Intercept H P G transmissions???

[Precentor Scorpio]

Just trying to figure how Wolfnet was so good. Is it possible to intercept Hpg transmissions?  Yes I know too much data is gathered this way  but it could be the easiest explanation.  So is it possible to intercept H P G transmissions and how do you this?
Thank you

[Tai Dai Cultist]

Apparently all it takes to receive a HPG transmission is a conventional radio.  Decrypting ComStar's encryption protocols however may be more challenging than most can manage.  Maybe not for Wolfnet.

[glitterboy2098]

as i understand it, the HPG basically jumps a signal between stars.. while the HPG is needed on the sending end, on the receiving end it is just radio signals radiating out from the point of arrival. so i suspect you can record those transmissions.

but i also suspect that Comstar encrypted their signals so that people listening in can't easily understand the contents.. and that most of the traffic from the successor states regarding governmental or military matters was also encrypted before it was even handed over to comstar in the first place.

[DOC_Agren]

I often wonder if Wolf's Intel People had access to "standard" Comstar encryption key/backdoor, which might have been leftover from Star League and well might have been in Clan Goliath Scorpion large collection of Star League knowledge.

[abou]

It's hard to say what ComStar did in terms of updating the HPG network. It seems that after a generation or two of ComStar techs, the pseudo-religious aspect took over and everything was more of a patchwork. A long-standing backdoor might still have been present. It was like updating a computer program, but instead of rewriting the code to make it more efficient, the developers just piled on more code on top of code.

Kind of like Adobe Photoshop the last time I used it. ;)

Regardless, that provides for some interesting story potential. In fact, the only impetus to actually make some changes would have been after the schism in 3052.

[Starfox1701]

We know the Dragoons know how to use HPGs. We see that in wolves on the border

[Daryk]

True, but the encryption is the issue, not the transmission technology.

[trboturtle]

But how often would Comstar change encryption keys? 2000 HPG stations, it would take a lot of time to distribute the new encryption keys --- you wouldn't transmit them, so it would have to be hand delivered.

Craig

[glitterboy2098]

actually, the dragoons might not even need the key itself.. just a copy of the software Comstar uses to generate it. after all, it would be much easier to reset the keys than to rework the entire encryption system to a new set up. so if wolfnet had a copy of the old SLDF encryption systems, they could more easily work out the key being used. they'd know what to look for, effectively.

and presumably the successor state encoding and encryption systems would be vulnerable to them as well. because they'd be not only simpler due to the hardware decline, but the dragoon's would have had access to samples of them when they served with each successor state.

[mbear]

But how often would Comstar change encryption keys? 2000 HPG stations, it would take a lot of time to distribute the new encryption keys --- you wouldn't transmit them, so it would have to be hand delivered.

Craig

That may not have been as difficult as you think though. ComStar had a lot of JumpShips that would do mail calls to planets without an HPG. Heck they could've diverted JumpShips from the Explorer Corps if they needed to.

[Daryk]

Individual modern nations handle distribution of encryption keys to more units than that on a monthly basis.  It's hard, but not that hard.

[Frabby]

I'm not so sure if ComStar is the party to handle encryption.
The service ComStar provides is "jumping" the transmitter signal from a HPG to its destination - usually another HPG, but potentially any place anywhere where they expect a receiver to be nearby.
(HPGs do have "receiver" rooms but their purpose is to dampen the signal so that it doesn't cause damage via its emergence wave and cannot be listened to; also it is possible, but wasn't spelled out anywhere afaik, that some sort of receiver antenna is required within a gravity well.)

In any case, that says little about the message itself. You can apparently deliver a message to a ComStar temple in a myriad of ways, even show up personally to record a message or have it written down by Acolytes. Presumably, ComStar dicated messages to be delivered open and unencrypted prior to the 3050s simply because they could, and it helped ROM stay on top of what was going on. Mystic mumbo-jumbo was used to explain the requirement.
There was no need nor even a desire for encryption, as all message traffic was handled within ComStar.
This is the timeframe where WolfNet was most successful.

