Battletech tie-ins

[Ramseti]

BLUF: Was there any attempt to tie in a product release or event to the launch of the Battletech game by HBS? 

I'm going to try to keep this directed to a single point as much as possible, and I ask any comments keep it there so it doesn't get locked.  Ok, so on reddit a discussion was brought up about the launch of the HBS game, its popularity, and the lack of anything to really advertise Battletech itself.  There were some valid points brought up from a purely marketing perspective, and there were also quite a few comments discussing player's frustrations with the situation (note, if you've never been to /r/battletech, the comments there are a lot more blunt than are typically allowed on these forums, so take that for what it's worth).  Now, most of us already know that new boxed sets are coming out "soon", that ilClan was split and the first part is coming out "soon", and that other products are in the pipeline for "soon" as well.  That's a good thing, but, again, does nothing for the current situation. 

The HBS game has sold very well apparently, and for good reason.  However, its average player numbers are beginning to decline now that it's been out for a few weeks.  With that being said, it's been difficult to watch new players come to the forums there and ask "how do I play" and people having to resort to "ebay is your best bet for x product".  Personally, I've watched my FLGS go in the past 3 years from 100+ mini's and 10-15 books, to 10 mini's and 0 books, with no desire to restock their shelves any time soon.  Anecdotal, I know, but frustrating none-the-less.  I'm not trying to rehash arguments from the "New and Upcoming" thread necessarily as, again, we know "soon".  I know that the game dev's are doing their best here, and are probably not at liberty to discuss internal policies and planning.  But has any coordination been attempted between the game dev's and the line dev's here?  This was a golden opportunity for brand marketing, and it seems like it's completely lost at this point.  MW5 Mercs is due out soon, and I worry that something similar will happen there.  Is there any hope for an event, a product, a ... anything ... to tie in to the publicity that these games bring?  We all want the game to thrive, and new players are there, but without anything to point them towards, their attention will be short-lived and the BT community is back to square 1.  Additionally, this site itself has issues with broken links and product descriptions for OOP items. 

Is there any way to tie this together - the marketing, advertisement, and overall organization - so that the video games (or even new products like the boxed sets) don't grab attention that can't be held?  Again, I'm not looking at the products themselves, and I'd like to avoid going down that discussion path.  I simply want to know what can be done to maximize the business value that is sitting as pure potential right now.

[Red Pins]

Hmm - Well.  Disclaimer; I'm not a marketing wonk or beemer (nee urbie), just an interested party.

Short answer - no.  No novel release, sourcebook, movie buzz, starter box - nothing.  It makes several of us cry to see the nostalgia and interest factors ignored with a glaring wall of silence.  But, well, that's typical for this IP.

*Edit - Didn't need to be warned.  Again.

[Kingfisher]

I came to this thread from the reddit thread which i was directed too from /tg/; I have been reading about this idea and chatting with others online about it all night.  I made an account on this forum for no reason other than to say this...

As someone who first saw the cartoon and played MW2 in the 90's, then MW4/MW4:M in the 2000's, Battletech (2018) was the first time I seriously considered getting into the TT game. I finally get that mechs really do play better in turn-based strategy than first-person shooting; Positioning, rolling hits and reading stats make a difference when you can plan out your moves and not just go in shoointg wildly at your targets.

I have also realized that Battletech Tabletop is a mess and there's no way I'm going to end up getting into it, nor could I ever convince my friends (many of whom have shown interest in playing the new videogame) in bothering with it. I'm not sure if they could actually revamp, reboot or otherwise fix it up. It's just as much the

I'm just one person, but for every one of me there's a thousand more who just said nothing and moved on. Nostalgia is a hell of a drug and I can still get hooked on BT, just not on the table...it's like the one product that doesn't actually want me to buy it.

[Red Pins]

Umm.  Yes?  Your comments kind of remind me of Gurps Coalition/Juicers with all the skull robots and such.  REALLY wanted to buy it, knew there was nobody playing it in town.

For what it's worth, you might look into Alpha Strike; I don't have an opponent (that I can find, anyway) but my understanding is the rule set has been streamlined to something more reasonable.  OTOH, there isn't that much support from what I understand.  Why not ask at /tg/ if somebody who owns and plays it thinks it's worth it?

[Hythos]

** Note - this isn't intended as any official answer...
I can only comment on what I have seen at my "Firebase", which is a local game store from which I host weekly Battletech games... That in the past two weeks, I've gained 5 new players to double my weekly attendance, because these new players have played PGI/HBS's games, and are interested in tabletop as a result. Surprisingly, at least one of them is in his 30's, and had not heard of BT before HBS BT.

