BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat
BattleTech Game Systems => General BattleTech Discussion => Topic started by: beachhead1985 on 01 September 2018, 23:33:45
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With the excitement for Golden Century, I've been inspired to share my personal list of those units and equipment which have been mentioned once or twice in some source somewhere, but never fully stated-out or given art. I hope someday all of these will appear in print.
So here is my list, what is yours? Did I make any mistakes? What did I miss? Bring on the weird stuff!
General List
Air Car (probably two versions; Hover and VTOL) (MW1E)
Amarok---Wolf Design mentioned in Hammerhead Fluff in Rec Guide 5
Amphibious Assault Ship, Waverley---Has two sisterships Ellis and Cuthbert; can launch smaller craft, mentioned in Scorpion Jar
Aquatic Clan Exoskeleton; Elemental precursor
Archer---TRO 3025 notes *6* extant Archer variants in production at the time of printing, but only 4 are known in terms of stats or other fluff.
Arrow-IV Carrier---I swear we had a basic Arrow-IV Carrier with two A4s on an LRM/SRM Carrier chassis, but may just be the semi-modular version with the Ryuken-Yon from FM:DC described below.
Artos Mech---Children of kerensky Novel Errata'd into the Stormwolf
Athalwolf Mech---Children of kerensky Novel Errata'd into the Amarok
Atlantis Arcology---on atreus, 10kph cruising (TacOps)
Atlas AS8-K ---Rec Guide 7 War Crow Writeup, Ballistic-Reinforced Armour
Avalonmax-class freighters---Touring the Stars: Rigil Kentarus.
Awesome AWS-11H Triple HPPC from HB: HM
Baby Sylvester Dropship
Barghest Gray---Major Gray of 20th Aucturan, during the JF Incursion has the Barghests under her command modified by swapping the ER LLs for Clan Gauss Rifles.
Bauer Enterprises Heavy LAM which lost out to the Phoenix Hawk LAM
Black Eagle Mech Carrier---Variant of the Vehicle Carrier, no recordsheet.
Brookes Incorporated three-man digging/drilling machine (2940)
Bulker Sea-Going Dredge---Mentioned in Fortress of lies; capable of deploying mechs in amphibious assaults through the chutes for the spoil(Right term?) Dross?
Callisto battlearmour---Children of kerensky Novel
Cameroon (Ice Hellion --> forerunner of the Icestorm)
Carrack Carrier Variant---1st SW
Cherrypicker Agromech (later GDL book)
Chimera Prototype ASF
CI-117 APC---Cyclops Industries Product, HB:HS Cyclops Industries profile
Clan APC Sub
Clan Behemoth DS from TRO 3057---ER Lasers
Clinoa-Class Frigate (Wet Naval Escort for the Meabh)
Clipper-Class Cargo-carrying jumpship. Free Flight Limited Project/product
Coanda PSC---Skye Pleasure Craft Sport Racing WiGE (Techmanual)
Colt Conv Fighter (SRM)
Comitatus---JS (Freighter and Downgraded Cargo Variants)
Command Van (MW1E)
Crusader; SLDF Jumping version (the same as had the Hawk Missile Systems, but otherwise similar to the 3L)
Cyclops I---Wolf's Dragoon's space station; drydocks for jumpships and dropships, recharge batteries.
Cyclops Mastodon Hover Transport---"Armor and Infantry" Transport in development in 3067 with AP Weapons and "lighter-than-normal" Armour (Techmanual)
Daemon (SLDF Prototype)
Daemon---Norse Storm mech intended to replace the Spector in production.
Dagda Mobile Atolls
Danais (industrial) Mech Carrier---Blood will Tell
Delta---Early prototype Protomech used in action by the Smoke Jaguares in limited numbers, Mentioned on pg 26, Twilight of the Clans Campaign Book.
Deuce-and-a-Half (Davion "Half-tracked" version of the Bulldog or a similar vehicle)
Dropship Crawler (Mobile structure example)
DroST I---Implied Dropshuttle-bay-capable 5000t variant of the DroST
Durandel Destroyer---FM:FS
Dust Rat---Wolf's Dragoon's 6-wheeled recon car from Wolf Pack
Erinyes (WOB Super Weapon with Heavy Mass driver, based on a newgrange)
Evironmentally-specialized pre-Elemental BA (unknown if there were others at this time)
Explorer Jumpship; HPG and Sub-Cap weapons variants---found mentioned in House Marik Section of TRO3075 and in the MUL
Falcon Hovertank (CityTech 1E)
Falcon's Roost Orbital Complex
FDC APCs---Shadows of War, chapter 20, modified APCs used to coordinate artillery fire.
Fire Moth Infantry carrier
Fireship---Historical Reunification War, Taurian campaign, likely used and referenced elsewhere. Common cargo ships as suicide ram-ships, equipped with conventional or nuclear bombs.
Florence AmbulanceMech
flying airbase (Mobile structure example)
Fox (Sea Fox/Diamond Shark)
Fusion-Powered Aquamech (Mentioned in Ghost Wars TRO)
Gatekeeper Space Station
GHR-1X Ghost Hunter---failed, boondogles-esc prototype of the Grasshopper, possibly with flawed-CLPS/NSS or other stealth system
GHR-4R Grasshopper---From the BC story "A soldier's priviledge" and recontructed here https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=55136.msg1269114 from data in the story
GM MuckRaker Same as regular MuckRaker?
Goliath C
Graf-Tengu Air Transport from Objectives: DC
Grand Crusader II Omnimech---Abandoned in favour of the Celestial series.
Gray Monday BA (unidentified BA used in the Gray Monday attacks)
Griffin C
Ground Car (MW1E)
GS-54 Guard Quad 15-ton SecurityMech
Haepheastus-class station
Heavy Transport B1 (MW1E)
Heavy Weapons Carriers (HTP: Glengarry) LRM, SRM, AC Laser variants
Hector--- DS 1800, test bed for M2 Caspar Drone
Herdsman AgroMech mentioned in TRO: 3075.
Hermes and Hermes II---Version with vehicle flamers as an early holdover or a field modification, in order to come in line with fluff descriptions
Hermes II HER-2K 'Hermes III'---Mentioned advanced-tech predecessor of the HER-4K; 2x ERLL, Flamer, DHS
Hermes II---Illegal CT AC and Arm-Mounted AC Prototypes
Hessen Tank--CC, Mentioned in XTRO III, Korvin Precursor.
HK17 APC---Heir to the Dragon
hood class cruiser---Wet-Navy Cruiser mentioned in gameplay examples in Combat Equipment, Pg.97, 136
Horned Owl Precursor---Rec. Guide 1 an aquatic constructionmech
Hover Scout (RS V5: Vehicles)
Hover Weapons carriers (HWC-A from RS: Vehicles and MUL) LRM, SRM, RL, Rifle and AC Variants, 25T
Hughes-class mobile yard station
Hunchback IIC IS Refit---mentioned in TRO:3058R/U---IS Pilots normally refuse to pilot an Hunchback IIC unless or until one of the UAC/20s has been removed and replaced with armour and other equipment.
Hunchback HBK-2---Mentioned in Hunchback IIC Fluff as it's basis.
Hunter Wheeled Assault Tank; 20T, PPC, Vox 130 Fusion, 129.6kph---TCI Shadowhawk/Scorpion model kit
Hurricane Air/Hover car---Cyclops Industries product, HB:HS Cyclops Industries profile
Hussar MLs and Armour variant---TRO3050R. Drops the LL for 2xML and more armour. Possibly also an electronics system.
Ice Ships; ala the "Ryan Cartel"
Inferno---Davion Heavy Mech Mentioned in Rec Guide Warhammer Writeup, has one or more PPCs---included in Rec Guide 9
Jarvis Prototype mini-sub
Jeep (MW1E)
Jenny ASF trainer (Original House Stiener SB, under Nagelring entry)
Jet Sled (MW1E)
Jian-Class Dropship---Children of kerensky Novel
Jonah Mini-Sub (Space Version)
Jupiter Variant from Sword of Sedition, likely as stated here; https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=70258.0;topicseen (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=70258.0;topicseen) by @Templar87
Khirgiz; earlier version with SFE, possibly non-omni.
King-class 90-ton CargoMech
Konito mech---Children of kerensky Novel
Landing Craft---Smaller versions as mentioned in Scorpion Jar; versions for vehicles and much-smaller version for a Squad of regular or unarmoured infantry---probably a typo; if you can carry 4 BA; that's more like a platoon of unarmoured infantry.
Large and Small Mech Landing Craft---From Liberation of Terra II.
League DS (GDL Books)
Leander II Naval Support Vehicle---Hexareme TRO
Leopard, Union, Overlord and Excalibur Passenger/Cargo Conversions---Various novels, especially MWDA
Leopard-Combined Arms (Removes 2 ASF for some # of Infantry/Vees)
Liberty Space Plane
Light wheeled weapons carriers (Some attribution in fiction, particularly Decision at Thunder Rift) 20-40 tons, PPC, Laser, Missile, AC, Rifle, Thumper, RL
Lightning---Rec Guide 7 War Crow Writeup
Line Holder LH10---A New-Whatever design.
Longinus C---3150
LT-MOB-50 Rail Mobile Longtom
Lugger 80-ton battlefield salvage ’Mech
M1 Drone
M2 Drone
M6 Drone
M7 and M8 drone stations?
M10 Drone
M11 Drone
MkIV, V and VI Landing Craft---Implied and mentioned in Mk/Ares-Series Landing Craft Write-ups.
Magellan II---variant depicted in Technology of destruction; has a grav deck, likely a single docking collar and multiple shuttle bays
Manazuru Conventional Aircraft from Objectives: DC
Marauder/Marauder II ---Barber's Marauder IIs' custom ClanTech and advanced-tech versions
Marauder II Ballistic Weapons Variant---TRO 3050, takes of advantage of useless CASE in wrong torso.
MaxTech ICEMech---depicted on cover
MicroTitan - Ultralight digging Mech
Minsk (Ghost Bear)
Mobile HPG
Mobile Mining Refinery MMR (Support Vehicle, Drone/Automated Control optional, from the new beginner's set included fiction: Golden Rule)
Monza Light Cruise Liner---Federated-Boeing Interstellar (Techmanual)
Mosquito Radar Plane '52-Model (Techmanual)
NAIS Light Scout/SF Suit---Showcased on huntress. stealthy, infantry weapons and equipment, possibly squad support weapon. Uses thunderstroke, SRM and manpack PPC.
Nighthawk NTP-2P---House Stiener SB P144, said to be a downgrade model
NL-Series Gunboats---Mentioned in NL-42/45 write-ups; the NL-42 and then the -45 is noted as the latest in a series of NL-series gunboats designed and used by the Star League.
NETC Skyhook heavylift VTOL (Techmanual)
Nova Luthien---SMR-4, 3+ ERML?
Ogotai---First Diamond Shark ASF 2874
Okinawa---Balanced-armour first production version---TRO:3057
Omni-Corvis (DOH!)
One-Mech Transport Shuttles---Robinson-Class Transport (Warship) in TRO: 3075
Orion C---3150
Ostroc OstWar Arms Variant---Simply an Ostroc which visually matches the original art due to fitting of Earlier OstWar arms. May or may not have two arm-mounted SRM4s, vs 1 in the Torso.
Oscar atmospheric fighter, mentioned in the Kraken Unleashed entry of Mercenaries Supplemental Update, p.80
Overlord-2 (Converts 12 Mech Bays to 12 Heavy Vee Bays + Cargo)
Overlord-Command (Converts 4 Mech Bays into "Command Quarters")
Overlord-CV (Converts ?? Mech Bays to ?? ASF Bays)
Pallas---Long lost assault mech ~90-95t, mentioned as part of a Frankenmech in Redemption and Malice
Peregrine Warship
Piledriver Dropship variant---Children of kerensky Novel
Pit Viper---old ComStar sourcebook mentions it was one of two first mech models designed by Word of Bake engineers and produced at Gibson Federated BattleMechs factory (the other being Grand Crusader).
Planet Lifter-Support Variant---MUL-listed entry without stats or AS card, from TRO: Prototypes P.160, variants
PPC-Armed Locust---attributed in first printing of TRO 3025; a Davion-Variant that falls down when it fires.
Prime Mover (MW1E)
Project Trojan HDHB --- Stealth Dropship
Purifier Police---described in the Purifier Terra entry, but nowhere statted out.
Qasar---First Novacat ASF 2905
RanchHand AgroMech in “Callie’s Call”
redhawk gunship (mentioned in the Proliferation Cycle)
Reudel Conv Fighter (Hearts of Chaos)
Rhino early Clan Heavy Battle Armour (How did we miss this one!? Ah well; done now! :) )
Rifleman RFL-4DA1---Mentioned in Shrapnel #4; Field Refit, 2 ppcs, extra armor & heatsinks. Featured in the story "Bye Bye Brigade.
Rimrunner submarine, TRO:VA p. 172
RiotMech - (Appeared in MWDA Novel Fortress of Lies)
Rising Star---Low-production forerunner to the Legacy
Scout DS (GDL Books)
Semi-Modular Weapons Carriers---Variants on the classic LRM/SRM carriers that could take Arrow IV Missile Launchers in their weapons bays in a semi-modular fashion. Possible Omnivehicles? Mentioned in FM:DC as in use with the Ryuken-Yon.
Shadow-Griffon---Betrayal of Ideals, elsewhere? A Semi-regular frankenmech design
Skimmer (MW1E)
Slither---Another mech mentioned only in Redemption and Malice; Rim Worlds, so it seems.
Sovereign class cruiser (depicted in Tac Ops, Pg161, 245)---based on a 3rd-party model of a Sovremmny-class IRL destroyer
SpaceStream Smallcraft from Objectives: Lyran Alliance
Spector Christian---From Chaos Irregulars stories
Spectre Clan Survielance Plane---Look Down Radar Write-up
Spectre BA---Dragoons variant from Redemption Rites, Pgs 247, 250 and 252, 253. Has an AP Gauss vs the Light Gauss, but appears to keep everything else, with the possible exception of the mag clamps.
Speeder (MW1E)
St. Florian 90-ton
Star League Floating Islands---GM Skycity-3000, Lyran "Skycity" (TacOps)
StarCorps Muskrat-379---SupVee Aircraft, Amphibious, prop-driven, STOL, Water-tanker firefighting aircraft with look-down radar, hi-res cameras and Thermal. B-Model is optimized for passengers and camera equipment as a recreational parachuting aircraft (Techmanual)
StarCorps Smoke Ultralight Trike SupVee Aircraft (Techmanual)
Stealth Karnov
Storm Giant (Scylla Predecessor) (YES! Very excited to have this now!)
Submersible Aircraft carriers---Built for the SLDF by Sungdong-STX Shipbuilding, TRO: 3085 Supp. P18
super-freighter (Mobile structure example)
suvurov ICE tank
T-420 Hovercraft APC (Earthworks)---2 squads (12 pers), turreted laser, "Dreyfus" Support Machinegun
Tempest C---3150
Terraforming ships---may have a mechanical part in the process, may just be a designated transport.
Thug AC, At least 1 SRM-4, at least 1 PPC swapped for an autocannon. Bush Wars art. Makes sense as a SW-mod.
Thunderbolt TDR-12R---Rec Guide 6, ROTS Steath Mech, built on Tinkonov)
Tigershark fighter
Tigershrike ICE Hover
Trader-Class Primitive Jumpship---Fall Down Seven Times, get up eight, must have had Dropshuttle Bays. https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Trader_(JumpShip_class)
Trailblazer Exploration ship---Star League sourcebook, p. 60, Crew: 479, HPG equipped, Had three jump drives, all linked to a central control computer through a single circuit junction. Launched 2655 to map and survey unexplored star systems. Major Boondoggle bait right there.
Traveler-class aerodyne mail shuttle, in use in the FWL in 2466, predating the HPG. It's stated to have a crew capacity of 2-3, and can be flown by a single pilot.
Troglodyte; the true name of the SLDF tunnel/subterranean tank mentioned above---Seems it's in the Manta/Moray entry P18, TRO: 3085 Supplemental
Union-Combined Arms (Removes 2 ASF for some # of Infantry/Vees)
Union-CV (Converts 12 Mech Bays to 12 added ASF Bays)
UL-14 Bulldozer---TRO:VA(R) p. 34
Un-named Raven Alliance Omnimech---Mentioned in War Crow Fluff ---This turns out to be the Carrion Crow
Unnamed Strike Cruiser-class built by the Federated Suns---Periphery 1st ed, Pg.28
Una/Uma Jumpship---Explorer Corps
Valiant Regal sportster; Handbook: House Davion pg 175
Valkyrie (Royal version)---Mentioned in the Writeup for the Masauwu's notable pilot---Seems the name was a mistake?
Venturer WS Word of blake prototype destroyed over loyalty by sabotage
Vision Quest (Nova Cat)
Voss Conv Fighter (Hearts of Chaos)
Wakusei no Mochiagerumono Conventional Aircraft from Objectives: DC
Warlock---Golden Age Coyote Assault-class omni. no details beyond name and weightclass
Wheel Space Station of the Wheel System
Wheeled Scout (RS V5: Vehicles)
White Raven---Rec Guide 7 War Crow Writeup, Ferro-Lite Armour, mentioned in Divided We Fall as being a revamped design; faster than 4/6, 75t, removed pulse lasers
Woden Space Defence Station
Woodsman (Dual Arrow-IV)---Naga precursor
Yangtze Air Transport From Tengo Aerospace in Objectives: CC
'Zilla---Defiance-built demolition mech competitor, apparantly more mobile and thus likely uses a fusion engine.
Zoomer Elemental transport sled from Wolf Pack
Ye Olde Apocryphal designs from the Magazines that could be/need to be canonized/re-canonized
Achilles ACH-09S---Battletechnology 18
Alliance ALI-1A---Battletechnology 7
Ambassador MBSDR-1---StarDrive V1N1
Apollo APL-1J---StarDrive V1N1
Ariane ARN-E1---StarDate V3N3
Athena FDC Carrier---Battletechnology 8
Avalon Arms Support System---Battletechnology The Early Years
Avatar AVT-7A---Battletechnology 21
Badger-Class medium tank (obsolete basis for SP Sniper, using the same SLDI TRK/5(B) Chassis)---Battletechnology 0204
Bandicoot KGR-BCT---Battletechnology 19
Behemoth BMH-1T "belfry"---Battletechnology 11
Boomer BMR-100---Battletechnology 19
Brawler Mech---Battletechnology 13
BRN-1 Brian---Battletechnology 13
Bushido BSD-7K---Battletechnology 18
Cavalier Class Dropship---StarDate V3N3
Centurion Maximus CNT-9---Battletechnology 15
Cerberus CBR-6S ASF---Battletechnology 10
CGR-1A2 Charger-KH---Battletechnology 13
Chimera Ch-1M "perfected quad mech"---Battletechnology The Early Years
Clytemnestra CTP-005---Battletechnology 20
Cobra FrankenMech---Battletechnology The Lost Issues
Common Chassis vehicles 100, 75 ton tracked and 50 ton Hover---Battletechnology 19
Cyclone F-95---StarDate V3N3
Dervish DV-7S---Battletechnology 11
Dwarf Wombat KGY-WBT---Battletechnology 19
Fisher FSH-9R Recon/Spec-Ops carrier mech---Battletechnology The Early Years
Foxfire FXR-4R---StarDrive V1N1
Gadfly GDF-L4---StarDate V3N3
Goshawk VTOL Gunship---Battletechnology 9
Gremlin Armoured car---StarDate V3N4
Gryphon Scout Hover Tank---Battletechnology 19
Guardian---Battletechnology 13
Guppy Scout Submarine GU-2P---Battletechnology 12
Harrier Hovertank---Battletechnology 0202
Hedgehog---Also now attributed as the first Tripod in other sources. DO IT!
Huntress artillery mech (it`s got tracks, so I think TPTB would be into it for the MWDA connection there)---Battletechnology 14
Interloper Urban Scout URS-12A---Battletechnology 16
Iroquois Transport VTOL---Battletechnology 9
Javelin/Enforcer/Wolverine FrankenMech---Battletechnology The Early Years
Joey KGR-000---Battletechnology 19
Junior JNR-7P---StarDrive V1N1
Kangaroo KGR-00---Battletechnology 19
Ki-Rin VTOL Gunship---Battletechnology 9
Kookaburra KBA-01---Battletechnology 19
Leviathan LVN-1X "Belfry" A barely mobile wheeled tank---Battletechnology 11
Life-Saver Medivac VTOL---Battletechnology 9
Lynx LYN-5X (Basically looks like a shadowhawk variant)----Battletechnology 9
Malleus MLS-1A---Battletechnology 11
Mantis LAM---Battletechnology 15
Mauler Cititank---Battletechnology 16
Minnow Sub MNO-5W---Battletechnology 12
Mite MTE-12C---StarDate V3N6
Munin MN-1B LAM---Battletechnology 10
New Gladiator FrankenMech---Battletechnology The Lost Issues
Omega 137-A---Battletechnology 14
Original Titan(s)---Battletechnology 17, 11
Quicksilver Hoverscout---StarDate V3N4
Rampage RMP-1C---Battletechnology 16
Rattlesnake JR7-31P (Jenner laserboat variant)---Battletechnology 21
Rhino RHN-10 Melee Quad mech---Battletechnology 12
Rifleman-K (Drops the AC/5s for two more Large Lasers, an SRM4 and 7 heatsinks----Battletechnology 9
Roo Scout RO-2A---Battletechnology 14
Royalty-Class Royal Yacht (Armed Jumpship Amaris Star/Lorelei's Hope)---Battletechnology 20
Screaming Hawk---Battletechnology 7
Shadow Hawk Spy (Spec Ops Shadowhawk)---Battletechnology 21 ---Canonized as the SHD-5S
Siren SL-23---StarDate V3N3
Sky Ranger High Schout Drone Carrier---Battletechnology 19
Skyhook 30ton Transport VTOL---Battletechnology 9
Slowpoke SLP-2U---StarDrive V1N1
Sniper ammo carrier---Battletechnology 0204
SP Sniper---Battletechnology 0204
Stiletto STL-7D---StarDrive V1N1
Striga Conventional Fighter STC-13---Battletechnology 12
Striped Bandicoot KGY-BCS---Battletechnology 19
SubUrbanMech---Battletechnology 18
Sylph SYH-A5 Hovertank---Battletechnology The Early Years
Templar TMPL-1R---Battletechnology 15
Traverse TR-11A---StarDate V3N3
UrbanMech, Modified---Battletechnology 18
Ventilator VNT-1A---Battletechnology 15
Viking Hydrofoil---Battletechnology 0204
Wallaby KGR-WA---Battletechnology 19
Weasel WS3-L and Wild Weasel WS3-L2---Battletechnology 16
Whirlwind Hover Tank---Battletechnology 0202
Wildcat Aerotanker from Battletechnology 10
Wisp WS-2P---Battletechnology The Early Years
Wombat KGR-W0---Battletechnology 19
Wyvern VTOL Gunship---Battletechnology 9
Zaibatsu-Class Orbital manufacturing Facility---Battletechnology The Early Years
"MechWarrior" Equipment
RX-30 SpyEyes---"small gadgets used by governments and militaries throughout the Inner Sphere, especially by the various security agencies. They were little more than a camera and a transmitter mounted on six walking legs, a primitive, battery-powered robot small enough to hold in the palm of your hand. Too slow and too fragile to be efficient as scouts in battle, they were invaluable as silent, near-invisible sentries around a military base."---Something like this could be modeled as a creature, rather than have a new set of rules for small drones/robots.
TK Industries HG-90 Gyrojets Rifle
SLDF bullproof uniforms---As described in the fluff, these wore and felt like normal clothing, but could stop bullets and lasers. May have been statted in the ATOW companion, but I am away from my books.
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"Lost Destiny", specifically the one of the scenes involving Victor re-building the 10th Lyran Guards, mentions "several never before seen ´Mechs" being included in the new unit. One model explicitly named, at least in the German version (which is the only one I´ve read), is the "Bullova".
That name doesn´t show up in any of the other novels, or any of the sourcebooks I have, and I can´t find it on Sarna.net, either.
And in the third Camacho´s Caballeros book, in the battle scenes during the birthday parade, two ´Mechs mentioned among Lainie Shimazu´s company are (again, this is the German version) a "Killer" and a "Söldner" (literally, "mercenary"); again no other German publication mentions ´Mechs with those names, although "Killer" is the German name for the Slayer ASF. Although I´m not sure here these are really separate ´Mech models - most likely they are mistranslations of the Hitman and War Dog, respectively.
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Regarding the Bullova, this is a case, where the Heyne/FanPro translators tried to invent new names.
The Bullova is an Indian Axe and the idea was to continue the line of thought from Hatchetman(Tomahawk in german releases) with the Axeman. Only the later released TRO established Kriegsaxt as the german name.
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i would love to get more info on the Haepheastus-class station.
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With the release of rules for the Tripod 'Mechs, I don't see any reason why the Hedgehog shouldn't make an appearance in an upcoming TRO. Maybe in a sequel to TRO: Boondoggles. :)
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With the release of rules for the Tripod 'Mechs, I don't see any reason why the Hedgehog shouldn't make an appearance in an upcoming TRO. Maybe in a sequel to TRO: Boondoggles. :)
TRO: "What the heck were you thinking?"
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TRO: "What the heck were you thinking?"
XTRO: No
I want to see previously unstatted mechs. The other stuff I could take or leave
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The Battletechnology Huntress and Omega are non-canon designs.
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how about all of those captured mechs that were taken back to the home worlds and outfitted with clan tech?
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how about all of those captured mechs that were taken back to the home worlds and outfitted with clan tech?
You mean from Exodus Road? I have a feeling a lot of those are one-offs...but then again, I am broadly in favor of "C" refits in general.
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You mean from Exodus Road? I have a feeling a lot of those are one-offs...but then again, I am broadly in favor of "C" refits in general.
yes and any others that might have been pulled out of cashe. or what the mechs looked like before they Wolf's Dragoons ripped anything out.
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You mean from Exodus Road? I have a feeling a lot of those are one-offs...but then again, I am broadly in favor of "C" refits in general.
I was under the impression that they weren't being outfitted with Clantech, they were being put into service with their typical equipment.
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I was under the impression that they weren't being outfitted with Clantech, they were being put into service with their typical equipment.
I remember they were being taken back to the Homeworlds to be "studied" and that Benjamin Howell was using them to outfit the Galaxies on Huntress. But it has been a long time since I've read Exodus Road, so I can't remember if they were actually being refitted with Clantech or not. Given how dire the Jags material situation was getting (much as they were trying to keep it under wraps), I could see either way being justified.
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The Omega is in Jihad: Final Reckoning which surprised me (in a good way).
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Omega_(BattleMech) (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Omega_(BattleMech))
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The Omega is in Jihad: Final Reckoning which surprised me (in a good way).
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Omega_(BattleMech) (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Omega_(BattleMech))
Same name, different 'mech though. The Battletechnology Omega was only 100 tons IIRC.
Chris
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Regarding the Bullova, this is a case, where the Heyne/FanPro translators tried to invent new names.
The Bullova is an Indian Axe and the idea was to continue the line of thought from Hatchetman(Tomahawk in german releases) with the Axeman. Only the later released TRO established Kriegsaxt as the german name.
Eh... don´t remind me. Because they named Hatchetman "Tomahawk", they had to rename the Tomahawk ASF "Francesca", presumably after the Frankish throwing axe.
Are you sure about "Kriegsaxt", though? My copy of TRO 3052 calls it "Kriegsbeil"... although, now that I think about it, the Caballeros novel also turned it into "Axtschwinger".
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Are you sure about "Kriegsaxt", though? My copy of TRO 3052 calls it "Kriegsbeil"... although, now that I think about it, the Caballeros novel also turned it into "Axtschwinger".
Ah..you are right. Which makes FanPro's German names even more absurd since a Beil is actually a Hatchet ;)
If the Francesca renaming bothered you, just imagine what would have happened with TRO 3075's Tomahawk Mech...
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Ah..you are right. Which makes FanPro's German names even more absurd since a Beil is actually a Hatchet ;)
If the Francesca renaming bothered you, just imagine what would have happened with TRO 3075's Tomahawk Mech...
I think I´m glad I´ll never know what would have happened. A healthy mind can only take so much horror, you know? :o
The Francesca mostly bothered me because for years I had no idea that it was originally the Tomahawk, or what the name meant. Took me even longer to make the connection to the axe because I´d known that as "Franziska".
The whole renaming thing was all over the place, anyway - why leave the original names for the Valkyrie, Cicada and Centurion, for example?
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And why naming the Awesome Todesbote instead of, well, Awesome ;)
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And why naming the Awesome Todesbote instead of, well, Awesome ;)
I was trying to forget about that. :P
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And why naming the Awesome Todesbote instead of, well, Awesome ;)
:facepalm: :facepalm:
While some names are cool, the naming conventions lead to a lot of confussion. Also, some ebay sellers used the different names to sell "new mechs". Not cool.
Back to the topic, I'm eagerly awaiting to see the Cameroon and the Storm Giant. I would love to see a Rising Star (the failed father of the Legacy) in the TRO: Golden Century, AFAIK it was from the SL and an improved clan tech unit would be lovely.
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Cameroon (Ice Hellion --> forerunner of the Icestorm)
I can see it as 2 ML and a SRM-2, standard or ER with 3 tons of plating, same speed.
But this is basic extrapolation.
TT
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With the release of rules for the Tripod 'Mechs, I don't see any reason why the Hedgehog shouldn't make an appearance in an upcoming TRO. Maybe in a sequel to TRO: Boondoggles. :)
It be interesting if it does come out. It DID show up in name in Interstellar Operations as first Tripod Mech.
I kept thinking it could be a Primitive Tech version vs standard tech since so many things came out at same idea competing to be the norm.
Electric car came out same time as the gasoline powered car roughly same time before technology gaps start showing writing on wall for it.
I think chief problem right now is art work. That seems to be chief thing not see some these lost units. I'd love to see them.
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I can see it as 2 ML and a SRM-2, standard or ER with 3 tons of plating, same speed.
But this is basic extrapolation.
TT
Star league design, so probably not ERML's. And I suspect that you'd not see the armor go lighter. With three and a half tons of payload, I'd guess a medium laser, srm2 with ton of ammo, and either a small laser or a remote sensor dispenser. Fluffed as an attempt to replace the wasp.
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... turned it into "Axtschwinger".
That actually sounds pretty cool. I assume it means "Axe Swinger" in English.
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To my knowledge- and I'm known to be wrong- I can't think of having seen the Yamato-class battleship or Kaga-class carrier from the DCMS (although of course, neither was completed, so that makes sense).
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Part me is bit angry we never got chance see them in combat. Seriously, the anti-warship thing weary on me a player. Oh well.
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The Battletechnology Huntress and Omega are non-canon designs.
So far...TPTB have done A LOT of GREAT WORK! Canonizing stuff from non-Canon sources. Some of which I unapologetically love (like the Krugar Combat Car) and some not so much...(templar III from MW4), but I admire the effort and the fanservice!
To my knowledge- and I'm known to be wrong- I can't think of having seen the Yamato-class battleship or Kaga-class carrier from the DCMS (although of course, neither was completed, so that makes sense).
Yeah...What we really need there is an "As-designed" statblock.
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Allot of Battlecorp design have gotten a once over but a good number are ether redundant (friend fielded the Alliance, great mech but you can do the same thing in a King Crab) or make no sense without turning it into a completely different design (Huntress)
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And yet... the BattleTechnology 'Mechs hold a special place because the magazine was fully canonical back in the day. They were canon once. Randall Bills even expressly confirmed that in an official ruling during his (first) tenure as BT Line Developer. It was only on Herb Beas' watch that BattleTechnology was expressly relegated to apocryphal material. By that time, several of the 'Mechs (like the CGR-SB) had already been published in other canonical sources and thus remained canonical.
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I think I´m glad I´ll never know what would have happened. A healthy mind can only take so much horror, you know? :o
The Francesca mostly bothered me because for years I had no idea that it was originally the Tomahawk, or what the name meant. Took me even longer to make the connection to the axe because I´d known that as "Franziska".
The whole renaming thing was all over the place, anyway - why leave the original names for the Valkyrie, Cicada and Centurion, for example?
German novels had an obsession with translating EVERYTHING at the time. Even names, which took an already confusing issue, the different Clan Mech names for the Clans and the IS, and turned it up to 11! In the german novels that weren't from the perspective of a Clan character, you had to remember 4(!) different names for some Mechs, some of which made almost no sense, to correctly identify one. Only later did I realize which Mech was which.
I vividly remember being a fan of the Timberwolf/Mad Cat at the time, which I guess pretty much everyone who was introduced to BT via the Blood of Kerensky trilogy was, and wondering why I NEVER heard about one in the "Twilight of the Clans" series. But there were a variety of Mech names I didn't recognize, like the "Galeere"(english Galley)... which turned out to be the Man'o'War... and the "Katamaran"(Catamaran). Can you guess what Mech the KataMaran is?
(https://i.giphy.com/media/6OWIl75ibpuFO/giphy.webp)
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Lol. Now I will have to put a katamaran in front of my players just to see their puzzled faces. It will be battling a PhoenixJaveWorth.
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It worked well while there was still a manageable number of 'Mechs. But after TRO:3055 (at the latest) the FanPro approach of translating unit names (and by extension, even the alphanumericals: LCT-1V Locust became the HSR-1V Heuschreck, and that's an easy one) became a real problem.
Fun fact: The UM-R50 was apparently retroactively named by translating its alphanumeric designation back from the German TRO 3025 which had been the first to name this UrbanMech variant (German: ST-K50 Stadtkoloß). ::)
Ulisses officially abandoned the German names and switched to using the original names exclusively at some point, which was a smart decision but came way too late. (And they're not exactly pushing BattleTech these days.)
I like to believe that FanPro's German names for all kinds of stuff exist somewhere in Steiner space in-universe. 8)
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I vividly remember being a fan of the Timberwolf/Mad Cat at the time, which I guess pretty much everyone who was introduced to BT via the Blood of Kerensky trilogy was, and wondering why I NEVER heard about one in the "Twilight of the Clans" series. But there were a variety of Mech names I didn't recognize, like the "Galeere"(english Galley)... which turned out to be the Man'o'War... and the "Katamaran"(Catamaran). Can you guess what Mech the KataMar is?
In their defense, there is the rather long sequence in the novels where the warbook's ID jumps back and forth from Marauder to Catapult (and I was amused when I realized that in the english original, it would have literally jumped from MAD to CAT and back), so they kind of had to make something up from MAR and KAT.
With the man o'war, I think they took the name to be derived from the jellyfish-like creature, which is indeed called Galeere in german.
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Yeah, but Man O'War . . . was also what you called a warship at one point.
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That was what the cniderian takes its name from, in fact. Presumably the translator got confused because of how many of the Clan mechs use animal names.
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The one I am looking forward to is the Storm Giant, just because I always liked the Scylla . . . and I swear, now that the mini has been built (thanks faithless) after 15 years (ugh, feel old) I AM going to get it on the table- even with that JJ BV penalty!
Another would be the early Clan warships . . . I remember the speculation on their setup and I was in the Falcons made the Peregrine pew-pew to the detriment of everything else which was why it was retired- too many problems keeping it in service compared to the old SL ships.
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That was what the cniderian takes its name from, in fact. Presumably the translator got confused because of how many of the Clan mechs use animal names.
It could have been from a horse (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_o%27_War) or a wall of sonic fury (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manowar)....
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The german IS "Galeere" name for the Gargoyle/Man O'War was definitely because of Man O'War(or Man-of-War) being the expression the british Royal Navy used as a catch-all name for all ships that were commonly used in the line of battle during the age of sail. So they used a name for a warship as the german name. The problem is that they used a name describing a much older oar and sail driven warship type that was very uncommon in the age of sail. A better name would have been "Fregatte"(Frigate), because the larger frigates were actually called a Man O'War/Man-of-war.
And the Katamaran example also makes sense... it still sounds ridiculous as a Mech name to a native german speaker. Oh and fyi, there is a town named Markat in Albania... xp
And as others have pointed out, Galeere and Katamaran actually were two of the least bad examples! :D
Funny thing, the translation compulsion only extended to english names. Some of the Clan Omni's that the Smoke Jaguars used the most during the Invasion - Mist Lynx/Koshi, Stormcrow/Ryoken, Warhawk/Masakari and Dire Wolf/Daishi - got off easy. Their codenames were japanese instead of english, and weren't changed at all!
Oh, and the name "Stadtkoloß" for the Urbanmech was either nothing short of ludicrous OR a meme worthy in-joke for the Urbie... because Stadtkoloß would translate to "Colossus/Giant/Juggernaut of the City"! ;D
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So how did they translate the Verfolger . . . or was that after the period?
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Did it get weirder whenever a story used German in it for the talk about the Lyran military?
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So how did they translate the Verfolger . . . or was that after the period?
What about the Hetzer?
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German names were just left as is, since they weren't in english.
And no, it didn't get any weirder when the story talked about the Lyran military in german.
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anyone remember the wild cat tanker?
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And yet... the BattleTechnology 'Mechs hold a special place because the magazine was fully canonical back in the day. They were canon once. Randall Bills even expressly confirmed that in an official ruling during his (first) tenure as BT Line Developer. It was only on Herb Beas' watch that BattleTechnology was expressly relegated to apocryphal material. By that time, several of the 'Mechs (like the CGR-SB) had already been published in other canonical sources and thus remained canonical.
IIRC, those are cases where either the original design was done while Battletechnology was a FASA publication, or where the original author could be contacted. I don't belive that Brett has yet overturned Herb's stance on the issue.
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In "Wolf Pack", there´s a light hover vehicle designed to carry a point of elementals, that´s being used in the Dragoon civil war. Did we ever get stats for that? Or even a name?
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In "Wolf Pack", there´s a light hover vehicle designed to carry a point of elementals, that´s being used in the Dragoon civil war. Did we ever get stats for that? Or even a name?
I remember them calling it a "Zoomer". No stats though.
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anyone remember the wild cat tanker?
Yes! And we need a canon AeroTanker, don't we? Something that works in space, i mean. Added!
In "Wolf Pack", there´s a light hover vehicle designed to carry a point of elementals, that´s being used in the Dragoon civil war. Did we ever get stats for that? Or even a name?
I am pretty certain the Eldingar is supposed to be a hommage or a best-we-can-do for that design, but in specific; no. I will add that as well, as the "Zoomer"
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In "Wolf Pack", there´s a light hover vehicle designed to carry a point of elementals, that´s being used in the Dragoon civil war. Did we ever get stats for that? Or even a name?
This could be retconed as the Bandit C, non-omni hover. Stats are just like the Bandit omnitank, except it does offer a 5 ton Infantry bay unlike it's IS counterpart of 4 tons. And 50 tons is considered " light " for transport purposes. Zoomer might be a Tank name or an earlier clan class...
TT
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Actually, no it couldn't. The Zoomer was described as completely armorless and weaponless. Basically a frame, engine and skirt with room for a driver and five Elementals
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Skimmer then? Just make it a non-Omni?
After dropping the Flamer and SL, along with the .5 Armor of 8, and possible XLing the Engine, could be? Someone want to check the math, you'd need about 3 more tons.
TT
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Here is another one, but I am at a loss for a name!
An old battlecorps story featured a Clan (JF?) Scientist running a test pilot through his paces in a heavily modified protomech...I think an Erinyes or Siren variant.
Anyone else recall other details?
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IIRC, those are cases where either the original design was done while Battletechnology was a FASA publication, or where the original author could be contacted. I don't belive that Brett has yet overturned Herb's stance on the issue.
Heh. Just assume he will.
- Herb
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Did the original proto in the Twilight of the Clans series ever get a name and stats?
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Harpy.
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Skimmer then? Just make it a non-Omni?
Actually, the easiest way to do it would probably be to make it an omnivehicle, so you could make a tiny vehicle that could still have a point of elementals ride it (at least that's how I did it when I made my attempt. A three ton omnivehicle with no pod space).
When Wolf Pack was originally written, a point of infantry only took up a ton of cargo space. Which would have made it easier to pull off.
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Actually, the easiest way to do it would probably be to make it an omnivehicle, so you could make a tiny vehicle that could still have a point of elementals ride it (at least that's how I did it when I made my attempt. A three ton omnivehicle with no pod space).
When Wolf Pack was originally written, a point of infantry only took up a ton of cargo space. Which would have made it easier to pull off.
A point of Battle Armour Infantry toon up only one ton?
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Up until Master Rules was released, yes. The revisions section in the back of the book mentions that they changed it because one ton for a point didn't make any sense.
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Well, I'll be dipped!
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just got myself sorted on the BONA-Venture-R issue.
So there is of course the BONAventure-class. I do not think there is a Venture or Ventura-class, but WOB did have a prototype Venture-r-class destroyed by Regulans over Loyalty in 3076.
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Anyone familiar with a reference for a Lyran mobile structure from Invading Clans or some such?
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No stats were ever given for the ComStar-produced BattleCobra, were we?
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No stats were ever given for the ComStar-produced BattleCobra, were we?
E-CAT35RS203A RS: 3058 Unabridged - Clan 'Mechs, Star League Units, and Battle Armor
I can only find it on DriveThruRPG.
No stat blocks, but it's more than enough to work back from. I think it's got 17.5 tons of pod space, but I didn't verify it with MML or anything.
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E-CAT35RS203A RS: 3058 Unabridged - Clan 'Mechs, Star League Units, and Battle Armor
I can only find it on DriveThruRPG.
No stat blocks, but it's more than enough to work back from. I think it's got 17.5 tons of pod space, but I didn't verify it with MML or anything.
Awesome! Thank you!
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E-CAT35RS203A RS: 3058 Unabridged - Clan 'Mechs, Star League Units, and Battle Armor
I can only find it on DriveThruRPG.
No stat blocks, but it's more than enough to work back from. I think it's got 17.5 tons of pod space, but I didn't verify it with MML or anything.
17.5 is correct. there's a fixed DHS in each torso. after ES/FF crits, there are five crits free in each arm, three in the right torso, and two in the center torso
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I want official art for that one.
No stats were ever given for the ComStar-produced BattleCobra, were we?
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Its out I think
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No, the Inner Sphere Battle Cobra uses the same picture as the Clan Battle Cobra.
The thing I find most interesting about it from a thematic sense is how ammo dependent most of the variants are, given that there's only two or three Clan Battle Cobra configurations that mount any ammo-dependent weapons at all.
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I want official art for that one.
If you want something a little different, there's always the original image from Invading Clans. It's less streamlined than the TRO:3058 image. Kind of like a Rakshasa vs. Mad Cat comparison.
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I do have 2 battle cobras in my collection. One for clan use and 1 for IS use. Just don't see Comstar duplicating the Battle Cobra to the exact clan standards and looks considering designs like the
Sunder, and the walking weapons bay that is the Raptor 🙂
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If you want something a little different, there's always the original image from Invading Clans. It's less streamlined than the TRO:3058 image. Kind of like a Rakshasa vs. Mad Cat comparison.
That's my head cannon, using the Invading Clans angular one as the IS model in the style of the Black Hawk KU, and what resulted in the David White ComStar Battle Cobra commission that hangs above my desktop at home.
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German names were just left as is, since they weren't in english.
And no, it didn't get any weirder when the story talked about the Lyran military in german.
And then we had issues like the Paladin. Which was the German name for the Quickdraw ... I'm just happy this stupidity ended before the real Paladin got published ...
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Hedgehog
You can find some information about this at
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hedgehog
and at
http://www.geocities.ws/jymset/SD_Hedgehog.html
and
http://www.webring.org/l/rd?ring=jello316;id=3;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Egeocities%2Ews%2Fjymset%2F
if you're interested, but most of it will probably be superseded or retconned out of existence when CGL finally publish some canon stats.
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You can find some information about this at
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hedgehog
and at
http://www.geocities.ws/jymset/SD_Hedgehog.html
and
http://www.webring.org/l/rd?ring=jello316;id=3;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Egeocities%2Ews%2Fjymset%2F
if you're interested, but most of it will probably be superseded or retconned out of existence when CGL finally publish some canon stats.
I am very interested! Things like this are why I made this thread; to draw attention to all the great stuff we having floating around that could easily be shoe-horned into the back of a new, even-passingly-appropriate product.
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if you're interested, but most of it will probably be superseded or retconned out of existence when CGL finally publish some canon stats.
As it stands, the old Hedgehog stats don't actually work with the Tripod rules
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One of the entries in the Primitives series of XTROs (the Hurricane conventional fighter, I think) mentions the first true Aerospace Fighter, the Chimera, designed by Martinson Armaments. I don't think that's ever been statted out, and it doesn't appear on the MUL.
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As it stands, the old Hedgehog stats don't actually work with the Tripod rules
Should be easy conversion though.
I'll see what i can do and post it to fan designs section.
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One of the entries in the Primitives series of XTROs (the Hurricane conventional fighter, I think) mentions the first true Aerospace Fighter, the Chimera, designed by Martinson Armaments. I don't think that's ever been statted out, and it doesn't appear on the MUL.
Nice catch! Added!
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Found:
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hurricane (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hurricane)
TT
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I thought the Hurricane stats were disappointing. I always thought they CGL or whoever could came up with primitive (easily obsoleted) guided missiles for air-to-air combat. Who in world fires Rockets at aircraft in air-to-air combat?? That's like setting off fireworks hoping to catch passing military jet.
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Typical line is that ECM/countermeasures had taken such a leap that it rendered things like a AIM-9 series Sidewinder or AIM-120 to be hit or miss.
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There were quite a few fighters from the '50s that carried rockets as a primary armament for air-to-air combat, like versions of the F-86, F-89, Some YaKs (IIRC YaK-25 maybe?) etc. The M3e.262 carried rockets for use against bombers, and some German fighters carried mortar launchers for the same purpose. Granted these were intended for use against heavy bombers, but the concept is not unknown.
Damon.
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Typical line is that ECM/countermeasures had taken such a leap that it rendered things like a AIM-9 series Sidewinder or AIM-120 to be hit or miss.
I know. I've heard that line before. I kinda think it's weak one that never been supported by any canon source. I wish they would because even very weak laser would AT LEAST make you feel like your in the future vs 1950s revisited military technology. Enough my below hardness on it.
Wasn't there Submarines mentioned in the TRO:3085 (yes I got no books on me right now) that were mentioned in fluff, but not in entry?
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TRO 3085 Supplemental has stats for two types of subs.
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You talking about the Blakist Wyrms that were on Terra?
If so they were in Hotspots by what I can find.
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There were quite a few fighters from the '50s that carried rockets as a primary armament for air-to-air combat, like versions of the F-86, F-89, Some YaKs (IIRC YaK-25 maybe?) etc. The M3e.262 carried rockets for use against bombers, and some German fighters carried mortar launchers for the same purpose. Granted these were intended for use against heavy bombers, but the concept is not unknown.
Damon.
Those were all intended not just for use against heavy bombers, but for use against large formations of heavy bombers. The mortar launchers in particular were hideously inaccurate, with entire squadrons firing them en masse at the bomber boxes in hopes of scoring a few hits - in fact if one were to try and convert them to BT use, the best way would probably as one-shot artillery weapons capable of targetting air hexes, complete with scattering and all. Plus, the Me-262´s rocket and the mortar launchers were external payloads, not hard-mounted weapons, and the aircraft carrying them had to be escorted themselves because of how slow and clumsy those payloads made them.
(Humorous side note: I just noticed I wrote "one-shit" instead of "one-shot", which for the mortar launcher is not all that inaccurate)
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I know. I've heard that line before. I kinda think it's weak one that never been supported by any canon source.
Era Report 2750 specifically gives the inherent ECM of combat units as the reason TAG has to be star league tech instead of just a basic spotting laser. Even the basic electronic warfare systems of a succession wars era battlemech are able to defeat a spotting laser using decoy beams, and it requires a star league level computer control system to adjust the beam fast enough (as well as sending targeting data back to the missile fast enough) in order to counter it.
Though in the case of air to air missiles, I'd suspect ECM wouldn't be a concern as much as improved armor.
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So... How does the Recon Camera work again? ???
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http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Recon_Camera (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Recon_Camera)
TT
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So... How does the Recon Camera work again? ???
In what context?
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Oh right... the references to TAG were only for spotting for indirect fire, and explicitly nothing else that TAG does. I was half remembering the phrase "as if it were TAG".
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I just noticed there are a couple of other Aerospace Fighter designs mentioned that we've not seen yet - Strategic Operations p 16-17 lists the Ogotai as the first Clan Diamond Shark aerospace fighter, launched in 2874, and the Qasar as the first Clan Nova Cat aerospace fighter, launched in 2905.
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I just noticed there are a couple of other Aerospace Fighter designs mentioned that we've not seen yet - Strategic Operations p 16-17 lists the Ogotai as the first Clan Diamond Shark aerospace fighter, launched in 2874, and the Qasar as the first Clan Nova Cat aerospace fighter, launched in 2905.
Very good!
Thank you!
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Historical: Liberation of Terra, Vol. 1, page 153 sidebar
M-2: The second SD Drone used the 1,800 ton Hector hull to test larger scale deployments. After several friendly-fire episodes involving the M-2 drones, the Hegemony scrapped it in favor of focusing on the larger M-3.
I haven't been able to find anything about the Hector, but I haven't been looking real hard.
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Historical: Liberation of Terra, Vol. 1, page 153 sidebar
I haven't been able to find anything about the Hector, but I haven't been looking real hard.
Naver heard of that one either; so added! We always need more dropships
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Hmm, 1800t assault dropship . . . so maybe it was a SL design that the smaller Avenger was built off?
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Heard but never seen Gausszilla an Anihilator ? With 5 Vlan Gauss Rifles . Was it ever fielded in Canon ? Would it count as never seen in the Inner Sphere ?
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It was in Historicals: Operation Klondike. It wasn't seen in the Inner Sphere but we've got stats for it.
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Heard but never seen Gausszilla an Anihilator ? With 5 Vlan Gauss Rifles . Was it ever fielded in Canon ? Would it count as never seen in the Inner Sphere ?
Yes it lives, can be found here:
(http://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/e/e7/Record_Sheets_Operation_Klondike.jpg?timestamp=20100509073932)
Hmm, 1800t assault dropship . . . so maybe it was a SL design that the smaller Avenger was built off?
I haven't been able to find anything about the Hector, but I haven't been looking real hard.
Closest I can find is a slightly heavier Saturn... by a third weight. Shouldn't be too hard to make...
TT
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Hmm, 1800t assault dropship . . . so maybe it was a SL design that the smaller Avenger was built off?
I wouldn't just assume an assault ship. Rather; use as a testbed seems to militate against it in many ways. I'd expect a cheaper transport or even Civilian Freighter, which would also give the benefit of camouflage.
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Freighter (2995) version of the Comitatus and the Cargo downgraded (3002) version of the Comitatus class jumpship.
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I thought the Hurricane stats were disappointing. I always thought they CGL or whoever could came up with primitive (easily obsoleted) guided missiles for air-to-air combat. Who in world fires Rockets at aircraft in air-to-air combat?? That's like setting off fireworks hoping to catch passing military jet.
for years now I have fluffed a RL10 on my personal designs as the STAKE ADAT (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Defense_Anti-Tank_System) missiles, so I can buy them being used on a fighter if you look at them in this light.
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Freighter (2995) version of the Comitatus and the Cargo downgraded (3002) version of the Comitatus class jumpship.
Noted! Always need more Jumpers
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Has anyone meantioned the DEST / LOKI Steath Karnov ? Presumably XL engine and Vehicle Steath Armor but nothing truly specified . The 3039 TRO meantions it but not stated out . Or like the TRO says anyone can customize the unit just the manfacturer no longer will support it . So no point in stating it out as every varient is a little different .
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Has anyone meantioned the DEST / LOKI Steath Karnov ? Presumably XL engine and Vehicle Steath Armor but nothing truly specified . The 3039 TRO meantions it but not stated out . Or like the TRO says anyone can customize the unit just the manfacturer no longer will support it . So no point in stating it out as every varient is a little different .
I am away from my books for two weeks, but I was sure that was in the 3058 recordsheets. Anyone who can confirm?
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Guessing it’s this one. No bv so it probably doesn’t have a sheet
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4435/karnov-ur-transport-stealth
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So stealth Karnov seems to qualify as never seen. I find it appropriate .
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Isn't there bunch of stuff from the TRO:VA (and revised) that haven't been shown, their mentioned in fluff as one vehicle represents entire type vehicle?
Example: In the fuff for the Meabh Heavy Cruiser (Naval Support Vehicle), the cruisers were made to replace SLDF's waterbound naval ships. It mentions it was escorted by Cliona-class frigates. One particular Lyran ship has three these ships designed to escort the cruiser during the Succession Wars. They were all lost of course, but that's never-seen.
In the fluff of first print out of the Dark Age Novels, Ghost Wars. There was mini-TRO, mentioned in the fluff not show was mention of a Fusion powered AquaMech. This is could also be counted as never-seen (likely forgotten)
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Isn't there bunch of stuff from the TRO:VA (and revised) that haven't been shown, their mentioned in fluff as one vehicle represents entire type vehicle?
Example: In the fuff for the Meabh Heavy Cruiser (Naval Support Vehicle), the cruisers were made to replace SLDF's waterbound naval ships. It mentions it was escorted by Cliona-class frigates. One particular Lyran ship has three these ships designed to escort the cruiser during the Succession Wars. They were all lost of course, but that's never-seen.