After the schism and as HPG technology proliferated to other factions, it is reasonable to assume that you could deliver data storage devices that held encrypted data, and have these transmitted as-is. The trust in ComStar was largely gone, and most nations were already using alternate channels for top-secret data, and had been doing that since before the 4th SW. But like in the real world, if secure channels are too cumbersome to use some people will revert to the internet...

Another thing is that I've long suspected Wolf's Dragoons have been using at least one Bug-Eye surveillance ship. I seem to recall a single one was even mentioned somewhere, but I can't find the reference.

[pheonixstorm]

Another thing to point out on encryption, key generation could be entirely automated. Send a new seed out to each station via broadcast and let the software handle the rest. As long as they all use the same software you don't need to hand deliver anything. As long as you have the proper seed each station can generate the same key. You could even generate the keys in advance and deliver them once a year if you were secure in the knowledge that no one could figure out what was what.

If this type of system was setup by the SLDF and continued seeing use by Comstar it would be very easy to know whatever Comstar was sharing between ROM agents. Encryption used by other houses would be less advanced and easier to crack. Not to mention that with Wolfnet they could place agents on major worlds to pick up intelligence the old fashioned way as well.

[Precentor Scorpio]

Thank you. 

Obtaining the information is one part.  Deciphering and analyzing the information is the second part but that could be another topic.

[snewsom2997]

Would it be possible that Wolfnet had all the Star League Backdoor Codes,they would've had all that stuff, when they left on the Exodus.

[ActionButler]

Would it be possible that Wolfnet had all the Star League Backdoor Codes,they would've had all that stuff, when they left on the Exodus.

I don't think that would be outside of the realm of possibility.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

Another thing to point out on encryption, key generation could be entirely automated. Send a new seed out to each station via broadcast and let the software handle the rest. As long as they all use the same software you don't need to hand deliver anything. As long as you have the proper seed each station can generate the same key. You could even generate the keys in advance and deliver them once a year if you were secure in the knowledge that no one could figure out what was what.

If this type of system was setup by the SLDF and continued seeing use by Comstar it would be very easy to know whatever Comstar was sharing between ROM agents. Encryption used by other houses would be less advanced and easier to crack. Not to mention that with Wolfnet they could place agents on major worlds to pick up intelligence the old fashioned way as well.

There's also tricks you can do with encryption.  Like having a new key be one way compatible with the old key.  Useful for those times when a particular HPG is behind or sloppy with their COMSEC practices... lets you hear their panicky "Wait, what code should we be on again!?!?" transmissions.

[Kit deSummersville]

Individual modern nations handle distribution of encryption keys to more units than that on a monthly basis.  It's hard, but not that hard.

Luckily for them it doesn't take months to traverse the realm.

[Daryk]

I take it you've never worked with a COMSEC shop.  There are several ways around travel time.

[skiltao]

ComStar had a lot of JumpShips that would do mail calls to planets without an HPG. Heck they could've diverted JumpShips from the Explorer Corps if they needed to.

I don't know that it's "a lot." Less than sixty, for sure, with six months between visits. If ComStar were to send new encryption codes by hand, that would mean an Adept is present on half or more of these independent freighters; which could be the case, but the message from Wyatt to Pacifica in the Warrior Trilogy didn't give me that impression.

Another thing is that I've long suspected Wolf's Dragoons have been using at least one Bug-Eye surveillance ship. I seem to recall a single one was even mentioned somewhere, but I can't find the reference.

I made that suggestion years ago. (I doubt I'm the first to do so, but it's the only time I can recall seeing it in print.) If there is a BattleTech publication talking about a Dragoon Bug Eye, it's got to be a Jihad or BattleCorp thing.

[Frabby]

I made that suggestion years ago. (I doubt I'm the first to do so, but it's the only time I can recall seeing it in print.) If there is a BattleTech publication talking about a Dragoon Bug Eye, it's got to be a Jihad or BattleCorp thing.