I, as a Catalyst Demo Team Agent, personally take many efforts to attract players locally and regionally, though I know I could do more. That is the purpose of the CDT, and it works in a way that other game mfg's don't do (whether it might be needed in any case or not)..
But my efforts are also self-serving in that I get new/more people to play with :) so it's not entirely out of altuism.... Hehe

[Sartris]

Unfortunately the back to basics refocusing was about six months too late for the HBS game. While the sourcebooks over the past five years have been very good, but there has been almost zero proper support for new players. The fire and forget style of small sourcebook runs, especially when so chronologically haphazard, makes getting into the universe very difficult. There haven’t been any consistent or reliable inroads to build your way into the hobby

If your concern about the line is it’s focus, that’s changing for the better this year with the new box, map sheets, core rulebook reprints, and hopefully some other new player-centric releases.  My hope has long been a system that treats the Btu more as a board game based around boxed expansions that introduce different eras and rules expansions but that seems like the least likely of pipe dreams

If your problem is the rules, then there’s not much to be done about that, sorry.

[SteelRaven]

PC games have always been treated as their own animal, in part to insure both parties have narrative freedom without tripping over each other when it comes to whats canon and the second part because both parties are part of different IPs. I always took the position that the PC games are like your own TT campaign, it can be based on canon but your own actions may never be reflected in the official canon (I like how MW4:Mercs handled it, "They gave Peter the credit for the victory but we where cool with it." )

That said, we have had BT writers do fluff for MWO (which I'm personally have mix emotions about) and there has been teasing regarding HBS inspired campaign though the production slum seems to range from worry to teeth grinding. Guessing allot of stuff is predicated on when the new box sets are release though that's only a uninformed guess.   

 

[Sartris]

I don't even think there has to be explicit tie-ins. Just have a readily-available series of scaffolding products that transforms interest from the PC game into the TT game.

[Kingfisher]

I get that the computer games are they're own thing, it's why the idea of mech minis never even occured to me until the new one (I never played mechcommander, though I'm starting to regret it).

I know people have been saying the new stuff is coming soon, and it's definetly possible that a good job on that can sell me and others on the product.  The thing is I saw a guy in that reddit thread come in to learn about BT and get converted to 40k when someone told him that GW was getting their act together.  I guess it's just odd when you come into a game and everyone, even long time players, are discussing how out of date and hard to enter it feels.

As a potential cosutmer, playing the new game and literally on the verge of buying into the minitures line with some friends, I just want to feel like the game, company and product is worth supporting.  :-\

[Daryk]

Not all of us think the game is out of date and hard to enter.  It's just that those that do are more vocal.

[SteelRaven]

People tend to vent online, which isn't very healthy in a social context. Most the people I play with avoid most forums, including this one, due to gamer rage being so common.

[Sellsword]

Not all of us think the game is out of date and hard to enter.  It's just that those that do are more vocal.

And this is actually a very recent trend.  The vocal majority for the longest time was the Grognards telling everyone Battletech is fine and great the way it is.  It will be interesting to see what direction the line developers decide to go after the ilclan as the fan base seems more open to change than at any other point that I can think of on these forums.

[SteelRaven]

...The vocal majority for the longest time was the Grognards telling everyone Battletech is fine and great the way it is.

Still around, just post about 'Alpha Strike' and see how many rage post. 

[Sartris]

See my sig for an entire post on how to get into the product line

[Sellsword]

Still around, just post about 'Alpha Strike' and see how many rage post.

Just think what will happen if TPTB decide to change the game after Ilclan.  It is just another example of the sharp divide in the fan base.

I can respect the people who love the game and don’t want it to change.  I felt that way when D&D 3rd edition came out.  I dropped the game at 3rd edition.  It was too different for me.  Of course it went on to be the most successful version of the game. Some times change works but you never know. 4th didn’t do so well.

The current version of the game is great but after 30+ years, i’m Ready for a change.  The markets are completely different now than the 80s and 90s. The fan base for rpgs, war and board games are larger and more diverse than ever and the accessability and visibility of these types of games is easier.  I feel like B-Tech is missing out on large potentional customer base by staying the same as it has ever been.  Either the game has to change or the way it is marketed has to change.

 B-tech is in a steep decline and needs something new and innovative to make it more appealing.  What that is, I don’t know but it isn’t going to last another 30 years unless something changes.

[Dmon]

As far as I am aware the situation is that some kind of internal stupidity has gone in within CGL and all the top BT people have either been kicked out or left.  the BTVG is the biggest thing to happen to the BT property in a decade but there was nobody around who cares/had enough power to do anything about it.

And then there is all the stupid stuff about the fractured IP so CGL can not/will not use anything that are created by other companies for fear of being sued. So have seemingly decided to ignore the whole thing.

[Kingfisher]

As far as I am aware the situation is that some kind of internal stupidity has gone in within CGL and all the top BT people have either been kicked out or left.

This seems like the most common opinion.

I like the positivity here though, personally I'll keep this all in mind.