In the fluff of first print out of the Dark Age Novels, Ghost Wars. There was mini-TRO, mentioned in the fluff not show was mention of a Fusion powered AquaMech. This is could also be counted as never-seen (likely forgotten)
I shall take all of those and add the Stealth Karnov.
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If we're counting variants of units that haven't received record sheets, than all the variant units from TRO: Prototypes and all the upgrades in TRO 3150 also count.
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Gear wise, we still don't have mechanics for headhunters. We know they require Artemis IV and are SRMs, but that's it. Do they qualify?
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In the fluff of first print out of the Dark Age Novels, Ghost Wars. There was mini-TRO, mentioned in the fluff not show was mention of a Fusion powered AquaMech. This is could also be counted as never-seen (likely forgotten)
This could be the Spindrift or a derivative
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This could be the Spindrift or a derivative
Possible. It does pre-date it though publish wise vs when it was created. I'd have dig out my old book see if can see it says anything else in it about it.
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Gear wise, we still don't have mechanics for headhunters. We know they require Artemis IV and are SRMs, but that's it. Do they qualify?
They *would* but I was sure we had them somewhere, right with L-K Missiles.
ER2750 mentioned them, but I am away from books, so can't check for stats. The old TRO: Apocryphal had them as missiles that rolled on the punch table with some other drawback.
This could be the Spindrift or a derivative
Very well could be.
If we're counting variants of units that haven't received record sheets, than all the variant units from TRO: Prototypes and all the upgrades in TRO 3150 also count.
Specifically units with no art/stats or detailed mentions. Like if TPTB were writing a period book and needed some units to toss in the back; "Ah! Here are some!" vs coming up with new ideas. Like; "This book could use a dropship; what about we stat out, art and fluff the League-Class?"
Someone else had a thread which listed all the one-off customs used by the big personalities now that we've started giving so many characters in the books custom rides. I'm wary of that, because it wildly expands the list; But I'll still do it, because I think that ought to be a PDF product. If people will help me make the list.
But if we have stats and art and maybe fluff for a design, but the record sheet is MIA; that is a separate and possibly larger issue related back to the record sheet books/PDFs themselves. If the last thing a unit needs is an official record sheet though; I think they need them. I think all the Blue Naval ships still lack them IIRC.
Take the Hood-Class; one of our very earliest examples of a wet-navy warship. We have stats; but no fluff or art. But NONE of the Naval SupVees have Record sheets to my knowledge. None of them having record sheets is a bigger issue than no fluff and art for one of the more obscure unit-types in the game, even if I love them.
If you have a list of those Prototypes and Upgrades units; I will add those under a separate heading for "just need record sheets".
Honestly, this is a bugbear of mine; but in short it's a symptom of investing in books; paper and PDF which have the construction rules and record sheets in them vs investing in computer programs with a database of canon material and rules players can work from. A final fix is to stop making record sheet books and deadtree editions of the construction rules and instead make a new Heavy Metal series that could be updated with errata as needed. But until TPTB do that, we; as fans can create and curate a list like this of units that might be included in future publications, which already exist in whole or in a tiny part in the universe.
We all know how hard these guys work and they are mostly volunteer so whatever help we can give them is to the good.
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I think the Mark VII Landing Craft might qualify for your list. The rules are so tangled up at the moment, it can't perform its intended function (deliver a tank into combat), and I'm not sure it ever got a current record sheet.
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Thought I saw the Mark VII but it was a combat attack smallcraft not cargo hauler ? Smallcraft are the single most underutilized unit in the game.
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Thought I saw the Mark VII but it was a combat attack smallcraft not cargo hauler ? Smallcraft are the single most underutilized unit in the game.
originally it was a 100 ton "lighter/cargo shuttle"
pg 70 and 71 in dropships and jumpships.
100 tons
2 crew
65 tons cargo
weapons 1 lrm 5
2 medium lasers
2 small lasers
1 ton lrm ammo
14.5 tons armor
then there were variants that upgunned it and or replaced its 200 engine with a 300.
the point was that the original mk 7 was essentially a 100 ton small craft/fighter with VTOL capability that could deploy up to a 65 ton tank anywhere it could land, such as Rommel and Patton tanks.
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3057 made it into a 200 ton small craft with VTOL capability and 67 or so tons of cargo. 3057R apparently dropped the cargo to something under 40 and removed the VTOL gear (I don't have that book, and Sarna cites both books, but says 67 tons ???). Strat Ops put in rules for Aerodyne Small Craft and Drop Ships to take off and land vertically (which is otherwise straight up banned). The problem is those rules involve automatic damage on the Capital scale (to the tune of 8+2d6), meaning Small Craft that try it are virtually guaranteed to be destroyed unless the margin of success is ridiculously high despite steep penalties to the Control Roll. Cray proposed redesigning it as a fighter (which at least don't take quite so steep penalties, nor automatic damage), but a recent answer to a rules question pointed out vehicle bays aren't allowed on fighters at all. Sorry for the side track...
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not a big deal, but IMO the biggest issue with one of the rules changes that got the mk7 was making it so ALL smallcraft had to be built as long duration vehicles like dropships, sop they HAVE to have quarters ...
if instead there was an option that basically said that a small craft had essentially fighter (~24hr) life support UNLESS they mounted quarters ... then it would allow things like the mk7 which was originally intended as a short duration "landing craft/shuttle" so you could load up the cargo, fly it to the destination (typically in a few hours or less) and drop it off and then go on to the next job.
also it had a fluffed "cold thrust" vtol system so it wouldn't take (or cause) damage when taking off and landing in VTOL mode
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More from the TRO: VA and other sources
Mining Mechs
- Three-Man Digging Machine - this is the super heavy Mech which is suppose to have spurred development of the Aries.
- GM MuckRaker
- MicroTitan - Ultralight digging Mech
FireMechs
CargoMechs
- 80-ton Lugger battlefield salvage ’Mech
- 90-ton King-class CargoMech
- 15-ton GS-54 Guard Quad SecurityMech
- RiotMech - (Appeared in MWDA Novel Fortress of Lies)
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Guardiandashi, even allowing them to use Infantry Bay quarters would work, but that was errata'd out too.
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More from the TRO: VA and other sources
Mining Mechs
- Three-Man Digging Machine - this is the super heavy Mech which is suppose to have spurred development of the Aries.
- GM MuckRaker
- MicroTitan - Ultralight digging Mech
FireMechs
CargoMechs
- 80-ton Lugger battlefield salvage ’Mech
- 90-ton King-class CargoMech
- 15-ton GS-54 Guard Quad SecurityMech
- RiotMech - (Appeared in MWDA Novel Fortress of Lies)
Thanks Wrangler; added most of those. But the TMDM is an old favourite and I already had that one.
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Guardiandashi, even allowing them to use Infantry Bay quarters would work, but that was errata'd out too.
Indeed, I think that everyone who is very into Naval or Aerospace has their own take on the MkVII. I know I do. But the rules have been futzed with so much, it's hard to pin down. It's actually worse than the mobile longtom revisions.
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the Seventh Kommando's dropship. I can not remember were, but one of the books had them do a mission and then blast off planet in there own dropships.
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the Seventh Kommando's dropship. I can not remember were, but one of the books had them do a mission and then blast off planet in there own dropships.
Per the Wolf Dragoon's SB the 7th Kommando had 5 Fury class dropships assigned to them.
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Per the Wolf Dragoon's SB the 7th Kommando had 5 Fury class dropships assigned to them.
At one point Wolf's Dragoons were mentioned to possess several Scout (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Scout_(DropShip_class))-class DropShips. That class is never mentioned anywhere else save the MUL. I think he meant these.
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Must been a typo. Makes more sense to me to have JumpShips for independent troops like the 7th Kommandos
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Must been a typo. Makes more sense to me to have JumpShips for independent troops like the 7th Kommandos
Not from the context. And like I wrote, the MUL does confirm the existence of a Scout class of DropShips.
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Not from the context. And like I wrote, the MUL does confirm the existence of a Scout class of DropShips.
Until somebody writes otherwise, and then the MUL will change to reflect whatever is written, or not, about it then.
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Well, the Scout DropShip is just how Malvina uses them....
xp
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At one point Wolf's Dragoons were mentioned to possess several Scout (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Scout_(DropShip_class))-class DropShips. That class is never mentioned anywhere else save the MUL. I think he meant these.
I think those are mentioned with the League-Class in one of the early GDL books as part of the Kuritan invasion force.
Also; we need more Drop ships.
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Got a reminder when I saw the thread today:
Jumping Atlas Mini.
Are there any canon variants that support it?
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the AS7-K3 jumps
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Got a reminder when I saw the thread today:
Jumping Atlas Mini.
Are there any canon variants that support it?
•AS7-K3 A modification of the K2 built in 3083, the K3 removed the two Streak SRM-6 launchers and replaced them with three jump jets and a Streak SRM-4 launcher, giving the AS7-K3 incredible maneuverability.
Found here: Record Sheets: MechWarrior Dark Age I, p. 74 and Record Sheets: 3085 Unabridged - The Cutting Edge, p. 156
TT
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Got a reminder when I saw the thread today:
Jumping Atlas Mini.
Are there any canon variants that support it?
I believe the mini in question featured a Jump Pack
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And it's definitely not an AS7-K3, due to retaining the Atlas's original pumpkin head and shoulders.
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How so?
Atlas-K3 is a modified K2, which is a Lyran mod of Kurita's K ( 1 ).
K4 is a Dark Age mech, which would have need of a Phoenix facelift, but a K ( 1 ) is just a Kurita XL version of the original classic D. K2 was a revamp of a Gauss and ER Large with 2 SSRM6's added a Guardian. K3 dropped the Streaks and added the jets instead.
Again, how so MLO4H?
TT
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Because the K2, 3, and 4 are the Dark Age Atlas, as shown in TRO 3085. The Jumping Atlas mini is the classic AS7-D/AS7-K appearance.
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I don't think so...
TT
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The jumping Atlas is whichever variant you want it to be.
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Atlas:
(http://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/thumb/0/09/3050U_Atlas.jpg/953px-8yjrjsgew5stplu5c6xa9ji463jd5gd.png?timestamp=20110118185147)
Dark Age Atlas:
(http://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/8/85/AS7-K2_Atlas.jpg?timestamp=20101217001615)
Jumping Atlas:
(https://resources.nobleknight.com/Catalog/Images/900/900/0/1/0/IWMATLASLTD-12.jpg)
That's pretty obviously the old style Atlas, not the Dark Age style.
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An atlas with a jump pack feels like that scene in Jurassic park where the raptors figure out how to open doors
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If it's not been mentioned: Sarna's article on the Look-Down Radar describes it as installed on a Clan "Spectre-class" reconnaissance plane. That reference is not found on the cited page of TacOps and I think it would be the only mention of a Clan conventional aircraft.
Is this canon or an error in the wiki?
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I believe the spectre comes from the last book of the Jade Phoenix trilogy. Kael Pershaw was tooling around in one over Tukayyid.
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It's true. Last book of the Jade Phoenix trilogy does mentioned Pershaw was using spy plane. I forgot about it.
For some reason, i think i asked it on the old forums. I think Writers had said clans could have modded a Mosquito IX plane become Spectre used by the clans.
This is me going off something i remembered.
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•AS7-K3 A modification of the K2 built in 3083, the K3 removed the two Streak SRM-6 launchers and replaced them with three jump jets and a Streak SRM-4 launcher, giving the AS7-K3 incredible maneuverability.
Found here: Record Sheets: MechWarrior Dark Age I, p. 74 and Record Sheets: 3085 Unabridged - The Cutting Edge, p. 156
TT
I'll buy that for a Dollar.
It's true. Last book of the Jade Phoenix trilogy does mentioned Pershaw was using spy plane. I forgot about it.
For some reason, i think i asked it on the old forums. I think Writers had said clans could have modded a Mosquito IX plane become Spectre used by the clans.
This is me going off something i remembered.
The Mosquito is definitely noted as being used by the Clans. I don't know about it being called the spectre though?
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Well, the Scout DropShip is just how Malvina uses them....
xp
Any jumpship can be a dropship... once.
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With the excitement for Golden Century, I've been inspired to share my personal list of those units and equipment which have been mentioned once or twice in some source somewhere, but never fully stated-out or given art. I hope someday all of these will appear in print.
Combat vehicles in novel Decision at Thunder Rift. Wheeled PPC Carrier anyone? My personal take on it (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=14279) along with bunch of variants.
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Combat vehicles in novel Decision at Thunder Rift.
HVWC (unspecified hovercraft weapon carrier, capable of carrying a range of support weapons including machine guns, missile launchers, lasers and PPCs)
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/PPC_Heavy_Weapons_Carrier (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/PPC_Heavy_Weapons_Carrier)
And don't forget the Jeep either: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Jeep (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Jeep).
TT
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Combat vehicles in novel Decision at Thunder Rift. Wheeled PPC Carrier anyone? My personal take on it (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=14279) along with bunch of variants.
I had thought all the examples mentioned in DaTR were hover?
HVWC (unspecified hovercraft weapon carrier, capable of carrying a range of support weapons including machine guns, missile launchers, lasers and PPCs)
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/PPC_Heavy_Weapons_Carrier (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/PPC_Heavy_Weapons_Carrier)
And don't forget the Jeep either: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Jeep (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Jeep).
TT
So the jeep and other MW1 vehicles, we just need modern rules for. no?
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Record sheets Volume Five...
Need to get all these into modern stats, meaning we have the Skimmer and Jet Sled but no current modern stats.
TT
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I had thought all the examples mentioned in DaTR were hover?
No; one is 6-wheeled vehicle with PPC on top of it. Grayson used it to shoot a 'Mech (Wasp or Locust) on the leg. Also 'Mech recovery vehicle is wheeled. Do I need to look up page numbers for that?
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In decision at thunder rift there are wheeled PPC carriers. It is in the city battle. Grayson first takes on a wasp mounted Don a hover with a HMG. Then 3 wheeled PPC carriers appear. They are ICE powered, since they take a while to recharge after each shot. Those are the ones used to corner Lori Kalmar.
It is the best battle scene in the book by far since it looks realistic in the universe.
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Also 'Mech recovery vehicle is wheeled. Do I need to look up page numbers for that?
Both the BM Recovery Vehicle (50) and Heavy BM Recovery Vehicle (70) have TRO entries.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/BattleMech_Recovery_Vehicle
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Could the 3 Wheelers be the Infantry Mobile PPC found under the download on front page of this forum.... Infantry TechManual v.3?
TT
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Could the 3 Wheelers be the Infantry Mobile PPC found under the download on front page of this forum.... Infantry TechManual v.3?
I don't understand. Link plz.
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Particle Cannon (Support)* IS / Clan (D) Medium / Support (E) 3 1.58 1,800.0 kg / 25 kg (150) 5
* The Support Particle Cannon is considered to be a vehicle in itself, with an effective MP of 2 (Tracked); it may thus only be employed by Motorized/Mechanized (Tracked) infantry platoons.
While it states Tracked, this could be either a wheeled version, locally produced.
Revised Infantry Equipment tables for TechManual (Revised 9 December 2017)
Errata, mainpage...
TT
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Errata, mainpage...
Got it. Your comment about the forum confused me.
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Sorry...
It might be because the original specs where not given and later were.
Consider how we just had a only three types of infantry to play with and when 3085 came out, not only did we have MORE 3025 era infantry than before, we had upgrades as well...
2 MP is faster than Foot infantry....
TT
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Just to clarify things, when mentioned in the book, 3 wheeler PPC carriers could be a Tacked Trike mounting the said weapon.
Which is why I suggested the Infantry version. It moves 2 a turn,, but y'all missing the point... It was a City Battle, meaning it was most likely moving 3 hexes a turn! Light enough to be carried, but still fast enough to get a +1 modifier. Since Infantry still get their 360 firing bonuses...
TT
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Just to clarify things, when mentioned in the book, 3 wheeler PPC carriers could be a Tacked Trike mounting the said weapon.
Which is why I suggested the Infantry version. It moves 2 a turn,, but y'all missing the point... It was a City Battle, meaning it was most likely moving 3 hexes a turn! Light enough to be carried, but still fast enough to get a +1 modifier. Since Infantry still get their 360 firing bonuses...
TT
Geeze guys what are we into though for a small ICE vehicle mounting a PPC? That's 17 tons of weapon and heat sinks right there, plus...2(?) more for the power amp? Not that we wouldn't see that in the BTU; but we're into a rather large vehicle at that stage, no?
Seems we do need more variants of the HVWC though and I checked: I have *various* different rules interpretations for the MW1 vehicles under modern rules, but none are canon.
PROBLEM and serious one at that: Are TPTB precluded from canonizing a fan design, even if it's the only way to do it, within a narrow ruleset?
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Geeze guys what are we into though for a small ICE vehicle mounting a PPC? That's 17 tons of weapon and heat sinks right there, plus...2(?) more for the power amp? Not that we wouldn't see that in the BTU; but we're into a rather large vehicle at that stage, no?
At 2/3 I can get it onto a 30-ton wheeled vee with 4.5t armor. Small enough to have a crew of 2 under the rules. 3/5 requires 35 tons and has room for a machine gun. That's not fast, but fast enough for an urban ambush wagon. And cost is under a half-mil so I can see a vee like that being expendible enough to issue them to infantry units as StuG-type assault guns.
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I think the PPC carriers in the city battle was supposed to carry support PPCs. IIRC they shoot Lori's Locust a couple of times with them? Locusts don't get shot multiple times by full-sized PPCs and keep fighting... ;)
When I set up that scenario a long time ago I cheated and used MLs fluffed as "small PPCs".
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I think the PPC carriers in the city battle was supposed to carry support PPCs. IIRC they shoot Lori's Locust a couple of times with them? Locusts don't get shot multiple times by full-sized PPCs and keep fighting... ;)
When I set up that scenario a long time ago I cheated and used MLs fluffed as "small PPCs".
That is possible.
I always wondered why we never got the support PPC as a half-ton class 'Mech weapon (which I suppose is tangentially on-topic, being a thing in-universe but never seen). Say, 2 heat, 2 damage, 2/5/7 range. Wouldn't exactly make the medium laser obsolete, but it'd be a great secondary for light 'Mechs. A Locust with 4 S-PPCs in place of the MGs and ammo would be a hoot.
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Seems a little too good compared to the ER Small laser.
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Seems a little too good compared to the ER Small laser.
I blame that on the IS ERSL being a bad joke.
Aside from the heat, those are the stats of the Battle Armor version of the S-PPC (which weighs less than the BA ERSL).
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Well, the BA ER Small is a bad joke. ;)
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With a 7 range, I think it would obsolete the vanilla Small Laser.
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Aye, there's the rub.
Except I think the changes to infantry damage rules already took care of that. In the bad old days, where PBI were the one-legged man in the ass-kicking contest, a SL could take out half a squad in one go and didn't require you to waste a shot of a more powerful weapon.
Now it's kind of...worthless compared to all the other half-ton fillers out there--even a single point of armor on a near-maxed design is worth more than a small laser.
It is weird, though, that S-PPCs haven't appeared as a 'Mech weapon even in a nerfed form, considering they weren't even LosTech during the 3rd SW.
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They even had burst fire back before the TW reset. In the current rule set, they drop the two-turn recharge time for Support PPCs (the one turn recharge for the Semi-Portable can be accounted for by the 2:1 ratio of AToW to TW turns). That said, it would actually be a 3/6/9, 2 damage weapon when converting (and 2/4/6, 1 damage for the Semi-Portable). The rest of the weight would have to be the remote weapon station optics and servos. My guess would be that TPTB would fluff the (cooling?) systems necessary to get the firing cycle down to 1/TW turn would crank the tonnage up to 1, and the Medium Laser straight wins that competition, even if it is more heat. That said, I could totally go for a 2/4/6 1 damage energy weapon on a 'mech in 3025.
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Not to threadjack this into a "what if" weapon thread, but the near-absence of grenade launchers has always bothered me as well. The VGL makes a good smoke dispenser and competitor to A-pods, but where is the equivalent of a Mk 19? Even infantry rarely seem to use them. I can't think off the top of my head of a mention of them being used anywhere in the fiction, despite some of the rather obvious shortcomings of SRMs as an infantry anti-materiel weapon.
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I think the "Grenade Launcher (Heavy)" is the Mark 19 analog, though the Clan "Grenade Launcher (Heavy Auto)" might also qualify. They both fire 5-round bursts. The IS version uses class C ordnance, while the Clan uses class D. I head cannon class C as 40mm grenades, and class D as 60mm.
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There is a Light PPC in the Support rules from the AToWC...
Maybe we should see about those?
TT
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... but where is the equivalent of a Mk 19?
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Automatic_Grenade_Launcher
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Grenade_Launcher_(Battle_Armor)
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Heavy_Grenade_Launcher
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Hello
Where are the units that use prototype equipment that would have seen use during the Reunification War, Operation Klondike, 4th Succession War, Golden Century and War of 3039? I would have thought that there'd be a lot of units using prototype equipment, either as new construction or by refit kits, but I've only seen a few and half of those are canon customs.
Also where are the units that use weapons and equipment that have come out recently but have been available for ages in canon, Rocket Launchers, Rifle Cannons, Mortars and such? Not necessarily downgrades, although they'd be nice to have too, but just alternatively armed units.
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I would have loved to have seen more XTRO 1945 units be counted as legal canon units, it expanded. Famously, However because it was free product there no sequels. I would have loved to have seen more, like naval units stuff like with that stuff. Or even 1960s style stuff with guided missile finally explained.
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Hello
Where are the units that use prototype equipment that would have seen use during the Reunification War, Operation Klondike, 4th Succession War, Golden Century and War of 3039? I would have thought that there'd be a lot of units using prototype equipment, either as new construction or by refit kits, but I've only seen a few and half of those are canon customs.
you can assume such things happened and Starterbook: Sword and Dragon gives us a glimpse of what the process might have looked like for deploying prototypes of new weapons. The lack of canon units mounting them is more of an artifact of the real-life development of the game. The Helm Core rollout retcon gives us Star League tech during the 3030s and 3040s, but since few CGL products have outlined that period, we don't have a canon record of variants reflecting those changes - all we have are the original TRO 3050 refits that retain their timestamps in the late 3040s and early 3050s. A series of testbed variants could theoretically exist from the 3030s and early 3040s, but they're currently left to our imaginations.
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I think the PPC carriers in the city battle was supposed to carry support PPCs. IIRC they shoot Lori's Locust a couple of times with them? Locusts don't get shot multiple times by full-sized PPCs and keep fighting... ;)
I think so too.
I think the PPC Carrier in HTP: Glengarry is a different beast and what we see in DaTR is more like a jeep with an S-PPC instead of an MG.
I ran the numbers myself and what I came up with had a fixed PPC, 5/8 movement and I think like 2.5t of armour in a 40 tonner; which is just the kind of nonsense I like in BT and the sort of unit I love to throw at players in my kind of games. But Wow! Talk about the tail wagging the dog! As a manufacturer or a commander, geeze; do I want to get in on that? Wow.
I also found the Weapons Carrier-A, which is a Hover 25t ICE vehicle with a large laser, which the MUL says has an LRM variant which we have never seen. Which is perfect for this list.
Looking at the PPC carrier from HTP:G, I am reminded of the numbers which Cray or some other gifted member ran on the old forums which basically established that even with the most optimistic projections for ICE fuel in the BTU, on a pure economics level; Fusion Engines paid for themselves rapidly, even in the darkest days of lostech.
More germane to the topic though; I think we could put up LRM and AC hover weapons carriers and some further light, wheeled weapons carriers would be welcome as well, no?
Not to threadjack this into a "what if" weapon thread, but the near-absence of grenade launchers has always bothered me as well. The VGL makes a good smoke dispenser and competitor to A-pods, but where is the equivalent of a Mk 19? Even infantry rarely seem to use them. I can't think off the top of my head of a mention of them being used anywhere in the fiction, despite some of the rather obvious shortcomings of SRMs as an infantry anti-materiel weapon.
There is a lot of confusion in infantry weapons between art and stats as presented in different versions of different games set in the BTU. One of my back-burner projects is a rationalized infantry weapons list that provides stats for every version of the game, as well as my own rationalized, consistent stats, re-balanced for better play. In addition; I'd add a number of weapons to fill out some notable gaps.
In terms of a Mk-19-style weapon; while there is an automatic grenade launcher in several incarnations, in terms of a weapon with the range, punch and crew requirements of the Mk-19 and similar weapons; no, we never see them. Battletech likes to step-down punch, as it steps up capacity and rate of fire and this was carried over to the infantry weapons.
For my money, all of the BA Mortars are really heavy grenade launchers and the grenade launchers are more like weak, small cannons.
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I think so too.
I think the PPC Carrier in HTP: Glengarry is a different beast and what we see in DaTR is more like a jeep with an S-PPC instead of an MG.
I ran the numbers myself and what I came up with had a fixed PPC, 5/8 movement and I think like 2.5t of armour in a 40 tonner; which is just the kind of nonsense I like in BT and the sort of unit I love to throw at players in my kind of games. But Wow! Talk about the tail wagging the dog! As a manufacturer or a commander, geeze; do I want to get in on that? Wow.
I also found the Weapons Carrier-A, which is a Hover 25t ICE vehicle with a large laser, which the MUL says has an LRM variant which we have never seen. Which is perfect for this list.
Looking at the PPC carrier from HTP:G, I am reminded of the numbers which Cray or some other gifted member ran on the old forums which basically established that even with the most optimistic projections for ICE fuel in the BTU, on a pure economics level; Fusion Engines paid for themselves rapidly, even in the darkest days of lostech.
I think that thing was the forerunner to the LTV-4 Hover Tank (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/LTV-4_Hover_Tank) they published in XTRO: Primitives Volume 2 in 2012.
I Believe the same tank was published in earlier ye olde Record Sheets Volume Five: Vehicles.
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bigger SRM rack, slower speed. also a cargo bay?
(http://puu.sh/Clbdw/50a680ee6d.png)
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bigger SRM rack, slower speed. also a cargo bay?
(http://puu.sh/Clbdw/50a680ee6d.png)
The fluff mentions in the XTRO Primitives that countless variants were made since it was introduced what was regarded to be first standard tech (Succession War Tech) vehicle in the Battletech universe.
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The fluff mentions in the XTRO Primitives that countless variants were made since it was introduced what was regarded to be first standard tech (Succession War Tech) vehicle in the Battletech universe.
And some folks want us to stat out every one of them. :P
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And some folks want us to stat out every one of them. :P
Great, by when can we expect them? ;)
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The fluff mentions in the XTRO Primitives that countless variants were made since it was introduced what was regarded to be first standard tech (Succession War Tech) vehicle in the Battletech universe.
Sure, just pointing out the ltv-4 is not identical to the hover tank
And some folks want us to stat out every one of them. :P
The clamoring for canonization of every vehicle down to bicycles ever mentioned juxtaposed with the equally fervent angst about ReTcOnS makes me very tired
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Great, by when can we expect them? ;)
In just a few countless days.
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I thought the 20% minimum engine tonnage rule predated that book...
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the 20% engine tonnage rule goes back to at least CityTech 1st ed (which I think was the first place vehicle construction showed up?)
you're right, it should be a115 rated engine (7/11 350 rated - 235 SF), not a 65 (300 rated - 235 SF). Also it can't be an ICE engine or you'd need 11 tons of heat sinks and amplifiers
curiously, even if you take the illegal engine at face value, it's still 2.3 tons overweight. now that I ran the numbers in MML, I see why the designed the LTV-4 they way they did in Primitives II
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Those all look way bigger than what I imagined to be the wheeled vehicles that Grayson directs in his hunt for the light mechs. I imagined them to be something akin to a hummer, really.
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Looking at the PPC carrier from HTP:G, I am reminded of the numbers which Cray or some other gifted member ran on the old forums which basically established that even with the most optimistic projections for ICE fuel in the BTU, on a pure economics level; Fusion Engines paid for themselves rapidly, even in the darkest days of lostech.
I once made an experiment with HeavyMetal Vee program: I took Bulldog Medium Tank, changed engine to Fusion, halved the tonnage to 30, and result was perfectly legit 30 ton light tank of tech level 1 with cost of some 300k C-Bills if I recall correctly. Default Bulldog goes over 1M C-Bills ::)
Problem is fusion engines are at times close to lostech and supply can't keep up with demand. Fusion engines were stripped out from some of the vehicles and installed into 'Mechs, and that turned Schrek PPC carriers to AC/5 carriers with ICE engines. Until Lyran Commonwealth started doing something about it, and results were Patton, Drillson, Hunter, Savannah Master, and that was just starters.
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Those all look way bigger than what I imagined to be the wheeled vehicles that Grayson directs in his hunt for the light mechs. I imagined them to be something akin to a hummer, really.
So what you are saying is . . . the Ibex?
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Ibex_RV (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Ibex_RV)
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Kind of. Maybe slightly larger. Like a military grade pickup. ICE powered. The PPC were powered by capacitors in the battle, having a recharge time of around 10 seconds between shots.
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So you understand what you are asking . . . the hummer? Matches up with that Ibex . . . weight-wise, so does the old Duece & Half truck which I think they modeled the Pitbull or Bulldog truck off of . . .
Anyway, Ibex nails it pretty close but since it was out in '49 it would have been some other similar model.
Or it could have been a stripped down Kruger?
(http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Kruger)
Could have it fluffed as having Support PPCs instead of MLs.
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If there was a recharge time, it's very likely a support or semi-portable PPC. They both have recharge requirements between shots.
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I think that thing was the forerunner to the LTV-4 Hover Tank (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/LTV-4_Hover_Tank) they published in XTRO: Primitives Volume 2 in 2012.
I Believe the same tank was published in earlier ye olde Record Sheets Volume Five: Vehicles.
According to sarna; that's a rock-solid confirm from the lead devs.And some folks want us to stat out every one of them. :P
The idea I'm going for here is that, at heart; this game has thousands of legal designs in it. It's a little overwhelming, even for guys like me who love that stuff.
Be we also have dozens of designs that are mentioned once and never written-up with legal rules. Some of these, we could really use. Some of them; we should probably have written up, somewhere.
There is a trend (a good one; I think) to toss a could new record sheets or a TRO or two in the back of most products. But a lot of the time what we get is basically just another mech that doesn't add much besides flavour to that sourcebook, when really, probably; what we could use there is another Dervish or whatever in the RAT. My thinking is; perhaps arrogantly:
"I enjoy this aspect of the game, and I think perhaps TPTB don't maintain a running tally of stuff mentioned once in a sourcebook or novel and never given stats or fluff. Maybe I can take my interest, pool it with the energy and knowledge of the playerbase and make something that might prove useful in filling out the back-entries of those kind of sourcebooks with something more interesting and useful."
I don't want to stat everything down to bicycles, I just think that sometimes the basics and bedrock get missed.
Back to the subject at hand; looking over it, I think we can add most of the MW1 vehicles to the list, plus maybe the Falcon Hovertank and Wheeled Scout from Citytech, as none of those have been given fluff or modern stats to my knowledge.
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Must be noted: I have seen some really great work done by a fan, I cannot recall (forum member though) with doing up some or all of the MW1E vehicles in ATOW/SupVee rules.
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I would have loved to have seen more XTRO 1945 units be counted as legal canon units, it expanded. Famously, However because it was free product there no sequels. I would have loved to have seen more, like naval units stuff like with that stuff. Or even 1960s style stuff with guided missile finally explained.
I would love more too and there's no reason the rules couldn't be included in a purchase product. And it wouldn't necessarily be a repeat since we didn't get all the weapons we could have or naval units.
you can assume such things happened and Starterbook: Sword and Dragon gives us a glimpse of what the process might have looked like for deploying prototypes of new weapons. The lack of canon units mounting them is more of an artifact of the real-life development of the game. The Helm Core rollout retcon gives us Star League tech during the 3030s and 3040s, but since few CGL products have outlined that period, we don't have a canon record of variants reflecting those changes - all we have are the original TRO 3050 refits that retain their timestamps in the late 3040s and early 3050s. A series of testbed variants could theoretically exist from the 3030s and early 3040s, but they're currently left to our imaginations.
I'd have no problem with using my imagination except that custom units are nearly universally banned by players from their tables. That leaves a lot of tech that was used in canon that we can't use.
I don't need every possible variant stated out. That'd take away from using our imaginations. Still a TRO filled with prototype units for each of those eras would be real nice. They also might answer questions like, how the Booby Traps were mounted in Hatchetman?
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Hearts of Chaos included some ducted fan-powered conventional aircraft armed with heat-seeking missiles. Cassie's love interest in the novel was a pilot of one.
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I don't need every possible variant stated out. That'd take away from using our imaginations. Still a TRO filled with prototype units for each of those eras would be real nice.
I recall something about XTRO Succession Wars with GRF-2N which dates back all the way to a scenario in book Black Widow Company. Is it still available somewhere? I recall buying it, but I may have left it on my laptop or somewhere... ::)
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The super griffin and wasp were updated under current construction rules (as opposed to the battledroids standard that put no restrictions on JJ placement)
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I recall something about XTRO Succession Wars with GRF-2N which dates back all the way to a scenario in book Black Widow Company. Is it still available somewhere? I recall buying it, but I may have left it on my laptop or somewhere... ::)
XTRO Succession Wars. They were also one of a kind prototypes. Not massed produced variants tested during a war. Not that I wouldn't have a problem if they were. ;)
The super griffin and wasp were updated under current construction rules (as opposed to the battledroids standard that put no restrictions on JJ placement)
They also got rid of the single critical slot Double Strength Heat Sinks for the same Prototype Double Heat Sinks seen during the Reunification War. :'(
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Hearts of Chaos included some ducted fan-powered conventional aircraft armed with heat-seeking missiles. Cassie's love interest in the novel was a pilot of one.
I think that was the Rudel, which we have stats for now.
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I think that was the Rudel, which we have stats for now.
Source?
The MUL is kind enough not to list a sourcebook for the Reudel or Voss.
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Couldn't they be clones or local variants of the Guardian / Jump Bomber?
Or Colt Medium Fighter... especially the SRM...
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Colt (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Colt)
TT
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Couldn't they be clones or local variants of the Guardian / Jump Bomber?
TT
I haven't read the book since the 90s, but I could swear it specifically called them prop-jobs. But that might have been a character making fun of them for not being ASFs.
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~ See my update ~
TT
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I haven't read the book since the 90s, but I could swear it specifically called them prop-jobs. But that might have been a character making fun of them for not being ASFs.
~ See my update ~
TT
Dang! You are both right and I am wrong; BUT! This gives us two (or more?) for the list. We definately need more conventional fighters.
AND! With the SupVee Rules we can make prop-driven light fighters now.
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Well technically... I've made a custom unit...
Using a Nolan MagLev car variant, the little known variant of the Long Tom, LT-MOB-50, the Rail Tom!
And a AU Clan variant as well.... all non-canon...
TT
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Well technically... I've made a custom unit...
Using a Nolan MagLev car variant, the little known variant of the Long Tom, LT-MOB-50, the Rail Tom!
And a AU Clan variant as well.... all non-canon...
TT
So your cannon is not canon. ;D
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Well... I have that MOB-50, another one that is a Construction / Repair variant, a mobile field base and my most expensive mod to date is an overland Moray / Manta Sub carrier...
I've been tinkering with Society builds for awhile now... >:D
TT
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Well technically... I've made a custom unit...
Using a Nolan MagLev car variant, the little known variant of the Long Tom, LT-MOB-50, the Rail Tom!
And a AU Clan variant as well.... all non-canon...
TT
Ah! Good catch! I made a rail-mobile Longtom myself and I even took pains to make it legal---my SupVees rarely are.
But no Canon specs, art and limited fluff qualify it in spades!
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Been trying see if there stuff i missed as far Never-Seen.
I guess this counts for variants.
- Erinyes (Newgrange Class YardShip (modified by WoB with large MassDiver) - Stats not published
Trackmaster VII & Trackmaster VIII - (Earlier civilian version of the Pandion Combat WigE)- There is a Davion version of the Bulldog from TRO:VAR unnamed except for reference as Deuce-and-a-Half.
EDIT: I mystakenly thought the Trackmasters were vehicles. My bad. Sorry guys. I was bit tired when i wrote that.
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Been trying see if there stuff i missed as far Never-Seen.
I guess this counts for variants.
- Erinyes (Newgrange Class YardShip (modified by WoB with large MassDiver) - Stats not published
- Trackmaster VII & Trackmaster VIII - (Earlier civilian version of the Pandion Combat WigE)
- There is a Davion version of the Bulldog from TRO:VAR unnamed except for reference as Deuce-and-a-Half.
Ah yes! The Half-Track! (referring to the Deuce and Half)
I shall add these
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Been trying see if there stuff i missed as far Never-Seen.
I guess this counts for variants.
- Erinyes (Newgrange Class YardShip (modified by WoB with large MassDiver) - Stats not published
- Trackmaster VII & Trackmaster VIII - (Earlier civilian version of the Pandion Combat WigE)
- There is a Davion version of the Bulldog from TRO:VAR unnamed except for reference as Deuce-and-a-Half.
The Pandion entry in TRO 3085 lists the Trackmaster VIII as the Targeting&Tracking system of the Pandion and the Trackmaster VII as the predecessor version of that T&T. Are there other sources that list Trackmaster VII & VIII as actual vehicles? If not, those should be removed from the list.
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The Pandion entry in TRO 3085 lists the Trackmaster VIII as the Targeting&Tracking system of the Pandion and the Trackmaster VII as the predecessor version of that T&T. Are there other sources that list Trackmaster VII & VIII as actual vehicles? If not, those should be removed from the list.
Your right, i was tired when i wrote the trackmaster thing. Sorry about that.
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Has the Jarvis prototype mini-submarine, or the space version of the Jonah mini-sub been mentioned yet? Or Bauer Enterprises heavy LAM that lost out to the Phoenix Hawk LAM?
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Has the Jarvis prototype mini-submarine, or the space version of the Jonah mini-sub been mentioned yet? Or Bauer Enterprises heavy LAM that lost out to the Phoenix Hawk LAM?
Not yet. What's the source for the Jarvis, if I may ask? Edit: nevermind, found it.
Some more:
Oscar atmospheric fighter, mentioned in the Kraken Unleashed entry of Mercenaries Supplemental Update
Harpoon parasub, TRO3085 Supplemental, p. 6
Sovereign class cruiser, two photo captions in Tactical Operations
Rimrunner submarine, TRO:VA p. 172
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Sovereign class cruiser, two photo captions in Tactical Operations
What page?
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Pages 161 and 245.
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That's right! Its example of a large naval vehicle. It even has pictures of it, which is actually model of a USSR Cold War era Destroyer.
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Was the Rising Star included on your list? It was a SL design that was not selected that became the foundation for the Legacy.
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Or Bauer Enterprises heavy LAM that lost out to the Phoenix Hawk LAM?
Was that the Champion LAM?
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Or Bauer Enterprises heavy LAM that lost out to the Phoenix Hawk LAM?
Nope, that was Bergan Industries... Champion LAM...
The Harpoon Parasub is listed in the AToWC using a SRM-2 and a Support Laser, but the pic shows 2x twin somethings on either side and a SRM ??? not SRT!?
TT
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Nope, that was Bergan Industries... Champion LAM...
The Harpoon Parasub is listed in the AToWC using a SRM-2 and a Support Laser, but the pic shows 2x twin somethings on either side and a SRM ??? not SRT!?
TT
OMG. I can picture SLM, or SLAM. Submarine-LAND Mech Champion Mech. Its streamline enough!
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Nope, that was Bergan Industries... Champion LAM...
Nope. It's an unknown LAM mentioned in the fluff for an aerospace fighter from TRO:2750. I'll find out which when I get home.
Edit
According to sarna the unknown heavy LAM is mentioned in the Rapier's entry. It was on of several unknown prototypes submitted to the SLDF before they accepted the Rapier.
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you might come to the conclusion from reading the Champion LAM's entry in XTRO Boondoggles that may or may not be the mystery heavy LAM from 1989's Rapier entry. I have no interest in arguing the point because I don't care either way, but here are the relevant quotes.
Some of the earlier prototypes included a heavy Land-Air 'Mech, which was rejected in favor of the Phoenix Hawk LAM.
...Bergan Industries took on the latter in their attempt to create a heavier LAM.
Selecting the Champion as their baseline seemed only natural for its speedy, aerodynamic design. Still, unlike most of the other LAM projects, the Champion 1X1 model was conceived purely as a proof-of-concept; its end result would not necessarily aim at creating a final, field-ready design, so much as an effort to exceed the design goals of Allied Aerospace’s planned Phoenix Hawk LAM.
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you might come to the conclusion from reading the Champion LAM's entry in XTRO Boondoggles that may or may not be the mystery heavy LAM from 1989's Rapier entry. I have no interest in arguing the point because I don't care either way, but here are the relevant quotes.
Bergen Industries and Bauer Enterprises a different companies. The first quote misses the fact that the prototypes were produced by Bauer Enterprise. The quote also says that the prototype wad rejected. The Champion LAM was never submitted to the SLDF being strictly a proof of concetp, as shown in the second quote.
So Bauer's LAM remains unknown. We don't know if "heavy" means a 55 ton "heavy" Medium Mech or a 60-75 ton Heavy Mech.
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Don’t mind me I just like to make sure I still fail at the most basic reading comprehension
Still if the companies were the same, I wouldn’t necessarily take a ton of stock in discrepancies like “rejected” vs “unsubmitted” as it’s something that can easily get missed in fact checking or quietly painted over. The MUL intro dates are a much more convincing argument that there’s a mystery lam out there
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Don’t mind me I just like to make sure I still fail at the most basic reading comprehension
Still if the companies were the same, I wouldn’t necessarily take a ton of stock in discrepancies like “rejected” vs “unsubmitted” as it’s something that can easily get missed in fact checking or quietly painted over. The MUL intro dates are a much more convincing argument that there’s a mystery lam out there
If they were the same company I probably wouldn't think about it. Then again...that company could have more than one prototype.
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Wildcat Aerotanker from BattleCorps
FYI, it was in Battletechnology, not BattleCorps
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Was the Rising Star included on your list? It was a SL design that was not selected that became the foundation for the Legacy.
Yup! Got it!
Sorry I haven't been on in so long.
the heavy LAM thing is a puzzler, but the write-ups for the Champion and Shadowhawk seem to heavily rule against the foolishness of any further development in that vein. Don't get me wrong; if someone were to make an offical mention of say...a Crusader-LAM prototype; I'd be all over that. But the Champion's entry makes it sound like the bleeding-edge one-prototype-too-far of LAM tech.
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The problem with the Shadow Hawk LAM wasn't its weight but that it was bimodal. The trimodal LANd eclipsed it. Although maybe with some further development and some marketing they could have done better.
Since 55 tons is the legal weight limit there's no reason to believe that Bauer Enterprise's prototype couldn't be fully legal and completely funtioning. The Star League just liked the Phoenix Hawk LAM more.
The Champion LAM was on the very cutting edge of LAM technology and it did work. It would have been nice if they kept working on it so the wouldn't be hanger queens. But I think that of the Thorizer and the Scorpion LAM too.
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Added the MMR from the Colby's Commandos story "Golden Rule" It's a large support vehicle that acts as a mobile mining vehicle and can be run on automatic. Pretty cool, really. Reminds me of the funning little thing from the "Mom and the Kids" Fleet short story. Except not-actually a Von Neuman machine.
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Re-reading Imminent Crisis, and during the New Syrtis CMM's attack on the collapsed Avalon Hussars base, Major Tia Caruthers pilots a Victor 7K . . . but I am not sure if that is a PDF typo. Anyone have the paperback handy?
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probably a typo for 9K. do you have a page number? i have the book but i haven't gotten around to reading it
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ereader, so I expect its a typo for the 9K- really it should be the -9D but I do not think they had come up with that fluff fix for Obj Raids when it was written. The section said I was 71% done.
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Saw a blurb from HB: HS that I hadn't noticed before and added the Jenny ASF trainer.
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Added the Falcon's Roost Orbital Complex and the Dragoon's mobile orbital; Hesperus Station
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I believe that's "Hephaestus" station...
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I believe that's "Hephaestus" station...
Thank you!
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She could have been a stripped M-9 Pavise...
Reason being, it's currently the largest construction with a recordsheet. Replacing the Naval weapons for the mech factory she's supposed to carry... keeping the pressurized bays...
TT
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From the original wolf dragoons book Hephaestus station combined elments of the Olympus and Alliance class stations. Interstellar Operations apparently suggested it was a modified Hughes class yard station.
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From the original wolf dragoons book Hephaestus station combined elments of the Olympus and Alliance class stations. Interstellar Operations apparently suggested it was a modified Hughes class yard station.
I don't think we have stats for the Hughes, either, do we?
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There are no stats for the Hughes class that I am aware of.
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From BattleCorps, two Age of War tank designs are named in “Goliath Out of the Box” - the tracked ICE Capellan-made Suvorov, and the FWL-made Tigershrike hover tank. Both are contemporaries of the prototype Mackie, and would be in the Primitive category.
Likewise, “Break Away” mentions a Terran Hegemony VTOL of the Redhawk class.
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From BattleCorps, two Age of War tank designs are named in “Goliath Out of the Box” - the tracked ICE Capellan-made Suvorov, and the FWL-made Tigershrike hover tank. Both are contemporaries of the prototype Mackie, and would be in the Primitive category.
Likewise, “Break Away” mentions a Terran Hegemony VTOL of the Redhawk class.
I think I have all three (maybe not the Redhawk), but I will check and add as needed.There are no stats for the Hughes class that I am aware of.
I'll add it.
Also; Does anyone else recall a BC story featuring a rebuilt protomech kicking ass and taking named? An erinyes variant if I recall...with M-Pods???
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Sorry, you do have all three.
Two more:
Herdsman AgroMech mentioned in TRO: 3075.
RanchHand AgroMech in “Callie’s Call”
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There's also the Age of War Leviathan-class JumpShip from Far Country - not the same as the Clan WarShip of the same name. And, given statements about how the "reactor has scrammed" - may be fission-powered.
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There's also the Age of War Leviathan-class JumpShip from Far Country - not the same as the Clan WarShip of the same name. And, given statements about how the "reactor has scrammed" - may be fission-powered.
See Experimental Technical Readout: Primitives Vol 5.
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Yep, mystery solved.
I wish though we get actual DropShuttle. Seem like they never succeeded in making one when they were doing the Primitive series. Even the DroST were too heavy to classify as them.
I think the Saturn Class DropShip did though.
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Sorry, you do have all three.
Two more:
Herdsman AgroMech mentioned in TRO: 3075.
RanchHand AgroMech in “Callie’s Call”
Noted!
I am also adding the Yangtze Air transport from Objectives: CC
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Added the Free-Flight Ltd Orbital Dry dock from Objectives: Free World's League. Sounds like a biggun too!
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Dry dock is a Pressurized one, so big enough for an Impavido class WS.
Looking at Free Flight LTD. on Sarna... Also shows a Clipper-class Cargoship, but no stats...
Also 3057r has the stats not RS for the Pressurized Large Yard, most likely with attached Small Habitat station orbiting nearby. Along with an assortment of Small to Medium-ish Orbital Factory " Park ".
I've "built" Titan Yards like this before, back in the day...
TT
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Dry dock is a Pressurized one, so big enough for an Impavido class WS.
Looking at Free Flight LTD. on Sarna... Also shows a Clipper-class Cargoship, but no stats...
Also 3057r has the stats not RS for the Pressurized Large Yard, most likely with attached Small Habitat station orbiting nearby. Along with an assortment of Small to Medium-ish Orbital Factory " Park ".
I've "built" Titan Yards like this before, back in the day...
TT
I will add the Clipper and also the Graf-Tengu Air Transport. And the Manazuru, it seems. Man I like this trend of more conventional aircraft!
Hmmm, I remmber those misc yards in 3057. I always took them as super-generic modules; adjuncts to larger facilities.
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Each one produced a widget of which you need x amount of widgets to produce a small part, where more than one part is need to make a piece.And so on...
TT
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Does the table of content of not released TRO: Irregular Tech count as a never-seen?
It was out years ago but im searching came up with nuthin.
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Does the table of content of not released TRO: Irregular Tech count as a never-seen?
It was out years ago but im searching came up with nuthin.
Fear not my search fu is strong
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=55482.msg1293645#msg1293645
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Fear not my search fu is strong
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=55482.msg1293645#msg1293645
Makes me extra sad its been TWO years going on THREE years since that been posted.
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makes me sad too :'(
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Makes me extra sad its been TWO years going on THREE years since that been posted.
WOW! I never even saw this! I think SOME of these have come out, at least in RS or "Something-Something-New" format, but most have never really been seen. I'll tack em on!
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Have we even gotten any new record sheets in the last two years? Julian Davion's custom Templar III is the only one that comes to mind.
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Have we even gotten any new record sheets in the last two years? Julian Davion's custom Templar III is the only one that comes to mind.
We just got a whole book of new record sheets...
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We did?
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Record Sheets: Succession Wars
Though in fairness most of the sheets in it are reprints with minor formating changes, there are still something like seven all new record sheets in there.
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Really? What's new?
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Really? What's new?
Of the top of my head; the Wolverine WVR-D, Thunderbolt TDR-5D, Zeus ZEU-6A and Atlas AS7-A.
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also the LRM javelin
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Also record sheets for the FLE-16 and the Talos, both mechs that lacked them until this point.
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Are the Zeus and Atlas Command Console variants?
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“The Spider Dances” introduced the Traveler-class aerodyne mail shuttle, in use in the FWL in 2466, predating the HPG. It's stated to have a crew capacity of 2-3, and can be flown by a single pilot.
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the carbine construction Mech mod should have stats
it has AS stats:
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7161/carbine-con-7m-constructionmech-mod
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“The Spider Dances” introduced the Traveler-class aerodyne mail shuttle, in use in the FWL in 2466, predating the HPG. It's stated to have a crew capacity of 2-3, and can be flown by a single pilot.
Will add this.
the carbine construction Mech mod should have stats
it has AS stats:
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7161/carbine-con-7m-constructionmech-mod
You are right. Looks like it was mentioned notably in Vehicle Annex: Revised and given a record sheet in the VA:RS series.
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This one has stats too
Crosscut LoggerMech MOD
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7169/crosscut-ed-x4m-loggermech-mod
didn't check the other industrials in your list
i could do that later
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Is Carbine missing somewhere? 7M Mod and the 9M Mod are in the VA: Annex Record Sheets for Mechs & Exosuits.
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This one has stats too
Crosscut LoggerMech MOD
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7169/crosscut-ed-x4m-loggermech-mod
didn't check the other industrials in your list
i could do that later
I figured that one was in as well. I'd really appreciate it if you could check.
Is Carbine missing somewhere? 7M Mod and the 9M Mod are in the VA: Annex Record Sheets for Mechs & Exosuits.
Yeah; It has a number of variants as well. Apparantly these are all found in RS: VA.
I'm beginning to see why IrTech hasn't come out; much of the content may be in other sourcebooks by now.
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I'm beginning to see why IrTech hasn't come out; much of the content may be in other sourcebooks by now.
There's always room for more IrregularTech.
and BattleTech
and PeaceTech
and AncientTech
and HistoricalTech
and NebulaTech
and OtherTech.
>:D
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I figured that one was in as well. I'd really appreciate it if you could check.
Yeah; It has a number of variants as well. Apparantly these are all found in RS: VA.
I'm beginning to see why IrTech hasn't come out; much of the content may be in other sourcebooks by now.
Just remember that MUL is done by volunteers (last time i checked) so there always stuff not yet added. Some of the stuff from TRO:VA Revised isn't there either. So i won't worry about it being a Never-Seen issue. As long their in a TRO and Record Sheet, Their seen.
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Finally went through my collection of StarDate/Drive and BattleTechnology magazines and added those.
These are probably the most relevant of the never-seen, as they were canon once and many have been re-canonized already. I think that trend should continue as much as possible.
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Really? What's new?
Also the unofficial official RS a couple of the creators released all at once after a few comments about things mentioned in 3145/3150 but never given out, like the Orion C and Tempest C
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The Chaos Irregulars Spector-
Stealth Armor w/Guardian, 4 Lasers- 2 of which are medium class, sensors that are nearly as good as their Mongoose, I am not sure if its dropped to 5 JJ or kept 7 since at one point it says he loses one on a side torso but lit off the other 4 . . . and yet jumps nearly twice as far as a Enforcer, which would mean 7? Then again if you went with 6, 2/2/2 then the hit on the side torso could have taken out both and left the machine with 4 . . . drop the Med Pulse to a ER or Std Med. put the .5t saved from removing 1 JJ to upgrade the Small to a ER, Med Std or Small Pulse, and the crit from dropping that 7th JJ for a 2nd med laser.
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Would the XTRO entries count as well if they did not get specific art?
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Would the XTRO entries count as well if they did not get specific art?
did someone summon my annoying list gathering?
