined-arms by default (insufficient funding for more than, say, a company of older 'mechs).

Scumbag: A Scumbag miliitia exists to scare civilians and collect taxes.  Scumbag militia are heavily focused on generating property damage to civilian areas and killing unprotected civilians.  Scumbags use Needlers...a lot, and do not operate without better units (aka real combat units) backing them up.  Scumbag militias run away if they don't have high-end support, because if they don't, they die fast without doing anything to real combat troops.



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Daryk

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #1 on: 13 December 2015, 20:52:42 »
I have to ask... are laser rifles like the Intek or Type XX too high end as secondary weapons (i.e., when the primary weapons are auto-rifles for 80 C-Bills a pop)?  The Intek is no more expensive than a vanilla laser rifle (1,250), and the Type XX is only 500 more.  Two of those per squad lets the auto-rifles reach out and touch things without slowing the unit down.

Also, what about engineers for mining, digging obstacles, and slapping a satchel charge on a bridge or other non-moving, non-shooting target?  I mean, what's a Dirtbag unit without some dirt diggers?

And finally, what about armor?  The "Periphery/Generic" kit seems to be built for Dirtbag units...

mikecj

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #2 on: 13 December 2015, 21:23:18 »
Thanks, this is a useful article.
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Deadborder

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #3 on: 14 December 2015, 07:21:30 »
I'd actually counter some of the limited TRO options. True it's not saying 'blanket this TRO' but rather a few key units that will be useful for your Dirtbag army-building

*The Lineholder from TRO3058 was basically built for Dirtbag militias. The LH2 model is pure intro-tech
*The Watchman from TRO3055 was also designed for militia units. the 4M model has no advanced tech save for it's CASE
*The Merlin from TRO3058 is considered to be a 'bottom of the barrel' unit, built in the Outworlds Alliance (the home of the Dirtbag!). Only one of its variants has any non-intro tech
*The Chameleon from TRO3058 is both a Dirtbag-grade 'Mech and also a common training platform. So you can train your Dirtbags on the same 'Mech they'll pilot
*For the really well-equipped Dirtbag, there's the Longbow and the Striker from TRO3058. Both have pure intro-tech variants that have been around forever
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Nastyogre

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #4 on: 14 December 2015, 12:59:08 »
I've always taken the view that Militia could have nearly any mech and to an extent Vee. Are they likely very common mechs or very common to the faction? Yes, certainly. But the dirtbag militia are guys and gals that mustered out and retired, or go drummed out. In the Btech world they will be small merc units that are basically bought and paid for by a planet to become permanent militia. They might be a bit tougher and better than most homegrown milita, then again, maybe not. They could be soldiers with a past they would like to hide. All of these backgrounds means that the odd unit (especially mechs) might be in a militia unit.

Vees merc units and even crews are common enough to apply the above to them as well.

Other than truly extinct or truly advanced I don't rule anything out of a militia unit. Actually, I kind of like throwing in a higher quality unit or two. A prize to capture and salvage if you can, a big problem to kill too. "There is a Tank company moving in from the Southwest sir, looks like they have some infantry support as well. A single lance of mechs is with them. Contains a Locust, Stinger, Centurion and a... Thunderbolt?"
"What the hell? What are they doing with a T-bolt?"
 "I dunno sir, looks like one of the tank lances are Manticores too..."
"Nuts!"

I do object to the characterization that a militia is cannon fodder. Yes players in a mech company hitting a world should tear up that tank battalion. Unless the whole thing is Scorpions, as long as you see some stuff with some bigger guns, some of those mechs should be going down. Unless you intentionally play your OPFORs as idiots. Even Clanners are going to get a few units popped by 36 Bulldogs, especially if they have some arty and infantry support.

I like nothing more than seeing players that swagger into a "militia mop up" situation only to find themselves in a fight that might not just cause casualties but will defeat them. I've got zero sympathy for a players that don't take thirty-odd tanks seriously. :-) Nothing like having the militia draw the enemy into the city and have them say hello at close range to AC's and 5 stands of infantry at 3 hexes.

Colt Ward

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #5 on: 14 December 2015, 15:53:30 »
I would also say the Chaos March SB might be a good source.  Possible background for the random militia and it has a lot of units that would be for militia- I think that is what the Lineholder started in and I know the Brutus came out in it.

Another thing to consider would be RL units, either RL-PP conversions which we see in Operation Klondike or later RL designed units.

I think post Jihad we might see retrotech mechs rather than all up battlemechs in the militia role which should make things interesting there as well.
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Saint

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #6 on: 14 December 2015, 19:46:57 »
And don't forget Militamechs!

They are a great unit for Dirtbag Militas.
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Hellraiser

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #7 on: 14 December 2015, 23:02:40 »
The Formula:
1'mech lance=1 Company of vees=1 battalion of infantry.
1 'Mech Company=1 Battalion of Vees=1 Regiment of Infantry=1 Dirtbag Militia Regiment.


Infantry; mixed bag. Generally Dirtbag infantry aren't Anti-'mech trained, so swarming's out.  Dirtbag infantry should follow the formula of 2 rifle foot platoons to 1 mechanized gun platoon (field guns-the light ones, AC/5 platoons are ideal), a really big force (regiment or larger) might have an anti-'mech trained rifle or SRM platoon.

Supporting Arms: if your Dirtbag regiment doesn't have a couple batteries of Thumpers, you need to correct that.  Generally Dirtbag arty is towed arty, with infantry supporting it and VTOLs doing the spotting (again, bigger guns would go to forces with more prestige, or money.)

Good choices for specialty ammo for Dirtbag units:

Autocannon equipped:
Precision Ammunition
AP ammunition
FLAK (if there are ASFs in the match).

LRM equipped:
Thunder LRM (3050 and later)
Swarm (if you have the option from the old books) or Swarm-I.
SMOKE!!! (smoke rounds are good rounds to have.)

SRM Equipped:
Infernoes.  Lots and lots of infernoes.

CS,  I'm going to disagree in a couple areas.  Because you actually being TOO NICE here.

1.  That is WAY to many Mechs for Militia.
2.  Field Guns are actually a new concept IIRC, the Assault Guards was just getting them IIRC, & wouldn't be nearly that common.
3.  A Foot Infantry regiment is IIRC supported by a single platoon of Towed Thumpers.
4.  Much specialty ammo is actually very advanced & not at all common at the Militia level.
     Of all that you listed,  I would say Flak, Smoke, Thunder, & Inferno are the only contenders for Militia.





I'd probably set it up as follows.

"Typical Militia Brigade"
1st Regiment
1x Foot-Green-Regiment
1x TowedThumper-Green-Platoon
1x LitTank-Reg-Platoon

2nd Regiment
1x Foot-Regular-Battalion
1x Motorized-Regular-Battalion
1x APC-Green-Battalion
1x TowedThumper-Green-Platoon
1x MedTank-Regular-Platoon

3rd Regiment
1x Motorized-Regular-Battalion
1x LitTank-Green-Battalion
1x MedTank-Regular-Battalion
1x TowedThumper-Regular-Platoon
1x LtMech-Green-Lance

Total = 9 Bat + 2 Co
4 Bat Foot Inf  (3Grn, 1Reg)
2 Bat Motor Inf  (2Reg)
1 Bat APC (Grn)
1 Bat LitTank (Grn) + 1 Plt (Reg)
1 Bat MedTank (Reg) + 1 Plt (Reg)
3 Plt Towed Thump (2Grn, 1Reg)
1 Lt Mech Lance (Grn)
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Colt Ward

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #8 on: 14 December 2015, 23:26:21 »
I think it depends on the timeframe . . . and honestly, even if Field Guns are a new addition to the rules (thought they were a McCarron's or MaxTech thing) just like the mech/vehicle scale dumb rockets (RLs) IMO it makes sense for them to be something that has always been in the setting.

I think the ammo information he is providing would become accurate for AP/Prec say in the 3080s, I want to say we hear about it in the MWDA FWL books
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Cannonshop

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #9 on: 15 December 2015, 03:33:30 »
CS,  I'm going to disagree in a couple areas.  Because you actually being TOO NICE here.