[Red Pins]

Don't.  Just - Don't. 

[Kingfisher]

Don't.  Just - Don't. 

:thumbsup:

[PyreLight]

After the release of the videogame, I have had 7-8 friends and acquaintances asking to get into the universe and the tabletop game. They say that they tried to search their local game store as well as international online retailers, and that they cannot find any books or minis whatsoever because all of it is basically out of print. They were especially interested in the Introductory Box Sets and would've easily bought a couple due to the video game, but alas, it seems like CGL hasn't had any plans to exploit the synergy and popularity of the video game for reasons that I am not familiar with.

I thought this Reddit post was a good summary of some of the missed opportunities by not timing marketing and physical products with the success of this game: https://www.reddit.com/r/battletech/comments/8igj4j/frustrated_lifelong_fan_a_major_opportunity_is/ Perhaps this can be used as constructive feedback to improve the current state of things, especially the website and store.

A brief sidenote: It would also be nice if some of the items (posters, t-shirts, etc.) that are sold only at one-time conventions like GenCon and Mechcon would be available to buy online for those of us who cannot fly to Indiana or Vancouver.

[SteelRaven]

HBS tried crowd funding for merch, only half the stuff got enough founder to be produced. There just isn't enough demand as of yet to produce merch for anything other than cons, especially with fly-by-night internet retailers constantly ripping off designs. 

[guardiandashi]

After the release of the videogame, I have had 7-8 friends and acquaintances asking to get into the universe and the tabletop game. They say that they tried to search their local game store as well as international online retailers, and that they cannot find any books or minis whatsoever because all of it is basically out of print. They were especially interested in the Introductory Box Sets and would've easily bought a couple due to the video game, but alas, it seems like CGL hasn't had any plans to exploit the synergy and popularity of the video game for reasons that I am not familiar with.

I thought this Reddit post was a good summary of some of the missed opportunities by not timing marketing and physical products with the success of this game: https://www.reddit.com/r/battletech/comments/8igj4j/frustrated_lifelong_fan_a_major_opportunity_is/ Perhaps this can be used as constructive feedback to improve the current state of things, especially the website and store.

A brief sidenote: It would also be nice if some of the items (posters, t-shirts, etc.) that are sold only at one-time conventions like GenCon and Mechcon would be available to buy online for those of us who cannot fly to Indiana or Vancouver.

The root problem is that its basically a small core market, and while everyone wishes it were otherwise they really don't seem to have the cash reserves to actually pay for things like the boxed set, with loans that eat up a significant portion of the profit, (which likely isn't all that high of a margin) to begin with.  When you have a situation like that, there really isn't a good way to plan and arrange more or less simultaneous launches of product.

[Sellsword]

I’ve been very critical of CGL in the past but I can’t blame them for not doing any tie ins with HBS.  The new line coordinator and his team are working to put out new intro sets, finish up books that were supposed to come out years ago and generally put there own “stamp” onto the B-Tech line.  Things are coming but it takes time. It would have been nice to coordinate with HBS but i suspect it is difficult to coordinate simultaneous releases between companies.  I’d be more concerned if HBS had the full IP and didn’t release the computer and board game together.  To me, this just looks like bad timing.  I’m in a wait and see mode with CGL. I’ll give the new guys a chance and see where they take us.

[Cubby]

But has any coordination been attempted between the game dev's and the line dev's here?  This was a golden opportunity for brand marketing, and it seems like it's completely lost at this point.  MW5 Mercs is due out soon, and I worry that something similar will happen there.  Is there any hope for an event, a product, a ... anything ... to tie in to the publicity that these games bring? 

Despite the beemer I wear and the work I do on a volunteer basis for CGL, I'm not here to be an apologist. You're not wrong, the opportunity presented by the PC game's release was not fully capitalized on. There are many reasons for that, most of which predate my having taken on this role, so I can't speak to all of them.

I want to remind everyone that there were some initial connections between the companies. PDFs of tabletop product were included as add-ons to the Kickstarter. Randall and other CGL staff did a few livestreams playing tabletop against Jordan and Mitch of HBS. But that goes back awhile.

I have seen the criticism both here and on Reddit, and there are many good points being made. But one thing I do want to point out, is that it's easy to toss around terms like "brand marketing" and make assumptions that doing "tie-ins" to the game would somehow result in a bonanza for the tabletop game. Many of these posts amount to: new video game + "do marketing" = profit!

But that's all based on the assumption that a large percentage of people who play the video game could also be converted into tabletop players, and that the percentage is large enough to be worth directing CGL resources toward it and not other things. It's not a "do both" scenario--if I'm spending what time I can dedicate to BT comms work toward that, then I'm not spending it on other things which might have a greater long-term impact.