It's a plausible explanation in any case.
But it seems I misremembered about a Dragoon Bug-Eye appearing in print. Turns out the reference I dimly remembered was in Interstellar Expeditions, p. 31, where IE (and not the Dragoons) lament the loss of their only Bug-Eye in the 3090s.

There is of course the question where they got it from in the first place. But ComStar (who took over the Star League's secret Ross and Luyten fleet bases, at least one of which was dedicated to the spyship fleet) is far more likely than the Dragoons.

[glitterboy2098]

It's a plausible explanation in any case.
But it seems I misremembered about a Dragoon Bug-Eye appearing in print. Turns out the reference I dimly remembered was in Interstellar Expeditions, p. 31, where IE (and not the Dragoons) lament the loss of their only Bug-Eye in the 3090s.

There is of course the question where they got it from in the first place. But ComStar (who took over the Star League's secret Ross and Luyten fleet bases, at least one of which was dedicated to the spyship fleet) is far more likely than the Dragoons.

IIRC  didn't Interstellar Expeditions (a totally awesome Babylon 5 reference) take over the old Comstar Explorer Corps resources? i know that for awhile after the Jihad they were working together.

[Von Jankmon]

One Bug Eye would not be enough, and for general signals intercept would not even be necessary.

I don't buy the ComStar back door either, as assuming there was one and the firmware was never changed, most signals are multiple encrypted.  message for Comstar are encrypted prior to package and then are encrypted again,  as all messages are batched it makes sense that any Comstar data traffic is separately encrypted also as data is confidential within Comstar itself.

Wolfnet's success is based around the fact that it is made up of loyal personnel, who have no history outside the cover story the Dragoons give them.  Most agencies have to deal with known loyalists who can thus be tracked by multiple factions,  the entirity of Wolfs Dragoons come from nowhere and yet have a very solid and secret cohesion.  Hence why nobody cottoned on that Snords Irregulars are detached Wolf's Dragoons.  The integration and seperation are both seamless and indetectable to anyone who is not on the inside, and good luck getting in on the inside of the Dragoons.

In short Wolfnet have a critical advantage in Humint, plus superior standard Signalsint advantages because they have access to Star League/Clan level EW and intelligence technology.  They no more need a unique magical tech bypass than Mossad does to get on by.  They both win by having high end equipment plus a vast well connected diaspora to draw operatives with inherently sound cover stories from.

[idea weenie]

(This is in addition to encrypting each message individually, plus the customer making the message encrypted to begin with)

One stunt I could see is each station having its own encryption key, and the decryption keys for the stations within its 50-ly range.

So station #1 encrypts and sends a message to station #2.  Station #2 decrypts the message, encrypts it with its own key, and passes it on to station #3.  Station #3 decrypts the message, encrypts it with its own key, and sends it on.  The only thing sent in the clear is which station is the sender (plus date/time), so any HPG station that receives the message can attempt to decrypt the message if they have the key for the sending station.  Inside the overall transmission would be a checksum value to make sure the receiver decrypted it successfully.  If the receiver didn't decrypt it successfully, the message is sent to Terra for the adepts on Terra to decrypt the message and figure out who it is supposed to go to.

This way, even if someone gets the encryption keys for a station, they don't get the full HPG network access, they just get the data for that station and the stations within 50 light-years.  The others are still encrypted.  You could even have multiple encryption methods being used, so you can't just perform a brute force crack on other messages.

The encryption component itself would be kept very secure (likely with a 24-hr button so if nobody punches in the button code every 24 hours, it self-destructs).  If the box is destroyed, the station sends a message in the clear so that Terra knows it needs a new encryption component (and likely a new Precentor since it happened on his/her watch).

