Unseen vs. Reseen/Phoenix vs. Classics

[Lorcan Nagle]

Why are very few people getting the memo that the original anime art is not going to be reused for Battletech ever?  This has been something from the first lawsuit.

All designs since then that used the anime art are or have been redesigned.  The only issue right now is that until the current suit is resolved, new designs with the exact same weapons locations and names can't be drawn up until HG is told shut it, you can't sue on basis of it looks like something you don't have any claim to.

There was that hopeful moment during the 25th anniversary where CGL got permission from Big West/Studio Nue/Sunrise to use the original art again, and fell afoul of the sealed agreement between HG and FASA.  That was almost certainly the final nail in the coffin of trying to get the Unseen back.

(and standard disclaimer, despite my Beemer I have no knowledge of the company's operations at that level, any motivations or opinions in the paragraph above are my speculation and conjecture)

[Luciora]

I remember that as well, but given what happened, I was already resigned to not seeing that art used again, sadly.

There was that hopeful moment during the 25th anniversary where CGL got permission from Big West/Studio Nue/Sunrise to use the original art again, and fell afoul of the sealed agreement between HG and FASA.  That was almost certainly the final nail in the coffin of trying to get the Unseen back.

(and standard disclaimer, despite my Beemer I have no knowledge of the company's operations at that level, any motivations or opinions in the paragraph above are my speculation and conjecture)

[guardiandashi]

There was that hopeful moment during the 25th anniversary where CGL got permission from Big West/Studio Nue/Sunrise to use the original art again, and fell afoul of the sealed agreement between HG and FASA.  That was almost certainly the final nail in the coffin of trying to get the Unseen back.

(and standard disclaimer, despite my Beemer I have no knowledge of the company's operations at that level, any motivations or opinions in the paragraph above are my speculation and conjecture)

note I am just saying, if it turns out that the judge rules lack of standing against HG I wonder, if they will revisit it, if they do have permission from Big west as the actual IP owner then its not infringement.
Personally while I don't expect it to happen I would find it very amusing.

[JadeHellbringer]

LRMs, free to a good home   8)

"Our missiles will blot out the sun."

"Then I will fight in the sha- OH GOD I FORGOT THEY'RE EXPLOSIVE RUN AWAAAAY!!!"

[wolfspider]

At this point I do not want the original art to come back, I want the nu classic art to be allowed!

[DOC_Agren]

The best way to describe the term Classic, in this sense, is a visual retcon of, at least, the original 3025 era, and specifically Unseen, Mechs. Along with the Locust, several of the Macross and Dougram-based Unseen have been visually redesigned. Those current versions can be found starting here by our new Art Lead, Anthony Scroggins. There are 15 line art images, plus an additional three non-Unseen Mechs, the Commando, Catapult, and Awesome, that have been given the Classic rework. Those Mechs are coming in the Game of Armored Combat Box set latter this year.

EDIT: Clarified the last sentence.
EDIT 2: Forgot about the Commando coming in the GoAC box...

Thank you

There was that hopeful moment during the 25th anniversary where CGL got permission from Big West/Studio Nue/Sunrise to use the original art again, and fell afoul of the sealed agreement between HG and FASA.  That was almost certainly the final nail in the coffin of trying to get the Unseen back.

(and standard disclaimer, despite my Beemer I have no knowledge of the company's operations at that level, any motivations or opinions in the paragraph above are my speculation and conjecture)

And I will be honest that whole issue annoyed me, because I never heard that the reason other then we promised something and never brought it forward.

[ColBosch]

I should note that 25 Years of Art and Fiction wasn't going to contain any new images of the Unseen, just reprinting old material. I have an unredacted version of the PDF, and aside from a couple of B&W drawings, most of the Unseen images were from the covers of books. There were ways they could've worked around Harmony Gold's BS, but the challenge came too late in the production process.

[klarg1]

I should note that 25 Years of Art and Fiction wasn't going to contain any new images of the Unseen, just reprinting old material. I have an unredacted version of the PDF, and aside from a couple of B&W drawings, most of the Unseen images were from the covers of books. There were ways they could've worked around Harmony Gold's BS, but the challenge came too late in the production process.

Yeah, that one was a real heart breaker. It would have been nice if the historical covers, etc., could have made the book.

Ah well. It happens.

[Trystan Thorne]

At this point I do not want the original art to come back, I want the nu classic art to be allowed!

Fully agree!  :thumbsup:

I still do like the original designs, but the new designs are simply better IMHO.
All I want is for the new designs to be allowed and the company which is not to be named can keep the old designs.

[ANS Kamas P81]

There was that hopeful moment during the 25th anniversary where CGL got permission from Big West/Studio Nue/Sunrise to use the original art again, and fell afoul of the sealed agreement between HG and FASA.

Wait seriously?  That's how that played out?

[Pat Payne]

There was that hopeful moment during the 25th anniversary where CGL got permission from Big West/Studio Nue/Sunrise to use the original art again, and fell afoul of the sealed agreement between HG and FASA.  That was almost certainly the final nail in the coffin of trying to get the Unseen back.

(and standard disclaimer, despite my Beemer I have no knowledge of the company's operations at that level, any motivations or opinions in the paragraph above are my speculation and conjecture)

IINM, it wasn't that that killed the non-Macross Unseen's chances of ever being seen again. From what I remember of forum scuttlebutt (for what it's worth) from the time was that everyone realized that while the ART was kosher to use, they might be opening a legal can of worms by making minis and other merch if Sunrise et. al decided to get persnikketty. And since Sunrise is The House That Gundam Built, and by that time had become a wholly-owned subsidiary of Bandai, that would have made the HG v. FASA suit look almost like an even fight by comparison...