The same goes for the production pipeline. At the moment, management is focused on getting the new box sets out, and making them as high-quality as possible. My personal opinion is that diverting resources to try to piggyback off another company's product, at the cost of further delaying the essential core product your own business sorely, sorely needs, is not a recipe for long-term success.

Are there simpler, low- or no-cost mar/comm things that could have been done to help transition video game players over? Yes. That's on me. But timing plays a role--I've only recently been able to connect with other key people in the organization, and the push really needed to start six months ago, meaning the planning for it would have ideally started six months before that.

As a potential cosutmer, playing the new game and literally on the verge of buying into the minitures line with some friends, I just want to feel like the game, company and product is worth supporting.  :-\

Absolutely fair. Hopefully the new boxed sets will help you feel that your time--and money--is well-spent. I wish they'd been available for you at the time the new PC game ignited your interest.

I thought this Reddit post was a good summary of some of the missed opportunities by not timing marketing and physical products with the success of this game: https://www.reddit.com/r/battletech/comments/8igj4j/frustrated_lifelong_fan_a_major_opportunity_is/ Perhaps this can be used as constructive feedback to improve the current state of things, especially the website and store. 

I don't feel the need to wave my resume around as this person does, but their criticism basically amounts to "the website isn't good." I know. I'm aware. It's one of the big-picture things I'm focused on.

But to their point about "hiring someone" to do this; as I said above, for the moment my efforts and those of other folks I've been working with are solely volunteer efforts. And I'm regularly blown away by how much time and dedication people are putting in.

[Failure16]

Quite aside from the lack of synthesis with outside media/companies, I always felt strongly that CGL lost a golden opportunity when they squandered the release of the redesigned Unseen/Legacy 'Mechs.  The release of The Warhammer and Locust models engendered a considerable amount of positive buzz and feedback, but there were no miniatures to go with them for a long time--and for some (many?  Even some of the allowable Dougram or Ost-series seem to lie fallow) there may never be any.

[PyreLight]

Despite the beemer I wear and the work I do on a volunteer basis for CGL, I'm not here to be an apologist. You're not wrong, the opportunity presented by the PC game's release was not fully capitalized on. There are many reasons for that, most of which predate my having taken on this role, so I can't speak to all of them.

I want to remind everyone that there were some initial connections between the companies. PDFs of tabletop product were included as add-ons to the Kickstarter. Randall and other CGL staff did a few livestreams playing tabletop against Jordan and Mitch of HBS. But that goes back awhile.

I have seen the criticism both here and on Reddit, and there are many good points being made. But one thing I do want to point out, is that it's easy to toss around terms like "brand marketing" and make assumptions that doing "tie-ins" to the game would somehow result in a bonanza for the tabletop game. Many of these posts amount to: new video game + "do marketing" = profit!

But that's all based on the assumption that a large percentage of people who play the video game could also be converted into tabletop players, and that the percentage is large enough to be worth directing CGL resources toward it and not other things. It's not a "do both" scenario--if I'm spending what time I can dedicate to BT comms work toward that, then I'm not spending it on other things which might have a greater long-term impact.

The same goes for the production pipeline. At the moment, management is focused on getting the new box sets out, and making them as high-quality as possible. My personal opinion is that diverting resources to try to piggyback off another company's product, at the cost of further delaying the essential core product your own business sorely, sorely needs, is not a recipe for long-term success.

Are there simpler, low- or no-cost mar/comm things that could have been done to help transition video game players over? Yes. That's on me. But timing plays a role--I've only recently been able to connect with other key people in the organization, and the push really needed to start six months ago, meaning the planning for it would have ideally started six months before that.

Absolutely fair. Hopefully the new boxed sets will help you feel that your time--and money--is well-spent. I wish they'd been available for you at the time the new PC game ignited your interest.

I don't feel the need to wave my resume around as this person does, but their criticism basically amounts to "the website isn't good." I know. I'm aware. It's one of the big-picture things I'm focused on.

But to their point about "hiring someone" to do this; as I said above, for the moment my efforts and those of other folks I've been working with are solely volunteer efforts. And I'm regularly blown away by how much time and dedication people are putting in.

Thanks for the information and transparency, Cubby. That really helps a lot in understanding what's going. I guess the answer is as simple as lack of resources and the people at CGL already being overworked, even when doing volunteer work. It's incredible that such amazing people keep it alive to this extent then. I wish you had more available hands at your disposal to set things to their full potential, but them's the breaks. And you're completely right that the collaboration with HBS during the Kickstarer was very impressive and in my opinion optimal. Thanks again!

[Sartris]

i should note that despite the fact that many of us have our criticisms of the IP's management, the vast majority love the game and the universe built around it. And we want you to love it too. The franchise itself is approaching thirty-five years old so there are going to be a lot of opinions about the game. with as many twists and turns as the plot has taken, there are entire generations of very opinionated fans.

