A design philosophy question

[DoctorMonkey]

Dear all,


I'm trying to work out about optimal weapon placement for a heavier weight 'Mech


Should I place the lighter/shorter ranged weapons (eg medium lasers) in the arms or torso versus placing heavier weapons (eg PPCs or Gauss Rifles)?


The thinking being that the lighter weapons benefit from the additional reach of arm mounts when someone tries to backstab or is it better to have the heavy weapons there so the shorter ranged ones can be used from the torso as the arms land punches?


I'm sort of debating the Warhammer versus Pillager examples

[Tai Dai Cultist]

Well the primary consideration for arms vs torso is the arms have a wider field of fire vs the torso is more survivable (i.e. arms tend to get shot off first).

[monbvol]

There is no universal/optimal answer to this question really.

But if you need guidance consider the Mech's role and what exactly it is going to be armed with.

For example a brawler isn't always going to get to punch but by having weapons with minimum ranges in the arms instead of the torso and the short ranged guns in the torsos will probably get more out of the opportunities where it can punch.

[Daryk]

Generally, you shouldn't need more than one or two lighter weapons in the arms to dissuade (or punish) a lighter backstabber.  Anything you want to fire when you punch should be in the torsos.

[worktroll]

For snipers/missile boats, then definitely heavy weapons in torso, short-range weapons in arms.

If you're going to be a brawler, then reverse.

If you're an juggernaut, porque nos las dos?

[Tai Dai Cultist]

And if you're building/configuring a Battle Armor taxi, you want as few weapons in the torsos as possible.

[monbvol]

For snipers/missile boats, then definitely heavy weapons in torso, short-range weapons in arms.

If you're going to be a brawler, then reverse.

If you're an juggernaut, porque nos las dos?

The only trouble is there are always exceptions.  Take a Jagermech or a Rifleman as a couple of examples.  Their ability to flip arms with their main guns there gives them a lot of flexibility for their roles that putting their guns in the torsos instead wouldn't grant and I doubt anyone would call them brawlers.

Or the King Crab.  Thanks to critical slot limitations some of the AC-20s have to go in the arms but I doubt anyone would call it anything other than a brawler.

[worktroll]

These are just guidelines, true. But while arm-flipping is useful, doing it with weapons with minimum ranges can be a problem if you're trying to scratch your own back. I'd rather have an SNPPC or LPL, or some MPLs, in a standard arm mount for that purpose.

[Alsadius]

This discussion of punching is weird to me. Aside from 60+ton TSM boats where the goal is to decapitate with punches, kicks are usually superior. Same total damage, better at blowing a hole in the target, better to-hit rolls(dramatically so if you're using advanced units with the arm actuators removed for the slots), and as long as you're rolling on 7 or better the PSR is a good thing overall. I only ever punch on awful to-hit rolls, or when it's impossible to kick for whatever reason, and neither of those is a compelling reason to keep weapons out of the arms.

I tend to prefer bigger weapons in the torso and smaller ones in the arms, but it's a very mild preference, and quite dependent on the mech.

[DoctorMonkey]

This discussion of punching is weird to me. Aside from 60+ton TSM boats where the goal is to decapitate with punches, kicks are usually superior. Same total damage, better at blowing a hole in the target, better to-hit rolls(dramatically so if you're using advanced units with the arm actuators removed for the slots), and as long as you're rolling on 7 or better the PSR is a good thing overall. I only ever punch on awful to-hit rolls, or when it's impossible to kick for whatever reason, and neither of those is a compelling reason to keep weapons out of the arms.

I tend to prefer bigger weapons in the torso and smaller ones in the arms, but it's a very mild preference, and quite dependent on the mech.

I seem to have a very high rate of falling over after missing with kicks (at least in MegaMech)

[Daryk]

Even without TSM, 6 point punches from 55-ton 'mechs can be worthwhile.

[Cannonshop]

Dear all,


I'm trying to work out about optimal weapon placement for a heavier weight 'Mech


Should I place the lighter/shorter ranged weapons (eg medium lasers) in the arms or torso versus placing heavier weapons (eg PPCs or Gauss Rifles)?


The thinking being that the lighter weapons benefit from the additional reach of arm mounts when someone tries to backstab or is it better to have the heavy weapons there so the shorter ranged ones can be used from the torso as the arms land punches?


I'm sort of debating the Warhammer versus Pillager examples

Role dictates more than weight class, and 'trooper' can be anything from a long-range in the arms with short range in the torso, to long range in the torso with short range arms, depending on how you're going to be using it.

in general, with TSM, I tend to put as many things in the torso as possible, with some secondary weapons in the arms for that initial 'Heat' to kick it off, but then, most of MY designs tend to run in the 50-65 ton ranges, with a strong bias for 55 ton Shadowhawk clones (for that lovely headcapper punch or leg-removing kick.)

non-TSM, I still tend to fill torsoes first, with an arrangement so that I have as few "Roll again" slots as possible.  (I prefer 'xombie' builds,even when heat-balancing), though there's something to be said for the old Warhammer's layout, and it's something good, since by the time you're in punching distance, you can't hit with the arm-mounted PPC anyhow, though I like the Thug's hands.

come to think of it, now, I'd say the Thug (THG-xx) would be a good model for a 'trooper' 'mech, but maybe with TSM and swapping energy weapons for the SRM packs (or at least one of them) and CASE. 

[Alsadius]

Even without TSM, 6 point punches from 55-ton 'mechs can be worthwhile.

Agreed, but usually less worthwhile than the 11-point kick(at -1 to hit) would be. If the THN for the punches are 7+, then they'll average 7 damage total. The kick will average 7.94 damage, and a 72% chance of forcing a PSR on your opponent, in exchange for a 28% chance of a PSR on yourself. That's usually a good trade. If I can choose freely between the two, I'd take the kick unless the head's already been hit and is within decapitation range. I don't see loss of punching as a meaningful drawback to arm-mounting weapons.

[Iceweb]

While punches tend to just go for a decap shot, there is also benefit if you are in the rear arc of trying to tear the gyro out of a mech through the thinner rear armor. 

Also if using quirks the bonus from battlefist(s) evens the to hit roll playing field between punches and kicks.