XTRO - No Mini Released
Annihilator 2AX
Anubis 3MC
Atlas 00
Awesome 11M
Awesome 11R
Banzai
Beowulf IIC-PR
Beowulf X-7A
Blade XR
Chameleon 7VQ
Champion LAM
Charger 1X1
Commando Freyr
Cougar XR
Crosscut XX
Daimyo Al-Shahab
Dervish Lightbringer
Devastator X10
Dig Lord
Enforcer 7X
Exterminator 4DX
Exterminator 6CS
Fireball XF
Firestarter 81X
Flea 14
Goshawk II RISC
Grim Reaper Einar
Ha Otoko-HR
Hatamoto-Ku 27W2
Hellspawn Halperin
Hermes II 7S
Highlander 641-X-2
Hoplite 4X
Hornet 181
Hunchback 7S
Huron Warrior RX4
Jackal 1579
Jenner X
Juggernaut R9TX1
Kiso Command
Lament 2D
Liberator
Lich
Matar
Mauler 4X
Merlin SX
Notos
Orca
Osprey 36
Ostscout IIC
Parash 3
Penthesilea 3H
Pompier
Prefect 1C
Rook-X
Schwerer Gustav
Scorpion LAM
Screamer LAM
Slagmaiden
Spatha X
Stealth 5X
Super Wasp
Temax Cat Ninjabolt
Tessen X-4
Thug 11ECX
UrbanMech R93
Valiant 3E
Valiant JX
Vindicator 3LD
Warlord 2XC
Whitworth 5S
Wight 4NC
Wyvern 5UX
Zeus 6Y
XTRO - Mini released
Banshee 11X
Black Knight Red Reaper
Cataphract 0X
Grand Titan Vengeance
Kraken XR
Marauder 4X
No-Dachi 3X
Pillager Anvil
Rifleman III
Rifleman X3
Super Griffin
Triskelion
Victor 9K2
Wraith X
Enforcer III 7D
Mongoose 66GX
Ryoken III
Released as 3085/prototypes/3145&50 mini
Axman 6X
Barghest
Dola
Grasshopper 7X
Hatchetman 7R
Hunchback 7X-4
Mad Cat III-X
Pendragon
Stiletto 6X
Warhammer The Lich
Wolfhound 2X
Raven X
Roadrunner
HawkWolf
Unreleased as 3085/prototypes/3145&50 mini
Arbiter
Hatamoto-Kaeru 35X
Legionnaire 2X1
Orion MX
Pandarus
Patron
Quickdraw 8X
Sarissa
Ti Ts'ang DDC
Trebuchet XK7
Ursus PR
Wolf Trap 2X
Boreas
Celerity
Primitives
BattleAxe
Centurion
Commando
Crossbow
Dervish
Eisenfaust
Firebee
Gladiator
HawkWolf
Helepolis
Icarus
Mackie
Pathfinder
Xanthos
XTRO art is just 3075 art with some extra shading
Kyudo
Phoenix
Rook
Ymir
Ostwar (mini comes with arms for primitive variant)
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Sartris, missing the Royal Fantasy and Unique Pilot units.
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true this was compiled before that was released and i didn't update.
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You have alot more patience than I. :)
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The Chaos Irregulars Spector-
Stealth Armor w/Guardian, 4 Lasers- 2 of which are medium class, sensors that are nearly as good as their Mongoose, I am not sure if its dropped to 5 JJ or kept 7 since at one point it says he loses one on a side torso but lit off the other 4 . . . and yet jumps nearly twice as far as a Enforcer, which would mean 7? Then again if you went with 6, 2/2/2 then the hit on the side torso could have taken out both and left the machine with 4 . . . drop the Med Pulse to a ER or Std Med. put the .5t saved from removing 1 JJ to upgrade the Small to a ER, Med Std or Small Pulse, and the crit from dropping that 7th JJ for a 2nd med laser.
The trend seems to be to name a unique variant off the pilot. Who drove that one?
Would the XTRO entries count as well if they did not get specific art?
Not so much; those are inescapably canon. They have *some kind of art*, stats and fluff. What we're looking for here is at minimum units with missing or non-canon stats.
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Sartris, missing the Royal Fantasy and Unique Pilot units.
Still uncertain of the merits myself of including these as in most cases unique/custom units have fluff in the form of the story that features them. They vary little from the basic art and increasingly we have been statting them out in the various PDF-only products. I'm still interested, however if they are not attributed anywhere. Such as Appolyon's Shootist.
The Royal Fantasy stuff all had at least Stats and Fluff; but no art. However; they were all variants of extant designs, no?
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Fair points. I'd thought a mention since by default some of the previous mentioned units are variants of known mechs, but the no stats or other mentions makes sense.
Still uncertain of the merits myself of including these as in most cases unique/custom units have fluff in the form of the story that features them. They vary little from the basic art and increasingly we have been statting them out in the various PDF-only products. I'm still interested, however if they are not attributed anywhere. Such as Appolyon's Shootist.
The Royal Fantasy stuff all had at least Stats and Fluff; but no art. However; they were all variants of extant designs, no?
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I wasn't aware that the Royal Fantasy stuff even counted as canon.
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It did, the drone control console from the book was even reprinted in Interstellar Operations.
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The trend seems to be to name a unique variant off the pilot. Who drove that one?
Not so much; those are inescapably canon. They have *some kind of art*, stats and fluff. What we're looking for here is at minimum units with missing or non-canon stats.
First it was Grainger Christian , then when it was unit property it was Obediah Joacom, then not really sure . . . its insinuated the original came from the Blakists- or maybe LAAF when it was stolen as part of the Stealth trade is another possibility. But considering the start up phrase was 'Blake fund my path' pretty sure it was Blakists.
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I forget, but another topic jogged my memory, was the BC presented SL prototype Grasshopper included on your list?
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Until the next TROs (at least), TinStar battle armor
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Its got a sheet in the PDF now, and was much discussed . . . to the point it required a 2nd attempt and released a linked sheet. I have the Tinstar sheet w/o having the PDF.
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Where was the sheet released? I don't see it on the downloads page or the Catalyst Store.
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https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=64863.msg1493392#msg1493392
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Thanks.
Huh, that's a pretty solid looking suit. And it's built by a Periphery faction?
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Lol, it was MORE solid b/c originally we were told it had 10 armor +1 . . . then folks could not make that . . . and so they just released a official sheet. Which was nice, keeps it clear.
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That TinStar BA does have a nice weapon and range profile...
2 points damage per suit @ 9 hexes each and can be carried by anything...
Speedy too...
TT
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That TinStar BA does have a nice weapon and range profile...
2 points damage per suit @ 9 hexes each and can be carried by anything...
Speedy too...
TT
1 damage at 8 & 9 hexes, 3 at 7 and below. Too bad its not a King David to collanderize Liao suits.
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I forget, but another topic jogged my memory, was the BC presented SL prototype Grasshopper included on your list?
You're talking about the one from the Legends book? With stealth systems that didn't work?
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You're talking about the one from the Legends book? With stealth systems that didn't work?
IIRC, the prototype Grasshopper (has MUL entry (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4231/grasshopper-ghr-4r) actually) implicitly sports Guardian ECM as "stealth system". It is featured in one BattleCorps story, with sufficient detail it can be pretty much reconstructed though it lacks official record sheet.
Here's the thread about that:
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=7624.msg173989#msg173989
(Also here's how i translated that into stats https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=55136.msg1269114 )
Uncertain if the "Legacy Grasshopper" from Legacy anthology is an example of the 4R type.
The GHR-4R is from 2778, the "Legacy Grasshopper" was apparently built in 2779 but the standard GHR-5H was introduced in 2780, though i suppose the first prototypes for the Grasshopper could've been designated 4R and date from '78, and the "Legacy Grasshopper" was built the following year.
I need to get Legacy one of these days, along with the other new BT fiction.
EDIT
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/A_Soldier%27s_Privilege
Looks like the story mentioned is set in 2791! That makes it unlikely the 'Mech in the story is a prototype Grasshopper as it is apparently factory-fresh. So, some possibilities: the GHR-4R type was in production for 13 years at least, the original concept got of the ground only later, or the Grasshopper from the story is yet another type that is lacking record sheet AND a MUL entry, or it was individually customized in a factory.
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Except IIRC the story says he was given it as part of the SLDF and declined to leave with Kerensky. Way I always read it (and to be fair long before Legacy) was that it was a design under development by the SLDF and it never went anywhere due to the break up of the Star League and start of the Succession Wars. Sort of like the German models of advanced weapon systems during the Operation Paperclip days ending up with the Allies or Russians, depending on who could raid the labs first.
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The stealth ‘Mech from Legacy would have been the GHR-1X Ghost Hunter. For stats, take the standard Grasshopper chassis and put in a Chameleon Light Polarization Shield and Null Signature System, weight and cost-wise, but have them fry the computer system when switched on. (Perhaps give them the failure curve of MASC.)
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Yeah, okay both those do qualify then. The GHR-1X would be akin to a Boondogles entry, but the -4R as recontructed fits the bill perfectly and is almost the ideal Never-Seen design as we can attribute most of it stats, as laid out in the associated thread.
IIRC, the prototype Grasshopper (has MUL entry (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4231/grasshopper-ghr-4r) actually) implicitly sports Guardian ECM as "stealth system". It is featured in one BattleCorps story, with sufficient detail it can be pretty much reconstructed though it lacks official record sheet.
Here's the thread about that:
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=7624.msg173989#msg173989
(Also here's how i translated that into stats https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=55136.msg1269114 )
Uncertain if the "Legacy Grasshopper" from Legacy anthology is an example of the 4R type.
The GHR-4R is from 2778, the "Legacy Grasshopper" was apparently built in 2779 but the standard GHR-5H was introduced in 2780, though i suppose the first prototypes for the Grasshopper could've been designated 4R and date from '78, and the "Legacy Grasshopper" was built the following year.
I need to get Legacy one of these days, along with the other new BT fiction.
EDIT
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/A_Soldier%27s_Privilege
Looks like the story mentioned is set in 2791! That makes it unlikely the 'Mech in the story is a prototype Grasshopper as it is apparently factory-fresh. So, some possibilities: the GHR-4R type was in production for 13 years at least, the original concept got of the ground only later, or the Grasshopper from the story is yet another type that is lacking record sheet AND a MUL entry, or it was individually customized in a factory.
You're doing better than me. I own the book, have read it and still got the name wrong.
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Did the 'Baby Sylvester' dropship ever get included in your list?
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Did the 'Baby Sylvester' dropship ever get included in your list?
Sure did! I really want to see that one too!
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Was the davion equipped PPC Locust from the first edition print of 3025 mentioned?
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Was the davion equipped PPC Locust from the first edition print of 3025 mentioned?
tell me, we know more about it.. or was it a framework holding a PPC???
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Clearly someone confused a PPC-wielding Cicada for a Locust.
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It's no Ost levels of switchabilty i'm sure.
Clearly someone confused a PPC-wielding Cicada for a Locust.
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Clearly someone confused a PPC-wielding Cicada for a Locust.
It can be done on an intro tech Locust, but you lose a lot of speed...
Ruger
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It can be done on an intro tech Locust, but you lose a lot of speed...
Ruger
You can actually keep the speed. You just can't be too attached to your armor (since you won't have any... ;) ).
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Best compromise I've been able to do is drop a speed bracket and go to a single ton of armor with no backup weapons.
You can actually keep the speed. You just can't be too attached to your armor (since you won't have any... ;) ).
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Im not sure if it counts, but the Marsden 1 has no record sheet as far as I know, and furtheremore both it and the 2 appear to lack a model (available in the UK anyway), essentially making it a canon unit that is unplayable.
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Do we have a large laser locust anywhere? Might be a compromise that does not die if looked at.
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Im not sure if it counts, but the Marsden 1 has no record sheet as far as I know, and furtheremore both it and the 2 appear to lack a model (available in the UK anyway), essentially making it a canon unit that is unplayable.
The Marsden IIA just upgrades the weapons- should be about the same.
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The Marsden IIA just upgrades the weapons- should be about the same.
No, the 2A is an upgrade of the standard 2, the 1 is heavier and has a different loadout.
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The 1A was a primitive I thought, stats were roughly the same but it achieved it by the heavier components . . . yeah, I thought I had seen it-
(http://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/4/49/Marsden_i.jpg?timestamp=20110808051302)
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Marsden_I (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Marsden_I)
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Im not sure if it counts, but the Marsden 1 has no record sheet as far as I know, and furtheremore both it and the 2 appear to lack a model (available in the UK anyway), essentially making it a canon unit that is unplayable.
Marsden I card (and image) is on the MUL. The record sheet and info is in Era Digest: Age of War. The Marsden 2 also has artwork and record sheets, plus a miniature (http://ironwindmetals.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=6881), which could easily be modified to represent the Marsden I.
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Do we have a large laser locust anywhere? Might be a compromise that does not die if looked at.
Pretty sure that was a Flea...
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Marsden I card (and image) is on the MUL. The record sheet and info is in Era Digest: Age of War. The Marsden 2 also has artwork and record sheets, plus a miniature (http://ironwindmetals.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=6881), which could easily be modified to represent the Marsden I.
I stand corrected on both accounts, didnt know anything about the miniature though and looking at the price I dont think I want too.... Especially when you consider postage and import tax.
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I stand corrected on both accounts, didnt know anything about the miniature though and looking at the price I dont think I want too.... Especially when you consider postage and import tax.
Get a mini of any modern Battletank and it's close enough
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need a tiger t-12 mini to go with my lance of marsdens and merkavas. add that to the company of primitives i've got going and a lance of ignus plus for platoons of infantry and you could field a nice age of war combined arms battalion
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Do we have a large laser locust anywhere? Might be a compromise that does not die if looked at.
I think I recall this....but my copy of the original TRO 3025 doesn't mention PPC *OR* LL Locusts. Maybe it's one of those German-Language innovations we see from time to time in various products?
In any event what I recall was a failure; it had been tried, but not successfully and never fielded.
I stand corrected on both accounts, didnt know anything about the miniature though and looking at the price I dont think I want too.... Especially when you consider postage and import tax.
I grant you that the turret is significantly different, but as it has fluff, stats and art; it is covered for the purposes of this thread.
I am unsure if there is a current "Needs Mini" thread, but it would be swell to maintain one.
I would suggest checking amazon for the mini. A few years ago there was a distributor working from there who bosted noticably lower prices. Failing that the various FB groups might help and I have good experiences with both BV traders and Aries games and miniatures.
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The Locust variant was only mentioned in the original first print of TRO 3025 that had an msrp of 9.95, instead of being 12.00.
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need a tiger t-12 mini to go with my lance of marsdens and merkavas. add that to the company of primitives i've got going and a lance of ignus plus for platoons of infantry and you could field a nice age of war combined arms battalion
Po Heavy Tank would be the closes to fitting the bill. Just add a SRM launcher to the turret, the vent like armor on the skirt would be the only thing missing.
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PPC on a Locust works if you increase the chassis weight to 25 tons. You have to drop the speed to 6/9, replacing the 160 engine with a similar-sized 150, but you can keep one machine gun and a half ton of ammo without ditching any armor. Considering you can keep the original gyro and stay legal, it accounts for the fluffed knockdown effect.
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The Locust variant was only mentioned in the original first print of TRO 3025 that had an msrp of 9.95, instead of being 12.00.
Wow! Now that qualifies!
Would be a nice add for a historical, no?
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Po Heavy Tank would be the closes to fitting the bill. Just add a SRM launcher to the turret, the vent like armor on the skirt would be the only thing missing.
Huh? Both the I & II have the SRM launchers in the body with a front arc.
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for the tiger, not the marsden
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Sorry, I was still tracking on the Marsden . . . I still wish we had gotten a Tiger II during the Jihad . . . lose 5t for transport, go FCE, LBX, MML and better armor. *Sigh& Dreams*
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Get a mini of any modern Battletank and it's close enough
Ive already got a company of proxies that look almost the same ;) Thanks though.
On topic, what about the Puma Wheeled Tank? There is art for it and it was in the first box, but AFAIK it doesnt exist in either record sheet form or model form.
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Ive already got a company of proxies that look almost the same ;) Thanks though.
On topic, what about the Puma Wheeled Tank? There is art for it and it was in the first box, but AFAIK it doesnt exist in either record sheet form or model form.
Can you cite that one? Post the art or expand on which box you mean?
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Can you cite that one? Post the art or expand on which box you mean?
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hunter_Assault_Tank
Meant Hunter, my bad.
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http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hunter_Assault_Tank
Meant Hunter, my bad.
Yeah! That would qualify!
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Did you include Norse-Storm's Daemon mech that was supposed to take over the line that was producing the Spector for a limited run?
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Did you include Norse-Storm's Daemon mech that was supposed to take over the line that was producing the Spector for a limited run?
No...I never noticed that one before! Thank you!
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Seen, but no stats? Mech (Bluewater) Landing Craft.
(https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=62767.0;attach=53213)
(https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=62767.0;attach=53215)
If the pictures are to be believed, there at least two types. One that can transport a Lance of Mechs, one that can handle Company of Mechs.
I was reading the sections in Liberation of Terra II, there really no mention in name of the Blue-water landing craft.
I'd imagine they can either be easily constructed or Easily transported by a DropShip as cargo like Bucuneer or Trumph-Class DropShip.
Don't ask me if those Large Support Vehicles in the background either.
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Seen, no stats (no name as well).
(https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=62767.0;attach=53217)
Not sure WHAT this is, other than it looks like a Mobile HQ of some kind that likely is a Small Craft of some kind.
I'm suggesting it IS a small craft, because way it has ramp to load/unload from whatever facing it is.
From Historical Liberation of Terra 2, p. 53. Don't know who the artist is, i can say for certain it's not Chris Lewis.
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Not sure WHAT this is, other than it looks like a Mobile HQ of some kind that likely is a Small Craft of some kind.
I'm suggesting it IS a small craft, because way it has ramp to load/unload from whatever facing it is.
Not the right shape for a small craft, but it would fit as an mobile structure.
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Rather small for a mobile structure, isn't it?
Honestly, I'd just thought it was a modular command post of some sort.
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I think it's on the small side for mobile structure. Nothing impossible shapewise when it comes to battletech related aerospace vehicles. The DrOST ships are almost just as non-flyable shaped Aerodynes as well. This thing could be classified as one. I doubt those spheres are big wheels.... I want ask Brent Evens, i think he was the one who did this art. I've put out a question for chance answer. It's bummer, we don't know.
I kept thinking it was more a Small Craft for Special Ops, Mobile HQ. Since why bother to have almost a Lance of Heavy/Assault Lance guard the thing, while it's way too small to house those trucks. Pop-up structure would be kinda disappointing, but oh well. We may never know.
I'd love stats for the landing Mech crafts.
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I think it's on the small side for mobile structure. Nothing impossible shapewise when it comes to battletech related aerospace vehicles. The DrOST ships are almost just as non-flyable shaped Aerodynes as well. This thing could be classified as one. I doubt those spheres are big wheels.... I want ask Brent Evens, i think he was the one who did this art. I've put out a question for chance answer. It's bummer, we don't know.
I kept thinking it was more a Small Craft for Special Ops, Mobile HQ. Since why bother to have almost a Lance of Heavy/Assault Lance guard the thing, while it's way too small to house those trucks. Pop-up structure would be kinda disappointing, but oh well. We may never know.
In the background there are about 7 more, so it isn't an mobile HQ, I am thinking maybe mobile artillery as the top-side can open up and that there seems to be one in the far background with an artillery weapon.
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Hmmm.. that would be pretty cool... Artillery mounted directly on Small Craft... 8)
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It's not in the background, the foreground object has two ball turrets on opposite sides.
Maybe it's a field HPG system? That would justify the security, the relatively small access ramp (personnel, equipment, but not heavy vehicles).
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These would all totally fit the bill. need to think about how to list them though...
As for the...thing...do we have any precedence for pre-fabricated structures? I don't remember any rules. But like something that could be built on the spot from an easily-assembled kit flown in on a dropship, maybe?
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Another possibility: forward re-arming point. Top opens up for crane/lift/etc. to access the loading ports. That would work as a pre-fab structure deliverable by small craft.
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These would all totally fit the bill. need to think about how to list them though...
As for the...thing...do we have any precedence for pre-fabricated structures? I don't remember any rules. But like something that could be built on the spot from an easily-assembled kit flown in on a dropship, maybe?
I don't think the rules on buildings are detailed enough for distinct rules regarding prefabs. I'd expect them to be primarily L1 Light buildings with low CFs.
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Pre-fab structures, wouldn't the Collapsible Command Module count?
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Personally I've always thought this was a building of some sort as it lacks any visible form of locomotion. It could perhaps be some form of weird Spheroid DropShip though as it looks like there are impact cracters under the ball-like structures at the corners. Alternatively, it could be an air-dropped supply cache / base - the open hatch at the top being where the parachute was attached.
Chris
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Pre-fab structures, wouldn't the Collapsible Command Module count?
Well; my definition: YES. Because you do drop it off and it un-folds into a small building. This could be like that on a larger scale. Adding the two landing craft as "Large and Small Mech Landing Craft" From Liberation of Terra II.
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The weird ball-tipped structure looks like a giant (superheavy) hovercraft to me. Remember the Star League had the technology for skirtless hovercraft. It could be a small craft, but it doesn't resemble any other small craft in the setting and I don't see anything that looks like thrusters.
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Seen, but no stats? Mech (Bluewater) Landing Craft.
(https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=62767.0;attach=53213)
(https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=62767.0;attach=53215)
If the pictures are to be believed, there at least two types. One that can transport a Lance of Mechs, one that can handle Company of Mechs.
I was reading the sections in Liberation of Terra II, there really no mention in name of the Blue-water landing craft.
I'd imagine they can either be easily constructed or Easily transported by a DropShip as cargo like Bucuneer or Trumph-Class DropShip.
Don't ask me if those Large Support Vehicles in the background either.
They look like LSTs from WW2. You're right Wrangler, they're probably not hovercraft. I like how they have missile launchers integrated into them too; providing fire support for their cargo.
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HDSB - Mention of a (rumoured) Trojan class DropShip under development by Federated-Boeing
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Did that TROPrototypes Mad Cat III variant get mentioned already?
It says something about a variant that replaces the LRMs with SRMs and modifies laser loadout.
The thing is, not a single published Mad Cat III (non-custom) variant does that, each one retains LRM-20s.
Of course, as in-universe information, the TRO could be mistaken or the variant was planned but not produced. The text implies it is already being sold tough.
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The weird ball-tipped structure looks like a giant (superheavy) hovercraft to me. Remember the Star League had the technology for skirtless hovercraft. It could be a small craft, but it doesn't resemble any other small craft in the setting and I don't see anything that looks like thrusters.
I'm not too stuck on myself to not just call it a "Thingamajigger" and leave it at that. That's leaning shrill in my book though; at that point I'm saying; hey! "Explain this random art in one book that's about 25% photoshopped. And give me something to play with out of it."
IMO: it looks A LOT like the GI Joe: BattleForce 2000 base that all the vehicles transformed into. (http://www.joebattlelines.com/m6d/ARAHDatabase/BF2000/Wallpapers/BattleForce2000WP.jpg)
HDSB - Mention of a (rumoured) Trojan class DropShip under development by Federated-Boeing
Well we have a Trojan Dropship...http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Trojan (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Trojan) Are you sure you don't mean the abortive CargoMaster/CargoKing program? http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Cargomaster (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Cargomaster)
Did that TROPrototypes Mad Cat III variant get mentioned already?
It says something about a variant that replaces the LRMs with SRMs and modifies laser loadout.
The thing is, not a single published Mad Cat III (non-custom) variant does that, each one retains LRM-20s.
Of course, as in-universe information, the TRO could be mistaken or the variant was planned but not produced. The text implies it is already being sold tough.
Is that from the New-is-the-new-new bit? Because I don't think most of those across all the recent TROs have been published. They're in an odd limbo right now. We could really use a Record Sheets: New and Old to cover them off, because there is a few of them.
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Well we have a Trojan Dropship...http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Trojan (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Trojan) Are you sure you don't mean the abortive CargoMaster/CargoKing program? http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Cargomaster (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Cargomaster)
Yep. Federated Boeing were ***rumoured*** to be working on a DropShip...codename Trojan...that had an unusually small sensor profile....a stealthship.
Of course, it was just rumoured so easy to say it never existed, but where's the fun in that?
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HDSB - Mention of a (rumoured) Trojan class DropShip under development by Federated-Boeing
Yep. Federated Boeing were ***rumoured*** to be working on a DropShip...codename Trojan...that had an unusually small sensor profile....a stealthship.
Of course, it was just rumoured so easy to say it never existed, but where's the fun in that?
You know, they could have been working on returning the Vampire Class DropShip (500 tons and all) back to service as special ops ship (which later modern variants became.)
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Yep. Federated Boeing were ***rumoured*** to be working on a DropShip...codename Trojan...that had an unusually small sensor profile....a stealthship.
Of course, it was just rumoured so easy to say it never existed, but where's the fun in that?
The Mauler didn't turn out anything like the rumors that preceded it....
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You know, they could have been working on returning the Vampire Class DropShip (500 tons and all) back to service as special ops ship (which later modern variants became.)
We have more modern Vampires...no stealth dropships though. That could work.
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Is that from the New-is-the-new-new bit? Because I don't think most of those across all the recent TROs have been published. They're in an odd limbo right now. We could really use a Record Sheets: New and Old to cover them off, because there is a few of them.
No, it was from TRO Prototypes Mad Cat III write-up's variant section.
Now, i've vague recollection that most of TRO Prototypes variants are missing their record sheets... and checking MUL, it seems that 2-variant exists but is missing all data. Presumably that would correspond to the mentioned variant.
Further causing confusion is that old RSDarkAge lists Mad Cat III 2 but that is nowadays Mad Cat III 5.
Sigh.
So many 'Mechs with NTNU or other TRO entries or mentions missing their record sheets...
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Well, we did get a handful of sheets or written placements from the actual authors.
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You know, they could have been working on returning the Vampire Class DropShip (500 tons and all) back to service as special ops ship (which later modern variants became.)
Maybe, but that was Jalastar.
Anyway...I dug out the quote. Nothing to say it was anything ever more than a rumour, but still...
Several rumors have been circulating about Federated-
Boeing. One has it that the company is attempting to design a
completely new DropShip class. Apparently codenamed “Trojan,”
the ship is said to have an extremely small sensor silhouette that
will make it difficult for enemy defenders to detect. Our agents
have yet to find any hard evidence to prove this rumor true or
false.
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No, it was from TRO Prototypes Mad Cat III write-up's variant section.
Now, i've vague recollection that most of TRO Prototypes variants are missing their record sheets... and checking MUL, it seems that 2-variant exists but is missing all data. Presumably that would correspond to the mentioned variant.
Yeah, Catalyst still hasn't produced an Unabridged record sheet compilation for Prototypes, so there's a lot of that going around with variant designs in that book.
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They look like LSTs from WW2. You're right Wrangler, they're probably not hovercraft. I like how they have missile launchers integrated into them too; providing fire support for their cargo.
DEFINITELY not hovercraft. The ones in the bottom picture can be seen making their way through surface ice, which hovercraft would just move above.
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DEFINITELY not hovercraft. The ones in the bottom picture can be seen making their way through surface ice, which hovercraft would just move above.
I think the hovercraft references are to the multi-ball thingy, not the landing craft.
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No, it was from TRO Prototypes Mad Cat III write-up's variant section.
Now, i've vague recollection that most of TRO Prototypes variants are missing their record sheets... and checking MUL, it seems that 2-variant exists but is missing all data. Presumably that would correspond to the mentioned variant.
Further causing confusion is that old RSDarkAge lists Mad Cat III 2 but that is nowadays Mad Cat III 5.
Sigh.
So many 'Mechs with NTNU or other TRO entries or mentions missing their record sheets...
Do you perhaps have a list of those?
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Do you perhaps have a list of those?
Not really.
Off-hand...
TRO3150 NTNU section is missing record sheets. Battle Armor, Vehicles, ASFs, 'Mechs.
TROPrototypes lacks unabridged record sheets (essentially all mentioned variants in the book).
ER2750 has several 'Mechs lacking record sheets (these can be found in MegaMek, but i'm not sure if they're as intended or merely assumed recreations).
The Dragoon from Liberation of Terra is missing its variants (also in MegaMek, same question as above).
I find lack of TROPrototypes RS and 3150NTNU RS big deal since i'm especially interested in the Dark Age era, far more so than any other era.
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Those two are also fairly substantial numbers of record sheets that are missing and they've both been that way for a fairly long time at this point. It's especially a let-down with 3150 given that record sheets for 3145 were released simultaneously (or nearly so) with the TRO.
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DEFINITELY not hovercraft. The ones in the bottom picture can be seen making their way through surface ice, which hovercraft would just move above.
I think that's art work being what was. Not fantastic. I think suppose to be rough waters.
The first image was suppose to on Carver V liberation. The company size lst seems to be Mexican shore as part of the Liberation of North America.
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Seen, but no stats? Mech (Bluewater) Landing Craft.
(https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=62767.0;attach=53213)
(https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=62767.0;attach=53215)
If the pictures are to be believed, there at least two types. One that can transport a Lance of Mechs, one that can handle Company of Mechs.
I was reading the sections in Liberation of Terra II, there really no mention in name of the Blue-water landing craft.
I'd imagine they can either be easily constructed or Easily transported by a DropShip as cargo like Bucuneer or Trumph-Class DropShip.
Don't ask me if those Large Support Vehicles in the background either.
Based upon your wording and the graphics I thought that you where that this vehicle was a 'Mech at first!
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ER2750 has several 'Mechs lacking record sheets (these can be found in MegaMek, but i'm not sure if they're as intended or merely assumed recreations).
The Dragoon from Liberation of Terra is missing its variants (also in MegaMek, same question as above).
One of the rare times I made them based of fluff and strictly built with how I would do the crit locations versus where they would actually end up.
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One of the rare times I made them based of fluff and strictly built with how I would do the crit locations versus where they would actually end up.
Ah, i see, so they're not really official. But i'll take 'em while waiting for the real record sheets... some day...
The same applies to the Dragoon?
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Ah, i see, so they're not really official. But i'll take 'em while waiting for the real record sheets... some day...
The same applies to the Dragoon?
There only one variant that has a record sheet that been published, that one was used by Reborn ComStar in Turning Points: Epsilon Eridani (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Turning_Points:_Epsilon_Eridani) for their demise in 3143.
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There only one variant that has a record sheet that been published, that one was used by Reborn ComStar in Turning Points: Epsilon Eridani (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Turning_Points:_Epsilon_Eridani) for their demise in 3143.
I'm talking about the unpublished Dragoons that are included in MegaMek.
The question being if they're made by Hammer based on descriptions in Liberation of Terra, or if they're from CGL under the table, so to speak. (IIRC, in the Dragoon MOTW, someone notes that they once got RS from the Dragoon's creator.)
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I’ve created several that them got changed when the official RS came out. My CP-11-B didn’t have ferro-fibrous, double heat sinks, etc. That’s a fairly extreme example, but it’s always possible.
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It's the main reason we only add units to Megamek when they have a Record Sheet. But I love playing in the SL era so couldn't resist not making them.
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I think in cases like these, however; the NEW-NEW-NEW-OLD-NEW entries and what was a pretty showcased unit for the end of the Amaris Civil War; we can expect that there is very likely a real intention to get us recordsheets for these units.
IrTech is a product that has not yet/may not come out. But for stuff that is actually in books? The only unit off the top of my head like that, besides *All of the Naval SupVees* (IIRC) is the Phoenix Hawk from 3025 with EW Gear and that was retconned.
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Hammer, side question but did you guys add the 3150 variants that had a bunch of RS released by authors unofficially 'official' here on the forums a few months back?
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Speaking of Never-Seen, i just remembered that there a Carrack-Class Transport/Warship variant we haven't seen record sheet/stats for. The Aerospace Carrier variant, that Great Houses employed during the First Succession War. I know (don't got books on me at the moment) that Free World league & Federated Suns had at least couple that appeared in that book.
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I remembered reading the old Dark Age Novels, that Dropships that were military/mech carriers were converted into Civilian Cargo/Passenger ships, I forgot the term they used in the novels. However, we have no stats for them. I know that Excalibur-Class's conversion allowed for 4 Mech bays to remain, while the rest of it was left to passengers and Cargo use. I know there as at least Union & Overlords which were converted to civilian use, and Leopard as well.
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Hammer, side question but did you guys add the 3150 variants that had a bunch of RS released by authors unofficially 'official' here on the forums a few months back?
What??? I totally missed this!
Speaking of Never-Seen, i just remembered that there a Carrack-Class Transport/Warship variant we haven't seen record sheet/stats for. The Aerospace Carrier variant, that Great Houses employed during the First Succession War. I know (don't got books on me at the moment) that Free World league & Federated Suns had at least couple that appeared in that book.
Boom! That's a great one! In the 1st SW book?
I remembered reading the old Dark Age Novels, that Dropships that were military/mech carriers were converted into Civilian Cargo/Passenger ships, I forgot the term they used in the novels. However, we have no stats for them. I know that Excalibur-Class's conversion allowed for 4 Mech bays to remain, while the rest of it was left to passengers and Cargo use. I know there as at least Union & Overlords which were converted to civilian use, and Leopard as well.
Okay, I think that most people who have played with HMA long enough did these ourselves, but I *do not* think we have this in canon. And we should. They have been mentioned also in the Archer Christofori books as well.
A quick look on Sarna reveals a Union Cargo variant in 3057r. But nothing mixed-payload and nothing for the other common types. I'll add those as well.
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Hammer, side question but did you guys add the 3150 variants that had a bunch of RS released by authors unofficially 'official' here on the forums a few months back?
Nope, don't remember seeing them. That said I would add them as unofficial units if someone has the link.
I remembered reading the old Dark Age Novels, that Dropships that were military/mech carriers were converted into Civilian Cargo/Passenger ships, I forgot the term they used in the novels. However, we have no stats for them. I know that Excalibur-Class's conversion allowed for 4 Mech bays to remain, while the rest of it was left to passengers and Cargo use. I know there as at least Union & Overlords which were converted to civilian use, and Leopard as well.
Speaking of Never-Seen, i just remembered that there a Carrack-Class Transport/Warship variant we haven't seen record sheet/stats for. The Aerospace Carrier variant, that Great Houses employed during the First Succession War. I know (don't got books on me at the moment) that Free World league & Federated Suns had at least couple that appeared in that book.
When we added the ability to build DS/JS/WS I went through a bunch of the old 3057R fluff text and created variants based of the fluff. Not canon but fun.
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When we added the ability to build DS/JS/WS I went through a bunch of the old 3057R fluff text and created variants based of the fluff. Not canon but fun.
Hopefully MUL will include them. I know DropShip & WarShips aren't CGL's thing anymore.
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Did the Shadow-Griffin ever get added? It was mentioned in Betrayer of Ideals, but i could have sworn I had seen it mentioned earlier.
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Did the Shadow-Griffin ever get added? It was mentioned in Betrayer of Ideals, but i could have sworn I had seen it mentioned earlier.
No record sheet.
It is a FrankenMech probably, and given how similar the two 'Mechs are, it wouldn't appear to be odd under rules.
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the Minsk, Fox and the Omni Corvis have record sheets in Turning Points Tokasha
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Curious, would Clan Stone Lion produce those or have a variant or two of those?
'Just wondering, as I don't have the PDF...
TT
(If one of you wants to PM the answer...)
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TP Tokasha doesn't really delve into details who produces what and when. It just contains RS for those 'Mechs.
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Minsk is CGB first produced 2830, Fox is CSF first produced 2824 as per Tech Manual (TRO Golden Century may change those dates, but i've been away from the board a while so i don't know the status of said TRO)
Also the OP never said they had to have full wright up's just that they were mentioned but were missing art and/or record sheets, those three now have record sheets, though i'm not sure if the omni corvus was mentioned in any corvis entries.
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Curious, would Clan Stone Lion produce those or have a variant or two of those?
'Just wondering, as I don't have the PDF...
(If one of you wants to PM the answer...)
Those won't exist until Technical Readout: Golden Century comes out, the Turning Point has it as a t. Notice in the pdf, which is hopeful the book will eventually come out.
Unfortunately there isn't art for them, soo technically their unseen.
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Curious, would Clan Stone Lion produce those or have a variant or two of those?
Those went extinct long before Clan Stone Lion was created during/after the Wars of Reaving.
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Those went extinct long before Clan Stone Lion was created during/after the Wars of Reaving.
We don't exactly if those Mechs/vehicles/aerospace etc aren't dead or not. They could have been put into Brian Caches. Also they were out of game, designed after Wars of Reaving were made.
It be nice to see someone right a story or two in the Clan Home worlds in the aftermath of the mess. Just stuff immediately after it since authors who wrote it are gone.
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We don't exactly if those Mechs/vehicles/aerospace etc aren't dead or not. They could have been put into Brian Caches. Also they were out of game, designed after Wars of Reaving were made.
Correct me if I am wrong, but the MUL is a canon source. If the MUL says they're extinct, until something new is written, those designs are extinct. All the fan guesswork and what-if's in the world do not change canon. Should a player choose to do something different with their own game, there is nothing stopping them. But that also does not change canon.
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It should be noted that MUL is ever evolving.
The Dragoon was thought extinct in the sourcebook it was introduced and listed so in MUL but ComStar found one anyway. The Shogun is extinct but was put back into production according to 3150NTNU, and its availability in MUL hasn't been updated yet (partially probably because the RS for new variants aren't available).
Of course we don't really know for sure until TRO Golden Century is released and the designs are added to MUL properly.
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I can confirm that MUL not updated, Turing Points: Tokasha has number new units they included in there either has very little info such as the Fox BattleMech and Minsk, and unites that have been listed yet such as the Kokou Defense Tank, Issedone Light OmniFighter, which clearly have record sheets printed.
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It should be noted that MUL is ever evolving.
The Dragoon was thought extinct in the sourcebook it was introduced and listed so in MUL but ComStar found one anyway. The Shogun is extinct but was put back into production according to 3150NTNU, and its availability in MUL hasn't been updated yet (partially probably because the RS for new variants aren't available).
Of course we don't really know for sure until TRO Golden Century is released and the designs are added to MUL properly.
Yeah, I pretty much said that...
If the MUL says they're extinct, until something new is written, those designs are extinct. All the fan guesswork and what-if's in the world do not change canon. Should a player choose to do something different with their own game, there is nothing stopping them. But that also does not change canon.
Point being, current canon points to them being extinct, period. Fan speculation about future canon is not canon. Players can do what they wish with their own games, nobody is saying they can't, but that still does not change canon.
We're also talking about a Homeworld Clan, and, in my opinion, are quite unlikely to get any solid information on them any time soon. TRO: Golden Century may flesh out the designs in that era, but what do you think the odds are of any information stretching into the current era? If anything, there may be hooks and loopholes for writers to use in the future, but that still won't be "current" information until it is actually written.
I can confirm that MUL not updated, Turing Points: Tokasha has number new units they included in there either has very little info such as the Fox BattleMech and Minsk, and unites that have been listed yet such as the Kokou Defense Tank, Issedone Light OmniFighter, which clearly have record sheets printed.
So, we're discussing the Fox (Clan Diamond Shark design), Minsk (Clan Ghost Bear design), and Corvis Omni (unknown origin). What information about them contained in TP: Tokasha will be added to the MUL and state anything about post-Reaving production? I wager nothing.
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You know, not to start another dead flame war and get this thread locked...
They said the Mackie was dead, gone... but an example was shown in canon, of all things, the clans had one made ready for a Trial.
If one has a Recordsheet, then one has an example of said unit. Even if it's just a one off, like Gausszilla. I can clearly state one exists, but that is my table... not yours. And Cache is kinda correct, unless a TPTB makes or enforces a ruling into fact, its still unknown hearsay... bt it's your table!
In other words...I'm wanting a complete factual listing, I'm going to have to create my own.
TT
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the ruling into fact is the MUL - if you think there's an error report it.
I'm wanting a complete factual listing, I'm going to have to create my own.
i look forward to seeing it when you finish in the late 2030s
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HA! :thumbsup:
TT
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You know, not to start another dead flame war and get this thread locked...
Please, no.
Thrilled that this thread draws so much interest, however.
My 0.02...which rounds down to nothing now that we got rid of the penny...is that as with the Woodsman; the ideal of the Labour Caste is to produce just enough to meet the Clan's needs and be all used up in action; then recycled, if possible. Do the Clans keep making/contributing to their caches later on? I never heard that before, but cool if so!
However...Logically; unless the data is lost...what stops someone from making new ones if they fit the need?
Isn't that how we got the retrotech mechs during the Jihad? Everything up to Mackies rolling off ersatz production lines from old specs that someone got, somehow.
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The Clans aren't big on history in general, but technical specs for Mechs? I can see technicians and/or merchant members keeping good archives for those.
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You'd figure they'd have to right? To prevent a tech collapse?
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My 0.02...which rounds down to nothing now that we got rid of the penny...is that as with the Woodsman; the ideal of the Labour Caste is to produce just enough to meet the Clan's needs and be all used up in action; then recycled, if possible. Do the Clans keep making/contributing to their caches later on? I never heard that before, but cool if so!
Well . . . we know large/powerful Clans will stock their own caches . . . we have two bits of fluff that indicate this . . . the Highlander IIC and Hellfire/Lupus. Both are interesting examples . . . I want to say it was the Wolves who pulled old SLDF Highlanders out of their caches to rebuild them to Clan spec as IICs- even while some poorer Clans might still have been using the -732 (this was before the Royals). Something happened to make the Wolf Clan need to bolster their secondline forces- or maybe not, came out 4 years after the Omni was introduced- which prompted them to pull Star League Highlanders out of caches to refit with Clan weapons. IMO a production slowdown as they retooled to Omnis? Working out the kinks of producing the Woodsman? Whatever, but it means at some point the Wolves, and other big Clans (Jags, Falcons, Adders, Coyotes, Bears), decided to put Highlanders into storage likely b/c they had enough new production using Clan weapons like Warhammer IIC, Wakazashi (JF), Supernova, Marauder IIC, etc that using Star League designs was considered a disadvantage. So while producing new Clan tech mechs, they retired Star League era mechs.
The Lupus was also relegated to secondline forces or put into caches among at least the Adders, even though it was a Omni. The Lupus caused the Coyotes to retire Archers & Bombardiers (maybe into a cache? maybe eventually used for the Dragoons?) though it was later surpassed by more advanced Omni designs that saw it phased out even among its creators. How many were in use among the secondline forces of the Clans is open to question, but a significant enough portion were in caches among the Adders that it was used as a testbed for combat deployment of heavy lasers. It was enough that they refit over 100 Lupus from caches or serving in secondline forces- to me it makes more sense to refit from caches to issue than pull in Lupus still actually serving until the end.
So yeah, big Clans were able to store excess mechs . . . and did not feel the need to use them instead to expand their touman numbers- likely a factor of how many warriors the sibkos turned out to refresh the touman.
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We may find out when TRO: Golden Century comes out. It will update anything on Mech's you've mentioned.
I'm curious on designs we've not seen at all. I know there something there we've missed, just got dig deep enough.
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it was the Wolves who pulled old SLDF Highlanders out of their caches to rebuild them to Clan spec as IICs
The Lupus was also relegated to secondline forces or put into caches among at least the Adders, even though it was a Omni.
So, we do know for sure that the Clans *do* restock and make new caches at need. That is cool.
And the Highlander-thing was when I knew you could do anything in BT and make it work through FASAnomics, which is something I kinda love, even with the "HUH?!" aspect of it.
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Certain Clans . . . The five I mentioned I see having caches along with the SharkFoxes- on their part its more of a 'for sale' lot rather than real storage.
I would not expect the Cobras, Horses, Spirits, Scorpions, Mandrills or Ravens to have caches with mechs though the Ravens had naval caches that might have included ASF and Small Craft. Burrocks, Ice Hellions, Steel Vipers, Nova Cats, and others its up for grabs about their having caches.
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I'm pretty sure that all the Clans still possess Caches, at least did until the WoR, it's just that for some of them all the equipment dates back to the SL.
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Horses were mech-poor after the Bears took Tokasha which is what led them to embrace vehicles even more.
Spirits traded warships for Raven secondline/SL mechs, so either they had some stockpiled or they decommissioned ground forces to increase their warship count. Considering the fluff on the Clint IIC (sold after Revival to Invaders) I think you could make a case either way, though IMO the Spirits should have lots of Clints lol. The Spirits were not able to refit the Clusters damaged when they challenged the Adders during the Burrock Absorption, instead decommissioning the incomplete clusters b/c of their adherence to the rigid unit structures.
Cobras have reserve lists for ASF pilots at least, and that is their premier branch- they may do it for more than ASF, and if they had spare mechs its hard to imagine they would not trade them for more fighters.
Scorpions field at least Star League designs in their secondline units let alone their garrison. I think some frontline units have a chance for them (avoiding Always Faithful as a resource, it had problems with Scorpion mech use) . . . and if they have Star League designs in frontline or secondline units, hard to see them retiring any.
Mandrills? I would say the Mandrills b/c of the infighting among the Kindraa let alone fending off other Clans tend to churn through their mech inventories ahead of other Clans. They built a Omni with the help of allies (Crimson Langur) and in a rare move the Kindraa cooperated to build a standard mech (Predator) for all of them to use. A Kindraa started producing the Mandrill mech again after decades, as part of a unity drive.
Now I expect they would have caches of parts, maybe some retired SL armor, maybe some BA suits but I would not think very many intact mechs like the 100 or so Lupus the Adders put up.
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Just imagine all the useless stuff that you know will be there too. Crates of Thermal insulating boot small right, mislabeled as ammo anyone?
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I think the Pentagon worlds would have the 'biggest' caches even if they are empty. We get to see a bit of one with the Wolverines story and the Scorpion's Temple IIRC . . . but since they were built to the same sort of design as Star League Castle Brians then we should expect them to be buried deep.
And then you have to wonder if there was something like the New Dallas core set up in any of them . . .
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Just imagine all the useless stuff that you know will be there too. Crates of Thermal insulating boot small right, mislabeled as ammo anyone?
Water chips, GECKs, Self-sealing stembolts, portable structures with a hole in the fourth wall...
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Cans of creamed corn where it clearly states corned beef.
TT
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That's... just evil, even for you TT... ::)
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Cans of creamed corn where it clearly states corned beef deviled ham.
TT
Let's make sure we do that right.
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That's... just evil, even for you TT... ::)
Hey, I've been busy lately...
Evil just comes as a second nature to me...
TT
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Cans of creamed corn where it clearly states corned beef.
TT
You aren't supposed to eat that, you know? Creamed corn just exists as a warning to the other corn of what happens to kernels who step out of line. Something like what happened to the Order of Cincinnatus in canon.
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You aren't supposed to eat that, you know? Creamed corn just exists as a warning to the other corn of what happens to kernels who step out of line. Something like what happened to the Order of Cincinnatus in canon.
. . . you know its a Down Periscope joke?
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Ah, found something that hasn't been seen: The Awesome AWS-11H. But this depends on whether it exists: the XTRO Marik says "...rumored AWS-11H with three heavy PPCs".
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I'd call it close enough to count.
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Too bad they never made Record Sheet for it. Having triple Heavy PPC machine (aside from the Thug) of the Awesome would have been cool.
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Hopefully that one has the clan DHS too
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Can be made without Clan DHS though it is a bit tight fit and requires a 240-LFE or endo-composite. Coolant pods might help, and if it is late enough (despite being mentioned in Jihad-era product), the Radical Heat Sink is an option.
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Here one i found other night, i kept staring at until i realize there no mention in the fluff about it!
Clan Behemoth DropShip. It's TRO: 3057 Revised (and the original) opening section for Clan DropShips, but the ship itself was never included. However we know some stuff about it because of the picture. Yes it's picture of it too.
(https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=62767.0;attach=53547)
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Ah, found something that hasn't been seen: The Awesome AWS-11H. But this depends on whether it exists: the XTRO Marik says "...rumored AWS-11H with three heavy PPCs".
took a look at the xtro entry
"Technicron had hoped these ’Mechs would be available for future prototype configurations (such as the rumored AWS-11H with three heavy PPCs)," would indicate to me that the -11M chassis would potentially be a base for other variants... but on the other hand you have to strip two tons of something to make weight once you swap the weapons so the thing would have to be reworked anyway. Whatever the case, a production variant probably wouldn't have the clan dhs
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I would have like to have seen normal equipment on AWS-11H. But Alas it only actual rumor that's canon unless it pops up else where.
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. . . you know its a Down Periscope joke?
Oh, I know. I just had to make my own creamed corn joke, because I am a monster.
I would have like to have seen normal equipment on AWS-11H. But Alas it only actual rumor that's canon unless it pops up else where.
Fits the bill.
Here one i found other night, i kept staring at until i realize there no mention in the fluff about it!
Clan Behemoth DropShip. It's TRO: 3057 Revised (and the original) opening section for Clan DropShips, but the ship itself was never included. However we know some stuff about it because of the picture. Yes it's picture of it too.
(https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=62767.0;attach=53547)
I....actually made one of these myself for my TRO:3099 project...but yes. This fits nicely. You can get a non-trivial ammount of extra cargo by switching to DHS as well.
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I read somewhere that some of the Clans emptied out the last of their caches. I think it was after the Wolf/Falcon War but I don't remember for sure. It was in reference to Invading Clans though.
I would think the less successful Clans would have already done so. If they hadn't been emptied before the Reevings they would be after.
Also isn't extinct mostly for purchasing and repair purposes? As in you can't go down to the local Mech emporium and order an extinct unit. However that doesn't preclude, rare museum exibits, barn finds, periphery finds, miss labeled crates, etc. And if you some how obtained one keeping it running will be very difficult. Basically, as far as anyone knows its extinct but you really never know for sure.
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Yeah, "extinct" generally is understood to mean "there are at most only a handful of this particular mech left" rather than the mech being absolutely 100% nonexistent.
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No.
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=47774.msg1478770#msg1478770
Extinct means no KNOWN examples. You might find one in a cache or your dad’s garage but it has to be buried treasure that no one knew about
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Would the "Iron Cheetah" count as a 'Never-Seen'. I remember hearing of that apocryphal 'Mech over a decade ago.
BYE
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It’s a noncanon design
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=10808.0
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Ah, thanks for clearing that up. :thumbsup:
BYE
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No.
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=47774.msg1478770#msg1478770
Extinct means no KNOWN examples. You might find one in a cache or your dad’s garage but it has to be buried treasure that no one knew about
That's odd, given that designs like the Shogun have been declared extinct when there were known examples listed.
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I read somewhere that some of the Clans emptied out the last of their caches. I think it was after the Wolf/Falcon War but I don't remember for sure. It was in reference to Invading Clans though.
I would think the less successful Clans would have already done so. If they hadn't been emptied before the Reevings they would be after.
Also isn't extinct mostly for purchasing and repair purposes? As in you can't go down to the local Mech emporium and order an extinct unit. However that doesn't preclude, rare museum exibits, barn finds, periphery finds, miss labeled crates, etc. And if you some how obtained one keeping it running will be very difficult. Basically, as far as anyone knows its extinct but you really never know for sure.
Just speaking for myself. I am seriously doubting at this stage that the Clans either started with anything close to equal resource allocation or continued that way for long, with what they might have captured during the pentagon wars, captured after or absorbed. Some of them seem to have gotten VERY raw deals from the get-go.
I am pretty sure though that WOR laid out in print that most of the *known* caches were now mined out.It’s a noncanon design
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=10808.0
Which raises an interested question for this thread.
As I understand it; the rights for the Iron Cheetah AND the Falcon Eryie have returned to their creators...presumably the same is true with other Mech Force designs.
Many BattleTechnology designs have been retro/re-canonized...but is there even a WAY to do that with other once or semi-official material? My intention with this thread is to create a list of reasonable things we might possibly see in print, at need. If there is no way, then why bother?
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Spector-class areofighter, Tukayyid scenario book, PG.87 Pryde's Pride Scenario.
Description of Pryde's abilities against Comstar forces : Smoke from the dropship exhaust combined with Tukayyid's tainted atmosphere, his keen knack of predicting his enemies movement and his superior targeting computer along with Kael Pershaw in the fighter.
TT
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Think it is Specter nowadays:
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5104/specter-surveillance-plane-standard
Undescribed aircraft Kael Pershaw used while surveying the Tukayyid battle. Aidan Pryde commented something about Pershaw being a ghost.
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Also could be an early version of the Vandal E, just with the standard ER Smalls instead of Micros.
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Think it is Specter nowadays:
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5104/specter-surveillance-plane-standard
Undescribed aircraft Kael Pershaw used while surveying the Tukayyid battle. Aidan Pryde commented something about Pershaw being a ghost.
There speculation. That its a clan converted of the Mosquito surveillance plane. I'm not sure if i read that on the older forums or i am misremembering entry in the revised version of TRO:VA for the plane.
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TMp227 says "such as the Clan Spectre-class surveillance planes that reportedly overflew the battlefields on Tukayyid in 3052."
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It occurs to me that the Spectre might be done for Clan Watch and police work originally. And for finding bandits.
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Did "drawing board only" stuff count?
FM FedSuns mentions "Durendal-class" destroyer (i think that should be spelled Durandal) that exists only on drawing board at that time.
Indeed, it seems that FedSuns/FedCom lacks a destroyer, having Fox corvettes, Avalon cruisers, and Mjolnir Battlecruiser or Battleship or whatever.
Sorry if this got mentioned already.
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Just speaking for myself. I am seriously doubting at this stage that the Clans either started with anything close to equal resource allocation or continued that way for long, with what they might have captured during the pentagon wars, captured after or absorbed. Some of them seem to have gotten VERY raw deals from the get-go.
I am pretty sure though that WOR laid out in print that most of the *known* caches were now mined out.
I'm sure they didn't. They trialed over everything and some Clans were more successful than others. Some Clans also had more internal fighting than othets. All that leads a loss of material and a need for replacements. I'd be surprised if some Clans hadn't run their caches empty before the invasion.
I think WOR is where I read that.
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Did "drawing board only" stuff count?
FM FedSuns mentions "Durendal-class" destroyer (i think that should be spelled Durandal) that exists only on drawing board at that time.
Indeed, it seems that FedSuns/FedCom lacks a destroyer, having Fox corvettes, Avalon cruisers, and Mjolnir Battlecruiser or Battleship or whatever.
