3250 reference in Second Succession War

[Drewbacca]

I was just reading the intro to Second Succession War and there is a blurb that states the text was collected almost a century earlier. The intro itself is dated 3150. Or did I miss read something?

[Rorke]

As best I recall, that whole thing from 3250 isn't considered canon at the moment.

[Maelwys]

Why wouldn't it be? Its from a book that just came out last year. Its not from a ISP-like product. Infact, we have two 3250 references, both from last year, in Second Succession War and the Succession Wars TRO.

[SteelRaven]

Why wouldn't it be?

Because a good chunk of the forum freaked out bad enough that CGL still doesn't want to talk about it.

As for the into, the narration has always followed the current time line. Even updated TROs had a intro by Com Star explaining the update to 3050 report in 3062. The 2nd SW book is current Dark Age personalities look back at the historical events of the Second Succession War.

[Sartris]

Because a good chunk of the forum freaked out bad enough that CGL still doesn't want to talk about it.

As for the into, the narration has always followed the current time line. Even updated TROs had a intro by Com Star explaining the update to 3050 report in 3062. The 2nd SW book is current Dark Age personalities look back at the historical events of the Second Succession War.

yes. but also the Loremaster's blurb adjacent to that on page 11 makes it clear that while the analysis was written ca 3150, it's been recovered ca 3250. Like if you found an unpublished manuscript from 1918 and published it as-is with a forward to explain the context.

then there's also this little tidbit from TRO: Succession Wars



will this 3250 timeline ever get anything other than references like this? who knows. but that future is out there.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

At this point, I don't think such lines should be treated as anything more than Easter Eggs.

[Sartris]

just like the first drips out of a leaking dam are probably just condensation

[Cubby]

It's canon.

yes. but also the Loremaster's blurb adjacent to that on page 11 makes it clear that while the analysis was written ca 3150, it's been recovered ca 3250. Like if you found an unpublished manuscript from 1918 and published it as-is with a forward to explain the context.

Correct. The intent of the blurb is that it's a document first written in the 32nd Century, recovered and "published" in the 33rd century.

Because a good chunk of the forum freaked out bad enough that CGL still doesn't want to talk about it.

These two references were subsequent to that.

[Wrangler]

So the future stuff in the Second Succession War easter egg is non-canon?

[Cubby]

Everything in Second Succession War and TRO: Succession Wars is canon.

[Bosefius]

So the future stuff in the Second Succession War easter egg is non-canon?

No, it IS canon. Unless specifically stated otherwise anything published by CGL is canon.

So yes, we have snippets from 3250. What they represent is anyone's guess.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

And that's why I called them Easter Eggs.

[Empyrus]

"Easter eggs" are generally speaking understood to be fun references or trivia, or something equally simple but generally speaking not relevant. A cameo of a protagonist of another work could be an easter egg, or how BT has a merc unit named after the Lord of the Rings, but a framing device - as small as it is - most certainly isn't an easter egg but rather something more.

The 3250 stuff is evidently canon, even beyond TPTB explicitly saying so. They aren't limited to one book either: TRO Succession Wars framing device is from 3250. And it is both mystifying and revealing.

[Drewbacca]

I can see why some people would be afraid of yet another time jump but I think a lot of good could come out of it. I think it would be a great way tondo some consolidation of the fluff and the rules. If some cutting back of options was wanted that could be the way to go.

Also, one of the things I always liked about Battletech was the fact there was a huge bit of history that was only lightly touched on. Now that those eras have been fleshed out, which it was great to watch happen, the time jumo could give us another period of mystery and make some of the more advanced weapons something special again.

I think it could also help develope more character in the factions. Making them distinct but more than nations of hats.

[Nightlord01]

I can see why some people would be afraid of yet another time jump but I think a lot of good could come out of it. I think it would be a great way tondo some consolidation of the fluff and the rules. If some cutting back of options was wanted that could be the way to go.

Also, one of the things I always liked about Battletech was the fact there was a huge bit of history that was only lightly touched on. Now that those eras have been fleshed out, which it was great to watch happen, the time jumo could give us another period of mystery and make some of the more advanced weapons something special again.

I think it could also help develope more character in the factions. Making them distinct but more than nations of hats.

I like the time jumps, we skip all the boring peaceful stuff, and get to the meat of the wars quicker. Imagine if we got a sourcebook The machinations of the Free Worlds League in the Star League's Free Trade era"? That would be boring as hell, especially if there was one for every nation state.

[Drewbacca]

Actually, I would find that extremely interesting.

[Nightlord01]

Actually, I would find that extremely interesting.

What, an economics text book? That was a rephrased title from my economics text book in high school...

I guarantee you that you wouldn't find it interesting, it would likely cure any form of insomnia you suffered. And I say this as someone with an interest in economics.

[Drewbacca]

I have read some of the driest history texts ever written. I have an amazing tolerence for tedium in reading. Quick CGL, give me an analysis of Steiner-Marik trade aggreements and thier effects on insteller commodities markets in the pre-Stsr League era!

[Arkansas Warrior]

Even in the most peaceful eras of the Star League there was raiding.  It was just being done by “pirates”.  Given the relative force sizes in the era, some of those incidents were probably the size of the brushfire wars we have sourcebooks on.  I’d totally buy a book on Star League era “pirate” raiding.