1.  That is WAY to many Mechs for Militia.
2.  Field Guns are actually a new concept IIRC, the Assault Guards was just getting them IIRC, & wouldn't be nearly that common.
3.  A Foot Infantry regiment is IIRC supported by a single platoon of Towed Thumpers.
4.  Much specialty ammo is actually very advanced & not at all common at the Militia level.
     Of all that you listed,  I would say Flak, Smoke, Thunder, & Inferno are the only contenders for Militia.





I'd probably set it up as follows.

"Typical Militia Brigade"
1st Regiment
1x Foot-Green-Regiment
1x TowedThumper-Green-Platoon
1x LitTank-Reg-Platoon

2nd Regiment
1x Foot-Regular-Battalion
1x Motorized-Regular-Battalion
1x APC-Green-Battalion
1x TowedThumper-Green-Platoon
1x MedTank-Regular-Platoon

3rd Regiment
1x Motorized-Regular-Battalion
1x LitTank-Green-Battalion
1x MedTank-Regular-Battalion
1x TowedThumper-Regular-Platoon
1x LtMech-Green-Lance

Total = 9 Bat + 2 Co
4 Bat Foot Inf  (3Grn, 1Reg)
2 Bat Motor Inf  (2Reg)
1 Bat APC (Grn)
1 Bat LitTank (Grn) + 1 Plt (Reg)
1 Bat MedTank (Reg) + 1 Plt (Reg)
3 Plt Towed Thump (2Grn, 1Reg)
1 Lt Mech Lance (Grn)

difference between "Dirtbag" and "Scumbag" militia here, Hellraiser.  Dirtbag militia is supposed to provide your better-equipped players with a challenging fight.

Scumbag militias are there to be stormtrooper mooks for heroic PC's to burn through like popcorn in a march to victory.

Secondly, is a tendency IRL for national guardsmen to get better ammo before they get better guns-when the M-16A2 was adopted, it was adopted with a new ammunition round.  A lot of units got the new rounds before they got the new rifles, esp. thanks to Operation Desert Shield/Storm.

Field guns were part of the canon before they were moved from what used to be "Level 3 rules" (Maxtech) to standard play.  Like rockets (as Colt pointed out), they're a logical thing for low-priority forces in bad areas to have, since they're relatively cheap, (cheaper than a proper vehicle and assloads cheaper than a proper 'mech), provide good firepower on defense, and can be produced more rapidly than 'mechs, tanks, etc. etc.

I'll note that the exceptional corrections in Deadborder's post would apply-when I wrote this, it was based on the assumption of players without full access to all of the TRO's (thus focusing on the most common ones you might find at half-price books or another used bookseller).

 "Field guns" could be difficult to have rules for if you don't have the right books NOW, but SRM infantry isn't, so that can be quite easily substituted (and is potentially far, far nastier.)

Teh basics of Dirtbagging, is to take the lowest tech you have available that you can still be effective with if you're creative-in the old days, it would be designing a "Rules level one" unit that can actually make a Clan player sweat if used correctly-the variant ammo choices I gave were the "Top" of the Dirtbag tree-basicaly 3060 to 3080's era Dirtbags, likely to face Battlesuits, omnimechs, Blakist techweenies and Clanner munchkins.

Hellraiser: scaling back for eras, your layout works in 3025, and it's a good one.  Scaling forward, probably see fewer 'mech types total and might see no 'mechs at all, but higher tech tanks or limited suit use (Dark Age).

the key point of Dirtbag militias, is the idea that the mooks might actually BE DANGEROUS, or (if done from the player's end) being peasant/middleclass/yeoman heroes up against corrupt nobles or slathering invading elites.

all in all though, "Dirtbag Militias" are intended to be something; 

Effective.

As a GM, you trot out the Dirtbag militias when your players get munchkin-arrogant and need a lesson, or when your players are craving a 'decent fight' but aren't up to facing a Manei-Domini Level III in Experimental tech machines, or aren't up to the level where tehy can square off with Clan Regulars in 3050.

as a Player, running a unit that's based on Dirtbag principles is about using cleverness and old gear to beat what better units and men than you have failed to defeat, or it's about heroically holding a line against technically superior foes.  This is WHY it gets the slack. 

again, adjustments by era or house or situation are reasonable.  A FWL dirtbag unit isn't necessarily going to look like a FedSuns Dirtbag unit, neither of them will look like what a Cappellan, Taurian, Canopian, Kurita, or Lyran Dirtbag unit looks like-but there are common elements to all of those that make them 'Dirtbag' instead of 'Scumbag' militias.

the most telling element, of course, is that the most advanced thing they're likely to be running, is the ammo in the hoppers.  everything else is a combination of old, common, and cheap (relatively cheap).

but a few of the basics DO apply:

Dirtbags don't deploy large formations of 'mechs-a proper Dirtbag formation has a few, if they're well-treated, older 'mechs or lower-tech 'mechs, the main thrust of their combat power is conventional arms used intelligently, and 'mechs are basically in a role similar to horsed officers in world war one-they're there, but few in number and only a small proportion of the forces arrayed.

Dirtbags use cheap force-multipliers (such as low-end artillery) because they don't have large numbers of 'mechs, aren't likely to be leaving their world, and towed arty is decidedly less effective for the kind of offense that most of the major powers and Merc units in BT base their grand strategies on...that said, they aren't likely to have BIG guns (Sniper, Long Tom) because those DO have a use in offensive operations or defense of major cities.

Dirtbag militias need to be coherently laid out.  A random-stuff miliz isn't Dirtbag (or scumbag), they're just ineffective.  lots of commons that share design history or parts, have similar weapons systems, etc. etc.-the kind of thing you can build strategy or tactics around, fits the Dirtbag pattern-remember, these are supposed to be effective, but not overpowering to the level of a House Regulars outfit from the same era.  For a GM that means giving the players a chance to 'figure out' their achilles heel or weakness, or to figure out how to negate their one or two advantages, but in a way that's relatively fair and open. (otherwise the mission becomes an interminable grind for the players.)

my own Dirtbag configurations were the basis of a lot of the stories I've done in the fan-fiction.  they're a little bit difficult to use, and there's a lot of book-keeping to do with them, but simplicities I found included being able to copy off several identical sheets and using number designations to help keep track of things like shots fired (Important with ammo based forces), damage tracking, and 'morale checks' set into the scenario rules (Usually forced withdrawal.)

I've tried random-rolled forces and found them to be even MORE of a bookkeeping nightmare-often extending turns into hours that should have been resolved in minutes or even seconds. *(this got, if anything, WORSE with TW's update to how vees take damage.)

Now, I do confess to using some house rules;because they work OH so much better when I'm GM'ing a group of players...

1. Initiative: it's called "Front Load the Initiative for asymmetrical numbers of units!"  win or lose, the larger force moves more units first, and fewer units LAST.  this is almost polar opposite of how it works in the book, and it makes turns go much faster, and negates some of the raw advantages of having more units on the board, thus side-stepping the problem that they were trying to solve in BV2.0 with FSM.
2. When Dirtbags are on the menu, GM or Player, forced withdrawal is a must-otherwise the game bogs down into a month of sundays to resolve one, minor, battle.  Depending on where the Dirtbags are, and who they're facing, the base rate is 50% of combat effectives out of action, and the Dirtbags HAVE TO withdraw/concede. 