Sorry if this got mentioned already.
The Durandal was certainly Never-Seen, just like the Ventura-Class Light Cruiser that was sabotaged and blew up over Clipperton. CGL's relentless drive to suppress and banish warship type unit eventually from the game beyond the Jihad/Dark Age. I hate it myself.
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The infantry pod carrying Fire Moth prototype. With rules for the pods themselves.
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Did "drawing board only" stuff count?
FM FedSuns mentions "Durendal-class" destroyer ...
I think That one would yes.
The infantry pod carrying Fire Moth prototype. With rules for the pods themselves.
No, but yes; because I want those rules.
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Found another warship class: The Delavan-class Cruiser build by the Federated Suns. Found in the section about the orbital bombardment of Novaya Zemlya by the Capellans in the year 2399 in the House Davion (The Federated Suns) book from 1988. Two of them engaged the enemy but were destroyed by Capellan escort vessels.
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Pretty much everything mentioned in Turning Point: St. Ives.
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As I understand it; the rights for the Iron Cheetah AND the Falcon Eryie have returned to their creators...presumably the same is true with other Mech Force designs.
Probably not. Under most situations, the creator cedes all rights to the person using it.
Eg. CGL folds now, any material I ever contributed does not revert to me, ever.
It's entirely possible that MFNA wasn't professional enough to have such an agreement with contributors. But I wouldn't bet on it. The problems are finding who might control the rights now, but it's still not legal to use those things without permission from the (potentially legendary) rights-holder.
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Found another warship class: The Delavan-class Cruiser build by the Federated Suns. Found in the section about the orbital bombardment of Novaya Zemlya by the Capellans in the year 2399 in the House Davion (The Federated Suns) book from 1988. Two of them engaged the enemy but were destroyed by Capellan escort vessels.
Good one!!
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Pretty much everything mentioned in Turning Point: St. Ives.
But not the Orca, interestingly!
Do you have a list? I do not have that product.
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But not the Orca, interestingly!
Do you have a list? I do not have that product.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Third_League_Turning_Points:_Free_Taiw...St._Ives
It is free but it is not canon.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/100987/BattleTech-Third-League-Turning-Points-Free-TaiwSt-Ives?cPath=4328_4541
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Six of the 'Mechs have record sheets in that one.
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I don't see that anyone has mentioned the Defiance 'Zilla, which is referenced in the writeup for the WI-DM DemolitionMech in TR 3075. It's got an entry in the MUL, but all that gives us is the intro date.
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http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Third_League_Turning_Points:_Free_Taiw...St._Ives
It is free but it is not canon.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/100987/BattleTech-Third-League-Turning-Points-Free-TaiwSt-Ives?cPath=4328_4541
Darn. That's deliberate non-canon too. How could I forget that? I don't see that anyone has mentioned the Defiance 'Zilla, which is referenced in the writeup for the WI-DM DemolitionMech in TR 3075. It's got an entry in the MUL, but all that gives us is the intro date.
The 'Zilla is another demo mech?
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Darn. That's deliberate non-canon too. How could I forget that?
The 'Zilla is another demo mech?
Yes, it's a Defiance competitor to the Capellan's WI-DM DemolitionMech.
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Did you include any of the Red Corsair's companion mechs? They were supposed to be IS designs like garrison units get, refit with some Clan weapons- specifically mentioned was a Vindicator with a cERPP I think.
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That could almost work with SHS... ^-^
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Well . . . a Vindicator gets interesting . . . considering when it was written, while it would technically be feasible for the AFFC to have lost a VND-1SIC, it was described as a -1R. Give it a cERPPC & a cLRM5 and you get 2t free for SHS . . . pretty good throw weight for such a conversion.
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Exactly what I was saying! :)
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Did you include any of the Red Corsair's companion mechs? They were supposed to be IS designs like garrison units get, refit with some Clan weapons- specifically mentioned was a Vindicator with a cERPP I think.
I'm not sure to what extent I want to stat out the custom rides.
I think if someone will start me with a list of such units that have a credible mention, but no art/stats and little/no fluff; I would curate it with the rest here.
Ditto the New-Old-New-Old stuff.
Give me a starter list and I'll keep up with the suggested additions.
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Like the Marauder C, etc it would be a depot level action . . . like I said, they should have had a LOT of left over IS mechs. They were not all Atlas, Marauder, Warhammer, Shadow Hawk, Victor, Archer, Thunderbolt, Rifleman, etc that ended up being used as early filler.
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Did you include any of the Red Corsair's companion mechs? They were supposed to be IS designs like garrison units get, refit with some Clan weapons- specifically mentioned was a Vindicator with a cERPP I think.
If you go that route, there are hundreds of 'Mechs with artwork whose variants have no specific artwork.
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If you go that route, there are hundreds of 'Mechs with artwork whose variants have no specific artwork.
*I* definitely don't mean it like that; that would be more of a fan art project.
I think the...Games Unplugged?...I don't own them; but there were two issues which included art galleries for every variant then established for the Hunchback and Hatamoto-series.
What i am principally going for here with the Never-Seen is those units in BT which have been mentioned only rarely and probably not in great detail; but never statted out with a record sheet, limited, if any fluff.
Some of these will have no art at all; but my main goal here is to create an accounting and brain trust of the kinds of units that might go to fill XTROs and the handful of unit-entries in the back of new sourcebooks.
Like; wow. How cool would it be, if even as a photo-shopping we had someone going through the books and giving us representations of all the canon variants in art form?
Cool. But I don't so much need that as we once, needed at the time; stats for the Leviathan Jumpship. We have so few Jumpships in canon and the Leviathan kept coming up in odd references and sounded really neat from what we knew at the time. Now we have art, stats and fluff for the Leviathan JS and I think that's basically the ideal.
Something I added recently was a notation about the Dragoon's Ballistic-based Marauder II Variant mentioned in 3050 and attributed by the useless CASE in the wrong torso. We have art; we have fluff; we need stats. Headcanons aside.
So for a unique mech; we need stats and a record sheet. Maybe some fluff telling us how it came to be, even if only generally. For something like the Old-New-Old-New entries; we have art and fluff; we need full stats; at least a record sheet.
Some of this could be handled easily by the Devs if we had an official design program again; goodby record sheet docs, hello file-packs of various models that load and print from the program. Or I guess display on tablet for you non-luddites. But mainly, this is me kinda going to TPTB; hey! LOOK! You need something to fill five or so pages of that new book coming out? Here is a list of ideas, already established in canon, to one extent or another, once upon a time.
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If you go that route, there are hundreds of 'Mechs with artwork whose variants have no specific artwork.
Except it is not artwork, they are actually mentioned in the novel and we never got sheets for them . . . how long did it take to get a Red Corsair Battlemaster?
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Six of the 'Mechs have record sheets in that one.
But not the Urbanmech LAM :'(
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Except it is not artwork, they are actually mentioned in the novel and we never got sheets for them . . . how long did it take to get a Red Corsair Battlemaster?
I think natural selection was the first appearance in 1992 (or was it bred for war?) OTP: Red Corsair was 2010 so only like eighteen years :))
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But not the Urbanmech LAM :'(
Only way to get a Urbanmech LAM is to mount the Urbanmech as a nosecone warhead on a capital missile.
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Only way to get a Urbanmech LAM is to mount the Urbanmech as a nosecone warhead on a capital missile.
Someone years ago did a one-off Comic strip with a UrbanMech LAM, looked interesting. ;D
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Only way to get a Urbanmech LAM is to mount the Urbanmech as a nosecone warhead on a capital missile.
That would be interesting. :)
Someone years ago did a one-off Comic strip with a UrbanMech LAM, looked interesting. ;D
Ooh! Would love to see it! ;D
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That would be interesting. :)
Ooh! Would love to see it! ;D
(https://i.imgur.com/jgW4ITp.jpg)
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Ha! Beat me to it... I had to ask the person who posted it that many ears ago, glitterboy2098!
TT
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Now I want a quasit lam...
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Is the Quasit LAM steam-powered?
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They get recycled vegetable oil from Kyle, the barista with the manbun
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Which Kyle? Stash or Mutt chops... 8)
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(https://i.imgur.com/jgW4ITp.jpg)
I love it! ;D Thanks! :thumbsup:
Is the Quasit LAM steam-powered?
That would be fun! :)
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I don't see the No LL IntroTech Hussar on the list.
It was mentioned in 3025r IIRC.
Drops the LL for 2x ML & 3 tons of something (Armor?).
Not to be confused w/ the 350D that drops the engine to add 2x ML.
I'd still love to see a proper RS for that one.
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Isn't it basically a Hermes at that point?
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Darn. That's deliberate non-canon too. How could I forget that?
You say non-canon, but the little story would fit in perfectly well with what the blurbs in front of the new TROs reveal about the 3250 setting. I bet it becomes canon (well, not the details...).
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Lajos Adder- 12 ERML and jumps . . . so, light Nova?
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Only with even less heat dissipation.
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Yeah . . . 16t of pod space leaves 4t for JJ and DHS . . . so either jumping 4 or 6 means you get 2 or 1 extra DHS respectively. I mean, 8 sounds reasonable . . . still throwing out max of 56 damage- nothing to sneeze at against IS lights or meds- get the full 6 jumping and another 10 head dissipation. Run and fire it all will 'only' leave you with 12 overheat compared to . . .
Let's see, jumping 6 hexes and Alpha means . . . 66 heat, sinking 22 . . . so 44 overheat! But 84 damage . . . enough to end most other early Clan lights.
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Especially if you spent a round or two just firing 4 lasers beforehand. The only light mechs in existence that can take more than two Clan ER Medium Lasers to a single location have either Hardened or Reflective Armor, and those are rare to begin with and not era appropriate for this machine.
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Sounds like a death or glory machine.
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Sounds like a death or glory machine.
It kinda makes sense. The pilot was injured and in no shape to fight, he would have had to either end the fight quickly or accept he was going to lose. To a clan mindset, even dying in a laser rave blaze of glory trying to win would have been preferable to simply giving up.
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Isn't it basically a Hermes at that point?
Sans flamer
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Lajos Adder- 12 ERML and jumps . . . so, light Nova?
I would suggest rather that it was - or at least intended to be - a Nova but like several other units in the book, was simply given the wrong name.
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The Florence AmbulanceMech
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Florence
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According to Era Digest: Dark Age, during Gray Monday one unspecified class A HPG station was attacked by a squad of battle armor of a design never seen before. No further info though.
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Mobile HPG- supposedly used by not only ComStar and WoB, but also the Clans. I would suggest the Dragoons as well, since they had to report back some how, but I suspect that was done using a MHPG located on their resupply cache world and not one they hauled around.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hyperpulse_Generator
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Mobile HPG- supposedly used by not only ComStar and WoB, but also the Clans. I would suggest the Dragoons as well, since they had to report back some how, but I suspect that was done using a MHPG located on their resupply cache world and not one they hauled around.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hyperpulse_Generator
I can see Comstar and WoB using them after the Clan Invasion, especially during the Jihad. The Clans, I'm not sure about. Definitely on their jumpships and warships but I'm not sure about other units. I don't see it as tech they'd actively use, even though they have access to it. There's no honor in using it. I don't see the Dragoons using it off their ships either. It would attract way too much attention. Plus the range is too short. More likely the jumpships moved to a predesignated spot and then sent a transmission to a Wolf ship who then took the message back to the home worlds.
The Florence AmbulanceMech
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Florence
Now this I can totally see happening, especially as a Comstar plot. It's so them!
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I can see Comstar and WoB using them after the Clan Invasion, especially during the Jihad. The Clans, I'm not sure about. Definitely on their jumpships and warships but I'm not sure about other units. I don't see it as tech they'd actively use, even though they have access to it. There's no honor in using it. I don't see the Dragoons using it off their ships either. It would attract way too much attention. Plus the range is too short. More likely the jumpships moved to a predesignated spot and then sent a transmission to a Wolf ship who then took the message back to the home worlds.
IIRC, there is a mention - somewhere - that the Clans rolled out a number of Mobile HPGs during Operation Scorpion.
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The Society had a Septicemia variant with a HPG on it, but I don't quite understand how they weaponized it besides sending computer viruses.
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It provides a local ECM blackout...
TT
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The Society had a Septicemia variant with a HPG on it, but I don't quite understand how they weaponized it besides sending computer viruses.
You call in reinforcements, while giving the other guy a busy signal ;)
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A key plot point (such as it was) in the third MechAssault game was a bandit faction aligned with Hell's Horses, of all factions, trying to seize control of a defunct HPG so they could weaponize it along the lines of what was seen in the Null Set RPG adventure.
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A key plot point (such as it was) in the third MechAssault game was a bandit faction aligned with Hell's Horses, of all factions, trying to seize control of a defunct HPG so they could weaponize it along the lines of what was seen in the Null Set RPG adventure.
But TPTB have been trying hard to ignore this into obscurity since (a bit like the Tetatae), because it runs counter to everything we know about HPG technology and its working principles.
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There was a third Mechassault game?
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There was a third Mechassault game?
Well, sort of? MechWarrior: The Phantom War was released on the Nintendo DS before MS Games started shelving allot of their properties.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/MechAssault:_Phantom_War
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Came across another reference that I had forgotten.
The SLDF Jumping-Crusader that the Liao-3L model was based on per TRO3039 variants fluff.
I'm guessing it was something like the 2R but with LRM10's & JJ's but who knows.
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IIRC, there is a mention - somewhere - that the Clans rolled out a number of Mobile HPGs during Operation Scorpion.
What were they mounted on though?
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Likely mobile, not ground-mobile versions. So mounted on satellites (re-purposed relay satellites), WarShips, or the like.
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Beachhead1985, the TRO Legends Website (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=67707.0) post has a link out to an archive of a site with many of the same thing you're looking for here. It was last updated in 2000 so quite a few have been filled in, but there may be some you're missing.
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Likely mobile, not ground-mobile versions. So mounted on satellites (re-purposed relay satellites), WarShips, or the like.
That's what I would think. That means it's not mechwarriors having to operate them but techs.
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I don't see the No LL IntroTech Hussar on the list.
It was mentioned in 3025r IIRC.
Drops the LL for 2x ML & 3 tons of something (Armor?).
Not to be confused w/ the 350D that drops the engine to add 2x ML.
I'd still love to see a proper RS for that one.
Opened up my copy and cannot find that one. Were the MLs in the arms?
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I would suggest rather that it was - or at least intended to be - a Nova but like several other units in the book, was simply given the wrong name.
But it is doable as an Adder. I know what you're talking about and I'd have loved to see that book edited in a new release to fix those errors.
However; with that much waste heat; is it not a suicide machine? Literally?
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The Florence AmbulanceMech
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Florence
The German Novels come through again...
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According to Era Digest: Dark Age, during Gray Monday one unspecified class A HPG station was attacked by a squad of battle armor of a design never seen before. No further info though.
And the Gray Monday storyline was never completed, correct? As in; it's never been explained, has it?
I think we have TROs from since then; But I read 3145, 3150 and the add-on PDFs and none of those BA were mentioned as involved in the Gray Monday attacks. By extension; that might reveal key plot info like who was behind it.
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Mobile HPG- supposedly used by not only ComStar and WoB, but also the Clans. I would suggest the Dragoons as well, since they had to report back some how, but I suspect that was done using a MHPG located on their resupply cache world and not one they hauled around.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hyperpulse_Generator
Some gear basically demands a design built around it. Another is Cruise Missile Artillery; we have no bedrock, generic (wheeled?!) CM arty. I have made both as customs, but Mobile HPGs are mentioned so often that they almost must exist as distinct vehicles. I mean; you *could* carry them as cargo, but that is so much slower to bring in and out of action than a dedicated vehicle that it's nonsensical to not pay the piddling cost of a SV to carry them thing.
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Beachhead1985, the TRO Legends Website (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=67707.0) post has a link out to an archive of a site with many of the same thing you're looking for here. It was last updated in 2000 so quite a few have been filled in, but there may be some you're missing.
Do you have any idea how long I have been looking for this? Thank you.
Okay; I will add;
Florence AmbulanceMech
Gray Monday BA
Adder Lajos (and Phelan's even dumber Nova config, found on TRO: Legends)
Mobile HPG
Crusader; SLDF Jumping version (the same as had the Hawk Missile Systems, but otherwise similar to the 3L)
If I can get more info on the Hussar with the 2 MLs I will add that too.
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I challenge the "mobile HPG" - this is a piece of equipment and not a vehicle/unit. There is insufficient information to assume a regular vehicle for this, and given how rare and expensive HPGs are in the first place, I cannot imagine any standardized "HPG Carrier".
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Actually, I can see the SLDF spending money on a Mobile HPG carrier. They have the money to do it and militarily it makes sense. I'm sure the SLDF would have their own HPGs right there on the base. That way, they don't have to "go into town" to access the civilian HPG com site. By having mobile HPG carries, not only would the SLDF have back ups in case the main HPG went down but they'd be used when the troops are out in the field. That way they don't have to risk sending messages back to the base and them being intercepted.
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BT has a pretty firm Chekov's Gun; if it can be done, then it already has in the historical sense or it will be in a future release.
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SLDF mobile HPGs were likely mounted in regimental command DropShips rather than ground vehicles. We already know they were mounted on WarShips. Ground-mobile ones... maybe reserved for mobile HQs in Light horse regimental combat teams, or SAS groups?
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Well, the Society would later mount a HPG on a mech so the idea is not insane. It's hard to say considering how little vwe know about HPGs outside of ComStar's existing HPGs
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I challenge the "mobile HPG" - this is a piece of equipment and not a vehicle/unit. There is insufficient information to assume a regular vehicle for this, and given how rare and expensive HPGs are in the first place, I cannot imagine any standardized "HPG Carrier".
They would have needed something to house and transport a Mobile HPG and that might be a trailer or a specialised vehicle.
I would surmise such a unit would have had lower bandwidth and shorter range, maybe even in system only, but I don't see any reason to rule out a vehicle based trsnsport.
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Isn't mobile strictly in a Warship verses in like hidden base, and very small and removable? I remember Steel Vipers leaving in a base in the Periphery in a MechWarrior (non-dark age) novel. Ghost of Winter (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Ghost_of_Winter) by Stephen Kenson back in 99. Good lord, that's now 20 years ago!
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A " Mobile " HPG weighs in @ 12 tons.
So if you happen to have a power source and some empty weight space...
Saladin ( Clan ) - really? Any Saladin that has it's AC and ammo removed...
Maxim ( Infantry ) - again, as is but with a HPG... and another Maxim Infantry for the support troops...
Cobra VTOL ( Original ) - the 14 ton cargo space version, both the Clans and Inner Sphere would have these...
TT
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That's the ground-mobile one. The mobile HPG is 50 tons.
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A " Mobile " HPG weighs in @ 12 tons.
So if you happen to have a power source and some empty weight space...
Saladin ( Clan ) - really? Any Saladin that has it's AC and ammo removed...
Maxim ( Infantry ) - again, as is but with a HPG... and another Maxim Infantry for the support troops...
Cobra VTOL ( Original ) - the 14 ton cargo space version, both the Clans and Inner Sphere would have these...
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It seems pretty doable a few ways; the issue is that it's something the fluff seems to suggest very strongly *must* exist, but doesn't. Any of those could have an appropriate variant. But we don't have an official sheet.
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There was supposed to havee been a Shortlist armed a HPG during the Jihad.
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There was supposed to havee been a Shortlist armed a HPG during the Jihad.
Oh yeah! Apollyon's custom shootist with the HPG cannon, right?
And then someone else was said to have a mech-mounted Alamo launcher or some-such?
Never seen sheets for either; but again: custom rides.
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I would expect larger spacecraft and large naval ships, and mobile structures would have the 50 ton mobile HPG while others would use the 12 ton ground mobile HPG. What the ground mobile HPG is mounted in I think would vary. An infantry unit could have a special Mobile HQ or trailer. A mech unit could have a mech carrying it and so on. Thinking about it I don't know why a Headquarters Lance wouldn't have one mech with a Collapsible Command Module and another mech with a ground mobile HPG.
I can also see why we don't know of any examples. They'd be priority targets, they'd run out of parts and trained personnel fast once the Succession Wars got going, and Comstar would cover up knowledge of them.
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But it is doable as an Adder. I know what you're talking about and I'd have loved to see that book edited in a new release to fix those errors.
However; with that much waste heat; is it not a suicide machine? Literally?
It could have been a Pouncer config as that might make more sense . . . but written as a Adder. It would honestly be a design that lived for the advanced rule about dialing back or giving careful fire with a plan to run in, fire enough to generate some serious heat, and then jump away to heavy woods (or breaking LOS) to cool down- the Alpha button is what you punch when its do it or die.
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I would suspect that a 12 Ton Mobile Ground HPG would be for Regimental sized units or higher and mounted in a mobile HQ type unit (Probably paired with a second "Command HQ unit" and surrounded by at least a company of security-types.) and only have a range of "one system" (Meaning that it can send a message to an HPG in the closest system OR directly through the planetary HPG system without having to be dealt with by the ComStar folks at the compound which might still be in enemy territory.).
I would conversely be lead to believe the 50 tonner is too valuable to put on anything smaller than a Command Dropship where it would be protected by the ship's guns and could bypass the planetary net and send a message off much faster and further.
Additionally, I find the idea of a weaponized HPG amusing- suddenly the overwhelming onslaught of the WOB Warship is stopped cold by overwhelming the computer core by transmitting the entire historical catalog of every message that HPG Station has ever sent out.
"What do you mean you can't fire the guns Adept?"
"Well sir, every time I push the button to fire, I keep getting really bad poetry being sent to a publisher or Aunt Millie's recipe for peach cobbler- which might actually be worse than the Naval PPCs to be honest."
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It's hard to get a targeting solution when your systems have been flooded with seven zetabytes of erotic images.
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The weaponized HPG being used against a WarShip requires previous access to the ship's systems to install a virus (per Wars of Reaving) activated by, among other possibilities, a trigger hidden in an innocuous HPG message. Otherwise they could just turn off the ship mounted system.
I don't think they've ever established any differences between the two models, aside from the number of operators (10 vs. 1).
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I think and along with the Texas Class Battleship's invinicible shield during the Reaving was dropped and never detailed how it worked.
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It's hard to get a targeting solution when your systems have been flooded with seven zetabytes of erotic images.
It's like Spaceballs have infiltrated ... the known galaxy will never be the same.
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Was the Valiant Regal sportster mentioned? Handbook: House Davion pg 175
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Was the Valiant Regal sportster mentioned? Handbook: House Davion pg 175
Seems not! Added!
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Brush Wars Autocannon packing Thug.
(https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=62767.0;attach=55870)
Its Weird to me that artist though the Thug fired autocannons. If it was a retrofit, must be AC/10s right?
You certainly could do it if you reduced tonnage to 10.5 armor, 14 heat sinks, two ac/10s in arms and 2 mediums lasers.
In the League, i could see it happening due to shortage of PPCs....but why...desperation i guess. Armor more valuable on this thing.
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Nice find :thumbsup: Also note the SRM4 is the right torso.
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The two cannons look different to me in the picture... maybe one AC/10 and one AC/5? ???
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Looks more like what the Lyrans did with the Zeus to me, swapping the PPC for AC/5s, then downgrading the SRMs for some odd reason. Maybe it adds more armor or jump jets to compensate? Definitely lowers the heat burden. Could work as a refit for a unit short on energy weapons.
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Could replace just one PPC with an AC/5 or AC/10.
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Looks like an improvised repair job, everything about it looks to be in a bad state, even the armor plates look like poorly mounted second-hand plates.
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I can definitely shoe horn 2 AC/10s and two medium lasers in that thing. I use the newly revised Solaris skunkworks to see if it was possible.
Maybe Large Laser/PPC combo as well.
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I like it! Art stuff like this is a great way to add more Never-Seens and it also makes a ton of SW-Era sense.
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edit: posted comment on the wrong topic, sorry.
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never mind. Found it.
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Has previous versions of the Kirghiz OMNI Fighter been mentioned? The fluff says it'd undergone a series of design modifications, the biggest being the inclusion of the XL Engine.
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Has previous versions of the Kirghiz OMNI Fighter been mentioned? The fluff says it'd undergone a series of design modifications, the biggest being the inclusion of the XL Engine.
Oh, interesting.
Makes me wonder if 2874 is the introduction year of the XL engine variation, or if the earlier iterations perhaps weren't even Omni fighters.
Looks like a good candidate for the TRO Golden Century.
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So the Kirghiz we know and love is actually the Kirghiz II? :D
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Or the earlier version has a SFE, and in keeping with the current rules, the Omni-Smoke was not released when they went with a lighter engine to increase payload. Heck, maybe the C was in response to that . . . WOULD it be a 5t difference in engines?
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TR 3055U says "The fourth type of OmniFighter built, it has undergone several design modifications. The most radical was the addition of a more efficient XL-series engine, which provided considerably improved maneuverability."
I'm not sure if that means it was modified as compared to the other three prior OmniFighters, or modifications to itself. Either way, it means the Clans had an OmniFighter "considerably" slower than 5/8...
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I'm not sure if that means it was modified as compared to the other three prior OmniFighters, or modifications to itself.
IMO the text implies the latter clearly
I think the three OmniFighters in TP Tokasha may be using SFEs, but none are slow, the Goth being slowest at 5/8.
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The Gotha is the only canon aerospace fighter slower than a Kirghiz. (?)
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I love it! I'll add it.
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Looks like an improvised repair job, everything about it looks to be in a bad state, even the armor plates look like poorly mounted second-hand plates.
The two cannons look different to me in the picture... maybe one AC/10 and one AC/5? ???
To me it looks like a FWL pilot used a recovered Zeus autocannon to fix his ride.
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That could explain it, sure...
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Ok...how about this.
(https://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/thumb/6/60/1605.jpg/988px-8849mdmisik7m10hh0q09lx0fyplkvr.png?timestamp=20130504065413)
Natasha walking away from a 3-legged Mech, humaniod robots. Robots have appeared in the earlier MechWarrior RPG in text, but not in image. I don't think those ones on ground have been made. As for the Mech....i don't know. ;D Its a forgotten machine, maybe frankinmech
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Artist were still lifting art from Macross when Tales of the Black Widow Company came out so it wouldn't surprise that mech was modeled after a Battle Pod. Someone in the FB group pointed out a Mechs in the featured comic appears to be modeled after one of the machines from Southern Cross with no BT counterpart.
As for the robots: 'who cares, it looks cool' territory of the 80s.
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That machine has also apparently been stripped of its armor.
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Maybe the Black Widow had some Hedgehogs in her company? Another possible post-exodus treasure the Dragoons have? :D
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Artist were still lifting art from Macross when Tales of the Black Widow Company came out so it wouldn't surprise that mech was modeled after a Battle Pod. Someone in the FB group pointed out a Mechs in the featured comic appears to be modeled after one of the machines from Southern Cross with no BT counterpart.
I can go you one better then that. Periphery 1st Edition features one of the Southern Cross designs in an illustration
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Artist were still lifting art from Macross when Tales of the Black Widow Company came out so it wouldn't surprise that mech was modeled after a Battle Pod.
So... one of the Ost designs.
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Well a 3-legged Mech isn't quite a Macross anything though it may share slim like armored sections.
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Well a 3-legged Mech isn't quite a Macross anything though it may share slim like armored sections.
Thought that was two skinny legs and a nearly torn off arm *shrug* really hard to say what it is.
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Thought that was two skinny legs and a nearly torn off arm *shrug* really hard to say what it is.
(https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=62767.0;attach=56080)
This arrows to 3 legs. The There too long for arms. (Shrugs)
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I think I've found the pilot:
(https://www.christinadodd.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Christina_Dodd_CASTLES-IN-THE-AIR-arrows.jpeg)
(Image from the author's site: https://www.christinadodd.com/christina-dodd-and-the-infamous-three-armed-cover/ (https://www.christinadodd.com/christina-dodd-and-the-infamous-three-armed-cover/))
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Wha ... How ... She has 3 arms!!!!
This is why I stick with stick figures ... no pun intended!
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Sorry i was using my phone to try do the arrows xp
(https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=62767.0;attach=56082)
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One of those legs could be from a 'Mech which is on the ground....
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Or maybe it's a quad of some sort and one of the legs has been blown off?
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That patch of red is in a really inconvenient spot. Anyone know if 'clean' art or sketches are available from the original artist?
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Or maybe we don't need to identify everything made during a time when nothing was set in stone, and the artists didn't have an art director to put limits on what could be allowed to draw as part of the universe.
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One of those legs could be from a 'Mech which is on the ground....
Or being carried. Or salvaged.
Its difficult to tell because of the title placement but the unit in question seems to have two very long legs attached to a small body - and the "leg" in the middle/background is probably not part of the design.
More interesting is the bipedal security droid Nat appears to be walking over.
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Yeah, not going to argue which limb are which on a mech that only exist on one cover piece.
I'm guessing Nat is surrounded by shot up robots because a bunch of dead soldiers would be a little more ghoulish and a little less interesting visually.
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I'm guessing Nat is surrounded by shot up robots because a bunch of dead soldiers would be a little more ghoulish and a little less interesting visually.
Unless it's obvious it's all her fault?
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Why do I have this idea the person-sized ones are target droids for training? Bad memory? Was that ever a thing?
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Why do I have this idea the person-sized ones are target droids for training? Bad memory? Was that ever a thing?
Yes; in one of the early books; Warrior Trilogy, I think.
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Think one appears again in BoK trilogy. Never thought of it scene being of a training ground of sorts full of scapped parts makes allot of sense.
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I forget, were the original Clan battlesuits mentioned in this thread?
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Hmm not sure, i don't think it was.
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There was IIRC the Rhino and three others?
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There was IIRC the Rhino and three others?
nope, i checked TRO: 3058U and Record Sheets: Vehicle Annex, IndustrialMechs & Exoskeletons. Nothing mentioned anything about them.
I'm trying to remember where else they could have been mentioned or published.
I suspect if were possible to get reprieve, it be likely in TRO: Golden Century & whatever Record Sheet book (if not attached to the TRO which would be awesome.) since it's right time period for them to show up.
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There's a reference to environmental and mission-specific suits that predate the Elemental.
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Did we ever get the underwater mining suit the Elemental was based off of?
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I don't think so.
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Did we ever get the underwater mining suit the Elemental was based off of?
I think the Undine has some info about it, but not stats.
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Well, the Undine is also based off the originator and in some ways is closer due to its underwater use/operation . . . but it is still not. Heck, with TRO VA did we even get a underwater use power armor?
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If it works in space, it works underwater.
TT
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If it works in space, it works underwater.
TT
Maybe. It would depend on the seals (keeping air in vs keeping water out) and pressure from the water depth.
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Yeah . . . I was going to say for maybe the first 100 feet under water . . . but after that, when you start getting more than one atmo of pressure? Leaving aside movement, it would be easier to adapt a LA class sub to function in space than it would to put a Space Shuttle at the sub's operational depth.
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Space thrusters are most certainly not UMUs.
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Water rules state that BA can survive just fine so long as their life support holds out and they don't fall to crush depth, but unless the suits have UMUs they're so slow and clumsy underwater that they're not really useful.
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Yeah, had some fun when someone once tried to swarm a jumping mech within jump range of a depth 2 puddle. I am not even sure they stayed attached after the jump, but they were mission killed in that puddle either way.
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Well, Aerie are intended for space use and they only have the Extended Life support that stands out as being different the standard Battle Armor. Heck i remember Elemental Battle Armor did armed boarding on about one of the Kurita Navy's Warships in novel Test of Vengeance during the First Combine-Dominion War.
I am pretty sure that there hasn't been anything printed or mentioned yet about early Battle Armor. The Era Digest: Golden Century would have been closest things published to that time frame with units. All that stuff was mecha, single Aerospace fighter and stats for the the Warship, Mongoose QuickSilver, which is the only printed record sheet of a Du Shi Wang Warship I'm aware of.
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There's an illustration in an old FASA book of heavy aquatic suits in action which I suspect are meant to be the Elemental precursor suit. I forget which one it was, but I think it was the Clans: Warriors of Kerensky
Here's another one for the list; the TRO3058U description of the Gnome mentions an early Clan suit called the Rhino. All we know about it is that it's more akin to the Kanazuchi then anything else
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I knew I'd seen a Rhino Battle Armor suit mentioned somewhere.
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Why do I have this idea the person-sized ones are target droids for training? Bad memory? Was that ever a thing?
Yes; in one of the early books; Warrior Trilogy, I think.
Think one appears again in BoK trilogy. Never thought of it scene being of a training ground of sorts full of scapped parts makes allot of sense.
It was BOK trilogy.
It was also on Outreach coincidentally. 2nd book.
During the conference of all the Nobles & training that comes after.
We see Hanse & Teddy & Justin & maybe a 4th? are going through a Training Exercise infantry move/fire range.
As they are walking away a droid pops up & "malfunctions" after they have unloaded their weapons. Justin takes it out with his Wrist Laser.
The Range Master apologizes, but, they all wonder if it wasn't intentional to drive home the training & how serious the clans are.
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Also, think Jim Holloway just liked that scene as he used it at least one other time in the steam punk setting
https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/015/356/557/25b7d12429d027436f5c1ce7e5ffc645_original.jpg?ixlib=rb-2.1.0&w=680&fit=max&v=1485927913&auto=format&gif-q=50&q=92&s=d71bd47169e0acdd7a28fbf9d21961d2
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Also, think Jim Holloway just liked that scene as he used it at least one other time in the steam punk setting
https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/015/356/557/25b7d12429d027436f5c1ce7e5ffc645_original.jpg?ixlib=rb-2.1.0&w=680&fit=max&v=1485927913&auto=format&gif-q=50&q=92&s=d71bd47169e0acdd7a28fbf9d21961d2
Has to be Nat's alter ego. Even has the trademark black widow hourglass...
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Has to be Nat's alter ego. Even has the trademark black widow hourglass...
It was defiantly a nod to us Battletech fans :)
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Has to be Nat's alter ego. Even has the trademark black widow hourglass...
That's not an alter ego.
That's rare footage of Nat on vacation to Canopus.
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I shall add the Rhino and Evironmentally-specialized pre-Elemental BAs. Great suggestions!
Edit: Already had the Rhino, added the rest!
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If I can get more info on the Hussar with the 2 MLs I will add that too.
So I found my old thread in the Ask the Writers section.
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=944.0
Apparently I came across it in the fluff section of the Hussar in HMPro.
The text was mentioned as coming from TRO:3050-Revised.
Unfortunately I don't have that TRO to confirm it, Just 3050 1st Ed & 3050 Upgrade.
Maybe if someone has a 3050R they can confirm.
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Maybe if someone has a 3050R they can confirm.
Page 64, last paragraph...
The SLDF also created a variant of the Hussar that mounts two Maxell medium lasers and doubles the 'Mech's armor, giving it much-needed protection in closer-range combat situations.
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That's definitely worth passing to Paul, but I suspect the "new trumps old" paradigm will squash it.
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Unless they make a Republic variant that uses new tech based on the old... like re-engineered lasers and LFF armor...
TT
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Always a chance it will pop up in a Turning Point book (when we start seeing those again) with the exception of tptp deciding to publish more SW level stuff for the beginners box, I see most of the effort going towards post-Clan stuff.
Both TRO: GC and Il Clan have been in editorial limbo for some time know and the KS will gain allot of 3050+ attention. I'll be surprised if priorities go back to SW era.
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Well I was thinking it was no LL variation based on the sentence about "Armed with 2 ML"
That said it could be read to be "Additional 2 ML"
So I guess it could be an SLDF version of the 350D that still has ERLL, DHS, & FFA on it. (2.5 tons is "almost" double the 1.5 tons, lol)
It could also be a 2nd version of the Royal using an XL but swapping out armor for 2 more MLs since it was only "Double the Armor"
Personally I've always liked the idea of just 2 ML like the sentence says. Double Armor & Add ECM, or, Triple it & call it a typo that was meaning "Add Double to the Single for Triple".
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There are a number of variants that exist in the weird limbo of existing but not having a sheet. We got some of those unexpectedly in TP Tokasha so anything’s possible
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Isn't that the raison d'etre of this thread? ???
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The Hussar variant could appear in TRO:GC as a Second Line Clan Mech since they still use SLDF Mechs.
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The Hussar variant could appear in TRO:GC as a Second Line Clan Mech since they still use SLDF Mechs.
It could, but there are dozens of original Clan designs that could be added rather than a SL era refit.
The Hussar in questions mounts an additional 1.5 Tons of armour and two medium lasers, with 1.5 tons unaccounted for, assuming the ERLL is dropped.
There are already more than enough named new Clan units to fill in the blanks, so unless GC is expanded, some of those ill need to be left out as it is. So I doubt a Hussar will be added to TRO GC if it ever appears
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if it does appear, it will probably be in unheralded in some RS book and only a few people will catch the inclusion
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I'm sure whoever does catch it will post it here...
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and then we will celebrate the ascension of another never-seen off the list
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Indeed! :thumbsup:
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It could, but there are dozens of original Clan designs that could be added rather than a SL era refit.
The Hussar in questions mounts an additional 1.5 Tons of armour and two medium lasers, with 1.5 tons unaccounted for, assuming the ERLL is dropped.
There are already more than enough named new Clan units to fill in the blanks, so unless GC is expanded, some of those ill need to be left out as it is. So I doubt a Hussar will be added to TRO GC if it ever appears
True it probably won't but there's always a chance. There could also be a volume 2? Between SLDF, SLDFinExile, Pentagon Powers, and the Clans there should be enough units for a series of TROs. I won't hold my breath but there could be. But like Sartris said, it'd probably just be a RS someplace.
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There are a number of variants that exist in the weird limbo of existing but not having a sheet. We got some of those unexpectedly in TP Tokasha so anything’s possible
Isn't that the raison d'etre of this thread? ???
Indeed it is! And as we have the basic attribution for the Hussar; I will add it to the list, as I said I would!
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That's not an alter ego.
That's rare footage of Nat on vacation to Canopus.
Must have been a funtime 8)
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Was the Pikeman ever included? It was the design the Patriot was based off of when Cameron-Jones tapped a Regulan factory to make a new 'command' mech which turned out to be the PKM-2C. The -2D was supposed to more closely resemble the original design but by phrasing IMO clearly is not the original design.
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Going by the fluff text, they simply changed the name to Patriot during development. The original Pikeman seem to have never left the drawing board.
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The -2C was altered, the -2D production was designed more closely to the original concept . . . my best guess is the alteration had to do with the electronics and the cannon that became the A4 launcher. So something is off but its perhaps a minor change.
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Dust Rat- Wolf's Dragoons six-wheeled recon vehicle from pgs 346-347 of Wolf Pack
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Has the solar shade for Venus ever been given art? How about the shipyards at Titan? Or the mobile 'atolls' on Dagda?
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Was the machine gun UrbanMech mentioned?
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The -2C was altered, the -2D production was designed more closely to the original concept . . . my best guess is the alteration had to do with the electronics and the cannon that became the A4 launcher. So something is off but its perhaps a minor change.
So; did they ever build any? Even as a prototype?
Dust Rat- Wolf's Dragoons six-wheeled recon vehicle from pgs 346-347 of Wolf Pack
Textbook. Yes. Will add!
Has the solar shade for Venus ever been given art? How about the shipyards at Titan? Or the mobile 'atolls' on Dagda?
None of those.
I think something might have been said of the sunshield at some point in time; like maybe it was a one-off unique-tech item that could never be replicated and broke the rules...but...xtros...so; yes will add.
The shipyards though; i think like the Galax yard; those are specifically noted as complexes composed of multiple smaller generic stations. Could be wrong though. I'll hold off on that one.
I like those Atolls though; kinda floating versions of the airship cities mentioned in the flavour text of one of the rule books. Come to think of it...did we ever see stats for those? The floating Islands?
Was the machine gun UrbanMech mentioned?
That's the one mentioned in the fluff of 3025 and 3050, right? I recall in 3050; the MG is removed for the SPL and I think 3025 just mentions it being there, but never stats it?
That's perfect and a really easy mod too.
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Where is the MG Urbie mentioned? Never heard of it.
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That's the one mentioned in the fluff of 3025 and 3050, right? I recall in 3050; the MG is removed for the SPL and I think 3025 just mentions it being there, but never stats it?
That's perfect and a really easy mod too.
Where is the MG Urbie mentioned? Never heard of it.
It's in TRO:3050R. Possibly some editions of TRO:3050? The fluff says its a Capellan variant and a center torso MG is replaced with a SPL. It seems to be a step between the R60 and the R63.
TRO:3025 had a AC/20 UrbanMech and the Armless UrbanMech. There's RS for the AC/20 variant. I'm not sure about the Armless. I've never seen a RS for it. I'm not even sure it's legal.
Were the Hermes and Hermes II prototype mentioned?
The Hermes II prototype has an AC/5 in the center torso? Also the fluff for the Hermes and Hermes II has them both using a Vehicle Flamer. All the RS I've seen have them using Mech Flamers. I don't know about the fluff's putting heat sinks in the legs. :-\ Currant rules have them all in the engine.
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I remember the Hermes II fluff mentioning the heat sink wings on the legs swung around to avoid being snapped off in case of falls, and that the autocannon was split locations for the CT mount.
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I don't think either of those was a prototype or different version issue.
I think it was just fluff not matching rules which we see in more than one occasion from 3025.
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I don't think either of those was a prototype or different version issue.
I think it was just fluff not matching rules which we see in more than one occasion from 3025.
TRO:3025 says early versions have the autocannon in the center torso with wiring and controls spread out in the side torsos so any hit to the torso would knock out the AC. TROs: 3039 and Succession Wars have it being a prototype AC being spread across the torso. Either way the AC would be spread through each torso location.
Both the later TROs also have the wings being intended to be heat sinks but no longer as the one heat sink was moved. So I guess that covers the wings and the change in the rules. Too bad though. Being able to put the heat sinks in the legs, instead of the engine, would give those mechs an advantage in water.
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Where is the 1 out of engine heatsink located?
Is it not in the leg?
I know its not both but that's been an issue since what 2nd Edition when they moved them into the engine?
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They're in the engine. The only HS that aren't are those that are left after dividing the engine rating by 25. The Hermes has a 270 rated engine so all 10 heat sinks fit in the engine. The Hermes II has a 280 rated engine so all 11 heat sinks fit in the engine. The Scorpion, also fluffed to have special heat sinks in the legs, has a 330 rated engine so all 10 fit in side it.
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The Hermes-II with the AC has a 240 rated engine & has a HS outside of it.
The 280 rated engine is on the Dark Shadows "Mercury" variant, which doesn't have an AC on it so isn't what we were talking about.
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The Hermes-II with the AC has a 240 rated engine & has a HS outside of it.
The heat sink is in the left torso.
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The Hermes-II with the AC has a 240 rated engine & has a HS outside of it.
The 280 rated engine is on the Dark Shadows "Mercury" variant, which doesn't have an AC on it so isn't what we were talking about.
The heat sink is in the left torso.
:facepalm:
D'OH!!!
Must of looked at the wrong RS.
You guys are right it's in the left torso. Still not the legs like the fluff but I guess that was explained away with a retcon. Too bad. :(
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Just ran across this one, and I will have to go home to try it in HMP.
Colonel Gray of the 20th Arcturan during the JF Incursion altered Barghests in her command, replaced both ERLL with Clan Gauss Rifles. On her Barghest at least, she also replaced the UAC with a SRM rack, at least a 4 but probably a 6?
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Were the Hermes and Hermes II prototype mentioned?
The Hermes II prototype has an AC/5 in the center torso? Also the fluff for the Hermes and Hermes II has them both using a Vehicle Flamer. All the RS I've seen have them using Mech Flamers. I don't know about the fluff's putting heat sinks in the legs. :-\ Currant rules have them all in the engine.
Well; for the CT AC; we need custom equipment; weapons smaller than 9/10 Crits that can be split. AFAIK; that isn't possible right now in any canon sense. Although TRO: Legends; the fan website had a fan TRO of it.
Misapprehension of what a flamer was seems to have been common in early writing; IIRC the Firestarter's flamers are described in a similar way and it is famously modeled as having the bulbous shoulder tanks. You are correct in how the Hermes/II is described, however.
In my customs; when I mount additional HS; they go in the legs for that reason.
What really confuses people is that Stackpole so prominently describes an arena fight against a Hermes II in the Warrior Trilogy where the flamer is explicitly described as leaking napalm from it's fuel tanks. IIRC; said antagonist is shortly immolated after Justin Xaing fails to convince him to give up and save himself before it explodes. Classic fiction trope, that.
I mean; you sure *could* do a Hermes/II with a vehicle flamer, just for fluff reasons and I'll add that as-per. But there is no reason to build it that way, except for flavour. I'll do the CT AC as well, although you'd need new rules or custom kit to make it happen. I think crit-splitting has variously come up before for it's advantages in certain highly-optimized builds.Just ran across this one, and I will have to go home to try it in HMP.
Colonel Gray of the 20th Arcturan during the JF Incursion altered Barghests in her command, replaced both ERLL with Clan Gauss Rifles. On her Barghest at least, she also replaced the UAC with a SRM rack, at least a 4 but probably a 6?
Now that's a funny one. Modding the unit Barghests in that way, certainly qualifies; it's not unique: It's a unit SOP. Kind-of like how the Gray Death Legion has a thing against Hatchetmen and so all but one have the hatchet removed for...IIRC extra armour.
She swapped a UAC/20...for an SRM rack? Certainly, but and what else? Interesting. I'm basically convinced; we need a paralelle custom rides thread as well for the unique, but un-stated one-offs used by prominent characters and scenario NPCs.
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Like I said, when I get home I will HMP it, but they had their IS ERLLs replaced by Clan Gauss Rifles and the way it was worded was at least her Barghest had the UAC replaced by a SRM rack . . . and since two missed but the rest peppered a Falcon mech it was at least a 4 or 6.
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Did the Blakist variant of the Lich get mentioned?
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The Blakist "Lich" assault drone quad is separate from the Warhammer X7 "The Lich". Both are documented.
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Mean the drone quad indeed, didn't even recall there's a Warhammer "Lich" variant.
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XTRO: Gladiators. the -10CT became the production model that carried fewer bells and whistles.
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Just ran across this one, and I will have to go home to try it in HMP.
Colonel Gray of the 20th Arcturan during the JF Incursion altered Barghests in her command, replaced both ERLL with Clan Gauss Rifles. On her Barghest at least, she also replaced the UAC with a SRM rack, at least a 4 but probably a 6?
Which book is that?
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Operation Audacity, Archer was stacking the deck in his Trial of Possession against the Falcon Guards by cherry-picking warriors and then slapping on Clan weapons to give them a edge. Gray throws a gauss round and some SRMs at Ravill Pryde before Archer kills him.
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Well; for the CT AC; we need custom equipment; weapons smaller than 9/10 Crits that can be split. AFAIK; that isn't possible right now in any canon sense. Although TRO: Legends; the fan website had a fan TRO of it.
Misapprehension of what a flamer was seems to have been common in early writing; IIRC the Firestarter's flamers are described in a similar way and it is famously modeled as having the bulbous shoulder tanks. You are correct in how the Hermes/II is described, however.
In my customs; when I mount additional HS; they go in the legs for that reason.
What really confuses people is that Stackpole so prominently describes an arena fight against a Hermes II in the Warrior Trilogy where the flamer is explicitly described as leaking napalm from it's fuel tanks. IIRC; said antagonist is shortly immolated after Justin Xaing fails to convince him to give up and save himself before it explodes. Classic fiction trope, that.
I mean; you sure *could* do a Hermes/II with a vehicle flamer, just for fluff reasons and I'll add that as-per. But there is no reason to build it that way, except for flavour. I'll do the CT AC as well, although you'd need new rules or custom kit to make it happen. I think crit-splitting has variously come up before for it's advantages in certain highly-optimized builds.
I think the Illegal Quirk would work for the early Hermes II's CT AC. The rules only allow splitting between two locations and its AC is split between all three torso locations. The fluff says that any hit to the torso could knock it out. It also says they went with a more conservative arrangement with the AC built into the Left Arm. ??? I guess the writer didn't use the picture or stats when writing the fluff.
Yeah, I don't know why the writer went a vehicle flamer although it sounds cool and the art does look like the ammo could be jettisoned making it safer. Of course the ammo taking up more space causes an issue. Although the Olympian Flamer is supposed to be an older design so I suppose we could adapt the Primitive/Prototype rules for it. That would make it even less efficient in starting fires though. I suppose again it'd be a safety thing but I imagine that most Hermes get customized with a regular mech flamer.
You're right about the Firestarter. It does look like it has vehicle flamers too. It wouldn't be too hard to make one with vehicle flamers but then it's usefulness gets limited. Maybe the art is for a prototype or its just cosmetic to make it look more menacing? :-\
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My own head canon has always been that arm mounted flamers were vehicle (chemical) flamers, while torso mounted flamers were plasma from the reactor. Meant you did not have to build plasma ducting all the way down the arms.
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You're right about the Firestarter. It does look like it has vehicle flamers too. It wouldn't be too hard to make one with vehicle flamers but then it's usefulness gets limited. Maybe the art is for a prototype or its just cosmetic to make it look more menacing? :-\
There are accounts that describe the Firestarter's flamers as operating like vehicle flamers complete with tanks of napalm, which served as a weak point to exploit.
There's also one account where the Firestarter was modified to carry vehicle flamers instead of standard plasma flamers. It specifically mentions the tanks of coolant (that's what those tanks on the arms are supposed to be apparently) being replaced with tanks of napalm. Again, serving as an exploitable weak point.
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There as a scene in Heir to the Dragon where a FedSuns Firestarter got critted in the napalm tank with predictable results, IIRC.
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I'll have to go read Heir to the Dragon again.
Mounting vehicle flamers in the arms does make sense. So does the Firestarter carrying coolant. Being able to change ammo not only gives the Firestarter more flexibility and increases the market beyond the military.
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I would assume that early writers figured that flamers were simplified for gameplay and treated them as realistic flamers for fluff purposes.
I reckon that vehicle flamer is a newer invention for BT rules.
HBS Battletech had pretty elegant solution by making flamer have ammo but made ammo integral to the weapon.
I've never liked BT flamers, fusion reactors don't have enough plasma to be used for spraying enemies.
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pretty sure vehicle flamers date TRO: 3026
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pretty sure vehicle flamers date TRO: 3026
...
bah.
Still, writers probably treated flamers as flamers, not as weird-ass reactor vents.
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Just figured Flamers worked in a similar way as Jump Jets.
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Exactly... the plasma the flamers project isn't actually the plasma fusing in the reactor... It's merely heated by the plasma that's fusing...
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I think the Illegal Quirk would work for the early Hermes II's CT AC. The rules only allow splitting between two locations and its AC is split between all three torso locations. The fluff says that any hit to the torso could knock it out. It also says they went with a more conservative arrangement with the AC built into the Left Arm. ??? I guess the writer didn't use the picture or stats when writing the fluff.
Yeah, I don't know why the writer went a vehicle flamer although it sounds cool and the art does look like the ammo could be jettisoned making it safer. Of course the ammo taking up more space causes an issue. Although the Olympian Flamer is supposed to be an older design so I suppose we could adapt the Primitive/Prototype rules for it. That would make it even less efficient in starting fires though. I suppose again it'd be a safety thing but I imagine that most Hermes get customized with a regular mech flamer.
You're right about the Firestarter. It does look like it has vehicle flamers too. It wouldn't be too hard to make one with vehicle flamers but then it's usefulness gets limited. Maybe the art is for a prototype or its just cosmetic to make it look more menacing? :-\
At some point; you have to draw the line; I take it that a great many of the writers have had more or less casual relationships with the rules and canon.
They are also human and typos happen.
Some things (Hermes vehicle flamer) make a degree of sense to have a variant; but at some point you just have to figure that something was written late on a friday night before the deadline. A key fact slipped someone's mind. They didn't care all that much; or it was written in the days before fact-checking.
Although; credit where it is due: I do notice MANY more spelling and grammatical errors in newer books of all kinds from all publishers than, say; the 30-year old "Machines that Kill" Paperback anthology I am reading right now.
We've also got a number of what are obviously simply casual screw-ups and miscommunications in the canon; the Falconer being based on the Orion Chassis is one; the Hatamoto-Chi being a literal Thug copy is another. Misplaced weapons in various mechs and this is without going into the art oopsies over the years.
I am going to add that Hermess II AC in the arm version because it makes a great deal of sense; if they messed with it in a weird Torso mount; they might well try an arm mount as well.I would assume that early writers figured that flamers were simplified for gameplay and treated them as realistic flamers for fluff purposes.
I reckon that vehicle flamer is a newer invention for BT rules.
HBS Battletech had pretty elegant solution by making flamer have ammo but made ammo integral to the weapon.
I've never liked BT flamers, fusion reactors don't have enough plasma to be used for spraying enemies.
You may be right in the first instance, but I think that Vehicle Flamers were likely in place by the time they decided to have more than one autocannon.
They don't have enough of anything to explain Jump Jets, either; at least the theoretical Fusion engines our science talks about. Likewise; whatever the Plasma in Star Trek and Star Wars and 40K is; it is not much like the Plasma we know in our science. Our lasers also do not transfer heat.
Having seen what the death of catgirls has wrought; I am disinclined to contribute to it further.
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You may be right in the first instance, but I think that Vehicle Flamers were likely in place by the time they decided to have more than one autocannon.
I'm not so sure about that.
2nd Edition had multiple AC & did not have Vee-Flamers, IIRC.
I want to say the actual Vee-Flamer didn't show up till BMR.