[Nightlord01]

I have read some of the driest history texts ever written. I have an amazing tolerence for tedium in reading. Quick CGL, give me an analysis of Steiner-Marik trade aggreements and thier effects on insteller commodities markets in the pre-Stsr League era!

You need a shrink...

Even in the most peaceful eras of the Star League there was raiding.  It was just being done by “pirates”.  Given the relative force sizes in the era, some of those incidents were probably the size of the brushfire wars we have sourcebooks on.  I’d totally buy a book on Star League era “pirate” raiding.

Sure, if you go over the entire era, you might find enough for a book, but in reality it will all become swiftly more of the same. There were actually brush fire conflicts all over the place during the Cold War, few rated a mention unless one of the primary antagonists was involved somehow. Ultimately, Battletech is like that, you get the more interesting material, and skip the less interesting material, at least until the procrastination hits maximum, then you get historicals about it.

[Iracundus]

You need a shrink...

Someone called? 

I don't do remote consults.  However I can say that Drewbacca's interest in the economic and trade situation along the Steiner-Marik border is a valid albeit niche interest.  So long as such interests do not cause distress or dysfunction, then he is sane...probably.  I myself have interest in the internal economic organizations of the Successor States, which is why I found the House Handbooks interesting.  Sadly the House Liao one seemed to go into the least detail about that aspect for that House.  The economic dislocations (and any political ramifications) post-downing of the HPG network is also of interest to me.

[Sartris]

the catgirl apocalypse that would be ushered in by the foolish fool foolish enough to attempt to unpack the workings of inner sphere economics without completely breaking the universe (aka the world's most boring game of Operation) would go down as one of history's greatest atrocities.

i have an intense professional interest in cross-border societal transformations via material culture and exchange, but not in BattleTech.

[Cubby]

There were actually brush fire conflicts all over the place during the Cold War, few rated a mention unless one of the primary antagonists was involved somehow.

Which is the tricky part in developing "Brush Wars"-level material for BT. Some eras had a few legitimately interesting, extended campaigns, like the ones we detailed in the original "Brush Wars" and "Wars of the Republic Era." But basically every era also has an overarching caveat of "...but there was also consistent, low-level raiding"--which isn't intended as unpaved road for a future sourcebook, but as basis for players' Saturday afternoon game if they're interested in attaching it to canon.

So where do you draw the line between "significant enough for sourcebook treatment" and "it's just there to give players a hook for their game." It's not an easy question, especially since many (but not all, I know) of the historical gaps have already been caulked in.

But we're getting off topic. Those 3250 mentions in recent sourcebooks are canon, and are meant as unpaved road for possible future development.

[Iracundus]

the catgirl apocalypse that would be ushered in by the foolish fool foolish enough to attempt to unpack the workings of inner sphere economics without completely breaking the universe (aka the world's most boring game of Operation) would go down as one of history's greatest atrocities.

i have an intense professional interest in cross-border societal transformations via material culture and exchange, but not in BattleTech.

I did an analysis of the economic viability of shipping rice from Kaifeng to Sarna:

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=vpobojutv59frregd2sp0h9r54&topic=54402.0

AFAIK the catgirl apocalypse has not happened.  Clearly more can be done before we cross that line.

[marcussmythe]

Someone called? 

I don't do remote consults.  However I can say that Drewbacca's interest in the economic and trade situation along the Steiner-Marik border is a valid albeit niche interest.  So long as such interests do not cause distress or dysfunction, then he is sane...probably.  I myself have interest in the internal economic organizations of the Successor States, which is why I found the House Handbooks interesting.  Sadly the House Liao one seemed to go into the least detail about that aspect for that House.  The economic dislocations (and any political ramifications) post-downing of the HPG network is also of interest to me.

I have an unhealthy interest in Btech verse military procurement, including the rationale for what we see and what gains could be made (and at what cost!) by changing how star nations in Btech make those decisions.  I struggle with the need to create BTech AUs and other star nations in an attempt to work through alternate doctrines, military organizations, and purchasing/training decisions. 

I may have a problem.

[Drewbacca]

Sir, that was a thing of beauty.

[Iracundus]

I think you two should get together...and write a House Handbook. 

Or maybe a PhD thesis on Steiner-Marik economic relations and its effects on the military procurement and logistics systems of both nations.

[Drewbacca]

I think you two should get together...and write a House Handbook. 

Or maybe a PhD thesis on Steiner-Marik economic relations and its effects on the military procurement and logistics systems of both nations.

I meant your analysis of the rice shipments, but I would love to join you and marussmythe on a project. I am willing to do tribute the socio-political angle.

[Iracundus]

I meant your analysis of the rice shipments, but I would love to join you and marussmythe on a project. I am willing to do tribute the socio-political angle.

Thank you.  I admit though the Kaifeng-Sarna case was a special case since we have almost a closed system and a clearly given plot-critical food import dependency.  I do not think there is sufficient data on many other systems in the Btech universe to do any similar analysis. 

The universe is also interesting in that despite being in a state of interminable war and border raiding, cross-border trade still seems to continue to some degree. 

The socio-political angles have interested me more in recent years.  In particular the reformation of the FWL is of interest, given that its political structure seems to have been reformed to address some of the complaints about the old FWL.  It would be interesting to see what other changes or lack thereof there are in the new FWL.  That's why I personally would be interested in a House Handbook update for all the Houses.  I don't necessarily mean a book per House but a single book updating all Houses to the latest era.

[Drewbacca]

Something like "Handbook Inner Sphere: 3250."