Depending on Era/location:
3rd Succession War:

Davion: 50%
Kurita: 65%
Steiner: 25% (*player controlled 50%)
Marik: 50%
Liao: 75% (Hopeless Battle Syndrome, PC controlled 80%)

4th Succession War:

Cappy: 25% (Player controlled 50%)-reflects lack of serious resistance in the backstory and fiction.
Davion: 50% (House Davion was a baseline for so long for the game, plus they didn't have to defend much)
Steiner: 25% (Social General syndrome)
FWL: 50% (Player controlled 55%)
Kurita: 60% (Player controlled 75%-reflects how the Kuritans actually fought in the fiction and background)

3039:

Davion: 50% (baseline, Pc controlled 75%)
Steiner: 50% (PC controlled 50%)
Kurita: 60% (PC 80%)
Cappie: 80% (Romano), 60% (that other Liao that married the spy).
FWL: 50%

3050's (Clan invasion era)

Rassalhague: 65% to 80% losses in most situations.
House Kurita : 45% to 80%
Steiner-Davion: 50% to 75%

3060's (Steiner-Davion civil war, Xin Sheng! era)

Cappellan: 70% flat rate (Player controlled 75%)
Steiner: 35% to 75% depending on location.
Davion: 25% to 65% (the Davion side was, for most of it, on the offensive. where they were defending, against Xin Sheng! they tended to lose in the fiction-and not boldly or heroically.)
FWL: 25% (player controlled 50%)

3070's (Jihaaad):
Everyone has a flat rate of 50%, adjust up or down depending on your interpretation of national pride. (Player controlled 75%)

3080s
Everyone has a flat 25% (player controlled gets 50%)

32nd century (Darkage)

haven't messed with this much, haven't put much thought into it.  good basic loss rate to force withdrawal is 25% of combat power (that is, 'mechs and tanks) or 50% of conventional infantry forces.

Yes, I left out the Taurians, Canopians, etc. etc. in the Periphery-mostly because those 'houses' main fighting forces mostly conform to "Dirtbag Militia" standards already, Pirates don't have 'em and Clanners don't need them.
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doulos05

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #10 on: 15 December 2015, 05:44:51 »
I'm a big fan of the Vedette for this type of force. They're cheap, easy to field, and pack a punch in numbers.
I mean, it's not like once you having something in low Earth orbit you can stick a gassy astronaut on the outside after Chili Night and fart it anywhere in the solar system.

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #11 on: 15 December 2015, 05:57:46 »
The Formula:
1'mech lance=1 Company of vees=1 battalion of infantry.
1 'Mech Company=1 Battalion of Vees=1 Regiment of Infantry=1 Dirtbag Militia Regiment.
One slight change I'd make is to push it to a single square "Dirtbag BN" for the former: you have a 'command lance' of 'Mechs (ARC-2R or local variant, just because they're frigging everywhere and fit the bill) and four combat companies - one of AFVs and three of infantry, and each of those infantry companies is also a square format to allow APC/IFV support.  Battletech is weird with its platoons and vehicles, what with the SchoolBus designs, but having dedicated transports justifies the existence of various APC types in the books.  It'd give you decent strategic mobility too if you happen to airmobile a company or two, perhaps.  It gives you a "penny packet" of a battalion sized force, most of which is meatsacks, and lets you build larger units from there.

1x Mech Lance (4 'Mechs)
1x AFV Company (12-16 AFVs)
3x Infantry Company (3 platoons, 4 APC/IFVs)

I'd tack on a Dirtbag Support Company perhaps, for the BN strength - this would be things like a MASH/medical lance, some heavy transport/recovery/engineer assets, and a lance of artillery support of some kind.  It isn't a full-up logistics or combat support unit, but something to represent having medics and engineers (or even combat engineers) as well as your small artillery supply.

Dirtbag Regiments would scale up, with 3-4 Dirtbag Battalions - each without their DSC, though.  That all gets rolled into Regimental assets.  I could see an attached 'Mech company in addition to the Dirtbag battalions; they're supposed to be more scattered and independent while the 12 pristine shiny golden 'Mechs that Regiment has are above and beyond the touch of the mere Battalion.  They get held in reserve for the Big Fight rather than backing up the Dirtbags in the field; that's what the extra vehicles are for.

So, Dniepr's Dirtbags, 1st Battalion/34th Tamar Militia.  Two ARC-2S, an old RFL-3N, and oh...maybe a captured and rebuilt Panther for a command lance.  A lance of Manticore tanks, a lance of Bulldogs, and because I'm feeling particularly evil a lance of LRM carriers make up the vehicle unit.  Maybe a fourth lance of something small and fast for scouts, VTOLs...how about Warriors? (Come out and plaaa-aaa-aaay!)  That leaves you with three more companies of infantry, which is very much best played with squad rules or else you'll be eating your brains trying to make it all fit.

For the infantry...each company is four "lances" one of which is APCs, giving 12 squads of infantry.  With three companies to fit out, I can play around a bit with compositions.
Company A (light infantry) : four Wheeled APCs, four squads of foot infantry, six squads of jump infantry (two platoons)
Company B (heavy infantry): four Maxim IFVs, eight squads of foot infantry, one combined platoon of motorized infantry with field guns (AC5s?)
Company C (scouts): Four Karnov VTOLs, eight squads of foot infantry, four squads of combat engineers(?)

I grant it is going to be relatively vehicle heavy, but the only real combat participant is that Maxim lance - the Karnovs and WAPCs are just there to haul dudes around and probably won't even be on the field all that much.  Could even sub in some lighter helicopters, maybe two Karnovs for transports and two observation helos to fill out the company.  Either way, it's still getting the majority of its firepower from its infantry.

So you'd have three of the above battalions, 72 squads of foot infantry, 12 squads of motorized field-gun infantry, and 18 squads of jump infantry.  A dozen Maxims, a dozen Wheeled APCs, six Karnovs, and six Ferrets for support, with your armor unit consisting of a lance of Manticores and Bulldogs, with four LRM carriers...and four 'Mechs, with four Thumper carriers tacked on.  That's a lot of units, sure, but it is a fairly heavily reinforced battalion with a lot of transport assets counted into that mix.  I think it'd still make a damn good fight though.
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Cannonshop

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #12 on: 15 December 2015, 06:57:17 »
I have to ask... are laser rifles like the Intek or Type XX too high end as secondary weapons (i.e., when the primary weapons are auto-rifles for 80 C-Bills a pop)?  The Intek is no more expensive than a vanilla laser rifle (1,250), and the Type XX is only 500 more.  Two of those per squad lets the auto-rifles reach out and touch things without slowing the unit down.

Also, what about engineers for mining, digging obstacles, and slapping a satchel charge on a bridge or other non-moving, non-shooting target?  I mean, what's a Dirtbag unit without some dirt diggers?

And finally, what about armor?  The "Periphery/Generic" kit seems to be built for Dirtbag units...

No, those laser rifles aren't too cool for a Dirtbag unit.  The fundamental idea behind the concept, is 'cheap but good'. 

In terms of "Militia Prestige" (not official prestige or MRBC rating) it would run something like this:

Dirtbag Militia-'nasty boys', scrappers that by their equipment list and official records would be under-estimated by everybody (friend and foe alike), their strengths would be notable for being 'unorthodox' where the orthodoxy says Tech is what wins battles.

Standard Militia- Generally as-advertised, often Dirtbag units are mistaken for these,usually to the discomfort of an invader/raider or attacker.

Scumbag Militia-the lowest of the low, the foulest of the foul, these are the douches that exist to keep the Proles in line, they use needlers and heavy needlers and they never see a minute of real combat against enemies that can shoot back and actually hurt them, they're the Miliz that surrenders, that runs away, that collaborates with invading forces, and they usually get more funding than Standard or Dirtbag units.  THESE are the Militias that prefer to do their 'fighting' in residential areas, set up machinegun positions in hospitals or missile positions in schoolyards.

keeping that in mind, your Intek example is a great example of one way to build a Dirtbag platoon that's a tiny bit of a shock to an opponent (or players). 

The key bit of philosophy is that Dirtbag units are the 'sleeper customs' of the battletech board-they don't LOOK that impressive at first look, but used correctly, they can punch above their theoretical weight while still being cheaper than most House Regulars units from the same era, and they require both a careful hand in how you use them and a quick mind in how you might fight 'em.
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Kidd

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #13 on: 15 December 2015, 07:04:28 »
Whatever happened to that Podunk Militia fan article? That was a pretty interesting primer.

Specialty ammo seemed to be cutting-edge in the FC Civil War, then made more standardised in the Jihad to quickly rebuild shattered units forced to reform with older equipment. I think the average planetary militia would not have access to them, until it was known they would be going into combat or the local threat level raised. Then efforts would be made to quickly acquire some. That also fits in with the RL example given. If made available early eg thanks to some far-sighted supply officer, maybe only limited stocks would be on hand.