[Lorcan Nagle]

Wait seriously?  That's how that played out?

That's my rusty memory of the explanation at the time, yeah.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

That's my rusty memory of the explanation at the time, yeah.

Wasn't there word of some grumbling from Topps as well?

[Lorcan Nagle]

Not that I recall, anyway.  Sarna has a transcript of Randall's statement on the alteration to the print edition, and it only mentions the sealed agreement

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/index.php?title=BattleTech:_25_Years_of_Art_%26_Fiction&_Fiction=

[ANS Kamas P81]

Shame we couldn't get a 30 Years with the Classics designs.  Maybe for 35.

Is it wrong to just want armies of Thunderbolts and Crusaders?

[Giovanni Blasini]

No. Both date back to early Battletech/Battledroids history as two of the most well-rounded general purpose heavy BattleMechs in the game. Nostalgia for them is well-placed.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Shame we couldn't get a 30 Years with the Classics designs.  Maybe for 35.

Is it wrong to just want armies of Thunderbolts and Crusaders?

Guess we know who the Terran Hegemony fan is.  :thumbsup:

[Feenix74]

The Thud has always been my favourite heavy fighting line mech. I always loved to Battletech art drawings of it.



The miniature was a bit of a disappointment to me (yes I know it is follows the Dougram art but that I why I find it disappointing).



However the new Classic Thud is just sexy and I am looking forward to getting my hands on it.

"Our missiles will blot out the sun."

"Then I will fight in the sha- OH GOD I FORGOT THEY'RE EXPLOSIVE RUN AWAAAAY!!!"

A man after my own heart :thumbsup: I need to find time to assemble and paint my collection of Longbow minis, my collection of unseen Archers, my Yeoman and my Viking.

I believe that HBS Battletech game with its stability damage and LRM indirect fire ("reach out and touch somebody" knock then on their backside and cause turn their pilot into jelly) is doing its part in winning over a bunch of converts to LRM-boats.

[Crimson Dawn]

I am also a big fan of that new Thunderbolt artwork.  I think it manages to keep the feel of the original without being near exactly the same (some other new artwork I could easily see somebody say it really is not that different from the original and sadly I happen to REALLY like some of those).

[klarg1]

Shame we couldn't get a 30 Years with the Classics designs.  Maybe for 35.

Perhaps, but I'm on board with the plan of never dealing with that can of worms again.

Is it wrong to just want armies of Thunderbolts and Crusaders?

No.

No it is not.

[The_Livewire]

I love the new ostscout, wasp and t-bolt, but I still have eyes for the Wolverine II over his brother. The Phoenix Wolverines looks like a diet Wolverine.

And am I the only one who liked the Phoenix Goliath?

[Luciora]

I'd rather use the Primitive mechs over the PP releases, for what's available.  The Primitive Rifleman is a beauty.

The PP Goliath is passable, but needs a turret.  Also not too fond of the head.

[Colt Ward]

Perhaps, but I'm on board with the plan of never dealing with that can of worms again.

He said Classics, not Unseen . . . so once all this HG flap is over with, that new art that makes up the Classics going into a book . . . could be interesting.

[Tymers Realm]

Now I might be mistaken, but didn't TRO: Succession Wars have the Dougram-inspired Classic art included? If it did, I would hope that when HG trolling goes to PGI's favor and everything else gets cleaned up, we could see a TRO: SW Revised that includes the Macross-inspired art, plus anything else that was done as well.

[Colt Ward]

Lol, it will either be 'Revised' or 'Upgraded' like they did with 3050, 3055, etc

[massey]

The new art is generally too blocky and bulky for me.  The mechs look fat.

My favorite version of the Thunderbolt (I guess it's a Thunderbolt, that's what I've always assumed anyway) comes from the art on page 74 of the Tactical Handbook.  It could probably be used completely unchanged.  It's not exactly the Dougram art, but it still looks very Thunderbolt-y.

[Cache]

I should note that 25 Years of Art and Fiction wasn't going to contain any new images of the Unseen, just reprinting old material. I have an unredacted version of the PDF, and aside from a couple of B&W drawings, most of the Unseen images were from the covers of books.

There was one new Unseen image in 25 Years for sure.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Now I might be mistaken, but didn't TRO: Succession Wars have the Dougram-inspired Classic art included? If it did, I would hope that when HG trolling goes to PGI's favor and everything else gets cleaned up, we could see a TRO: SW Revised that includes the Macross-inspired art, plus anything else that was done as well.

Yes, the Classic versions of Unseens that weren't related to Macross were included.

[klarg1]

Now I might be mistaken, but didn't TRO: Succession Wars have the Dougram-inspired Classic art included? If it did, I would hope that when HG trolling goes to PGI's favor and everything else gets cleaned up, we could see a TRO: SW Revised that includes the Macross-inspired art, plus anything else that was done as well.

That's an interesting notion.

The forces that produced TRO Succession Wars also produced kind of a multi-generational mishmash of art styles. I have no idea if it's economically viable, but an upgraded/revised version with some replacement art would, at the very least, be interesting.

[Sandslice]

IINM, it wasn't that that killed the non-Macross Unseen's chances of ever being seen again. From what I remember of forum scuttlebutt (for what it's worth) from the time was that everyone realized that while the ART was kosher to use, they might be opening a legal can of worms by making minis and other merch if Sunrise et. al decided to get persnikketty. And since Sunrise is The House That Gundam Built, and by that time had become a wholly-owned subsidiary of Bandai, that would have made the HG v. FASA suit look almost like an even fight by comparison...

The state of the Dougram unseen appears to be just fine; what we've gotten for those is acceptably referential, yet better due to the differences.  YMMV, but that's how I see it anyway.