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One of the BattleCorps fiction pieces set during the liberation of Terra at the end of the Jihad featured a Blakist Pike described as firing triple PPC blasts. While it might just have been the author mistaking the Pike for a Burke or Schrek, it might also have been a Blakist Pike variant.
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I want to say the actual Vee-Flamer didn't show up till BMR.
They can be found in the Battletech Compendium, but not the prior rules compilation called the Rules of Warfare. I suspect this means they would have first appeared in citytech 2nd edition.
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At some point; you have to draw the line; I take it that a great many of the writers have had more or less casual relationships with the rules and canon.
They are also human and typos happen.
Some things (Hermes vehicle flamer) make a degree of sense to have a variant; but at some point you just have to figure that something was written late on a friday night before the deadline. A key fact slipped someone's mind. They didn't care all that much; or it was written in the days before fact-checking.
Although; credit where it is due: I do notice MANY more spelling and grammatical errors in newer books of all kinds from all publishers than, say; the 30-year old "Machines that Kill" Paperback anthology I am reading right now.
We've also got a number of what are obviously simply casual screw-ups and miscommunications in the canon; the Falconer being based on the Orion Chassis is one; the Hatamoto-Chi being a literal Thug copy is another. Misplaced weapons in various mechs and this is without going into the art oopsies over the years.
I am going to add that Hermess II AC in the arm version because it makes a great deal of sense; if they messed with it in a weird Torso mount; they might
I do understand that all kinds of things happen and that art and writing won't always match rules for all kinds of reasons. That's why I didn't bring up the Hermes II Communications System which the fluff has strung throughout the entire body. Vehicle Flamer descriptions where there's Mech Flamers is pretty easy to deal with in comparison.
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i did a little research on the vehicle flamer before CityTech 2nd Ed (where it is in the equipment table)
i had thought i remembered it in 3026. where i actually remembered it from was in TRO: 3025 Revised on the stock Coolant Truck. my next thought was that the Puma has one. well, it does now. in TRO: 2750 it had an energy flamer. the earliest unit i could find in a TRO was the original 3058 on the Centipede, which was published in the same year as CityTech 2E.
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One of the BattleCorps fiction pieces set during the liberation of Terra at the end of the Jihad featured a Blakist Pike described as firing triple PPC blasts. While it might just have been the author mistaking the Pike for a Burke or Schrek, it might also have been a Blakist Pike variant.
I have that one in my custom rides thread now. I have not read the story, but the context as I understood it was that it was a custom design; a one-off. Is that not the case?
i did a little research on the vehicle flamer before CityTech 2nd Ed (where it is in the equipment table)
i had thought i remembered it in 3026. where i actually remembered it from was in TRO: 3025 Revised on the stock Coolant Truck. my next thought was that the Puma has one. well, it does now. in TRO: 2750 it had an energy flamer. the earliest unit i could find in a TRO was the original 3058 on the Centipede, which was published in the same year as CityTech 2E.
This is very interesting. I am going to put up a thread in the Ask TPTB section.
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They can be found in the Battletech Compendium, but not the prior rules compilation called the Rules of Warfare. I suspect this means they would have first appeared in citytech 2nd edition.
the vees in CityTech 2E (Condor, Vedette, Hetzer, Demolisher) don't mount a vehicle flamer so the Centipede still is the first example i can find of it being used in canon
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I have that one in my custom rides thread now. I have not read the story, but the context as I understood it was that it was a custom design; a one-off. Is that not the case?
No details on the Pike's backstory were given. Just a note that a Lyran MechWarrior was taking PPC fire from a Blakist Pike during a battle. It wasn't noted as being out of the ordinary, leading me to suspect at the time that the author picked one triple-barreled tank to use in the story and mistook it for another one.
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apologies, but Obsessive Nerd Mode™ has been activated. the usage of the vehicle flamer is actually very sparse, easily the least-used non-advanced weapon in the game (32 instances since 1990). The centipede remains the first appearance in terms of real-world chronology to my knowledge
I've annotated the appearance of each by the year of the product in which they were introduced
Unit Intro Product Year
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Asher Hover Scout (Standard) 2298 XTRO: Primitves V 2016
Ymir BWP-X1 2462 XTRO: Primitves V 2016
Ignis Infantry Support Tank (Standard) 2512 TRO: 3075 2008
Engineering Vehicle (Flamer) 2570 RS: 3039u 2008
Coolant Truck 135-K 2583 RS Vol 5: Vehicles 1992 *The TRO: 3025 entry mounted standard flamers
Coolant Truck (Tracked) 2592 RS: 3039u 2008
Coolant Truck (Hover) 2602 RS: 3039u 2008
Puma Assault Tank PAT-005 2681 TRO: 3050r 1996 *The TRO: 2750 entry mounted a standard flamer
Puma Assault Tank PAT-001 2650 RS: 3050Uu 2011
Puma Assault Tank PAT-002 2657 RS: 3050Uu 2011
Ignis Infantry Support Tank (SRM) 2751 RS: 3075u 2010
Puma Assault Tank PAT-005b 2751 RS: 3075u 2010
J. Edgar Light Hover Tank (Flamer) 2793 RS: 3025 1996
Crosscut ED-X2M LoggerMech MOD 2801 RS: VA 2014
Crosscut ED-X2 (Flamer) 2810 RS: OP Klondike 2010
Rhino Fire Support Tank (Flamer) 2835 RS: 3050Uu 2011
Harasser Missile Platform (Flamer) 2851 RS: 3039u 2008
Behemoth Heavy Tank (Flamer) 2981 RS: 3025 1996
Grommet D90 MilitiaMech (Standard) 3000 RS: VA 2014
Condor Heavy Hover Tank (Fission) 3014 XTRO: SW 2012
Condor Heavy Hover Tank (Flamer) 3025 RS: 3039u 2008
Axel Heavy Tank Mk 2 3036 RS: 3039u 2008
Centipede Scout Car (Standard) 3054 TRO: 3058 1995
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The DI Schmitt's TarComp version uses vFlamers as well. As does the Pixiu tank. Think there might be few more Dark Age vehicles that do that.
But all in all, yeah, vehicle flamer is rare.
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apologies, but Obsessive Nerd Mode™ has been activated. the usage of the vehicle flamer is actually very sparse, easily the least-used non-advanced weapon in the game (32 instances since 1990). The centipede remains the first appearance in terms of real-world chronology to my knowledge
I've annotated the appearance of each by the year of the product in which they were introduced
Unit Intro Product Year
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Asher Hover Scout (Standard) 2298 XTRO: Primitves V 2016
Ymir BWP-X1 2462 XTRO: Primitves V 2016
Ignis Infantry Support Tank (Standard) 2512 TRO: 3075 2008
Engineering Vehicle (Flamer) 2570 RS: 3039u 2008
Coolant Truck 135-K 2583 TRO: 3025r 1996 *The TRO: 3025 entry mounted standard flamers
Coolant Truck (Tracked) 2592 RS: 3039u 2008
Coolant Truck (Hover) 2602 RS: 3039u 2008
Puma Assault Tank PAT-005 2681 TRO: 3050r 1996 *The TRO: 2750 entry mounted a standard flamer
Puma Assault Tank PAT-001 2650 RS: 3050Uu 2011
Puma Assault Tank PAT-002 2657 RS: 3050Uu 2011
Ignis Infantry Support Tank (SRM) 2751 RS: 3075u 2010
Puma Assault Tank PAT-005b 2751 RS: 3075u 2010
J. Edgar Light Hover Tank (Flamer) 2793 RS: 3025 1996
Crosscut ED-X2M LoggerMech MOD 2801 RS: VA 2014
Crosscut ED-X2 (Flamer) 2810 RS: OP Klondike 2010
Rhino Fire Support Tank (Flamer) 2835 RS: 3050Uu 2011
Harasser Missile Platform (Flamer) 2851 RS: 3039u 2008
Behemoth Heavy Tank (Flamer) 2981 RS: 3025 1996
Grommet D90 MilitiaMech (Standard) 3000 RS: VA 2014
Condor Heavy Hover Tank (Fission) 3014 XTRO: SW 2012
Condor Heavy Hover Tank (Flamer) 3025 RS: 3039u 2008
Axel Heavy Tank Mk 2 3036 RS: 3039u 2008
Centipede Scout Car (Standard) 3054 TRO: 3058 1995
Excellent nerding! Thanks. :thumbsup: :beer:
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The DI Schmitt's TarComp version uses vFlamers as well. As does the Pixiu tank. Think there might be few more Dark Age vehicles that do that.
But all in all, yeah, vehicle flamer is rare.
i cut off at the centipede. there are a few DA vees like the ones you mentioned as well as the demon tank (about ten total post-3067)
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No details on the Pike's backstory were given. Just a note that a Lyran MechWarrior was taking PPC fire from a Blakist Pike during a battle. It wasn't noted as being out of the ordinary, leading me to suspect at the time that the author picked one triple-barreled tank to use in the story and mistook it for another one.
Well shoot, not that like doesn't happen with fair frequency.
apologies, but Obsessive Nerd Mode™ has been activated. the usage of the vehicle flamer is actually very sparse, easily the least-used non-advanced weapon in the game (32 instances since 1990). The centipede remains the first appearance in terms of real-world chronology to my knowledge
I've annotated the appearance of each by the year of the product in which they were introduced
Unit Intro Product Year
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Asher Hover Scout (Standard) 2298 XTRO: Primitves V 2016
Ymir BWP-X1 2462 XTRO: Primitves V 2016
Ignis Infantry Support Tank (Standard) 2512 TRO: 3075 2008
Engineering Vehicle (Flamer) 2570 RS: 3039u 2008
Coolant Truck 135-K 2583 TRO: 3025r 1996 *The TRO: 3025 entry mounted standard flamers
Coolant Truck (Tracked) 2592 RS: 3039u 2008
Coolant Truck (Hover) 2602 RS: 3039u 2008
Puma Assault Tank PAT-005 2681 TRO: 3050r 1996 *The TRO: 2750 entry mounted a standard flamer
Puma Assault Tank PAT-001 2650 RS: 3050Uu 2011
Puma Assault Tank PAT-002 2657 RS: 3050Uu 2011
Ignis Infantry Support Tank (SRM) 2751 RS: 3075u 2010
Puma Assault Tank PAT-005b 2751 RS: 3075u 2010
J. Edgar Light Hover Tank (Flamer) 2793 RS: 3025 1996
Crosscut ED-X2M LoggerMech MOD 2801 RS: VA 2014
Crosscut ED-X2 (Flamer) 2810 RS: OP Klondike 2010
Rhino Fire Support Tank (Flamer) 2835 RS: 3050Uu 2011
Harasser Missile Platform (Flamer) 2851 RS: 3039u 2008
Behemoth Heavy Tank (Flamer) 2981 RS: 3025 1996
Grommet D90 MilitiaMech (Standard) 3000 RS: VA 2014
Condor Heavy Hover Tank (Fission) 3014 XTRO: SW 2012
Condor Heavy Hover Tank (Flamer) 3025 RS: 3039u 2008
Axel Heavy Tank Mk 2 3036 RS: 3039u 2008
Centipede Scout Car (Standard) 3054 TRO: 3058 1995
This is very impressive, however; my copy of TRO: 3026 is the original and it mentions the Behemoth and J.Edgar Flamer versions IIRC, but I think it's entirely possible that you are right and that RS with the flamers attributed as the vehicle-version may not have come out until later and thus; it might not have been specified as such.
They can be found in the Battletech Compendium, but not the prior rules compilation called the Rules of Warfare. I suspect this means they would have first appeared in citytech 2nd edition.
Compendium is a 1990 product, according to sarna. But now we're in a real chicken-egg pickle.
If 3026 does not specifically mention the flamers on the Behemoth and J.Edgar variants as being vehicle-models and we don't get record sheets or rules for those weapons until later, then what was going on there?
I wonder; did flamers originally not require a fusion engine/power amp? Maybe they were just unaccounted-for ammo-based weapons that produced heat, but were otherwise considered ballistic weapons? That kinda makes a crazy sort of sense now that I think about it in those terms.
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The early RS sheets only have the TRO variant. They appear in the 1996 RS 3025/26. Without an RS you can’t confirm if they planned to run the coolant truck / puma approach. I only counted it when it had a confirmed vehicle flamer in print
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That probably explains Adrian Gideon's "last century" remark...
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It seems fairly definitive at this point that they were added in the Compendium in 1990 and first utilized on a canon unit in 1995
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Or at least first officially documented.
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Was the vehicle flamer CUT from the BattleTech Manual and HIDDEN from players for nearly a DECADE??
<x_files_theme.midi>
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I meant on a canon record sheet...
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This is very impressive, however; my copy of TRO: 3026 is the original and it mentions the Behemoth and J.Edgar Flamer versions IIRC, but I think it's entirely possible that you are right and that RS with the flamers attributed as the vehicle-version may not have come out until later and thus; it might not have been specified as such.
If 3026 does not specifically mention the flamers on the Behemoth and J.Edgar variants as being vehicle-models and we don't get record sheets or rules for those weapons until later, then what was going on there?
I wonder; did flamers originally not require a fusion engine/power amp? Maybe they were just unaccounted-for ammo-based weapons that produced heat, but were otherwise considered ballistic weapons? That kinda makes a crazy sort of sense now that I think about it in those terms.
I didn't mention it previously but I'm thinking the same thing about the Behemoth & J.Edgar, they were mentioned in the "Variants" section but never had real stats for the RS.
I always wondered how the SRM2's & MG's were going to account for that many flamers w/ heatsinks.
I'm curious to see what TPTB say to answer the question.
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The best we've gotten so far is "the Compendium".
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Sure, but I was only concerned with when they actually appeared in print as a vehicle flamer. They had the opportunity in TRO 3025 with the coolant truck, which actually mounted flamers, to use vehicle flamers. They weren’t in citytech 1e nor the BTM. I doubt they were actually made an officially weapon until 1990
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I think that's what "the Compendium" means. But as you pointed out, there wasn't a canon record sheet until 1995.
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I was responding to hellraiser. You budged in front of me :))
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Ah, sorry for the ninja! :)
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Reading the fluff for the TRO:3025, it mentions using Liquid Oxygen as ammo for the Flamers as well as fuel for the Jump Jets. I'm wondering if back then all the Flamers at that point were "Vehicle Flamers" with free ammo, in the way Jump Jets have a free amount of fuel. That would explain why the fluff reads as Vehicle Flamers and art shows fuel canisters on Mechs.
The fluff also says that the FS had copied the DC and swapped the lasers from their coolant trucks for convertible flamers. and that the other Houses were now studying dual purpose flamers. It sounds as if most flamers only worked with a specific ammo. It also sounds like someone just figured out that instead of having a static ammo feed that these dual purpose flamers could easily switch between multiple ammo bins. Other wise all the Houses would have been doing it already.
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whatever they are they aren’t proper vehicle flamers (ie as presented in the compendium) It does appear that flamers the kurita coolant truck featured do follow special rules. The other option is that they were initially conceived to act like missiles and auto cannons and not require HS or power amplifiers.
The puma from 2750 is a bit maddening as far checking the devs’ process as the heat sinks are wrong - it gives 16 for a ppc, 2 ML, an SL, and a flamer.
Whatever the case the coolant truck is a unique design from the embryonic days of BT rules that uses special case flamers fluffed as a sort of fluid gun rather than a true vehicle flamer
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NERD ALERT UPDATE
the plot thickens here a bit. i went back and looked at FASA 1667 Record Sheets Vol. 5: Vehicles and noticed it had a copyright of 1992 (two years after the compendium), which caused me to go back and double-check the coolant truck sheet. i missed it the first time - it mounts a single, one-ton vehicle flamer with one ton of fuel (no ammo quantity listed) instead of two flamers on the TRO 3025 entry. undoubtedly an error as vehicle flamers are .5 tons in the compendium.
it would appear there is a bit of conforming to the 3025 fluff here - no other ICE vehicle in the book runs a flamer of any kind. curiously the "fuel" listed as ammo doesn't give a number of shots, where all other ammo types do. whatever the case, the first confirmed vehicle flamer moves up to 1992 - even if it requires eratta :))
(http://puu.sh/Fb0jI/ab5d6a59d5.png)
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Wow, that is all sorts of weird looking.
Has a Power Amplifier & Heat Sinks too like its for an Energy Weapon, but only 3 of them for the single Flamer.
I have the feeling the rules were in flux (or flat out didn't exist so someone made shit up) when these were printed not finalized yet.
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Interestingly, the 3025 coolant truck doesn’t have sinks or power amps. I think an exception was made because of the fluff
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Or like many FASA products of that era there was little fact-checking.
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That's the option that has my money...
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Probably true as there were never any official rules for the coolant spray portion. The way the 1992 RS is set up makes me at least believe a little the rules were bent a bit in this particular case
Around 1988 someone was probably like “hey let’s have a way to put flamers of vehicles without having to commit power amps or heat sinks”
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Looking at the RS the Coolant Truck is also 3.1 tons lighter than the stats in TRO:3025. It does look like they were clarifying the difference between flamer types here. I don't know why the heat sinks on the RS unless Flamers were intended to generate heat as well as deliver heat. No clue on the Power Amplifier. No clue how a weapon fires ammo from a cargo bay either but that's okay.
Was the Fury with the Command Computer mentioned?
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it's called Flamer (Vehicle), so it was definitely differentiated. i'm pretty sure good ole FASA editing was responsible for not changing the weight from one ton to a half ton. the power amps appear to be a nod to the fluff but it could also just be "we forgot". It's probably unproductive to speculate on the nature or intentions. the whole thing is a mess overall so separating bugs from features is pure conjecture.
either way it's the first time FASA used a dedicated vehicle flamer on a canon design, which is what i was looking for
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I didn't catch that it was 3 tons light.
That would be for the HS that it would need for 2 Fusion Flamers.
Which would make sense since it had Fusion models in the TRO entry.
That is why it had the Power Amp too.
My thought is that while the TRO was "Pre-V-Flamer" the RS collection was after they had stats for Vee-Flamers.
So whoever created the RS was confused on what to use & ended up with a weird design that matches nothing in canon.
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The featured 3025 coolant truck was labeled as ICE but had no power amps or HS. The fluff in the TRO entry points specifically to their special nature due to the fuel tanks. Again, it was the only ICE unit statted with a flamer in 3025/26. As previously stated, it’s a mess.
I believe Ockham’s razor has to potential blades here
1) FASA department of mathematics and engineering doing their thing
2) the work on these RS were done before / without knowledge of the compendium vehicle flamers and they just kind of... winged it
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A number of things in the BTU have changed after their inception, Hatchet being one example.
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Sure. Which is why I’m counting the 1992 coolant truck RS as the first canon instance of the first canon vehicle flamer, even with its high WTF quotient, and not the centipede in 3058
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Geeze, I wonder if we could find out who wrote the initial entries for the Behemoth and J.Edgar then and ask what was going on with the flamer variants then?
Who do we have left who was in on rules stuff back then?
Thread Note; I am adding the Blakist PPC Pike here from the Custom Rides thread, as in context; it appears to be a series-produced or depot-level variant and not a one-off. I think that's neat actually; as if they liked the Schrek so much that when they ran short, then took a similar chassis and made something similar.
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That’s the thing. There were no variants beyond a mention (much like the list of units you curate in this thread). They didn’t exist officially as playable units until 1996 so they didn’t have to conform to any rules.
I don’t think anyone is around from that far back. It’s been 30-35 years
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Geeze, I wonder if we could find out who wrote the initial entries for the Behemoth and J.Edgar then and ask what was going on with the flamer variants then?
The Flamers for the J.Edgar and Behemoth sound more like custom jobs than official variants. I don't know how they would have built them them. Right now I'd say Flamer for J.Edgar and Vehicle Flamer for the Behemoth because of the engine types.
Who do we have left who was in on rules stuff back then?
It'd be nice if there were someone from back then who could answer questions. There's a few things I'd love to know more about.
Thread Note; I am adding the Blakist PPC Pike here from the Custom Rides thread, as in context; it appears to be a series-produced or depot-level variant and not a one-off. I think that's neat actually; as if they liked the Schrek so much that when they ran short, then took a similar chassis and made something similar.
Makes sense.
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The ICE J. Edgar variant could have clouded the Flamer variant's status.
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Possibly but you'd either have to drop the engine rating and all the current weapons to fit in an ICE and Vehicle Flamer into the J.Edgar.
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If they even tried to build it with whatever clunky rules they had, they decided to just not
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Sarna does mention the ICE versions only went 8/12.
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None of Santa’s references predate the year 2000.
The flamer-equipped variants didn’t appear until RS:3025/26 in 1996, which account for the post-compendium vehicle flamer rules. Anything before that is fluff that lacks official stats (unless someone has a sheet I missed)
The stats are whatever you want them to be because if they ever existed, we never saw them
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Which is a little odd, since the original record sheet (for the stock variant) came out in 1992.
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Yup. There are a few variants for other units (like the hunter). The J Edgar only got the TRO stock variant. Some 3026 variants didn’t see print until 3039u (like the hover coolant truck mentioned originally in 3026)
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This thread answers our questions about the Early flamer, pretty much all of them.
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=68271.0 (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=68271.0)
I'm going to keep the Hermes Vehicle Flamer variants, because honestly; kinda cool and it would be neat to sort-of, *redeem* what now appears as mistakes in the old fluff. IMO; I like the minor tweaked variants, especially the ones that reek of Mad-Max Succession Wars made-do modifications.
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it's a shame they published such precious few examples to let us pick through the logic
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What if we gave the earlier ICE engined Flamers a free half ton ammo? That way they can at least conform to current construction rules.
TT
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this path leads us directly into custom rules, which has its own place.
we've had the flamer variants like the j. edgar and behemoth since 1996 so they've already been modified to conform to the construction rules for twenty-five years. no need for fudging anything.
the mystery is how those variants were constructed in their own paradigm. or if they were at all - it might have just been the writers tossing an off-handed reference to a flamer variant without ever actually making it with the construction rules. literally the only pre-1996 record sheet we have with a vehicle flamer and an ICE engine is the coolant truck so parsing the math is problematic without multiple data points.
it's not even emperically possible to see how standard flamers interacted with vehicle fusion engines in the old days because there is only one canon unit that both uses a flamer and goes over ten heat sinks - the puma - and it's clear they didn't add right (16 sinks for a ppc, 2 ML, 1 SL, and a flamer).
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Bad math wasn't exactly rare back in the FASA days...
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common enough to mess up the one example you could make any kind of extrapolation from, of course
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Well . . . new one afaik, the Star League era Pallas . . . probably a 90-95t assault with . . . a guass rifle in one arm? And some sort of AC larger than a 20 series in the arm- maybe UAC?
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What's that mentioned in?
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Redemption & Malaice
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The Star League didn't have bigger ACs than 20, no Ultras nor LB-types.
I did DL Redemption and Malice but i've no idea where i placed it, think i need to read it...
EDIT Found it, quick search for Pallas gives only one line with it. "...the upper body was that of a Pallas, a design
long lost over the centuries."
Nothing else is said about the Pallas, though given the context, we can assume it is a design in the assault 'Mech class but no weapons were given for it.
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Sorry phrased that wrong when I was flipping screens- smaller than the 20 series, it had range to work with the Gauss Rifle. If it was Ultra, I know it was a 5 . . . but while the AC jammed, its questionable about it being a Ultra or just the nature of the frankenmech described.
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If i recall FrankenMech rules correctly (and assuming that the short story follows the rules correctly), the center torso defines the weight class, and thus the Pallas must've been 95-tonner.
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Well, that thing had to be ugly . . .
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Sarna actually assumes that said FrankenMech is supposed to be the Corsair from MWO.
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Added the Hurricane Air Car and CI-117 APC from HB:HS
Added Cyclops I Space Station
Will add the Pallas
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Sarna notes that Redemption and Malice also mentions another 'Mech, the Slither.
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Sarna actually assumes that said FrankenMech is supposed to be the Corsair from MWO.
Arena regularly assumes many things. Like any wiki it's a good resource but not authoritative.
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Sarna actually assumes that said FrankenMech is supposed to be the Corsair from MWO.
Not the Corsair... a Corsair. Meaning, a "generic Periphery term referring to heavy and assault class FrankenMechs."
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Sarna actually assumes that said FrankenMech is supposed to be the Corsair from MWO.
Not the Corsair... a Corsair. Meaning, a "generic Periphery term referring to heavy and assault class FrankenMechs."
It can't be the MWO Corsair for legal reasons, it already has been stated that PGI exclusive mechs will remain as such for the foreseeable future but the FreakenMech in qestion was defiantly a nod to the design.
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Was the Grand Crusader II OmniMech mentioned yet. Development was abandoned for the Celestial Series OmniMechs
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the [/i]Corsair... a Corsair. Meaning, a "generic Periphery term referring to heavy and assault class FrankenMechs."
Well...No, thats not what ist stated
95-ton FrankenMech "Redemption", arguably a Corsair but not explicitly named as such
And I never heard of such a specific "periphery term". Source?
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Sarna notes that Redemption and Malice also mentions another 'Mech, the Slither.
Any details given?
Was the Grand Crusader II OmniMech mentioned yet. Development was abandoned for the Celestial Series OmniMechs
It will be now!
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Any details given?
Book only says
"One was the upper torso of a Vulcan and the legs of a Rim Worlds Slither"
No further Info.
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And I never heard of such a specific "periphery term". Source?
The Corsair fluff from MWO: https://mwomercs.com/news/2018/11/2179-corsair-lore
While the Inner Sphere settled into a culture of salvage and refurbishment, those dregs of humanity—devolving into pirate kingdoms and dictatorships—were forced even further into desperation. Out there, BattleMechs were not simply field-repaired. They were all too often mash-ups, with whole parts, including skeletons, grafted on in an effort to field equipment that can still fight. The heavier such “FrankenMechs” are often also referred to as “Corsairs”, though no exact weight or chassis applies. Instead, Corsairs are these desperate chop-shop heavy and assault BattleMechs forged from parts from a variety of different ’Mechs, whatever can be found on forgotten battlefields.
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Any MWO source isnt canon unless CGL puts it out.
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CGL already said they won't out of legal caution. Same reason why they won't touch fan designs. Only reason we more recently got a few MW4 looking mech is because MW4 became abandon-were.
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CGL already said they won't out of legal caution. Same reason why they won't touch fan designs. Only reason we more recently got a few MW4 looking mech is because MW4 became abandon-were.
MW4 is not abandonware. (Besides, that isn't really a legal concept.)
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CGL already said they won't out of legal caution. Same reason why they won't touch fan designs. Only reason we more recently got a few MW4 looking mech is because MW4 became abandon-were.
. . . the artist for MW4 designs, David White, has worked for CGL?
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. . . the artist for MW4 designs, David White, has worked for CGL?
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Category:Works_by_David_White
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Which is why I said that- he also worked on MWDA mechs IIRC, which is why we had a Black Knight that looked pretty close- same for the Thor II/Grand Summoner.
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And the Arctic Wolf II
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Which is why I said that- he also worked on MWDA mechs IIRC, which is why we had a Black Knight that looked pretty close- same for the Thor II/Grand Summoner.
That was another artist, Brent Evans who also worked on TRO 3075. While David White's work on MW4 influenced the look of many MWDA mechs like the Thor, Mad Dog and Black Knight, I have yet to see anything credited to David White directly outside of later TROs post WK reintroducing those mechs.
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https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Category:Works_by_David_White
I felt like he did a brilliant job for TRO:3145 Federated Suns.
His Gunsmith, Vulpes, Black Knight, and Atlas III all really hit the mark for me.
I also liked the Zibler Strike tank and a few other of the vehicles as well.
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https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Category:Works_by_David_White
OHHHH he's the one who made the Hoplite and Firefly look cool! (granted they're SLE/Clan versions, so they are cooler by default ;) )
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OHHHH he's the one who made the Hoplite and Firefly look cool! (granted they're SLE/Clan versions, so they are cooler by default ;) )
Those two really need minis based on White's work...
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I'm a bigger fan of David White's art than the MWO art, by a long shot.
The nuseen fit in the middle - more greeblie than White, but not as busy or as similar as MWO. If you have trouble telling the difference between a Firestarter, Enforcer, and Vindicator ...
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Add in a unknown Nova config from the Luthien scenario book pg 43, bottom right. A DC Slayer is donating a lot of missiles to the poor Jaguar (Mech is named Luvbug? and has 'hate' spelled out on the fingers of the right hand?) who might be on fire from the attention. The right shoulder has a 4 missile rack and the arm looks like it has the ERML set up of the Prime but I can only see 3 . . . this does not match ANY canon (or even really close) Nova configs. At a guess . . . 4 ERML on each arm, SSRM4 on the RT, and add a DHS . . . but you cannot see the same position on the LT so it could be a SRM4 on each shoulder and split the ton of ammo.
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Omni loadouts seem rather pedantic given the nature of them.
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The Luthien book is also noted as one of the most error prone books of the FASA era due to the rush to get it published.
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Not saying too much against that Kit, but its still a very different load for the Nova than we get- I like that sort of load out on the Pouncer, figure it would work well on a Nova since its more robust.
I agree SteelRaven, but its art with most the details right . . . not saying the elite Jag & Nova Cat clusters are 3/4 skills or forgetting Leo Showers was a Jaguar Khan at the time the invasion started.
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Those two really need minis based on White's work...
Something about the 3050 art for the Firefly calls to me more than the OK Firefly. Though the Wolverine II is still my favourite.
And don't we now have a sheet for the missig Firefly variant?
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Something about the 3050 art for the Firefly calls to me more than the OK Firefly. Though the Wolverine II is still my favourite.
And don't we now have a sheet for the missig Firefly variant?
RSSW has the original Firefly (3-something) that was referred to in HOK.
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Add in a unknown Nova config from the Luthien scenario book pg 43, bottom right. A DC Slayer is donating a lot of missiles to the poor Jaguar (Mech is named Luvbug? and has 'hate' spelled out on the fingers of the right hand?) who might be on fire from the attention. The right shoulder has a 4 missile rack and the arm looks like it has the ERML set up of the Prime but I can only see 3 . . . this does not match ANY canon (or even really close) Nova configs. At a guess . . . 4 ERML on each arm, SSRM4 on the RT, and add a DHS . . . but you cannot see the same position on the LT so it could be a SRM4 on each shoulder and split the ton of ammo.
I'll add it. Honestly; to make Omnis seem as unique as they should be; we need more rando-cardrissian comfigurations
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I still don't get why different Omni loadouts are considered notable here. The whole point of Omni pod space is that it can be whatever configuration you want, as long as it is within tonnage and crit space limits. Why not simply note to Omni space as such regardless of content?
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i can see the argument for loadouts that exist canonically (even if just in hints and glimpses) vs the infinite possibilities not published in an official source. headcanoning that John Doe runs his own Avatar config vs a novel saying that he definitely does mean two different things.
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I still don't get why different Omni loadouts are considered notable here. The whole point of Omni pod space is that it can be whatever configuration you want, as long as it is within tonnage and crit space limits. Why not simply note to Omni space as such regardless of content?
You have missed the 'canon only' discussions and overboard official reactions to anything hinting at a mech or vehicle's loadout in a topic?
Its art, so its canon (as flimsy as art is) and one we lack a sheet for . . . as someone pointed out, being Omni only counts for meta/strategic game purposes- a RS from a Omni is no different than a standard mech.
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Added the UL-14 Bulldozer: TRO:VA(R) p. 34
And Gulf Breeze "Capital Station" 930,000T; 5x Wheelers, from Touring the Stars: Gulf Breeze, P.12
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I don't see the Hessen Heavy Tank here. The MUL says it is from the Age of War and appears in XTRO Primitives 3, but has no other data on it at all.
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Avalonmax-class freighters noted (not seen/no states) in Touring the Stars: Rigil Kentarus.
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Avalonmax-class freighters noted (not seen/no states) in Touring the Stars: Rigil Kentarus.
I do not have that product. Is that a "wet" frieghter? Or a historical mention of a spacefaring vessel?
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I don't see the Hessen Heavy Tank here. The MUL says it is from the Age of War and appears in XTRO Primitives 3, but has no other data on it at all.
Okay, from what I can tell; the Hessen was the even-more pimitive version of the KVN-2 Korvin, with the one from 3075 being the KVN-3. Sound right?
As such; not only is the Hessen a great candidate for this list; it would be super-easy to do.
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I do not have that product. Is that a "wet" frieghter? Or a historical mention of a spacefaring vessel?
Wet Freighter. It's naval support vehicle essentially. I was surprised someone let them sneak in a name of new vehicle in one these book. I'm happy about and sad we didn't get stats! I was just in campaign where we have alot naval support vehicles (aka big ships) being used on canon world. I'd love had this thing than same two template designs from Vehicle Annex (which i'm grateful for.)
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Wet Freighter. It's naval support vehicle essentially. I was surprised someone let them sneak in a name of new vehicle in one these book. I'm happy about and sad we didn't get stats! I was just in campaign where we have alot naval support vehicles (aka big ships) being used on canon world. I'd love had this thing than same two template designs from Vehicle Annex (which i'm grateful for.)
Rock on man! Thanks for the contribution!
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I'm not sure if was mentioned, in the novel ''Fortress of Lies'', Swordsworn were held up arctic shore defending mining fields, when Capellan Confederation was trying to take the world of St. Andre. The Capellans conducted a Amphibious Assault using large naval support ships, which were used to dredge ocean. I have get my book what they were being called, however, these ships had DropShip like drop chutes to drop the sand dredged. In this assault, BattleMechs were dropped form these ship(s) to storm the shore as the SwordSworn fought them off. No class was named, but they were given informal name i'm trying remember.
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Okay; so the vessels in question were *dredges* being *used* in a naval assault role?
That's super-cool IMO and a key example of something that *should* be in the universe, somewhere, even if the use as an assault ship is novel.
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Yeah, basically it was 'we are not going to risk DS assaulting a prepared shore-based position, send in the hovercraft and converted wet navy ships!' To me it was a effort at Ichon or Normandy invasions.
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Yeah, basically it was 'we are not going to risk DS assaulting a prepared shore-based position, send in the hovercraft and converted wet navy ships!' To me it was a effort at Ichon or Normandy invasions.
Sounds pretty freakin cool to me.
Yeah; when you get a chance to grab the name for me, I will add it.
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I am not sure it is named, just described as Wrangler said. Unfortunately its not a book that was released as a e-pub so its in a box somewhere . . . I want to find that one, b/c it was a earlier DA book I would not mind reading again.
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there's a pic somewhere of a mech sized naval landing craft ... with the mechs hanging out like infantry.
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I am not sure it is named, just described as Wrangler said. Unfortunately its not a book that was released as a e-pub so its in a box somewhere . . . I want to find that one, b/c it was a earlier DA book I would not mind reading again.
Added as a description
there's a pic somewhere of a mech sized naval landing craft ... with the mechs hanging out like infantry.
Got that one. One of my fav sourcebooks.
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Sounds pretty freakin cool to me.
Yeah; when you get a chance to grab the name for me, I will add it.
Got the name. Their referred to as Bulkers. Pg. 271 Fortress of Lies. Used by the Capellans during the Battle of Archangel. Most planet had been taken by the time of the battle.
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Got the name. Their referred to as Bulkers. Pg. 271 Fortress of Lies. Used by the Capellans during the Battle of Archangel. Most planet had been taken by the time of the battle.
Awesome! Thanks!
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Would it possible to have the initial post alphabetized?
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I see the latest were not added so . . .
White Raven
Goliath C
Griffin C
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Would it possible to have the initial post alphabetized?
beachhead, feel free to copy/paste this into the first post if you like
"Large and Small Mech Landing Craft" From Liberation of Terra II.
"Project Trojan" HDHB --- Stealth Dropship
"Zoomer" Elemental transport sled from Wolf Pack
15-ton GS-54 Guard Quad SecurityMech
80-ton Lugger battlefield salvage ’Mech
90-ton King-class CargoMech
90-ton St. Florian
Air Car (probably two versions; Hover and VTOL) (MW1E)
Aquatic Clan Exoskeleton; Elemental precursor
Atlantis Arcology---on atreus, 10kph cruising (TacOps)
Avalonmax-class freighters---Touring the Stars: Rigil Kentarus.
Awesome AWS-11H Triple HPPC from HB: HM
Baby Sylvester Dropship
Barghest Gray---Major Gray of 20th Aucturan, during the JF Incursion has the Barghests under her command modified by swapping the ER LLs for Clan Gauss Rifles.
Bauer Enterprises Heavy LAM which lost out to the Phoenix Hawk LAM
Brookes Incorporated three-man digging/drilling machine (2940)
Bulker Sea-Going Dredge---Mentioned in Fortress of lies; capable of deploying mechs in amphibious assaults through the chutes for the spoil(Right term?) Dross?
Cameroon (Ice Hellion --> forerunner of the Icestorm)
Carrack Carrier Variant---1st SW
Cherrypicker Agromech (later GDL book)
Chimera Prototype ASF
CI-117 APC---Cyclops Industries Product, HB:HS Cyclops Industries profile
Clan APC Sub
Clan Behemoth DS from TRO 3057---ER Lasers
Clan Rhino BA (Gnome predecessor)
Clinoa-Class Frigate (Wet Naval Escort for the Meabh)
Clipper-Class Cargo-carrying jumpship. Free Flight Limited Project/product
Coanda PSC---Skye Pleasure Craft Sport Racing WiGE (Techmanual)
Colt Conv Fighter (SRM)
Comitatus---JS (Freighter and Downgraded Cargo Variants)
Command Van (MW1E)
Crusader; SLDF Jumping version (the same as had the Hawk Missile Systems, but otherwise similar to the 3L)
Cyclops I---Wolf's Dragoon's space station; drydocks for jumpships and dropships, recharge batteries.
Cyclops Mastodon Hover Transport---"Armor and Infantry" Transport in development in 3067 with AP Weapons and "lighter-than-normal" Armour (Techmanual)
Daemon (SLDF Prototype)
Daemon---Norse Storm mech intended to replace the Spector in production.
Dagda Mobile Atolls
Delavan-class Cruiser build by the Federated Suns---HBHD
Delta---Early prototype Protomech used in action by the Smoke Jaguares in limited numbers, Mentioned on pg 26, Twilight of the Clans Campaign Book.
Deuce-and-a-Half (Davion "Half-tracked" version of the Bulldog or a similar vehicle)
Dropship Crawler (Mobile structure example)
Dropshuttle Smallcraft from Objectives: Lyran Alliance
DroST I---Implied Dropshuttle-bay-capable 5000t variant of the DroST
Durandel Destroyer---FM:FS
Dust Rat---Wolf's Dragoon's 6-wheeled recon car from Wolf Pack
Erinyes (WOB Super Weapon with Heavy Mass driver, based on a newgrange)
Evironmentally-specialized pre-Elemental BA
Falcon Hovertank (CityTech 1E)
Falcon's Roost Orbital Complex
Fire Moth Infantry carrier
Florence AmbulanceMech
flying airbase (Mobile structure example)
Fox (Sea Fox/Diamond Shark)
Free-Flight Ltd Orbital Dry dock from Objectives: Free World's League
Fusion-Powered Aquamech (Mentioned in Ghost Wars TRO)
GHR-1X Ghost Hunter---failed, boondogles-esc prototype of the Grasshopper, possibly with flawed-CLPS/NSS or other stealth system
GHR-4R Grasshopper---From the BC story "A soldier's priviledge" and recontructed here https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=55136.msg1269114 from data in the story
GM MuckRaker
Graf-Tengu Air Transport from Objectives: DC
Grand Crusader II Omnimech---Abandoned in favour of the Celestial series.
Gray Monday BA (unidentified BA used in the Gray Monday attacks)
Ground Car (MW1E)
Gulf Breeze "Capital Station" 930,000T; 5x Wheelers, from Touring the Stars: Gulf Breeze, P.12
Haepheastus-class station
Heavy Transport B1 (MW1E)
Heavy Weapons Carriers (better, fusion-versions of the above HTP: Glengarry) LRM, SRM, AC Laser variants
Hector--- DS 1800, test bed for M2 Caspar Drone
Herdsman AgroMech mentioned in TRO: 3075.
Hermes and Hermes II---Version with vehicle flamers as an early holdover or a field modification, in order to come in line with fluff descriptions
Hermes II HER-2K 'Hermes III'---Mentioned advanced-tech predecessor of the HER-4K; 2x ERLL, Flamer, DHS
Hermes II---Illegal CT AC and Arm-Mounted AC Prototypes
Hessen Tank--CC, Mentioned in XTRO III, Korvin Precursor.
hood class cruiser (Wet-Navy Cruiser mentioned in gameplay examples in Combat Equipment)
Hover Scout (RS V5: Vehicles)
Hover Weapons carriers (HWC-A from RS: Vehicles and MUL) LRM, SRM, RL, Rifle and AC Variants, 25T
Hughes-class mobile yard station
Hunter Wheeled Assault Tank; 20T, PPC, Vox 130 Fusion, 129.6kph---TCI Shadowhawk/Scorpion model kit
Hurricane Air/Hover car---Cyclops Industries product, HB:HS Cyclops Industries profile
Hussar MLs and Armour variant---TRO3050R. Drops the LL for 2xML and more armour. Possibly also an electronics system.
Ice Ships; ala the "Ryan Cartel"
Jarvis Prototype mini-sub
Jeep (MW1E)
Jenny ASF trainer (Original House Stiener SB, under Nagelring entry)
Jet Sled (MW1E)
Jonah Mini-Sub (Space Version)
Khirgiz; earlier version with SFE, possibly non-omni.
League DS (GDL Books)
Leopard, Union, Overlord and Excalibur Passenger/Cargo Conversions---Various novels, especially MWDA
LES HALLES REST AND REFIT STATION from Objectives: Free World's League
Light wheeled weapons carriers (Some attribution in fiction, particularly Decision at Thunder Rift) 20-40 tons, PPC, Laser, Missile, AC, Rifle, Thumper, RL
LT-MOB-50 Rail Mobile Longtom
M1 Drone
M10 Drone
M11 Drone
M2 Drone
M6 Drone
M7 and M8 drone stations?
Manazuru Conventional Aircraft from Objectives: DC
Marauder II Ballistic Weapons Variant---TRO 3050, takes of advantage of useless CASE in wrong torso.
MicroTitan - Ultralight digging Mech
Minsk (Ghost Bear)
Mobile HPG
Mobile Mining Refinery MMR (Support Vehicle, Drone/Automated Control optional, from the new beginner's set included fiction: Golden Rule)
Monza Light Cruise Liner---Federated-Boeing Interstellar (Techmanual)
Mosquito Radar Plane '52-Model (Techmanual)
NETC Skyhook heavylift VTOL (Techmanual)
Nova Luthien---SMR-4, 3+ ERML?
Ogotai---First Diamond Shark ASF 2874
Okinawa---Balanced-armour first production version---TRO:3057
Ostroc OstWar Arms Variant---Simply an Ostroc which visually matches the original art due to fitting of Earlier OstWar arms. May or may not have two arm-mounted SRM4s, vs 1 in the Torso.
Pallas---Long lost assault mech ~90-95t, mentioned as part of a Frankenmech in Redemption and Malice
Peregrine Warship
PPC-Armed Locust---attributed in first printing of TRO 3025; a Davion-Variant that falls down when it fires.
Prime Mover (MW1E)
Qasar---First Novacat ASF 2905
RanchHand AgroMech in “Callie’s Call”
redhawk gunship (mentioned in the Proliferation Cycle)
Reudel Conv Fighter (Hearts of Chaos)
RiotMech - (Appeared in MWDA Novel Fortress of Lies)
Rising Star (SLDF Prototype)
Scout DS (GDL Books)
Skimmer (MW1E)
SLDF bullet-proof uniform
SLDF subterranean tank
Slither---Another mech mentioned only in Redemption and Malice; Rim Worlds, so it seems.
Sovereign class cruiser (depicted in Tac Ops, Pg161, 245)
SpaceStream Smallcraft from Objectives: Lyran Alliance
Spector Christian---From Chaos Irregulars stories
Spectre Clan Survielance Plane---Look Down Radar Write-up
Speeder (MW1E)
Star League Floating Islands---GM Skycity-3000, Lyran "Skycity" (TacOps)
StarCorps Muskrat-379---SupVee Aircraft, Amphibious, prop-driven, STOL, Water-tanker firefighting aircraft with look-down radar, hi-res cameras and Thermal. B-Model is optimized for passengers and camera equipment as a recreational parachuting aircraft (Techmanual)
StarCorps Smoke Ultralight Trike SupVee Aircraft (Techmanual)
Stealth Karnov
Storm Giant (Scylla Predecessor)
super-freighter (Mobile structure example)
suvurov ICE tank
Terraforming ships---may have a mechanical part in the process, may just be a designated transport.
Thug AC, At least 1 SRM-4, at least 1 PPC swapped for an autocannon. Bush Wars art. Makes sense as a SW-mod.
Tigershark fighter
tigershrike ICE Hover
Trailblazer Exploration ship---Star League sourcebook, p. 60, Crew: 479, HPG equipped, Had three jump drives, all linked to a central control computer through a single circuit junction. Launched 2655 to map and survey unexplored star systems. Major Boondoggle bait right there.
Traveler-class aerodyne mail shuttle, in use in the FWL in 2466, predating the HPG. It's stated to have a crew capacity of 2-3, and can be flown by a single pilot.
UL-14 Bulldozer---TRO:VA(R) p. 34
Una Jumpship
Valiant Regal sportster; Handbook: House Davion pg 175
Venturer WS Word of blake prototype destroyed over loyalty by sabotage
Venusian Solar Shade
Vision Quest (Nova Cat)
Voss Conv Fighter (Hearts of Chaos)
Wakusei no Mochiagerumono Conventional Aircraft from Objectives: DC
Wheel Space Station of the Wheel System
Wheeled Scout (RS V5: Vehicles)
Yangtze Air Transport From Tengo Aerospace in Objectives: CC
'Zilla---Defiance-built demolition mech competitor
apocryphal stuff
"The Monster" Frankenmech---Battletechnology 13
Achilles ACH-09S---Battletechnology 18
Alliance ALI-1A---Battletechnology 7
Ambassador MBSDR-1---StarDrive V1N1
Apollo APL-1J---StarDrive V1N1
Ariane ARN-E1---StarDate V3N3
Athena FDC Carrier---Battletechnology 8
Avalon Arms Support System---Battletechnology The Early Years
Avatar AVT-7A---Battletechnology 21
Badger-Class medium tank (obsolete basis for SP Sniper, using the same SLDI TRK/5(B) Chassis)---Battletechnology 0204
Bandicoot KGR-BCT---Battletechnology 19
Behemoth BMH-1T "belfry"---Battletechnology 11
Boomer BMR-100---Battletechnology 19
Brawler Mech---Battletechnology 13
BRN-1 Brian---Battletechnology 13
Bushido BSD-7K---Battletechnology 18
Cavalier Class Dropship---StarDate V3N3
Centurion Maximus CNT-9---Battletechnology 15
Cerberus CBR-6S ASF---Battletechnology 10
CGR-1A2 Charger-KH---Battletechnology 13
Chimera Ch-1M "perfected quad mech"---Battletechnology The Early Years
Clytemnestra CTP-005---Battletechnology 20
Cobra FrankenMech---Battletechnology The Lost Issues
Common Chassis vehicles 100, 75 ton tracked and 50 ton Hover---Battletechnology 19
Cyclone F-95---StarDate V3N3
Dervish DV-7S---Battletechnology 11
Dwarf Wombat KGY-WBT---Battletechnology 19
Fisher FSH-9R Recon/Spec-Ops carrier mech---Battletechnology The Early Years
Foxfire FXR-4R---StarDrive V1N1
Frankenstein`s Monster FrankenMech---Battletechnology 20
Gadfly GDF-L4---StarDate V3N3
Goshawk VTOL Gunship---Battletechnology 9
Gremlin Armoured car---StarDate V3N4
Gryphon Scout Hover Tank---Battletechnology 19
Guardian---Battletechnology 13
Guppy Scout Submarine GU-2P---Battletechnology 12
Harrier Hovertank---Battletechnology 0202
Hedgehog---Also now attributed as the first Tripod in other sources. DO IT!
Huntress artillery mech (it`s got tracks, so I think TPTB would be into it for the MWDA connection there)---Battletechnology 14
Interloper Urban Scout URS-12A---Battletechnology 16
Iroquois Transport VTOL---Battletechnology 9
Javelin/Enforcer/Wolverine FrankenMech---Battletechnology The Early Years
Joey KGR-000---Battletechnology 19
Junior JNR-7P---StarDrive V1N1
Kangaroo KGR-00---Battletechnology 19
Ki-Rin VTOL Gunship---Battletechnology 9
Kookaburra KBA-01---Battletechnology 19
Leviathan LVN-1X "Belfry" A barely mobile wheeled tank---Battletechnology 11
Life-Saver Medivac VTOL---Battletechnology 9
Lumberer FrankenMech---Battletechnology The Lost Issues
Lynx LYN-5X (Basically looks like a shadowhawk variant)----Battletechnology 9
Malleus MLS-1A---Battletechnology 11
Mantis LAM---Battletechnology 15
Mauler Cititank---Battletechnology 16
Minnow Sub MNO-5W---Battletechnology 12
Mite MTE-12C---StarDate V3N6
Munin MN-1B LAM---Battletechnology 10
New Gladiator FrankenMech---Battletechnology The Lost Issues
Omega 137-A---Battletechnology 14
Original Titan(s)---Battletechnology 17, 11
Quicksilver Hoverscout---StarDate V3N4
Rampage RMP-1C---Battletechnology 16
Rattlesnake JR7-31P (Jenner laserboat variant)---Battletechnology 21
Rhino RHN-10 Melee Quad mech---Battletechnology 12
Rifleman-K (Drops the AC/5s for two more Large Lasers, an SRM4 and 7 heatsinks----Battletechnology 9
Roo Scout RO-2A---Battletechnology 14
Royalty-Class Royal Yacht (Armed Jumpship Amaris Star/Lorelei's Hope)---Battletechnology 20
Sandman LAMs---Battletechnology The Early Years
Screaming Hawk---Battletechnology 7
Shadow Hawk Spy (Spec Ops Shadowhawk)---Battletechnology 21
Siren SL-23---StarDate V3N3
Sky Ranger High Schout Drone Carrier---Battletechnology 19
Skyhook 30ton Transport VTOL---Battletechnology 9
Slowpoke SLP-2U---StarDrive V1N1
Sniper ammo carrier---Battletechnology 0204
SP Sniper---Battletechnology 0204
Stiletto STL-7D---StarDrive V1N1
Striga Conventional Fighter STC-13---Battletechnology 12
Striped Bandicoot KGY-BCS---Battletechnology 19
SubUrbanMech---Battletechnology 18
Sylph SYH-A5 Hovertank---Battletechnology The Early Years
Templar TMPL-1R---Battletechnology 15
Traverse TR-11A---StarDate V3N3
Trooper FrankenMech---Battletechnology The Lost Issues
UrbanMech, Modified---Battletechnology 18
Ventilator VNT-1A---Battletechnology 15
Viking Hydrofoil---Battletechnology 0204
Wallaby KGR-WA---Battletechnology 19
Weasel WS3-L and Wild Weasel WS3-L2---Battletechnology 16
Whirlwind Hover Tank---Battletechnology 0202
Wildcat Aerotanker from Battletechnology 10
Wisp WS-2P---Battletechnology The Early Years
Wolfman FrankenMech---Battletechnology 0102
Wombat KGR-W0---Battletechnology 19
Wyvern VTOL Gunship---Battletechnology 9
Zaibatsu-Class Orbital manufacturing Facility---Battletechnology The Early Years
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Would it possible to have the initial post alphabetized?
Totally and good idea.
But I see since I initially saw this notification, Satris has already jumped on it. Well done, mate! Lemme take a look at it.
I see the latest were not added so . . .
White Raven
Goliath C
Griffin C
Those sound really cool! Where are they from? Recent book?
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Totally and good idea.
But I see since I initially saw this notification, Satris has already jumped on it. Well done, mate! Lemme take a look at it.
just give it the ole copy/paste into the first post if you like
Those sound really cool! Where are they from? Recent book?
Divided We Fall - it's a new novella by Pardoe that has clan wolf trying to bring the dragoons back into the fold on the eve of ilclan
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just give it the ole copy/paste into the first post if you like
Divided We Fall - it's a new novella by Pardoe that has clan wolf trying to bring the dragoons back into the fold on the eve of ilclan
Thanks! I just did a bit of editing on your work. Thank you again!
Oh man, I hope they get those barn doors closed in time! oh.......
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Yeah edit away I just stuck it in excel and did an alphabetical sort
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Yeah edit away I just stuck it in excel and did an alphabetical sort
I *thought* I recognized the signs! Excel alphabetizes in a very recognizable way.
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Just looking through the list and I think there may be a few errors.
Where does Wheel space station come from? I thought that was from BattleTechnology 0201 and thus should on the apocryphal list.
Also, there's a DropShuttle smallcraft listed from Objectives LA. Surely that’s the K1 Dropshuttle? The entry in O:LA p27 also truncates the names of various other smallcraft.
Free-Flight Ltd Orbital Dry dock from Objectives: Free World's League
LES HALLES REST AND REFIT STATION from Objectives: Free World's League
Venusian Solar Shade
These are likely unique stations so there is no real point including them or else you then need to list every single orbital facility.