Its not a great stretch of imagination to see field guns equipping infantry formations much as they did in WW2. They should be limited to standard ACs though.

Scumbag militia? Ahh... "regime protection unit" ;) may be more equipped to handle their own populace with needlers, flamers, tear gas SRMs and machine guns, but can also prove a nuisance against unwary invaders. Should have Fanatic level loyalty IMHO and be willing to use Booby Trapped units.

Daryk

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #14 on: 15 December 2015, 19:28:18 »
No, those laser rifles aren't too cool for a Dirtbag unit.  The fundamental idea behind the concept, is 'cheap but good'. 
*snip*
Thanks for the thorough response!  This is a well thought out concept.

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #15 on: 15 December 2015, 21:33:34 »
difference between "Dirtbag" and "Scumbag" militia here, Hellraiser.  Dirtbag militia is supposed to provide your better-equipped players with a challenging fight.
Ah ha.  Okay, I gotcha.
In interpretation was something different for "Dirtbag" then.


In that case, I'd probably up the anti a bit.


"DirtBag Planetary Militia Brigade 2.0"

1st Regiment
1st Bat = Foot-Green-Rifle
2nd Bat = Foot-Regular-Intek
3rd Bat = Motorized-Regular-Heavy Laser
HHC = 1x TowedThumper-Green-Platoon + 1x MedTank-Vet-Platoon + 1 Vtol-Reg-Platoon

2nd Regiment
1st Bat = Foot-Regular-Intek-FC/Armor
2nd Bat = Motorized-Regular-Heavy Laser-FC/Armor
3rd Bat = IFV-Green-Battalion
HHC = 1x TowedThumper-Reg-Platoon + 1x MedTank-Vet-Platoon + 1 Vtol-Reg-Platoon

3rd Regiment
1x LitTank-Green-Battalion
1x MedTank-Reg-Battalion
1x HevTank-Vet-Battalion
HHC = 1x TowedThumper-Reg-Platoon + 1x HevTank-Vet-Platoon + 1 Vtol-Vet Platoon

Brigade Command
1 MedMech-Reg-Company
1 ConvFighter-Reg-Squadron


« Last Edit: 15 December 2015, 21:37:58 by Hellraiser »
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Cannonshop

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #16 on: 16 December 2015, 02:34:35 »
Ah ha.  Okay, I gotcha.
In interpretation was something different for "Dirtbag" then.


In that case, I'd probably up the anti a bit.


"DirtBag Planetary Militia Brigade 2.0"

1st Regiment
1st Bat = Foot-Green-Rifle
2nd Bat = Foot-Regular-Intek
3rd Bat = Motorized-Regular-Heavy Laser
HHC = 1x TowedThumper-Green-Platoon + 1x MedTank-Vet-Platoon + 1 Vtol-Reg-Platoon

2nd Regiment
1st Bat = Foot-Regular-Intek-FC/Armor
2nd Bat = Motorized-Regular-Heavy Laser-FC/Armor
3rd Bat = IFV-Green-Battalion
HHC = 1x TowedThumper-Reg-Platoon + 1x MedTank-Vet-Platoon + 1 Vtol-Reg-Platoon

3rd Regiment
1x LitTank-Green-Battalion
1x MedTank-Reg-Battalion
1x HevTank-Vet-Battalion
HHC = 1x TowedThumper-Reg-Platoon + 1x HevTank-Vet-Platoon + 1 Vtol-Vet Platoon

Brigade Command
1 MedMech-Reg-Company
1 ConvFighter-Reg-Squadron

closer to the basic idea.  I chose the term "Dirtbag" because the profanity filter doesn't permit the usual post-game response to be used instead.  (*once upon a blue moon ago, I actually had someone upend the table after a match and storm out in a huff-he was playing some kind of no-honor clanners, and I put a dirtbag force on the map and ate him, and his min/maxed customs...ah, good times...)

Over on the "non Canon Units" forum, I've got a standing invitation for people to show THEIR interpretations of the basic principles for a Dirtbag Militia unit.

"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Hellraiser

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #17 on: 16 December 2015, 22:01:55 »
Over on the "non Canon Units" forum, I've got a standing invitation for people to show THEIR interpretations of  the basic principles for a Dirtbag Militia unit.
I'll have to post my homebrew militia there.
If giving the PC's a run for their money is a "Dirtbagger's Job" then I think the stuff I designed for a side project will fit the bill.
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Lorcan Nagle

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #18 on: 23 December 2015, 18:04:48 »
So I have a unit I bring to the table once or twice a year which I call my shitbox militia, which works along similar lines.  There's two lances of Mechs: A Warhammer, Catapult, Centurion and Hunchback, and then a Phoenix Hawk, Wasp, Locust and Falcon.  They're backed up by a tank company with 2 each of Harassers, Vedettes, Packrats, Skulkers, Hunters and Strikers.  Air support is a pair of Guardians, and then there's 5 platoons of foot rifle infantry, and 2 each of machine gun and SRM foot infantry as well.

They had their Alpha Strike debut today and did quite well against a full company of modern-era Liao mechs.
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StoneRhino

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #19 on: 04 January 2016, 09:46:59 »
I ran what would appear to qualify as a dirtbag militia unit this past Saturday. Everything was 4/5. I would suggest that the Atlas was probably a bit much to fit into "dirtbag", but I also had a Catapult, Trenchbucket-K, SRM carrier, and a Zhukov(SSW doesn't have the standard ac10 variant for some reason). I had a light lance of 2 old Spiders, a Mercury, and Commando, with a ac10 wielding Hunchback roaming about the map on it's own. 3 platoons of motorized LRM infantry provided spotting services.

It went against a force a friend made that had a fair amount of 3050+tech. The funny thing was that my friend did not seem to understand that they had the advantage due to tech and advanced ammo while I used generic stuff. The total units per side was their 9 to my 13. I lost every roll for initiative, but my friend mentioned several times how it didn't matter if they won initiative they were always being countered. I can only imagine if I had gone further dirtbag what my friend would have said about being countered regardless of winning initiative every turn of the game. I would love to play with far more infantry units on my side since I don't buy into the idea that there should be more mechs then dirt cheap platoons roaming the field. >:D

glitterboy2098

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #20 on: 04 January 2016, 13:38:05 »
this is more what i envision for a 'dirtball militia' (since "dirtbag' carries rather criminal connotations, in my experiance.)
i dubbed it the Iron tide, and it was part of an exercise in building a force under 30 million Cbills.

Quote
6 Scorpion Light Tank (LRM)
18 Scorpion Light Tank
4 Pegasus Scout Tanks
8 Savannah Master

2 Mechanized Wheeled Platoon (SRM)
4 Mechanized Wheeled Platoon (Rifle)

4 Warrior Attack helicopter H-7
4 Ferret Light Scout VTOL

2 Mechbuster
4 Guardian Fighter

total cost: 29,921,808 cbills

and out of curiosity, before skill modifiers the BV is only 15,532

that's a reinforced combined arms mechanized battalion.
2 Companies of Scorpions, with 3 regular and 1 LRM variant in each lance. (integral fire support.. Booyah)
1 Scout company of 4 Pegasus and 8 Savannah Master
2 Companies of Mechanized Wheeled Infantry.. 2 platoons of rifle and a platoon of SRM each.
1 VTOL support demi-company with a Lance of Warrior H-7's and a lance of Ferrets for recon.
and an air support squadron with a lance of Mechbusters and 2 lances of Guardians.

7 companies worth of troops total.


for the cost of a mech company you can field an under-strength combined arms regiment.

or if you really want a funny comparison, by cbill cost you could build 3 of these for the cost of one Savage Wolf..
« Last Edit: 05 January 2016, 22:53:43 by glitterboy2098 »

nocarename

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #21 on: 06 January 2016, 23:28:31 »
Do you have an alternate for the Savannah Masters in this build?

