Author Topic: Steel Viper Khans in the Great Refusal  (Read 2333 times)

Batman

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Steel Viper Khans in the Great Refusal
« on: 03 March 2018, 01:09:47 »
So this one had me scratching my head for years. At first I thought the Vipers just hated Freebirths and the Inner Sphere being full of them, I figured that would be a prime target for their hostility. But if the information on Sarna is correct, the Steel Vipers had two Crusader Khans during the vote for the Great Refusal. So why didn't they participate, writer oversight?

Chinless

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Re: Steel Viper Khans in the Great Refusal
« Reply #1 on: 04 March 2018, 12:21:51 »
So this one had me scratching my head for years. At first I thought the Vipers just hated Freebirths and the Inner Sphere being full of them, I figured that would be a prime target for their hostility. But if the information on Sarna is correct, the Steel Vipers had two Crusader Khans during the vote for the Great Refusal. So why didn't they participate, writer oversight?

As a Clan the Steel Vipers are described as not being staunch supporters of the Crusader cause, being neither Warden or Crusader, but rather wanting to go their own way. The Clans: Warriors of Kerensky p93, and also FM:Warden Clans p138 mention this.

As such, they must have been amongst the 7 Warden Clans that voted to sustain the Great Rufusal challenge. Its covered in chapter 5 of the Prince of Havoc novel, but the Vipers are never mentioned by name. 

Hope that helps.

Chris W

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Re: Steel Viper Khans in the Great Refusal
« Reply #2 on: 04 March 2018, 15:10:28 »
Thank you. I'm reading through both. It just confuses me that newer canon implies that ilKhan Andrews wanted to push for a renewal of the Invasion. Would it be correct to say they had a change of heart?

Cubby

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Re: Steel Viper Khans in the Great Refusal
« Reply #3 on: 08 March 2018, 13:16:50 »
I always took the Steel Vipers' lack of participation in the Great Refusal to be them sitting it out, than outright siding with the Wardens.

Remember that at the time of the Great Refusal in April 3060, the Vipers had just endured some pretty nasty internal strife two years earlier centered around the botched attempt by saKhan Christopher Ahmed, a Warden, to advance that cause during the Refusal War. The revelation of Ahmed's actions, his trial, and his subsequent death at Andrews' hands gave both the Crusader faction and the remaining Wardens among the Vipers lots of reason to be angry at each other.

From Sarna, by way of Field Manual Warden Clans:

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The trial of Christopher Ahmed caused great anger among many of his supporters though, and for the next few months the Steel Vipers were paralyzed by political infighting

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With Ahmed went a great deal of the Warden political clout within his Clan, allowing the Steel Vipers to shift toward a more Crusader-like path than ever before, while still espousing the vision of Sanra Mercer.

Plus, the Vipers were in a rebuilding/restaging phase after suffering some losses in the Harvest Trials following the Refusal War and, more importantly, gearing up for their attack on the Jade Falcon Occupation Zone in 3061.

Coming off a major internal issue and with their own major military campaign imminent, it's not hard to imagine that Zalman and Andrews were willing to side with the Wardens by default rather than by active choice. Given that one of Andrews' first actions as ilKhan was to put the repudiation of the Great Refusal to a final vote, I always figured his and Zalman's votes in 3060 were just them playing the long game--"we're not going to stand by this anyway, but why be bound by it if the Crusaders lose?"

As far as Andrews having a change of heart, remember that the Vipers are Mercer-first, Warden/Crusader second, so someone like Andrews could (and did) rise to power along those lines, and could probably excuse his having voted to not participate in the Great Refusal and calling for its repudiation through that lens.
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Chinless

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Re: Steel Viper Khans in the Great Refusal
« Reply #4 on: 09 March 2018, 14:02:59 »
Thank you. I'm reading through both. It just confuses me that newer canon implies that ilKhan Andrews wanted to push for a renewal of the Invasion. Would it be correct to say they had a change of heart?

Not really, no. WoK p93 also mentions the Viper's were aiming to "fulfill Khan Mercer's vision: that the Vipers would one day lead all the Clans back to the Inner Sphere."

As Cubby mentioned in his reply, the Viper's weren't really in the position to do that in 3060 so perhaps decided to sit it out and conserve their strength. Khan Perigard Zalman was likely a brake on the ambitions of saKhan Brett Andrews, who was noted as being a fervent Crusader. After Zalman's death and Andrews becoming Khan, then the Vipers got to do things his way. Alas the Wars of Reaving didn't turn out too well for the Vipers.

Chris W

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Re: Steel Viper Khans in the Great Refusal
« Reply #5 on: 07 April 2018, 11:50:19 »
I'm sorry I took my time to read this. Thank you both. I believe ya'll have answered all my questions on this subject.

 

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