Air Car (probably two versions; Hover and VTOL) (MW1E)
Ground Car (MW1E)
Jet Sled (MW1E)
Speeder (MW1E)
Hurricane Air/Hover car---Cyclops Industries product, HB:HS Cyclops Industries profile
While lacking RS, these have all since been converted to support vehicles in AToW p324
Rising Star (SLDF Prototype) – it wasn’t a prototype, it was merely “a ’Mech produced in low numbers during the first Star League and discontinued because it did not fare well.” TR3067 p92
SLDF bullet-proof uniform – has no place being on a list of units.
Chris
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Just looking through the list and I think there may be a few errors.
Where does Wheel space station come from? I thought that was from BattleTechnology 0201 and thus should on the apocryphal list.
Chris
Wheel station refers, IIRC, to one of the latest Touring the Stars- Broken Wheel.
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Just looking through the list and I think there may be a few errors.
Where does Wheel space station come from? I thought that was from BattleTechnology 0201 and thus should on the apocryphal list.
You may be right. Honestly I cannot recall.
Wheel station refers, IIRC, to one of the latest Touring the Stars- Broken Wheel.
I don't have that one, but the sarna page doesn't mention any stations. Do you mean the more recent (and wheeled-shaped) Gulf-Breeze-Class Stations from the product of the same name?
I didn't *see* any direct allusions to them having been called "Wheel" space stations in there, but I could have missed it. As is; I'd like to keep that one, pending more info because I love us having more stations.
Also, there's a DropShuttle smallcraft listed from Objectives LA. Surely that’s the K1 Dropshuttle? The entry in O:LA p27 also truncates the names of various other smallcraft.
You may be right there. I'll scratch that one.
Free-Flight Ltd Orbital Dry dock from Objectives: Free World's League
LES HALLES REST AND REFIT STATION from Objectives: Free World's League
Venusian Solar Shade
These are likely unique stations so there is no real point including them or else you then need to list every single orbital facility.
I actually have a different thread for that!
However, really; aside from the generic orbital factory constellations around such yards; wouldn't every one of the major yard/doc facilities be a custom build? But again; your point is well-made.
Air Car (probably two versions; Hover and VTOL) (MW1E)
Ground Car (MW1E)
Jet Sled (MW1E)
Speeder (MW1E)
Hurricane Air/Hover car---Cyclops Industries product, HB:HS Cyclops Industries profile
While lacking RS, these have all since been converted to support vehicles in AToW p324
So, like a lot of SupVees; we do need to see record sheets and even brief canon fluff write-ups on these then.
Rising Star (SLDF Prototype) – it wasn’t a prototype, it was merely “a ’Mech produced in low numbers during the first Star League and discontinued because it did not fare well.” TR3067 p92
I'll change that. I did not think they made any of the things.
SLDF bullet-proof uniform – has no place being on a list of units.
Chris
Eh, I'm cool with it. I'd be cool including any non-stated/fluffed weapons and equipment for mechwarrior/infantry as well.
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I see the latest were not added so . . .
White Raven
Goliath C
Griffin C
Updates, additions and subtractions made.
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In the new Shrapnel, the Wyvern Mod in "Airs Above" is a Wyvern C, though it's not named as such in the text.
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Aren't the C models just Clan weapons on an IS body?
Such as Warhammer-6R C and Shadow Hawk-2H C...
So wouldn't it be just a mixtech with clan weapons?
Griffin-1N C
Goliath-1H C
TT
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In the new Shrapnel, the Wyvern Mod in "Airs Above" is a Wyvern C, though it's not named as such in the text.
Is it a custom then?
Aren't the C models just Clan weapons on an IS body?
Such as Warhammer-6R C and Shadow Hawk-2H C...
So wouldn't it be just a mixtech with clan weapons?
Griffin-1N C
Goliath-1H C
TT
That seems to be the case in some instances, but either way; they are series-produced items. Just not sure which version they are based on unless it is deliberately mentioned as such.
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The original C models were just salvaged mechs that the Clans slapped a few clanspec weapons on and used for garrison duty during the invasion. The first C mech that was actually a production model that I can think of was the Battlemaster.
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The original 'C's actually featured the IS model they were using and were underweight from converting 3025 classic designs. We now have another generation that uses the latest IS equipment, packs on Clan weapons, and my re-armor them with Clan materials. None are underweight
So its . . Longinus C, Orion C, Tempest C, Griffin C and Goliath C mostly out of one faction- none of which have official sheets.
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The original 'C's actually featured the IS model they were using and were underweight from converting 3025 classic designs. We now have another generation that uses the latest IS equipment, packs on Clan weapons, and my re-armor them with Clan materials. None are underweight
So its . . Longinus C, Orion C, Tempest C, Griffin C and Goliath C mostly out of one faction- none of which have official sheets.
Okay, great! I will add the rest of those then.
Original designations not known though, i take it? So I am using the right name if I list Orion C; it's not propperly Orion ON1-K(C) or something? (That we know of?)
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Yeah, the Orion C, Tempest C, and Longinus C are listed in the new tech section of TRO 3150 but like every other design there (except the Vixen 6), we have yet to receive record sheets (glowers ineffectively in Catalyst's direction).
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Yeah, the Orion C, Tempest C, and Longinus C are listed in the new tech section of TRO 3150 but like every other design there (except the Vixen 6), we have yet to receive record sheets (glowers ineffectively in Catalyst's direction).
Ah, okay. WIll have to change that in the list. I had them from Divided we fall.
Someday; I'd like another section on the list for all the...new-old-new-old...you know what I mean. All those types listed in the TRO that don't have real stats or record sheets.
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Is it a custom then?
Yes and no? It matches the original intent of the "C"'s: it takes an IS chassis and simply slaps on Clan weapons. In this case, the weapon loadout nearly duplicates the IIC. The difference comes into play concerning ammo: the IIC has 2 tons per launcher, but because the IS version has CASE in each torso, it couldn't get both additional tons. Instead, I threw on a third ER Medium laser, I think this makes for a pretty neat little variant.
I -don't- have access to any mech making software, though, but I consider this to have the IS armor layout, not the IIC layout (because that matches the story fluff) and I'm not sure if you can put Clan DHS onto an IS chassis. If so, this has them; if not, then it still has IS HS and will run HOOOOOTTTT!! :D :D
In editing it was called a Wyvern C, but there's probably a 50/50 it might end up being statted as a "Wyvern Lauren" since there's so few Wyverns there's a good chance this is the only one... (IF it EVER gets statted, of course, that's 100% NOT MY CALL and ABOVE MY PAYGRADE. :) :) ;D
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Solaris Skunk Werks is free (though it does require Java, but that's ALSO free): http://www.solarisskunkwerks.com/
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You can put the Clan DHS on the chassis . . . the design is already mixed tech as it is so it could be fine.
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You can put the Clan DHS on the chassis . . . the design is already mixed tech as it is so it could be fine.
Thanks! I was pretty sure, but good to have a confirmation :)
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Yes and no? It matches the original intent of the "C"'s: it takes an IS chassis and simply slaps on Clan weapons. In this case, the weapon loadout nearly duplicates the IIC. The difference comes into play concerning ammo: the IIC has 2 tons per launcher, but because the IS version has CASE in each torso, it couldn't get both additional tons. Instead, I threw on a third ER Medium laser, I think this makes for a pretty neat little variant.
I -don't- have access to any mech making software, though, but I consider this to have the IS armor layout, not the IIC layout (because that matches the story fluff) and I'm not sure if you can put Clan DHS onto an IS chassis. If so, this has them; if not, then it still has IS HS and will run HOOOOOTTTT!! :D :D
In editing it was called a Wyvern C, but there's probably a 50/50 it might end up being statted as a "Wyvern Lauren" since there's so few Wyverns there's a good chance this is the only one... (IF it EVER gets statted, of course, that's 100% NOT MY CALL and ABOVE MY PAYGRADE. :) :) ;D
Well, you're the writer, right?
I haven't read the story yet for the context, but presuming it was possible (and I think it is) I'd think that would be your call, no?
I don't know if, as the creator of a canon product (congrats!) you have a better line to TPTB than we do, but you could ask if it's your call or not in that case.
If not and it's a one-off...well I have a thread for that too! https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=68211.msg1581307#msg1581307 (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=68211.msg1581307#msg1581307)
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Well, you're the writer, right?
I haven't read the story yet for the context, but presuming it was possible (and I think it is) I'd think that would be your call, no?
It was, but I forgot to name it in text, so- no. Not anymore. :D
I don't know if, as the creator of a canon product (congrats!) you have a better line to TPTB than we do, but you could ask if it's your call or not in that case.
Oh, I have -ZERO- line. NONE, I'm just a freelance guy. PLEASE don't misunderstand, I have no powers, no sway, no voice, nada. So, no: the moment the story's accepted, it's out of my hands, the very next story could be someone else coming in and killing every character I wrote, and, well, that's life playing in someone else's IP, you know?
Now, the writers are VERY NICE PEOPLE and we talk to each other, so if someone -WAS- going to play with something I'd written, I think they'd PROBABLY shoot me a note, because they're cool, not because they have too.
So, while I'm super excited to have created a variant (with editorial approval, I didn't sneak nothin' by no one :) ) what happens next is 100% out of my hands. My job is to come up with something cool, put in words, send it in, and to let them do their jobs. :)
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It was, but I forgot to name it in text, so- no. Not anymore. :D
Oh, I have -ZERO- line. NONE, I'm just a freelance guy. PLEASE don't misunderstand, I have no powers, no sway, no voice, nada. So, no: the moment the story's accepted, it's out of my hands, the very next story could be someone else coming in and killing every character I wrote, and, well, that's life playing in someone else's IP, you know?
Now, the writers are VERY NICE PEOPLE and we talk to each other, so if someone -WAS- going to play with something I'd written, I think they'd PROBABLY shoot me a note, because they're cool, not because they have too.
So, while I'm super excited to have created a variant (with editorial approval, I didn't sneak nothin' by no one :) ) what happens next is 100% out of my hands. My job is to come up with something cool, put in words, send it in, and to let them do their jobs. :)
Huh!
Okay, I actually get to put one of my Der Tag references to work! So I made this spreadsheet to show what all above smalla rms is being produced, where in 3099. I tweaked it a fair bit and it shows nothing of the 3rd League, BUT it should be a good enough to look for Wyvern IIC manufacturers outside the Burrocks who, as you likely know started with a cache and turned that into refits and eventually built the things whole-hog.
Okay! So...Outside of the Star Adders; the only people still making Wyverns of any kind in an AU of mine are the Republic by 3099. IIRC the Adders absorbed the Burrocks, so from whence comes the factory...
Thus, I would say that it is reasonable that anyone else in Clan Space or with access to sufficient ClanTech, might be unable to duplicate a Wyvern IIC of any model and they they would likely come up with...your Wyvern C!
So, I need to read that story in Shrapnel for the context now...
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Huh!
Okay, I actually get to put one of my Der Tag references to work! So I made this spreadsheet to show what all above smalla rms is being produced, where in 3099. I tweaked it a fair bit and it shows nothing of the 3rd League, BUT it should be a good enough to look for Wyvern IIC manufacturers outside the Burrocks who, as you likely know started with a cache and turned that into refits and eventually built the things whole-hog.
Okay! So...Outside of the Star Adders; the only people still making Wyverns of any kind in an AU of mine are the Republic by 3099. IIRC the Adders absorbed the Burrocks, so from whence comes the factory...
Thus, I would say that it is reasonable that anyone else in Clan Space or with access to sufficient ClanTech, might be unable to duplicate a Wyvern IIC of any model and they they would likely come up with...your Wyvern C!
So, I need to read that story in Shrapnel for the context now...
I gotchu, fam. ;)
He opened his mouth to speak, then looked past her and frowned. “Is that Zala’s Wyvern?”
She tsked him theatrically. “Detective, I won that ’Mech as isorla in honorable combat.” She smiled as she waved toward the BattleMech.
“My technicians have performed a field refit on it, replacing the Inner Sphere weapons with Clan upgrades. They also installed extended range
medium lasers and anti-infantry weapons on it, almost perfectly replicating our Wyvern IIC model. It has less ammo than our Wyverns,
but with a third medium laser, it will make a most serviceable garrison BattleMech for one of our second-line units one day. For now, however,
since it is currently the only functioning Ghost Bear ’Mech on planet, I have spent hours in the simulator familiarizing myself on it.”
Love your analysis, makes sense. Hope you like the story when you get to it!
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She's gonna have to play w/ heat management too! Unless they have DHS (even IS ones), given limited facilities, might be a bit though.
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Based on the information here; this mech belongs in the "Mech-it Lube"!
I shall endevour to read the story tomorrow in order to get the Pilot's name, so that the entry will coincide with the standard naming convention of customs.
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Someday....i will see Mech-it Lube become canon franchise in a story/novel...someday..
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Did the 'light scout suit , similar to Kage suits' of the Rabid Foxes used to observe the Falcons on Huntress ever set stats? Build by the NAIS. Integral jump pack, full suite of sensor & commo equipment . . . I think they are later to be described as having fired man-pack PPCs.
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Which novel is that in, thanks?
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Sword & Fire from the Twilight of the Clans- the Rabid Team lead is 'thinking' about his suit and the gear being thrown out to support his mission. I know they mix it up in later chapters but I have not read to that point- might get more details then.
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Another one for the list. Had the misfortune to be going through Ideal War the other day and came upon the Earthwerks T-420 hovercraft. It appears to be an infantry carrier, with capacity for at least 12 - so 2 squads. Mentions it has a Dryfus support machine gun, and a turret mounted laser.
Chris
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Another one for the list. Had the misfortune to be going through Ideal War the other day and came upon the Earthwerks T-420 hovercraft. It appears to be an infantry carrier, with capacity for at least 12 - so 2 squads. Mentions it has a Dryfus support machine gun, and a turret mounted laser.
Chris
They named a machine gun after Richard Dryfus? (runs)
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Which novel is that in, thanks?
Did the 'light scout suit , similar to Kage suits' of the Rabid Foxes used to observe the Falcons on Huntress ever set stats? Build by the NAIS. Integral jump pack, full suite of sensor & commo equipment . . . I think they are later to be described as having fired man-pack PPCs.
They are able to operate external sensor equipment- both optical tripod mounted type & remote seismic panel- along with a sound supressed Imperator submachine gun and a Thunderstroke guass rifle w/5 shot mag or SRM1 launcher- maybe infantry maybe mech scale- with 2 shot clips & able to haul 4 clips which can be inferno loads (makes me think infantry). They have a stealth armor capability but can take very little damage- RPG-wise one took a long burst to the torso from a Elemental's AM machine gun which killed the trooper.
So . . . PA(L) or light, but b/c of the comparison to the Kage I lean light though it jumps it does not have the partial wing. It appears to have a placeholder in the MUL- http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=NAIS+Power+Suit (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=NAIS+Power+Suit) though with what has been said about 'mechs, mechs and more mechs' I do not think we will get this any time soon. The source is listed as Day of Heros rather than the SJ book, so it might be a different version of the table top abstract GDL Scout.
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I gotchu, fam. ;)
Love your analysis, makes sense. Hope you like the story when you get to it!
Added!
Did the 'light scout suit , similar to Kage suits' of the Rabid Foxes used to observe the Falcons on Huntress ever set stats? Build by the NAIS. Integral jump pack, full suite of sensor & commo equipment . . . I think they are later to be described as having fired man-pack PPCs.
Sword & Fire from the Twilight of the Clans- the Rabid Team lead is 'thinking' about his suit and the gear being thrown out to support his mission. I know they mix it up in later chapters but I have not read to that point- might get more details then.
They are able to operate external sensor equipment- both optical tripod mounted type & remote seismic panel- along with a sound supressed Imperator submachine gun and a Thunderstroke guass rifle w/5 shot mag or SRM1 launcher- maybe infantry maybe mech scale- with 2 shot clips & able to haul 4 clips which can be inferno loads (makes me think infantry). They have a stealth armor capability but can take very little damage- RPG-wise one took a long burst to the torso from a Elemental's AM machine gun which killed the trooper.
So . . . PA(L) or light, but b/c of the comparison to the Kage I lean light though it jumps it does not have the partial wing. It appears to have a placeholder in the MUL- http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=NAIS+Power+Suit (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Name=NAIS+Power+Suit) though with what has been said about 'mechs, mechs and more mechs' I do not think we will get this any time soon. The source is listed as Day of Heros rather than the SJ book, so it might be a different version of the table top abstract GDL Scout.
Done and done! And another great example of what we're looking for here!
Another one for the list. Had the misfortune to be going through Ideal War the other day and came upon the Earthwerks T-420 hovercraft. It appears to be an infantry carrier, with capacity for at least 12 - so 2 squads. Mentions it has a Dryfus support machine gun, and a turret mounted laser.
Chris
Chris,
If you need to talk; I am here and we all value your sacrifice. Added.
They named a machine gun after Richard Dryfus? (runs)
Wait...you *haven't*?
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From Shadows of War, chapter 20- about 80% through the book- we get something I have wanted for a while! A converted tracked APC which normally carried a squad of infantry was modified to serve as mobile FDC and considered part of the ELH's artillery tube & A4 batteries. The vehicle & captain in it was coordinating the DEST TAG/A4 ambush of Jags advancing into the mountains.
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From Shadows of War, chapter 20- about 80% through the book- we get something I have wanted for a while! A converted tracked APC which normally carried a squad of infantry was modified to serve as mobile FDC and considered part of the ELH's artillery tube & A4 batteries. The vehicle & captain in it was coordinating the DEST TAG/A4 ambush of Jags advancing into the mountains.
Holy guacamole! You got that right!!
And should be an easy mod too. figure standard APC with 1T of comms gear in place of the troops?
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Holy guacamole! You got that right!!
And should be an easy mod too. figure standard APC with 1T of comms gear in place of the troops?
Sure . . . but its the undefined function I am interested in- frex, I have long wanted artillery to be able to do a 'firing pattern' to represent all the tubes being set to the same traverse/azimuth/elevation on the same charge which means the whole set of guns tied into a FDC get 1 roll and then you determine drift for the whole pattern. IE, for 4 guns say the center of the pattern has target hexes being the 2/3/5/6 it would make a roughly 5 hex wide impact area with the center hex getting splash from all 4 impacts and 4 hexes get splash each from 2 targets, and a few more with just single splash.
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I don't think 2 tons of Communications Gear buys you anything more than the inherent 1 ton that comes with the controls, so you might as well keep the troop compartment for spotters...
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Sure . . . but its the undefined function I am interested in- frex, I have long wanted artillery to be able to do a 'firing pattern' to represent all the tubes being set to the same traverse/azimuth/elevation on the same charge which means the whole set of guns tied into a FDC get 1 roll and then you determine drift for the whole pattern. IE, for 4 guns say the center of the pattern has target hexes being the 2/3/5/6 it would make a roughly 5 hex wide impact area with the center hex getting splash from all 4 impacts and 4 hexes get splash each from 2 targets, and a few more with just single splash.
I came up with a house rule for something somewhat like that when I did my MRL rules for Der Tag. it was a lot more random though; you basically walked your hits willy-nilly with the scatter dice. But in that case; inaccuracy was a feature and not a bug; going for mass saturation.
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I don't think 2 tons of Communications Gear buys you anything more than the inherent 1 ton that comes with the controls, so you might as well keep the troop compartment for spotters...
I think this is more for the flavour.
Although, as noted; the spotters---in the form of DEST commandos---were already down-range.
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Hey, beachhead1985. Did you happen record the One-Mech Shuttles mentioned in the Robinson-Class Transport (Warship) in TRO: 3075?
I was reading it the other night, and it mentions that 1-Mech Shuttles being used help relay BattleMechs to the surface. (Hugely waste relay one Mech down!). That certainly a Never-Seen, though the art work of the Robinson may have glimpse of it (not sure artist knew about the thing), no stats.
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Hey, beachhead1985. Did you happen record the One-Mech Shuttles mentioned in the Robinson-Class Transport (Warship) in TRO: 3075?
I was reading it other night, and it mentions that 1-Mech Shuttles being used help relay BattleMechs to the surface. (Hugely waste relay one Mech down!). That certainly a Never-Seen, though the art work of the Robinson may have glimpse of it (not sure artist knew about the thing), no stats.
NO! I do not have that one!!
And the closest we've ever come in canon was the old description for the MkVII Landing craft being able to haul 65-ton tanks!
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Another one from TRO:3075 mentioned in the fluff of the DemolitionMech. A competitor if the industrialmech made by Defiance industries named the 'Zilla.
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As the fluff of the Demolitionmech describes it as being slower but cheaper than its competition, the 'Zilla can be surmised to be using a fusion engine instead of a fuel cell.
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Another one from TRO:3075 mentioned in the fluff of the DemolitionMech. A competitor if the industrialmech made by Defiance industries named the 'Zilla.
Thank you! That's good thinking!
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I have a new one (at least it is not featured in the page 1 list). The Screamer. A "Doomsday" Mech designed for Kerensky. It is mentioned in the fluff of the Rifleman III (XTRO:Gunslingers).
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I have a new one (at least it is not featured in the page 1 list). The Screamer. A "Doomsday" Mech designed for Kerensky. It is mentioned in the fluff of the Rifleman III (XTRO:Gunslingers).
Liberation of Terra Vol 2. Far from a Doomsday Machine but developed at the same time as the Rifleman III and Martar as Amaris demanded a wonder weapon that would destroy Kerensky.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Screamer
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Liberation of Terra Vol 2. Far from a Doomsday Machine but developed at the same time as the Rifleman III and Martar as Amaris demanded a wonder weapon that would destroy Kerensky.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Screamer
Ouch. I forgot that one. My dreams are shattered. :'( :'( :'(
Nice LAM, BTW
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*pats G&D on shoulder*
Cheer up! you have an allotment of dreams that have not been used up ... unless you post a lot and get shot down, the club for that has free membership! No experience needed either!
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Not sure it counts, but the Explorer Jumpship has two variants with no record Sheets. Their a HPG variant and the Sub capital Weapon Variant.
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Not sure it coubts but the. Explorer. Jumpship has two variants wirh no record. Sheets. HPG variant and the Sub capital Weapon Variant.
Where are those found?
They ring a bell, but I just haven't been able to find the time to round up all the old/new/new/old/new/new/new, ect entries.
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Where are those found?
They ring a bell, but I just haven't been able to find the time to round up all the old/new/new/old/new/new/new, ect entries.
TRO3075 Helm memory core section for the Mariks. MUL also lists them.
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TRO3075 Helm memory core section for the Mariks. MUL also lists them.
Perfect then! I will add those.
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Was the fireboats from the Reunification War sourcebook (also in The Periphery) mention? They were used by the Taurians to crash into Warships to kill them. We never got stats or get information what they looked like. They may have been stocked small craft or maybe have been cobble together ships. They were mentioned in better detail in Historical Reunification book.
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Was the fireboats from the Reunification War sourcebook (also in The Periphery) mention? They were used by the Taurians to crash into Warships to kill them. We never got stats or get information what they looked like. They may have been stocked small craft or maybe have been cobble together ships. They were mentioned in better detail in Historical Reunification book.
I am sure we never got stats for them. Let me see what is said.
Okay; cracked my copy open and I find lost of mentions, but no stats. if i was to guess; you'd be taking common cargo dropships of the era, re-designing them so that much of their cargo space is discard to make them lighter (and thus faster) and adding in either a number of boobytraps or a single custom-make nuke.
I'll make an addition.
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Opens up TRO: Golden Century...
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Dang! What a rush crossing a few of these out! Rock on TPTB!
Also added the Jupiter Variant from Sword of Sedition, as noted by Templar87.
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Speaking of crossing some off the list, here are a couple you missed:
Awesome -11H (recguide 4)
Clan Rhino BA (it was on the list twice)
Fox (goldcent)
Griffin C (recguide 1)
Goliath C (recguide 1)
Minsk (goldcent)
Ogotai (goldcent)
Qasar (goldcent)
Vision Quest (goldcent)
In exchange, I offer you the Royal Valkyrie, mentioned in the write-up for the Masauwu's notable pilot.
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Speaking of crossing some off the list, here are a couple you missed:
Awesome -11H (recguide 4)
Clan Rhino BA (it was on the list twice)
Fox (goldcent)
Griffin C (recguide 1)
Goliath C (recguide 1)
Minsk (goldcent)
Ogotai (goldcent)
Qasar (goldcent)
Vision Quest (goldcent)
In exchange, I offer you the Royal Valkyrie, mentioned in the write-up for the Masauwu's notable pilot.
Done and Done!
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Opens up TRO: Golden Century...
WATER ELEMENTAL MINING SUIT = Aquatic Clan Exoskeleton; Elemental precursor
;)
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WATER ELEMENTAL MINING SUIT = Aquatic Clan Exoskeleton; Elemental precursor
;)
I named it something else in the list, under the presumption that there were others. But yeah; crossed off now.
:)
Feels so good!!
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Just thought TRO GC would have been a perfect opportunity for the HBK-2, too. The idea of a standard tech dual AC-20 HBK is tantalizing, have designed my own, but that's not the same as the PTB making one and putting in some very cool fluff. Especially using improved ACs from original TRO 3050 and IO.
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Just thought TRO GC would have been a perfect opportunity for the HBK-2, too. The idea of a standard tech dual AC-20 HBK is tantalizing, have designed my own, but that's not the same as the PTB making one and putting in some very cool fluff. Especially using improved ACs from original TRO 3050 and IO.
How could I forget that one!?
From the original entry, I was never sure if it had dual AC/20s or just a pair of lighter dual autocannon.
However, I was always pretty sure it was definitively an SLDF-design, if a very late one.
I will check and add that one though.
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How could I forget that one!?
From the original entry, I was never sure if it had dual AC/20s or just a pair of lighter dual autocannon.
However, I was always pretty sure it was definitively an SLDF-design, if a very late one.
I will check and add that one though.
It had a single AC-20, and no Jump Jets.
As the SLDF use the HBK-4G, it might be that the HBK is functionally identical to that variant.
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out of curiosity, where do we get any info on the HBK-2's loadout? the only reference i know of is the original TRO:3058
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out of curiosity, where do we get any info on the HBK-2's loadout? the only reference i know of is the original TRO:3058
There.
Based upon the text the Clans added a second Autocannon to take advantage of the smaller components, and also added jump jets. Therefore, although the IIC was based upon the HBK-2, the HBK-2 had no jump jets,and only a single class 20 AC.
"Initial hardware assessments...allowing the installation of two rapid-fire autocannons rather than a single AC-20. The higher tech also allows room for the installation of jump jets..."
There is also the initial description...the HBK-2 is a basic design that has remained largely unchanged since its inception.
You could argue that it doesn't specifically give the info, but the text seems clear to me
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I thought you had the HBK-2 in the list from very early on.
"two rapid-fire" could lead one to believe that means UACs over standard ACs. I mean they're all rapid fire, the newer ones are just rapid-er fire, or ultra-rapid fire.
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I just realized something. The Fluff for the Hunchback IIC mentions that captured units by Inner sphere forces were modified, namely one of the Ultra A/C 20s was removed for more armor among unspecified changes made to make the usable non suicidal units. I don't think i have ever seen a record sheets for the modded / refitted Hunchback IICs.
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I thought you had the HBK-2 in the list from very early on.
"two rapid-fire" could lead one to believe that means UACs over standard ACs. I mean they're all rapid fire, the newer ones are just rapid-er fire, or ultra-rapid fire.
Two rapid fire ACs could indeed refer to the ultra class which equips the IIC. However, the two replaced a single AC20.
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I just realized something. The Fluff for the Hunchback IIC mentions that captured units by Inner sphere forces were modified, namely one of the Ultra A/C 20s was removed for more armor among unspecified changes made to make the usable non suicidal units. I don't think i have ever seen a record sheets for the modded / refitted Hunchback IICs.
Dang! You're totally right!
And I think you guys all have a good argument for ambiguity in the HBK-2's configuration as well; so I will make those changes.
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Two rapid fire ACs could indeed refer to the ultra class which equips the IIC. However, the two replaced a single AC20.
*handwavium x10*!!
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I think i spotted a new unit in Honour's Gauntlet novella. The defending civilians among argo and mining mechs had a Quad CargoMech which appears to be fitted with ram plates like the Rhino from Operational Turning Points Hanaseatic Crusade. It was being used to ram a larger Clan assault mech and show no signs of damage after plowing through buildings. Size was not very specific buit seem to be medium or large CargoMech. It very well be a Uni CargoMech but ramming seemed unusual way it was being described as being not damaged as much it should be. The author was vague about that.
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I think i spotted a new unit in Honour's Gauntlet novella. The defending civilians among argo and mining mechs had a Quad CargoMech which appears to be fitted with ram plates like the Rhino from Operational Turning Points Hanaseatic Crusade. It was being used to ram a larger Clan assault mech and show no signs of damage after plowing through buildings. Size was not very specific buit seem to be medium or large CargoMech. It very well be a Uni CargoMech but ramming seemed unusual way it was being described as being not damaged as much it should be. The author was vague about that.
That sounds like a one-off to me with that info. However; I will list it in the Mech-It Lube
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Have we mentioned Troglodyte tunnel tanks? It was mentioned in the TRO: 3085 Suppliment, i was recently re-reading the TROs (again.) i thought i mentioned it, but its not on beachead1985's list. This was noted as a specialized tank used to root out Rim World Republic troops in their fortified areas in the Manta & Moray Attack Submarines entry, p18 in the Overview section.
Also mentioned in the Manta and Moray Attack Subs, the Moray Heavy Attack Sub's builder, Sungdong-STX Shipbuilding also is noted having built underwater aerospace carriers for the Star League.
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Have we mentioned Troglodyte tunnel tanks? It was mentioned in the TRO: 3085 Suppliment, i was recently re-reading the TROs (again.) i thought i mentioned it, but its not on beachead1985's list. This was noted as a specialized tank used to root out Rim World Republic troops in their fortified areas in the Manta & Moray Attack Submarines entry, p18 in the Overview section.
Also mentioned in the Manta and Moray Attack Subs, the Moray Heavy Attack Sub's builder, Sungdong-STX Shipbuilding also is noted having built underwater aerospace carriers for the Star League.
AHA!!!!
THAT'S WHERE THAT SILLY THING WAS HIDING!!!
Well spotted, Wrangler! Man! I was looking in the SLDF Field Manual, Liberation of Terra, et al. Totally in the wrong place.
So the Troglodyte is kinda on the list, but described as a "Star League Tunnel Tank". Underwater CVs besides the Lysander? Sign me up!
So I will edit and add your contributions to the list. Thank you!
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The sub has to be at least 3 hexes long to launch, which makes it a major target. Even with amphibian mods, those aero are still going to need lift spaces large enough to off load.
TT
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Okay, i got another never-seen stats. I mentioned it before in threads years ago.
This comes from fine folks of WizKids, who made this Jumpship for i think Technology of Destruction book, p31, Magellen II-Class Jumpship.
There even a picture of the thing.
(https://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/1/19/Magellan_MkII.jpg?timestamp=20160712141650)
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Okay, i got another never-seen stats. I mentioned it before in threads years ago.
This comes from fine folks of WizKids, who made this Jumpship for i think Technology of Destruction book, p31, Magellen II-Class Jumpship.
There even a picture of the thing.
Totally not an unseen design, but an unstatted one.
And by Ray's canonical ruling, it's not a distinct class (so implicitly a subvariant of the Magellan).
All info in the Sarna article (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Magellan#Variants) (naturally :) ).
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Totally not an unseen design, but an unstatted one.
And by Ray's canonical ruling, it's not a distinct class (so implicitly a subvariant of the Magellan).
All info in the Sarna article (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Magellan#Variants) (naturally :) ).
Okay, i got another never-seen stats. I mentioned it before in threads years ago.
This comes from fine folks of WizKids, who made this Jumpship for i think Technology of Destruction book, p31, Magellen II-Class Jumpship.
There even a picture of the thing.
(https://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/1/19/Magellan_MkII.jpg?timestamp=20160712141650)
As an un-statted variant, it fits.
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I got one!
It's on the cover of MaxTech even...
What's the stats and name of that ICEMech, the one holding the hose in front of the Zues-X?
Never really sure about that one, would make a helluva nice militia troopermech!
TT
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I got one!
It's on the cover of MaxTech even...
What's the stats and name of that ICEMech, the one holding the hose in front of the Zues-X?
Never really sure about that one, would make a helluva nice militia troopermech!
TT
I couldn't tell if it was powered armor or a light industrial 'mech. I always wondered what that thing was!
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I think i found a naval. support vehicle. I think. It in the XTRO Republic. Books for the Hexareme HQ Hover Vehicleit mentioned. As it being used as escort for the Leander II.
I think the Leander II some kind naval support vech
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The latest Recognition Guide (7) gives us the White Raven, the Atlas AS8-K, and the Lightning. All three are mentioned in the write-up for the Rec Guide's new mech, the War Crow.
Edit: Got another one in the Warhammer's Notable Pilots section, a Davion heavy mech called an Inferno.
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So 60-75 ton big brother of the Firestarter?
Hmm...
* goes off to plot *
TT
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It's got one or more PPCs, that's all that the entry reveals. Similarly, the White Raven has FL armor and the Atlas 8K has Ballistic Reinforced armor.
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Impression i got was the White Raven is earlier model of the War Crow. Right?
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Do we actually knew it's a 'Mech?
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Impression i got was the White Raven is earlier model of the War Crow. Right?
After seeing the War Crow, I suspect that the White Raven is a renaming of the Black Python (Viper), but we will have to see.
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The Cataphract fluff from Ilclan RG6 Gives us the Thunderbolt 12R (stealth armored RoTS design produced on Tikonov, probably in CC hands by now)
The War Crow fluff from Ilclan RG7 mentions another Raven Alliance Omnimech.
The Hammerhead fluff from Ilclan RG5 mentions a Wolf design the Amarok
The novel Children of Kerensky adds us a few more toys for the wolves: Jian class dropship, Piledriver dropship variant, Callisto battle armor, Artos and Athalwolf Mechs.
Another addition there is a Mech for the Bears, Kontio.
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Impression i got was the White Raven is earlier model of the War Crow. Right?
I think it's a precursor. possibly a Second Line.
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Okay, i got another never-seen stats. I mentioned it before in threads years ago.
This comes from fine folks of WizKids, who made this Jumpship for i think Technology of Destruction book, p31, Magellen II-Class Jumpship.
There even a picture of the thing.
https://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/1/19/Magellan_MkII.jpg?timestamp=20160712141650
visually the only major difference can see with the standard magellan is the sail shape and the location where it attaches.. and that is easily within the "common user variance" realm, IMO.
looking through, the Mk.II seems to mount a grav deck (which the standard does not). i would guess it probably sacrifices some of its fuel capacity for a gravdeck and (hopefully) more space for cargo. possibly some additional docking collars? (some of those lumps look rather like docked versions of the dropship that is thrusting away.)
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Without a definite source book for Republic of the Sphere, we will not know if it was one their ships that was pulling a Terran Hegemony/Star League missions of surveillance of the other Great Houses and other nations of the Periphery make sure their behaving themselves. It what i would have though the ship would be doing say in Republic service with perhaps some working with Interstellar Expeditions before they went out business (i think their gone, given how there artificial no-travel zone north the Inner Sphere).
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After seeing the War Crow, I suspect that the White Raven is a renaming of the Black Python (Viper), but we will have to see.
It was originally mentioned in the book with the Dominator cover and Adrian pretty much hinted at it being the Python. The story tells us it is a revamped design from a Clan that was a relic of the past. Faster than 4/6, 75t, removed pulse lasers . . . yeah, its the new art for the Black Python updated to current tech IMO. The War Crow's giving it FL armor was the only new information IIRC.
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A chance encounter on Sarna means I've a new one for the list: The Shadow-Griffin (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Shadow-Griffin)
Based upon the text this seems to be more then a one-off design and was at least some what common, even if the design was a FrankenMech.
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So you think the War Crow OmniMech is in fact reworked Black Python aka Viper?
(http://ironwindmetals.com/store/images/btmechs/20-368.jpg)
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So you think the War Crow OmniMech is in fact reworked Black Python aka Viper?
(http://ironwindmetals.com/store/images/btmechs/20-368.jpg)
Or it could use the chassis as its basis, the way the Hellfire uses the Lupus.
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Could be . . . but the White Raven is hinted as being a rebuilt/upgraded Black Python with the Ravens the suspected builders still doing it to piss on their old foe.
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I still puzzle WHY it has to be reused old mech we already know about with COMPLETELY new name. White Raven have to be Black Python, why can't we get new new old unknown mech. Reuse stuff almost tells me their out ideas.
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I still puzzle WHY it has to be reused old mech we already know about with COMPLETELY new name. White Raven have to be Black Python, why can't we get new new old unknown mech. Reuse stuff almost tells me their out ideas.
Not like it doesn’t have precedent (Katana) in BTech universe.
Nor is it without precedent in real life. How many times has one nation reverse engineered something from another nation (especially an enemy), built their own version (that sometimes/often looks the same as the original, and called it by a new name.
Answer: a lot.
Ruger
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The Ice Ferret was originally the Wolf Hunter, the Conjurer was originally the Wolverine IIC, ect. Don't personally see it as a one for one name swap only because we are seeing so many new machines but rebranding a mech is common on the BTU.
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Fluff/universe background it is extremely feasible considering the Raven's convoluted internal politics. Heck, it might be given to us as the first mass produced Ferro-Lam armored mech- doing it before putting that skin on Omnis- and it will have enough changes incorporating new/updated tech that renaming it will make sense- besides the FL armor it could have a SC, or ER Pulse weapons, etc.
It is also literally a big middle finger to their old enemies. Never underestimate peoples' desire to be petty or insulting.
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Not like it doesn’t have precedent (Katana) in BTech universe.
Nor is it without precedent in real life. How many times has one nation reverse engineered something from another nation (especially an enemy), built their own version (that sometimes/often looks the same as the original, and called it by a new name.
Answer: a lot.
Ruger
basicly most of the Iranian Military force
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basicly most of the Iranian Military force
a lot of the early modern chinese military
and quite a bit of Nazi Germany's stuff after ww2.
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a lot of the early modern chinese military
Lol, early? There is a reason the Russians will not sell them tech/platform demonstrators for their latest & greatest any more. Heck, when the US Army adopted the beret for all troops I heard a lot of jokes about how they kept adopting kit from 'losers' for some reason- the Kevlar was a coal-scuttle pattern (case of form follows function) and the beret.
Besides if the technology has not radically changed, there is no reason older platforms are not still valid springboards. It is not like the Horses adapted the Black Python as a design (vs capabilities) for a new QuadVee design . . . THAT would be a headscratcher.
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With the excitement for Golden Century, I've been inspired to share my personal list of those units and equipment which have been mentioned once or twice in some source somewhere, but never fully stated-out or given art. I hope someday all of these will appear in print.
So here is my list, what is yours? Did I make any mistakes? What did I miss? Bring on the weird stuff!
Ye Olde Apocryphal designs from the Magazines that could be/need to be canonized/re-canonized
Achilles ACH-09S---Battletechnology 18
Alliance ALI-1A---Battletechnology 7
Ambassador MBSDR-1---StarDrive V1N1
Apollo APL-1J---StarDrive V1N1
Ariane ARN-E1---StarDate V3N3
Athena FDC Carrier---Battletechnology 8
Avalon Arms Support System---Battletechnology The Early Years
Avatar AVT-7A---Battletechnology 21
Badger-Class medium tank (obsolete basis for SP Sniper, using the same SLDI TRK/5(B) Chassis)---Battletechnology 0204
Bandicoot KGR-BCT---Battletechnology 19
Behemoth BMH-1T "belfry"---Battletechnology 11
Boomer BMR-100---Battletechnology 19
Brawler Mech---Battletechnology 13
BRN-1 Brian---Battletechnology 13
Bushido BSD-7K---Battletechnology 18
Cavalier Class Dropship---StarDate V3N3
Centurion Maximus CNT-9---Battletechnology 15
Cerberus CBR-6S ASF---Battletechnology 10
CGR-1A2 Charger-KH---Battletechnology 13
Chimera Ch-1M "perfected quad mech"---Battletechnology The Early Years
Clytemnestra CTP-005---Battletechnology 20
Cobra FrankenMech---Battletechnology The Lost Issues
Common Chassis vehicles 100, 75 ton tracked and 50 ton Hover---Battletechnology 19
Cyclone F-95---StarDate V3N3
Dervish DV-7S---Battletechnology 11
Dwarf Wombat KGY-WBT---Battletechnology 19
Fisher FSH-9R Recon/Spec-Ops carrier mech---Battletechnology The Early Years
Foxfire FXR-4R---StarDrive V1N1
Frankenstein`s Monster FrankenMech---Battletechnology 20
Gadfly GDF-L4---StarDate V3N3
Goshawk VTOL Gunship---Battletechnology 9
Gremlin Armoured car---StarDate V3N4
Gryphon Scout Hover Tank---Battletechnology 19
Guardian---Battletechnology 13
Guppy Scout Submarine GU-2P---Battletechnology 12
Harrier Hovertank---Battletechnology 0202
Hedgehog---Also now attributed as the first Tripod in other sources. DO IT!
Huntress artillery mech (it`s got tracks, so I think TPTB would be into it for the MWDA connection there)---Battletechnology 14
Interloper Urban Scout URS-12A---Battletechnology 16
Iroquois Transport VTOL---Battletechnology 9
Javelin/Enforcer/Wolverine FrankenMech---Battletechnology The Early Years
Joey KGR-000---Battletechnology 19
Junior JNR-7P---StarDrive V1N1
Kangaroo KGR-00---Battletechnology 19
Ki-Rin VTOL Gunship---Battletechnology 9
Kookaburra KBA-01---Battletechnology 19
Leviathan LVN-1X "Belfry" A barely mobile wheeled tank---Battletechnology 11
Life-Saver Medivac VTOL---Battletechnology 9
Lumberer FrankenMech---Battletechnology The Lost Issues
Lynx LYN-5X (Basically looks like a shadowhawk variant)----Battletechnology 9
Malleus MLS-1A---Battletechnology 11
Mantis LAM---Battletechnology 15
Mauler Cititank---Battletechnology 16
Minnow Sub MNO-5W---Battletechnology 12
Mite MTE-12C---StarDate V3N6
Monster "The Monster" Frankenmech---Battletechnology 13
Munin MN-1B LAM---Battletechnology 10
New Gladiator FrankenMech---Battletechnology The Lost Issues
Omega 137-A---Battletechnology 14
Original Titan(s)---Battletechnology 17, 11
Quicksilver Hoverscout---StarDate V3N4
Rampage RMP-1C---Battletechnology 16
Rattlesnake JR7-31P (Jenner laserboat variant)---Battletechnology 21
Rhino RHN-10 Melee Quad mech---Battletechnology 12
Rifleman-K (Drops the AC/5s for two more Large Lasers, an SRM4 and 7 heatsinks----Battletechnology 9
Roo Scout RO-2A---Battletechnology 14
Royalty-Class Royal Yacht (Armed Jumpship Amaris Star/Lorelei's Hope)---Battletechnology 20
Sandman LAMs---Battletechnology The Early Years
Screaming Hawk---Battletechnology 7
Shadow Hawk Spy (Spec Ops Shadowhawk)---Battletechnology 21
Siren SL-23---StarDate V3N3
Sky Ranger High Schout Drone Carrier---Battletechnology 19
Skyhook 30ton Transport VTOL---Battletechnology 9
Slowpoke SLP-2U---StarDrive V1N1
Sniper ammo carrier---Battletechnology 0204
SP Sniper---Battletechnology 0204
Stiletto STL-7D---StarDrive V1N1
Striga Conventional Fighter STC-13---Battletechnology 12
Striped Bandicoot KGY-BCS---Battletechnology 19
SubUrbanMech---Battletechnology 18
Sylph SYH-A5 Hovertank---Battletechnology The Early Years
Templar TMPL-1R---Battletechnology 15
Traverse TR-11A---StarDate V3N3
Trooper FrankenMech---Battletechnology The Lost Issues
UrbanMech, Modified---Battletechnology 18
Ventilator VNT-1A---Battletechnology 15
Viking Hydrofoil---Battletechnology 0204
Wallaby KGR-WA---Battletechnology 19
Weasel WS3-L and Wild Weasel WS3-L2---Battletechnology 16
Whirlwind Hover Tank---Battletechnology 0202
Wildcat Aerotanker from Battletechnology 10
Wisp WS-2P---Battletechnology The Early Years
Wolfman FrankenMech---Battletechnology 0102
Wombat KGR-W0---Battletechnology 19
Wyvern VTOL Gunship---Battletechnology 9
Zaibatsu-Class Orbital manufacturing Facility---Battletechnology The Early Years
The designs you mention from Battletechnology 9 are some of my favorites from the magazine!
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With all these mentionings of mechs and designs lost to BattleTechnology. I hope Shrapnel picks up steam, ends up giving us TOTALLY NEW designs. Even if art not unlike the ones in RecGuides. Anything new is better than nothing at all.
Back to our regular scheduled, lost design hunt.
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Wow, guys! Great work!
I have added and updated all the suggested entries.
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Well, the Inferno can be taken off the list, since it showed up in the latest Recognition Guide.
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Well, the Inferno can be taken off the list, since it showed up in the latest Recognition Guide.
Tracking.
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Rec Guide 9, 75 ton Davion omnimech.
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Another Rec Guide mention: the Stormwolf. We know that it's a Wolf Empire mech that moves around 8/12 and apparently it has MASC and/or a Supercharger since it's described as being able to keep pace with the Ion Sparrow and move faster than it in short bursts. And it mounts plasma weapons and autocannons of an unspecified type. And given the line about retaliatory laser fire from the Ion Sparrows being completely ineffective it's probably got Reflective Armor as well.
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Another Rec Guide mention: the Stormwolf. We know that it's a Wolf Empire mech that moves around 8/12 and apparently it has MASC and/or a Supercharger since it's described as being able to keep pace with the Ion Sparrow and move faster than it in short bursts. And it mounts plasma weapons and autocannons of an unspecified type. And given the line about retaliatory laser fire from the Ion Sparrows being completely ineffective it's probably got Reflective Armor as well.
This latest edition was the second-to-last of the rec guides, correct?
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11 of 22
We get one more at the end of the month and then the writers take a well-deserved break for a bit before unleashing the next wave
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This latest edition was the second-to-last of the rec guides, correct?
There's going to be another short break after the next rec guide.
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In Sarna the Ishtar has the following fluff: "Though the original design was faster, over the years the tank has become slower and better armored." Derp -- RiF (reading is fundamental)
I think there's a few more Veh's that something like that too ... (might be some, but see above)
AHA, maybe this was it? What was the original design?
Originally an old Clan design, the Kestrel was redesigned in 3007 by Wolf's Dragoons for their special operations teams ...
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Okay, I am going to wait on the last of the Rec Guides before I add anything more to the list; I want to see if they close the circle on it themselves.
Still hoping for a collected Rec Guide TRO...but I doubt they could collect all of it in one product.
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AHA, maybe this was it? What was the original design?
Possible clan upgrade to the Royal Nightshade?
TT
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Okay, I am going to wait on the last of the Rec Guides before I add anything more to the list; I want to see if they close the circle on it themselves.
Still hoping for a collected Rec Guide TRO...but I doubt they could collect all of it in one product.
Depends on how well it sells. From what little i've heard so far, it's successful for the most part.
I expect all the new new designs will make it, with the featured unseen/KS redesigns being added in there for more substance. I expect the variants be put into it's own section like 3075/3085/3045/3050 New Tech Update page with text listing for the most part.
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We ever include a AC-equipped Vindicator?
-
We ever include a AC-equipped Vindicator?
Air conditioning is a waste of the Chancellor's vital resources.
-
Air conditioning is a waste of the Chancellor's vital resources.
Doesn't need air conditioning, it has water cooling 8)
-
Air conditioning is a waste of the Chancellor's vital resources.
I thought the air conditioning was provided by the Davion mechwarriors shooting the Vindicator full of holes
-
Sadly, in my experience at least, those holes were insufficient to disable the Vindicators in question... Those things were nearly impossible to destroy! ::)
-
Question?
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Daemon (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Daemon)
While researching, stumbled across the above, is it on your list?
TT
-
Question?
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Daemon (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Daemon)
While researching, stumbled across the above, is it on your list?
TT
Nice find, truetanker!
Well, its certainly been officially as an official mech, it has a MUL listing (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4037/daemon-standard). Just no stats or anything.
-
yup, been a (little-)known quantity for ten years now. like the rising star, it's a unit that only exists in another mech's tro entry
-
Like the Draconis built Uma-class Jumpship...
No stats, and it came before the Leviathan-class jumper!
Of which we have stats for, finally.
( It speaks volumes of the DCA to make a better version of the Invader to carry 4 collars or to add a few fighters for defense. )
TT
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Do the Pride Conventional Fighter and Thunderbird Strike Fighter count? They were in the Interstellar Expeditions RATs and said to be in XTRO: Deep Periphery, which was later cancelled. Because of the cancellation, (semi-?)official errata was issued by Herb to replace those entries with existing units.
They were scrubbed from the tables, but does that mean they no longer exist?
-
Like the Draconis built Uma-class Jumpship...
No stats, and it came before the Leviathan-class jumper!
Of which we have stats for, finally.
( It speaks volumes of the DCA to make a better version of the Invader to carry 4 collars or to add a few fighters for defense. )
TT
Don't think we have any information on the Uma. It may be a dead design, a specialty unit produced to order, an ancient keepsake or a top of the line Clan design captured by the IS and assigned to the EC as it might not stand out in Clanspace.
A DC design is most likely but other than the fact the DC has one, I don't think we have any other info.
-
Speaking of Aerospace, the MUL lists a "Mark V Landing Craft", and claims it was listed in DropShips & JumpShips. Is that a typo, or what? ???
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Like the Draconis built Uma-class Jumpship...
No stats, and it came before the Leviathan-class jumper!
Of which we have stats for, finally.
( It speaks volumes of the DCA to make a better version of the Invader to carry 4 collars or to add a few fighters for defense. )
TT
You got source for the Uma your citing it from?
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Speaking of Aerospace, the MUL lists a "Mark V Landing Craft", and claims it was listed in DropShips & JumpShips. Is that a typo, or what? ???
Correction: the MUL claims 3057r. Is it in fact a separate entry from the Mark VII in 3057r?
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the landing craft in D&J and 3057r are different machines - the latter 50 tons heavier than the former. i assume the mark v is an earlier version that received a mention at some point but never was fully statted out. someone with knowledge of the entry process like nckestrel or cavingjan would have to point to the providence of the mark v's
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The DS&JS version was essentially an ASF (in an era before "Light Vehicle Bays" were 50 tons).
-
Don't think we have any information on the Uma. It may be a dead design, a specialty unit produced to order, an ancient keepsake or a top of the line Clan design captured by the IS and assigned to the EC as it might not stand out in Clanspace.
A DC design is most likely but other than the fact the DC has one, I don't think we have any other info.
Wild speculation from context suggests that the Uma class is most likely a smallish JumpShip with no more than 3 hardpoints - because the Explorer Corps, who're the user of the only known such vessel in canon, seem to deliberately eschew larger JumpShips. They explicitly don't use Star Lord, Leviathan, or Monolith class vessels. Given the mission profile of their long-range forays, that makes sense.
Not sure if this was mentioned yet, but Lord Garth of Irian has an interesting, and unknown, JumpShip in The Price of Glory that spins two attached DropShips on cables for artificial gravity. This would be an excellent feature to have for a long-range explorer.
In my head canon, Lord Garth's ship is an Uma class vessel.
By the way, as far as I'm aware Uma means "horse".
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You got source for the Uma your citing it from?
Explorer Corps, p. 24 ("Personnel and Equipment")
TT
-
Explorer Corps, p. 24 ("Personnel and Equipment")
I think Wrangler may have been refering to a wanting a source for the info suggesting the Uma pre-dates the Leviathan. Likewise you then discuss 'a better version of the Invader', which reads like you mean the Uma.
None of that is mentioned on p24, which is the only mention of the Uma to my knowledge.
Chris
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I think Wrangler may have been refering to a wanting a source for the info suggesting the Uma pre-dates the Leviathan. Likewise you then discuss 'a better version of the Invader', which reads like you mean the Uma.
None of that is mentioned on p24, which is the only mention of the Uma to my knowledge.
Chris
I was looking for any, but predating the Uma predating the Leviathan is definitely, something i'd like citation/page number/book. I help editing on the Sarna. One most important thing we do there is cite everything were posting there to prove it's not made up or as accurate as possible.
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We have nothing on the Uma beyond its name and that one such vessel was operated by the Explorer Corps courtesy of House Kurita ca. 3055, as mentioned in that single source quoted. Even my above musings are merely conjecture.
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Not sure this counts but i just realized TRO 3025, the original, notes that "There are currently no less than six different versions of the Archer in wide use by each Successor House and the mercenary Wolf's Dragoons..." and proceeds to describe the Archer-2K, -2S and -2W, which we've gotten record sheets at some point. Counting the baseline -2R, that's four, so this implies there's two more Succession Wars-era Archers unaccounted for.
Unfortunately figuring out who might be modifying Archers is a bit trickier. TRO 3039 notes that "Six factories continue to produce the Archer, with a number of these also building house specific variations" and lists three factories (Earthwerks Inc., VMI, GKT).
EDIT Interesting, TRO3025 also notes that the Panther 8Z was last of the Star League Panthers, implying there should be others.
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there are no secret archer variants floating around so they've never been given form or a name much less stats. good catch!
-
Cool... that could be an interesting margin to color in... :thumbsup:
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The line caught my attention specifically because it talks about major/widely used variants.