They are the only fusion powered items in the build after all and it'd be a shame to have something worth raiding for in the militia.

glitterboy2098

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #22 on: 07 January 2016, 02:05:13 »
you could probably replace them with 10 ton SRM Hover APC's (which should have similar BV, though they are slower), which use an ICE. but i don't think S-masters would really be worth raiding for  honestly. its not like they are rare.

nocarename

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #23 on: 07 January 2016, 08:44:45 »
Thanks!
I may have phrased that poorly, but thanks.

croaker

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #24 on: 07 January 2016, 14:26:20 »
Hmm, I'm working out some things about my own version of a Dirtbag Miliz.

So far I've got a three-regiment structure. I set some constraints going in: No more than a single lance of 'mechs, no tech unavailable in 3025 except specialty AC ammo, a minimum of fusion-powered vehicles, and as much logistical 'tail' represented directly as I possibly could.
Regimental organization would be a command company, a support company, and three battalions, each of a command lance and four companies of four lances each. Two of the four battalions would be front-line combatants, one support such as artillery and ADA, and one transport and logistics.

First Regiment was designed to be a 'reaction' unit, a flexible force that can attack or defend as needed and harry up to a company of 'mechs or two with relatively good odds of success.

The command company has a CRD-3R Crusader and SHD-2H Shadow Hawk backed by a pair of Manticores, a lance of Bulldogs, and a lance of Goblin IFVs packing a platoon of laser-rifle infantry and a heavy support laser team between them.

First Battalion command lance got the other two 'mechs (a -1D Phoenix Hawk and a -3R Stinger), backed by a pair of Hunters.
Able Company was a fast cavalry unit with a mix of Manticores, Bulldogs, Hunters, Condors, and J. Edgars.
Baker Company was a stronghold unit with Zhukovs, Sturmfeurs, Partisans, and infantry - two platoons mounted in a tracked APC and one in Goblins.
Charlie Company gets support and protection for it - a lance of Bulldogs, a pair each of Zhukovs and Partisans, and two lances each of 3x Thumper and 1x Tracked APC + 2 Foot platoons.
Delta Company is the support/transport/logistics bunch, with a lance of Warrior H-7 & -7A's, one of Karnov URs, one of J-27's, and a mixed bag of Hi-Scouts, a bridgelayer, and an engineering vehicle. Except for the choppers and scouts most of Delta should never be seen directly on the battlefield.

Second and third battalions are more infantry-heavy, with a command lance each of Manticores and Bulldogs. Able and Baker company each have more Bulldogs and Hunters, plus two Goblin-mounted infantry platoons. Charlie and Delta are pretty much identical to First Bn's C and D.

The Regimental Support Company is another mixed bag, with a mobile base (Weyland type) guarded by a platoon of Goblin-mount infantry, another lance of Thumpers, and some heavy logistical elements - a quartet each of King Karnovs and Hector Road Trains, the latter each hauling Cargo and Passenger trailers. Both trailer types have been refitted to add a small MASH facility.

Second and third regiments follow a similar format, with a command company mostly of heavy armor, three square battalions of mixed medium and heavy armor and APCs hauling infantry (this time Heavy Tracked APCs hauling a mix of laser rifle and field gun platoons, altho one company in each battalion has Maxims instead of tracks), and again a nearly identical set of support in the Charlie and Delta companies of each battalion and the regiment support company.

glitterboy2098

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #25 on: 07 January 2016, 18:00:20 »
Thanks!
I may have phrased that poorly, but thanks.

not an issue.
i just don;t see S-masters as being a very valuable thing post 3rd succession war..

their engines don't fit anything else, so they aren't worth stealing for those. their combat power is limited, so i can't see many frontline units arranging to hijack them from a militia.

and the same tends to apply to enemy forces.. they aren't worth much in salvage, and aren't really worth enough intact to warrant a raid to steal.

the Hover APC's make a decent replacement though, since with the SRM2's they have similar firepower, they are not much slower, and a little bit tougher. and hover APC's are fairly common too.

Kovax

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #26 on: 08 January 2016, 09:55:57 »
These descriptions of "dirtbag militia" sound depressingly similar to the struggling merc units that I often play.  Those include a small number of mostly light and often obsolete 'Mechs, with maybe one or two decent ones in the whole understrength 'Mech company (or there may not even be a full 'Mech Lance), hopefully backed up by one lance of relatively effective tracked armor (such as a pair of Manticores and a pair of Scorpions), a lance of assorted hovers (like a Saracen, Scimitar, and two J. Edgars(ICE)), and up a company of "other cheap stuff" (Galleons, Strikers, maybe a Hetzer), including APCs, transports, engineering assets, and some logistical elements thrown in, all topped off with a company of infantry.  If the budget allows, there may be an artillery piece or a pair of bottom-end aerospace fighters.

For infantry, I may use a squad (not a full platoon) of Laser or SRM grunts for extra reach, and a mortar platoon and/or towed gun (such as an AC/5 or AC/2) for heavy support, but most of that company will consist, at least initially, of basic rifle foot-sloggers, half of whom may be lucky enough to hitch a ride in an APC.

Other than the infantry (because the old infantry prices were insanely high), I've had entire starting company-strength or larger forces come in under 10M C-Bills in a couple of campaigns.  Obviously, there's not a lot of fusion power to go around, and not a lot of heavy units of any sort, but it can still pack a reasonable punch and can seriously harass a heavier force to check its otherwise uncontested advance.  It's just not up to the task of head-on one-on-one slug-fests against heavier forces.

Playing a large full-strength unit with all of the "best toys" and elite crews really doesn't feel challenging to me.  The trick, in my opinion, is to do the best you can with whatever you have to work with, and to protect the one or two "good" units you do have, rather than simply throw them into the meat grinder and hope for good die rolls.  You often can't afford to use even the cheaper units a pure "cannon fodder" without them making some impact on the battle before they expire, because if you could, you wouldn't be fielding stuff like that in the first place.  If that qualifies as "dirtbag", then I'm apparently qualified as a "dirtbag commander".

croaker

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #27 on: 08 January 2016, 10:44:37 »
These descriptions of "dirtbag militia" sound depressingly similar to the struggling merc units that I often play.
<snip>
If that qualifies as "dirtbag", then I'm apparently qualified as a "dirtbag commander".

Works for me!

MOrab46019

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #28 on: 20 January 2016, 01:08:14 »
Add+1

MOrab46019

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #29 on: 20 January 2016, 01:26:34 »
Just to add more food to this. The Historical: Operation Klondike has rules in using all type of vehicles. Would these be used?

Cannonshop

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #30 on: 20 January 2016, 03:01:27 »
Just to add more food to this. The Historical: Operation Klondike has rules in using all type of vehicles. Would these be used?

Think of it more as a "Philosophy of build", depending on era, the gearing does change.  The basic concept is a force that will give players a decent fight, maybe even win, but with inferior gear-the kind of force that, as a player, if you're using it, you HAVE to be thinking one or two steps ahead of your opponent-but if you do it, you can beat him.
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MOrab46019

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #31 on: 20 January 2016, 13:03:51 »
Was reading the Dump Tuck and Flat bed truck. They would be great to get thrown in.

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #32 on: 21 January 2016, 09:16:15 »
Was reading the Dump Tuck and Flat bed truck. They would be great to get thrown in.
My current MekHQ campaign includes two Flatbed Trucks: one with increased armor (strictly transport) and the other with an SRM-2 rack plus some cargo space.  I don't run them on typical missions, but if my base is attacked, they're part of the defense.

WarGod

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #33 on: 21 January 2016, 11:57:18 »
most of my dirtbag militia sports LAWS, rifles, and the ocassional motorized platoon with AC5 field guns.   Through in vendettes, and scorpions.   I also used a force in the RPG that had Axels (ICE versions of the rommel, and patton tanks) which drove my players up the wall.
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jackson123

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #34 on: 22 January 2016, 16:34:36 »
A poor world would do good to have foot inf with rifles.