Despite the bankruptcy of FASA, the splitting of the IP into digital and physical aspects, the Harmony Gold unseen debacle, major fan revolt over several plot twists (including the civil war over the clix game), and a rapidly changing (and shrinking) tabletop market, the game endures and is playable in a format that would largely be recognizable to someone with the second edition box set from 1985. The franchise endures and we'd be happy to have you join us

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Quite aside from the lack of synthesis with outside media/companies, I always felt strongly that CGL lost a golden opportunity when they squandered the release of the redesigned Unseen/Legacy 'Mechs.  The release of The Warhammer and Locust models engendered a considerable amount of positive buzz and feedback, but there were no miniatures to go with them for a long time--and for some (many?  Even some of the allowable Dougram or Ost-series seem to lie fallow) there may never be any.

A large part of that is the ongoing lawsuit from HG.

[Failure16]

Now.  But not back then.

[Tymers Realm]

Now.  But not back then.

You do realize that because of the Classic redesigns of the Unseen/Reseen, that CGL/IMR got dragged into the most recent HG trolling, right? Once that happened, anything related to the Macross-Inspired Classics that wasn't already printed got shelved. Well except for Shim to put up the line art for the 15 Classics he already did.

Why do you think the new box sets got delayed? In part because, I figure, several of the Mechs that were gonna be in it were Macross-Inspired Classics. IIRC, from the GenCon '15 or '16 displays that had some of the new Classics, the Warhammer and Marauder mini prototypes were on display. And then comes the HG trolling. I can understand CGL/IMR's decision not to keep going on with the Macross-Inpired Classics until that mess is settled. So they had to shift gears on a few that maybe weren't quite ready then and that takes time.

Considering the headaches the Robotech minis game had, I'd say CGL has recovered decently enough on the box sets. And given time, I'm sure IWM will get more of the Dougram-Inspired Classics out too.

[Failure16]

Look, the issue here is about timeliness and having a business plan model that is observable to the customer base because of its proper execution.  Both IMR and CGL make a big deal about not releasing street dates until product is essentially in hand--so why release hints of miniatures without their release concept in hand?

I will be the first to say that everyone (well, the defendants) is getting a raw deal because of this unfolding litigation.  There is no need to point out that no forward movement on half the Unseen is occurring because of it.  The point is that in 2015 there was no litigation.  In 2015, the boxed sets with the Unseen (or simply the miniatures themselves) could have been released, riding the wave of nostalgia and goodwill that was extant when the WHM and LCT redesigns were first touted.  Many of the Unseen that are still able to be released as they were (the Ost-series) still lie fallow. 

It has been said that there is no particular vehicle to release them and that art is not free; fair enough.  Perhaps that should have been thought further through when a handful of the Unseen were released in what became a haphazard form.  Not all of that was CGL's fault.  All of the other media partners are in different financial and developmental situations/cycles, so coordination might well have been impossible.  Indeed, even if they had released every redesigned Unseen in 2015 in a grand boxed set the litigation as it is today would still be ongoing.

But CGL would have gotten its money and boxed sets would have been released then amidst a wave of nostalgia and a dynamic synthesis of popularity from other mediums/sources.

[mbear]

I have also realized that Battletech Tabletop is a mess and there's no way I'm going to end up getting into it, nor could I ever convince my friends (many of whom have shown interest in playing the new videogame) in bothering with it. I'm not sure if they could actually revamp, reboot or otherwise fix it up. It's just as much the

You sort of trailed off there at the end, but someone actually mentioned a product that may be what you're looking for: Alpha Strike. It's a faster playing version of the tabletop game specifically targeting new players who are more familiar with WH40K, Flames of War, etc. Best part is that Alpha Strike Unit cards are available from the Master Unit List website (http://www.masterunitlist.info/) for free, and you can use proxies for your miniatures. So if you have a Missile Boat, use a Devastator marine with a missile launcher. You can check out the Alpha Strike discussion board for more info.

[Kingfisher]

You sort of trailed off there at the end

I wrote that at 4 in the morning after a night of wargaming with friends, during a distressing conversation about BT and just before bed; It's certinaly not my best work.

As for Alpha Strike, this is exactly the problem that people are having. I appreciate your idea of using proxies and unit cards, but I have to convince my friends that this is a game they should want to learn. The fact is that part of the attraction the minitures, and when you go to the CGL page it redirects you to the battletech.com, which sends you to battlecorps.com for purchasing, but ultimatley this chain of links is broken which means you can only buy a PDF of rules for $40. I went to amazon to look for boxes, theres only a few left and prices are going up, not impossible but also not great for trying to convince my friends when i'm not even sure where they go to get access to the product line. It's just sort of an unfortunate situation for all involved, Cubby highlighted that.