That nearly all 'Mechs have countless minor variants is no surprise, indeed many writeups in TRO3025 hint at unseen variants. But to mention specific number and never elaborate upon that? Weird. But i suppose it is plausible later writers either missed the line, or perhaps more likely having 4 Archer types was enough FASA (or later) never bothered to create more.
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Cool... that could be an interesting margin to color in... :thumbsup:
I could easily see one with massive amounts of SRM’s and another with large energy weapons or some kind of autocannon(s).
Ruger
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I could easily see one with massive amounts of SRM’s and another with large energy weapons or some kind of autocannon(s).
Ruger
Amusingly, me toying with variants exactly like these (did quad SRM-6s, twin LLs, and twin ACs) actually led me to discover this line. After i had thought about these for a moment, i decide to check TRO 3025 Archer entry if it would have inspiration for something else.
Given Davion autocannon love, i'd imagine there exists an AC-armed Archer variant...
-
Leave it to the Davions to have an archer that’s just an AC/20
-
There's the -1A, still hobbling about, primitive and all. That's five, could the extra sixth be the extremely plus-ultra, platinum- copper edition, X-Rare, SLDF -2Rb?
And on the Panther front, the -8Z is the last variant with both more armor and a Large Laser, equipped model.
Now saying that, any previous models would have been upgraded, like 8-tracks to cassettes. Laser Discs to Compact ones.
But there's always exceptions, but we don't have the Prototypes printed on Recordsheets... ( something like twice the heat but same critical space as normal ). That's more a fluff thing...
So a possible Panther-8Y would be a proto-LL, and slathered in Industrial Armor ( 67% standard ) plating. And based on these : https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Category:Primitive_Technology (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Category:Primitive_Technology) , one could make even earlier models.
Just gotta fluff it right!
TT
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Not just Autocannons... ARTILLERY CANNONS! :))
-
I just fished Reading TRO:3150. The NL-45 class smallcraft notes latest in a series of Gunboats of the NL-series. The fluff suggests there early versions in service of the Star League. No actual names just series name.
-
NL-42 " Battle Taxi ", Wolf Dragoons... Clan version... Lupus-class.
NL-43 aka KR-61 variant, " Battle Taxi ".
Which also means, if SLDF had any...
Dragonstar - Kurita
Mark I Landing Craft
Mark II Landing Craft " Close Attack "
Mark III Landing Craft " Assault Craft "
Mark VII Landing Craft
Not to mention the possible of a S-7A " Scarab " variant.
TT
( Yeah, I have a collection on hand... >:D )
-
I forgot the Battle Taxi was a NL, but i think its a stretch the Mark class smallcraft are related to them. Those were named as Ares Class before they were just referred to Mark.
-
What does NL even stand for? Naval Landing Craft?
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What does NL even stand for? Naval Landing Craft?
I think it must be, but i think Landing craft must be done as one word or they drop "craft" in the name. Both the Revised and original TRO: 3057 almost has same wording, doesn't spell out what the NL means.
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I think it must be, but i think Landing craft must be done as one word or they drop "craft" in the name. Both the Revised and original TRO: 3057 almost has same wording, doesn't spell out what the NL means.
Naval Lander, perhaps then?
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My guess would be "Naval - Light". They're all "Light" craft from the Navy's point of view... ^-^
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I just finshed reading TRO3150. I am not sure if it was mentioned, the fluff for Vampire III class dropship mentioned existence of a larger Special ops Vampire II dropship used by FedSuns which suggested to larger than the original 500 ton ship and Vampire II. Nether has record sheets, on hold till RS3150 ever comes out.
-
The Vampire II is in XTRO Phantoms.
-
Oof, i'm dorkazoid. I haven't re-read the XTROs in ages.
-
Okay; Already had the Daemon and the Specter.
Added MkIV-VI landing craft, NL-series and Mystery Archers.
Great work folks!
-
I also have the Pride, but I am unaware of the Thunderbird Conventional Fighter. That is ISP3?
-
Weren't some of ISP3 mentioned units errata'd away?
-
Does the Arrow IV-packing variant of the Woodsman count? The one that the Naga was created to replace?
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Seen, but no stats? Mech (Bluewater) Landing Craft.
(https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=62767.0;attach=53213)
Check this one off the list. (TRO: Irregulars) ;)
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Looks like 320 ton Cargo minimum, see the Lance of Thugs.
TT
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I love how dainty the Flashmen look in that picture. Actually, what is the plural of Flashman? Is it Flashmen or Flashmans?
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Flashmob.
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Flashmob.
I'm going with that moving forward
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Check this one off the list. (TRO: Irregulars) ;)
So, what's its name? ... or was that a wink for silliness? Very curious about that unit.
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So, what's its name? ... or was that a wink for silliness? Very curious about that unit.
Large and Small Mech Landing Craft---From Liberation of Terra II.?
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There's no name or stats for them.
Some suggest Higgins, but that sounds more like dropshuttles.
TT
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So, what's its name? ... or was that a wink for silliness? Very curious about that unit.
BattleMech Landing Craft, 2000 tons. Naval (Large, Template B)
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TRO:Irregulars has it called the Battlemech Landing Craft. Has light armament and defensive abilities, carries 4 mechs
And quite a bit of armor.
So, what's its name? ... or was that a wink for silliness? Very curious about that unit.
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I remember it had a earlier name that was on par with World War II Landing Craft. I think it was being called a Higgins boat. I am little disappointed they didn't want to give it actual name than generic name.
-
some units seem to be given a generic name at times to indicate they are representative of a wide swath of models made by a large number of manufacturers that are, for game purposes, identical. the theoretical higgins boat would have been one of at least a dozen common models. that way the unit lists don't get clogged with tons of variants that are essential clones of each other.
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BattleMech Landing Craft, 2000 tons. Naval (Large, Template B)
Thank you!
perhaps a .pdf is in my future ...
-
The record sheets look extra big
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I was hoping they were going to be able sneak in another ship, the Navy ship they used to Drop off Atlas in the Scorpion's Jar novel, which sounded like LSD with mech drop thing in it or the dreading freighter that could drop a Company of mechs from improvised mech cubicals whey used to drop soil as it goes.
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Does the Arrow IV-packing variant of the Woodsman count? The one that the Naga was created to replace?
I thought we had stats for that one? 5-shots of ammo?
PS: TRO Irregulars came through and all those entries have been crossed-off.
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The MUL lists an Arrow IV Woodsman as a design with no stats.
-
The Guardian has made it from apocryphal (BattleTechnology mag 13) to canon (TRO Irregulars p. 18, "Guard" entry)
New entries:
Oscar atmospheric fighter, mentioned in the Kraken Unleashed entry of Mercenaries Supplemental Update, p.80
Rimrunner submarine, TRO:VA p. 172
Atlas model RS House Davion, p. 125 (FASA 1623)
Edit: disregard!
The following entries can be stricken:
GS-54 Guard Quad 15-ton SecurityMech (TRO Irregulars p. 18, plus RS appendix)
Small Mech Landing Craft (TRO Irregulars p. 12 plus RS)
Prime Mover (TRO Irregulars p. 6 plus RS)
Wheeled Scout (TRO Irregulars p. 6 plus RS)
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New entries:
Atlas model RS House Davion, p. 125 (FASA 1623)
The Atlas RS has a record sheet.
Can be stricken:
-St. Florian (in Irregulars)
-Unnamed Raven Alliance Omni (Carrion Crow, in RG12)
-The Shadow Hawk Spy (recanonized in RG12 as the SHD-5S)
-Royal Valkyrie (clearly errata)
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The Atlas RS has a record sheet.
True, but neither fluff nor a MUL entry...
Edit: disregard
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True, but neither fluff
That's at least 1200 mechs
nor a MUL entry...
Not this one? http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/147/atlas-as7-rs
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Not this one? http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/147/atlas-as7-rs
You're correct, of course. My apologies.
Post edited.
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Re-Reading Scorpion Jar MWDA Novel. From Chapter 5.
Jonah Levin is dropped from bottom of the Kervil Marine Law Enforcement’s Amphibious Assault Ship, Waverley. The Ship has two sisterships, ships Ellis and Cuthbert. Which launched Landing Craft. The Landing Craft aren't same as BattleMech Landing Craft from TRO:Ir, where from book..
..specialized craft, their hulls painted pale blue to blend in with the ocean mists of Kervil, each of them carrying many smaller boats. The largest of the ships could ballast down, flooding the vessels’ well decks so that small cargo craft loaded with heavy tracked and wheeled units could float out. The smaller landing ships carried boats hung from davits, each boat large enough to hold a squad of regular or armored infantry.
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El Guapo's Banshee. Has AS stats, and hoping it gets released at some point.
For some odd reason I want to recreate it on a Executioner chassis, since I'm nmagnetizing the new plastic one and want to have some custom loadouts for it.
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There can't be much left that hasn't been wrote up yet.
-
There can't be much left that hasn't been wrote up yet.
You’d be surprised how obsessed a fan base can be about finding every little detail ;)
-
Like, I would like to know :
The stats of the Liberty Spaceplane from Here! (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Jihad_Hot_Spots:_Terra)
Or even This! (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Uma)
TT
-
Not sure if this has been mentioned in the thread already but the old ComStar sourcebook mentions Pit Viper mech. it was one of two first mechs models designed by Word of Bake engineers and produced at Gibson Federated BattleMechs factory (the other being Grand Crusader). That's apparently the only time the Pit Viper has been mentioned anywhere and the name is all the book really tells about it.
-
Apparently some of the names for mechs went through a few revisions while the book was being written, and the Pit Viper might be a case of that.
(The Raijin/Galahad and Nexus/Star Python are definite examples.)
That said, the text suggests it was something separate from the others appearing, so it probably isn't.
-
Curious oversight or more plausible FASA-nomics at large?
I present a case for you:
Grissom Miller, of Miller's Marauders : His unit was, at the time, formed sometime in Lyran space around 30??. ( 3024 works for the FedRats until late 3038 where they lose half of their all Marauder-3R unit. Though, there are reports he did have a few of the fabled Marauder II-4A's before he retired in his unit, officially there's no telling if this was true. )
Susan Barber, of Barber's Marauder IIs fame : She takes command of the remnants of the famed Marauders, see that the Wolf's Dragoons, who they have helped by providing much needed transports for their civilian dependants, that they have ( IMO ) older modeled Marauder II -4A's for sell. ( As WD has just started productions of -5A's and the then rarer -5B, the -5C was also being produced, but UAC/5's was a new close secret of the Fed Suns. )
Now I'm not sore about what happened to them, ( Koniz '64 - A Cluster of Combat Dropped Toads? (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Rho_Galaxy_(Clan_Jade_Falcon)) Really? ) I'm over that part (https://media.tenor.com/images/78c1939de9bed050a771ef75ff8c2ead/tenor.gif). But what I would like is some closure:
It states in the FM:Mercanaries ( pg. 36 ), 80% are either advanced IS or salvaged clantech. That's 30 out of 38 official.
" Thirty-eight jump-capably assault-class war-machines... ", it then lists how many ER PPCs, LB-10 autocannons and specifically " twelve Large Pulse Lasers ". No MAD II variant carries LPLs... Which now means that those 8 other " assault-class war-machines " are really the upgraded Marauder.
BUT!!!
I have not seen any official Mix-tech Marauders and Marauder IIs.
Have you?
Now going by the old -4A, dropping in 2 Clan ER PPCs, and leaving the rest as is, you get 2 extra SHS to use. But then you have to figure out where to put the LB-10.... it does state more than 30 are in use.
So that means they get the elusive -5A, which after upgrading to clan still gives the two extra leftover tons? IS Medium Pulse in the arms, they never say...
Which further irritates... which Marauder? Is it the MAD-5D, the MAD-5M or the MAD-5S to fill in the remaining eight? And do they also get the clan upgrade treatment as well? Or is it a mixture of all three, but more -3D due to being a FedSun unit at this time?
Ugh! :bang:
TT
-
SubUrbanMech---Battletechnology 18
Now fully canonized in Shrapnel #4, with an upgraded variant.
-
Now fully canonized in Shrapnel #4, with an upgraded variant.
It is? Great!
-
*note that the upgraded version was never produced but is still pretty fun
-
Another one from Shrapnel Issue 4 is the RFL-4DA1 Rifleman, its a Field Refit, 2 ppcs, extra armor & heatsinks. Featured in the story "Bye Bye Brigade".
No Record Sheets or specs beyond the fluff of the story as of this writing
-
Still say a K2 Cat is better...
TT
-
Irrelevant to the fact that the DA1 exists. The AFFS had lots of RFL-3Ns to convert. CPLT less so
-
Still say a K2 Cat is better...
TT
I'm with you on this one. Love me a K2
-
Paired K2, an old A1 with a single C4 leading the way, was my ' go-to ' Barrage Lance. Pairing these with twin Lancelot-03's, a Crab-20 and a Dragon-1N in command.
Of course, I had plenty of tanks hanging 'round!
TT
-
That really does sound nasty as hell, TT. You must be a joy to play against.
-
Why thank you rebs...
It took me like, an entire year to come up with a perfect unit placement. The vehicles do change fluidly, but the mech pretty much stays the same.
Currently, for the 3039 era : Running the every popular Mini-Peggy ( Harasser ), twin Falcon ( CityTech stats, I had to argue my case plenty of times to be allowed them ) and a single Condor ( Davion ).
I tended to keep my Tank units out in front with the Barrage Lance supporting them, but main goal was to find and harass the enemy from medium range. Dragon and CO. where more for AAA duty and overall support.
I played close to two Companies of Combine'd Arms, pun intended! :thumbsup:
TT
-
falcon.. the upsized JEdgar?
why would you have to fight to use it?
-
haters not letting sheets from Record Sheets Vol 5 in probably.
-
At the time there wasn't a Vol 5, and no official recordsheets, and like the Merlin, just an example of construction only.
It was a simple argument, it was published in an official rulebook, as an example and I could translate it to a recordsheet just like the original tanks and Mechs from both Battletech and Citytech ' rulebooks '. ( As is... )
Oh I had fun with them!
TT
-
At the time there wasn't a Vol 5, and no official recordsheets, and like the Merlin, just an example of construction only.
It was a simple argument, it was published in an official rulebook, as an example and I could translate it to a recordsheet just like the original tanks and Mechs from both Battletech and Citytech ' rulebooks '. ( As is... )
Oh I had fun with them!
TT
Ahh like the group I tried to play with who would not let me use the Unseen because the TRO no longer had them in it, and they didn't know what they were
But it was okay to build custom Clan Omni configs
-
At the time there wasn't a Vol 5, and no official recordsheets, and like the Merlin, just an example of construction only.
It was a simple argument, it was published in an official rulebook, as an example and I could translate it to a recordsheet just like the original tanks and Mechs from both Battletech and Citytech ' rulebooks '. ( As is... )
Oh I had fun with them!
TT
oh this was way back in the day
-
oh this was way back in the day
That's from what i can tell is alot of designs have gone missing or aren't in current published record sheets. Such stuff from Volume 5.
-
don't know if it's a lot. in the grand scheme of things more of a handful.
i suspect the majority of these vanished units came from MW1e and were given RS in volume 5
Air Car
Command Van
Ground Car
Heavy Transport B1
Jeep
Jet Sled
Skimmer
Speeder
there were a few others like the Large Laser Weapons Carrier A and the Falcon but we're talking a few marginal units clipped around the edges as opposed to a vast culling.
-
Falcon ( CityTech stats, I had to argue my case plenty of times to be allowed them )
TT
-
Re-Reading Scorpion Jar MWDA Novel. From Chapter 5.
Jonah Levin is dropped from bottom of the Kervil Marine Law Enforcement’s Amphibious Assault Ship, Waverley. The Ship has two sisterships, ships Ellis and Cuthbert. Which launched Landing Craft. The Landing Craft aren't same as BattleMech Landing Craft from TRO:Ir, where from book..
Nice one!
-
El Guapo's Banshee. Has AS stats, and hoping it gets released at some point.
For some odd reason I want to recreate it on a Executioner chassis, since I'm nmagnetizing the new plastic one and want to have some custom loadouts for it.
Where is that from? I have another thread for stuff like that; I call it "The Mech-It Lube"
-
Like, I would like to know :
The stats of the Liberty Spaceplane from Here! (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Jihad_Hot_Spots:_Terra)
Or even This! (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Uma)
TT
Can't believe I missed the Liberty!
Sometimes I see The Uma spelt "Una"; so I have edited the entry.
Thanks again!
-
Where is that from? I have another thread for stuff like that; I call it "The Mech-It Lube"
Combat Manual: Mercs and TRO3039.
-
Not sure if this has been mentioned in the thread already but the old ComStar sourcebook mentions Pit Viper mech. it was one of two first mechs models designed by Word of Bake engineers and produced at Gibson Federated BattleMechs factory (the other being Grand Crusader). That's apparently the only time the Pit Viper has been mentioned anywhere and the name is all the book really tells about it.
Huh...I was sure that the "Pit Viper" was renamed and became something else, but cannot find it now, so it goes in. Thanks!
-
Curious oversight or more plausible FASA-nomics at large?
I present a case for you:
Grissom Miller, of Miller's Marauders : His unit was, at the time, formed sometime in Lyran space around 30??. ( 3024 works for the FedRats until late 3038 where they lose half of their all Marauder-3R unit. Though, there are reports he did have a few of the fabled Marauder II-4A's before he retired in his unit, officially there's no telling if this was true. )
Susan Barber, of Barber's Marauder IIs fame : She takes command of the remnants of the famed Marauders, see that the Wolf's Dragoons, who they have helped by providing much needed transports for their civilian dependants, that they have ( IMO ) older modeled Marauder II -4A's for sell. ( As WD has just started productions of -5A's and the then rarer -5B, the -5C was also being produced, but UAC/5's was a new close secret of the Fed Suns. )
Now I'm not sore about what happened to them, ( Koniz '64 - A Cluster of Combat Dropped Toads? (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Rho_Galaxy_(Clan_Jade_Falcon)) Really? ) I'm over that part (https://media.tenor.com/images/78c1939de9bed050a771ef75ff8c2ead/tenor.gif). But what I would like is some closure:
It states in the FM:Mercanaries ( pg. 36 ), 80% are either advanced IS or salvaged clantech. That's 30 out of 38 official.
" Thirty-eight jump-capably assault-class war-machines... ", it then lists how many ER PPCs, LB-10 autocannons and specifically " twelve Large Pulse Lasers ". No MAD II variant carries LPLs... Which now means that those 8 other " assault-class war-machines " are really the upgraded Marauder.
BUT!!!
I have not seen any official Mix-tech Marauders and Marauder IIs.
Have you?
Now going by the old -4A, dropping in 2 Clan ER PPCs, and leaving the rest as is, you get 2 extra SHS to use. But then you have to figure out where to put the LB-10.... it does state more than 30 are in use.
So that means they get the elusive -5A, which after upgrading to clan still gives the two extra leftover tons? IS Medium Pulse in the arms, they never say...
Which further irritates... which Marauder? Is it the MAD-5D, the MAD-5M or the MAD-5S to fill in the remaining eight? And do they also get the clan upgrade treatment as well? Or is it a mixture of all three, but more -3D due to being a FedSun unit at this time?
Ugh! :bang:
TT
Okay; I'm convinced. But these will go in the Mech-It Lube, because they are more apt to be individually-modified examples and not a specific variant.
Combat Manual: Mercs and TRO3039.
Added!
-
Now fully canonized in Shrapnel #4, with an upgraded variant.
Got it! That was cool, huh? And they MAKE them too!
-
Another one from Shrapnel Issue 4 is the RFL-4DA1 Rifleman, its a Field Refit, 2 ppcs, extra armor & heatsinks. Featured in the story "Bye Bye Brigade".
No Record Sheets or specs beyond the fluff of the story as of this writing
Noted and logged! Thanks!
The Atlas RS has a record sheet.
Can be stricken:
-St. Florian (in Irregulars)
-Unnamed Raven Alliance Omni (Carrion Crow, in RG12)
-The Shadow Hawk Spy (recanonized in RG12 as the SHD-5S)
-Royal Valkyrie (clearly errata)
Open to it, but how do you mean that the Royal Val is errata? As in it is a mistake?
Thanks for the rest too!
The Guardian has made it from apocryphal (BattleTechnology mag 13) to canon (TRO Irregulars p. 18, "Guard" entry)
New entries:
Oscar atmospheric fighter, mentioned in the Kraken Unleashed entry of Mercenaries Supplemental Update, p.80
Rimrunner submarine, TRO:VA p. 172
Atlas model RS House Davion, p. 125 (FASA 1623)
Edit: disregard!
The following entries can be stricken:
GS-54 Guard Quad 15-ton SecurityMech (TRO Irregulars p. 18, plus RS appendix)
Small Mech Landing Craft (TRO Irregulars p. 12 plus RS)
Prime Mover (TRO Irregulars p. 6 plus RS)
Wheeled Scout (TRO Irregulars p. 6 plus RS)
Rock on!
Thanks!
The MUL lists an Arrow IV Woodsman as a design with no stats.
Well spotted!
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the A4 woodsman is mentioned in ED:GC
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Open to it, but how do you mean that the Royal Val is errata? As in it is a mistake?
Yep. Valkyrie only first entered production until after the the fall of the Star League and the Exodus, making a Royal one existing in the Homeworlds quite impossible.
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Yep. Valkyrie only first entered production until after the the fall of the Star League and the Exodus, making a Royal one existing in the Homeworlds quite impossible.
The Valkyrie was originally designed for the SLDF, even if it didn't make it into production. A pre-production prototype or two going with the SLDF isn't unthinkable, and it wouldn't have been the first mech where the standard and royal versions were designed simultaneously.
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the A4 woodsman is mentioned in ED:GC
I'm surprised it didn't make an actual appearance in TRO:GC.
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Open to it, but how do you mean that the Royal Val is errata? As in it is a mistake?
I read that as Royal Val as this :
(https://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/f/f2/Vali.jpg?timestamp=20130621025331)
A Royal Vali... :P
TT
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Yep. Valkyrie only first entered production until after the the fall of the Star League and the Exodus, making a Royal one existing in the Homeworlds quite impossible.
Aha! Yes. I totally get it.
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Yep. Valkyrie only first entered production until after the the fall of the Star League and the Exodus, making a Royal one existing in the Homeworlds quite impossible.
There is, however, nothing to say this design could not have been developed for the Royals and the version used by the FS is a downgrade, with the Royal version mentioned in GC built by the Clans. Or that there could have been a test run for use by the SLDF before it entered full production.
But the issue here is that the Royal Valkyrie WAS mentioned in canon. And there are mechanisms through which it could exist.
We readers cannot label it as errata. That would need to come from the writers and line devs or an errata for the book itself.
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The Clans managed to have plans for a Dragon and then created the Great Wyrm. Perhaps plans for a Royal Valkyrie were already drawn up?
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It currently doesn’t exist. All of the above keep the door open to possibly add it later. But it’s not hiding anywhere right now
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It currently doesn’t exist. All of the above keep the door open to possibly add it later. But it’s not hiding anywhere right now
oooh, totally missed that part of the conversation/lore. In that case it seems like some enterprising company would make one and then market it as "The SLDF Royal" variant, albeit some really tiny fine-print claiming that it is actually not a SLDF nor royal variant. Either way, it wouldn't belong in this thread.
redacted!
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It currently doesn’t exist. All of the above keep the door open to possibly add it later. But it’s not hiding anywhere right now
No - the point is that it DOES exist. It was mentioned in canon.
The questions therefore are 1) what are its stats and 2)was this a mistake?
It is fine to suggest it may be a mistake, but unless it is errataed out the position right now is that since it was mentioned, in canon, that it therefore exists in canon. The most obvious fix is that the FS Valkyrie is a downgrade or export of a unit originally designed for use by SLDF Royal units which was subsequently built by the Clans.
That is pure supposition, of course. But it isn't our position as readers to declare the unit a mistake.
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I should have been clearer - it was never built. Ask the writers if you want to know if it was a mistake
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I should have been clearer - it was never built. Ask the writers if you want to know if it was a mistake
ever feel like you just can't keep up, but try anyway. That's me this week.
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I should have been clearer - it was never built. Ask the writers if you want to know if it was a mistake
That it exists in text is a sign that it does exist.
And yes, I have asked the Writers. I'll agree it probably was a mistake, but that doesn't make it one that will be erased. The option to build upon it is also there. Either way - it isn't our job to declare something non-canon.
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There are a non-zero number of designs that never made it past the drawing board.
If it was a mistake, it’s errata and that would decisively strike it from canon
edit: appologies, i had my references confused.
During the Cahalle Trial, Nash’s command skills were responsible for the Coyote victory, but his talent in the cockpit of his Masauwu certainly helped. He destroyed or disabled three ’Mechs, including a new Shadow Hawk IIC and a Royal Valkyrie.
its absence from something like Historical: Op Klondike would be understandable due to the fact it would have been based on the unseen art. now there's a chance it might have been a mistake, though the existence of the royal hoplite shows at least one royal SL upgrade debuting after exodus.
this is also why we plead with people to submit missing units to the MUL. we have information and access to information that help us get to the bottom of these things much more quickly.
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I'm going to remove the strike-through provisionally, but I will try and keep an eye on this one.
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Would the Ice Ferret's progenitor, the Wolf Hunter count as an not-seen? Sounds like the configs it had were lackluster against what the current version is carrying from the fluff.
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Was the Wolf Hunter actually a separate mech from the Ice Ferret?
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Was the Wolf Hunter actually a separate mech from the Ice Ferret?
I thought they were the same, and the Wolves just renamed it as an FU after they captured it and their name stuck.
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TRO: 3050u states that the Ice Hellions lost 80% of their Wolf Hunters and their production facilities to the Wolves. That soured the other Clans on the OmniMech, but the Wolves created a slew of new configurations and it spread throughout their ranks. Therefore I believe it's safe to say that the Wolf Hunter and the Ice Ferret would qualify as the same 'Mech.
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Therefore I believe it's safe to say that the Wolf Hunter and the Ice Ferret would qualify as the same 'Mech.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Ice_Ferret_(Fenris) (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Ice_Ferret_(Fenris))
I would love to see the original configurations myself!
TT
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https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Ice_Ferret_(Fenris) (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Ice_Ferret_(Fenris))
I would love to see the original configurations myself!
TT
This kind of raises a question I've wondered about before, namely whether the configs we got for the Invasion-era OmniMechs are comprehensive, or whether there were/are "standard" configs used in the Homeworlds before that that we've never seen.
Some of the TRO3050 configs really only make sense if they were purpose-designed for the invasion of the IS. Like, how often would the Clans ever need to use A-Pods otherwise?
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the initial configurations appear the same year as the mech does, usually. however during the prototyping, especially during the first half of the golden century while they worked it all out, it was probably the Wild West of weapons duct tapped on.
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Anywhere you'd find Infantry or Battle Armor Points.
Like, literally, everywhere!
Trials of Annihilation can lead one to use these against both Civilians as well as Warriors.
Yeah, A-Pods do have a great use, on and off the field!
Fun factoid: Bears made them in 2850 for the sole use against the, then, superior Infantry Tactics ( ala Elementals ) of Hell's Horses... it spreads from there!
TT
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https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Ice_Ferret_(Fenris) (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Ice_Ferret_(Fenris))
I would love to see the original configurations myself!
TT
TRO: 3050u says "... it was supposed to be the Ice Hellion’s answer to Clan Wolf’s newly debuted Timber Wolf heavy OmniMech" so I would expect the Wolf Hunter configurations to be designed for combat and assaults (or anything else you would use a Timber Wolf for) instead of reconnaissance and support.
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Except its a 45 tonner vs a 75 tonner.
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Except its a 45 tonner vs a 75 tonner.
No one ever said that the Ice Hellion were the brightest crayons in the box...
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Except its a 45 tonner vs a 75 tonner.
Well, you know, gotta go fast.
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(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/SorrowfulPossibleArmyant-max-1mb.gif)
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Addition to the list? Planetlifter Support variant. Described in ''TRO:Prototypes'', p. 160, but there is no accompanying record sheet in RS: Prototypes. There may or may not be a (correct) MUL entry for it, I'm seeking clarification at the moment.
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Sarna suggests it's in Record Sheets: Prototypes, p. 80 - and there it is. The "Tactical Support Aircraft", I believe, is your "Support Aircraft".
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Sarna suggests it's in Record Sheets: Prototypes, p. 80 - and there it is. The "Tactical Support Aircraft", I believe, is your "Support Aircraft".
I'm working on that article. There are either two or three variants described. There is one record sheet. Waiting for information. (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/ask-the-writers/planetlifter-tactical-support-aircraft-vs-support-aircraft-vs-support/)
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I think i have some new old never seens. Their found in the MWDA novel, Fortress of Lies. (By the way one early Gems of the MWDA novel line)
- Black Hawk Standard (Personal/Custom) - This is personal variant of Republic's Prefecture VI leader, Duke Aaron Sandoval. The variant's only notable differents from the others models is that it was packing Improved JumpJets which none of the Black Hawk Standard or variants have. Essentially mix tech. The novel (being old) notes the Improved JumpJets were experimental. This was prior to the progression of era specific rules (3090 this is now Tournament legal etc) No Record Sheet was (as of this writing) made for it.
- Excalibur Class Cargo (Civilian Conversion) Dropship - Not unique, only when it was converted into flying Palace/HQ later. The ship had essentially 2-4 Mech bays and it's other bays were converted into cargo. It did have weapons, (properly not as many, but they were used in combat later in the novel) This is way before Strategic Ops/Interstellar Ops noted stuff. The Excalibur (Custom Variant), not great detail on the ship other than fluff from the novel. Portion of the Cargo bay was converted into stage/fancy palace so the Duke's guests so he could have negotiations/meetings. Additionally the ship was noted indirectly having Military grate HQ elsewhere onboard, so too coordinate troops, at least 4 Mech bays put into full service.
On side item, i'm not sure it counts from Fortress of Lies is Captain Clancy (Excalibur's captain) has a prototype/one-off? Cargo Hauler, which he used to drag Duke Sandoval's wrecked Black Hawk custom to his ship on New Canton. It appears its unique feature is the controls. It was never clarified what it was other than it was fast and able haul a Medium BattleMech in pinch fight. I believe one of the mystery PoliceMechs may have been stated from TRO: Irregulars in form of the Guard SecurityMech, but its not confirmed since the guns that PoliceMech fire was Rotary Autocannon based which may been wee bit of overkill firing rubber bullets which yet to be a optional ammo.
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We seem to have a Golden Age Coyote assault omni from the new story "The Trickster" by Parode, the Warlock
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did that appear in TRO: GC? ... (going to check now)
ctrl-f says NO
sounds familiar, but that could absolutely nothing.
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We seem to have a Golden Age Coyote assault omni from the new story "The Trickster" by Parode, the Warlock
Ooooh, are there details, ie do you recommend buying the book?
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Ooooh, are there details, ie do you recommend buying the book?
No details beyond its name and weight class.
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I was wondering where the reference to the Delavan-class Cruiser is from - I’ve checked both House Davion sourcebooks and can’t locate it - Sarna has a pair of them defending Novaya Zemlya in 2399 - but I can’t find a reference to them being involved there either.
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Sarna quotes House Davion - The Federated Suns (FASA #1623) p. 28 as the source, but the Delavans are definitely not there. I've also checked the HDSB print version, both House Liao books, and Era Digest Age of War - w/o success.
Seems those were extremely stealthy ships :D
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I was wondering where the reference to the Delavan-class Cruiser is from - I’ve checked both House Davion sourcebooks and can’t locate it - Sarna has a pair of them defending Novaya Zemlya in 2399 - but I can’t find a reference to them being involved there either.
The Delevan's are not Canon- they are Liam's Ghost's design from the old Naval Archive. The write up Liam did had 2 of them defending Novaya Zemlya. T
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Wait, something I wrote made it onto Sarna as a wiki fact?
I feel kinda honored.
Anyway, I did use a canon reference when I made the Delevan, but that was just to an unnamed type of "Strike Cruiser", and I'm struggling to find where that reference came from.
If that's enough to count as a Never-seen, I'll keep looking and see if I can find the original reference again.
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Found it!
Periphery 1st Edition Page 28:
"Intending to take advantage of this opportunity, the Davion strike force commander dispatched four squadrons of strike cruisers (three-fourths of the total Davion contingent) against the Tentativa system"
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Found it!
Periphery 1st Edition Page 28:
"Intending to take advantage of this opportunity, the Davion strike force commander dispatched four squadrons of strike cruisers (three-fourths of the total Davion contingent) against the Tentativa system"
Strike variants of the Cruiser-class? ;)
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I'd be down with it. The Cruiser doesn't get nearly enough love.
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Wasn't that the New Syrtis-class Carriers? The used have different designation. Fighter Cruiser but i remember hearing Strike cruiser somewhere.
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Wasn't that the New Syrtis-class Carriers? The used have different designation. Fighter Cruiser but i remember hearing Strike cruiser somewhere.
It wouldn't quite fit the original reference, since only five carriers saw action during Case Amber and the original reference was to "four squadrons of strike cruisers".
If we massage it a bit and change it to four strike cruiser squadrons instead of four squadrons of strike cruisers, then it might work in the same way that a carrier group isn't a group of carriers, but a group built around a carrier.
I can't find any reference to the New Syrtis being called a "strike cruiser" specifically, but that could also be a fuzzy designation rather than a definite classification. Or even a statement of intent if we go with strike cruiser squadron rather than squadron of strike cruisers, in other words a cruiser squadron dedicated to striking the hell out of things.
So it wouldn't take much stretching to go either way.
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I got one...
" Spider "
Touring the Stars : Gulf Breeze
Pg. 11
" CMC established a specialized shipyard, Spider, in Gulf Breeze Five’s orbit that produced simple, standardized habitat stations. "
' Wheelers ', aka Stanford-class Habitats, are 200K each... But this could lead up to the Multi-Modular Space Station design and quirk ability.
TT
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the spider i forgot (now added to the MUL). there is a daisy-chained wheeler - a custom rig simply known as the Gulf Breeze Station that has five of them welded together. So they can be chained together with one known example, though it is stated that they aren't modular in an intentional sense. this 930,000 ton example was a large-scale jimmy rig with custom-engineered station-keeping. they're not designed to be like legos. the TtS also notes they're a bitch to export.
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There is " Card " info on the Wheelers and possible Gulf Breeze itself.
As there are official stats.
TT
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Addition to the list? Planetlifter Support variant. Described in ''TRO:Prototypes'', p. 160, but there is no accompanying record sheet in RS: Prototypes.
The MUL entries were fixed. The Planetlifter Support (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/8175/planetlifter-support-standard) is a definite addition to the list.
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Planetlifter Support is the down-teched version mentioned in the variants in Prototypes
It turns out that the XTRO Corps and Prototypes tactical support aircraft were the same unit
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Suggested it because it qualifies as, "...have been mentioned once or twice in some source somewhere, but never fully stated-out..."
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We have support vehicles mentioned once in novels so obviously the criteria for addition is not stringent
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Wouldn't be the first time I misunderstood purpose or intent. :))
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oops never mind
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Thank you for all your hard work and contributions, folks!
I have added the planetlifter-support and warlock here and edited the Delavan.
I added the Custom Blackhawk and Excalibur, along with the Spider to the Mech-It Lube as they are custom one-offs if I read those replies correctly.
Thanks again!
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Thank you for all your hard work and contributions, folks!
I have added the planetlifter-support and warlock here and edited the Delavan.
The Delavan should be removed- it is not canon.
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Or at the very least changed to "unnamed strike cruiser".
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The Periphery 1st ed. p. 28 only mentions four squadrons of unnamed "strike cruisers".
These strike cruiser actually seem to be an unseen design fitting for the list, just the name Delavan isn't canon.
Short overview of known Davion warship classes in 2577, when Case Amber happened, we have:
Vigilant Corvette
Robinson Transport (Block I)
Davion Destroyer (Blocks I&II)
Aegis Heavy Cruiser
Congress Frigate
Congress Frigate D
New Syrtis Carrier
Defender Battle Cruiser
These are either too few in number to account for the loss of most of 4 squadrons - the TH distributed only 30 Aegis cruiser among all 5 member states, and 6 were still in service with the FS in 2765, there were only 6 Defender class battlecruisers ever built, of which 2 survived to 2765, and the other designs aren't cruisers at all.
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Leave it to the Davions to have an archer that’s just an AC/20
I mean, if I were to imagine an ARC-2D from the late succession wars, it would dump the missiles for nothing but energy weapons and heat sinks.
It's a pity there's no way to fit 20 small lasers into each side torso to keep it WYSIWYG. ;)
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Decoy emitters, Solaris uses them all the time. Even 10 is still a possible 30 pointer total sandblaster hit.
I mean, if I were to imagine an ARC-2D from the late succession wars, it would dump the missiles for nothing but energy weapons and heat sinks.
It's a pity there's no way to fit 20 small lasers into each side torso to keep it WYSIWYG. ;)
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More over, 12 would fit just fine in each side torso... off to the design forum and SSW... 8)
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The Periphery 1st ed. p. 28 only mentions four squadrons of unnamed "strike cruisers".
These strike cruiser actually seem to be an unseen design fitting for the list, just the name Delavan isn't canon.
Short overview of known Davion warship classes in 2577, when Case Amber happened, we have:
Vigilant Corvette
Robinson Transport (Block I)
Davion Destroyer (Blocks I&II)
Aegis Heavy Cruiser
Congress Frigate
Congress Frigate D
New Syrtis Carrier
Defender Battle Cruiser
These are either too few in number to account for the loss of most of 4 squadrons - the TH distributed only 30 Aegis cruiser among all 5 member states, and 6 were still in service with the FS in 2765, there were only 6 Defender class battlecruisers ever built, of which 2 survived to 2765, and the other designs aren't cruisers at all.
Gotcha. I misunderstood.
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New Syrtis Carrier could have had a variant. The design had in the past has been mentioned as a cruiser in some fashions, when they mentioned the ship first in the Robinson transport article. It would make sense for the davians to have maybe one big ship that's mass produced that isn't a destroyer.
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The problem with the "unnamed Strike Cruiser" is the the AFFS order of battle for Tentativa is in H:RW. So unless you throw out the material from H:RW (which would not be a bad idea- it has a lot of errors in it) and replace it with a new one featuring the Strike Cruiser I don't see how you can make the Periphery 1st Edition reference work.
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That's indeed a problem. The only way to reconcile both sources might be to take "4 squadrons of strike cruisers" as "4 strike cruiser squadrons", with each squadron consisting of one cruiser and escorting warships, like a RL Carrier Strike Group is a group centered on one aircraft carrier, not a group of several carriers. Luckily, the H:RW Tentativa OoB lists the 4 frontline taskforces with one Aegis each as the largest warship. Maybe the in-universe Comstar author of Periphery 1st ed. misunderstood the FS Navy terms.
Classical FASA two-step dancing...
Anyway, since newer sources top older ones, it seems like the mythical strike cruiser has been written out of existence before we could catch a glimpse. :)
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reading it as "4 strike cruiser squadrons" is probably the best solution given the current info. That said I would not say the in character author got it wrong. I am not sure how the entry in H:RW got past fact check-
1) The Aegis and Barons were not turned over to the Great Houses until 2582
2) The Leopard CV did not enter service until 2581
3) The AFFS had too many Davion 1s- as part of Directive 22 (issued in 2575) the FS leased all but 3 Davion 1s to the SLDF - there were 7 at Tentativa
4) The Vincent Mk39 was the final SL version of the Vincent after centuries of modifications (not to say the FS could not have had Vincents but they should have been maybe Mk 20 ).
All of this is per TR 3057R - for reference the Battle of Tentativa took place in 2577.
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Yeah, something will have to give. We can probably juggle some dates, like Direction 22 was issued in 2775, but then most of the surviving Davion Is were only transferred after Tentativa. I overlooked that the Aegis wasn't distributed to the member states before 2582, that leaves the FS Navy without any known cruisers except for six Defender BCs at the time of Tentativa, maybe a couple of second hand Cruiser cruisers :)
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The Argo class submersible carrier. Its described in the mercenary handbook. Ordered by Kraken Unleashed, a merc unit. It could house like a wing of aerospace fighters, at least a lance, and is bristling with guns, buuut theres no record sheet. I saw a picture of it somewhere but never a source for it.
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It's in Handbook:House Marik.
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Konito mech---Children of kerensky Novel
I think that should be Kontio.
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The Capellan Novel that came out, Blood Will Tell, new DropShip variant of the Danais which is intended to be a Industrial 'Mech Carrier, but it's basically was used transport BattleMech. As this writing, there never been variant of the ship as mech carrier. Despite Union being the regular military one.
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Wouldn't that be the Phobos from GDL? Not the second Phobos aka the Union, but the Trojan variant of the Danais..
TT
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Wouldn't that be the Phobos from GDL? Not the second Phobos aka the Union, but the Trojan variant of the Danais..
TT
You are likely right. However it was stated out either. The freighter was listed being as cargo only. No mech bays were ever listed for the Danai and not one meant to transport any kind mechs ready to march, just packed a way as cargo. Like Container ship or on flatbed trailer.. Additionally, there yet another variant developed as a dedicated passenger ship.
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Was just listening to the Audiobook for Heir to the Dragon (so I am not sure of the page), and during the fight with the Skye rangers they mention a Kuritian tracked APC "HK-17", which has a troop compartment. I would guess it just falls under the standard class of tracked APC, but figured I'd toss it up here ;)
"Amid the eye-searing pulses of the Kuritan fire, an HK17 armored personnel carrier appeared, the bedraggled rat of the Legion emblazoned on its dented and ragged side armor."
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With the excitement for Golden Century, I've been inspired to share my personal list of those units and equipment which have been mentioned once or twice in some source somewhere, but never fully stated-out or given art. I hope someday all of these will appear in print.
So here is my list, what is yours? Did I make any mistakes? What did I miss? Bring on the weird stuff!
General List
Air Car (probably two versions; Hover and VTOL) (MW1E)
Amarok---Wolf Design mentioned in Hammerhead Fluff in Rec Guide 5
Amphibious Assault Ship, Waverley---Has two sisterships Ellis and Cuthbert; can launch smaller craft, mentioned in Scorpion Jar
Aquatic Clan Exoskeleton; Elemental precursor
Archer---TRO 3025 notes *6* extant Archer variants in production at the time of printing, but only 4 are known in terms of stats or other fluff.
Artos Mech---Children of kerensky Novel
Athalwolf Mech---Children of kerensky Novel
Atlantis Arcology---on atreus, 10kph cruising (TacOps)
Atlas AS8-K ---Rec Guide 7 War Crow Writeup, Ballistic-Reinforced Armour
Avalonmax-class freighters---Touring the Stars: Rigil Kentarus.
Awesome AWS-11H Triple HPPC from HB: HM
Baby Sylvester Dropship
Barghest Gray---Major Gray of 20th Aucturan, during the JF Incursion has the Barghests under her command modified by swapping the ER LLs for Clan Gauss Rifles.
Bauer Enterprises Heavy LAM which lost out to the Phoenix Hawk LAM
Brookes Incorporated three-man digging/drilling machine (2940)
Bulker Sea-Going Dredge---Mentioned in Fortress of lies; capable of deploying mechs in amphibious assaults through the chutes for the spoil(Right term?) Dross?
Callisto battlearmour---Children of kerensky Novel
Cameroon (Ice Hellion --> forerunner of the Icestorm)
Carrack Carrier Variant---1st SW
Cherrypicker Agromech (later GDL book)
Chimera Prototype ASF
CI-117 APC---Cyclops Industries Product, HB:HS Cyclops Industries profile
Clan APC Sub
Clan Behemoth DS from TRO 3057---ER Lasers
Clinoa-Class Frigate (Wet Naval Escort for the Meabh)
Clipper-Class Cargo-carrying jumpship. Free Flight Limited Project/product
Coanda PSC---Skye Pleasure Craft Sport Racing WiGE (Techmanual)
Colt Conv Fighter (SRM)
Comitatus---JS (Freighter and Downgraded Cargo Variants)
Command Van (MW1E)
Crusader; SLDF Jumping version (the same as had the Hawk Missile Systems, but otherwise similar to the 3L)
Cyclops I---Wolf's Dragoon's space station; drydocks for jumpships and dropships, recharge batteries.
Cyclops Mastodon Hover Transport---"Armor and Infantry" Transport in development in 3067 with AP Weapons and "lighter-than-normal" Armour (Techmanual)
Daemon (SLDF Prototype)
Daemon---Norse Storm mech intended to replace the Spector in production.
Dagda Mobile Atolls
Delavan-class Cruiser built by the Federated Suns---Periphery 1st ed, Pg.28
Delta---Early prototype Protomech used in action by the Smoke Jaguares in limited numbers, Mentioned on pg 26, Twilight of the Clans Campaign Book.
Deuce-and-a-Half (Davion "Half-tracked" version of the Bulldog or a similar vehicle)
Dropship Crawler (Mobile structure example)
DroST I---Implied Dropshuttle-bay-capable 5000t variant of the DroST
Durandel Destroyer---FM:FS
Dust Rat---Wolf's Dragoon's 6-wheeled recon car from Wolf Pack
Erinyes (WOB Super Weapon with Heavy Mass driver, based on a newgrange)
Evironmentally-specialized pre-Elemental BA (unknown if there were others at this time)
Explorer Jumpship; HPG and Sub-Cap weapons variants---found mentioned in House Marik Section of TRO3075 and in the MUL
Falcon Hovertank (CityTech 1E)
Falcon's Roost Orbital Complex
FDC APCs---Shadows of War, chapter 20, modified APCs used to coordinate artillery fire.
Fire Moth Infantry carrier
Fireship---Historical Reunification War, Taurian campaign, likely used and referenced elsewhere. Common cargo ships as suicide ram-ships, equipped with conventional or nuclear bombs.
Florence AmbulanceMech
flying airbase (Mobile structure example)
Fox (Sea Fox/Diamond Shark)
Fusion-Powered Aquamech (Mentioned in Ghost Wars TRO)
GHR-1X Ghost Hunter---failed, boondogles-esc prototype of the Grasshopper, possibly with flawed-CLPS/NSS or other stealth system
GHR-4R Grasshopper---From the BC story "A soldier's priviledge" and recontructed here https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=55136.msg1269114 from data in the story
GM MuckRaker
Goliath C
Graf-Tengu Air Transport from Objectives: DC
Grand Crusader II Omnimech---Abandoned in favour of the Celestial series.
Gray Monday BA (unidentified BA used in the Gray Monday attacks)
Griffin C
Ground Car (MW1E)
GS-54 Guard Quad 15-ton SecurityMech
Gulf Breeze "Capital Station" 930,000T; 5x Wheelers, from Touring the Stars: Gulf Breeze, P.12
Haepheastus-class station
Heavy Transport B1 (MW1E)
Heavy Weapons Carriers (better, fusion-versions of the above HTP: Glengarry) LRM, SRM, AC Laser variants
Hector--- DS 1800, test bed for M2 Caspar Drone
Herdsman AgroMech mentioned in TRO: 3075.
Hermes and Hermes II---Version with vehicle flamers as an early holdover or a field modification, in order to come in line with fluff descriptions
Hermes II HER-2K 'Hermes III'---Mentioned advanced-tech predecessor of the HER-4K; 2x ERLL, Flamer, DHS
Hermes II---Illegal CT AC and Arm-Mounted AC Prototypes
Hessen Tank--CC, Mentioned in XTRO III, Korvin Precursor.
hood class cruiser (Wet-Navy Cruiser mentioned in gameplay examples in Combat Equipment)
Hover Scout (RS V5: Vehicles)
Hover Weapons carriers (HWC-A from RS: Vehicles and MUL) LRM, SRM, RL, Rifle and AC Variants, 25T
Hughes-class mobile yard station
Hunchback IIC IS Refit---mentioned in TRO:3058R/U---IS Pilots normally refuse to pilot an Hunchback IIC unless or until one of the UAC/20s has been removed and replaced with armour and other equipment.
Hunchback HBK-2---Mentioned in Hunchback IIC Fluff as it's basis.
Hunter Wheeled Assault Tank; 20T, PPC, Vox 130 Fusion, 129.6kph---TCI Shadowhawk/Scorpion model kit
Hurricane Air/Hover car---Cyclops Industries product, HB:HS Cyclops Industries profile
Hussar MLs and Armour variant---TRO3050R. Drops the LL for 2xML and more armour. Possibly also an electronics system.
Ice Ships; ala the "Ryan Cartel"
Inferno---Davion Heavy Mech Mentioned in Rec Guide Warhammer Writeup, has one or more PPCs---included in Rec Guide 9
Jarvis Prototype mini-sub
Jeep (MW1E)
Jenny ASF trainer (Original House Stiener SB, under Nagelring entry)
Jet Sled (MW1E)
Jian-Class Dropship---Children of kerensky Novel
Jonah Mini-Sub (Space Version)
Jupiter Variant from Sword of Sedition, likely as stated here; https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=70258.0;topicseen (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=70258.0;topicseen) by @Templar87
Khirgiz; earlier version with SFE, possibly non-omni.
King-class 90-ton CargoMech
Konito mech---Children of kerensky Novel
Landing Craft---Smaller versions as mentioned in Scorpion Jar; versions for vehicles and much-smaller version for a Squad of regular or unarmoured infantry---probably a typo; if you can carry 4 BA; that's more like a platoon of unarmoured infantry.
Large and Small Mech Landing Craft---From Liberation of Terra II.
League DS (GDL Books)
Leander II Naval Support Vehicle---Hexareme TRO
Leopard, Union, Overlord and Excalibur Passenger/Cargo Conversions---Various novels, especially MWDA
Liberty Space Plane
Light wheeled weapons carriers (Some attribution in fiction, particularly Decision at Thunder Rift) 20-40 tons, PPC, Laser, Missile, AC, Rifle, Thumper, RL
Lightning---Rec Guide 7 War Crow Writeup
Longinus C---3150
LT-MOB-50 Rail Mobile Longtom
Lugger 80-ton battlefield salvage ’Mech
M1 Drone
M10 Drone
M11 Drone
M2 Drone
M6 Drone
M7 and M8 drone stations?
MkIV, V and VI Landing Craft---Implied and mentioned in Mk/Ares-Series Landing Craft Write-ups.
Magellan II---variant depicted in Technology of destruction; has a grav deck, likely a single docking collar and multiple shuttle bays
Manazuru Conventional Aircraft from Objectives: DC
Marauder II Ballistic Weapons Variant---TRO 3050, takes of advantage of useless CASE in wrong torso.
MaxTech ICEMech---depicted on cover
MicroTitan - Ultralight digging Mech
Minsk (Ghost Bear)
Mobile HPG
Mobile Mining Refinery MMR (Support Vehicle, Drone/Automated Control optional, from the new beginner's set included fiction: Golden Rule)
Monza Light Cruise Liner---Federated-Boeing Interstellar (Techmanual)
Mosquito Radar Plane '52-Model (Techmanual)
NAIS Light Scout/SF Suit---Showcased on huntress. stealthy, infantry weapons and equipment, possibly squad support weapon. Uses thunderstroke, SRM and manpack PPC.
NL-Series Gunboats---Mentioned in NL-42/45 write-ups; the NL-42 and then the -45 is noted as the latest in a series of NL-series gunboats designed and used by the Star League.
NETC Skyhook heavylift VTOL (Techmanual)
Nova Luthien---SMR-4, 3+ ERML?
Ogotai---First Diamond Shark ASF 2874
Okinawa---Balanced-armour first production version---TRO:3057
Omni-Corvis (DOH!)
One-Mech Transport Shuttles---Robinson-Class Transport (Warship) in TRO: 3075
Orion C---3150
Ostroc OstWar Arms Variant---Simply an Ostroc which visually matches the original art due to fitting of Earlier OstWar arms. May or may not have two arm-mounted SRM4s, vs 1 in the Torso.
Oscar atmospheric fighter, mentioned in the Kraken Unleashed entry of Mercenaries Supplemental Update, p.80
Pallas---Long lost assault mech ~90-95t, mentioned as part of a Frankenmech in Redemption and Malice
Peregrine Warship
Piledriver Dropship variant---Children of kerensky Novel
Pit Viper---old ComStar sourcebook mentions it was one of two first mech models designed by Word of Bake engineers and produced at Gibson Federated BattleMechs factory (the other being Grand Crusader).
Planet Lifter-Support Variant---MUL-listed entry without stats or AS card, from TRO: Prototypes P.160, variants
PPC-Armed Locust---attributed in first printing of TRO 3025; a Davion-Variant that falls down when it fires.
Prime Mover (MW1E)
Project Trojan HDHB --- Stealth Dropship
Qasar---First Novacat ASF 2905
RanchHand AgroMech in “Callie’s Call”
redhawk gunship (mentioned in the Proliferation Cycle)
Reudel Conv Fighter (Hearts of Chaos)
Rhino early Clan Heavy Battle Armour (How did we miss this one!? Ah well; done now! :) )
Rifleman RFL-4DA1---Mentioned in Shrapnel #4; Field Refit, 2 ppcs, extra armor & heatsinks. Featured in the story "Bye Bye Brigade.
Rimrunner submarine, TRO:VA p. 172
RiotMech - (Appeared in MWDA Novel Fortress of Lies)
Rising Star---Low-production forerunner to the Legacy
Scout DS (GDL Books)
Shadow-Griffon---Betrayal of Ideals, elsewhere? A Semi-regular frankenmech design
Skimmer (MW1E)
SLDF bullet-proof uniform
Slither---Another mech mentioned only in Redemption and Malice; Rim Worlds, so it seems.