Don Lunardi

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #35 on: 24 January 2016, 07:07:18 »
most of my dirtbag militia sports LAWS, rifles, and the ocassional motorized platoon with AC5 field guns.   Through in vendettes, and scorpions.   I also used a force in the RPG that had Axels (ICE versions of the rommel, and patton tanks) which drove my players up the wall.

Definitely support the use of smaller caliber standard ACs as field guns.  Artillery, after all, has been an integral part of Infantry support since Ancient times, so why should the 31st Century be any different?  This shouldn't past any even most Periphery worlds to produce and support, and be a powerful force multiplier if used correctly.
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kaliban

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #36 on: 18 June 2019, 22:33:42 »
Motorized Infantry with AC/20 Field Guns is also useful in ambushes, specially if you hide units in the map (wood hexes or buildings). For other uses, AC/5s is the best option.

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #37 on: 19 June 2019, 00:08:51 »
I see your -20 and -5's and raise you a -10.

AC/10 with 10 rounds sound more like an onslaught, verse a 20 that an miss. Whoops, I missed and ruined my shot... meaning you should 'EEk! Kills it! Kills it, NOW!' vs. 'Oh look, we got a sniping AC/5 downrange, lets close in to make its life miserable.'

Say that to my annoying AC/10... and watch as I make you pay for the ground you just crossed.

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Mohammed As`Zaman Bey

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #38 on: 19 June 2019, 04:45:47 »
most of my dirtbag militia sports LAWS, rifles, and the ocassional motorized platoon with AC5 field guns.   Through in vendettes, and scorpions.   I also used a force in the RPG that had Axels (ICE versions of the rommel, and patton tanks) which drove my players up the wall.
  I was going to say, plenty of VLAWs and reloads!

Colt Ward

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #39 on: 19 June 2019, 10:47:54 »
The two new APCs from House Arano offer some new options for militia-

4/6, 7t infantry bay, 2 MG & LRM15 or 2 ML w/ good armor
5/8, 4t infantry bay, 2 MG & SRMs or 2 ML w/ good armor
Colt Ward
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snewsom2997

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #40 on: 19 June 2019, 12:52:16 »
During the Jihad, I would think a few Primitive/Retro Tech Battlemechs might be included.

Terrace

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #41 on: 21 June 2019, 14:25:56 »
Once Light ACs become common, what's the opinion on giving them to Dirtbag Militia as Field Guns?

Colt Ward

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #42 on: 21 June 2019, 14:42:43 »
You know Ultras do not jam for field guns . . .
Colt Ward
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Daryk

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #43 on: 21 June 2019, 14:46:34 »
Yeah, but those require Taurian-size squads... oh, wait...  :D

Sir Chaos

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #44 on: 21 June 2019, 16:16:02 »
Once Light ACs become common, what's the opinion on giving them to Dirtbag Militia as Field Guns?

That´s... 5 LAC/5 per platoon? 6 if you go with a 30 man platoon?

Please, tell me more.
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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #45 on: 21 June 2019, 16:32:51 »
good old AC/5s are probably easier to get as field guns, however the LAC/5 allows for a single 10-men motorized squad to operate one gun with 4 spare men to cover casualties.

I tried two-squad, 16 men, 1 AC/5 rifle motorized units with good results in open terrain at tabletop. The rifle range combines well with the minimum-range penalties of the AC/5. It is only 12ton and 101 BVs.

For ambushes, using hidden units rules, a 28-men motorized platoon with one AC/20 seems a good option even having only 5 shots but I need to test.



 


Daryk

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #46 on: 21 June 2019, 16:36:44 »
Couldn't you fit two AC/20s in a 28-trooper platoon?

Terrace

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #47 on: 21 June 2019, 18:29:32 »
That´s... 5 LAC/5 per platoon? 6 if you go with a 30 man platoon?

Please, tell me more.

That's 25 damage per round in discrete 5-point chunks. It gives you most of a RAC/5's damage potential in a package that's much simpler, mechanically speaking. The RAC/5 might be fancier (and you can field 2 of them in a platoon capable of hauling around 5 LAC/5s), but they just don't have that Dirtbag Militia feel to them, you know?
« Last Edit: 21 June 2019, 18:51:54 by Terrace »

Wolf72

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #48 on: 21 June 2019, 19:31:32 »
don't forget about Heavy Rifles. They can still throw a 6 point round at AC-5 range.  Sure ammo is 4 (?) shots/ton.  For dirtbag militia, I think they'd fit the bill.

Medium Rifles are worse, but anything in numbers will work.  ... brute force is brute force, if your tech sucks, you just need to use more of it.

I wish Light rifles were able to do at least 1 point.  They still work against BA and standard infantry.
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Terrace

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #49 on: 21 June 2019, 22:31:21 »
don't forget about Heavy Rifles. They can still throw a 6 point round at AC-5 range.  Sure ammo is 4 (?) shots/ton.  For dirtbag militia, I think they'd fit the bill.

Medium Rifles are worse, but anything in numbers will work.  ... brute force is brute force, if your tech sucks, you just need to use more of it.

I wish Light rifles were able to do at least 1 point.  They still work against BA and standard infantry.

Nah, Rifle Cannons of any kind are hopelessly obsolete, and would only be encountered on the really poor worlds, purely because Field Guns can only carry a single ton of ammo per gun. Autocannons, on the other hand, are plentiful enough that any planetary militia that has a budget worth a damn could grab a few for Field Guns, and the only Autocannon that has a similar number of shots per ton to the Heavy Rifle is the AC/20, and I'm sure I don't need to go into why that's obviously better if you're gonna be carrying less than 10 rounds.

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #50 on: 22 June 2019, 00:12:07 »
Couldn't you fit two AC/20s in a 28-trooper platoon?

you can but one single soldier dead and one AC/20 is gone.

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #51 on: 22 June 2019, 06:07:50 »
Good point... yet another reason for Taurian troops...  ^-^

Wolf72

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #52 on: 22 June 2019, 08:55:26 »
doh! one ton? that would really hurt an infantry gun for HR's.  once you can get 2 or 3 tons, it's not a total waste if that's what you can get.

They could always 'upgrade' to a rifle platoon after the ammo is spent, too.
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Sir Chaos

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #53 on: 22 June 2019, 09:33:50 »
That's 25 damage per round in discrete 5-point chunks. It gives you most of a RAC/5's damage potential in a package that's much simpler, mechanically speaking. The RAC/5 might be fancier (and you can field 2 of them in a platoon capable of hauling around 5 LAC/5s), but they just don't have that Dirtbag Militia feel to them, you know?

An RAC/5 with one ton of ammo, don´t forget that. DAKKA-DAKKA-DAKKA-click-click-click...
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Terrace

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #54 on: 25 June 2019, 16:19:23 »
Bringing up another option for Field Guns, I'd recommend Artillery Cannons (the direct-fire versions) when your opponent is going to field Battle Armor.

Or would that be too high-end for a Dirtbag Militia?

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #55 on: 25 June 2019, 16:22:29 »
Not really . . . and the rifles mentioned earlier?  They are useful for BA killing.
Colt Ward
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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #56 on: 25 June 2019, 16:49:48 »
Artillery Cannons and Fuel Air Munitions are...  :drool:  >:D

Terrace

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #57 on: 25 June 2019, 17:18:44 »
Not really . . . and the rifles mentioned earlier?  They are useful for BA killing.

I'm really not enthusiastic about Rifles. Artillery Cannons, on the other hand? A Sniper Cannon can one-shot most kinds of Inner Sphere Medium BA suits, with the Long Tom Cannon also wiping out most Clan Heavies, along with all but the most heavily-armored Heavy and Assault-weight suits that aren't running with Reactive armor.

Colt Ward

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #58 on: 26 June 2019, 11:39:04 »
Sure, but higher weight so you need more troops to keep them functioning and rifles are also a lower technology.
Colt Ward
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Kidd

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #59 on: 26 June 2019, 12:09:19 »

so you need more troops

I think this is an important consideration if you're playing Nation Simulation, you do not have an infinite supply of warm bodies so when deciding whether to go AC/5 or Medium Rifle, you should be figuring the trade-offs - e.g., the country can afford 10 of the former, or 13 of the latter, make your choice.