Speaking of which, I appreciate the responses so far; This is all helpful and I've become quite enamoured by the community which has such love for a product with so much going on (good and bad). Truth is I'll probably get a lance of IWM mini's to paint with my girlfriend, she's more interested in painting them than warhammer even if we don't end up in the game.

[Sartris]

good news! the PDF rules are not $40, but $15

https://store.catalystgamelabs.com/products/battletech-alpha-strike-pdf

[Kingfisher]

Thanks Sartris. The $40 is probably for the hardcover book link that doesn't work, it's just a maze to find what you need sometimes. Turns out the CGL store is better than the offical Battletech page; So that's already a better place to start, though it's not what you first find when searching.

I do love Battletech, you're right that it's worth it.

[Red Pins]

Thanks Sartris. The $40 is probably for the hardcover book link that doesn't work, it's just a maze to find what you need sometimes. Turns out the CGL store is better than the offical Battletech page; So that's already a better place to start, though it's not what you first find when searching.

I do love Battletech, you're right that it's worth it.

Um.  May I suggest Drive-through RPG, instead?  I wouldn't risk a hardcopy purchase, and there are - problems - with the company store.  I can't support it, myself.

[Sartris]

Done two book orders in the past two months and gotten the books within the week and I’ve never had problems with PDFs

Also drivethru rpgs are password locked so you can’t edit them with eratta, etc. if that’s not a concern, there’s nothing wrong with DTRPG.

[Charistoph]

Done two book orders in the past two months and gotten the books within the week and I’ve never had problems with PDFs

Also drivethru rpgs are password locked so you can’t edit them with eratta, etc. if that’s not a concern, there’s nothing wrong with DTRPG.

Usually if the erratas are updated to the PDF, you can redownload the file.  Depends on the producer, though.

[Daryk]

My experience with Drive-Thru has been entirely positive.  When I lost the thumb drive I had all my books downloaded to, I was able to re-download them without issue...

[Charistoph]

My experience with Drive-Thru has been entirely positive.  When I lost the thumb drive I had all my books downloaded to, I was able to re-download them without issue...

Yeah, redownloading it isn't the problem, the question is if the provider updated the file so that redownloading will include any changes.  I have access to the Heavy Gear Live rulebook, and so when they update that one, I can just download the new version.

[Sartris]

CGL generally only does pdf updates before a new printing. So we’ve been sitting on that core rulebooks eratta now for a hot minute.

Anyway I wasn’t trying to disparage DTRPG (it really is a fine site and they have more than a few of my dollars). just pointing out that the bad old days of the CGL store are past.

[Ramseti]

I want to remind everyone that there were some initial connections between the companies.

Thanks for all the info Cubby.  Is there open/better communication now between the various companies (Catalyst, HBS, PGI, and whomever else) to hopefully remedy some of this?

Are there simpler, low- or no-cost mar/comm things that could have been done to help transition video game players over?

Do you think these things will have an opportunity to show up for MW5, or a Battletech expansion, etc.?  Even without mega-investments, just something to get the crowd going, so to speak.  Painting competitions, unit color creations, or short sales on specific mechs at IWM to coincide with some DLC, another event, just something to get people talking?  I'm the exact opposite of creative, but it'd still be nice to see something community-wise.  Esp. now with Adepticus Titanicus looking like it's going to launch with some really good looking models  :-[

[Cubby]

Thanks for all the info Cubby.  Is there open/better communication now between the various companies (Catalyst, HBS, PGI, and whomever else) to hopefully remedy some of this?

Better than there was at the time of the HBS Kickstarter? It's hard for me to say for sure--I'm not privy to every conversation, not even close. I guess I would say, somewhat?

CGL is included in MechCon, which is primarily a PGI thing, and that's good. And Randall and Jordan have some personal ties that go back awhile. But coordinating a true cross-company marketing effort in any industry, let alone across gaming industry sectors, is very, very difficult and time-consuming.

For example, HBS created the PC game, but all the marketing for it was done by Paradox and backed by (what I can tell from experience, but not direct knowledge) was a significant ad buy. Paradox doesn't know me from a hole in the ground--I've reached out, but that doesn't mean they're inclined to do anything for me. And again, the time I spend trying to get them to do something is time that I'm not spending on an internal effort which may yield better results.

I've said this before, but it's all part of the landscape with a split IP. Fans want to see all the license holders pulling in the same direction. But each company has different factors to consider about what's best for their business, and what's best for them isn't always a priority for everyone else.

The more positive view to take is that, IMO, there's still plenty that we can do to boost awareness of the tabletop game without entering the uncertain waters of cross-company promotions. That's what I'm personally focused on at the moment.