[PreacherPatriot1776]

They use Morse code to send and receive the messages because it's LosTech. :)

[ANS Kamas P81]

One point in Wolfnet's favor is that Comstar is a religious organization for almost all of the same time the Wolves are masquerading as mercenaries.  No religious organization changes its holy texts - and with the reverence for the Blessed Blake, whatever encryption sequences and codes his Ministry of Communications were using under the old Star League are, very likely, still in use over the centuries.  All Wolfnet had to do was bug the Scorpions* for some old keys, and suddenly they're reading everyone's mail.

It also fits why Wolfnet lost its effectiveness after the Clan war and wasn't the prime OOC source for information after around '55 or so.  Remember when all the various scenario books and other things had all the Wolfnet data with them, and then afterwards it was mostly Comstar's POV?  The secularization brought about a "deBlakeification" and an acceptance of not constantly reusing the same holy-writ passages, and a switch to new coding systems.

Up till then, it was like the Japanese using JN-25 in WWII constantly.  Maybe some minor variations, but they were always cracked quickly since they kept using the basic structure.  After Focht took over, Comstar switches its systems completely.  I grant it's just speculative, and probably hasn't ever been seriously thought about or worked out by the devs one way or another, but it makes some sense from an IC perspective at least.

*As there were a few Scorpions scattered among the Dragoons, and they had trained up the five regiment unit on Star League protocols and tactics, COMSEC would be one of those things.  Hell, maybe they even had some Scorpion who was an old-school Star League radio fanboy who was integral to it all.

[pheonixstorm]

It also doesn't help that many of the Wolfnet personnel also probably retired or killed off by then. The Dragoon civil war might have also played a large role as well.

[Von Jankmon]

Wolfnet dying off is not a problem, it passes to the younger generation.  Same effort but with in house mentoring.

Wolfnet lost its main advantage due to tech proliferation.  Star League tech eas always available, it was just poorly distributed.  The great houses had Star league intelligence technology for key roles and key operatives, but they were big and as data moved further from house capitals it travelled on less secure and advanced channels.  Wolfnet however could sift info out in the boondocks from primitive security tech with their own rigs with technology based on the clan watch.

Helm technology didint proliferate overnight and until after the clan invasion Comstar was playing whack-a-mole with it and largely kept the tech out of great house hands.  GDL stll had it, but those the GDL gave it to ended up with strange accidents.  The GDL gave the tech to the NAIS in person, and Kurita got a copy directly from Duke Ricol, though late and by asking.
I don't know how the CapCon got the Helm core relatively late, and IIRC the League got Star League technology from a a comparable list that the Wobbies had, not a copy of the Helm core.

Everything moved so slow that even after Helm there was a low tech military communications infrastructure that took a long time to replace and Wolfnet had an extended window to operate. Primacy until 3055 sounds about right, and if any single event signalled the end of the hegemony period, Elson's Challenge is it.  Because that marked the time when Dragoons could no longer entirely trust themselves, and lost their main Humint advantage.

[skiltao]

It also fits why Wolfnet lost its effectiveness after the Clan war and wasn't the prime OOC source for information after around '55 or so. 

Wolfnet didn't become the prime OOC source until 3058.

I don't know how the CapCon got the Helm core relatively late, and IIRC the League got Star League technology from a a comparable list that the Wobbies had, not a copy of the Helm core.

Proliferation is discussed near the back of the 20 Year Update and near the front of TR:3050. The TRO says the CapCon got their technology in trade from the Free Worlds in 3046, and the League got theirs from the Combine about four years earlier.

a vast well connected diaspora to draw operatives with inherently sound cover stories from.

Huh? Snord was a singular case. What diaspora, and how does being a Dragoon with no history create a non-Dragoon cover story, let alone an inviolate one?

[Von Jankmon]

Huh? Snord was a singular case. What diaspora, and how does being a Dragoon with no history create a non-Dragoon cover story, let alone an inviolate one?

Dragoon operatives could turn up from anywhere, preferably a boondocks world within the space nation being targeted.  what becomes relevant is the operatives skillset not checking out an uncheckable backstory.  Build some credibility then move progressively closer to the capital.  Sleeper agent 101.