Colt Ward

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #60 on: 26 June 2019, 12:18:28 »
Its also a tactical consideration . . . for example a Gauss Rifle field gun platoon can absorb a limited amount of damage before the firepower is halved.  The medium rifle is 5 tons?  That means I can break that platoon up into squads to spread that firepower across the battlefield, so a platoon gets broken up into three 8 man squads so they can suffer nearly 30% casualties in the squad before the gun b/c inop.  Though if kept together as a platoon, I can get 4 rifles and maybe sustain the 3 rifles longer than individual squads could do in combat.

Yeah, it may not do much to mechs or armor, but it SHOULD be more available to marginal planets' militia and will still be effective for the ammo count.
Colt Ward
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Terrace

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #61 on: 26 June 2019, 12:46:26 »
Sure, but higher weight so you need more troops to keep them functioning and rifles are also a lower technology.

Yeah, but they're a lot easier to aim simply due to the nature of how Artillery Cannons work (you target the hex, not the unit(s) occupying that hex), so you're not gonna have nearly as many missed shots. That one shot will delete the entire BA squad on the spot. The only BA suit I can see surviving even a Long Tom Cannon would be the Black Wolf, a Clan Heavy BA that sports Reactive armor, and that's only found among Clan Wolf.

But since we obviously disagree, I suggest the compromise of simply having them be equally valid choices, with it coming down to personal preference.

Kidd

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #62 on: 26 June 2019, 12:54:02 »
Yeah, but they're a lot easier to aim simply due to the nature of how Artillery Cannons work (you target the hex, not the unit(s) occupying that hex), so you're not gonna have nearly as many missed shots. That one shot will delete the entire BA squad on the spot. The only BA suit I can see surviving even a Long Tom Cannon would be the Black Wolf, a Clan Heavy BA that sports Reactive armor, and that's only found among Clan Wolf.

But since we obviously disagree, I suggest the compromise of simply having them be equally valid choices, with it coming down to personal preference.
Capability is not a question.

The question is how dirtbag one wants one's militia to be :D

Colt Ward

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #63 on: 26 June 2019, 13:06:58 »
Yeah, but they're a lot easier to aim simply due to the nature of how Artillery Cannons work (you target the hex, not the unit(s) occupying that hex), so you're not gonna have nearly as many missed shots. That one shot will delete the entire BA squad on the spot. The only BA suit I can see surviving even a Long Tom Cannon would be the Black Wolf, a Clan Heavy BA that sports Reactive armor, and that's only found among Clan Wolf.

But since we obviously disagree, I suggest the compromise of simply having them be equally valid choices, with it coming down to personal preference.

Not disagreeing really- I think artillery should be everywhere!  or at least every defensive position, comes with being a redleg.  Its just the matter of IIRC the cannons are not as common (and LTCs at that) as the 'systems' and such a 'high' tech piece is more likely to be with House regulars.  Rifles could be manufactured on world and is not going to be the type of weapon system someone up the hierarchy will poach.  Some regional lord decides he needs to expand his personal forces (especially in FWL!) and he will likely start eyeballing his retainers to see what he can appropriate.
Colt Ward
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Matti

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #64 on: 05 July 2019, 14:32:42 »
Dirtbag Militia 'mechs come from only 1 book:
TRO 3025.

reason? 3039 and 2750 have tech that Dirtbags don't have access to.
Do we count TRO 3025 Revised? Because Sentinel is a Dirtbag 'Mech.
You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights errant, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

kaliban

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #65 on: 05 July 2019, 15:02:32 »
Its also a tactical consideration . . . for example a Gauss Rifle field gun platoon can absorb a limited amount of damage before the firepower is halved.  The medium rifle is 5 tons?  That means I can break that platoon up into squads to spread that firepower across the battlefield, so a platoon gets broken up into three 8 man squads so they can suffer nearly 30% casualties in the squad before the gun b/c inop.  Though if kept together as a platoon, I can get 4 rifles and maybe sustain the 3 rifles longer than individual squads could do in combat.

Yeah, it may not do much to mechs or armor, but it SHOULD be more available to marginal planets' militia and will still be effective for the ammo count.

I believe there is a maximum of 4 field guns per platoon.

Gauss Rifles are not the type of weapon I imagine for Periphery militia but even the good old AC/5 makes a weapon for them - specially if you get some second hand ones. I usually play 2 rifle motorized squads unit with 16 troops and a single AC/5. The rifles range combines very well with the AC/5 range.

Col Toda

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #66 on: 10 July 2019, 08:16:20 »
Yet another ERA Specific question . The Idea for Basic 3025 gear on the whole is OK until the Repubic ERA . All militaries down size pushing Battle Armor and more advanced combat gear to militias and scapping miltia gear instead makes some sense . So on paper a certain percentage of the military hardware is recorded as destroyed or decommissioned . So you will see the better stuff 3075 + . 

kaliban

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #67 on: 10 July 2019, 08:51:19 »
Yet another ERA Specific question . The Idea for Basic 3025 gear on the whole is OK until the Repubic ERA . All militaries down size pushing Battle Armor and more advanced combat gear to militias and scapping miltia gear instead makes some sense . So on paper a certain percentage of the military hardware is recorded as destroyed or decommissioned . So you will see the better stuff 3075 + .

if I understood right, maybe the other way around. If the main Houses were decomissionning their conventional infantry equipment to create Battle Armor units, these equipment could eventually reach smaller States and Pirate Kingdoms and form numerous dirtybag militias.

 

truetanker

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #68 on: 10 July 2019, 16:46:56 »
Selling: Used (normal wear) Auto-Rifle. Asking 200 C-Bills each. FIRM ... bulk cases only includes Kleankit brand cleaning supplies with every 50 rifleso sold. Ammo extra.

TT
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
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That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
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Daryk

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #69 on: 10 July 2019, 17:09:59 »
Auto-Rifles?  The 80 C-Bill ones??  ???

truetanker

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #70 on: 10 July 2019, 20:22:34 »
Selling: Used (normal wear) Auto-Rifle. Asking 200 C-Bills each. FIRM ... bulk cases only includes Kleankit brand cleaning supplies with every 50 rifles sold. Ammo extra.

TT

I aslo should have said " Some assembly required. "
TT
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That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
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Daryk

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #71 on: 10 July 2019, 20:37:14 »
Still pretty steep, even assuming you're using an unusually disarmed era...

kaliban

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #72 on: 10 July 2019, 20:56:04 »
I noticed one thing is missing: Dirtbag Militia should use modified IndustrialMechs, no?




Terrace

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #73 on: 10 July 2019, 21:02:03 »
I noticed one thing is missing: Dirtbag Militia should use modified IndustrialMechs, no?

A hard No on that. This is about giving your players a challenge with introtech, remember?

truetanker

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #74 on: 10 July 2019, 21:14:52 »
Still pretty steep, even assuming you're using an unusually disarmed era...

200 C-Bills for 50 rifles is steep? You said it before, 80 apiece new... times 50 equals 4000... I'm selling them 200 for same 50 rifles...

That's a bargain, assuming 44 rifles are fit for active duty after reassemble that is...

Buyer beware... and all that!  :thumbsup:
TT
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That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #75 on: 11 July 2019, 03:15:25 »
The first two sentences made it sound like it was 200 each.  The bulk cases only bit came later, and I read that as 50 x 200 = 10,000 per case.

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #76 on: 11 July 2019, 08:36:30 »
A hard No on that. This is about giving your players a challenge with introtech, remember?

IndustrialMechs can be done with Introtech. I missed the point.

Terrace

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #77 on: 11 July 2019, 09:25:20 »
IndustrialMechs are far too fragile, even when compared to Introtech Mechs. Armed IndustrialMechs tend to explode even faster than the typical Light BattleMechs, because they often can't move fast enough to build up the movement modifier that they need to survive, given their low armor levels.

So no. Straight up BattleMechs only, please.