Do you think these things will have an opportunity to show up for MW5, or a Battletech expansion, etc.?  Even without mega-investments, just something to get the crowd going, so to speak.  Painting competitions, unit color creations, or short sales on specific mechs at IWM to coincide with some DLC, another event, just something to get people talking?  I'm the exact opposite of creative, but it'd still be nice to see something community-wise.  Esp. now with Adepticus Titanicus looking like it's going to launch with some really good looking models  :-[

Mega-investments are definitely not necessary--the "plenty that can be done" that I just mentioned can also be done at very low cost to start. It's just a matter of dedicating the time and focus needed.

As far as your specific ideas: painting competitions have been run before, and could be again; it comes up every once in awhile but does take a fairly high level of coordination. As far as a mini sale, remember that Iron Wind Metals is also its own company, and not beholden to CGL management telling it what to put on sale; likewise, profits from that sale would support their company, not CGL.

[GRUD]

HBS tried crowd funding for merch, only half the stuff got enough founder to be produced. There just isn't enough demand as of yet to produce merch for anything other than cons, especially with fly-by-night internet retailers constantly ripping off designs.

I think those failed because the prices were just way too high.  The items looked Cool, but even as much of a BT Collector as I am, I couldn't bite the bullet for anything they had.   :-\

[Colt Ward]

Since my finances got straightened out I have been looking for the links to HBS merch in a effort to pick some of it up.  But that page is now gone unless someone else can  direct me.  The wife went looking for the posters but nothing was there- I figured some of it was HG related since one was a Warhammer IIRC.

[pheonixstorm]

@Cubby you could always try to get MWO, MW5, and HBS BT to ship with a PDF catalog of current BT products. Might even motivate HBS and PGI to offer up some plastic mechs like the IWM museum scale stuff  :P

[SteelRaven]

I think those failed because the prices were just way too high.

The Hoodies cost no more than the ones at my FLGS. Other game related were can get allot pricier, online retailers price gouge geeks and gamers hard anymore.

The Atlas statue was pricey but it was a freak'n huge Atlas statue! Not sure why they didn't make something smaller thus cheaper but hey, at least a couple of people got a wicked cool prize at Mech Con! 

The fact the coasters and beer stein got the founding just tells me it really is a Beer and Pretzels game ;D (I can make other jokes but I'm choosing to take the high road)   

[Cyc]

@Cubby you could always try to get MWO, MW5, and HBS BT to ship with a PDF catalog of current BT products. Might even motivate HBS and PGI to offer up some plastic mechs like the IWM museum scale stuff  :P

Something like the BattleTech Primer CGL released back in 2015?

[mbear]

I wrote that at 4 in the morning after a night of wargaming with friends, during a distressing conversation about BT and just before bed; It's certinaly not my best work.

No problem. Been there.

As for Alpha Strike, this is exactly the problem that people are having. I appreciate your idea of using proxies and unit cards, but I have to convince my friends that this is a game they should want to learn. The fact is that part of the attraction the minitures, and when you go to the CGL page it redirects you to the battletech.com, which sends you to battlecorps.com for purchasing, but ultimatley this chain of links is broken which means you can only buy a PDF of rules for $40. I went to amazon to look for boxes, theres only a few left and prices are going up, not impossible but also not great for trying to convince my friends when i'm not even sure where they go to get access to the product line. It's just sort of an unfortunate situation for all involved, Cubby highlighted that.

Yeah, that kind of sucks. The Battlecorps site should be shut down, IMHO, and redirected to store.catalyst.com or whatever it is now.

If you want minis, visit Iron Wind Metals. https://ironwindmetals.com/ They make lots and lots and lots of metal minis for BattleTech.

Speaking of which, I appreciate the responses so far; This is all helpful and I've become quite enamoured by the community which has such love for a product with so much going on (good and bad). Truth is I'll probably get a lance of IWM mini's to paint with my girlfriend, she's more interested in painting them than warhammer even if we don't end up in the game.

Just re-read this. Ignore my Iron Wind metals link since you've already found it. ;)

[JadeHellbringer]

I think those failed because the prices were just way too high.  The items looked Cool, but even as much of a BT Collector as I am, I couldn't bite the bullet for anything they had.   :-\

Bingo. For a more reasonable price, I'd have jumped at a FWL banner or something like that for my workbench area. But... not for what I was needing to throw at it. It's a pity, because it was really neat stuff they were looking to make, but I have finite resources.  :-\

[nckestrel]

Bingo. For a more reasonable price, I'd have jumped at a FWL banner or something like that for my workbench area. But... not for what I was needing to throw at it. It's a pity, because it was really neat stuff they were looking to make, but I have finite resources.  :-\

Ie. Catalyst's standard answer to "why not X merchandise?" is "We'd love to do X, but haven't found a way to make it work."  It's easy to want X (both from the fan side and CGL's side). It's much more difficult, especially with a small fan base, to make X at a price point that justifies making it. And that justification has to work all the way through the supply chain (CGL, manufacturer, distributor, retailer, fan) or it fails. Thus why the "discount" of not having the cost of retail and most of that supply chain at conventions makes X far more likely to work.