Sovereign class cruiser (depicted in Tac Ops, Pg161, 245)
SpaceStream Smallcraft from Objectives: Lyran Alliance
Spector Christian---From Chaos Irregulars stories
Spectre Clan Survielance Plane---Look Down Radar Write-up
Speeder (MW1E)
St. Florian 90-ton
Star League Floating Islands---GM Skycity-3000, Lyran "Skycity" (TacOps)
StarCorps Muskrat-379---SupVee Aircraft, Amphibious, prop-driven, STOL, Water-tanker firefighting aircraft with look-down radar, hi-res cameras and Thermal. B-Model is optimized for passengers and camera equipment as a recreational parachuting aircraft (Techmanual)
StarCorps Smoke Ultralight Trike SupVee Aircraft (Techmanual)
Stealth Karnov
Storm Giant (Scylla Predecessor) (YES! Very excited to have this now!)
Submersible Aircraft carriers---Built for the SLDF by Sungdong-STX Shipbuilding, TRO: 3085 Supp. P18
super-freighter (Mobile structure example)
suvurov ICE tank
T-420 Hovercraft APC (Earthworks)---2 squads (12 pers), turreted laser, "Dreyfus" Support Machinegun
Tempest C---3150
Terraforming ships---may have a mechanical part in the process, may just be a designated transport.
Thug AC, At least 1 SRM-4, at least 1 PPC swapped for an autocannon. Bush Wars art. Makes sense as a SW-mod.
Thunderbolt TDR-12R---Rec Guide 6, ROTS Steath Mech, built on Tinkonov)
Tigershark fighter
Tigershrike ICE Hover
Trailblazer Exploration ship---Star League sourcebook, p. 60, Crew: 479, HPG equipped, Had three jump drives, all linked to a central control computer through a single circuit junction. Launched 2655 to map and survey unexplored star systems. Major Boondoggle bait right there.
Traveler-class aerodyne mail shuttle, in use in the FWL in 2466, predating the HPG. It's stated to have a crew capacity of 2-3, and can be flown by a single pilot.
Troglodyte; the true name of the SLDF tunnel/subterranean tank mentioned above---Seems it's in the Manta/Moray entry P18, TRO: 3085 Supplemental
UL-14 Bulldozer---TRO:VA(R) p. 34
Un-named Raven Alliance Omnimech---Mentioned in War Crow Fluff ---This turns out to be the Carrion Crow
Una/Uma Jumpship---Explorer Corps
Valiant Regal sportster; Handbook: House Davion pg 175
Valkyrie (Royal version)---Mentioned in the Writeup for the Masauwu's notable pilot
Venturer WS Word of blake prototype destroyed over loyalty by sabotage
Vision Quest (Nova Cat)
Voss Conv Fighter (Hearts of Chaos)
Wakusei no Mochiagerumono Conventional Aircraft from Objectives: DC
Warlock---Golden Age Coyote Assault-class omni. no details beyond name and weightclass
Wheel Space Station of the Wheel System
Wheeled Scout (RS V5: Vehicles)
White Raven---Rec Guide 7 War Crow Writeup, Ferro-Lite Armour, mentioned in Divided We Fall as being a revamped design; faster than 4/6, 75t, removed pulse lasers
Woodsman (Dual Arrow-IV)---Naga precursor
Yangtze Air Transport From Tengo Aerospace in Objectives: CC
'Zilla---Defiance-built demolition mech competitor, apparantly more mobile and thus likely uses a fusion engine.
Zoomer Elemental transport sled from Wolf Pack
Stuff supposed to be in Irregular Tech, from the Table of Contents
Buster HaulerMech MOD
Centurion MilitiaMech
Demeter AgroMech MOD
Exo HaulerMech
Firebee MilitiaMech
Ground Pound MiningMech MOD
Guard SecurityMech
Gulon SecurityMech
Haruspex Satellite
Harvester AgroMech MOD
Heavy Lifter CargoMech MOD
Higgins Landing Craft
Inquisitor SecurityMech
Lucius Zhao Escort Carrier
Maruhanabachi Carrier Airship
Muckraker MiningMech MOD
Opossum SalvageMech MOD
Pacifier SecurityMech
Pompier PoliceMech
Prime Mover & Wheeled Scout
St. Florian FireMech MOD
StrongArm ConstructionMech MOD
Sturmvogel Maritime Patrol WiGE
Ye Olde Apocryphal designs from the Magazines that could be/need to be canonized/re-canonized
Achilles ACH-09S---Battletechnology 18
Alliance ALI-1A---Battletechnology 7
Ambassador MBSDR-1---StarDrive V1N1
Apollo APL-1J---StarDrive V1N1
Ariane ARN-E1---StarDate V3N3
Athena FDC Carrier---Battletechnology 8
Avalon Arms Support System---Battletechnology The Early Years
Avatar AVT-7A---Battletechnology 21
Badger-Class medium tank (obsolete basis for SP Sniper, using the same SLDI TRK/5(B) Chassis)---Battletechnology 0204
Bandicoot KGR-BCT---Battletechnology 19
Behemoth BMH-1T "belfry"---Battletechnology 11
Boomer BMR-100---Battletechnology 19
Brawler Mech---Battletechnology 13
BRN-1 Brian---Battletechnology 13
Bushido BSD-7K---Battletechnology 18
Cavalier Class Dropship---StarDate V3N3
Centurion Maximus CNT-9---Battletechnology 15
Cerberus CBR-6S ASF---Battletechnology 10
CGR-1A2 Charger-KH---Battletechnology 13
Chimera Ch-1M "perfected quad mech"---Battletechnology The Early Years
Clytemnestra CTP-005---Battletechnology 20
Cobra FrankenMech---Battletechnology The Lost Issues
Common Chassis vehicles 100, 75 ton tracked and 50 ton Hover---Battletechnology 19
Cyclone F-95---StarDate V3N3
Dervish DV-7S---Battletechnology 11
Dwarf Wombat KGY-WBT---Battletechnology 19
Fisher FSH-9R Recon/Spec-Ops carrier mech---Battletechnology The Early Years
Foxfire FXR-4R---StarDrive V1N1
Frankenstein`s Monster FrankenMech---Battletechnology 20
Gadfly GDF-L4---StarDate V3N3
Goshawk VTOL Gunship---Battletechnology 9
Gremlin Armoured car---StarDate V3N4
Gryphon Scout Hover Tank---Battletechnology 19
Guardian---Battletechnology 13
Guppy Scout Submarine GU-2P---Battletechnology 12
Harrier Hovertank---Battletechnology 0202
Hedgehog---Also now attributed as the first Tripod in other sources. DO IT!
Huntress artillery mech (it`s got tracks, so I think TPTB would be into it for the MWDA connection there)---Battletechnology 14
Interloper Urban Scout URS-12A---Battletechnology 16
Iroquois Transport VTOL---Battletechnology 9
Javelin/Enforcer/Wolverine FrankenMech---Battletechnology The Early Years
Joey KGR-000---Battletechnology 19
Junior JNR-7P---StarDrive V1N1
Kangaroo KGR-00---Battletechnology 19
Ki-Rin VTOL Gunship---Battletechnology 9
Kookaburra KBA-01---Battletechnology 19
Leviathan LVN-1X "Belfry" A barely mobile wheeled tank---Battletechnology 11
Life-Saver Medivac VTOL---Battletechnology 9
Lumberer FrankenMech---Battletechnology The Lost Issues
Lynx LYN-5X (Basically looks like a shadowhawk variant)----Battletechnology 9
Malleus MLS-1A---Battletechnology 11
Mantis LAM---Battletechnology 15
Mauler Cititank---Battletechnology 16
Minnow Sub MNO-5W---Battletechnology 12
Mite MTE-12C---StarDate V3N6
Monster "The Monster" Frankenmech---Battletechnology 13
Munin MN-1B LAM---Battletechnology 10
New Gladiator FrankenMech---Battletechnology The Lost Issues
Omega 137-A---Battletechnology 14
Original Titan(s)---Battletechnology 17, 11
Quicksilver Hoverscout---StarDate V3N4
Rampage RMP-1C---Battletechnology 16
Rattlesnake JR7-31P (Jenner laserboat variant)---Battletechnology 21
Rhino RHN-10 Melee Quad mech---Battletechnology 12
Rifleman-K (Drops the AC/5s for two more Large Lasers, an SRM4 and 7 heatsinks----Battletechnology 9
Roo Scout RO-2A---Battletechnology 14
Royalty-Class Royal Yacht (Armed Jumpship Amaris Star/Lorelei's Hope)---Battletechnology 20
Sandman LAMs---Battletechnology The Early Years
Screaming Hawk---Battletechnology 7
Shadow Hawk Spy (Spec Ops Shadowhawk)---Battletechnology 21 ---Canonized as the SHD-5S
Siren SL-23---StarDate V3N3
Sky Ranger High Schout Drone Carrier---Battletechnology 19
Skyhook 30ton Transport VTOL---Battletechnology 9
Slowpoke SLP-2U---StarDrive V1N1
Sniper ammo carrier---Battletechnology 0204
SP Sniper---Battletechnology 0204
Stiletto STL-7D---StarDrive V1N1
Striga Conventional Fighter STC-13---Battletechnology 12
Striped Bandicoot KGY-BCS---Battletechnology 19
SubUrbanMech---Battletechnology 18
Sylph SYH-A5 Hovertank---Battletechnology The Early Years
Templar TMPL-1R---Battletechnology 15
Traverse TR-11A---StarDate V3N3
Trooper FrankenMech---Battletechnology The Lost Issues
UrbanMech, Modified---Battletechnology 18
Ventilator VNT-1A---Battletechnology 15
Viking Hydrofoil---Battletechnology 0204
Wallaby KGR-WA---Battletechnology 19
Weasel WS3-L and Wild Weasel WS3-L2---Battletechnology 16
Whirlwind Hover Tank---Battletechnology 0202
Wildcat Aerotanker from Battletechnology 10
Wisp WS-2P---Battletechnology The Early Years
Wolfman FrankenMech---Battletechnology 0102
Wombat KGR-W0---Battletechnology 19
Wyvern VTOL Gunship---Battletechnology 9
Zaibatsu-Class Orbital manufacturing Facility---Battletechnology The Early Years
Thats quite a list...
I'd love to see some of these added to the universe
Falcon's Roost Orbital Complex
Whats the source for this?
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Not sure, beachhead not been active since May. :-\
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Jihad Objectives: The Clans, pp. 11, 14
Falcon’s Roost Orbital Assembly Plant opened in 3072, so there might be other additional Jihad and later sources that mention it.
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Would Japanese BattleTech count? Nope. Never mind.
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The Jeep does have a RS, but it's out of date... also there's no RS for the Nolan MagLev Train....
TT
UPDATE: PPC Locust... 1st ed. 3025 TRO, fourth para, middle column...
We now have LPPCs... but this is a Davion variant using a standard PPC.
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The Jeep does have a RS, but it's out of date... also there's no RS for the Nolan MagLev Train....
TT
UPDATE: PPC Locust... 1st ed. 3025 TRO, fourth para, middle column...
We now have LPPCs... but this is a Davion variant using a standard PPC.
u mean the sucide sled :o
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Shrapnel 6. Star Python mech in the Scorpion empire story
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Shrapnel 6. Star Python mech in the Scorpion empire story
(https://c.tenor.com/O1mkFVyyktcAAAAM/the-simpsons-millhouse.gif)
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Shrapnel 6. Star Python mech in the Scorpion empire story
Wasn't the Star Python originally a misnamed (or possibly scrapped early name) Nexus?
(in the meta sense I mean. Not in universe)
I wonder if in universe the mech is based on the Nexus/Jackrabbit, for the sake of that sweet sweet continuity nod.
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Wasn't the Star Python originally a misnamed (or possibly scrapped early name) Nexus?
(in the meta sense I mean. Not in universe)
Right. The ComStar SB (FASA 1655) showes three new 'mechs: the Nexus (ex Jackrabbit), the Raijin and the Grand Crusader, in TRO style.
A color plate shows the three 'mechs as well, but calls the Nexus Star Python and the Raijin Galahad (the name of the Grand Crusader is unchanged).
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Rec Guide 19 has Ghost Bear mech that's apparently either a heavy or assault called the Mastodon.
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Rec Guide 19 has Ghost Bear mech that's apparently either a heavy or assault called the Mastodon.
Sounds like a quad.
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A quad you say?
(https://www.morphinlegacy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Mastodon-Dinozord.jpg)
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Elephant-like quad would be awesome :D
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Sounds like a quad.
I suppose it could be. The only hint we're given is that it's allegedly quite durable, as the very-tough-for-its-size Rime Otter is listed as being tough enough to team up with one.
But at least it confirms that Ghost Bears are metalheads.
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Too bad it's not Goliath Scorpion mech, it would have the ram plate mounted on it. Then it could be really a Mastodon.
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Too bad it's not Goliath Scorpion mech, it would have the ram plate mounted on it. Then it could be really a Mastodon.
Maybe there's more to come on the rumoured omni Scorpion and Goliath.
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A quad you say?
[Picture snipped for space]
I prefer this one:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/1027/1344511464_07b3ae8c82_z.jpg)
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I prefer this one:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/1027/1344511464_07b3ae8c82_z.jpg)
I was thinking Elefander but I couldn't find a good picture.
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I prefer this one:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/1027/1344511464_07b3ae8c82_z.jpg)
Red Mammoth?
I see you are a man of taste and refinement
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Red Mammoth?
I see you are a man of taste and refinement
I bought Spiderman and Zoids when it came out :)
Are you aware of the Zoidstar website?
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I bought Spiderman and Zoids when it came out :)
Are you aware of the Zoidstar website?
I am. Great site and pretty useful given that those comics will likely never be reprinted.
...boy is this some topic drift
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I am. Great site and pretty useful given that those comics will likely never be reprinted.
...boy is this some topic drift
We are discussing giant fighting robots that have literally never been seen in the Inner Sphere...
To get a bit closer to the topic, am I being particularly petty to ask if the OP list of drones can be slightly re-organised?
M1 Drone
M10 Drone
M11 Drone
M2 Drone
M6 Drone
M7 and M8 drone stations?
I really feel that the M10 and M11 are in the wrong place...
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I hadn't thought of the M series failed drones being part of this Never-Seen thread. We didn't get stats for them, like that Caspar controlled Texas Class Battleship face planting itself into planetary body.
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There's also the Hughes, Gatekeeper and the Wooden space stations missing as well. The Wooden was a Regan station in the lore.
TT
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There's also the Hughes, Gatekeeper and the Wooden space stations missing as well. The Wooden was a Regan station in the lore.
TT
You need mention where you found it, Mighty Tanker.
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Did the Horned Owl (Peregrine) starting as a submersible ConstructionMech get mentioned yet?
RG11, Horned Owl opening paragrah.
That said, it is unclear if the original concept was ever truly built, could've been plans only.
EDIT Wolverine 6T appears on MUL, based on a line in Field Report 2765 Periphery. "Locally designed Wolverine variant" in Taurian space.
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Might as well mention the Zephyr-class luxury airship, found in the story Marsh Owl in 25 Years of Art & Fiction.
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Any heard from beachhead?
I hope he's ok...
TT
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The site says he was last active in May, so I hope he's OK too...
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I know this list been wee bit too quite since the author has gone quiet. I'm dropping this bit of information, likely Primitive DropShip (though it's not label as such.) I'm not sure if this was listed before or not.
Within a few decades of the dawn of spaceflight, humankind was building spacecraft larger than could be launched from Terra by a single
vessel. Unlike the spacecraft of the mid-twentieth century, twenty-first century spacecraft such as the Altair-class interplanetary vessels were not
expendable and required maintenance. The need for in-orbit assembly and maintenance quickly led to the development of pressurized and unpressurized
repair facilities.
The first manned interplanetary spacecraft (including the Altair-class spacecraft that journeyed from Terra to its in-system neighbor world of Mars, and the Columbia, humankind’s first fusion-powered manned spacecraft), and even supported
Altair is likely primitive chemical powered interplanetary Vessel
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Hey folks. Long time, no see.
I am moved by your concern for me. Truth is that it's not been 100% groundless as I've gone through a great deal of upheaval in my life and very little of it good.
It's taken me until recently to get level again and until just now before I had the time to tackle a year and half absence from the boards.
I've read over your generous contributions and I will make some edits.
On the CASPAR thing...computer-based alphabetization is a helluvadrug.
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Welcome back, beachhead1985! I hope it's smooth sailings for your life to come!
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Hey folks. Long time, no see.
I am moved by your concern for me. Truth is that it's not been 100% groundless as I've gone through a great deal of upheaval in my life and very little of it good.
It's taken me until recently to get level again and until just now before I had the time to tackle a year and half absence from the boards.
I've read over your generous contributions and I will make some edits.
On the CASPAR thing...computer-based alphabetization is a helluvadrug.
Welcome back! Glad things have settled down some.
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Hey folks. Long time, no see.
Welcome back, buddy!
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Welcome back! Glad to know our concerns were mostly baseless! :thumbsup:
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Great to have you back, beachhead!!
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Welcome Back!
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Thanks folks. That means a lot to me.
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Made a few small updates; Woden and Gatekeeper Stations and HK17 APC were the standouts for me.
Too bad about the Mastadon being a bipod.
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Glad to see you've returned.
One question:
Delavan-class Cruiser built by the Federated Suns---Periphery 1st ed, Pg.28
I cant find that reference on the stated page. Error somewhere?
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Glad to see you've returned.
One question:
I cant find that reference on the stated page. Error somewhere?
That line should either be deleted or changed to "Unnamed Strike Cruiser". The Delevan name comes from a non-canon ship that I made a long time ago and a piece of the fluff I wrote for it somehow ended up on Sarna as an unsourced bit of "canon".
The actual reference the page number is mentioning is this, referring to Case Amber:
"Intending to take advantage of this opportunity, the Davion strike force commander dispatched four squadrons of strike cruisers (three-fourths of the total Davion contingent) against the Tentativa system ."
There was a bit of discussion earlier in the thread over exactly what "squadrons of strike cruisers" might mean.
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Okay. A little disappointing, as I love discovering more old Warships in the deep lore, but understandable.
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That line should either be deleted or changed to "Unnamed Strike Cruiser". The Delevan name comes from a non-canon ship that I made a long time ago and a piece of the fluff I wrote for it somehow ended up on Sarna as an unsourced bit of "canon".
The actual reference the page number is mentioning is this, referring to Case Amber:
"Intending to take advantage of this opportunity, the Davion strike force commander dispatched four squadrons of strike cruisers (three-fourths of the total Davion contingent) against the Tentativa system ."
There was a bit of discussion earlier in the thread over exactly what "squadrons of strike cruisers" might mean.
Thank you for clarifying that! I felt like I was missing a trick somewhere re-reading the thread.
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Someone mentioned the PPC Locust as well and I am not sure about that one in that it may not be possible to create it under current rules as a legal and viable design.
I was able to just, *KINDA* make it work building from Heavy Metal Pro with the old armless option.
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It's really only viable if you shrink the engine size, otherwise it has no armor. Which makes sense, as it was considered a failure.
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It's really only viable if you shrink the engine size, otherwise it has no armor. Which makes sense, as it was considered a failure.
It actually also depends on how old the PPC version is, there was a period before the 1st SS in where the needed parts would be obtainable.
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Or depending on when, it could really have been a Snub version but that detail was lost to time along with tech.
Spirit Walker Omni from the latest Shrapnel . . . a Coyote Omni taken by the Mandrills?
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Or depending on when, it could really have been a Snub version but that detail was lost to time along with tech.
Spirit Walker Omni from the latest Shrapnel . . . a Coyote Omni taken by the Mandrills?
Given the name and that Smythe-Jewell had recently captured the technology from the Coyotes, almost certainly.
I mean, if it was called something like the Burning Munky, then maybe it'd be a Mandrill original design.
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I figured that, name screams it . . . but I thought it had been mentioned once before but never found it.
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Spirit Walker and the Night Chanter appear in the new Turning Points
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Spirit Walker and the Night Chanter appear in the new Turning Points
With art and stats?
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Yes though not new art [/spoilers]
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With art and stats?
Their remodelled Star League "Mechs, like TRO: Golden Century. It includes two Configurations.
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It's really only viable if you shrink the engine size, otherwise it has no armor. Which makes sense, as it was considered a failure.
Link to the atrocity I created...In order to abet someone else's atrocity in the old fluff?
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/battlemechs/deathtrap-ppc-locust/ (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/battlemechs/deathtrap-ppc-locust/)
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Royal Valkyrie was a mistake. You can strike that from your list. Sorry, I didn't answer that one sooner. I really need to review your list...
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Royal Valkyrie was a mistake. You can strike that from your list. Sorry, I didn't answer that one sooner. I really need to review your list...
That's cool. Just a name mix-up, wasn't it? I'll make that change directly.
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Are you aware of the Zoidstar website?
I was not, so I need to thank you for mentioning it. All I ever had of it was basically the first issue as a special (and Red Horn, Spider-, Tank- and Serpent- and Hellrunner from the much later re-releases; - I think Red Horn may still be lurking around somewhere in my loft toys, he's played a dragon in D&D a time or two since....!) (Never seen the anime, since it just didn't look as good.) Being able to read the rest after so many years is... A rare treat (especially as it is so very much in the vain as the (UK) Marvel Transformers run I have basically all of).
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It seems we may be missing "Purifier Police" battle armor.
The Purifier Terra entry in XTRO Phantoms describes a Purifier Adaptive variant "Purifier Police" that swaps the mimetic armor for standard enabling it to carry variety of weapons. The text then proceeds to describe the Purifier Terra variant, which, as we know carries Clan-grade armor.
We never got Purifier Police record sheets nor is it listed in MUL though, perhaps worth asking them about this...
Lacking RS makes sense though, the variant is pretty minor.
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TerraSec would mostly likely use them...
TT
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Do we have stats (aka a Record Sheet) for the Lineholder LH10? Someone on FB asked and looking thru we dont seem to have it because it’s supposed to be in RS: 3150… or am I blind?
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Do we have stats (aka a Record Sheet) for the Lineholder LH10? Someone on FB asked and looking thru we dont seem to have it because it’s supposed to be in RS: 3150… or am I blind?
It’s one from the NTNU section no record sheets for those, outside a few that got special treatment. Mainly the IWM record sheet ones I think.
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I'll add the Purifier Police and the Lineholder LH10.
The New-whatever sections were cool, but haven't been curated as they should have been...of course, nor do we yet have a single printed wet naval support record sheet to my knowledge, either.
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Didn't they make one as construction design example, only just not place it on an official looking page?
TT
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Didn't they make one as construction design example, only just not place it on an official looking page?
TT
Four books contain rules for large Naval Vessels; Max Tech (scant, but present), Combat Equipment, Tech Manual and Tac Ops. The latter three provide a degree of guidance on construction, but none deliver a filled record sheet that I can find.
I'd be thrilled to see a filled example.
Although in looking, I did find the "Soverign-Class" Wet Navy Support Vehicle, depicted by a model of a Sovremenny-class destroyer. I don't know if I even should include that though, given it's an unmodified 3rd-party model...
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Four books contain rules for large Naval Vessels; Max Tech (scant, but present), Combat Equipment, Tech Manual and Tac Ops. The latter three provide a degree of guidance on construction, but none deliver a filled record sheet that I can find.
I'd be thrilled to see a filled example.
Although in looking, I did find the "Sovereign-Class" Wet Navy Support Vehicle, depicted by a model of a Sovremenny-class destroyer. I don't know if I even should include that though, given it's an unmodified 3rd-party model...
I had reported that thing up thread along time ago. I love FanPro/Catalyst allow for use of the model. I am concern if we'll ever see it. The Raptor Patrol Destroyer I believe came from the MW PC games. I THINK it was MechWarrior IV series, but I can't remember if was inspiration for it or not.
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Did the Kestrel ever make the list? I was skimming thru Sarna.net and there was a line "Originally an old Clan design, the Kestrel was redesigned in 3007 by Wolf's Dragoons ..."
The variants do not mention an original 'clan' model.
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None of the Kestrel TRO entries, in the Wolf's Dragoons Sourcebook, TRO 3058, or TRO 3058 Upgrade, mention that it was ever a Clan design. They all agree that the Dragoons commissioned it from Blackwell in 3007, to serve as a transport for the Seventh Kommando. The Kestrel being a Clan design seems to be Sarna canon.
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Adding one, 2ndAcr spotted this on Sarna.net and I found it's entry in the MUL. The variant designation comes from MasterUnitList, which is the canon source, the Handbook does not supply the model name.
Fluff Downgrade variant of the Night Hawk, the NTP-2P variant. Not stats, just the House Steiner Handbook was the source / Mountain Wolf BattleMechs - P144.
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Did this make it to your list?
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Venturer_(WarShip_class) (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Venturer_(WarShip_class))
TT
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None of the Kestrel TRO entries, in the Wolf's Dragoons Sourcebook, TRO 3058, or TRO 3058 Upgrade, mention that it was ever a Clan design. They all agree that the Dragoons commissioned it from Blackwell in 3007, to serve as a transport for the Seventh Kommando. The Kestrel being a Clan design seems to be Sarna canon.
I think there's a common assumption that all the 'goons unique units have their orgins with the clans, which is understandable to a point, even the MAD II, can be understood that way in the context of "make us an assult tonnage marauder with an all energy armernment
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I think there's a common assumption that all the 'goons unique units have their orgins with the clans, which is understandable to a point, even the MAD II, can be understood that way in the context of "make us an assult tonnage marauder with an all energy armernment
ooh, it would be a very cool addition to the clan's touman if the MAD II turned out to be a clan, even if very, very rare. Although wasn't it one of the mechs that the Jags had on Huntress for evaluation?
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ooh, it would be a very cool addition to the clan's touman if the MAD II turned out to be a clan, even if very, very rare. Although wasn't it one of the mechs that the Jags had on Huntress for evaluation?
I doubt it's clan, but I could see a clan mechwarrior describing the marauder IIC to a sphereoid design team and the result being the MAD II
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or even a group of dragoons tasked with coming up with something new and original.
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I doubt it's clan, but I could see a clan mechwarrior describing the marauder IIC to a sphereoid design team and the result being the MAD II
Or a Clan Mechwarrior trying to replicate the Mad IIC with Succession Wars tech.
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Did this make it to your list?
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Venturer_(WarShip_class) (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Venturer_(WarShip_class))
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Got that one!
I had reported that thing up thread along time ago. I love FanPro/Catalyst allow for use of the model. I am concern if we'll ever see it. The Raptor Patrol Destroyer I believe came from the MW PC games. I THINK it was MechWarrior IV series, but I can't remember if was inspiration for it or not.
Assuming you mean the "Rapier" patrol destroyer, I'll skip that one, but you are correct in that you pointed out the Sovereign some time back.
Adding one, 2ndAcr spotted this on Sarna.net and I found it's entry in the MUL. The variant designation comes from MasterUnitList, which is the canon source, the Handbook does not supply the model name.
Fluff Downgrade variant of the Night Hawk, the NTP-2P variant. Not stats, just the House Steiner Handbook was the source / Mountain Wolf BattleMechs - P144.
Added!
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Clan APC Sub = Baleena IIC?
Just curious, as it is mentioned in the write up of supporting underwater infantry formations.
I mean, 200 tons is alot, but to carry 20 Passengers and Scuba Infantry are 20...
Also, a Manta (Sub) can fit inside this as well.
5 Baleena IIC, 5 Manta and 100 Scuba Infantry = a Water Nova Star in my Book.
TT
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Clan APC Sub = Baleena IIC?
Just curious, as it is mentioned in the write up of supporting underwater infantry formations.
I mean, 200 tons is alot, but to carry 20 Passengers and Scuba Infantry are 20...
Also, a Manta (Sub) can fit inside this as well.
5 Baleena IIC, 5 Manta and 100 Scuba Infantry = a Water Nova Star in my Book.
TT
You could likely use the stats, but the citation comes from (I think!) FM:Crusader Clans where they describe using them to deploy elemental points during the invasion. I could be wrong on the details, but the Baleena is a very large boat and large was not a detail which was important in the description.
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Technically, the Baleena IIC carried 20 Passengers, a 50-ton Light Vee Bay and 40-ton Cargobay with 2 Doors.
So, there is that canon fact.
But I understand the need for clarity.
TT
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None of the Kestrel TRO entries, in the Wolf's Dragoons Sourcebook, TRO 3058, or TRO 3058 Upgrade, mention that it was ever a Clan design. They all agree that the Dragoons commissioned it from Blackwell in 3007, to serve as a transport for the Seventh Kommando. The Kestrel being a Clan design seems to be Sarna canon.
There is no Sarna canon, only honest mistakes. I've removed the Clan General Combat Vehicle category tag from the Kestrel article and pinged the original editor who put the tag in back in 2011 just in case he knows something that we have all overlooked.
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The Lightning listed as missing, and described in the Rec Guide Vol 7 Entry for the War Crow was published in ilClan Rec Guide Vol. 14. The CCAF made it to be a companion 'Mech to the Thunder.
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The Lightning listed as missing, and described in the Rec Guide Vol 7 Entry for the War Crow was published in ilClan Rec Guide Vol. 14. The CCAF made it to be a companion 'Mech to the Thunder.
Noted and logged! Thank you!
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There is no Sarna canon, only honest mistakes. I've removed the Clan General Combat Vehicle category tag from the Kestrel article and pinged the original editor who put the tag in back in 2011 just in case he knows something that we have all overlooked.
Great job!
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whelp ... scratch that off the list! :thumbsup:
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From your list of missing 'Mechs, the White Raven described in the War Crow write up was detailed in ilClan Rec Guide Vol 12. Clan Snow Raven created the White Raven from their arch-nemesis Clan Steel Viper's Black Python.
The TDR-12R is described, and the record sheet is available, in ilClan Recognition Guide Vol 15
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"Marauder II Ballistic Weapons Variant---TRO 3050, takes of advantage of useless CASE in wrong torso." probably refers to the MAD-5C from ilClan Recognition Guide Volume 05
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"Atlas AS8-K ---Rec Guide 7 War Crow Writeup, Ballistic-Reinforced Armour" is one of the two featured Atlas variant in ilClan Recognition Guide Volume 24.
"Amarok---Wolf Design mentioned in Hammerhead Fluff in Rec Guide 5" appears in "Hour of the Wolf" and is described in ilClan Recognition Guide Volume 17 (it is on the cover for this volume, too).
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"Marauder II Ballistic Weapons Variant---TRO 3050, takes of advantage of useless CASE in wrong torso." probably refers to the MAD-5C from ilClan Recognition Guide Volume 05
I give you full points for all of those, S.gage! Well done.
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Someone brought up the Falcon vehicle construction example from CityTech, right? That's an honest vehicle design. I don't know if the readout on Sarna is legit, which means it could look like any hover craft, if you want. But, it's still lacking a true mini and art and TRO entry, last I knew.
Sorry to bring this up if it's been stated already.
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Someone brought up the Falcon vehicle construction example from CityTech, right? That's an honest vehicle design. I don't know if the readout on Sarna is legit, which means it could look like any hover craft, if you want. But, it's still lacking a true mini and art and TRO entry, last I knew.
Sorry to bring this up if it's been stated already.
Is it this?
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4154/falcon-hover-tank
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Yes, that's it. The Falcon from the CityTech construction rules finally got its due in Rec Guide 27.
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Ooh! :o
A very uninspiring block of a hovertank. I like it! :thumbsup:
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Yes, that's it. The Falcon from the CityTech construction rules finally got its due in Rec Guide 27.
Awesome! I just downloaded that. I'm disappointed with how they handled the Whirlwind, but that's done as well.
Well done again, all!
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A few additional things that can be struck off the list.
Callisto - published in RG31
Command Van - published in RG29
Muckraker - published in TRO: Irregulars
Kontio - published in RG21
Lineholder LH10 - published in RS3150
Longinus C - ditto
Orion C - ditto
Tempest C - ditto
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Oh, and sorry if I already said this and I'm repeating myself, but the names Artos and Athalwolf were errata'd out of existence and replaced with Stormwolf and Amarok, respectively.
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Oh, and sorry if I already said this and I'm repeating myself, but the names Artos and Athalwolf were errata'd out of existence and replaced with Stormwolf and Amarok, respectively.
Wow! Thanks for all your (very user-friendly!) help, Greekfire and I am sorry if I made you do a repost.
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Yes, that's it. The Falcon from the CityTech construction rules finally got its due in Rec Guide 27.
Looking it up on Sarna we've actually likely had stats for it for a while, it was in Record Sheets Volume Five: Vehicles, what we've just gotten might be art.
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Looking it up on Sarna we've actually likely had stats for it for a while, it was in Record Sheets Volume Five: Vehicles, what we've just gotten might be art.
and a full TRO-style entry.
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I know, which was why I had MBear put them in.
Falcon from CityTech and Merlin from BattleTech, both were used as construction examples way back when!
They forgot to build them as official units at the back of the book, where we had to photocopy or physically write them out and play.
Ah, good times that...
TT
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It is too bad, the Aethelwolf has some symbolism as the father of Alfred the Great who led to the formation of the English nation.
ANYWAY . . .
Here is a NEW one to add . . .
Spectre (WD?)
Instead of the Light Guass it comes with, it has a AP Gauss
Redemption Rites, pg 247 hints at it but pg 250 & 252 out right says AP Gauss and pg 253 keeps talking about it.
Still has the stealth armor, but pg 247 says the composite was carefully retrofit by Dragoons techs
not sure about MagClamps b/c it was carried by a Omni- though they DID overload the Omni, 3 points between 2 Omnis
still has the vibroclaw
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It is too bad, the Aethelwolf has some symbolism as the father of Alfred the Great who led to the formation of the English nation.
ANYWAY . . .
Here is a NEW one to add . . .
Spectre (WD?)
Instead of the Light Guass it comes with, it has a AP Gauss
Redemption Rites, pg 247 hints at it but pg 250 & 252 out right says AP Gauss and pg 253 keeps talking about it.
Still has the stealth armor, but pg 247 says the composite was carefully retrofit by Dragoons techs
not sure about MagClamps b/c it was carried by a Omni- though they DID overload the Omni, 3 points between 2 Omnis
still has the vibroclaw
Okay, great! I'll add that!
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From Wrangler’s observation in TRO: 3025
Union CV
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=82078.0
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Off the top of my head there are a few variants of the original mech mover trio that don't have record sheets.
Leopard-Combined Arms (Removes 2 ASF for some # of Infantry/Vees)
Union-Combined Arms (Removes 2 ASF for some # of Infantry/Vees)
Union-CV (Converts 12 Mech Bays to 12 added ASF Bays)
Overlord-2 (Converts 12 Mech Bays to 12 Heavy Vee Bays + Cargo)
Overlord-Command (Converts 4 Mech Bays into "Command Quarters")
Overlord-CV (Converts ?? Mech Bays to ?? ASF Bays)
Technically there are even more variants but those are semi specific mentions v/s fluff just saying "many modifications".
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From Wrangler’s observation in TRO: 3025
Union CV
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=82078.0
Off the top of my head there are a few variants of the original mech mover trio that don't have record sheets.
Leopard-Combined Arms (Removes 2 ASF for some # of Infantry/Vees)
Union-Combined Arms (Removes 2 ASF for some # of Infantry/Vees)
Union-CV (Converts 12 Mech Bays to 12 added ASF Bays)
Overlord-2 (Converts 12 Mech Bays to 12 Heavy Vee Bays + Cargo)
Overlord-Command (Converts 4 Mech Bays into "Command Quarters")
Overlord-CV (Converts ?? Mech Bays to ?? ASF Bays)
Technically there are even more variants but those are semi specific mentions v/s fluff just saying "many modifications".
Geeze, that's weird. Because these are all fairly well-known, right? They'd be the living examples of missing record sheets. I'll add these.
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nevermind
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Looks like there was a submersible construction mech version of the Horned Owl (Peregrine).
Its mentioned in the fluff for 'mech in RecGuide vol1 Classics.
This version was reworked to become original version of the BattleMech
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Looks like there was a submersible construction mech version of the Horned Owl (Peregrine).
Its mentioned in the fluff for 'mech in RecGuide vol1 Classics.
This version was reworked to become original version of the BattleMech
Wow! That sounds really cool too!
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Is there art for the Clan Sea Fox Arcships? I noticed you have Fox (Sea Fox/Diamond Shark) which I think is one of the Arcships on your list crossed out but I can't find any comments on it in this thread, it seems to just appear and is crossed out at some point. The Arcships are said to be of different dimensions than the Potemkins they were modified from so a Potemkin picture shouldn't suffice.
I'm pretty sure there is no record sheet for the Arcships as they would need new rules for their permanently attached dropships and such.
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Is there art for the Clan Sea Fox Arcships? I noticed you have Fox (Sea Fox/Diamond Shark) which I think is one of the Arcships on your list crossed out but I can't find any comments on it in this thread, it seems to just appear and is crossed out at some point. The Arcships are said to be of different dimensions than the Potemkins they were modified from so a Potemkin picture shouldn't suffice.
I'm pretty sure there is no record sheet for the Arcships as they would need new rules for their permanently attached dropships and such.
You'd be correct, there isn't any kind record sheets or basic stats. From Hunters of the Deep MWDA novel, the modifications to each individual former WarShip are pretty significantly different from one another.
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You'd be correct, there isn't any kind record sheets or basic stats. From Hunters of the Deep MWDA novel, the modifications to each individual former WarShip are pretty significantly different from one another.
Fox (Sea Fox/Diamond Shark)
Should it be crossed out then? I thought the crossed out ones are the ones that we got a picture/record sheet for.
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Should it be crossed out then? I thought the crossed out ones are the ones that we got a picture/record sheet for.
That line concerns the Fox BattleMech.
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That line concerns the Fox BattleMech.
Oh I see. So then should the Clan Sea Fox Arcships like Fox and Spina be added to the Never-Seen list?
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Oh I see. So then should the Clan Sea Fox Arcships like Fox and Spina be added to the Never-Seen list?
Yes, it should be added.
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Yes, it should be added.
Actually; I'll add those to the mech-it lube, where the unique and custom designs are all supposed to go....realizing as I write how long its been since I checked to see if there are any of those on the never-seen list...
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So I was looking at the TRO: Vehicle Annex books. In the large Naval (surface) vehicle section (AKA the regular size naval warships) , the examples of the large naval ships here notes that they were replacing Star League Defense Force era ships as they've were needed to be replaced. We've never seen norhad stats for these ships other than this arguably passing mention in the book fluff for navalships featured in the book. I need to double check see if also in the other old House Handbooks. What I've read in old forums, their chore and half your build. This why I suspect reasons we've never seen one.
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So I was looking at the TRO: Vehicle Annex books. In the large Naval (surface) vehicle section (AKA the regular size naval warships) , the examples of the large naval ships here notes that they were replacing Star League Defense Force era ships as they've were needed to be replaced. We've never seen norhad stats for these ships other than this arguably passing mention in the book fluff for navalships featured in the book. I need to double check see if also in the other old House Handbooks. What I've read in old forums, their chore and half your build. This why I suspect reasons we've never seen one.
There might be more in the MUL, it seems like they used that as a means to fill in a lot of gaps in a minimalist, alpha-strike way.
But yeah; any support vehicle is a hugely labour-intensive project to build by hand or in excel. Even MegaMekLab doesn't seen very functional in that regard yet.
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Beachhead,
Ballena IIC could be the Clan APC Sub missing from the list...
TT
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Tactics of Duty, Ch. 24
RX-30 SpyEyes, "small gadgets used by governments and militaries throughout the Inner Sphere, especially by the various security agencies. They were little more than a camera and a transmitter mounted on six walking legs, a primitive, battery-powered robot small enough to hold in the palm of your hand. Too slow and too fragile to be efficient as scouts in battle, they were invaluable as silent, near-invisible sentries around a military base."
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Beachhead,
Ballena IIC could be the Clan APC Sub missing from the list...
TT
Could well be. The Clan APC sub is one of the original entries from before the last forum crash. I remembered it, but not the context. I have the impression that they were originally cited as being in one of the very early Clan SBs and the back-dating of the Baleena IIC might cover it. But I can't recall the original details, I just have this vague impression of them being smaller (read; as small as possible) vessels from some scenario or bit of fluff text or what have you.
Until we get more data, if we ever do, we won't know for sure. But you could be 100% right.
The problem there is that most of the stuff from "Old is the new-new" and "New is the new-new" and whatever else they called it was written up as short paragraphs, but I haven't scraped up the time or the gumption to do a line by line and see which have been statted out or had record sheets produced and which have not.
Tactics of Duty, Ch. 24
RX-30 SpyEyes, "small gadgets used by governments and militaries throughout the Inner Sphere, especially by the various security agencies. They were little more than a camera and a transmitter mounted on six walking legs, a primitive, battery-powered robot small enough to hold in the palm of your hand. Too slow and too fragile to be efficient as scouts in battle, they were invaluable as silent, near-invisible sentries around a military base."
Cool! I'll take this opportunity to add a "MechWarrior" Equipment section.
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Maritime APCs! That's what my APC threads are missing! ;D
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Maritime APCs! That's what my APC threads are missing! ;D
(I try to add amphibious or limited amphibious to every wheeled/tracked veh I make! -- will make my way down to fan designs soon to see what you put up)
I do not remember having seen an blue water troop transports? have there been any?
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Not that I know of, and it's late enough I'll have to defer any designs to tomorrow at least... RL is exciting enough right now that it may be the weekend before I can get to that... ;)
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(I try to add amphibious or limited amphibious to every wheeled/tracked veh I make! -- will make my way down to fan designs soon to see what you put up)
I do not remember having seen an blue water troop transports? have there been any?
Just the mech landing craft that I know of.
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You know, I have something that might shake you up BH!
I've complained about not having a Ryuken-yon Armor RS, the lowly Arrow SRM Carrier variant.
Yet, it's not on your list.
Officially :
The SRM Carriers are semi-OmniVehicles, which means they can accept Arrow IV launchers if necessary.
A quick rundown is 15 tons, half the SRMs, for A4+ one ton ammo, minimum.
But dropping a ton of SRM ammo adds endurance, another ton somewhere, CASE would in/decrease armor by 8 points. Why switch to FF when KISS principles apply?
It is an awesome vehicle, try one!
TT
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I wouldn't go so far as to say they are "Omni" at all.
They just use the same Chassis.
They are still built as completely different upper halves (Non-Turrets).
Similar to an M-113
That said, has the Arrow Carrier ever been given stats?
My assumption would just be 2 launchers & 4 ammo so its a full swap from the SRM/LRM models with 30 tons of launchers & 4 of ammo.
Where is the variant mentioned?
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That said, has the Arrow Carrier ever been given stats?
My assumption would just be 2 launchers & 4 ammo so its a full swap from the SRM/LRM models with 30 tons of launchers & 4 of ammo.
Where is the variant mentioned?
It comes from Field Manual: Draconis Combine as a special type of SRM carrier used by the Ryuken-yo. No record sheet has been published but there is an official Alpha Strike card, and based on that your assumption that it carries 2 Arrow IV launchers is probably correct.
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An SRM carrier can also hold two AC/20s so that seems like the likely conversion
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While researching jumpers I read the Mingo Dropship.
Is she on your list?
Conestoga write up.
TT
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Mingo is in the Touring the Stars book, just not the dropship not listed yet on sarna.net. Its using the Vulture art as representation of the ship.
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PDF exclusives don't often get original art for non-mech assets. the vulture is the current canon art for it as that's what appears on the record sheet in TTS: Valencia
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PDF exclusives don't often get original art for non-mech assets. the vulture is the current canon art for it as that's what appears on the record sheet in TTS: Valencia
Which is a little sad IMO but I 100% understand why it’s done…. Which means I’m about to go double post in the ‘things I wish we had that would lose money thread’
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It comes from Field Manual: Draconis Combine as a special type of SRM carrier used by the Ryuken-yo. No record sheet has been published but there is an official Alpha Strike card, and based on that your assumption that it carries 2 Arrow IV launchers is probably correct.
Thanks for the info, I looked that up in the MUL.
Interesting, with 2 points of armor, doesn't that translate to 60+ points of TW Scale armor?
Base SRM Carrier is only 48 points AFAIK.
Ferro would take that to 53.
I wonder how they get the armor up or is my math/reasoning off?
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My guess would be that 45 points and up round to 60...
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Divide by 30, round normal. So yes, 45 / 30 would be 1.5 and round normal to 2.
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Thanks for the confirmation! :)
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round normal.
Ah, Ok, I thought they rounded down everything now.
Good to know.
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Hey,
Trader-class jump ship...
Do we still have no statblock for it?
TT
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Hey,
Trader-class jump ship...
Do we still have no statblock for it?
TT
truetanker, you need state where you found it.
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truetanker, you need state where you found it.
:cheesy:
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Trader_(JumpShip_class) (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Trader_(JumpShip_class))
Two references, IO and a novel.: Fall Down Seven Times, Get Up Eight, Randall Bills
Yes, that Randall Bills, current white goatee beard of ye olde Battletech Line Developer.
Mayhaps he might have statblock?
TT
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,82548.0.html (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,82548.0.html)
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Added the Trader Jumpship and two entries for Arrow-IV Missile Carriers.
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This occurred to me: we’ve never gotten the Record Sheet for the Cestus in Flashpoint. IIRC Corporal Smiths customized Cestus with JJ but it keeps everything else weapon wise from what I remember.
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This occurred to me: we’ve never gotten the Record Sheet for the Cestus in Flashpoint. IIRC Corporal Smiths customized Cestus with JJ but it keeps everything else weapon wise from what I remember.
I'd added that here, to the Mech-it-Lube, where I try and record unique designs we lack data for. https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,68211.msg1581307.html#msg1581307 (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,68211.msg1581307.html#msg1581307)
I wonder though; it sounds A LOT like Candace (?) Liao's jumping Cestus from one of the Capellan Solution (?) books. So, I wonder if we got more data for that one, if we'd just find out it was a limited-production or higher-quality "Royal"-ish variant?
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I'd added that here, to the Mech-it-Lube, where I try and record unique designs we lack data for. https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,68211.msg1581307.html#msg1581307 (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,68211.msg1581307.html#msg1581307)
I wonder though; it sounds A LOT like Candace (?) Liao's jumping Cestus from one of the Capellan Solution (?) books. So, I wonder if we got more data for that one, if we'd just find out it was a limited-production or higher-quality "Royal"-ish variant?
I’ll bookmark that thread as well, but from first impressions needs an update lol
I forgot about her ride: I’ll have to check that book too.
I haven’t tried it out in MML in a while but for Jump Jets you need four tons of which their isn’t a lot to take away other than switching to FF and armor.
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I’ll bookmark that thread as well, but from first impressions needs an update lol
Entirely possible.
I did just recently swap a few over from this thread to that one that I realized more properly belonged there, however, but it's not been posted to in quite some time.
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Found something, Black Eagle primitive Dropship from the XTRO Primitives. Vol 2.
The mech carrier main variant been based on the combat vehicle carrier, it does have a MUL entry , has no record sheet or battle value.
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Wheel Space Station of the Wheel System
There is this:
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Wheeler_(Space_Station_class) (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Wheeler_(Space_Station_class))
Same?
TT
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Found something, Black Eagle primitive Dropship from the XTRO Primitives. Vol 2.
The mech carrier main variant been based on the combat vehicle carrier, it does have a MUL entry , has no record sheet or battle value.
Oh. Yeah, that fits.
Wheel Space Station of the Wheel System
There is this:
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Wheeler_(Space_Station_class) (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Wheeler_(Space_Station_class))
Same?
TT
It could be.
Part of this list is getting things *like that* confirmed too. AFAIK; there is no connection but the name, the Space Station(S) of the Wheel system could be able type we have already seen or something new entirely.
The sarna article replicates the original Battletechnology article https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Wheel (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Wheel) and describes two stations; the larger of which the wheeler dwarfs. While comparable, they are clearly different; the ice/gas-mining station is something we haven't seen yet, either.
Were it up to me I'd add a zero to the size of the Wheel station's grav deck and go from there. But then it also has the long needle-like structure, which we might see attributed in rules if we ever get the Gulf Breeze station recordsheet; the subject of which is said to be docked at it's base to the moon through a similar structure.
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Add to the MechWarrior equipment: TK Industries HG-90 Gyrojets Rifle, Finding Jardine
Herb hasn't graced us with a Gyrojet Shrapnel article yet so there's a perfect outlet for this, too.
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Add to the MechWarrior equipment: TK Industries HG-90 Gyrojets Rifle, Finding Jardine
Herb hasn't graced us with a Gyrojet Shrapnel article yet so there's a perfect outlet for this, too.
Nice one! Thanks!
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From Proliferation Cycle, which I finally got to read.
Personal equipment
Mauser 480; the HAF standard laser rifle, capable of being modified into a non-lethal configuration
Waltham L-90 Service Laser; a Mackie-era laser pistol, potentially Terran in origin
Kawasaki Shuriken-12 Autopistol; a 15+1 shot handgun, able to be had with a snubnosed configuration, illegal in the Commonwealth
Mauser & Gray SP-7 SMG; a Lyran weapon apparently considered suitable for special operations use
Terran Arms XM30 Carbine; actually came across this during research; it's a bullpup assault rifle in service with the Terran Alliance Global Militia as of 2236 and it is mentioned in the short story "inverted"
PM231; a palm-coded officer's pistol also from Inverted, in use at the same time, by the same people as the XM30
Vehicles
Desert Cobra; another HAF VTOL design
"Firebringer"; an example of an unnamed(?) class of 1,000-ton cargo shuttles. From Prometheus Unbound
McQuiston-Class Cargo Shuttle; no further details offered(?). From Prometheus Unbound
Traveller-Class Mail shuttle; a type of dropshuttle or smallcraft, aerodyne in nature (because it taxis by itself), in use in the FWL in 2466 and apparently quite common then
Warlock; Clan Coyote early assault Omnimech, may be a working name for a design that was later renamed.
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Terran Arms XM30 Carbine could be a version of the Vintage Auto Rifle?
I mean, name brand and all...
TT
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I think the Vintage Auto-Rifle is 20th century... that XM30 should have something above the V-AR's 2/3, but maybe short of the 4/4 of the "modern" Auto-Rifle...
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Terran Arms XM30 Carbine could be a version of the Vintage Auto Rifle?
I mean, name brand and all...
TT
I never considered that. Were there years, or periods attached to the "Vintage" weapons?
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No, but consider this 3000 was the most common era to start.
And if the weapon didn't have a time or era it was built mentioned, it would fall into "current" 3000 BC.
So, if the stat block said Star League, or anything in the fluff mentioning it, one could say it was around, or a earlier mod. of it.
TT
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Interstellar Operations (page 55) gives the bog standard Auto Rifle an intro date of "pre-space flight", so the XM30 could be that after all. Or, since it's a name brand, it could be one of the equivalents that doesn't "jam on fumble".
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And if the weapon didn't have a time or era it was built mentioned, it would fall into "current" 3000 BC.
So, uh, bronze?
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Before Coolio. In 6000, the reincarnation of the legendary hip hop artist returns to earth to lead the 8th star league
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Before Coolio. In 6000, the reincarnation of the legendary hip hop artist returns to earth to lead the 8th star league
Mind your NDA, man!
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Before Coolio. In 6000, the reincarnation of the legendary hip hop artist returns to earth to lead the 8th star league
Opposed by the rest of the Inner Sphere led by Legendary artist (and First Prince) Alfred Yankovich.
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Opposed by the rest of the Inner Sphere led by Legendary artist (and First Prince) Alfred Yankovich.
"Bobby, Al Yankovich blew his brains out in the late 80's when people stopped buying his records. He's not worth gettin' into trouble over."
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*Meanwhile, in the Kerensky Cluster, Fire Mandrill Khan, Michael Jackson, is Moonwalking over his latest tantrum... *
TT
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This thread is way more fun on the inside than it looks like to anyone happening on it.
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I'd added that here, to the Mech-it-Lube, where I try and record unique designs we lack data for. https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,68211.msg1581307.html#msg1581307 (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,68211.msg1581307.html#msg1581307)
I wonder though; it sounds A LOT like Candace (?) Liao's jumping Cestus from one of the Capellan Solution (?) books. So, I wonder if we got more data for that one, if we'd just find out it was a limited-production or higher-quality "Royal"-ish variant?
My gut feeling the jumping Cestus were prototypes variants which after Flashpoint novel commentary that for fluff reasons Cestus can't jump. Which compounded them ultimately IRL been deemed as unique or failed one offs. There zero mechanics that prevent them from having Jump Jets.
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My gut feeling the jumping Cestus were prototypes variants which after Flashpoint novel commentary that for fluff reasons Cestus can't jump. Which compounded them ultimately IRL been deemed as unique or failed one offs. There zero mechanics that prevent them from having Jump Jets.
Might have been. But the info we have is for one, single example. Since jump jets don't explicitly include tonnage for additional leg reinforcement, I figure that technically any mech could have them added.
Based on the Cestus physical configuration though, I *don't think* you'd pick one for your team for mech basket ball at Noisel though. Good elbows though.
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The idea of certain 'mechs having jump jets just seems "wrong" to me based on their physical appearance. Battle of Tukayyid has a jumping Warhammer and I simply can't picture it. The Warhammer is so blocky and stompy.
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The idea of certain 'mechs having jump jets just seems "wrong" to me based on their physical appearance. Battle of Tukayyid has a jumping Warhammer and I simply can't picture it. The Warhammer is so blocky and stompy.
Actually, the Warhammer's progenitor from Macross features two thrusters on its lower back just for that purpose/flying around in space as Macross stuff is want to do.
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That, and just look at a Battleaxe... ;)