Colt Ward

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #78 on: 11 July 2019, 13:15:28 »
But that is not what this scrapings of the bottom of the barrel has to use . . . and that IndiMech is still going to move faster than foot infantry.
Colt Ward
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kaliban

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #79 on: 11 July 2019, 13:29:54 »
IndustrialMechs are far too fragile, even when compared to Introtech Mechs. Armed IndustrialMechs tend to explode even faster than the typical Light BattleMechs, because they often can't move fast enough to build up the movement modifier that they need to survive, given their low armor levels.

So no. Straight up BattleMechs only, please.

You say this because you never played a 100ton CargoMech carring a handheld AC/20 and kicking with double damage from Industrial TSM, piloted by a retired elite 82years old mechwarrior in urban scenarios. I did  :)

Terrace

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #80 on: 11 July 2019, 13:31:26 »
But that is not what this scrapings of the bottom of the barrel has to use . . . and that IndiMech is still going to move faster than foot infantry.

Dirtbag Militia is actually a step or two above the level you're talking about. These guys are supposed to be using Introtech to put up a decent fight against units upgraded with lostech, or even Clan technology. Can you honestly say an armed IndustrialMech would be anything more than a momentary speedbump to the SLDF Royal Divisions?

Colt Ward

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #81 on: 11 July 2019, 13:41:53 »
Or they are what the local High Potentate is using to cow the masses . . .

Remember, quantity has a quality all its own.  Sure that medium mech has a gauss rifle that does horrible damage to IndiMech . . . but it has a ton of ammo.  So what happens when I send 2 or 3 lances of converted IndiMechs and a company of cheap armor (hello Scorpions!) out to get that mech?

If you cannot field a true battlemech but can field a converted IndiMech that has a AC/5 or LRM rack which is better- no mech at all or rough approximation of the same abilities under armed & armored?  Some of the armed IndiMechs get quite capable but they are almost as situational as a UrbanMech.  Also a low-resource unit like that is a lot more likely to end up in the militia's hands and the local militia's command SHOULD have a plan somewhere to impress IndiMechs to be armed.
Colt Ward
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"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

kaliban

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #82 on: 11 July 2019, 13:53:11 »
Dirtbag Militia is actually a step or two above the level you're talking about. These guys are supposed to be using Introtech to put up a decent fight against units upgraded with lostech, or even Clan technology. Can you honestly say an armed IndustrialMech would be anything more than a momentary speedbump to the SLDF Royal Divisions?

I posted a fully converted IndustrialMech in the Fan Designs. You can take your conclusion.

If you compare in a c-bills basis or BV basis, it is better to invest in combat vehicles. But if you assume that you have a plenty of IndustrialMechs available for modification you just spend a fraction of the value to retrofit it. Even not converted or with minimum changes, they remain useful close combat assets if the terrain favors it. Even an unomodified 50ton IndustrialMech with TSM and carrying a "club" can be an annoying problem in urban combat.

Suralin

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #83 on: 11 July 2019, 21:00:22 »
On that note, what's the general opinion of a militia using locally-produced low-tech Support Vees? A cobbled-together LRM flatbed would be quite ineffective, sure, but it could still lob some extra LRMs over a hill without being in too much danger itself. And if nothing else, a rattletrap like that could be a surprising ambush predator with RL/20s.

kaliban

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #84 on: 12 July 2019, 12:16:28 »
On that note, what's the general opinion of a militia using locally-produced low-tech Support Vees? A cobbled-together LRM flatbed would be quite ineffective, sure, but it could still lob some extra LRMs over a hill without being in too much danger itself. And if nothing else, a rattletrap like that could be a surprising ambush predator with RL/20s.

It is reasonable that any planet with millions of people has a minimum industrial base to produce vehicles, even military grade light ones. They will probably depend on import of weapons and small equipment.

Heavy APC, Scorpion Light Tank and Hetzer are typical designs that can produced (legally or ilegally) almost everywhere.

Colt Ward

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #85 on: 12 July 2019, 12:20:15 »
Honestly the Hetzer should be more available than the Scorpion . . . big wheeled armored box with a BFG pointing forward . . . or missiles.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

kaliban

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #86 on: 12 July 2019, 12:32:05 »
Honestly the Hetzer should be more available than the Scorpion . . . big wheeled armored box with a BFG pointing forward . . . or missiles.

Yes and no.

Tracked vehicles are in fact simpler than all-wheels traction. Any planet than can produce bulldozers and other construction vehicles has the technical base to produce tracked vehicles.

On the other hand, wheeled combat vehicles may be variants of civilian vehicles (Hetzer is claimed as being that)

Anyway, it becomes a difficult discussion as Battletech is by far not hard sci-fi and Battletech lore is extremely confuse.

It really depends on what you like more. Just yesterday, I was designing a light tank armed with a Heavy Rifle as an indigenous development in Von Strang's World (a Periphery rogue state).

If a crazy dude in North Korea make nukes, why not a dictator that rules a PLANET cannot make a simple battle tank????

Colt Ward

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #87 on: 12 July 2019, 12:39:19 »
Yeah, it was not the tracks that were a problem . . . its the turret, turret ring, recoil compensators and reloading mechanisms all fitting in a turret- and all of it having to function to a certain point to be combat viable rather than a liability.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Cannonshop

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #88 on: 12 July 2019, 20:51:54 »
Or they are what the local High Potentate is using to cow the masses . . .

Remember, quantity has a quality all its own.  Sure that medium mech has a gauss rifle that does horrible damage to IndiMech . . . but it has a ton of ammo.  So what happens when I send 2 or 3 lances of converted IndiMechs and a company of cheap armor (hello Scorpions!) out to get that mech?

If you cannot field a true battlemech but can field a converted IndiMech that has a AC/5 or LRM rack which is better- no mech at all or rough approximation of the same abilities under armed & armored?  Some of the armed IndiMechs get quite capable but they are almost as situational as a UrbanMech.  Also a low-resource unit like that is a lot more likely to end up in the militia's hands and the local militia's command SHOULD have a plan somewhere to impress IndiMechs to be armed.

No 'mech is better than an Indiemech under the Dirtbag Militia concept-the concept isn't to make the least effective militia you can, it's to use "Introtech" gear and builds to become a problem for top-shelf forces...and do so on a tight budget.

That industrialmech represents a sink of resources to arm and 'armor' it, that could be better spent on actually effective elements like vehicles, ammunition, artillery or even infantry troops.

IOW it's not an asset.  think "Finland in the Winter war".  The Finns didn't waste huge amounts of money converting tractors into wannabe-tanks, they spent their very small budget and manpower on weapons and systems that were effective and could be effectively maintained and used in the field.

neither of which is true of an armed Indie mech.

remember, the dirtbag concept revolves around putting up one hell of a fight on a tight budget, not dressing up a farmall as an MBT that can't hold up against...light tanks.  The direction to be looking, is the following:

1. You need to max out every C-bill. this tends to mean commonality of components to maximize every kilogram of storage/production/shipping space and every hour of troop training in your support arm. (aka going to a standardized model for powerplants or chargers so you only have to hire and train a single specialist to maintain them, choosing common calibers or similar weapons to maximize training time/outcome, etc.)
2. You don't have Helm Core Tech to help you out.
3. This means building to a tactical concept that uses a team concept balancing strengths to neutralize your weaknesses.  (aka if you even HAVE 'mechs, they're a single type doing a specific role, other roles being covered by vehicles or infantry.) 

an armed Industrial doesn't do that-it can't compete, so it's smarter not to try that route.  Leave that to the morons from the Republic who don't have a functional grasp of long term survival or much in the way of practical experience, and the occasional Pirate who thinks being a ten meter tall target that is semi-immobile and poorly protected is just the thing to cow the peasants.

in simplest terms, "Dirtbag Militia" is about punching above your weight, it's the planetary miliz giving the Jade Falcons a bloody nose,  not the local Lord stroking his ego with the appearance of capability trying to mask a LACK of capability.
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

Daryk

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Re: Dirtbag Militia and how to configure it.
« Reply #89 on: 13 July 2019, 01:13:23 »
The more you explain this concept, the happier I am with my Glenmora Planetary Militia...  :)

 

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