[JadeHellbringer]

Oh I get the reasoning... I just also see my own bank account and know that there's a point where it's not financially feasible for me to pick between purple-eagle banner on my wall or groceries.  xp

[Drewbacca]

Having worked for one of, if not the, largest gaming companies in the industry I can tell you, tie-ins are no gaurantee of success and are a big risk the smaller the company gets. And that is when you OWN your IP and are not just licensing it.

We would all love more Battletech merchandise, but I for one would want to see CGL work more on getting products out and advancing the plot in a concise way then finding someone to make merchandise. Someone buying an intro box is not certain to be a new player, and someone who plays the video game is not automatically going to start playing the table top, I know this from experience.

The best way for CGL to grow the game is to make a good game. Which in my opinion they already do. If you are worried about the direction of the game, teach people to play. In the 28 years since I started playing I must have taught at least 40 people how to play. And even then not all of them still play. This is a niche market and a small one at that.

[Cubby]

I for one would want to see CGL work more on getting products out and advancing the plot in a concise way then finding someone to make merchandise.

Or, to my point above, spending undue amounts of time on trying to get ad placement in another company's product, rather than developing your own.

It's all a question of return on investment. There are lots of worthy ideas being brought up here and elsewhere--honestly, none have really been non-starters. But how many person-hours from top management, how many e-mail chains, how many days and weeks lost waiting for another company's approval are you willing to spend on those ideas? Is there a good chance of the idea happening, or is that effort being directed toward something with a slim hope of actually coming to pass? Is there data to prove that the time and resources will generate a worthwhile return? Or just a general sense of "it would be good to have [blank]"?

And again, there were/are plenty of communications-related things that can be done to provide a quick, easy boost without sucking up unjustified amounts of resources. To the extent I let that opportunity slide by, that's on me.

There's not much more I can say without needing to just put my money where my mouth is, and continue working to improve BT's presence in the gaming landscape.

[Colt Ward]

It is frustrating to see these topics and then go to Amazon to see if any of the still outstanding Legends titles drop and see someone (or now someones, I think its 2) selling self-produced PDFs of their BT adventures using old art.  Or t-shirts with House/Clan logos on Facebook.  Or people selling 3D printed MWO mechs, unseen or variant parts of IWM mechs.

People complain about not having merchandise but then buy unlicensed or just plain stolen IP.

[SteelRaven]

Welcome to the internet :(

[Colt Ward]

Yeah, I hate IP piracy . . . partly b/c if its not paid for we do not get new/expanded IP.  And partly b/c one day I want my own IP, and I cannot stand thieves.

[ActionButler]

I have also realized that Battletech Tabletop is a mess and there's no way I'm going to end up getting into it, nor could I ever convince my friends (many of whom have shown interest in playing the new videogame) in bothering with it. I'm not sure if they could actually revamp, reboot or otherwise fix it up. It's just as much the

I'm just one person, but for every one of me there's a thousand more who just said nothing and moved on. Nostalgia is a hell of a drug and I can still get hooked on BT, just not on the table...it's like the one product that doesn't actually want me to buy it.

Not to needlessly echo what has already been said, but I'll throw out another vote for Alpha Strike. 


I stopped playing Battletech in the early 2000's because of equipment bloat and only came back to the fold a few years ago because of Alpha Strike.  It is not perfect, but it solves a lot of the complexity issues, it solves the time consuming crunch, it solves the slowness, it solves the need for maps, and it solves the need for record sheets.  And it does all of that without throwing out my affection for the setting or the minis.  A lot of longtime players will say that it goes too far and isn't Battletech, or Battletech enough, but if you have never played the game before, it is a great intro.

[Kingfisher]

Despite what anyone may say about the game, the community certainly is active!

Honestly it feels like the pieces are here, just out of order. Nothing is a safe bet, but hopfully something can be done that is both cost effective and intereting enough.

May I suggest Drive-through RPG, instead?  I wouldn't risk a hardcopy purchase, and there are - problems - with the company store.  I can't support it, myself.

Thanks, always happy to have more ideas. I'll check out the RPG and your feelings on the store are noted.

Done two book orders in the past two months and gotten the books within the week and I’ve never had problems with PDFs

As are yours.

The Battlecorps site should be shut down, IMHO...Ignore my Iron Wind metals link since you've already found it. ;)

As are yours, and as you said it happens to all of us :P

Not to needlessly echo what has already been said, but I'll throw out another vote for Alpha Strike. 

This is looking like the best option for starting off, Amazon still has lance boxes with favourite mechs still available. I can force people to try it with me and then I still have the mechs if nothing else. Again, a lot of the utility will come from the painting which people will be up to this summer.